(edited by Alad QB.8904)
And the blind bulldozer runs again
Patch Notes for 4/9/2013
Norn characters were having trouble fitting through some doors in Lion’s Arch.
Norn character creation has been disabled.
All Norn player characters are now Human.
How does that stop the gold sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
(edited by Alad QB.8904)
I’m not here to think of solutions to exploits. And neither should you. Exploits are the result of bugs usually and the devs are the only ones who know exactly how a situation is being exploited. They should take care in closing just the exploit cases and not collapse the whole roof on everyone just to kill a bug in the house.
It still doesn’t change anything. Just closing the exploit should be possible. And again, stop assuming things, they didn’t say what the exploit was, and will not talk about. I don’t give a hoot about how someone is exploiting anything.
The issue here is that small guilds will lose yet another game feature.
lol, So instead of directly stopping bots, do something that affects the whole player base. Beautiful logic. Thumbtack meet sledgehammer.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
How does that stop the gold sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
How is it impossible for small guilds to get guild merits? you only need 5 people in your guild to unlock and complete Bounty, Trek, and Rush. They also added training missions to make it easy for you to obtain the required influence.
I have no clue if it is easier said than done, because I have no clue why they did it except the generic “It’s an exploit”. I can only discuss the facts I currently have, which are 1. Anet seen an exploit of some kind 2. To fix said exploit, anet made a sweeping change to the entire player base. If you think that is fair fix for an unknown exploit, then that’s ok. I don’t.
I like information, and since the exploit is now supposedly closed, I see no reason why they couldn’t release that information to help produce meaningful feedback from the forum or player population. Since they haven’t released that info, I go with what I have. Blindly following flawed logic isn’t in my wheelhouse.
when you have no info, going on the info you have is flawed logic
Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com
How does that stop the gold sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
How is it impossible for small guilds to get guild merits? you only need 5 people in your guild to unlock and complete Bounty, Trek, and Rush. They also added training missions to make it easy for you to obtain the required influence.
The cost in influence (and then guild merits too) of opening up those features which earn merits is simply prohibitive for small guilds. Plus we not even have 5 people there to kill one of those mobs.
when you have no info, going on the info you have is flawed logic
Except there is info, so I am not going off of zero info. As stated in my previous post. To produce a better discussion, more info would be nice, instead of blind supposition. For instance I could say this fix was instituted to stop people from creating small guilds, that is blind supposition. I do know that a fix that affected the entire playerbase was instituted, for an unknown to the general player base exploit. Those are the current facts.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
@Heijincks: A bug can be a design bug or miscalculation as well, not just a bug in implementation. If anything is not working as intended, it’s a bug. Please stop talking beside the topic of this thread.
Go troll on someone else, mate.
I have no clue if it is easier said than done, because I have no clue why they did it except the generic “It’s an exploit”. I can only discuss the facts I currently have, which are 1. Anet seen an exploit of some kind 2. To fix said exploit, anet made a sweeping change to the entire player base. If you think that is fair fix for an unknown exploit, then that’s ok. I don’t.
I like information, and since the exploit is now supposedly closed, I see no reason why they couldn’t release that information to help produce meaningful feedback from the forum or player population. Since they haven’t released that info, I go with what I have. Blindly following flawed logic isn’t in my wheelhouse.
It actually is easier said than done. How often do you see bots? Probably not very often, because they keep teleporting everywhere the moment you see them. They don’t get reported easily. How about gold sellers? Other than the fact they sell gold, it’s pretty hard to tell that they are one (especially if their name isn’t random like JJSKDF).
You’re right, Anet should clarify the issue, but since they didn’t, we can only guess. However, the pieces do fall into place though, and the chances that the exploit is related to gold selling is pretty good.
If you want to have a discussion about how to stop bots or gold sellers, I believe it’s been covered in plenty of threads. I can’t recall “disabling guild transports” ever being brought up in those discussions though, probably because it’s frakking ridiculous.
I have no clue if it is easier said than done, because I have no clue why they did it except the generic “It’s an exploit”. I can only discuss the facts I currently have, which are 1. Anet seen an exploit of some kind 2. To fix said exploit, anet made a sweeping change to the entire player base. If you think that is fair fix for an unknown exploit, then that’s ok. I don’t.
I like information, and since the exploit is now supposedly closed, I see no reason why they couldn’t release that information to help produce meaningful feedback from the forum or player population. Since they haven’t released that info, I go with what I have. Blindly following flawed logic isn’t in my wheelhouse.
It actually is easier said than done. How often do you see bots? Probably not very often, because they keep teleporting everywhere the moment you see them. They don’t get reported easily. How about gold sellers? Other than the fact they sell gold, it’s pretty hard to tell that they are one (especially if their name isn’t random like JJSKDF).
You’re right, Anet should clarify the issue, but since they didn’t, we can only guess. However, the pieces do fall into place though, and the chances that the exploit is related to gold selling is pretty good.
If you want to have a discussion about how to stop bots or gold sellers, I believe it’s been covered in plenty of threads. I can’t recall “disabling guild transports” ever being brought up in those discussions though, probably because it’s frakking ridiculous.
We don’t know the nature of this exploit, but whatever it is it was apparently urgent enough to warrant an emergency patch. If we knew what the exploit was then we might be able to say “it’s ridiculous”.
Agree, my point exactly.
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
Oh you can, but why in the world would you? Why in the world would they join as well since it blows their cover?
Hmm, do you think those botters wouldn’t have regular account that they actually play on?
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
Oh you can, but why in the world would you? Why in the world would they join as well since it blows their cover?
Not all bots are faceless kids in a sweatshop, some are players who run botting software sometimes, just not all the time. And it won’t stop bots from running the game normally, getting guild merits, then going back to botting.
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
Oh you can, but why in the world would you? Why in the world would they join as well since it blows their cover?
Hmm, do you think those botters wouldn’t have regular account that they actually play on?
Sure, but does that blow the cover on their undercover botting/gold selling? No.
And have you considered that they would make their own guild just for the gold selling activity, since bank gold transaction between guild members are so wildly different and most of the time in large amounts you can’t really tell if it’s regular players or gold selling. And once a bot has been found, my guess would be that Anet wouldn’t waste time checking guild activity on that account and go straight to the ban hammer.
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
Oh you can, but why in the world would you? Why in the world would they join as well since it blows their cover?
Hmm, do you think those botters wouldn’t have regular account that they actually play on?
Sure, but does that blow the cover on their undercover botting/gold selling? No.
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
Oh you can, but why in the world would you? Why in the world would they join as well since it blows their cover?
Not all bots are faceless kids in a sweatshop, some are players who run botting software sometimes, just not all the time. And it won’t stop bots from running the game normally, getting guild merits, then going back to botting.
Yes, but that’s rather beside the point. Botters won’t make their main and the bot on the same account for the risk of getting banned. And guild merits are account bound.
I’m no longer sure what you are saying anymore.
Your first supposition was that bots couldn’t get guild merits, it was stated that they could.
Your next supposition is that bots will be banned if they are in guilds? We know that they are in fact in guilds, and that some are in regular guilds, and that they have not all been banned.
Please state clearly what you are trying to say.
You didn’t say bots were able to get guild merits, I did. And they can.
I stated that bots are in regular guilds, and that entire teams of bots are in guilds.
A bot’s main account can be in a regular guild, especially the large ones, simply because some guilds don’t care, they just want the rep. And a bot’s main account could be in a Bot guild.
We know that bot’s don’t get automatically reported just by being in a guild, therefor they can, and do acquire guild merits.
Since they can and do have the ability to acquire guild merits, they can and do have the ability to summon a guild transports and do whatever it is they want to do with them.
Now which of these points are you trying to refute?
Bot players can disable their software and run guild missions.
Why do you say that they can not?
I see a logical disconnect here. What exactly are you trying to get at? As long as the bot and the main account of the bot remain mutually exclusive, the main account will not be detected as a bot’s main account.
Sure, I suppose that bots could make a guild for the sole purpose of gold selling. However, that will just be a guild of bots. They wouldn’t invite a regular player into a guild like that because again: blown cover. It is also true the other way around: a bot or gold seller wouldn’t do his business in a public guild either because their covers will be blown.
So your point is moot.
I’ll just tell you the method outright, although I’m not a botter myself.
At first there wasn’t so much of a gold selling prevention, gold sellers could send their gold pretty much to anyone without being banned. After report and the gold sending detection were built in, guild bank transaction became popular among gold sellers, they would just invite their customers into their guild and let them take a certain amount of gold that they put into the guild bank. During that time players could transfer servers daily and free, so guild influence in different server wasn’t much of a problem.
Then it came the paid-to-transfer period. Gold sellers found it to be troublesome that customers are harder to reach now. Then someone found that guild transport solves the problem. As long as they call out vault transport in an instance which the gold sellers created, the gold sellers’ bank will be transported, then customers would have no problem taking the gold from there.
Now, Anet has banned the vault transport from instances, which effectively stop one method of gold transfering. Again, I’m not a botter nor a gold seller, but I hope this information helps.
(edited by Recycle.5493)
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
Oh you can, but why in the world would you? Why in the world would they join as well since it blows their cover?
Hmm, do you think those botters wouldn’t have regular account that they actually play on?
Sure, but does that blow the cover on their undercover botting/gold selling? No.
How does that stop the guild sellers? The vault transports are just more difficult to get now for large guilds, and impossible to get for small ones.
Bots can’t get merits, so they’re automatically blocked from exploiting the vault transport. It might not have been the greatest solution, but I can’t think of a better one. Can you?
Are you saying I can’t let bots join my guild which may or may not have the vault transport?
Oh you can, but why in the world would you? Why in the world would they join as well since it blows their cover?
Not all bots are faceless kids in a sweatshop, some are players who run botting software sometimes, just not all the time. And it won’t stop bots from running the game normally, getting guild merits, then going back to botting.
Yes, but that’s rather beside the point. Botters won’t make their main and the bot on the same account for the risk of getting banned. And guild merits are account bound.
I’m no longer sure what you are saying anymore.
Your first supposition was that bots couldn’t get guild merits, it was stated that they could.
Your next supposition is that bots will be banned if they are in guilds? We know that they are in fact in guilds, and that some are in regular guilds, and that they have not all been banned.
Please state clearly what you are trying to say.
I think I am quite clear, just that you’re not reading what I am saying. First of all, where have I said that bots are able to get guild merits?.
They cannot. Bots can’t run guild missions.
Next, where have I said bots will be banned if they are in guilds?
I also never said bots are in regular guilds either. I did however say that a botter’s main account can be in a regular guild, but as long as they keep their botting accounts and their main account mutually exclusive, the main account cannot be determined as a bot owner.
They cannot. Bots can’t run guild missions
You did indeed say they could not. I do not feel I can have a logical discussion about this with you. You flip flop too much.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
Someone said the affects the whole player base. Well, no not really. It affects smaller guilds mostly, if they in fact used that one single feature. I’m in a guild of 80 people and never used that feature once. I don’t even think we bothered unlocking it.
It’s not really all that useful. What it means for most people is that they have to think about what they’re going to take with them before they go into a dungeon. You know, bring the potions and food you’ll need with you up front.
Annoying, maybe. Gamebreaking…I think most people played the game without guild transport to begin with.
Someone said the affects the whole player base. Well, no not really. It affects smaller guilds mostly, if they in fact used that one single feature. I’m in a guild of 80 people and never used that feature once. I don’t even think we bothered unlocking it.
It’s not really all that useful. What it means for most people is that they have to think about what they’re going to take with them before they go into a dungeon. You know, bring the potions and food you’ll need with you up front.
Annoying, maybe. Gamebreaking…I think most people played the game without guild transport to begin with.
Whether you deem it worthless or not, the fact remains, Anet removed something earned legitimately by honest players, in a futile attempt to curb dishonest players.
That is the point. I had earned the upgrade, playing by their rules, and they changed them. I could understand removing the upgrade to stop a serious exploit, but fail to see the logic in leaving the upgrade in at a much much higher cost. The “exploit” remains, but out of the reach of small guilds.. some of whom had already earned it.
And so.. if it is fine for large guilds to still have it.. why is it not fine for mine to have been grandfathered?
Implementation of this non-fix defies logic.
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Someone said the affects the whole player base. Well, no not really. It affects smaller guilds mostly, if they in fact used that one single feature. I’m in a guild of 80 people and never used that feature once. I don’t even think we bothered unlocking it.
It’s not really all that useful. What it means for most people is that they have to think about what they’re going to take with them before they go into a dungeon. You know, bring the potions and food you’ll need with you up front.
Annoying, maybe. Gamebreaking…I think most people played the game without guild transport to begin with.
Whether you deem it worthless or not, the fact remains, Anet removed something earned legitimately by honest players, in a futile attempt to curb dishonest players.
That is the point. I had earned the upgrade, playing by their rules, and they changed them. I could understand removing the upgrade to stop a serious exploit, but fail to see the logic in leaving the upgrade in at a much much higher cost. The “exploit” remains, but out of the reach of small guilds.. some of whom had already earned it.
And so.. if it is fine for large guilds to still have it.. why is it not fine for mine to have been grandfathered?
Implementation of this non-fix defies logic.
I agree that honest players are being punished because of dishonest players. I also believe this happens all the time.
In Guild Wars 1, Anet added Skeletons of Dhuum to the Underworld to prevent speed clearing and solo farming. I never did either, so I was punished by them making the instance harder for me. This is life in MMOs.
Exploits need to be removed in a timely manner. Unfortunately that often means the solution is the fastest they can come up with.
Without knowing the exploit, it’s impossible to say how well they did.
I agree that it sucks for those people who did use it. I just think it’s a relatively small percentage of the community as a whole. Which might be why they decided to do it this way.
Going back to the OP’s problem, I have a solution: Join a bigger guild. That way, you won’t have to worry about being in a small guild.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Well idk how “small” your guild is but mine has been doing t1 bounties with 4-5 people since they started. No we don’t win every time. Each week we que up 2-4 t1 bounties and run them till we win. With Dulfy guide the hard part is usually finding them. With only 4-5 they dont upscale much so as long as your guild plays smart and takes a little time to learn the paths and mob strats T1 bounties are not impossible. Only people this change should hurt are those that use an alt guild for extra storage.
Sure, we’ll see in about a year (or two) when my guild will have gathered enough influence to open up guild bounties.
Sure, we’ll see in about a year (or two) when my guild will have gathered enough influence to open up guild bounties.
Here’s an idea, stop being anti-social and join a bigger guild, not much difference other than you not being in direct control, aside from ranking up and maybe becoming an officer.
Honestly, I’ll never understand why people play an MMO if they don’t intend to be social, yeah I understand having your own guild…but really, gotta be lonely doing that kitten.