Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer: This is just my personal theory based purely on observation of Anet’s behavior through 7 years of GW1 and 5 yrs of GW2 development. I have no special insider information about Anet and as such this theory probably constitutes speculation. Please note, (although I don’t like the new gier tier) this is not a complaint thread about ascended gear so pls don’t make it one. I am also not commenting as to whether it is right or wrong for Anet to ‘go back’ on the manifesto, but rather only trying to provide what might be a plausible explanation.

In a nutshell, my theory on why GW2 deviates from the core values of the original GW (even after the PR manifesto) is because Anet is essentially not the same team as it was when GW was first created. Many who held prominent roles in building the original GW such as founders Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain, and team lead James Phinney are gone. Some of those members were the ones who championed GW’s values such as equitable playing field, horizontal progression, and anti-grind philosophy. Going from GW1 to GW2, Anet had to expand their team exponentially bringing in many new members with diverse mmo gaming values (coming from different backgrounds and such… many members probably never did play GW1 and/or had experience in other mmos who feature vertical progression much more prominently). I seem to remember one video of Colin (I may be wrong) saying how it feels strange that he can walk by employees in the hallway and have absolutely no idea who they are. This shows that Anet as an organization is quite horizontal in structure where members are given autonomy for the content they create. Many of these new members now hold influential roles in GW2 development and as such, the portions of the game they produce may not have been built with the original GW1 core values in mind. They’ve also hired some staff that (in my opinion) may have had a ‘not so nice’ influence on the game to fill (in my opinion) wholly unnecessary roles. Specifically I am referring to the ex-Nexon cash shop master and a chief economist. I honestly think the community would be better served if they used those salaries to hire some more skill balancers (2 ppl in that department =x).

I guess I’m not too shocked by the vertical progression b/c from the employees leaving (on amicable terms i might add), and the influx of many new staff, to the introduction of the gems concept, I already started to look at Anet as another developer altogether who only shares the same name as their ‘predecessor’. Their focus on statistics instead of player feedback and the monetization of the game through cash shop, made it clear that they were moving in a different direction than the “we make games for the players, they are our strongest inspiration and driving force” like they used to proclaim. I don’t blame them at all because after all they are a business. The only reason they made the manifesto was because they had to appease their most-likely initial playerbase (ex-GW1) players in order to generate hype and solidify initial cash flow (to cover 5 yrs of development costs and appease NCsoft). Again just a PR move based on a sound business plan. They probably never intended to use the manifesto as their ‘constitution’ in the first place.

SUMMATION: Arenanet has changed the direction of GW2 away from the manifesto simply because the manifesto is based on core values of the previous Anet team and does not really reflect the values of the current Anet. Again, this is simply my theory based on some things I’ve noticed.

I disagree with you simply because the manifesto video is not that old and has people of the current team speaking in it.

I do see your point that there are many new people there and that may have to do with some of the changes but this manifesto is not from the old guys you mention in your post.

All well and dandy but dont sell your product under those conditions. Sell it under the new and improved banner not the predecessor.
Change the name then and differentiate it from the first. If you promote it one way stay true otherwise you look hypocritical to your audience.

I agree with both of you. Like i stated, GW1 vets and manifesto appreciators were basically guaranteed cash flow. Manifesto… they made it (new ppl in the vid included) for financial security, fixed cash flows. Again, my intent was not to point out whether this was just or not… just trying to explain what i feel went down.

If it is true that content is developed independently and not properly reviewed for consistency to core elements of the game, then… well have fun in the future!

Personally, I think this theory has been demonstrated incorrect by recent events.

Put simply, I don’t feel that they violated the manifesto.

Play some WoW. No seriously, I’ll wait.

……
……
……

Okay, now come back here and tell me that the difference isn’t night and day.

In GW2, I don’t have to do dailies every day with a forest green bar that barely moves when I’m finished just to see the content I want to see. I don’t have to wait a week to see the best encounters in the game. I don’t have to pay 15 dollars a month to attempt to stay relevant while juggling a fledgling career and the needs of my relationship.

Gw2 is the MMO I wanted, the MMO that rewards me for playing, and doesn’t punish me for not playing. It’s not perfect, it has glaring issues on a list a mile long.

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

havellian.4073:

SUMMATION: Arenanet has changed the direction of GW2 away from the manifesto simply because the manifesto is based on core values of the previous Anet team and does not really reflect the values of the current Anet. Again, this is simply my theory based on some things I’ve noticed.

I think you may be right but like another poster said, the Manifesto video and press releases are not that old.

If they were planning to change their position on “gear stat” progression, why not say that prior to launch or the pre-order date? I would not have bought the game if they said they were moving more towards the WOW model for character progression.

But as it stands now, they do this 3 months after a successful financial launch. If they knew they were heading this direction before release, that is at the least, unethical.

However, for me, it does not matter at this point. I have tried to share my concerns repeatedly and even pointed out the impact this change may have on their brand. I am just about spent on suggestions, concerns. I have not played since Sunday and may not log on for a long time, if at all. I definitely am not spending anymore money on the cash shop or expansions.

I keep thinking about Linsey Murdock’s statement that this was done for the “most dedicated players.” That made me feel like my time and money was not valued as a customer. I never stay in a place that I am not wanted.

I will probably check the forums to see if they return to their original vision. If not, its okay. I really loved and financially supported this game for 3 months. I think they have introduced us to some new and interesting ways to play a MMO. Also, the Devs, in my opinion, are top quality. I know there are bugs but you can see their expertise in many of the design elements.

you also have to have watched the arc of development, the many announcements by Eric Fannum, and when the departures of founding members occurred.

Simply, the WoW-ification of the gw franchise started well before this final nail was pulled from the vampire’s coffin. The blood sucking stat grind has begun.

If these people are different then they either need to adhere to the manifesto or remove it from the website. In the current state of the game the manifesto is nothing but a lie that is falsely attracting new players.

Mackdose.6504:

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

No twisting invloved, some of us simply followed the Q&A sessions, interviews, blogs, etc and therefore don’t come from a position of ignorance, so we see the manifesto in the context of what they repeated time and time again.

For instance in their blog their lead dev wrote this:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony”, so bascially repeating the mistake other games made years ago and have since worked out is a dumb idea, ‘agony’ is just ‘radiance’ from LOTRO all over again.

Mackdose.6504:

Put simply, I don’t feel that they violated the manifesto.

Play some WoW. No seriously, I’ll wait.

……
……
……

Okay, now come back here and tell me that the difference isn’t night and day.

In GW2, I don’t have to do dailies every day with a forest green bar that barely moves when I’m finished just to see the content I want to see. I don’t have to wait a week to see the best encounters in the game. I don’t have to pay 15 dollars a month to attempt to stay relevant while juggling a fledgling career and the needs of my relationship.

Gw2 is the MMO I wanted, the MMO that rewards me for playing, and doesn’t punish me for not playing. It’s not perfect, it has glaring issues on a list a mile long.

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

I’m of the same opinion. People talk about being gated out of content by the new tier, when you don’t even need the existing exotic tier to complete it successfully. People talk as if the manifesto promised that the best gear would be obtained effortlessly (and not long after launch people were complaining about how much grind they had to do to get exotics).

You will not get stomped in WvW by the zerg of ascended-wearing players, or at least, not any more than you would be by a zerg of exotic-wearing players. sPvP balance is unchanged.

Mackdose.6504:

Put simply, I don’t feel that they violated the manifesto.

Play some WoW. No seriously, I’ll wait.

……
……
……

Okay, now come back here and tell me that the difference isn’t night and day.

In GW2, I don’t have to do dailies every day with a forest green bar that barely moves when I’m finished just to see the content I want to see. I don’t have to wait a week to see the best encounters in the game. I don’t have to pay 15 dollars a month to attempt to stay relevant while juggling a fledgling career and the needs of my relationship.

Gw2 is the MMO I wanted, the MMO that rewards me for playing, and doesn’t punish me for not playing. It’s not perfect, it has glaring issues on a list a mile long.

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

I’m sorry but too untrue for my taste. Many members are fuming in the forums over such changes. No matter how small the +stat, or gated community, it seems many players feel that this becoming a grind/treadmill. This is not an issue of one person jumps and everyone jumps. This is an issue of a mass agreeing on the relativity of the term ‘grind’, esp. in concern with Guild Wars 2 and Anet.

GW1 had a grind called Obsidian Armor. GW2 already has a grind called Legendary Weapons. The Legendary system in this game has failed in comparison to what it could have been. Ascended gear is doing the same.

Sylosi.6503:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony."

But that’s wrong. I’ve seen players go through all of the content in 80 rares to level 13. That doesn’t seem very gated to me.

I’m not going to miss a +5 here or +5 there, and it’s not mandatory to have those slim increases when practicing positioning for DPS up-time would make you more effective.

Sylosi.6503:

Mackdose.6504:

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

No twisting invloved, some of us simply followed the Q&A sessions, interviews, blogs, etc and therefore don’t come from a position of ignorance, so we see the manifesto in the context of what they repeated time and time again.

For instance in their blog their lead dev wrote this:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony”, so bascially repeating the mistake other games made years ago and have since worked out is a dumb idea, ‘agony’ is just ‘radiance’ from LOTRO all over again.

What’s tricky about this is we don’t know what the future holds. As of now, the agony mechanic only exists in deeper fractal levels. ArenaNet have also said that the stats of legendaries were going to be brought in line with ascended items. Players are afraid that we’ve taken the first steps down a slippery slope. We don’t yet know if that fear is justified or not.

I agree that there’s nothing mandatory about this. Player expectations are not mandates. I can run a dungeon in whites, if I want to. That might be a little extreme, but if you know the mechanics and teamwork required, you could probably do it (it would just take longer). Having said that, I would much rather run them in exotics. But plenty of people successfully complete dungeons in mixed everything from blues to yellows.

Sylosi.6503:

No twisting invloved, some of us simply followed the Q&A sessions, interviews, blogs, etc and therefore don’t come from a position of ignorance, so we see the manifesto in the context of what they repeated time and time again.

I just caught this. I’m not coming from a position of ignorance. I’ve been playing Guild Wars since it released 3 days before my birthday in 2005, followed development through Utopia, and then GW2.

Just because I don’t agree with the bandwagon doesn’t mean I’m coming from a place of ignorance. Since you wanted to bring up logical fallacies, how’s that slippery slope?

Mackdose.6504:

But that’s wrong. I’ve seen players go through all of the content in 80 rares to level 13. That doesn’t seem very gated to me.

I’m not going to miss a +5 here or +5 there, and it’s not mandatory to have those slim increases when practicing positioning for DPS up-time would make you more effective.

Fractals is a minor issue to me, the major issue is deviating from the manifesto in terms of gear grind for max stats which will make a difference in other areas of the game like WvW. When there are infused ascended pieces for all wearable gear and the difference to stats will be more like +100, which is significant.

Mackdose.6504:

Just because I don’t agree with the bandwagon doesn’t mean I’m coming from a place of ignorance. Since you wanted to bring up logical fallacies, how’s that slippery slope?

Doesn’t make you right either, the manifesto is 100% clear on this issue.

morrolan.9608:

Fractals is a minor issue to me, the major issue is deviating from the manifesto in terms of gear grind for max stats which will make a difference in other areas of the game like WvW. When there are infused ascended pieces for all wearable gear and the difference to stats will be more like +100, which is significant.

Right, but if the roll out is so long to the point where everyone realistically has a chance to acquire the gear, what’s the issue?

Don’t bring “gear grind for max stats” like it’s a mandatory requirement to participate, because it isn’t. Because of that fact, they haven’t deviated from the manifesto.

Mackdose.6504:

morrolan.9608:

Fractals is a minor issue to me, the major issue is deviating from the manifesto in terms of gear grind for max stats which will make a difference in other areas of the game like WvW. When there are infused ascended pieces for all wearable gear and the difference to stats will be more like +100, which is significant.

Right, but if the roll out is so long to the point where everyone realistically has a chance to acquire the gear, what’s the issue?

Don’t bring “gear grind for max stats” like it’s a mandatory requirement to participate, because it isn’t. Because of that fact, they haven’t deviated from the manifesto.

They didn’t say: Max stat gear will be grindy as hell to get, but you don’t have to get it if you can tolerate being sub-par.

Because the target audience would have avoided the game like the plague.

They said: Max stat gear. No grind. Hard to obtain gear just looks different.

Nothing in the game is mandatory. I mean, they could make the quest to get out of the tutorial zone take 1000 hours of killing level 1 mobs, and I can defend that by telling you that you don’t have to do it. The truth is, your game experience is impacted if you refuse to participate.

Sylosi.6503:

Mackdose.6504:

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

No twisting invloved, some of us simply followed the Q&A sessions, interviews, blogs, etc and therefore don’t come from a position of ignorance, so we see the manifesto in the context of what they repeated time and time again.

For instance in their blog their lead dev wrote this:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony”, so bascially repeating the mistake other games made years ago and have since worked out is a dumb idea, ‘agony’ is just ‘radiance’ from LOTRO all over again.

Quoted for truth.

At least with “spectral agony” in Prophecies, it was simple enough to run to the seer and infuse your armor. It was even part of the story.

Mackdose.6504:

Right, but if the roll out is so long to the point where everyone realistically has a chance to acquire the gear, what’s the issue?

What about people who start after the roll out.
And I’m not sure arguing semantics about the speed of the treadmill really helps your argument.

Rejam.3946:

What about people who start after the roll out.
And I’m not sure arguing semantics about the speed of the treadmill really helps your argument.

And ArenaNet are going to be introducing other methods of acquiring this gear with future patches, so those who start later may in fact find it easier to obtain than it is now.

Anet said "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. "

Call me crazy but I believe them. They found there was too big of progression gap between exotics and legendaries. They are trying to bridge the gap and I’m sure if they could turn back time they would have launched without that gap and no one would be freaking out.

So until they develop a pattern of rolling out new gear levels on a regular basis I’ll take them at their word. So far they’ve created probably my favorite MMO to date and I’m more than happy to hang with GW2 to see where they take us.

Cheers all and for those in the US have a great Thanksgiving!

AB

Rejam.3946:

Mackdose.6504:

Right, but if the roll out is so long to the point where everyone realistically has a chance to acquire the gear, what’s the issue?

What about people who start after the roll out.
And I’m not sure arguing semantics about the speed of the treadmill really helps your argument.

My point is that there is no treadmill, relatively speaking.

Astraea.6075:

Rejam.3946:

What about people who start after the roll out.
And I’m not sure arguing semantics about the speed of the treadmill really helps your argument.

And ArenaNet are going to be introducing other methods of acquiring this gear with future patches, so those who start later may in fact find it easier to obtain than it is now.

And why was Ascended added again? Wasn’t it to fill the gap between exotics and legendary’s? But they will make them easier to get later? Why would they do this exactly?

OP … This was recorded about a 2 months before launch…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjxvj2I_CCA

Rejam.3946:

And why was Ascended added again? Wasn’t it to fill the gap between exotics and legendary’s? But they will make them easier to get later? Why would they do this exactly?

If there are multiple methods one can follow to obtain Ascended quality gear, then it is “easier” for someone to choose one that suits them and their style of play. This doesn’t necessarily mean that they are as easy to obtain as exotics are, but that as the Ascended tier is more fully introduced to the game, people aren’t stuck doing the same thing over and over to get them.

Rejam.3946:

Astraea.6075:

Rejam.3946:

What about people who start after the roll out.
And I’m not sure arguing semantics about the speed of the treadmill really helps your argument.

And ArenaNet are going to be introducing other methods of acquiring this gear with future patches, so those who start later may in fact find it easier to obtain than it is now.

And why was Ascended added again? Wasn’t it to fill the gap between exotics and legendary’s? But they will make them easier to get later? Why would they do this exactly?

Actually, this is key to the perpetual gear treadmill. Only the existing top tier (or maybe few tiers) is really hard to grind for because otherwise new players would be turned away when they realize they are years behind the curve. So at the appropriate time, Ascended gear will become more readily available… in order to allow a near tier to arrive!

Those who loved grinding in WoW see no violation of the manifesto because they didn’t really grasp it in the first place.

Fortuna.7259:

Actually, this is key to the perpetual gear treadmill. Only the existing top tier (or maybe few tiers) is really hard to grind for because otherwise new players would be turned away when they realize they are years behind the curve. So at the appropriate time, Ascended gear will become more readily available… in order to allow a near tier to arrive!

This type of treadmill is only relevant if new content is gated such that the most recent tiers of gear are required to complete it. I don’t see this happening with GW2, in fact, they made the new content available to players of all levels during the lost shores event.

I see the discussion has once again evolved to whether it was right to add gear progression. To be fair, some parts of the manifesto still stand (such as the Daniel Doicu part…but i dont think anyone cares about that xD)

The part in contention is most likely where Colin talks about grinding not being fun. I think however that it extends beyond just the manifesto as numerous Q&A postings have mentioned horizontal progression and “grinding for aesthetics and not power” and harped on the fundamental values of GW1. This quite honestly hasn’t been adhered to regardless of how large or minute the increase in stats are.

I tend to agree with the ppl who claim “gear grind was there from the get go, with exotics”. Seeing the arc of Gw2 development from its infancy makes it quite clear it was moving farther and farther from GW1’s horizontal level playing field model. Exotic (although comparatively pain free) is far from the real plateau that was going to droks and decking out in 1.5k armor. Many have just gotten used to the fact it exists.

For those who say ascended is not necessary b/c you don’t HAVE to have it to do (“most”) content. Honestly… you don’t have to grind WoW raids for gear because there is so much non-max content for you to do. I’ve also played Vindictus and DN from the blighted Nexon, and Aion and thoroughly enjoyed my time with the content when not grinding. You really don’t have to do anything, you really don’t have to fire up the game or even open your computer. Doesn’t mean the game doesn’t encourage or try to entice you to get the gear though (why else would Anet even introduce this tier to provide longevity for the game if it doesn’t work and ppl won’t be encouraged to grind for it?)

I hate putting this out there as it sounds so abrasive but honestly, to me manifesto (and related Q&A/blogs about GW1 core values) are like a mouse trap and we suckers fell for it (well honestly i didn’t need it, i felt obligated to get GW2 just cause GW1). Yes they said it, and yes they didn’t mean it, but I should’ve known better just by judging its development cycle….. (that god KITTEN-ED brand loyalty… curse you…)

Mackdose.6504:

Put simply, I don’t feel that they violated the manifesto.

Play some WoW. No seriously, I’ll wait.

……
……
……

Okay, now come back here and tell me that the difference isn’t night and day.

In GW2, I don’t have to do dailies every day with a forest green bar that barely moves when I’m finished just to see the content I want to see. I don’t have to wait a week to see the best encounters in the game. I don’t have to pay 15 dollars a month to attempt to stay relevant while juggling a fledgling career and the needs of my relationship.

Gw2 is the MMO I wanted, the MMO that rewards me for playing, and doesn’t punish me for not playing. It’s not perfect, it has glaring issues on a list a mile long.

The manifesto hasn’t been violated by Anet, it’s been violated by a player-base that twisted it into whatever they thought it should have meant, rather than what it actually meant.

Tell me…do you have already your infused backpack and rings?
I’ll tell you a secret: i m farming in pure korean style Fotm in order to help my guild….

After 10+ runs (10+ hours) i got 1 of the 16 vials i need.
Now i just miss 750 tier 6 mats……a player playing from the release gets something like 30-60.

And many other mats.

I played lineage 2 and i left mmorpg for the insane amount of grinding…

I think the grinding required for the few equipment we have NOW is insane…..at the same level of lineage2 (see WAY WORSE than wow).

Players haven’t the real idea of what it takes and WHY they are so important unless they start that journey……

When they do i have no doubt people stops even trying to say that they respected manifesto…

This is lineage 3 in terms of grinding….maybe worse in the near future.

Try to prove me wrong coming here playing 3 hours a day (even more) with your ascended equipment….

without spending hundreds dollars obvioulsy.

It will take months or even a year to an average player AS IT IS and it will probably destroy the whole economy…..

LordByron.8369:

I’ll tell you a secret: i m farming in pure korean style Fotm in order to help my guild….

Farming Gangnam Style? heyyyyyyyyyyyy….

…. sry i had to xDDDDD

Astraea.6075:

Fortuna.7259:

Actually, this is key to the perpetual gear treadmill. Only the existing top tier (or maybe few tiers) is really hard to grind for because otherwise new players would be turned away when they realize they are years behind the curve. So at the appropriate time, Ascended gear will become more readily available… in order to allow a near tier to arrive!

This type of treadmill is only relevant if new content is gated such that the most recent tiers of gear are required to complete it. I don’t see this happening with GW2, in fact, they made the new content available to players of all levels during the lost shores event.

I now know, that i will literally never manage to get an ascended set for more than one character (and i have more than one level 80 – now all the others besides my main has become just a deadweight). I will never be able to complete more than one set, with stats made for a different build (which will restrict me in future to only one type build). Due to lack of ascended eq and infusions, i will never be able to get into deeper levels of Fractals on those additional characters (and the mechanics encourage me to keep pushing up fractal level on my main instead of “losing time” on secondaries anyway). All of this is a direct consequence of existence of Ascended gear, the grind required for it, and the Agony mechanic that is mitigated by (again) infusions from Ascended gear. If it’s not a gear-based content gating, i don’t know what is.

Mackdose.6504:

Sylosi.6503:

“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

With ascended gear they have broken that statement in two ways, firstly it is no longer optional if you want to be “just as powerful” and secondly it is no longer optional if you wish to do all the content as they have introduced a gating mechanism with “agony."

But that’s wrong. I’ve seen players go through all of the content in 80 rares to level 13. That doesn’t seem very gated to me.

I’m not going to miss a +5 here or +5 there, and it’s not mandatory to have those slim increases when practicing positioning for DPS up-time would make you more effective.

Currently it is just on two slots and the infusions are low level, when they add more slots, add higher levels of infusions it will be fully gated.

Also how about the half you conviently ignored, people are no longer “just as powerful”, if you want to be “just as powerful” the gear treadmill / grind is no longer optional.

I am on the side of the camp that believes the Manifesto is still correct and that there is no gear treadmill in this game. You don’t even need Exotics to do everything. Are the new Ascended pieces more desirable than the exotics? Yes, they are. Do I need them to complete all the content in the game? No I don’t. Are the Legendary weapons more desirable than exotics? Yes, they are. Do I need them to complete everything in the game? No, unless you are talking about some achievement points and you do need them to complete that achievement.

Sorry guys, that’s not how gated content works. You have the option to choose between having them and not having them.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I am on the side of the camp that believes the Manifesto is still correct and that there is no gear treadmill in this game. You don’t even need Exotics to do everything. Are the new Ascended pieces more desirable than the exotics? Yes, they are. Do I need them to complete all the content in the game? No I don’t. Are the Legendary weapons more desirable than exotics? Yes, they are. Do I need them to complete everything in the game? No, unless you are talking about some achievement points and you do need them to complete that achievement.

Sorry guys, that’s not how gated content works. You have the option to choose between having them and not having them.

Gated content is requiring X item to do a certain portion of the content. This is exactly what high-level Fractals are all about. Ascended gear and infusions are required to complete them, so they are gated content. The Ascended items blog also left me with the impression that they want to continue this trend of required infusions into other/new types of end-game content.

And as others have mentioned, Ascended gear (or whatever gear is currently the best) is actually required to keep on an even playing field with others in WvW.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I am on the side of the camp that believes the Manifesto is still correct and that there is no gear treadmill in this game. You don’t even need Exotics to do everything. Are the new Ascended pieces more desirable than the exotics? Yes, they are. Do I need them to complete all the content in the game? No I don’t. Are the Legendary weapons more desirable than exotics? Yes, they are. Do I need them to complete everything in the game? No, unless you are talking about some achievement points and you do need them to complete that achievement.

Sorry guys, that’s not how gated content works. You have the option to choose between having them and not having them.

Tabby, this is not even a discussion about gated content really. Like I’ve stated, it really doesn’t matter how prominent or minute the stat increase is. The mere implementation of a single item with increased stat at the level cap already goes against their sentiments on gear plateau and not “grinding to be more powerful”. Again, in “grindy” games, you could do raids and be dead on the floor constantly but still have had “completed” the content if ppl are allowing you in their groups. No gear is really necessitated, but it’s made to feel like it by other players who act this way because the mechanics of the game encourage them to do so.