Guild Wars 2

ArenaNet, I find the announcements that cater to my desires quite exciting. Keep up the good work! =)

I have to agree. Most of these things were talked about a long time ago so they’re not really that exciting anymore. It’s like a trophy that lost it’s shine because it took so long to get sent over to the display case.

Also: ‘’Thanks for understanding’‘. I often don’t understand their decisions. :P

I certainly feel excited for most announcements. Seems apt.

It is exciting to some of us. They can keep saying it if they want. Today’s announcements of improvements maybe me jump for joy. Remember, they don’t have to change any of this and they are. Just because it was talked about or it was a community idea doesn’t change the fact that its coming to the game to improve our experiences. Its a Feature Pack, not a Content Pack. They are different.

Marketing needs a thesaurus. Plus they need to realize that as of late the player base has become somewhat sensitive to over promised, under delivered “features”.

Don’t poke the bears.

Behellagh.1468:

Marketing needs a thesaurus. Plus they need to realize that as of late the player base has become somewhat sensitive to over promised, under delivered “features”.

Don’t poke the bears.

This, out of 7 descriptions we have:

“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some exciting changes to the megaserver system!”

“We’re excited to announce some updates to commander tags!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely excited about the balance changes it will bring!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exciting additions to PvP!”

Most of these are things that players have known about for quite some time. It’s not exciting new things, it’s well-past the expiration date QoL changes that should have made it to the April Feature Pack.

Esplen.3940:

Behellagh.1468:

Marketing needs a thesaurus. Plus they need to realize that as of late the player base has become somewhat sensitive to over promised, under delivered “features”.

Don’t poke the bears.

This, out of 7 descriptions we have:

“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some exciting changes to the megaserver system!”

“We’re excited to announce some updates to commander tags!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely excited about the balance changes it will bring!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exciting additions to PvP!”

Most of these are things that players have known about for quite some time. It’s not exciting new things, it’s well-past the expiration date QoL changes that should have made it to the April Feature Pack.

You know all programming changes take time. They obviously couldn’t improve hte mega server, until they launched the mega server. Some things need to be fine tuned live.

Comments like should have been launched in the April feature pack are unrealistic at the very least.

…because there’s nothing too small for this community to complain about.

But how are we supposed to play the Anet announcement drinking game!?!

Vayne.8563:

Esplen.3940:

Behellagh.1468:

Marketing needs a thesaurus. Plus they need to realize that as of late the player base has become somewhat sensitive to over promised, under delivered “features”.

Don’t poke the bears.

This, out of 7 descriptions we have:

“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some exciting changes to the megaserver system!”

“We’re excited to announce some updates to commander tags!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely excited about the balance changes it will bring!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exciting additions to PvP!”

Most of these are things that players have known about for quite some time. It’s not exciting new things, it’s well-past the expiration date QoL changes that should have made it to the April Feature Pack.

You know all programming changes take time. They obviously couldn’t improve hte mega server, until they launched the mega server. Some things need to be fine tuned live.

Comments like should have been launched in the April feature pack are unrealistic at the very least.

I was being very broad in my post, which is why I used the word most.

Examples:
Account bound Commander tags/colors.
iWarden fix (this is IN the April patch notes but didn’t actually fix anything)
Illusionary Elasticity fix (see iWarden)
PvP-only Rewards

Additionally, for the rest of them, we knew about them beforehand. We knew Commander Tags were going to be getting new colors, we didn’t know they would become account bound.

We knew Megaservers would encapsulate all of the guilds into global guilds (didn’t know the name global guilds, but we sure as heck knew about the eventual merging of the upgrades).

We knew about these things, so they’re not that exciting to be talked about all over again.

Of course, exciting is an opinion, so I just feel like they shouldn’t be so careless with that word.

Esplen.3940:

Vayne.8563:

Esplen.3940:

Behellagh.1468:

Marketing needs a thesaurus. Plus they need to realize that as of late the player base has become somewhat sensitive to over promised, under delivered “features”.

Don’t poke the bears.

This, out of 7 descriptions we have:

“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some exciting changes to the megaserver system!”

“We’re excited to announce some updates to commander tags!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely excited about the balance changes it will bring!”

“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exciting additions to PvP!”

Most of these are things that players have known about for quite some time. It’s not exciting new things, it’s well-past the expiration date QoL changes that should have made it to the April Feature Pack.

You know all programming changes take time. They obviously couldn’t improve hte mega server, until they launched the mega server. Some things need to be fine tuned live.

Comments like should have been launched in the April feature pack are unrealistic at the very least.

I was being very broad in my post, which is why I used the word most.

Examples:
Account bound Commander tags/colors.
iWarden fix (this is IN the April patch notes but didn’t actually fix anything)
Illusionary Elasticity fix (see iWarden)
PvP-only Rewards

Additionally, for the rest of them, we knew about them beforehand. We knew Commander Tags were going to be getting new colors, we didn’t know they would become account bound.

We knew Megaservers would encapsulate all of the guilds into global guilds (didn’t know the name global guilds, but we sure as heck knew about the eventual merging of the upgrades).

We knew about these things, so they’re not that exciting to be talked about all over again.

Of course, exciting is an opinion, so I just feel like they shouldn’t be so careless with that word.

We knew. Listen to what you’re saying. We. Who is we? The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Yes, we are going to know stuff before most players. It doesn’t stop that stuff from being exciting to the huge percentage of players who don’t know what a CDI is.

You make it sound like the articles published on Anet’s site are just for us. I can’t imagine why you’d think that.

All of what “we knew” were posted in blog posts earlier in the year. Sure, newer people joined since then, but wouldn’t the majority of players reading the blog posts now that have been playing since before the April Feature Pack have also read the blog posts then?

Esplen.3940:

All of what “we knew” were posted in blog posts earlier in the year. Sure, newer people joined since then, but wouldn’t the majority of players reading the blog posts now that have been playing since before the April Feature Pack have also read the blog posts then?

I suggest you interview people in game. Even if stuff was posted in the blog, most people will never even read it. The point is, you and I represent only a small portion of the playerbase. Those posts aren’t for people who delve deeper. They’re for everyone else.

There are still other words to use than exciting and excited.

Examples:

“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some engaging changes to the megaserver system!”
“We’re pleased to announce some updates to commander tags!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely enthusiastic about the balance changes it will bring!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exclusive additions to PvP!”

Note for the middle two, it’s THEIR opinion, so it’s fine for it to be exciting, however I changed them for the sake of this posts purpose.

The first and last ones are both more appropriate and not forcing an opinion onto the reader.

Just because something can be exciting doesn’t mean it will. If you’re excited, you can say that, but you shouldn’t say that “it’s an exciting thing that’s going to happen” just because you’re excited.

Esplen.3940:

There are still other words to use than exciting and excited.

Examples:

“We’ll be using the September 2014 Feature Pack to bring some engaging changes to the megaserver system!”
“We’re pleased to announce some updates to commander tags!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely enthusiastic about the balance changes it will bring!”
“The September 2014 Feature Pack is bringing exclusive additions to PvP!”

Note for the middle two, it’s THEIR opinion, so it’s fine for it to be exciting, however I changed them for the sake of this posts purpose.

The first and last ones are both more appropriate and not forcing an opinion onto the reader.

Just because something can be exciting doesn’t mean it will. If you’re excited, you can say that, but you shouldn’t say that “it’s an exciting thing that’s going to happen” just because you’re excited.

How is engaging less an opinion than exciting though.

From an editing stand point, you shouldn’t use the same word over and over again. From a marketing point of view, it’s exactly what you do.

The megaserver changes will engage all players, regardless of opinion or choice. Your guilds will now be merged, that’s pretty darn engaging, regardless of how excited (or engaged) in the changes you are.

Well, unless you don’t have a guild… or your guild is in a single world… but I DON’T SEE YOU OFFERING ANY SUGGESTIONS!

Tbh, I was quite excited about multi server guild option. The fact that my guild has died isn’t really relevant, but at least I can get my hands on all that influence that has accumulated

There isn’t anything wrong with them using the word exited. Just because you aren’t excited, does not mean that they can’t or should not be.

Although we knew the mega server will merge our guild from separate server long enough. But we don’t know when exactly. Now it is going to happen, what stop players to feel exicted?

I am exicted about it, my guild is a very small guild founded in a very low populated EU server. We’ve moved to a more populated NA server and left everything behind. I do hope to get those lost influence back. I can’t find a reason not to feel excited.

Ahem, anet I’ve even done some of the work for you:
http://bit.ly/1rvXXnP
http://bit.ly/1p1rYbJ

Also, anyone who designs an “Exciting to Kitten” version of the “Cloud to Butts Plus” chrome extension will be awarded 1 gold.

Although it’s quite common for many people to get used to using certain words to display emotion. When they are over used (as this thread states) they often lose their appeal. So here are some words that could be used in lieu of “exciting”: (some only work with how you’re trying to use the word “exciting”)

appealing
astonishing
breathtaking
dangerous
dramatic
flashy
hectic
impressive
interesting
intriguing
lively
moving
provocative
stimulating
thrilling
animating
arousing
arresting
bracing
electrifying
fine
impelling
intoxicating
overpowering
overwhelming
rousing
stirring
titillating
agitative
exhilarating
eye-popping
far-out
groovy
hair-raising
heady
melodramatic
mind-blowing
neat
racy
rip-roaring
sensational
showy
spine-tingling
wild
zestful

This discussion is very exciting!

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Yeah, start calling it all stimulating and racy instead. :P

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193461/Video_Selling_to_both_the_bro_gamers_and_the_connoisseurs.php

While it’s not his source, you may find it interesting viewing.

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Edit: I would believe that 15% or less of console gamers use forums to discuss games.

I also believe that out of all the people who come to these forums only 15% or less actively participate in discussion or create topics. Most just lurk.

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Do you have a link to back that up? I hate to break it to you, but the lecture was about PC gamers.

There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.

The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.

The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.

The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Do you have a link to back that up? I hate to break it to you, but the lecture was about PC gamers.

There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.

Direct quote from the article you linked " During this talk, Rigby and Skinner presented a division of AAA XBox games into two tiers"

The blind indeed.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.

The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.

The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.

The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_

It’s the one percent rule and doesn’t make any statement on how many actually use forums, just how many participate.

More and more companies use forums or social media to connect to their consumer base, not less. It speaks to it’s importance, not it’s mediocrity.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.

The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.

The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.

The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_

It’s the one percent rule and doesn’t make any statement on how many actually use forums, just how many participate.

More and more companies use forums or social media to connect to their consumer base, not less. It speaks to it’s importance, not it’s mediocrity.

But I still ran a Guild Wars 2 forum and I know the percentage of posters from first hand experience. Feel free to call me a liar if you want. And the amount of people posting, even with a large number of lurkers don’t add up to the number of people I suspect are playing the game.

But I’ve been through this conversation many times in many forums in the past. This isn’t the first time. I’m not usually the guy who finds and provides links because I’m lazy. I’m okay if you don’t want to believe me. Really. I’m fine with that.

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Do you have a link to back that up? I hate to break it to you, but the lecture was about PC gamers.

There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.

Direct quote from the article you linked " During this talk, Rigby and Skinner presented a division of AAA XBox games into two tiers"

The blind indeed.

Read their articles on why we play games. The majority of their research is based on PC gamers. Nice try hanging on a soundbyte.

Still waiting for your link that says there’s a sizable difference between the habits of PC gamers and console gamers.

I think there was probably a point where a larger percentage of PC users read stuff online. Now, however, PCs are really mainstream. That’s why Guild Wars 2 isn’t really like the original Everquest. Far fewer people bought/played Everquest, because it was a game that required a specific mindset.

Now, computers have deep market penetration. So many people have them. A lot of older people playing games that aren’t even really all that computer literate.

And you know, maybe someone might one time click on the forum see a bunch of words and very few pictures and log off. There are people who love forums, but I’m sure we’re a vast minority of the playerbase.

Edit: Actually does anyone have the quote from the lotro dev recently about who posts on the forum and what percentage of the population they are? If someone could post it that would be cool.

Basically even though the entire forum seemed to center on raids, only 2% of the gaming population ever raided in Lotro, according to the devs, who said to look at the forums you’d think it was most players.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.

The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.

The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.

The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_

It’s the one percent rule and doesn’t make any statement on how many actually use forums, just how many participate.

More and more companies use forums or social media to connect to their consumer base, not less. It speaks to it’s importance, not it’s mediocrity.

But I still ran a Guild Wars 2 forum and I know the percentage of posters from first hand experience. Feel free to call me a liar if you want. And the amount of people posting, even with a large number of lurkers don’t add up to the number of people I suspect are playing the game.

But I’ve been through this conversation many times in many forums in the past. This isn’t the first time. I’m not usually the guy who finds and provides links because I’m lazy. I’m okay if you don’t want to believe me. Really. I’m fine with that.

It’s not about believing or disbelieving you. It’s about using made up statistics to back up an agenda. The same way that some would say " You don’t speak for everyone" “You are a very small minority, everyone is actually very happy” to refute someone who has an issue with something.

I have no clue how many individuals use forums or look at forums or watch the news, and I would wager neither do you. Anet knows how many use these forums, and it seems to be an important tool for them to connect with their player base. Downplaying this forum’s users and their importance does all of us a disservice.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

DarcShriek.5829:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

snip

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

Ahum…starting to push the credulity barrier a bit there. If you got the stats to back up that claim would love to see em.

http://interactive.usc.edu/2013/04/13/gdc-talk-the-applied-value-of-player-psychology/

This is a good place to start.

Different types of gamers. Console vs. PC.

Yep, it is a different type of gamer. But over the years we’ve heard quotes from devs and stuff that blow our minds. LIke x percent of people have never been to a trait screen, and stuff like that.

The biggest percentage, yes, I don’t have an exact percentage, of gamers are really casual. THey go to work, they come home, they pop on the game in the way people used to drop down in front of TVs. Even most computer gamers.

The thing is, this is not one source that says X. This is gleaned from maybe ten, twelve years of following gaming in many interviews and having read many papers. There’s also the 80/20 rule which you can google. There’s all sorts of varations on it. 20% of the population makes almost all the posts. Everyone else is just a lurker. I know those stats are true from a forum I moderated where I got to see the stats.

The number of posts and probably even views on these forums wouldn’t come close to accounting for the size of the user base. Just stop and think about it. Look at reddit for almost any game and compare the number of members to the number of players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_

It’s the one percent rule and doesn’t make any statement on how many actually use forums, just how many participate.

More and more companies use forums or social media to connect to their consumer base, not less. It speaks to it’s importance, not it’s mediocrity.

But I still ran a Guild Wars 2 forum and I know the percentage of posters from first hand experience. Feel free to call me a liar if you want. And the amount of people posting, even with a large number of lurkers don’t add up to the number of people I suspect are playing the game.

But I’ve been through this conversation many times in many forums in the past. This isn’t the first time. I’m not usually the guy who finds and provides links because I’m lazy. I’m okay if you don’t want to believe me. Really. I’m fine with that.

It’s not about believing or disbelieving you. It’s about using made up statistics to back up an agenda. The same way that some would say " You don’t speak for everyone" “You are a very small minority, everyone is actually very happy” to refute someone who has an issue with something.

I have no clue how many individuals use forums or look at forums or watch the news, and I would wager neither do you. Anet knows how many use these forums, and it seems to be an important tool for them to connect with their player base. Downplaying this forum’s users and their importance does all of us a disservice.

Well someone I’m sure will find and post the Lotro dev interview about why they don’t do raids anymore. He was very clear about 2% of the gaming population raiding, compared to the number of people on the forums who talked about raiding. It’s the very thing we’re talking about here.

The forums don’t represent the majority of the playerbase at least at Lotro…which isn’t available on console. But it’s been like that in almost every game I’ve seen.

Ghostgrawler talked years about about how few people actually raided in WoW, but to read the forums you’d think everyone did.

Over the years many devs have made similar observations. Could I find any of those quotes now? No.

But yeah the 15% number was just a throwaway number. It wasn’t meant to be accurate. It was meant to say that gaming communities are seldom represented by forum posters in any way that is meaningful. This I truly believe and I truly believe most devs would probably agree.

It’s also quite useless open threads about it.

Vayne.8563:

It was meant to say that gaming communities are seldom represented by forum posters in any way that is meaningful. This I truly believe and I truly believe most devs would probably agree.

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Yes, some forum communities undoubtedly misrepresent the general pulse of player satisfaction and feedback, but it’s also possible that forum communities can house some of the most fiercely loyal and creatively dedicated players, who want the game to be even better than what it is.

So I think the forum communities can just as easily be misleading as they can voice concerns that no one else will. For example, guilds sometimes have members who complain about various features in a game, but for whatever reason, those same players don’t send their complaints out in any way that a dev can see them. And yet they still have that possibility of quitting the game over something that went too far in the wrong direction.

Well someone took their direction to demonstrate enthusiasm when speaking about the product to customers very, very, seriously. As much as it might be cute to see a new adjective every patch or announcement (perhaps with a check off list so that there is no repetition), I don’t know that it really matters. Maybe they really are just an excitable bunch ?

The Ghostcrawler quote was actually about Sunwell Plateau (one of the longest and hardest raids from BC era WoW) and has since been taken out of context more often than not to downplay the inclusion of difficult instanced content. Only 2 percent of the player base actually completed the raid (before the next expansion came out…and the expansion followed shortly on the heels of Sunwell Plateau), but he never gave stats on how many actually tried or attempted the content. It was one of the reasons given for the easier raiding content in WotLK.

Many people at the time were leery of starting up yet another raid when an expansion was releasing soon, which would institute yet another jump in power levels almost immediately just from completing 5 man instances and open world quest chains. It spoke more about timing of the release rather than the type of content itself. If 2 percent ever actually only played the content, they just wouldn’t include it.

killcannon.2576:

The Ghostcrawler quote was actually about Sunwell Plateau (one of the longest and hardest raids from BC era WoW) and has since been taken out of context more often than not to downplay the inclusion of difficult instanced content. Only 2 percent of the player base actually completed the raid (before the next expansion came out…and the expansion followed shortly on the heels of Sunwell Plateau), but he never gave stats on how many actually tried or attempted the content. It was one of the reasons given for the easier raiding content in WotLK.

Many people at the time were leery of starting up yet another raid when an expansion was releasing soon, which would institute yet another jump in power levels almost immediately just from completing 5 man instances and open world quest chains. It spoke more about timing of the release rather than the type of content itself. If 2 percent ever actually only played the content, they just wouldn’t include it.

Well Lotro stopped making raids altogether and they said 2% of the population raided, period end stop. This was very recent, within the last couple of months. But he said the forums didn’t reflect that at all.

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

It was meant to say that gaming communities are seldom represented by forum posters in any way that is meaningful. This I truly believe and I truly believe most devs would probably agree.

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Yes, some forum communities undoubtedly misrepresent the general pulse of player satisfaction and feedback, but it’s also possible that forum communities can house some of the most fiercely loyal and creatively dedicated players, who want the game to be even better than what it is.

So I think the forum communities can just as easily be misleading as they can voice concerns that no one else will. For example, guilds sometimes have members who complain about various features in a game, but for whatever reason, those same players don’t send their complaints out in any way that a dev can see them. And yet they still have that possibility of quitting the game over something that went too far in the wrong direction.

Sure it’s a possibility, but let’s look at it this way.

Almost all min-maxers are going to be on forums looking at that sort of thing. But almost all casual solo players aren’t going to be. We know a reasonably large percentage of people just solo through MMOs as if it’s a single player game. We know it from stuff said by other devs, and even Anet long before Guild Wars 2 launched, had information about soloing on the FAQ. If it wasn’t an anticipated question, I doubt it would have been there.

You don’t need to go on forums to play Guild Wars 2 like Skyrim and I strongly suspect most people don’t. Those people aren’t interested in dungeons and often aren’t interested in PvP, or even WvW. They just bang around the open world killing stuff. Some might find a champ train. They just hang out and have a good time and kill stuff.

It’s a pretty big segment of the population you’ll never really hear from on a forum.

So when people make statements like there’s nothing new in the game or there’s no content…I’ve heard complaints from people that there’s too much in the game and they keep feeling like they’re falling behind.

You don’t see that represented very often on the forums either.

There are definitely people, however, who asked for updates to be spaced further apart, to keep the pace more relaxed. But you don’t hear from those people all that often, even though I know they’re out there.

Vayne.8563:

There are definitely people, however, who asked for updates to be spaced further apart, to keep the pace more relaxed. But you don’t hear from those people all that often, even though I know they’re out there.

I would have preferred monthly releases for LS1.

Just showing that there are some of us out there.

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

“We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out. "

Really? The “We” in your statement is false. Don’t include me and many others in your false statement. How can you be certain that “we” are the small under 20%? Just because one game’s forum has less than 20% doesn’t mean that ALL game’s forum are less than 20. -_- Check League of Legends and you’ll get the idea. I never understood why you always like to come in to every post and disagreeing with OP, especially when it is a negative post. Get over yourself and stay on topic.

Regarding the “excited” word, Anet does tend to use it. But if that’s how they feel, what can we say. I’m just not excited with the current ranger class. Wishing for the best of luck for the ranger community with this upcoming September patch.

Time to log off the forum since I, just like the rest of the 80%, don’t hang out on the forum 24/7 like some people do.

Good post Topic Creator…

Simon.3106:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

The 15% of the people who follow forums and reddit.

Source? Or did you make it up?

Anyone who isn’t trying to be completely disingenuous would know that I’m not talking about an exact number. We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out.

But I can if you haven’t heard it before. Most people who play games just play games. An overwhelming majority. They don’t visit forums. They don’t visit build sites. They don’t even visit Dulfy or the wiki.

We’re the small under 20%. You don’t have to believe it. But that’s what it is. Most people buy a game, play it and don’t think very deeply about the experience.

“We know from many many games over a very long time that somwhere between 10-20% of the player base ever visit the forums. The fact is so well known and been said so many times in so many places that I didn’t really think I needed to spell it out. "

Really? The “We” in your statement is false. Don’t include me and many others in your false statement. How can you be certain that “we” are the small under 20%? Just because one game’s forum has less than 20% doesn’t mean that ALL game’s forum are less than 20. -_- Check League of Legends and you’ll get the idea. I never understood why you always like to come in to every post and disagreeing with OP, especially when it is a negative post. Get over yourself and stay on topic.

Regarding the “excited” word, Anet does tend to use it. But if that’s how they feel, what can we say. I’m just not excited with the current ranger class. Wishing for the best of luck for the ranger community with this upcoming September patch.

Time to log off the forum since I, just like the rest of the 80%, don’t hang out on the forum 24/7 like some people do.

Good post Topic Creator…

We meaning me and other people like me. We is not everyone. I could say I know, but more people than I know this. How do I know? Because other people have said similar stuff on this very forum. Ergo, we is the right word to use.

Now, as to this partaining to the topic, surely if the forum isn’t representative of the majority (which was the original argument) than the forum not thinking something is exciting is no real reason to change the word. Not for the benefit of a vocal minority.

Or do you think that’s somehow off topic?

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

The Ghostcrawler quote was actually about Sunwell Plateau (one of the longest and hardest raids from BC era WoW) and has since been taken out of context more often than not to downplay the inclusion of difficult instanced content. Only 2 percent of the player base actually completed the raid (before the next expansion came out…and the expansion followed shortly on the heels of Sunwell Plateau), but he never gave stats on how many actually tried or attempted the content. It was one of the reasons given for the easier raiding content in WotLK.

Many people at the time were leery of starting up yet another raid when an expansion was releasing soon, which would institute yet another jump in power levels almost immediately just from completing 5 man instances and open world quest chains. It spoke more about timing of the release rather than the type of content itself. If 2 percent ever actually only played the content, they just wouldn’t include it.

Well Lotro stopped making raids altogether and they said 2% of the population raided, period end stop. This was very recent, within the last couple of months. But he said the forums didn’t reflect that at all.

They’ve been saying it since 2012. And guess what…they keep making raids.

Game developers, go figure. shrug.