Guild Wars 2

It’s nice to see Canthan content making their way in the current client, but I have to say the design on the hat is so off it’s ridiculous. First thing that came to mind was not enough research. Linking pictures for comparison.

In game version:
http://i.imgur.com/meH8xsZ.jpg

Correct representation:
http://imgur.com/a/dlgSE
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Japanese_buddhist_monk_by_Arashiyama_cut.jpg

Not so accurate representation:
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/63695/63695,1246123661,2/stock-photo-traditional-asian-man-meditating-with-conical-straw-hat-32794162.jpg

So.. let me see if I understand things correctly… You’re complaining about incorrect hat design, in a world where you can hold a sword out in front of you and fire lasers at people… In a world where we have semi-bipedal cat/bull people. In a world where a major world leader is the manifestation of a tree.

Lets ignore the fantastical. You’re complaining about a hat on a halloween costume.. Halloween is supposed to be scary, and what I’m seeing is a hat that’s cracked and broken, the wearer probably in worse shape than that. Its ominous I would not want to see a person shuffling along with a limp or a mangled leg, the brim of that hat low covering their face. The imagination itself does wonders..

But you’re complaining about a hat. Alright then..

I think it was meant to be closer to the hats commonly represented as being worn by farmers/peasants in China whilst working in rice paddy fields.

In fact a quick google calls it a “rice paddy hat” although that just sounds wrong. Wiki (yeah I know not massively reliable) suggests that in mainland China it’s called a d?ulì.

When you say Asian, please be specific. The Asia area encompasses a huge area. If you are referring to the Halloween female costume, then Anet hit the bulls eye, as it is an accurate representation of Medieval Japanese peasant farmers rice straw hats. Also taking into consideration the close proximity of Japan to China, it is highly probable that this design was adopted from there, as it affords head protection, is relatively easy to make with readily available local resources. Unlike the picture indicated, peasants, would not have been able to afford the luxury of tightly wound stylish hats, that look like they came straight from a shop!

I suppose they could have gone with this style china cap, but it wouldn’t have been as scary for the costume(or would it…)

http://www.nsfsales.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/C/C/CCS-9C_1.jpg

AdaephonDelat.3890:

I think it was meant to be closer to the hats commonly represented as being worn by farmers/peasants in China whilst working in rice paddy fields.

In fact a quick google calls it a “rice paddy hat” although that just sounds wrong. Wiki (yeah I know not massively reliable) suggests that in mainland China it’s called a d?ulì.

You are referring to these?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20110531/0013729e4ad90f4ee39504.jpg
http://darmansyah.weblog.esaunggul.ac.id/wp-content/uploads/sites/97/2013/01/chinese-farmer.jpg
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/90075/90075,1220221689,4/stock-photo-yangshuo-chinese-farmer-cultivate-rice-16799923.jpg

Those aren’t that sharp or narrow either.

Mouhappai.5406:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

I think it was meant to be closer to the hats commonly represented as being worn by farmers/peasants in China whilst working in rice paddy fields.

In fact a quick google calls it a “rice paddy hat” although that just sounds wrong. Wiki (yeah I know not massively reliable) suggests that in mainland China it’s called a d?ulì.

You are referring to these?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/photo/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20110531/0013729e4ad90f4ee39504.jpg
http://darmansyah.weblog.esaunggul.ac.id/wp-content/uploads/sites/97/2013/01/chinese-farmer.jpg
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/90075/90075,1220221689,4/stock-photo-yangshuo-chinese-farmer-cultivate-rice-16799923.jpg

Those aren’t that sharp or narrow either.

This seems to be a closer representation of what I was referring to -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Rice_02.jpg

But yes the ones you linked are what I think of when referring to that style of hat. Now whether it can be narrower or pointer like the one that comes with the outfit I don’t know. Different styles perhaps?

Shadey Dancer.2907:

When you say Asian, please be specific. The Asia area encompasses a huge area. If you are referring to the Halloween female costume, then Anet hit the bulls eye, as it is an accurate representation of Medieval Japanese peasant farmers rice straw hats. Also taking into consideration the close proximity of Japan to China, it is highly probable that this design was adopted from there, as it affords head protection, is relatively easy to make with readily available local resources. Unlike the picture indicated, peasants, would not have been able to afford the luxury of tightly wound stylish hats, that look like they came straight from a shop!

I would have to disagree with your statement. Using this japanese design to generalize the whole Asian/Chinese design is just ignorance, and I’m not even gonna mention the amount of history before the Manchus. Even if this was Chinese influenced, it is only more prevalent southern region border along Vietnam.

Even in generalizing, the first thing many people would have associated the Conical Asian hat with is mostly the South East Asia region (Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines, Indonesia) compared to the Orient. Especially in Vietnam where it is the national costume.

Here’s a link from wikipedia for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Paddy_Hat

As for Tagashi Jack, you’re kinda stepping all over the racist line. Thank you very much.

They’re named nón là in Vietnam
It’s the most known conical hat to western countries so this is probably why they made it that way.

Saying they goofed on the “asian hat” is wrong because there are many different hat styles all over Asia.

Haishao.6851:

They’re named nón là in Vietnam
It’s the most known conical hat to western countries so this is probably why they made it that way.

Saying they goofed on the “asian hat” is wrong because there are many different hat styles all over Asia.

Erm. You just contradicted yourself.

So Western Countries can generalize most of asian hat styles with the nón là. While we, the rest cannot say the “asian hat” because it’s generalizing many different hat styles over Asia.

ROFL.

At what point did Anet say it was supposed to represent any sort of hat? It’s a Tyrian hat, it’s not supposed to exactly mimic any real world style of hat.

Hi, i’m Vietnamese, i’m so very happy that someone has regcognised these are nón lá, a traditional hat of Vietnamese. I think ANET is right if they take inspiration from Nón lá to design that hat.
Sorry for my bad English.
This is the link you can check :
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Paddy_Hat

kyrioscyrus.2857:

Haishao.6851:

They’re named nón là in Vietnam
It’s the most known conical hat to western countries so this is probably why they made it that way.

Saying they goofed on the “asian hat” is wrong because there are many different hat styles all over Asia.

Erm. You just contradicted yourself.

So Western Countries can generalize most of asian hat styles with the nón là. While we, the rest cannot say the “asian hat” because it’s generalizing many different hat styles over Asia.

ROFL.

When did I say you can’t say Asian hat?
I said you cannot say arenanet goofed asian hat. Because they didn’t.
They used the most commonly known.

Mouhappai.5406:

It’s nice to see Canthan content making their way in the current client, but I have to say the design on the hat is so off it’s ridiculous. First thing that came to mind was not enough research. Linking pictures for comparison.

In game version:
http://i.imgur.com/meH8xsZ.jpg

Correct representation:
http://imgur.com/a/dlgSE
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Japanese_buddhist_monk_by_Arashiyama_cut.jpg

Not so accurate representation:
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/63695/63695,1246123661,2/stock-photo-traditional-asian-man-meditating-with-conical-straw-hat-32794162.jpg

The “Asian Hat” is a halloween themed outfit. Who cares if it doesn’t closely resemble what you THINK it should resemble.

Can’t believe this needs explaning..

i think this thread is mad as a hatter. . .

Haishao.6851:

When did I say you can’t say Asian hat?
I said you cannot say arenanet goofed asian hat. Because they didn’t.
They used the most commonly known.

Well, by your usage of quotation marks on the word “asian hat”, was there any reason for putting them? Because the way it was phrased seemed like it was a problem with saying Asian hat.

So because they used the commonly known hat, isn’t that also generalizing or stereotyping Asian hats in general? Isn’t that what you were against? Because it is the same as saying, as you said, that the “asian hat” is wrong because there are many different hat styles all over Asia.

So by saying that Anet didn’t goof it up, and using a commonly known hat, then it means that Anet acknowledges that they ignored all the other different hat styles all over Asia, to favor the Conical Asian hat.

Royale.5863:

Mouhappai.5406:

It’s nice to see Canthan content making their way in the current client, but I have to say the design on the hat is so off it’s ridiculous. First thing that came to mind was not enough research. Linking pictures for comparison.

In game version:
http://i.imgur.com/meH8xsZ.jpg

Correct representation:
http://imgur.com/a/dlgSE
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Japanese_buddhist_monk_by_Arashiyama_cut.jpg

Not so accurate representation:
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/63695/63695,1246123661,2/stock-photo-traditional-asian-man-meditating-with-conical-straw-hat-32794162.jpg

The “Asian Hat” is a halloween themed outfit. Who cares if it doesn’t closely resemble what you THINK it should resemble.

Can’t believe this needs explaning..

Thanks for explaining nonetheless, I appreciate your tactfulness. I’ll just assume it’s based on the design of the Vietnamese then, or a Halloween themed outfit.

I’m part Indonesian and although I wasn’t born there I spent enough time there to see similar headwear in popular use, especially on the sawas / rice fields. I like the hat- wish I could use it separately with other outfits / armour. It’s a pretty decent artist’s impression. So the fuss is…?

cheshirefox.7026:

i think this thread is mad as a hatter. . .

Most sence I have read so far. Too many touchy feely ‘omg your racist’ type comments over, of all things a hat. Get over yourselves. It was a Halloween costume, and a great two week event, but some people will never be happy it seems.

First: “It’s just a Halloween costume” is no excuse for racism, and yes, it can be racism when you decide to generalize an entire continent with old stereotypes.

Speaking as a half-Viet person I’m okay with the design of the outfit in general, as while it does use a bunch of (mostly?) southeast Asian elements that are recognizable as such it doesn’t use anything that has significant cultural meaning that could be distorted/disrespected and it remains far enough from the usual stereotyped crap you see everywhere that it strikes me more as a decent effort for a one-off ‘Asian-inspired’ costume than anything else.

I do wish it had been available a something other than a Halloween reward however, because that buys right in the “dress up as another culture even though you know nothing about it” problematic issue, but well. Could have been worse.

jackaljag.8637:

First: “It’s just a Halloween costume” is no excuse for racism, and yes, it can be racism when you decide to generalize an entire continent with old stereotypes.
.

I sincerely hope you are not inferring that I am racist?

And this is why we can’t have nice things…

As a Viet, I recognize the design of the hat (nón lá) right away despite not appreciating it much as a Halloween costume. I do not think it suggests any kinds of tactless racism. Many enjoy it, and my friends even lovingly encourage me to get the outfit knowing my origin. I hope the OP receives his answer and changes the title to avoid confusion.

/thread

But…Where on Tyria is Asia?

Garambola.2461:

But…Where on Tyria is Asia?

So much this.

is it wrong to wear a slightly torn hat? =,=

You know it is a Halloween costume, and not a real representation of anything at all?

First let me say, that the title suggests that Anet goofed and then your first line is that its nice to see them introduce Canthan content. Which is to say, that if they did include this as Canthan, then they are the creators of said content and would know exactly what the hat should look like, not the OP.

But I believe the costume design has a lot to do with Onmyoji which would be like an exorcist or demon/ghost hunter. You will notice that the hat has paper ofuda hanging on all sides, which is a talisman that either protects the wearer by preventing possession, or simply wards off evil spirits. Taoists also use a version of ofuda calledkitten In Buddhism and Hinduism they are called Sutras. In Korean shamanism they are known as Pujok. Some ofuda might have simple commands like count and then the onmyoji would empty a bag of rice on the ground and the spirit would be force to count each grain, giving him time to seal the spirit.

Seeing as the costume was introduced for Halloween it makes perfect sense. If you know of some of these practices and religions.

SkyShroud.2865:

is it wrong to wear a slightly torn hat? =,=

The hole in the hat is so that you can look though to see the spirit for what he really is. Think of it like this, have you ever seen something out of the corner of your eye and when you turn your head its gone. With that concept the Onmyoji would use this hole in the hat to look out of the corner of there eye while looking directly in front of them. Thus allowing them to see the spirit and bring them out of hiding so they could do battle with them.

It is apparent to me that this outfit was designed to cater to the Chinese players so as not to make the game too estranged to their culture. Bonus the fact that Skulls and Crossbones are not allowed to be shown in game, it’s difficult to bring the Halloween’s vibe to a player base that is deprived of it. I think we shouldn’t read too much into the concept, especially in a fantasy MMO.

kyrioscyrus.2857:

Haishao.6851:

They’re named nón là in Vietnam
It’s the most known conical hat to western countries so this is probably why they made it that way.

Saying they goofed on the “asian hat” is wrong because there are many different hat styles all over Asia.

Erm. You just contradicted yourself.

So Western Countries can generalize most of asian hat styles with the nón là. While we, the rest cannot say the “asian hat” because it’s generalizing many different hat styles over Asia.

ROFL.

How is picking the most known/common type of hat generalizing?
Say someone calls for fruit and you give him an apple; are you generalizing fruit? You are just picking one common type of fruit, you can’t pick all the fruit.

SkyShroud.2865:

is it wrong to wear a slightly torn hat? =,=

Nothing wrong with slightly torn hats, but taking the most stereotypical representation of these type of hats and putting it on a monk-like costume seemed a little off to me I guess. If the answer to that is that it’s fine simply because it’s a Halloween costume, then that’s fine too.

What I don’t understand is why can’t people look at it as something new to learn about, rather than “you’re complaining? Sheesh do I have to explain it’s a Halloween costume?”

really…?

Canthan is not Asian.

They get to take some artistic liberties.

Prophet.6257:

Canthan is not Asian.

They get to take some artistic liberties.

Actually Canthan is very North-East Asian design influenced, not complete Asian influenced, because Asia would include Malayan, Philippines, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai culture influences.

But we do not see that in Canthan designs.

kyrioscyrus.2857:

Prophet.6257:

Canthan is not Asian.

They get to take some artistic liberties.

Actually Canthan is very North-East Asian design influenced, not complete Asian influenced, because Asia would include Malayan, Philippines, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai culture influences.

But we do not see that in Canthan designs.

Influenced yes but not in fact Asian.

This being a fantasy world and all Anet does get to set the rules of how their own cultures are defined.

“Anet goofed on the Asian hat…”

I agree, it obviously should have been made available to male characters as well.

:D

Prophet.6257:

kyrioscyrus.2857:

Prophet.6257:

Canthan is not Asian.

They get to take some artistic liberties.

Actually Canthan is very North-East Asian design influenced, not complete Asian influenced, because Asia would include Malayan, Philippines, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai culture influences.

But we do not see that in Canthan designs.

Influenced yes but not in fact Asian.

This being a fantasy world and all Anet does get to set the rules of how their own cultures are defined.

Which does not mean we are not allowed to discuss the cultures they take elements from, and/or express concerns if they steer close to harmful stereotypes.

What?
What harmful stereotype are you referring to?
A hat is a hat
A cat is a cat.
There is no “Harmful Stereotype” here.

As discussed above, the conical hat is a legitimate piece of head ware.
I think you are overreaching with that statement.

- This is almost as ridiculous as the ‘outrage’ over the shadow assassin outfit’s release.

jackaljag.8637:

Prophet.6257:

kyrioscyrus.2857:

Prophet.6257:

Canthan is not Asian.

They get to take some artistic liberties.

Actually Canthan is very North-East Asian design influenced, not complete Asian influenced, because Asia would include Malayan, Philippines, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai culture influences.

But we do not see that in Canthan designs.

Influenced yes but not in fact Asian.

This being a fantasy world and all Anet does get to set the rules of how their own cultures are defined.

Which does not mean we are not allowed to discuss the cultures they take elements from, and/or express concerns if they steer close to harmful stereotypes.

Fair enough.

Didn’t mean to imply discussion wasn’t an option. Personally I don’t see anything hurtful in this design though. jmo

I am okay with this particular design, as I’ve said earlier in this thread, other than its implementation as a Halloween costume and brushing aside all my problems with Cantha itself.

However, I find worrying that people are so quick to jump in shouting “it’s just a Halloween thing who cares” the moment people start discussing it, because it’s the same kind of defensiveness you see in people who find it fun to use blackface or wear feathered headdresses when told they’re being disrespectful, right before they shut down the conversation.

Fantasy and Cantha or not, the fact is inspiration is drawn from existing cultures. Please be open to discussion (or criticism, if it comes to that) on it, and be willing to accept that what seems ok to you as an outsider to those cultures can rub someone who knows and/or lives it wrong. People are allowed to say if something is wrong.

Note that this is not adressed to anyone in particular, but more a response to the tone of some of the posts I’m seeing in this thread. OP was wrong in saying the hat was a result of “not enough research”, as has been pointed out – but several people seem to see a general criticism of the costume and immediately jump on the “it’s just for fun/Halloween sheesh cool down” excuse, when it is not, in fact, a good excuse. If the issue had been that the hat was designed after a real life hat that had significant cultural meaning but was used here as a trivial matter and thus cheapened that culture for the sake of looking cool in a game, for example, would they have still used that excuse? Probably, and that’s what my issue is.

jackaljag.8637:

I am okay with this particular design, as I’ve said earlier in this thread, other than its implementation as a Halloween costume and brushing aside all my problems with Cantha itself.

However, I find worrying that people are so quick to jump in shouting “it’s just a Halloween thing who cares” the moment people start discussing it, because it’s the same kind of defensiveness you see in people who find it fun to use blackface or wear feathered headdresses when told they’re being disrespectful, right before they shut down the conversation.

Fantasy and Cantha or not, the fact is inspiration is drawn from existing cultures. Please be open to discussion (or criticism, if it comes to that) on it, and be willing to accept that what seems ok to you as an outsider to those cultures can rub someone who knows and/or lives it wrong. People are allowed to say if something is wrong.

Note that this is not adressed to anyone in particular, but more a response to the tone of some of the posts I’m seeing in this thread. OP was wrong in saying the hat was a result of “not enough research”, as has been pointed out – but several people seem to see a general criticism of the costume and immediately jump on the “it’s just for fun/Halloween sheesh cool down” excuse, when it is not, in fact, a good excuse. If the issue had been that the hat was designed after a real life hat that had significant cultural meaning but was used here as a trivial matter and thus cheapened that culture for the sake of looking cool in a game, for example, would they have still used that excuse? Probably, and that’s what my issue is.

did you read my post made earlier in the thread?

I don’t see how accurately representing a piece of cultural clothing is ever a problem on its own. What could be problematic is if GW2 had a distinctly asian race and only allowed them to wear such hats as the one being discussed.

But that is clearly not the case. Anyone can wear the hat and the only thing that distinctly links it to any sort of asian culture is the design; it’s not like the outfit has a sign on it that says “asian garb.”

I get that we need to be able to talk about this kind of stuff as a society, but in this case, it really is just a hat design in a fantasy game that is modeled after a hat seen in some existing cultures. Any connotation beyond that is on our end.

There is a difference between perpetuating an exaggerated cultural stereotype and representing a piece of culture visually.

I’m just going to say straw hat, even though there are many different kinds and variations and names of these hats, even inside of countries and cultures, there are different types. Its a hat made of dried plant, and its purpose is to protect your face/head/neck from the sun. It doesn’t really matter which part of the world it came from.

((Seriously, anytime you guys want to argue on the finer points between a Fedora and a Homburg, or argue about the differences between a Capitano hat and a Cavalier hat, let me know.))

Chrispy.5641:

I’m just going to say straw hat, even though there are many different kinds and variations and names of these hats, even inside of countries and cultures, there are different types.

Don’t forget different time periods and purposes.

To OP:
The more general term is jingasa (note the sub searches at top of page)
Sugegasa (lots of conical)
The ingame hat looks like a cross between sugegasa and roningasa (these appear in lots of samurai films)
You chose takuhatsugasa, which is for monks who want to intentionally limit their view of the world and the world’s view of them.
But what the ingame hat really is, is a copy from Total War (note the hanging things)

Chrispy.5641:

((Seriously, anytime you guys want to argue on the finer points between a Fedora and a Homburg, or argue about the differences between a Capitano hat and a Cavalier hat, let me know.))

Suuuuurre. We’ll do that. :P

op… you must be really fun at parties…

The hat is fine but the outfit in general isn’t that appealing. Much prefer my Mesmer’s “Asian” themed outfit.

http://oi57.tinypic.com/30w9owp.jpg

Black Frog.9274:

Chrispy.5641:

I’m just going to say straw hat, even though there are many different kinds and variations and names of these hats, even inside of countries and cultures, there are different types.

Don’t forget different time periods and purposes.

The most basic purpose of a hat is to protect the head/neck/face from the elements, especially if its a simple straw hat. Time period doesn’t matter, the purpose is always the same, whether its a Cone Hat, or a Sombrero.

When I clicked on this thread I was fully expecting to see somebody complaining that the hat was racist. XD

I think the hat looks very Asian influenced. It might not be a direct copy paste from real life, but that isn’t a bad thing.