Guild Wars 2

Ive spoken on this issue countless times.. but i cannot stress this enough, gw2 was a amazing game before feature pack 2. the NPE caused a huge amount of changes, like the inability to unlock skills when we wanted to, the removal of alot of fun content in the starting zone, a duty finder type pvp qeue system, the removal of underwater combat in pvp, stories unlocking every 10 levels, and now the trait system.. this never was a thing even one year into gw2’s release, im not bashing on anything you’re doing. im just saying its bothering me to see these changes are impacting the game to such a degree that it goes against its original design.

Trait system was introduced half a year before the NPE hit. We just celebrated its first birthday – it wasn’t sold to us as NPE back then but as “A lot of you missed the skill unlocking from GW1- take this instead”.

Tbh i opened myself up for alot of critisism here, i know that. but after spending 9,920 or so hours in the game, i have to take a stand against anet and say.. things need to go back to the way they were, this is becoming another generic mmo.

I wasn’t complaining, I just can’t understand why people think that the new fabulous traits system came with the NPE.

Edit: And it should change with HoT/shortly before HoT – anet is aware of the issues – and expect this thread to be merged with the already existing NPE thread.

Yes it was interesting that as soon as it was released GW2 sharply started changin direction.

One of the things that ‘wowed’ me was the awesome art work and style given to the game. It really is gorgeous…

Then Adventure Box came out… which was really popular… but just completely out of touch with the rest of the game.

Soon WvW was full of 8 bit explosion stomps…

Sadly Anet has shown no sign at all of maintaining thier original mannifesto… they always look for the easiest way to generate excitement then use it to cash-in.

Which to be fair, it is a business, and its here to make money… but I still wish that they were more concerned with making a great game over a ‘people pleasing – give the next gimmick’ type game.

Myst.9182:

Yes it was interesting that as soon as it was released GW2 sharply started changin direction.

One of the things that ‘wowed’ me was the awesome art work and style given to the game. It really is gorgeous…

Then Adventure Box came out… which was really popular… but just completely out of touch with the rest of the game.

Soon WvW was full of 8 bit explosion stomps…

Sadly Anet has shown no sign at all of maintaining thier original mannifesto… they always look for the easiest way to generate excitement then use it to cash-in.

Which to be fair, it is a business, and its here to make money… but I still wish that they were more concerned with making a great game over a ‘people pleasing – give the next gimmick’ type game.

Exactly, i 100% agree with you there. Myst you have my respect.

Jana.6831:

I wasn’t complaining, I just can’t understand why people think that the new fabulous traits system came with the NPE.

Edit: And it should change with HoT/shortly before HoT – anet is aware of the issues – and expect this thread to be merged with the already existing NPE thread.

Honestly Jana i expect my word to not be taken seriously and the post to be lost in the NPE thread as you said it would be merged.

Jana.6831:

I wasn’t complaining, I just can’t understand why people think that the new fabulous traits system came with the NPE.

Edit: And it should change with HoT/shortly before HoT – anet is aware of the issues – and expect this thread to be merged with the already existing NPE thread.

Because both Trait 2.0 and NPE came from the China client. It’s just Trait 2.0 was easier/quicker to port so we got that sooner than waiting for the more unified client which was when we got the NPE.

Devs mentioned that Trait 3.0 will be out before HoT.

Behellagh.1468:

Jana.6831:

I wasn’t complaining, I just can’t understand why people think that the new fabulous traits system came with the NPE.

Edit: And it should change with HoT/shortly before HoT – anet is aware of the issues – and expect this thread to be merged with the already existing NPE thread.

Because both Trait 2.0 and NPE came from the China client. It’s just Trait 2.0 was easier/quicker to port so we got that sooner than waiting for the more unified client which was when we got the NPE.

Devs mentioned that Trait 3.0 will be out before HoT.

HoT’s trait point system seems like they are removing the idea of the vendor.. which i couldnt agree more with if that is the case.

So my question to the general population of these forums, do you see how the changes on gw2 are changing it to be something it wasn’t originaly? or for that matter, are we trying to settle for a lesser quality game just because we paid $60 for it?

Well, all MMOs change over time and this one is no different. They are fixing things that they essentially “broke” like the trait system and the personal story, so they get that some things they changed were a mistake, but I can’t see them changing what they’re doing overall. For most players, things seem to be working alright.

I think it’s a matter of perspective. I have leveled 8 alts to 80 with the “old system”, and levelling 2 more under the NPE. Sure I find it different, but not very much. The major thing for me is the trait locking behind specific events, but I don’t find it aggravating, it’s just something more you can do in the game (pve wise). If I tire of it, I can always buy them.
I don’t agree on weapon skills unlock with levels, I preferred it as it was before, but eh, I’ll live with it.

so, TL,DR: I don’t find it “bad” per se, it’s just different.

A lot of people seem to forget that we always had level gating for some things, and that many of the things people claim to be level gated really aren’t.

For example, weapon swapping used to unlock at level 7. It unlocks at a higher level now but it was always gated.

However, most people who complain about this, also neglect the fact that leveling is a lot faster now from levels 1-15. According to Anet things unlock about when they used to time wise, not level wise.

The trait system is absolutely a shambles and Anet knows it, but it’s changing. The rest of the NPE isn’t really that bad.

And it’s only your first character for some of those changes. For example, after you level one character through the NPE, on the second character, a lot of things are already unlocked like skill point challenges.

You can do them from level 2, once you’ve unlocked them on your first character.

Jana.6831:

Trait system was introduced half a year before the NPE hit. We just celebrated its first birthday – it wasn’t sold to us as NPE back then but as “A lot of you missed the skill unlocking from GW1- take this instead”.

april to september, they were both systems in place in china, we just got the NPE later. Its pretty clear the systems were designed together. When you finish getting your skills, at 30, then traits come in. It was part of system that restructured your progress to be more pronounced on higher levels.
remember leveling is slower in china, and they wanted stronger carrots in place for leveling. Chinese people would come here complaining about it during beta , and anet was like a lot of things are just for china guys! dont worry about it!

Sages.3496:

Ive spoken on this issue countless times.. but i cannot stress this enough, gw2 was a amazing game before feature pack 2. the NPE caused a huge amount of changes, like the inability to unlock skills when we wanted to, the removal of alot of fun content in the starting zone, a duty finder type pvp qeue system, the removal of underwater combat in pvp, stories unlocking every 10 levels, and now the trait system.. this never was a thing even one year into gw2’s release, im not bashing on anything you’re doing. im just saying its bothering me to see these changes are impacting the game to such a degree that it goes against its original design.

Hi there, Traits are actually good change.
They provide a lot more good stuff, it’s true, some changes are annoying, but this one is perfectly fine with awesome rework and creation of new awesome playstyles.

Just wait, u’ll see this is going to be great. BUT i agree on other stuff that got changed in past, it’s annoying and frustrating…

Sages.3496:

Tbh i opened myself up for alot of critisism here, i know that. but after spending 9,920 or so hours in the game, i have to take a stand against anet and say.. things need to go back to the way they were, this is becoming another generic mmo.

If you really played that much, you played more than 10 hours EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. SINCE. RELEASE. ON AVERAGE.

I am just baffled that’s… just. What… how can? I mean what do you do in your life? This is not healthy, nor funny…

ProtoGunner.4953:

Sages.3496:

Tbh i opened myself up for alot of critisism here, i know that. but after spending 9,920 or so hours in the game, i have to take a stand against anet and say.. things need to go back to the way they were, this is becoming another generic mmo.

If you really played that much, you played more than 10 hours EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. SINCE. RELEASE. ON AVERAGE.

I am just baffled that’s… just. What… how can? I mean what do you do in your life? This is not healthy, nor funny…

Yeah.. look at this. very few have the ability to actually claim they have done so, but i can.

Not sure whether to offer congratulations…or condolences.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Not sure whether to offer congratulations…or condolences.

Dedication or obsession..

To OP.

This is an MMO. MMO’s have a history of changing, look at Ultima online, WoW, Rune Scape (or whats it’s name) and more. They change and it is not just small changes and they go agains their original design to try something new and hopefully get more players from it.

So what you say is in your opinion but I am different and have another opinion.
NPE is a neat idea but some restrictions is just too much, but I like the leveling system in the NPE and I like how you don’t get everything from the beginning and you level in GW2 so quick that it realy doesn’t matter. I have helped alot of new players and they totaly love the game and do not know what NPE is. Those who do not like the NPE are old players used to the old stuff and those bothered that their new friends are locked out at the moment for stuff they want to rush them to do.

Do not understand what you mean by Duty finder? PvP Match finder is a good idea but it needs some more work. It is alot better now than before atleast. Underwater battle is the thing I hate the most in this game and I would wish for it to be gone in PvE too. I am so happy that it is gone from PvP since it was so unbalanced and bad.

Stories unlocking every ten levels? What about it? It’s not like you could play a level 20 story with your level 10 character anyway, if you didn’t happen to get carried through it with a friend. I have always done some Exploring and when I was finnished with a map and had level enough for the story I did the story until I got to a new map and then I explored that map and again when I had finnished the map and had level for the story I did the story. For me this havent changed a bit. But I can understand that this is a frustration for people who just want to rush through the game. And then you complain that you can’t play the way you want and that it was promised!

The original design? … I do not have the design papers of the game and well we could and sit and look on the manefesto or whatever stuff anet released about the game before it went live. But for me as a player who never hyped over the game before it’s release the Orginal GW2 design is still here.

I level the same way as before, the battle mechanic is the same way as before, the story plot is the same as before, The PvP mechanic works the same way as before, WvW mechanic is the same way as before, there is still no Trinity in the game, there is no vertical progression after level 80 and more…

The only thing that they have changed from their Original design I might say is the Living Story.

(This is all Opinions I have and I do not say that OP isn’t entiteled to share his/her displeasures)

Sages.3496:

like the inability to unlock skills when we wanted to

I don’t understand this one. I’ve played since early release. You never used to be able to unlock skills whenever you wanted to. You still needed to use skill points to unlock skills, your utility and elite skills were level gated. Your weapon swap was level gated. Your traits were level gated. Heck even weapon skills had to be physically unlocked on each weapon.

I really don’t know what game you were playing where you could unlock skills whenever you wanted to, because it certainly wasn’t GW2.

With as fast as a character can be leveled to 80 just via playing normally and reading the tomes you get from daily logins, I really don’t see the NPE as an issue. I’ve added two accounts from the $10 sales so have experienced what the NPE is like with nothing unlocked. My only real complaint was the skill challenges being locked and having to go back and do them. But really, that takes just minutes, and is only for the first character.

Traits as-is are a bother, but that is all about to change.

Draknar.5748:

Sages.3496:

like the inability to unlock skills when we wanted to

I don’t understand this one. I’ve played since early release. You never used to be able to unlock skills whenever you wanted to. You still needed to use skill points to unlock skills, your utility and elite skills were level gated. Your weapon swap was level gated. Your traits were level gated. Heck even weapon skills had to be physically unlocked on each weapon.

I really don’t know what game you were playing where you could unlock skills whenever you wanted to, because it certainly wasn’t GW2.

When infact it was, weapon skills more specificaly, also note the actual utilities used to be unlocked at i believe it was levels 5, 10, 15, and the elite skill at level 30 with the traits being level 10.

100% agree with you here! GW2 was imho way better 2 years ago.

Raid on the Capricorn I miss you please come back!!!!

Id like to add here. i had a lvl 64 ranger in the old system. my system died and by the time i was able to get back on. it was the new system. I’m completely lost on the story and i chose a lot of paths that i never did. Its annoying on how the new system works. Im having a terrible time getting my chars to lvl because im limited on the skills i can use at lower lvls.

Pretty sure there’s a massive thread somewhere you can post in, no need to create a new one… of course search functionality and all that so here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/NPE-Feedback-Merged-Please-read-1st-post

CureForLiving.5360:

Pretty sure there’s a massive thread somewhere you can post in, no need to create a new one… of course search functionality and all that so here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/NPE-Feedback-Merged-Please-read-1st-post

Answer me this, when was the last time a post was made on that thread that didnt get lost in the sea of hate or thankful posts?

Sages.3496:

Answer me this, when was the last time a post was made on that thread that didnt get lost in the sea of hate or thankful posts?

Not to sound snotty, but how is your post any different from posts in that thread? You’re not saying anything here that wasn’t already said by (many) other people in other threads before theirs were also pulled into the merged thread.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Sages.3496:

Answer me this, when was the last time a post was made on that thread that didnt get lost in the sea of hate or thankful posts?

Not to sound snotty, but how is your post any different from posts in that thread? You’re not saying anything here that wasn’t already said by (many) other people in other threads before theirs were also pulled into the merged thread.

I understand what you are saying, im not saying my post is any different. but anet has a habbit of not realy paying atention to those who liked the base game. they just do what they wish, when they wish. its been proved before with things like the gem exchange.

Are you talking day 1 GW2 or are you flashing back to GW? NPE swung the pendulum of a in game tutorial all the way to the other side versus the original, exit the game and watch this YouTube video or read the wiki.

While I could puzzle most things out quickly when I started since I played MMOs before I could understand that to a true newbie it could be too much. And the one true fumble with NPE is not noting and disabling some of the tutorial elements for those who already made it past level X.

And with Traits 2.0 they tried to fix a problem that a lot of MMOs have, dead maps. I saw map specific dailies, Living World chapters, and other attempts to direct players into areas that may not have a lot of players in them because playstyles in PvE degenerated into “farms” (boss trains, champ trains, etc). Now you have a reason other than map complete to go there, a reason to look for and do some event, if you are SP and gold poor. However do to tying them to existing content, too many traits end up behind higher level content then when a player wanted to learn it, which means SP and gold farming. Nobody likes it when you are given a choice but really not.

Sages.3496:

Draknar.5748:

Sages.3496:

like the inability to unlock skills when we wanted to

I don’t understand this one. I’ve played since early release. You never used to be able to unlock skills whenever you wanted to. You still needed to use skill points to unlock skills, your utility and elite skills were level gated. Your weapon swap was level gated. Your traits were level gated. Heck even weapon skills had to be physically unlocked on each weapon.

I really don’t know what game you were playing where you could unlock skills whenever you wanted to, because it certainly wasn’t GW2.

When infact it was, weapon skills more specificaly, also note the actual utilities used to be unlocked at i believe it was levels 5, 10, 15, and the elite skill at level 30 with the traits being level 10.

Now you have utilities fully unlocked by level 19 instead of 15, and elite at 40 instead of 30. Having leveled alts before and after these changes, I find the pacing to be exactly the same. So the numbers changed, whatever. It’s really nothing to get riled about. Instead of thinking about it in terms of “by level X”, think of it in terms of “by hour X”. Maybe that will help you to see how trivial the change actually is in terms of utility/weapon swap unlock pacing. I mean, if you can get to level 19 in the same amount of time as you used to be able to get to level 15, did anything really change?

Draknar.5748:

Now you have utilities fully unlocked by level 19 instead of 15, and elite at 40 instead of 30.

Just pointing out that elite skills unlock at level 31.

Sages.3496:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Sages.3496:

Tbh i opened myself up for alot of critisism here, i know that. but after spending 9,920 or so hours in the game, i have to take a stand against anet and say.. things need to go back to the way they were, this is becoming another generic mmo.

If you really played that much, you played more than 10 hours EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. SINCE. RELEASE. ON AVERAGE.

I am just baffled that’s… just. What… how can? I mean what do you do in your life? This is not healthy, nor funny…

Yeah.. look at this. very few have the ability to actually claim they have done so, but i can.

Don’t think I would treat that ‘accomplishment’ as some sort of badge of honor.
I know that if I were to play ANY game for that many hours a day, on a consistent basis, for that many years, I would go completely stark raving mad.

Just curious, and don’t mean this to sound degrading or anything…….but do you have any sort of actual life outside the game?

Sages.3496:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Not sure whether to offer congratulations…or condolences.

Dedication or obsession..

That sort of time investment into a video game goes way beyond ‘dedication’ or ‘obsession’, imo.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Sages.3496:

Answer me this, when was the last time a post was made on that thread that didnt get lost in the sea of hate or thankful posts?

Not to sound snotty, but how is your post any different from posts in that thread? You’re not saying anything here that wasn’t already said by (many) other people in other threads before theirs were also pulled into the merged thread.

Completely agree. This thread should be merged with the others. It holds no more importance than any of the other threads on this subject.

This thread is pointless, it doesn’t offer any constructive suggestions or anything of the sort. Just cause you say you “played” (think you just left the game running a lot of the time) for 10k hours doesn’t mean you know what’s good for the game and what isn’t. GW2 is in an amazing place right now, it’s going places, growing, evolving. Could it do that faster, sure, but some thing when pushed and rushed can go terribly wrong. All you did by posting this is complain about the things you seem to not like. But if you ask me, you’re completely burnt out from playing. If that 10k hours played is true, you spent more than 413 full days in the game. That’s crazy and unhealthy.

hobotnicax.7918:

This thread is pointless, it doesn’t offer any constructive suggestions or anything of the sort. Just cause you say you “played” (think you just left the game running a lot of the time) for 10k hours doesn’t mean you know what’s good for the game and what isn’t. GW2 is in an amazing place right now, it’s going places, growing, evolving. Could it do that faster, sure, but some thing when pushed and rushed can go terribly wrong. All you did by posting this is complain about the things you seem to not like. But if you ask me, you’re completely burnt out from playing. If that 10k hours played is true, you spent more than 413 full days in the game. That’s crazy and unhealthy.

Yep, just because i have a opinion about the old systems in gw2 being better means im wrong. remember the champion shawman in lake ferretas in the charr starting area? thats gone.