Guild Wars 2

Humans have 2 cities.

Yeah, I hate balance too.

Also, a lot of the stuff you said is just plain wrong. Not like Opinion wrong. Factually wrong.

Yargesh.4965:

Humans have 2 cities.

Lions Arch is located in the center of the map and is supposed to be a city for all races.

Envy.1679:

Yeah, I hate balance too.

Also, a lot of the stuff you said is just plain wrong. Not like Opinion wrong. Factually wrong.

The amounts of utility skills and elite skills are unimportant. They are clearly designed to mirror each other and add up perfectly. Just because engineer has like, 5 turrets and 3 elixers doesn’t make them unique.

Alex Shatter.7956:

Yargesh.4965:

Humans have 2 cities.

Lions Arch is located in the center of the map and is supposed to be a city for all races.

Nope. There’s another one :-D

Andraus.3874:

Alex Shatter.7956:

Yargesh.4965:

Humans have 2 cities.

Lions Arch is located in the center of the map and is supposed to be a city for all races.

Nope. There’s another one :-D

Ebonhawke fortress also doesn’t count lol. It’s a decorative element of its map.

Yeah, wasn’t talking about Lions Arch.

There are 6 dragons. Lion’s Arch isn’t technically a racial city. Each character can have more than 2 crafting professions by use of a gem store item. There are more than 3 elite skills per class, including racial skills.

However, why is having an equal/close to equal number of skills/maps/other things bad?

Doesn’t count because it is not symmetrical?

I think you’re all looking at my specifics. The general feel of the game is Perfect Symmetry Among All Races, Plot Elements, And Game Modes. it makes it claustrophobic and unstable.

@RoseofGilead the idea that you can spend 10 dollars to add an extra crafting slot is not a point in Anets favor

In addition to all the flaws in this argument already mentioned there has only been 1 expansion released and the next one is only a rumor at this point so I don’t see how you can say they’re all exactly the same.

For all we know the next one will be totally different to HoT.

As for a lot of the other stuff you mentioned where there are similarities between professions (like the number of utility skills) I think it’s part of the attempts to make all professions balanced so none is objectively better than the others.

Although it’s hard to judge when you’ve got things like engineer utility skills which are basically 5 skills in 1.

Alex Shatter.7956:

@RoseofGilead the idea that you can spend 10 dollars to add an extra crafting slot is not a point in Anets favor

I don’t see it as a point for or against Anet. Since the game encourages playing alts and has a shared bank and material storage, you basically have multiple character slots to do all of the crafting disciplines without buying a single thing from the gem store.

Example problem 1: Chronomancers NEED to have 4 utility wells. Each well needs to last 3 seconds and give a bonus at the end. Well of Precognition was overpowered, and they couldn’t figure out how to balance it, so instead of altering it’s duration to like, 1 or 2 seconds or something, they made it give 3 ticks of aegis (wtf?)

Alex Shatter.7956:

THE PLOT is built on 1 pact of 3 organizations: power, magic, and stealth. They fight 5 dragons- one of each element. Each dragon has their own type of minion, and own type of general. There are 5 cities, exactly one for each race. Each race has about 4-5 territories. Each expansion pack is exactly the same, as a result.

We are fighting 6 dragons, not 5.
5 cities that we can go now.
Charr have 3 cities, Black Citadel is the home of the Iron Legion, Blood Legion have a city in the Charr homelands and the exactly location of the Ash legion city is unknown.
Well … you can’t say much about “each expansion pack is exactly the same” when we only had 1 …

Alex Shatter.7956:

THE GAME MECHANICS: each professions needs exactly 16 utility skills of 4 types, 3 elite skills, and an offhand / mainhand. Each character can have up to 2 crafting professions. When elite specs came out, every specialization got 1) a new utility skill type 2) one elite skill 3) one new weapon. Each profession needed to be balanced for 3 game types. No wonder the profession balance in this game is awful.

Devs try to add same amount of tools for every class and you think that is what makes balance hard?

Alex Shatter.7956:

Can we break up the Obsessive Compulsive Disorder levels of symmetry and repetition? Even when new content and armor is released, it has to be in the standardized Black Lion Ticket system.

Sure it is in the BLT, that is how they make money …

Alex Shatter.7956:

At the moment GW2 just feels so plastic and factory made. What happened to individually-placed balancing and game design? Why is everything made in perfect geometric shapes? No game mode feels unique. End of rant.

Because that way every class is given the same opportunities.
Also they balance in different ways, like eng and ele have less weapons because their utilities gives many more weapon skills.
Also, they individually balance a lot, changing numbers and even mechanics of specific skills, like when they changed the ranger’s healing skill “we heal as one”, it was not only number balance, they added a new boon share mechanic and nothing else was needed to be changed, other healing skills kept the same, just like the other shout type skills

REVISED ARGUMENT:

Thesis (like im in University again!): Anet relies too much on a “symmetry algorithm” that prioritizes making each profession and plot mechanic symmetrical or balanced over actual gameplay value. There are many instances were they could break symmetry in 1) skill types 2) plot mechanics 3) weapon types and 4) weapon updates and get a better result.

EXAMPLE 1: I main an elementalist. I love the it. I get upset, though, because I almost never use the Glyphs or half of the conjures. I would much rather have 6 cantrips and 2 glyphs. Or even 1 arcane skill and 3 glyphs. Or perhaps glyphs that have different uses. I don’t think the 4 arcane, 4 glyph, 4 cantrip, 4 conjure is the most efficient way to balance it.

EXAMPLE 2: I think the PvE and PvP balance is iffy. They balance the entire profession for PvP instead of thinking of different game modes. Modified skills for each game mode would be nice.

EXAMPLE 3: I like that there are multiple cities, but the idea that there is a racial city of about the same size is a bit unrealistic. I don’t think the idea that you can choose from 5 races and have exaclty the same plot is the best way for having unique play throughs. Wouldn’t it be more interesting if the Char and Humans could start in the same cities? A lot of good social commentry and plot weaving could be made in those mixed, imperfect scenarios that I think Anet is overlooking.

EXAMPLE 4: Why are all chronomancer wells exactly 3 seconds? Well of Precogition could be made to be 2 seconds, which would make it less OP and not completely kill it. Why is alacrity given out at 2 seconds per well for each well? Perhaps well of calamity, which is used less frequenly, could give 4 seconds of alacrity.

I just think the structure of balancing and plot weaving is blocky and overly perfect.

EXAMPLE 1: YOU would like 6 cantrips and 2 glyphs, how about the player that would prefer 5 glyphs and 3 cantrips? What would be your idea to guarantee a fair number of skills, independent of the playstyle?

EXAMPLE 2: I agree, that is a big issue we have in our current balancing.

EXAMPLE 3: Could be a good idea, but oh well, now it is too late.

EXAMPLE 4: That particular skill line (mesmer wells) probably was coded in a certain way where the effect is tied to the animation, so now they are tied to it, but that is an exception, not a rule.

What about weapons

Oh this post reminds me of a character on the Soul Eater anime/manga who was obsessed with symmetry

Have you seen how many lopsided armor are in game? They don’t like symmetry at all.

thats a dumb thing to say

asurans have 2 citys and neither of them are symmetrical

• One example of ANet asymmetry: at launch, and still, some professions don’t have the same number of skills across skill types. Player reaction? “Why don’t we have an Elite for wells?” and the like.
• If one race had more of anything than the other races, likely player reaction: “Why does race X get twice as many Y as the other races?”

So, why does Anet provide as much symmetry as they do? If they don’t, the consumer base — ever alert for any perceived inequality or favoritism — would lay into them for it.

The races aren’t perfectly symmetrical. Have you ever compared the personal district for humans and Sylvari? The human area is substantially larger with far more interesting locations and empty houses you can walk into.

The argument lacks symmetry.