Guild Wars 2

Ashen.2907:

I am however debunking claims that have no merit.

You’re trying, but you’re not doing a very good job.

It doesn’t matter how many people on how many forums you ask

So you’re saying that your opinion is greater than that of countless other people?

(there are forums out there for people who think the earth is flat).

Which are entirely irrelevant.

If people are willing to pay a certain price for a non-necessity then it is correctly priced.

That’s a very poor definition, though.

Would people pay $10.00 for a mining pick? Yes.
Would people pay $5.00 for a mining pick? Yes, but probably more would.
Would people pay $15.00 for a mining pick? Probably yes, but probably less would.

So according to your logic, all three of those prices would be “correctly priced”, despite the fact that one is cheaper and one is more expensive than the average?

What is the correct price for something ?

A price at which an item can turn a profit for you yet still be available to more people. By pricing items higher than what could turn a profit, thereby cutting out anybody who is not willing to pay that price, they’re essentially saying that people who cannot afford those items are not as important as the people who can. When 2 million people buy your game but you give preference in special items to those who can afford or are willing to keep paying more, then there’s problems.

IMO, the best way to go is subscription with everything in the game accessible to all without someone needing to pay even further. If your money is coming from subscriptions, you can’t just rely on making a pretty outfit or flashy tool or shiny shinies to get you money. You have to make a product worth paying for. You have to make sure your customers are happy. Something ArenaNet is failing to do by not even giving a hint as to what big things they’re working on that apparently require hundreds of people all being excited and worky when apparently the living story only requires about 20 and that’s really all we’re getting for content.

You mentioned maximum accessibility for customers….which of course requires that an item be free. Is that your definition ?

No I didn’t. You’re the only one that mentioned maximum accessibility, so I’ll thank you to not project your own wording as my argument. What I said was a ratio at which they could still turn a profit while making it more accessible.

The arguments over price are interesting, but I think they’re missing something important: Fun factor.

Have you ever had to do a double take in GW2 because you saw someone wearing a really awesome armor? Or come across someone with a musical instrument that not only knows how to play it, but is doing so well? What about a “How to Dance” group having some fun? These are moments where someone else spending money in the gem store makes your game play more enjoyable.

This is an important concept, that person A can make the game better for person B by spending gems. On these items, ANet wants to keep the price lower, so the game becomes richer by having them around. How much lower? Hard to say, but setting the price for maximum financial gain on that item may not be the best plan in the long run.

Okay, back to your discussion.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

The funny part of this stuff stuff is, there are only three possibilities:

1. ANet has many employees and is very inefficient in producing stuff (which many got the impression from what we get with the LS as content)

2. ANet is using most of its staff to produce an expansion, which is at least a year away (an expansion would need an elder dragon as hype factor and we are still short Mordi, ANet would not release two elder dragons in less than a year)

3. ANet works on a new GW game, rendering GW2 more or less futile.

Pick one, but honestly, all three options suck. Years with near to no new content? AT least another year with near to no new content? Waiting years for GW3?

That stuff really sounds amazing!

First of all, the argument that “another elder dragon” is the only thing you think an expansion could be about is a bad argument.

Why can’t an expansion be about fighting our way to Elona?

Anyway, as my post history is largely positive, your post history has shown your colors. Why should anyone believe someone who doesn’t like the game?

Astralporing.1957:

Donari.5237:

Keep in mind that the reporter may very well know more than is in the article, but have agreed to keep mum as a condition of viewing the “stuff.” So the article can’t be detailed yet remains positive and excited.

Well, since the reporter didn’t actually say anything new, there was no point to the article at all. Beyond, of course, Anet trying to send a message “see? we’re working! Scout’s honor! No, can’t tell you more”. Seriously, if that was all they were going to tell us, there was no reason to invite any journalist. They could have written a post on forums (and actually there was a post like that made by Gaile lately). The effect would have been (and was) the same.

The part I quoted is a tiny aside at the end of a very long article. I certainly didn’t get the impression Anet was telling us this. I got the impression that the author of the article saw a lot of stuff being worked on, heard about stuff he’s not allowed to talk about, and wanted to reassure people that those who are saying that nothing is being worked on are wrong. Or that there are less than fifty people working at Anet.

The point is he didn’t write an article about what I quoted, he added an aside in an article that I found interesting enough to quote.

The people who say these things have no evidence at all. Zero. Zilch. None. Some might well just be trolls. So when someone has a counterpoint, and I produce it, what’s the big deal?

What you are you really trying to defend here? The right of people to say completely ridiculous stuff that they can’t back up at all, or my right to respond to it.

Filaha.1678:

So you’re saying that your opinion is greater than that of countless other people?

Not at all. I am not expressing an opinion here.

Filaha.1678:

That’s a very poor definition, though.

It is the definition.

Filaha.1678:

Would people pay $10.00 for a mining pick? Yes.
Would people pay $5.00 for a mining pick? Yes, but probably more would.
Would people pay $15.00 for a mining pick? Probably yes, but probably less would.

So according to your logic, all three of those prices would be “correctly priced”, despite the fact that one is cheaper and one is more expensive than the average?

Not my logic. For what it is worth any price will be both too high, too low, and just right depending on the individual consumer. Since this is so subjective for the consumer the only objective way to determine the correct price for anything is maximum revenue/profit generation. If the mining pick would generate more revenue at $5 than at any of the other price points then the others would be overpriced. If the $15 mining pick generates more revenue than would be the case at the other price points then it is the correct price.

Filaha.1678:

When 2 million people buy your game but you give preference in special items to those who can afford or are willing to keep paying more, then there’s problems.

The only way this could be avoided would be for everything to be free after the initial purchase. Even a sub fee violates this principle as those who can afford the box cost, but not the sub fee, will get less than those who can afford to pay more every month.

Filaha.1678:

IMO, the best way to go is subscription with everything in the game accessible to all without someone needing to pay even further. If your money is coming from subscriptions, you can’t just rely on making a pretty outfit or flashy tool or shiny shinies to get you money. You have to make a product worth paying for. You have to make sure your customers are happy. Something ArenaNet is failing to do by not even giving a hint as to what big things they’re working on that apparently require hundreds of people all being excited and worky when apparently the living story only requires about 20 and that’s really all we’re getting for content.

I still think that BtP with cash shop has potential as a business model but Anet’s handling of it has definitely eroded my belief. I do not have a problem with paying a subscription, but also have no doubt that even sub games will generally have cash shops going forward.

I tend to agree with you on this with the possible exception of the fact that what is, “worth paying for,” is very subjective. I see a lot of potential in a cash shop with large numbers of items that each appeal to different individuals/play styles/etc in order to, hopefully, have something for everyone. I enjoyed knowing that my gold purchases (before I decided that the game was no longer “worth” my money) might very well be helping someone who could not otherwise afford something from the gemstore to be able to buy that special thing they wanted so much.

Filaha.1678:

No I didn’t. You’re the only one that mentioned maximum accessibility, so I’ll thank you to not project your own wording as my argument. What I said was a ratio at which they could still turn a profit while making it more accessible.

Filaha.1678:

maximum profit over accessibility to customers? Right?

My apologies. It seemed that this statement referenced maximum for both sides of the equation. It was not my intention to strawman you.

I do wish to apologize for being excessively confrontational in the course of this debate. I meant no offense and wish you a happy Thanksgiving.

munkiman.3068:

Gene Archer.8560:

Maybe when you start being fair and actually stop defending ANet 90% of the time.

Vayne, seriously. Tell me how the revelation that ANet is “working” on “stuff” actually helps anything?

Okay, so now we know, beyond the shadow of a doubt (but not really), that ANet is actually working on stuff. We now know that people who say “ANet isn’t actually working on anything” are wrong (maybe). Because someone was given a tour of the ANet buildings and they saw “stuff” going on.

And yet, the perception that ANet is sitting around twiddling their thumbs is going to persist, well past the existence of this thread, because of things like the information blackout the community is still being put through.

You claim that all I want to do is argue, but what about yourself? The only reason I can see for you posting such a thread is so you can jump up and down going “See, see! I was right you guys! ANet is doing things! This other guy says so as well!”

Well, congrats, then, Vayne! You are right and they are wrong! ANet is soooo working on stuff! Huzzah for stuff!

You yourself admitted that the article doesn’t really mean anything, so I wonder why you’re trying so kitten hard to defend it as anything meaningful.

First off, big fan, since the original of Gene and his rational opinions.

Again though, we are back to communications and managing expectations with this thread and the 1000’s of others. While we have facebook and twitter posts trying to promote hype, we still see responses that this is either not enough or they aren’t addressing “insert favorite game mode here” or “bugs” or NPE or Traits or etc…

They push esports, yet the game mode isn’t even close to ready for it. (sorry Josh, but no). Yes, lets pass out 50k (or w/e) to winners of a basically kitten mode, that will help.

They push LS yet people don’t feel enthralled with its “2 week release” schedule, while the dev team scrambles to keep up.

And, well that’s it. this is what we get, people that support the game and have enough inclination to post on the forums, feeedback? Yes kudos on the wardrobe… Kudos on semi challenging content with SilverWastes, yes Kudos on Glints lair. All well received content, now get your faces out of you’re friggen spreadsheets.

We get it Vayne, touting how “look guys they are working on stuff” and you wonder why this is met with skepticism and trolls, shocker…

Please try and be as realistic as you seem to be expecting the nay sayers to be.

I am realistic. Do you even READ these forums.

There are far more unrealistic posts saying the game is dying, no one is playing, Anet has bareliy anyone working there, Anet is working on nothing, than there are people who think an expansion or something of the type is probably coming.

The people I’m replying to, that I posted this to refute, have no evidence at all to back them up. Will you have the bottle to post in their threads and say so, or just my threads because you happen to dislike the direction the game has gone in.

I’m sorry but I recognize bias when I see it. All I did here was post a paragraph from an article that made an aside that refutes dozens of forums posts made in the path months.

I’m not sure why that threatens anyone.

Palador.2170:

The arguments over price are interesting, but I think they’re missing something important: Fun factor.

Have you ever had to do a double take in GW2 because you saw someone wearing a really awesome armor? Or come across someone with a musical instrument that not only knows how to play it, but is doing so well? What about a “How to Dance” group having some fun? These are moments where someone else spending money in the gem store makes your game play more enjoyable.

This is an important concept, that person A can make the game better for person B by spending gems. On these items, ANet wants to keep the price lower, so the game becomes richer by having them around. How much lower? Hard to say, but setting the price for maximum financial gain on that item may not be the best plan in the long run.

Okay, back to your discussion.

Agreed.

This point is part of the maximum financial gain determination and is an example of why marketing can be as much an art form as a science because intuition can play such an important role in this aspect.

Ashen.2907:

Not at all. I am not expressing an opinion here.

So your claim is that it is fact that the items are not overpriced because they’re making maximum profit based on people who would buy the items?

Fair enough, then I assume you have evidence that they’re making maximum profit off of the current price:consumer ratio. Please present this evidence.

The only way this could be avoided would be for everything to be free after the initial purchase. Even a sub fee violates this principle as those who can afford the box cost, but not the sub fee, will get less than those who can afford to pay more every month.

If people can afford the box cost but not the subscription fee, then they’re not going to be playing the game, therefore they are not part of the comparison. Nobody would be getting preferential treatment out of the players of the game just for having more money.

I still think that BtP with cash shop has potential as a business model but Anet’s handling of it has definitely eroded my belief. I do not have a problem with paying a subscription, but also have no doubt that even sub games will generally have cash shops going forward.

Potential, yes. But that potential can easily be ruined if the cash shop becomes too much of a focus, by which I mean the majority of “new content” development goes towards that. It’s a very delicate balance between “sustaining with some profit” and “hey look how much extra stuff you can buy for this game that we already charged you for!” And Guild Wars 2 did a nosedive towards the latter.

I think it also sits harder on GW2 for the fact that there is no real stat gear grind, making “things that look nice” pretty much the entire thing you are aiming to acquire in the game. Games with a stat gear grind could get away with more vanity items in cash shops because they’re not affecting the acquisition of the main goal. Not to mention the (to… y’know, get back to the topic of the thread) lack of actual information about anything content-wise just makes it look more like that’s really their major focus. I mean, for all we know, they really ARE planning something massive that will totally justify the time spent waiting to show that the cash shop isn’t the end stop for your shiny new thing needs, but for all we’ve seen, they’re not.

As such, I can admit that possibly my view of the price point is coloured by my own view about the price (again, if you buy the game on one of their numerous sales, the Mine-R-Tron alone is over 1/2 the price of the Heroic edition of the game) being rather steep in comparison to content that is not paid for through the cash shop. I probably would have less problem with the prices if I felt that the money was going towards development of something other than more things to get money.

I tend to agree with you on this with the possible exception of the fact that what is, “worth paying for,” is very subjective. I see a lot of potential in a cash shop with large numbers of items that each appeal to different individuals/play styles/etc in order to, hopefully, have something for everyone.

Judging from this thread and other threads as well as my own empirical knowledge through interactions in game and out of, ArenaNet isn’t doing a very good job at providing a game that’s particularly worth funding. I haven’t bought anything off the cash shop since the Count/Noble (whatever) outfit that subjected my ladies’ legs to an impenetrable void. Or to be more accurate, I haven’t paid real money for it. I’ve been riding off of my gold and others’ cash.

My apologies. It seemed that this statement referenced maximum for both sides of the equation. It was not my intention to strawman you.

Fair enough.

I do wish to apologize for being excessively confrontational in the course of this debate. I meant no offense and wish you a happy Thanksgiving.

No worries. I don’t tend to take offense from words, and if I felt you were being too harsh, I would have just stopped talking. Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

This thread….sooo much STUFF!!!

Isn’t it strange that when the rage and the anger of the gamers is on its peak
“someone” just goes to A-Net and gets invited to a studio tour where he
“witnesses” all of the cool “stuff” but can’t tell anyone what it is.

Can someone remember what happened last time when anger and rage were
on a peak ???
Right an interview popped out of nowhere talking about Legendary Crafting,
new skills, new classes and new weapons.

I know GW2 is catering to people who complain about feeding cows
but at least try to handle the people in the forum like regular people

Filaha.1678:

Ashen.2907:

Not at all. I am not expressing an opinion here.

So your claim is that it is fact that the items are not overpriced because they’re making maximum profit based on people who would buy the items?

Fair enough, then I assume you have evidence that they’re making maximum profit off of the current price:consumer ratio. Please present this evidence.

Ashen.2907:

What one person might choose to call a cash grab another might point out is a company producing a product that people might choose to purchase.

Something is not overpriced if its current pricing…

The if is important there.

I do not know what method(s) anet is using to test their pricing but I am sure…or at least I hope…they are doing so rather than just picking a number out of the air and running with it. It is entirely possible that lowering their prices would generate enough of a unit sales increase to more than offset the per unit loss in revenue. If so then the current prices would be considered overpriced. In theory gemstore items could even be underpriced. Its possible, at least in theory, that some of the items would see a revenue increase through price increases.

Please note that I am not arguing whether or not items are currently overpriced but rather that we, without access to numbers that only Anet has, do not know. Hence the if in my sentence.

“Stuff”, huh?

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

The funny part of this stuff stuff is, there are only three possibilities:

1. ANet has many employees and is very inefficient in producing stuff (which many got the impression from what we get with the LS as content)

2. ANet is using most of its staff to produce an expansion, which is at least a year away (an expansion would need an elder dragon as hype factor and we are still short Mordi, ANet would not release two elder dragons in less than a year)

3. ANet works on a new GW game, rendering GW2 more or less futile.

Pick one, but honestly, all three options suck. Years with near to no new content? AT least another year with near to no new content? Waiting years for GW3?

That stuff really sounds amazing!

First of all, the argument that “another elder dragon” is the only thing you think an expansion could be about is a bad argument.

Why can’t an expansion be about fighting our way to Elona?

Anyway, as my post history is largely positive, your post history has shown your colors. Why should anyone believe someone who doesn’t like the game?

GW2 is all about the elder dragons. People expect to fight one in the expansion. ANet has to cater towards this expectation.

People hated Scarlet, she was no dragon. She could never live up to the expectations. She was no real threat no matter what she did, because you know, the dragons are the real threat.

So Elona would be all nice and stuff, but without an elder dragon as main villain, the expansion would not sell as well as with one. I’m fairly sure most people playing GW2 don’t even know what Elona is. But they know we have to kill those dragons or all is lost.

From a marketing point of view it stays true, for an expansion to be a (bigger) success it will need an elder dragon.

From a maketing point of view, you cannot release two main villains in short order for several reasons.

So no expansion to come soon. Whatever this stuff is, we will not see it in the next 12 monthes unless it is more of the same old same LS.

Kartel.2561:

I won’t presume on how much I reflect the community at large. But speaking only for myself, I can say this.

I’ve spent more on this game so far than I ever did on GW1. I did so because I believed in the game and the dev and wanted to be as supportive as I was financially comfortable enough to be. I was excited and really felt this game was “going places”. I had that excitement and faith based on how quickly they put out so much content in GW1. And with such a bigger team this time around, I absolutely expected no less for this. But we’ve gotten MUCH less so far. This is just objectively true. I like the LS enough, but the scope of it has been minuscule compared to the Cantha and Elona we got in the same time frame in the past.

I have no doubt Anet is “working on stuff”, and hey, maybe sometime in the next decade we’ll even get to see some of it (and hopefully it will even contain the things that we / I have been wanting all this time).

But my excitement and faith is largely faded by now. My money spending in this game is indefinitely “on hold” (while I have started spending time and money in other games like AA). I look forward to the next GW2 patch, and am keeping up with the LS. But the story progression is always so small and brief. And once I’m caught up on it, I don’t feel like I have any meaningful activities to participate in.

I like the themepark story content, but it always just “runs out” so fast, and then I have to wait so long until there’s more. I also like sandbox activities that feel like they matter ..but sadly GW2 has next to nothing in that regard.

So they’ve gone full-themepark mode, but so far have failed to actually deliver very much of it. Just a tiny bit here and there. And while I’m waiting for those story updates, what else is there to do? Just grind x, y, or z endlessly for no particular reason. Nothing has any consequences, nothing “at stake” to care about. Nothing has any sense of importance. No activity I can be part of that seems to matter, for myself, others, or Tyria. And because of that, after I’ve spent a couple hours catching up on the LS, the rest of my time and money can be better spent elsewhere. I’ve invested more money into this game than any other before, but I don’t feel I’ve gotten much “personal investment” in return and I thought I would have by now.

As long as Anet keeps updating the game, I suppose I’ll keep up with it. But I really didn’t expect to end up so disaffected with this franchise. It hasn’t turned out at all how I hoped it would by now and I just don’t feel that personal investment and attachment that I had wanted to. I’ve loved Tyria since 2005 and it does sadden me to admit things have gotten rather sour.

I wish I knew what this “stuff” is that’s being worked on, and I wish it would be everything I ever wanted (or at least a good bit of it). But I don’t know what it is, when it will be, or how much I’ll still care when/if it finally comes. I’m unsatisfied with the state of the game so far, and all the “question marks” about its future don’t give much re-assurance.

This.
I feel exacly the same way.
+1

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

The funny part of this stuff stuff is, there are only three possibilities:

1. ANet has many employees and is very inefficient in producing stuff (which many got the impression from what we get with the LS as content)

2. ANet is using most of its staff to produce an expansion, which is at least a year away (an expansion would need an elder dragon as hype factor and we are still short Mordi, ANet would not release two elder dragons in less than a year)

3. ANet works on a new GW game, rendering GW2 more or less futile.

Pick one, but honestly, all three options suck. Years with near to no new content? AT least another year with near to no new content? Waiting years for GW3?

That stuff really sounds amazing!

First of all, the argument that “another elder dragon” is the only thing you think an expansion could be about is a bad argument.

Why can’t an expansion be about fighting our way to Elona?

Anyway, as my post history is largely positive, your post history has shown your colors. Why should anyone believe someone who doesn’t like the game?

GW2 is all about the elder dragons. People expect to fight one in the expansion. ANet has to cater towards this expectation.

People hated Scarlet, she was no dragon. She could never live up to the expectations. She was no real threat no matter what she did, because you know, the dragons are the real threat.

So Elona would be all nice and stuff, but without an elder dragon as main villain, the expansion would not sell as well as with one. I’m fairly sure most people playing GW2 don’t even know what Elona is. But they know we have to kill those dragons or all is lost.

From a marketing point of view it stays true, for an expansion to be a (bigger) success it will need an elder dragon.

From a maketing point of view, you cannot release two main villains in short order for several reasons.

So no expansion to come soon. Whatever this stuff is, we will not see it in the next 12 monthes unless it is more of the same old same LS.

I disagree. If Anet came out with the entire continent Elona, as long as it had a cool “end boss” I don’t think you’d see hoards of protests.

Some of us are all dragoned out in fact. After Rift, Skyrim, Dragon Age, and every other stupid game that focuses on dragons, dragons were the one design decision I never liked. I don’t find them interesting and I’m sure there are others like me.

And I know for sure there are tons of people who would welcome an expansion set in Elona or dare I say Cantha, even if there wasn’t a dragon in sight.

Vayne.8563:

Some of us are all dragoned out in fact. After Rift, Skyrim, Dragon Age, and every other stupid game that focuses on dragons, dragons were the one design decision I never liked. I don’t find them interesting and I’m sure there are others like me.

And I know for sure there are tons of people who would welcome an expansion set in Elona or dare I say Cantha, even if there wasn’t a dragon in sight.

Agreed. Dragons are a bit overdone in fantasy games. I don’t mind them in GW2 but I they are not a check in the plus column for me either.

Would I love to journey through Elona? Yes. Do I care about the elder dragons much, after Zhaitan being a fair disappointment? No. Does it matter what I think in this case? No.

Metrics, the new friend of ANet and reason for the NPE, will tell you different though. Most players playing GW2 have never played GW and lore in GW2 about Elone is very, very limited. So most GW2 players do not know and/or care about Elona.

And while you grow tired of Dragons, this game is all about them. So people expect dragons in a game about dragons.

So why market an expansion with a region that most people do not care about, without the main threat setup as storyline for GW2?

It is like advertising apples in the first place, delicious apples like the ones of Tybalt, but then out of a sudden, you are offering pears. They might be as delicious as Tybalt’s apples, but people just didn’t come for pears, they came for apples. So people will be disappointed.

Not rocket science.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Would I love to journey through Elona? Yes. Do I care about the elder dragons much, after Zhaitan being a fair disappointment? No. Does it matter what I think in this case? No.

Metrics, the new friend of ANet and reason for the NPE, will tell you different though. Most players playing GW2 have never played GW and lore in GW2 about Elone is very, very limited. So most GW2 players do not know and/or care about Elona.

And while you grow tired of Dragons, this game is all about them. So people expect dragons in a game about dragons.

So why market an expansion with a region that most people do not care about, without the main threat setup as storyline for GW2?

It is like advertising apples in the first place, delicious apples like the ones of Tybalt, but then out of a sudden, you are offering pears. They might be as delicious as Tybalt’s apples, but people just didn’t come for pears, they came for apples. So people will be disappointed.

Not rocket science.

It’s not rocket science. A lot of people starting this game have no idea it’s about dragons. We had a year and a half of Scarlet and she was in every ad and she’s clearly not a dragon. I don’t think the advertising was heavily focused on dragons at all.

Yes, the lore does talk a lot about dragons but those familiar with the lore are also familiar with Elona most likely.

Where as the average player who comes to an MMO, probably doesn’t know all that much about it in the first place.

If an expansion was announced with new classes, new races, new skills and new weapons, most people wouldn’t care if there were a dragon or not.

It’s not rocket science.

There is a fiery dragon on the cover of every GW2 box. The logo, ever looked at it and thought, “Wow, that looks like a burning swan, I bet GW2 is about burning swans!”? Nope.

All trailers were about the rise of Zaithan (besides the Manifesto, but yeah, different topic), your better half of your personal story is about Zhaitan, Scarlet only existed to awake an elder dragon and people heavily disliked Scarlet in the first place. All of LS2 is about an elder dragon.

This game is about the elder dragons. Period.

An expansion without an elder dragon would make it a joke. I’d love to see the forums if it was announced. Burning swans everywhere…

Yes, yes, there’s a fiery dragon on a box, and we fight a dragon. We fight several dragons. People who bought the game and fight the dragon will assume it’s about dragons. And then they come out with an expansion and make, get this, a new box. And voila! A new experience after the box with the dragon.

Silly argument is silly.

Thank you OP. This single post does more to prove my point than any other post on the forums.

A person with absolutely not proof of anything, thinks he knows what the majority of the playbase believes.

It really is gratifying that you could illustrate so precisely the type of posts I talk about all the time.

I think no one can talk for the majority because no one knows what most people think.

Zaklex.6308:

P.S. – Valve doesn’t talk and no one complains.

Oh, yeah, because Valve Time is a term with soo much positive meaning[/sarcasm].

Zoid.2568:

I think the majority on this forum and playerbase don’t expect ArenaNet to deliver any amazing content like an expansion or a huge content update. Some guy said ArenaNet are working on “stuff”. And? Show a tiny fracture of that stuff and we might believe you. Just a little hint.

I hope they do eventually.

I am starting to lose a bit of faith they ever will though.

Personally (duh) I prefer large content drops over the small bits here and there. Seems like a large injection of cash would do the company some good and maybe bring some of the player base back as well. I know several people who have moved on to other games because they though the game world would never grow.

Obviously they were wrong but not by much considering the maps we got thus far.

Vayne.8563:

Yes, yes, there’s a fiery dragon on a box, and we fight a dragon. We fight several dragons. People who bought the game and fight the dragon will assume it’s about dragons. And then they come out with an expansion and make, get this, a new box. And voila! A new experience after the box with the dragon.

Silly argument is silly.

The whole argument in this thread is silly.

We are talking about stuff, stuff that noone but ANet knows what it is. Therefore it is all speculation, which is silly. You started a silly discussion so to say.

Stuff means nothing as long as it is not getting real. Otherwise I would just start getting rich by doing stuff. I will sell stuff and get good money. I will buy more stuff with the money I made with stuff.

This is absurd. When the stuff gets real, we will have a chance to talk about it, but for now, this stuff is nothing but hot air.

I will tell you a story about stuff:

Blizzard developed their new MMO, known as Titan. They spend more money and DEV time into this project than ANet can ever dream to spend on GW2.

For six years or more, they have produced stuff, tons of it. Everyone that was part of the project worked hard.

What did the players get of all this stuff? None, nada, niente. Nothing. That stuff was just that, stuff. It didn’t get real for the players. Millions of dollars of stuff, thousands and thousands of work hours of stuff, and nothing.

Why getting excited about the stuff ANet is working on? This will just create another bubble…

I’m not telling people they have to spend gems or they should feel bad. I’m saying that the game had a lot of content that was certainly worth the initial $60. You got a complete game for $60. Without any living story or seasonal releases, there was still tons of content ON RELEASE that gave you bang for your buck.

Compare the amount of content in GW2 to the amount of content in other games that cost $60. Assassin’s Creed games for instance. I played a lot of those games but I finished them all within the 40-ish hours of gameplay they advertised on the box.

Anyway, regardless of gem purchases, people complaining on these forums need to get some perspective. First off, they are a small majority. Most players aren’t coming on these forums to discuss things. Second, this game is made and iterated in an attempt to appeal to a wide player base. If you look at the complaints flying around on these forums, many of the demands are conflicting with eachother. The mount vs. no mount argument is particularly divided. :P

The gem discussion has been had, but people still need to stop talking all melodramatic like they’re on a soap opera.

“Oh, my stars, I’ve “lost faith” in ANet!" flips open fold-out fan and wafts furiously

“ANet has “betrayed” us!" unfriends ANet on Facebook and deletes photos of ANet from album titled ‘BFFs’.

Stop with all this faith and betrayel and belief nonsense. ANet is not a religion! And if you think it is then heed the teachings of the six human gods and optionally disavow the undeserving usurper Kormir!

Let’s review how to offer CONSTRUCTIVE feedback:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I will tell you a story about stuff:

Blizzard developed their new MMO, known as Titan. They spend more money and DEV time into this project than ANet can ever dream to spend on GW2.

For six years or more, they have produced stuff, tons of it. Everyone that was part of the project worked hard.

What did the players get of all this stuff? None, nada, niente. Nothing. That stuff was just that, stuff. It didn’t get real for the players. Millions of dollars of stuff, thousands and thousands of work hours of stuff, and nothing.

Why getting excited about the stuff ANet is working on? This will just create another bubble…

If you want to read this thread as I’m trying to excite people over the stuff, then you’ve obviously misread the thread.

This is ONLY an answer to people who are saying NOTHING is being worked on and that Anet has less than 50 employees. That’s what this thread is about.

Anything else you’ve brought with you is your own thought process and has nothing to do with what I’m saying.

Mo Mo.1947:

“Oh, my stars, I’ve “lost faith” in ANet!" flips open fold-out fan and wafts furiously

Stop with all this faith and betrayel and belief nonsense. ANet is not a religion! And if you think it is then heed the teachings of the six human gods and optionally disavow the undeserving usurper Kormir!

faith noun \?f?th\
: strong belief or trust in someone or something

Not sure about everyone else but that’s how I meant it.

As far as Kormir goes… I could not agree more. Kills the false god!

Zoid.2568:

I think the majority on this forum and playerbase don’t expect ArenaNet to deliver any amazing content like an expansion or a huge content update. Some guy said ArenaNet are working on “stuff”. And? Show a tiny fracture of that stuff and we might believe you. Just a little hint.

Got any proof for that majority part? Wait, you don’t, this is just one of those threads that are headed to the trash can. Maybe next time you post try posting something that
offers some CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, yours has none, just exaggeration and nonsense. Or maybe a thread that promotes further discussion, yours doesn’t because it offers no arguments or actual points for discussion.

maddoctor.2738:

Zoid.2568:

I think the majority on this forum and playerbase don’t expect ArenaNet to deliver any amazing content like an expansion or a huge content update. Some guy said ArenaNet are working on “stuff”. And? Show a tiny fracture of that stuff and we might believe you. Just a little hint.

Got any proof for that majority part? Wait, you don’t, this is just one of those threads that are headed to the trash can. Maybe next time you post try posting something that
offers some CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, yours has none, just exaggeration and nonsense. Or maybe a thread that promotes further discussion, yours doesn’t because it offers no arguments or actual points for discussion.

It’s also worth noting that majority of people on this forum will always been disgruntled complainers because most people only visit the forums when they want to complain about something.

I’am quiet sceptical about this. I’am not saying i believe they’re not working on it, but if in the end it turns out that they’re not working on it, then i won’t have much to say about this except, not like i expected any better. The “stuff” they’re working on doesn’t really mean anything, obviously they’re working on stuff, the real question here, is this stuff an expansion or something comparable, or just future episodes and feature packs etc. In one of his recent videos WP said that he believes that the reason that they’re not telling anything about expansion is not to make players think: “oh, i might then put off GW2 for now, untill expansion comes out, then i’am gonna play”. … How do you even come up with something like that. Imo it’s a worst case of wishful thinking. They might be quiet about that because they started to work on it not that long ago, so it’s in the early stages of development, that’s what i think. I would love to be wrong in the end, but for now there’s no reason to think otherwise or to believe in something.

If Arenanet were actually working on an expansion, they would let players know.

The only reason to remain silent about something like an expansion is if they aren’t working on one.

Think about it.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If Arenanet were actually working on an expansion, they would let players know.

The only reason to remain silent about something like an expansion is if they aren’t working on one.

Think about it.

I have thought about it. Do you know what announcing anything like an expansion has a bit of science to it. You announce it too early and it’s bad for business. People get a buzz and then a lot of people lose interest over time. Also, sometimes there’s other news in the industry that takes away from your launch. The WoW expansion for example.

When SWToR launched, Rift went dark. No ads, no annoucements, nothing. They knew they couldn’t compete with EA for advertising and so there was no point in putting at an announcement at a time when it would be overshadowed.

Think about it.

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If Arenanet were actually working on an expansion, they would let players know.

The only reason to remain silent about something like an expansion is if they aren’t working on one.

Think about it.

I have thought about it. Do you know what announcing anything like an expansion has a bit of science to it. You announce it too early and it’s bad for business. People get a buzz and then a lot of people lose interest over time. Also, sometimes there’s other news in the industry that takes away from your launch. The WoW expansion for example.

When SWToR launched, Rift went dark. No ads, no annoucements, nothing. They knew they couldn’t compete with EA for advertising and so there was no point in putting at an announcement at a time when it would be overshadowed.

Think about it.

Too early? Are we talking about the same game here?
If anything an expansion is long overdue.

Besides, Arenanet are the masters of stretching words like “soon” “its coming”
…so if they announced today, right now, that an expansion was coming soon, players would automatically expect to wait at least a year.

Arenanet could also simply say that “We plan to make an expansion for this game.” without giving any time frame.

The reason they don’t say that is because they probably don’t plan to make an expansion…. at least not until players voice their mind and start gathering the pitchforks.

Arenanet also advertises every single living story and update they pump out with youtube videos and trailers….. nothing about your publicity argument holds any water.

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If Arenanet were actually working on an expansion, they would let players know.

The only reason to remain silent about something like an expansion is if they aren’t working on one.

Think about it.

I have thought about it. Do you know what announcing anything like an expansion has a bit of science to it. You announce it too early and it’s bad for business. People get a buzz and then a lot of people lose interest over time. Also, sometimes there’s other news in the industry that takes away from your launch. The WoW expansion for example.

When SWToR launched, Rift went dark. No ads, no annoucements, nothing. They knew they couldn’t compete with EA for advertising and so there was no point in putting at an announcement at a time when it would be overshadowed.

Think about it.

I am. And it’s actually pretty dumb strategy. When your competition does something you can’t directly counter (like making a new game, or an expansion when you have none), it may not be a good strategy to put too much effort into looking for new players, that’s true. But that is precisely the moment when you need to persuade your current players that they should stay. Instead of, you know, going to the competition. Because once they are gone, you cannot hope they’ll ever come back.

And yet so far, Anet’s advertising “strategy” seemed to depend on all the other games failing. That’s not viable in the long run. Not even if that’s the only way you can compete.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If Arenanet were actually working on an expansion, they would let players know.

The only reason to remain silent about something like an expansion is if they aren’t working on one.

Think about it.

I have thought about it. Do you know what announcing anything like an expansion has a bit of science to it. You announce it too early and it’s bad for business. People get a buzz and then a lot of people lose interest over time. Also, sometimes there’s other news in the industry that takes away from your launch. The WoW expansion for example.

When SWToR launched, Rift went dark. No ads, no annoucements, nothing. They knew they couldn’t compete with EA for advertising and so there was no point in putting at an announcement at a time when it would be overshadowed.

Think about it.

I am. And it’s actually pretty dumb strategy. When your competition does something you can’t directly counter (like making a new game, or an expansion when you have none), it may not be a good strategy to put too much effort into looking for new players, that’s true. But that is precisely the moment when you need to persuade your current players that they should stay. Instead of, you know, going to the competition. Because once they are gone, you cannot hope they’ll ever come back.

And yet so far, Anet’s advertising “strategy” seemed to depend on all the other games failing. That’s not viable in the long run. Not even if that’s the only way you can compete.

You saying it’s a dumb strategy doesn’t make it dumb. It’s a well known and respected strategy for a reason.

Vayne.8563:

This is ONLY an answer to people who are saying NOTHING is being worked on and that Anet has less than 50 employees. That’s what this thread is about.

I haven’t seen anyone say that. Obviously, if ANet has employees, they’re working on something. Otherwise, where would “stuff” like the NPE come from?

dekou.6012:

Vayne.8563:

This is ONLY an answer to people who are saying NOTHING is being worked on and that Anet has less than 50 employees. That’s what this thread is about.

I haven’t seen anyone say that. Obviously, if ANet has employees, they’re working on something. Otherwise, where would “stuff” like the NPE come from?

Other people have seen people say it. I certainly have. You can doubt me if you want, but it’s been said, and more than once. Just as people have said Anet isn’t talking because they have nothing to talk about.

It’s just more hype, and sadly, more disappointment, because if it’s not new classes, zones, races, dungeons, pvp modes & maps, and anything else that players expect from a traditional expansion in the MMO genre, then it’s really not going to matter anyway.

More living story chapters, and gem store items, isn’t what the players who left, want more of.

But “stuff” could be anything….more restrictive Trait system. More grinding necessary. More really ugly skins that cost gems. More…well…stuff that no one outside of a seemingly few actually will like.

I mean, if Anet pushed out a steaming pile, there are some on these forums who would wax poetic about the wonderful job they’ve done. These are usually people who never take the opposing stance on any issue…hey, “Everything’s awesome!” right?

Frankly, I trust most of the well-thought out negative people before I trust the white knights. Call me a pessimist, but I am seeing a very negative pattern here with the things they have given us.

misterman.1530:

But “stuff” could be anything….more restrictive Trait system. More grinding necessary. More really ugly skins that cost gems. More…well…stuff that no one outside of a seemingly few actually will like.

I mean, if Anet pushed out a steaming pile, there are some on these forums who would wax poetic about the wonderful job they’ve done. These are usually people who never take the opposing stance on any issue…hey, “Everything’s awesome!” right?

Frankly, I trust most of the well-thought out negative people before I trust the white knights. Call me a pessimist, but I am seeing a very negative pattern here with the things they have given us.

It doesn’t really matter what stuff means. This post was refuting those who claimed Anet wasn’t working on anything but the living story, that they were milking the game before they closed it down. That they barely had anyone working there. There are plenty of those claims.

If you want to talk about what they’re making there are plenty of threads for that. I’m just linking something that seems to refute what some have said.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Too early? Are we talking about the same game here?
If anything an expansion is long overdue.

GW2 was released to a brand new market (China) less than 6 months ago. As of now they’ve shown that they want to keep their servers synced so it’s a bit too early for an expansion yet.

Also, judging by their “no tell” policy maybe they will announce their expansion a week before it is released, think about it, that’s how they do business lately…

I think it’ll be a month or two, before release, but not much more than that.

OP, please stop taking other players as hostages.

It’s not “we don’t believe”, it is “i don’t believe”.

Personnally I don’t even see a reason to believe or not. I still enjoy what I have – and I don’t even go into dungeons or fractals, so that part of the game isn’t even on the menu for me. And I am not yet out of projects to follow in this game.

If YOU want more, than YOU are free to express that, of course. But stop pretending everybody else is on your waggon.

Vayne.8563:

I think it’ll be a month or two, before release, but not much more than that.

That is what you think. What you think is worth as much as to know that ANet is working on stuff.

The stuff could be totally unrelated to GW2. Maybe GW3, or GW the trading card game. A GW moba, whatever.
Or it could be totally unrelated to GW in general, like a new brand.

Knowing that ANet is working on stuff is totally irrelevant for the GW2 community until the community knows what this stuff is about.

Bottom line: knowing, that the employees actually work in their company is totally irrelevant as long as noone knows what they actually work on.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

I think it’ll be a month or two, before release, but not much more than that.

That is what you think. What you think is worth as much as to know that ANet is working on stuff.

The stuff could be totally unrelated to GW2. Maybe GW3, or GW the trading card game. A GW moba, whatever.
Or it could be totally unrelated to GW in general, like a new brand.

Knowing that ANet is working on stuff is totally irrelevant for the GW2 community until the community knows what this stuff is about.

Bottom line: knowing, that the employees actually work in their company is totally irrelevant as long as noone knows what they actually work on.

It’s not irrelevant to me, it may be irrelevant to you and that’s okay. You don’t get to judge what’s irrelevant to other people.

Vayne.8563:

The people I’m replying to, that I posted this to refute, have no evidence at all to back them up.

Neither do you. Sorry, but some ‘talk about stuff’ from a third party source does not equal evidence, when all it does is repeat the company’s PR on said issue(s).

Vayne.8563:

I’m sorry but I recognize bias when I see it.

You have a lot of cleaning up to do in your own backyard first then~

Vayne.8563:

All I did here was post a paragraph from an article that made an aside that refutes dozens of forums posts made in the path months.

Only that it doesn’t really refute anything. Echoing the company’s rhetoric on ‘keepin’ busy’ doesn’t translate to new, or more information.

Now let me kindly bring up a couple of nice posts you seem to have missed

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

It’s funny, you know. There’s absolutely no substance to people who say Anet isn’t working on anything, and that they’re not talking because they have nothing to talk about, but I don’t see you getting into those comments and saying they don’t have substance.

There’s no need! They have you for that! I’m just providing the other side of things! I’m providing much needed balance to these forums, much the same as you!

Vayne.8563:

That smacks of bias.

You of all people have no right to talk about bias.

Vayne.8563:

If you’re going to complain about lack of substance, be fair and complain about lack of substance on both sides.

Maybe when you start being fair and actually stop defending ANet 90% of the time.

Vayne, seriously. Tell me how the revelation that ANet is “working” on “stuff” actually helps anything?

Okay, so now we know, beyond the shadow of a doubt (but not really), that ANet is actually working on stuff. We now know that people who say “ANet isn’t actually working on anything” are wrong (maybe). Because someone was given a tour of the ANet buildings and they saw “stuff” going on.

And yet, the perception that ANet is sitting around twiddling their thumbs is going to persist, well past the existence of this thread, because of things like the information blackout the community is still being put through.

You claim that all I want to do is argue, but what about yourself? The only reason I can see for you posting such a thread is so you can jump up and down going “See, see! I was right you guys! ANet is doing things! This other guy says so as well!”

Well, congrats, then, Vayne! You are right and they are wrong! ANet is soooo working on stuff! Huzzah for stuff!

You yourself admitted that the article doesn’t really mean anything, so I wonder why you’re trying so kitten hard to defend it as anything meaningful.

as well as…

Filaha.1678:

Vayne.8563:

It’s funny, you know. There’s absolutely no substance to people who say Anet isn’t working on anything, and that they’re not talking because they have nothing to talk about, but I don’t see you getting into those comments and saying they don’t have substance.

That smacks of bias.

If you’re going to complain about lack of substance, be fair and complain about lack of substance on both sides.

If you don’t, then your comments about lack of substance lack substance.

They’re not the ones that made this thread, and are not the topic of the thread. The topic is the article and how it feeds your confirmation bias.

Whether or not anyone argues against those people is, however, irrelevant to whether “they’re working on stuff” is meaningful or meaningless. Because no matter what a person on the forums says, until that “stuff” is part of the game, it doesn’t matter whether they’re “working on stuff” or sitting around playing with Yo-Yos. As such, an article confirming that they’re “working on stuff” but still doesn’t give any details is as useless as Arenanet saying themselves that they’re working on stuff that we don’t see and have no idea what it is.

and kindly ask for your direct reply thereto, because we surely cannot let the gist of the issue at hand slip by unaddressed, can we.

Does’nt mean much to me personally, or at all. It’s not like he’s gonna state “…walked into Anet HQ…nobody there…except….ZOMBIES!!!”

“..working on stuff..”…How ambiguous can someone be…of course they are working “on stuff” they are running an MMO there’s always “stuff” to be “worked on” and people in cubicles doing that “stuff”. It’s an on-line MMO….could be they were doing day-to-day maintenance and kicking haxors for all we know. Seems a pretty far fetched translation to adhere that to some form of epic content on the horizon.

Happy to be proved wrong.

I’m hopeful but being that it’s over 2 years now and there have been no hints from anyone at Anet I’m guessing LS is it. I really hope I’m wrong but it’s bad marketing if they were to have some sort of secret expansion they just aren’t reveling as too many players are leaving. To suddenly and from out of no-where release it wouldn’t bring to many of such players back me thinks.

Gamers have shorter and shorter attention spans now days and devs need to capitalize on that while they are lucky enough to garner attention. Anet dropped the ball in this respect imho and LS just ain’t cutting the mustard.

I do believe that 2015 will be big year for Gw2