Guild Wars 2

It seems from the last set of nerf anet has an ideal of HOW we should be playing these classes. As in the newest thing they add in the update is how they want use to play them. I can only talk to ele but it seems Anet wants ele to support only with both condi share and healing but they keep nerfing the core class to do so. So Anet you want us to play the way you see the classes you need to tag them with there rolls.

Jski.6180:

It seems from the last set of nerf anet has an ideal of HOW we should be playing these classes. As in the newest thing they add in the update is how they want use to play them. I can only talk to ele but it seems Anet wants ele to support only with both condi share and healing but they keep nerfing the core class to do so. So Anet you want us to play the way you see the classes you need to tag them with there rolls.

Actually, it’s much more that they want to bring balance to the classes so there are multiple ways each class, and each role, can be fulfilled, to avoid anyone being stuck with “only one way” to do things.

There are two main things that happen to skills: adjustments down for things that are either over-represented, or over-powerful, and adjustments up for things that are under-represented, or not powerful enough.

When you see improvements to condition sharing, and to healing, it should tell you that people don’t play ele in those roles — even if they would like to. So, by making them more capable of doing those things, boom, suddenly those players can do their thing with the class they want, and enjoy it.

A similar example would be Warrior greatsword and axe changes in the patch: they move both of them around a bit to make them line up better against each other, reducing the difference, so people can use the one they prefer.

All of those things are focused on making more choices available to players, not less.

Sadly, the instant reaction of some players is to go and benchmark the changed things, then declare that the class is “dead”, or the trait is “the only viable meta option”, regardless of how close they really are.

It’s never a good idea to pay too much attention to what the “meta” builds are.

I get what your saying but i am trying to point out that Anet is killing the play as you want for a lot of classes (i only realty know ele.) Ele was once the power dmg class that could down ppl with power dmg alone. Now its a heal bunker that also seems to have support that adds condi effects on other ppl. Anet has effectively make the arcain line work for one utility well and they are acting as if the other arcain utility are not even there.

I want my staff power ele back and to be on par with tempest air overload or at least condi dmg for over all classes. What ele is today is a must run tempest and every update after HoT has killed the core class to the point of making tempest the only real dmg line the class can take.

For you. Some players feel viable is good enough; optimal is the only way for others. Still others couldn’t care less about it, and play what they enjoy, and still manage to complete content. Go figure!

Don’t worry, I’m sure next balance patch (or the one after), it will have changed again, and there will be new and different lamentations.

Good luck.

Someone always says that ANet is killing “play as you want.” I can’t agree. No matter how stuff is balanced, some will feel their preferred build type is buffed and some will feel it’s nerfed. There’s always going to be some builds that do better DPS and those will be chosen for the meta — in the past, that was zerker’s or zerker’s; now, it’s viper’s plus some alternatives for important niche builds.

That doesn’t mean that ANet is deliberately promoting one style or the other; it just means they are trying to change the balance without toasting everything. They can’t possibly get the balance perfectly, so someone will always feel that they ‘lost’ and others will feel that they won.

There’s an interesting discussion on reddit about the idea that this is less about condi|power than it is about getting the balance right for burst versus ramp-up builds. Power builds tend to be burst and those were preferred for the short fights we used to have in dungeons. Ramp-up always should be better in the long run, which makes it important for the encounters in the more challenging content.

Originally, this game’s power builds were mostly burst; it’s condi builds were entirely ramp-up. There are more power-variations possible now and more condi variations; the problem is that burst is still primarily power and less important for raids and T4 fractals, while condi is still mostly ramp-up and very important.

tl;dr ANet isn’t trying to push us in any direction; they are attempting a delicate balance and we each perceive that differently. Further, they might be struggling with how to find the right balance between burst and ramp-up, something that’s inherently more difficult than just worrying about zerker vs viper.

Both my core-eles changed their jobs, after the last two patches :

One works now as lumberjack, the other as miner

Just to get this straight: the changes have made Power a loser or are Power and Condi more even?

Djinn.9245:

Just to get this straight: the changes have made Power a loser or are Power and Condi more even?

For the most part power is the loser and condi is even more stronger after the update.

I get its both dps but condi comes with its own utility effect where power dmg is still only getting any type of utility from the attk having a condi in it self.

I get back to my ideal adding in tags for classes the game has been pushed into a roll game nearly a 3 type class game due to raids and elite specs. Is it that bad to be up frond about all of this?

My ideal of ele is a mages class that dose mostly dmg with support not a tank class who can take hits. If i am wrong then i am wrong. A new player needs to know at some level what they are getting them self into when they chose to level up a class.

Jski.6180:

My ideal of ele is a mages class that dose mostly dmg with support not a tank class who can take hits.

And primary ele builds are exactly like that. Unless you are speaking about pvp, of course.

So, do these ‘class tags’ change with each (or some) balance patch? How does that help a new player? Doesn’t seem any different than having Professions without a ‘class tag’. If these ‘class tags’ had been there since launch, the Elementalist would have had a power(?) tag, a new person would have spent much time and effort leveling, gearing, learning the Profession and ‘tag’, then balance changes happen, and the Elementalist’s tag changes to condi(?).

Unless one expects there to never be another balance patch, I’m not sure what advantage these ‘tags’ would be.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So, do these ‘class tags’ change with each (or some) balance patch? How does that help a new player? Doesn’t seem any different than having Professions without a ‘class tag’. If these ‘class tags’ had been there since launch, the Elementalist would have had a power(?) tag, a new person would have spent much time and effort leveling, gearing, learning the Profession and ‘tag’, then balance changes happen, and the Elementalist’s tag changes to condi(?).

Unless one expects there to never be another balance patch, I’m not sure what advantage these ‘tags’ would be.

Maybe but it seems Anet has an ideal of how these classes should play and what rolls they should play keeping this info hidden not helping out any one.

Ele is a good example of what wrong (also realy all i know) Ele is the mages the pureset mages in ideal it should do the highest spike dmg or mages dmg in the game or at least highest dps (odd to see a mages class not doing high spike but dmg is dmg) at the same time its able to support (as mages do) but to build support on ele you need to go high tankly making your mages class more of a solder type of class not the mages. The same thing could be said for condi dmg dps builds (the oddly highest dps ele can pull off atm) as it tends to be a more tankly build. Its only power dmg where ele can be that ideal mages but its the weakest build ele has atm.

Ele maybe a mages but it is often build like a melee tank.

I don’t know about hidden. Long before Heart of Thorns released, the Devs spoke about how the new maps/content would be more condition-centric.

Regardless, sometimes the Devs share what they are thinking about with upcoming balance patches, and sometimes they do not. I’m not sure which method receives more, or less, feedback. /shrug

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t know about hidden. Long before Heart of Thorns released, the Devs spoke about how the new maps/content would be more condition-centric.

Regardless, sometimes the Devs share what they are thinking about with upcoming balance patches, and sometimes they do not. I’m not sure which method receives more, or less, feedback. /shrug

Its one or the other they have a aim that they are trying to get or they are just throwing random things out there and hope something sticks (as in if the class is underused throw it an op effect and see what happens). I am just hopeful there mindfulness behind there choose of updates for the classes and how they have added in each elite spec and made though elite spec viable not so much the core classes.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t know about hidden. Long before Heart of Thorns released, the Devs spoke about how the new maps/content would be more condition-centric.

That was because the old meta was called “zerker” for a reason, power dominated overwhelmingly.

Hell, before the specialization update, it was actively bad to have multiple condition users on a team because they’d interfere with each other.

Yes, the change devs were talking about was about making condi actually useful beyond some very niche situations.