Guild Wars 2

Seven out of eight of the classes have some form of pets, thief elite, necro minions, mesmer clones, guardian spirit weapons, ranger pets, etc. As a mostly Mesmer only player, I’d like to suggest a “fix” for all these pets in the game. Right now as it is, the pets get wiped out by aoes, mesmer clones and phants are a huge problem with that, due to being half of the classes damage, and I can feel for the other pet classes too with this issue. My suggestion would be to reduce the damage that pets take from aoe damage… maybe by 25% or so? If that’s too low or high then change the value, but the pets don’t move out of aoe attacks, and often just die too quickly to be of use. This would greatly help all these classes when it comes to all the zerg content/dungeons/wvw and make them feel more useful.

Thanks for reading!

~Niv

All pets except the elite earth elemental that is. They survive just fine.

This same problem has existed since launch and people have been posting about it for over a year.

Do not hold your breath.

It’s very apparent they have no solution or interest in fixing this.

I know it’s been a problem, been playing since the beta, but the more people bring it up, the better chance it has of being changed. Being silent on the issues doesn’t help it. So speak up! Pets need all the help they can get in this game! :P

Nivessa.4258:

I know it’s been a problem, been playing since the beta, but the more people bring it up, the better chance it has of being changed. Being silent on the issues doesn’t help it. So speak up! Pets need all the help they can get in this game! :P

Not trying to be a downer but the forums have been filled with bug reports and issues posted since launch.

Most of them have gone unaddressed.

Just saying – I think you are expecting too much here……

Azreell.1568:

Nivessa.4258:

I know it’s been a problem, been playing since the beta, but the more people bring it up, the better chance it has of being changed. Being silent on the issues doesn’t help it. So speak up! Pets need all the help they can get in this game! :P

Not trying to be a downer but the forums have been filled with bug reports and issues posted since launch.

Most of them have gone unaddressed.

Just saying – I think you are expecting too much here……

Oh, I probably am, but bringing up issues at least can get their attention, even if nothing changes, it’s better than just saying nothing. This is just such a huge issue and one that could be so easily fixed that they CANNOT come up with an excuse, unlike the mesmer sword 3 skill. :P “limitations” my kitten

Nivessa.4258:

Azreell.1568:

Nivessa.4258:

I know it’s been a problem, been playing since the beta, but the more people bring it up, the better chance it has of being changed. Being silent on the issues doesn’t help it. So speak up! Pets need all the help they can get in this game! :P

Not trying to be a downer but the forums have been filled with bug reports and issues posted since launch.

Most of them have gone unaddressed.

Just saying – I think you are expecting too much here……

Oh, I probably am, but bringing up issues at least can get their attention, even if nothing changes, it’s better than just saying nothing. This is just such a huge issue and one that could be so easily fixed that they CANNOT come up with an excuse, unlike the mesmer sword 3 skill. :P “limitations” my kitten

As a mesmer you don’t have it nearly as bad as ranger’s.

All the micromanagement in the world can’t save them half the time vs the current content designs.

Enviromental Weapons are pets now?

Wanze.8410:

Enviromental Weapons are pets now?

Didn’t say anything about that, I mean the true pet skills/pets of classes. This is a big issue, so post up to help get Anets attention! All the classes, aside from warriors :P need this issue taken care of!

Nivessa.4258:

Wanze.8410:

Enviromental Weapons are pets now?

Didn’t say anything about that, I mean the true pet skills/pets of classes. This is a big issue, so post up to help get Anets attention! All the classes, aside from warriors :P need this issue taken care of!

While it might be a big issue against AoE, summons have a huge advantage against single target enemies. You cant expect every build to be equally effective in any given situation.

They can adjust them where need be, but something needs to be done here about it. I’m only saying against aoes, no other damage reduction to other skills. Think about all the rangers complaining about their pets being useless/dead all the time. That would help them out a ton and all other pet classes too.

I’d prefer a whole new class of Ranger with no pets.

Carnius Magius.8091:

I’d prefer a whole new class of Ranger with no pets.

I’m sure many rangers would, but as Mesmers and Rangers are forced to use the pets, wouldn’t you at least be happy if your pet actually survived a bit longer? They won’t get rid of pets for rangers, but if they changed this that would be a step towards making the pet better.

I’m going to try my hand at this here.
Granted that there are ways to keep your “pets” alive, you can’t argue that the AI for them (though better than what it was at launch) still needs work. Since the pets are somewhat ‘dumb’ and don’t really retreat from AoE’s, they kind of get wiped really easily without any form of counter. I think this might actually be a viable option for pet survivability without having to mess with the AI too much. Sure, it sounds like a quick temporary fix, but given that the pets don’t evade attacks it would be better if they were more equipped to be the bullet sponges they are. Especially since half the mesmer, guardian, ele, necro, and ranger ‘pets’ remain stationary or run into fields, it’d be nice for them to have a little shielding or resistance to some of that.
It may not be a blanket fix all the way around, but I think it’s on the right track to making the ‘pets’ a more viable solution. And yeah, I can sit here and complain that “A-Net doesn’t do their job,” but offering a solution and having a following for it could help. I mean, hell, we brought Firefly back didn’t we?

I’ve ran through all kinds of content with my Ranger and my pets rarely die. The profession isn’t just a Ranger…it is a Ranger/Pet and you must learn to play it that way. The ‘pet’ aspect of the Ranger/Pet accounts for roughly 30% of the Ranger/Pet’s damage output and this is reflected in the base stats of the Ranger himself. As such, this combo has many tools/synergies to maintain the well being of both halves. This IS the HUGE problem with the ‘Bearbow’ epidemic that many players teach themselves, which is a very bad habit that is hard to unlearn (ie. ‘tank and spank’ mentality). This is very much a build/pet selection/L2P issue tbh. Once you acknowledge this and learn to build/play as a ‘Ranger/Pet’ and not just ‘a guy with some awful, random AI attached to his hip’, then your effectiveness will grow exponentially. (I rock a pretty vicious Ranger/Pet if you’d like some tips/build.)

Summons, however, are not at all the same as the Pet. Summons are passive abilities/skills which only have positive effects for their ‘masters’ and are not a mechanic with a direct statistical drawback/link to the player. The player character is responsible for 100% of their damage and these summons are a fully passive AI extension of the character and this is the trade-off that comes with these skills/abilities and most of them can still be directly buffed via traits, etc.

The Mesmer’s Illusions are slightly different, as they are part of the profession mechanic. The do, however, adhere to a stricter set of AI rules and are built in to be more spam able than other summons. The Mesmer does retain 100% of his stats, though, and cash buff trait these Illusions as well. They are designed in a way to provide PASSIVE OFFENSE AND DEFENSE via enemy confusion and their own attack skills. They attack for and protect the Mesmer, which is why they have their designated HP/defense to maintain this role without becoming over powered. (PvE does hinder this a bit with how the enemies respond to the player for Mesmers though. The high damage associated with the current Living Story are a temporary thorn in the Mesmer’s side, and don’t justify a drastic change that wouldn’t be implemented until the LS is over anyway.)

This idea has a lot bigger balancing ramifications across the game than I think you’re aware of. The balance between PvE, PvP, and WvW would be big enough that I could honestly see this ‘innocent’ idea to shift the meta of the game quite a bit. Go PvP versus a Minionmancer or try roaming across a PU Mesmer or bumping into an Ambush/Thieves’ Guild Thief and then imagine them being 25%+ harder to deal with.

Nivessa.4258:

Carnius Magius.8091:

I’d prefer a whole new class of Ranger with no pets.

I’m sure many rangers would, but as Mesmers and Rangers are forced to use the pets, wouldn’t you at least be happy if your pet actually survived a bit longer? They won’t get rid of pets for rangers, but if they changed this that would be a step towards making the pet better.

The Pet can’t simply “become better”. Only the player can play the Ranger/Pet better. Their survival isn’t entirely outside of you control. I do, however, think Phantasms should have ~1 sec of unvuln until they launch their skill. Something along these lines, at least, to curb the frustration of wasted cool downs due to their low health.

Okay, first off, I’m not saying make them take 90% less from AoE, I’m saying Anet could try like 25% privately. If that seems too much they can drop it down to let’s say 15% then if that seems good, release it into the public. They can change the % the pet’s get reduced from AoE’s.

Also, fighting a minion master necro, a mesmer, or a turret eng, you can still kill the player before the pets anyways. Why would you let a mesmer keep making phants instead of just killing the mesmer? Right? I mean, sure take out a duelist to have less damage done to you, but that doesn’t really matter much in a 1v1 fight, because weapon skills are not all AoE’s. When I say AoE’s I don’t mean like cleaves, I mean the giant red circles that go on the ground. Surely you can still kill a phant with any of your skills, right? They would only have whatever damage reduction ANet puts on them for true AoE skills.

Lastly, I get it, you are an amazing ranger, but what about classes such as the necro, mesmer or turret eng who has NO control over their pets what so ever? In WvW do you think it’s fun to be a mesmer or a minion master necro and have your pets wiped out as fast as you summon them and then be stuck auto attacking til you can summon them again for them to be taken out again?

Also, I bring this up (again as others have in the past) due to seven out of eight classes having pets that get taken down way too fast to be useful when there are tons of AoE’s around.

Simply put, reduce the damage from TRUE AoE’s (not cleaves) to whatever Anet decides is a good balance.

Ok, so here’s this then. Since you all are expert… whatevers… why don’t you turn this conversation into something constructive like discussing solutions rather than tearing down the idea and just spouting reasons as to why it won’t work. If you’re good at your builds or classes, offer points into solutions instead. It’s easier to tear down an idea than come up with a new one, you know.

Nivessa.4258:

Okay, first off, I’m not saying make them take 90% less from AoE, I’m saying Anet could try like 25% privately. If that seems too much they can drop it down to let’s say 15% then if that seems good, release it into the public. They can change the % the pet’s get reduced from AoE’s.

Also, fighting a minion master necro, a mesmer, or a turret eng, you can still kill the player before the pets anyways. Why would you let a mesmer keep making phants instead of just killing the mesmer? Right? I mean, sure take out a duelist to have less damage done to you, but that doesn’t really matter much in a 1v1 fight, because weapon skills are not all AoE’s. When I say AoE’s I don’t mean like cleaves, I mean the giant red circles that go on the ground. Surely you can still kill a phant with any of your skills, right? They would only have whatever damage reduction ANet puts on them for true AoE skills.

Lastly, I get it, you are an amazing ranger, but what about classes such as the necro, mesmer or turret eng who has NO control over their pets what so ever? In WvW do you think it’s fun to be a mesmer or a minion master necro and have your pets wiped out as fast as you summon them and then be stuck auto attacking til you can summon them again for them to be taken out again?

Also, I bring this up (again as others have in the past) due to seven out of eight classes having pets that get taken down way too fast to be useful when there are tons of AoE’s around.

Simply put, reduce the damage from TRUE AoE’s (not cleaves) to whatever Anet decides is a good balance.

I assumed the suggestion was in regards to large fights involving heavy AoE where these ‘pets’ are more likely to get nuked, as that is the only way it would make any sense what-so-ever, as 1v1 battles generally don’t have these implied ‘AoE spikes’. Also to suggest this for the sole purpose of 1v1s would be completely selfish, absurd, and completely unfair/unbalanced. So let’s just toss that whole notion you had out the window. Now we can realize that even outside of those implied ‘huge AoE spikes’, that this rule would still be in effect going back to making those 1v1 fights biased toward ‘pet’ builds. So it is completely self defeating. (Just a heads up, quickly disposing of a Minionmancer’s pets is a very real tactic for 1v1s against them in PvP, if you know what they’re actually capable of.)

Narsilik Khilsigre.9453:

Ok, so here’s this then. Since you all are expert… whatevers… why don’t you turn this conversation into something constructive like discussing solutions rather than tearing down the idea and just spouting reasons as to why it won’t work. If you’re good at your builds or classes, offer points into solutions instead. It’s easier to tear down an idea than come up with a new one, you know.

Other than my suggestion about Mesmer Phantoms getting a very short duration invuln when cast in order to, at least, start to launch their attacks, I would suggest playing smart and not trying to take Bone Minions or Lesser Elementals to go fight the Assault Knights. As for Ranger/Pet survival, this isn’t the place for posts on Ranger/Pet builds and tactics. I’d be more than happy to in game or PM.

Nivessa.4258:

Okay, first off, I’m not saying make them take 90% less from AoE, I’m saying Anet could try like 25% privately. If that seems too much they can drop it down to let’s say 15% then if that seems good, release it into the public. They can change the % the pet’s get reduced from AoE’s.

Also, fighting a minion master necro, a mesmer, or a turret eng, you can still kill the player before the pets anyways. Why would you let a mesmer keep making phants instead of just killing the mesmer? Right? I mean, sure take out a duelist to have less damage done to you, but that doesn’t really matter much in a 1v1 fight, because weapon skills are not all AoE’s. When I say AoE’s I don’t mean like cleaves, I mean the giant red circles that go on the ground. Surely you can still kill a phant with any of your skills, right? They would only have whatever damage reduction ANet puts on them for true AoE skills.

Lastly, I get it, you are an amazing ranger, but what about classes such as the necro, mesmer or turret eng who has NO control over their pets what so ever? In WvW do you think it’s fun to be a mesmer or a minion master necro and have your pets wiped out as fast as you summon them and then be stuck auto attacking til you can summon them again for them to be taken out again?

Also, I bring this up (again as others have in the past) due to seven out of eight classes having pets that get taken down way too fast to be useful when there are tons of AoE’s around.

Simply put, reduce the damage from TRUE AoE’s (not cleaves) to whatever Anet decides is a good balance.

Go to the Necromancer forum and ask if anyone has a good WvW zerging Minionmancer build for you….I dare ya.

Azreell.1568:

This same problem has existed since launch and people have been posting about it for over a year.

Do not hold your breath.

It’s very apparent they have no solution or interest in fixing this.

Not true. They have made changes to pets’ health bars and vulnerability to agony. It hasn’t totally fixed the problem, but you cannot say Anet isn’t trying.

Tman.6349:

Nivessa.4258:

Okay, first off, I’m not saying make them take 90% less from AoE, I’m saying Anet could try like 25% privately. If that seems too much they can drop it down to let’s say 15% then if that seems good, release it into the public. They can change the % the pet’s get reduced from AoE’s.

Also, fighting a minion master necro, a mesmer, or a turret eng, you can still kill the player before the pets anyways. Why would you let a mesmer keep making phants instead of just killing the mesmer? Right? I mean, sure take out a duelist to have less damage done to you, but that doesn’t really matter much in a 1v1 fight, because weapon skills are not all AoE’s. When I say AoE’s I don’t mean like cleaves, I mean the giant red circles that go on the ground. Surely you can still kill a phant with any of your skills, right? They would only have whatever damage reduction ANet puts on them for true AoE skills.

Lastly, I get it, you are an amazing ranger, but what about classes such as the necro, mesmer or turret eng who has NO control over their pets what so ever? In WvW do you think it’s fun to be a mesmer or a minion master necro and have your pets wiped out as fast as you summon them and then be stuck auto attacking til you can summon them again for them to be taken out again?

Also, I bring this up (again as others have in the past) due to seven out of eight classes having pets that get taken down way too fast to be useful when there are tons of AoE’s around.

Simply put, reduce the damage from TRUE AoE’s (not cleaves) to whatever Anet decides is a good balance.

I assumed the suggestion was in regards to large fights involving heavy AoE where these ‘pets’ are more likely to get nuked, as that is the only way it would make any sense what-so-ever, as 1v1 battles generally don’t have these implied ‘AoE spikes’. Also to suggest this for the sole purpose of 1v1s would be completely selfish, absurd, and completely unfair/unbalanced. So let’s just toss that whole notion you had out the window. Now we can realize that even outside of those implied ‘huge AoE spikes’, that this rule would still be in effect going back to making those 1v1 fights biased toward ‘pet’ builds. So it is completely self defeating. (Just a heads up, quickly disposing of a Minionmancer’s pets is a very real tactic for 1v1s against them in PvP, if you know what they’re actually capable of.)

Okay, let’s try this again…

First off, how would making the phants having a short invuln period help? Let’s say they put a very few second invuln on the phants, right? So I summon my duelist, or my warden, whatever…. it starts the attack, the invuln wears off before the attack is done and it dies still. What does that solve? Nothing. Even if they had it long enough for the phant to do one attack it’ll just die right after. That doesn’t fix anything. Why even put the invuln on there in first place?

I bring up 1v1 because it’s a simple thing to discuss. Okay, so we have a mesmer with clones and phants, We have let’s say, a warrior fighting that mesmer. Now the AoE damage reduction on the clones/phants will only kick in on what, a hand full of warrior skills, such as some of the bow skills, the hammer adren skill? So what? The warrior with a hammer, greatsword, swords, axe, mace, rifle can still kill the phants/clones just as easy as before, right? Right. So take a class like the ele with a staff, so a few skills do 25% or whatever Anet picks less damage, right? But you have so many other weapon skills that will still do FULL damage to the pets. That is why I said 1v1, it’s easier to discuss than a huge blob of players. I hope you see the point I’m trying to make, is that it’d only affect TRUE AoE skills, being like the Ele Staff 2, or 5 skills. But the auto attack and anything that is not a red circle AoE is not changed.

Also, I don’t care about people bringing the best build to zergs and whatnot, I’m saying, if someone wants to run a dungeon, a boss event, WvW as a minion master, as a mesmer, as a eng whatever the case may be let them. If they are using minion and whatnot as it is now they are punished. And you just proved that point by saying who would bring a minion master to a zerg.

I don’t need ranger builds, I can play mine fine enough. I find that even with sigils, recalling pets, or whatever that the pets remain somewhat ineffective during big events in dungeons or, dare I say this without backlash, Living story events. Unless you can time sigils right (which their effects get ignored at times anyway) or recall your pet effectively, you still run the problem of minimalizing damage potential with pets that cannot remain on the battlefield.
One on one pvp is a different thing altogether and I can’t say much for that since I don’t exclusively pvp, but I can say that in pve, I’ve found that I recall my pets more than employ the use of sigils or certain traits, but regardless, the topic is more discussing ‘pets’ that cannot be controlled per se. The ones that are specific for defensive affects, or hell, offensive if stationary, that can get wiped with a simple AoE simply because they don’t run out of it or have some sort of evasion mechanism in place. Granted, I personally don’t want to see indestructible turret-pets, but it would be nice to have the option to employ them without fear that they’ll be immediately wiped in most instances. I think a damage buffer would help, or at the very least, some sort of evasion.

Yeah, Nars, I don’t want to see indestructible turret pets either, but something really should be done here. Considering also, several other MMOs have this feature in place to cover poor pet AI/programming.

In the very least they could look at having ranger pets dodge when we dodge….I shouldn’t imagine that would be too hard to do.

Azreell.1568:

This same problem has existed since launch and people have been posting about it for over a year.

Do not hold your breath.

It’s very apparent they have no solution or interest in fixing this.

Rangers have been crying about this since launch. The only supposed “fix” they got out of the deal was a 15% reduction in pet damage, lol! Cause supposedly rangers were OP, and a bunch of warrior players raged cause they got killed by a ranger or two at some point. As has been the trend, the game’s golden profession got their way, and rangers now die to just about everything on the map in WvW and SpvP. Of all things they chose to nerf, they nerfed Beastmastery. As if it wasn’t bad enough we’re shackled already with the glitchy AI driven things to begin with as it has been plainly stated that “petless” rangers will never exist in this game like they did in GW1.

Sorry, if I went on a tangent and sound a bit rectally injured over this that’s because I am lol. Ranger WAS my fave class, but I’ve since retired mine. She is now nothing but a mule and an RP character, as she’s completely useless outside of PvE.

Got tired of the fight, and trying to convince anyone that things should change… So, I finally caved and did what everyone else did. I tucked in my quivering lip and rolled a warrior. Can’t say I’m happier. The class requires very little in terms of player skill, and I’ve since started slowly outfitting my old dusty ranger with Ascended gear. Just in case someone some great and as of right now unforeseeable day decides to make them less cannon fodder.

Hey, rant on! :P That’s the purpose of this thread and I would think people would be either for some change or at the least offering their suggestion on how to fix the pet issues, not just with rangers, but with all 7 classes. And as a Mesmer player, who needs their clones/phants up to be doing full damage (and for some utility) I can understand your pain. I have to go into traits I don’t even want to go into just so I can summon faster due to them just dying to a boss in one little aoe. Otherwise I’m stuck with utility skill type recharges and just auto attacking.

I seriously don’t see the issue if Anet did some AoE damage reduction. Other MMOs have the same feature, and I doubt people even knew about it or noticed it was in place. They aren’t going to magically improve the pet AI for any class, so this is the easiest thing they can do.

Nivessa.4258:

Seven out of eight of the classes have some form of pets, thief elite, necro minions, mesmer clones, guardian spirit weapons, ranger pets, etc. As a mostly Mesmer only player, I’d like to suggest a “fix” for all these pets in the game. Right now as it is, the pets get wiped out by aoes, mesmer clones and phants are a huge problem with that, due to being half of the classes damage, and I can feel for the other pet classes too with this issue. My suggestion would be to reduce the damage that pets take from aoe damage… maybe by 25% or so? If that’s too low or high then change the value, but the pets don’t move out of aoe attacks, and often just die too quickly to be of use. This would greatly help all these classes when it comes to all the zerg content/dungeons/wvw and make them feel more useful.

Thanks for reading!

~Niv

Actually in order for pets to remain useful, they’ll need to reduce AOE damage by 90% and make certain pets not autotargetable by skills like the #1 skill. This would completely revolutionize the pet skills and make certain pets useful again. Until they do that, no amount of armor or extra hitpoints will make the difference. Keep in mind this has been rehashed multiple times by multiple mmo’s out there for years now and the solution is obvious because everything they’ve tried thus far has already been done multiple times before.

tigirius.9014:

Actually in order for pets to remain useful, they’ll need to reduce AOE damage by 90% and make certain pets not autotargetable by skills like the #1 skill. This would completely revolutionize the pet skills and make certain pets useful again. Until they do that, no amount of armor or extra hitpoints will make the difference. Keep in mind this has been rehashed multiple times by multiple mmo’s out there for years now and the solution is obvious because everything they’ve tried thus far has already been done multiple times before.

90% might be a bit too much, because Anet doesn’t want to split up PvE/PvP so we have to keep a balance in place. That’s why they could test this feature privately and come up with a value that helps but isn’t overpowered in one mode, etc.

Azreell.1568:

This same problem has existed since launch and people have been posting about it for over a year.

Do not hold your breath.

It’s very apparent they have no solution or interest in fixing this.

Well from what I understand the issue is with how pets are treated in the game. See pets are the exact same as the enemy mobs you find through out the world. This doesn’t seem to be much of an issue at first but if you make any modification to the AI it can potentially screw up enemies in the game. At least that’s the dumbed down version as I understand it. Although that doesn’t explain why they can’t make player “pets” there own set of NPCs, not tied to anything else in the game, but I don’t have a degree in programming (yet) so I’m pretty much talking out of my kitten .

Something is better than nothing! And this is the “feature” most MMOs use due to pets just not working that well in a lot of these types of games and just hindering class performance. I really hope this issues brought up now and before has caught someones eye at Anet. Even if they don’t put this into the game, at least let us know something is in the works to help all the “pets”/summons in the game out!