Guild Wars 2

One of the biggest advantages that GW and GW2 had over other MMOs is that you could get your character’s build maxed out easily and then go do all the content. Unfortunately GW2 has been moving away from this with certain gear affixes being expensive/time consuming, hero points (even after the change), ascended items, and various things being gated behind time consuming things.

It makes no sense to me because the difficulty of raids is greatly affected by how much DPS the party can deal, so you end up with part of the challenge being how much grind you can tolerate before you just say it’s not worth it.

The challenge of a raid should purely be two things.

1) The mechanics and player skill.
2) The strategy. What your team comp is and how well you understand how to play it.

Currently one thing is the biggest offender to what I’m talking about. Viper’s stats, and the ascended condi accessories you have to grind PvE to get (living story, etc…)

But even setting up any ascended gear on a character is expensive, especially with people wanting it so badly now that the mats have gone up. This wouldn’t be so bad if you could bring one single build to everything, but with 3 main roles in the raid and various sub-roles, people are finding that they need several builds.

It’s not necessarily the case that ascended is “required” but the fact that you’re competing with people who have it to get into pugs, and even to keep your spot in a static group.

We need to move back to the what GW had and GW2 started with, which was you do the content that you enjoy and you get your rewards from that. You shouldn’t have to go do some other content you’re not interested in. That’s why I’m calling it grind, because I don’t happen to enjoy most of the content that I’m being pushed to do by the way rewards are distributed.

Like Living Story and etc is not content….Just because you don’t care about certain content, it’s there and someone is enjoying it.
And raids are among the more hardcore content ppl were asking for, it’s not for everyone now and they’ll go nowhere if you don’t have the gear now, work for it, like most of us, you can experience it eventually + you can get gear by different methods.

What you mean grind living story? do you know what grind is? you literally do it once.

warbignime.4610:

What you mean grind living story? do you know what grind is? you literally do it once.

Some people in this game put “grind” on everything they do for some reason.

I feel like doing the meta events in Verdant Brink night after night after night to be not only grindy, but maddening because not enough people play it to make the events successful". I am already tired of getting supplies to rally points, following NPCs around while they do whatever it is that they do, and hoping there will be enough players on the map to get a decent reward and XP for the meta event. Forget going to Auric Basin or the Tangled Depths. The groups there planned their play and they aren’t willing to adopt a solo player that doesn’t know the maps well, and is even struggling to get places because of the mastery system. Ask yourself this, if HoT expansion is so much fun why are all the vets killing the world bosses while the events in the expansion don’t have enough players to get things done? I quit going. I show up on the new maps and they are ghost towns. That wouldn’t be so bad if you could solo them, but you really cant.

Zalman.8719:

Like Living Story and etc is not content….Just because you don’t care about certain content, it’s there and someone is enjoying it.

That’s great but I don’t enjoy it so why are the rewards I need for totally different content tied to it?

Zalman.8719:

And raids are among the more hardcore content ppl were asking for, it’s not for everyone now and they’ll go nowhere if you don’t have the gear now, work for it, like most of us, you can experience it eventually + you can get gear by different methods.

Nobody said “We want harder PvE that requires massive grind before we can do it!” People just said “We want more challenging PvE so we don’t just faceroll it with 5 zerkers while half asleep”

warbignime.4610:

What you mean grind living story? do you know what grind is? you literally do it once.

And I literally feel like killing myself after getting halfway through one of the missions. It’s literally that boring. Literally.

And like I said, it’s great that some people enjoy it. But why the kitten do those of us who don’t enjoy it have to do it to get a specific ascended amulet? That’s not “play your way” that’s “PLAY OUR STORY WE THINK ITS COOL SO YOU HAVE TO PLAY IT”

And let me add that when I play with people every single time the discussion on voice chat ends up being about how annoying all this stuff is, because guess what. The people who want to do raids don’t want to do living story, and they don’t want to farm for mats. Guess what they actually want to spend their time doing. Seriously can anyone guess? I’ll give you a hint, I just said the exact thing they’d rather do earlier in this paragraph.

Agreed.

Keep the grind to titles like you did in GW1 so I can just ignore it. kthx Anet.

They need the grind to give the illusion of content because they didn’t create enough content.

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

I´m curious how you managed to do that?

Ascended set including leveling crafting is like 800- 900g now.

That means you would have to atleast make 30g every single day for an entire month. Getting 30g a day takes me roughly four to five hours of Silverwastes farming including doing the event to buy keys.

ChrizZcE.5981:

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

I´m curious how you managed to do that?

Ascended set including leveling crafting is like 800- 900g now.

That means you would have to atleast make 30g every single day for an entire month. Getting 30g a day takes me roughly four to five hours of Silverwastes farming including doing the event to buy keys.

He probably did it before the prices went up. I did too.

I’d like to see him get a full viper’s set though. Anet seriously has to be joking with this. Not only is it overpowered, but it’s extremely expensive/grindy to get.

Also this reminds me. John Smith, stop acting like you’re some kind of supergenius. Your control of the GW2 economy is laughable. It’s as though you don’t even pay attention. Quartz was climbing for a year, the supply so low that individuals were able to manipulate the price on a whim. Like somebody could drop 30 bucks on gems just to kitten with the quartz prices just because they felt like it.

So what did you do? Did you add more quartz? NO YOU LITERALLY ADDED A HUGE QUARTZ SINK. L O L

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

Have to call BS on that.

My main guild is full, mainly casuals who have played since release, but not one has gotten ascended just by playing the game and having fun, most for on 3 years. It’s a complex and fixated goal, not a fall in your lap just playing anyway kinda thing.

Then again maybe your just lucky?

ChrizZcE.5981:

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

I´m curious how you managed to do that?

Ascended set including leveling crafting is like 800- 900g now.

That means you would have to atleast make 30g every single day for an entire month. Getting 30g a day takes me roughly four to five hours of Silverwastes farming including doing the event to buy keys.

Here’s a hint, sell the stuff from your bank. If you are making less than 10g per hour with silverwastes, you aren’t selling stuff or are afk half the time.

But yes, 1 month for ascended if you want to craft ALL of it would be quite expensive at the moment. How lucky that there is ascended boxes in many different game modes and getting 1-2 drops per month is very doable.

Cyninja.2954:

ChrizZcE.5981:

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

I´m curious how you managed to do that?

Ascended set including leveling crafting is like 800- 900g now.

That means you would have to atleast make 30g every single day for an entire month. Getting 30g a day takes me roughly four to five hours of Silverwastes farming including doing the event to buy keys.

Here’s a hint, sell the stuff from your bank. If you are making less than 10g per hour with silverwastes, you aren’t selling stuff or are afk half the time.

But yes, 1 month for ascended if you want to craft ALL of it would be quite expensive at the moment. How lucky that there is ascended boxes in many different game modes and getting 1-2 drops per month is very doable.

The fact that you have to farm silverwastes instead of do what you want is the problem.

Khristophoros.7194:

Cyninja.2954:

ChrizZcE.5981:

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

I´m curious how you managed to do that?

Ascended set including leveling crafting is like 800- 900g now.

That means you would have to atleast make 30g every single day for an entire month. Getting 30g a day takes me roughly four to five hours of Silverwastes farming including doing the event to buy keys.

Here’s a hint, sell the stuff from your bank. If you are making less than 10g per hour with silverwastes, you aren’t selling stuff or are afk half the time.

But yes, 1 month for ascended if you want to craft ALL of it would be quite expensive at the moment. How lucky that there is ascended boxes in many different game modes and getting 1-2 drops per month is very doable.

The fact that you have to farm silverwastes instead of do what you want is the problem.

Oh, I never said you couldn’t do other things. Play any of the new maps, or play some of the old. Everything works.

My respons was simply to one of the considered “best farms currently” getting missrepresented to dramatize a point (the point being that players need to grind massively).

As is, if you don’t go on regular wild spending sprees, gold will accumulate and you’ll be able to afford ascended armor.

that being said, 80+% of the stat bonuses from ascended are not even from armor, but from trinkets and weapons. Both of which are a fraction of the cost of full ascended armor. Maybe start with that?

Cyninja.2954:

Khristophoros.7194:

Cyninja.2954:

ChrizZcE.5981:

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

I´m curious how you managed to do that?

Ascended set including leveling crafting is like 800- 900g now.

That means you would have to atleast make 30g every single day for an entire month. Getting 30g a day takes me roughly four to five hours of Silverwastes farming including doing the event to buy keys.

Here’s a hint, sell the stuff from your bank. If you are making less than 10g per hour with silverwastes, you aren’t selling stuff or are afk half the time.

But yes, 1 month for ascended if you want to craft ALL of it would be quite expensive at the moment. How lucky that there is ascended boxes in many different game modes and getting 1-2 drops per month is very doable.

The fact that you have to farm silverwastes instead of do what you want is the problem.

Oh, I never said you couldn’t do other things. Play any of the new maps, or play some of the old. Everything works.

My respons was simply to one of the considered “best farms currently” getting missrepresented to dramatize a point (the point being that players need to grind massively).

As is, if you don’t go on regular wild spending sprees, gold will accumulate and you’ll be able to afford ascended armor.

that being said, 80+% of the stat bonuses from ascended are not even from armor, but from trinkets and weapons. Both of which are a fraction of the cost of full ascended armor. Maybe start with that?

I have ascended trinkets for most things but to make a good condi build it requires hours spent doing the story which I don’t enjoy.

I think the grind it’s pretty fine as it is…

IMO it should be even harder to get stuff

Khristophoros.7194:

Cyninja.2954:

Khristophoros.7194:

Cyninja.2954:

ChrizZcE.5981:

LimitBreaker.4165:

Its good the way it is, it’s not even a “grind” I made my ascended set in like 1 month just playing normally and having fun.

I´m curious how you managed to do that?

Ascended set including leveling crafting is like 800- 900g now.

That means you would have to atleast make 30g every single day for an entire month. Getting 30g a day takes me roughly four to five hours of Silverwastes farming including doing the event to buy keys.

Here’s a hint, sell the stuff from your bank. If you are making less than 10g per hour with silverwastes, you aren’t selling stuff or are afk half the time.

But yes, 1 month for ascended if you want to craft ALL of it would be quite expensive at the moment. How lucky that there is ascended boxes in many different game modes and getting 1-2 drops per month is very doable.

The fact that you have to farm silverwastes instead of do what you want is the problem.

Oh, I never said you couldn’t do other things. Play any of the new maps, or play some of the old. Everything works.

My respons was simply to one of the considered “best farms currently” getting missrepresented to dramatize a point (the point being that players need to grind massively).

As is, if you don’t go on regular wild spending sprees, gold will accumulate and you’ll be able to afford ascended armor.

that being said, 80+% of the stat bonuses from ascended are not even from armor, but from trinkets and weapons. Both of which are a fraction of the cost of full ascended armor. Maybe start with that?

I have ascended trinkets for most things but to make a good condi build it requires hours spent doing the story which I don’t enjoy.

The sinister trinkets certainly do not take “hours” to complete. The achievements, with 1-2 exceptions are very simple and diversive. Only because YOU do not enjoy the content, does not mean it qualifies as grind.

If you are unhappy with the way certain stat combinations are obtained, pick an appropriate title and complaint. As is, the sinister trinkets are probably the easiest, most straight forward ascended trinkets to aquire.

If you are unhappy, go for 2nd or third best. Or complete one of the achievements, infuse the ring and buy a second similar ring. It should still be possible to wear 2 identical rings as long as one is infused and the other one isn’t.

Khristophoros.7194:

One of the biggest advantages that GW and GW2 had over other MMOs is that you could get your character’s build maxed out easily and then go do all the content.

Excuse me, are we talking about the same GW here? Guild Wars? The prequel to the game we’re currently playing? The game where you literally have to play hundreds of hours to unlock all your skills, grind PvE rep to get your PvE skills to work decently, play/grind more to get skills to put decent builds on your heros? And more yet to afford all the equipment upgrades for yourself and your heros?

Maybe I was just late to the party, but I started playing GW about a year ago, and compared to this game, even just looking at the expansion, I didn’t get anywhere near as quickly nor as non-repeptitively towards a maxed-out build (skills and upgrades, for my pc first and heros afterwards) as I do here. I really don’t have much playtime, but I have fully unlocked elite specs on several characters, got all the HoT masteries to 3-4 each, map-completed a few maps on the side, and am close to maxing out my final Pact Tyria mastery line.

Comparing that to my GW ritualist who still hasn’t all the skills I’d like her to have (not to mention all the stuff I’d like to experiment with later, nor skills and stuff for my heros), I’d say calling HoT a grind in comparison to GW does not need just one pair of rose-colored glasses, but a whole crate full.

Nah he’s right. In GW1 you got max level and gear in a week or two, then forgot about it and enjoyed the game for the next few years.

It ‘s probably a grind fest now though, but that’s 5 years after everyone bailed ship.

PS:Give me a yell if you’d like some help in GW1.Would love to dust my Sin and my Sabway off

fireflyry.7023:

Nah he’s right. In GW1 you got max level and gear in a week or two, then forgot about it and enjoyed the game for the next few years.

Oh, I got max-level pretty quickly allright (just like I unlocked my elite specs pretty quickly in HoT), but all the skills I was missing and the henchmen I played with due to unskilled heros took ages to get, and made me feel much more gated than masteries or optimized stats ever did in GW2.

fireflyry.7023:

PS:Give me a yell if you’d like some help in GW1.Would love to dust my Sin and my Sabway off

Thanks, I will, although it’ll probably be a while before I log in again … I’m having too much fun with HoT right now .

fireflyry.7023:

Nah he’s right. In GW1 you got max level and gear in a week or two, then forgot about it and enjoyed the game for the next few years.

It ‘s probably a grind fest now though, but that’s 5 years after everyone bailed ship.

PS:Give me a yell if you’d like some help in GW1.Would love to dust my Sin and my Sabway off

Except for all the skills you had to farm over the next few hours/days and areas you had to access reach in order to do so.

Don’t get me wrong, the end gear grind certainly is longer in GW2, but people do tend to have very pink colored glasses as to the overall grind.

All the while cosmetic items in GW1 were a ton more expensive than in GW2. Not even going to get into pre Heroes GW1 (you know, the one everyone played before Nightfall and EotN came along?). Forced grouping for just about any content since henchman were trash.

I have pretty much reached the conclusion that when it comes to MMO players.

Grind (n): Stuff I don’t want to do. -ing (v)

Cyninja.2954:

Except for all the skills you had to farm over the next few hours/days and areas you had to access reach in order to do so.

Don’t get me wrong, the end gear grind certainly is longer in GW2, but people do tend to have very pink colored glasses as to the overall grind.

All the while cosmetic items in GW1 were a ton more expensive than in GW2. Not even going to get into pre Heroes GW1 (you know, the one everyone played before Nightfall and EotN came along?). Forced grouping for just about any content since henchman were trash.

All valid points (…you just gave me flashbacks of screaming at henchies…was it Tom or something?That warrior henchy…oh man….head meet keyboard :P) but I guess I never found it that bad. The only real grind was titles and a few key PvE skills, the former could be totally ignored, the latter attained in a few days.

It’s highly subjective I guess, more so given my history of solo UW ecto farming.

“In most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally that you get to do, and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. “I swung a sword, I swung a sword again… Hey, I swung it again! That’s great!” We just don’t want players to grind in guild wars 2. No one enjoys that, no one finds it fun. We want to change the way people view combat."

~Colin Johanson

“We just don’t want players to grind in guild wars 2.”
What happened?

Grind: (noun) Hard dull work.

To me GW2 is not a grindy game (in the literal sense of the word). You CAN get whatever you want doing whatever you want… eventually. However, that doesn’t mean GW2 is problem free in this regard.

The problem is not that you are forced to grind for the things you want. You’re not forced at all. The problem is that grinding behavior (repeating the same content over and over, rendering it dull) is encouraged in a big way, because very few activities reward well. And because there are very few avenues for earning the gold and/or mats you need to get the items you want, you are funneled into a grind mentality in order to speed up item aquisition. You’re not forced to, but you ARE encouraged to. And that is just as bad in my opinion.

If GW2 rewarded you equally for doing anything you like, people would not perceive any grind at all, because players would play the content they enjoy and at the same time be able to get the items they want in a timely fashion.

So I do not think they need to address the content as such, but they do need to address the reward systems in this game.

The only way to make this game truly lacking of any grinding, is to basically give everybody GM powers and the ability to fly while shooting lazer beams out of the eyes and launch missiles out of their mouth.

What did you expect anyways?

I’m not grinding, never have in 3 years. I am acquiring things just by playing with out worrying about being first in getting it. I am not in a race.

Grinding is a choice and a mindset. I grind very very rarely because I choose to. You can also just play the game casually and not grind and not worry about getting stuff fast. It really is a choice.

So many things being broken currently.
Needing to FAIL many events to get legendary items..
Drop rates being so rediculously low.
and everything costing so kitten much, we’re not all made of gold here.

Needing to do everything over and over and over and over and over again…
just in the hopes of getting something.. only to have it never drop..
that takes the fun out of it.

Making things based on ‘rank’ is also stupid because it creates elitists, who won’t take ‘new’ people because they don’t meet the requirement… which makes it MORE difficult than it has to be for things..

And how do you not see this game as a grind game?
You’re one of those accounts that really really great drop rate aren’t you?
one of those that trip over exotics like they’re candy?

That’s another thing!

All accounts should have the SAME base drop rate.
None of this, one account has the best kitten drop rate in the game, without MF(which is still broken af), and then this other account can’t get anything good no matter how hard he/she tries..

It’s to the point that most of us don’t even get excited when we finally get what we try for..
we’re just relieved that we don’t have to do another cycle of the grind.

When something’s been available for 3 years..
and you’re STILL trying to get it…

That’s a bit ridiculous, no?

Deathpunkin.5261:

When something’s been available for 3 years..
and you’re STILL trying to get it…

That’s a bit ridiculous, no?

There were minis in Guild Wars 1 you could wait/grind for pretty much forever and not get.

Guildwars 1 minis were all through birthday, iirc.

Deathpunkin.5261:

Guildwars 1 minis were all through birthday, iirc.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Miniature_Polar_Bear

>,..,>
Special events don’t really count.
I’m talking year round things.

Holy baloney people, why is this still a thing lol. I’m surprised they haven’t just taken it down. Get over it. It’s their vision some odd years ago, stuff happens along the way.

Anet’s stretched so thin across bickering customers, trying to accommodate their wants and needs. One side is vocal of their problem while another side is satisfied. changes happens Vice versa.

Deathpunkin.5261:

>,..,>
Special events don’t really count.
I’m talking year round things.

Oh so a mini that comes once a year doesn’t count? Okay then. So we move the bar. And we move it again.

For a lot of casual players. Obsidian armor took ages to get. Some people never got it. It’s just one of those things.

There’s very few things in Guild Wars 2 than even a causal player couldn’t get in three years if they put their mind to it.

But there are exceptions like things no longer in the game.

But many casual players have gotten say legendary weapons in three years. Without knowing specific it’s hard to answer you.

Deathpunkin.5261:

>,..,>
Special events don’t really count.
I’m talking year round things.

BDS, obsidian armour, envoy weapons,…

I suggest tuning the requirements for all the skins, and then implementing a system that allows people to enjoy both acquiring and using collections of skins.

So that would mean…
1. No more requirements on what is essentially ‘a skin’ such as 250 tears of Zeus + 1 gift of god (which in itself requires 250 dodo bird eggs and 1 gift of leprechauns).
2. No more transmutation charges. Suck it up whoever runs the gemstore.

Now after changing stuff like that if player retention doesn’t increase without players complaining increasing, I’ll eat my friggin shoes!

wouw.5837:

Deathpunkin.5261:

>,..,>
Special events don’t really count.
I’m talking year round things.

BDS, obsidian armour, envoy weapons,…

Celestial compass. Bonecage Scythe, Voltaic spear…

Deathpunkin.5261:

When something’s been available for 3 years..
and you’re STILL trying to get it…

That’s a bit ridiculous, no?

What have you been trying to get for three years that you haven’t been able to get? I cannot think of a single thing in the game that fits that category. If you have done nothing but map completion doing every event in each map for the last three years while stopping to gather at every single node, you could have anything in this game, right?

And FWIW, I am definitely not one of those “lucky” accounts. I’ve never had a precursor drop and have very rarely gotten exotic drops. But I have bought a precursor, without grinding. I have never done dungeon runs, never even completed all the dungeons in story mode. But just playing, even just open world stuff, produces quite a bit of gold in this game over time. Maybe some would regard playing Silverwastes as grinding, but it is playing the game. Just doing that once a day can provide plenty of gold. And gold can buy pretty much anything in the game, even gemstore stuff. Of course nobody gets everything they want as quickly as they want. If they did, all the players would quit the game and ANet would move onto another game.

ANet has been tweaking the reward systems in this game since launch. Is the trend towards more long-term goals? Sure seems that way. Is the trend towards more “guaranteed results” rather than luck. Looks like. Does this mean that there are more rewards with long component lists than before? Yep. Is ANet increasingly using rewards to push players to specific content than at launch? Sure looks that way.

So, why have they done these things?

1. Long-term goals: since shortly after launch, segments of the player-base have been complaining about lack of goals. At least one such segment apparently plays a lot. Also, posts on fan-sites about “no endgame” are bad publicity.
2. Guaranteed results: one of the few valuable items that was dependent on either RNG or a long gold farm was/is T1 precursors. The complaints about that have been around for a long time.
3. Long component lists: at launch, BIS gear was apparently too easy to get. Asc. crafting was the reaction, and the trend seems to be continuing. Why was it put in? See number 1, above. Player complaints.
4. Play specific content for rewards: at least one player demographic has been complaining consistently about the ability of players to get rewards by playing anywhere (or mostly anywhere) in the game. They wanted reasons to go for specific rewards in specific content.

Notice any trends here?

In addition to catering to the complainers, ANet benefits by extending content. That should need no explanation. How might ANet lose out instead of benefit? Well, it would take mass, publicly-proclaimed defections from those who dislike the lengthy goals. Probably a lot more complaints than we currently see.

So, why is that. Well, while anyone can want instant (or fast) gratification, a more laid- back approach to gaming likely correlates with a laid-back approach to a lot of things. Some of those players will be content to get those rewards in the course of time. There’s also lack of competition. If you want a grind-free MMO, would you stay with GW2 even if it means you won’t get item X, or move to another MMO? They’re all grindy at some point. What — exactly — are the options for players who want to avoid grind, but still play an MMO? I don’t really know of any. Maybe you do.