Guild Wars 2

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

that feature doesn’t exist, they made something else, and that something else he played. Get it?

But the feature does exist and we were only delivered 25% of it i want the remaining 75%, i really dont think its too much to ask since everybody who bought HoT paid into the new legendaries, regardless if they were going to craft them or not.

now suddenly we are talking about volume of content.

Anet made a decision, they made B instead of A, we chose to either pay for that or not. If you say you like B (which OP did remember) then be a man and live by your own decisions. enjoying B and complaining that they didn’t make A? cmon this isn’t a playground, were not 4 years old.

Vesica tempestas, your logic is just so far off that i had to write smth just for you. Let me explain this easy to you. If you go buy a bigmac & company which includes frites and a hamburger for the price of 6 euro. You wait and they just give you frites and say “well we give you only frites because we decided we will deliver better tasting ketchup than we have now”. You still have to pay 6 euro for the frites only without getting the hamburger you already paid for only bc macdonals would think their new ketchup is worth it, the ketchup that already was in the pricepool for your menu before without an extra price. You cant ask for your money back because the time ran out for asking your money back.

We paid for living world already and content in gw2. Legendaries were included in the selling point for HoT. Thats why people are upset because they didnt get what they paid for. Simple. VERY EASY to understand and i rly dont understand why YOU dont.

Linken.6345:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

It’s a matter of focus.

They also delivered a bunch of stuff I didn’t know about that I really liked.

I’d say, over all, they delivered more than I was expecting, not less.

they were late with tons of things, under delivered on many, and changed their minds on many things.
im not saying they had no reasons, but as far as developers go, they are not top of the list on intentions and what they deliver.

basically, if anet says this is what to expect, take it with a grain of salt. even if they deliver on 80% of what they say, there is still a substantial chance that it may not come to pass. this doesnt mean they should say nothing, just that you got to realize who you are dealing with.

following through on ideas, or schedules is not high on anets priority, their priority is doing whatever they feel is most important in that moment.

there are some people who will show up to a concert in the rain because they said they would, there are others who will cancel because they think concerts in the rain suck for all involved.

like you said, you start to know what to expect when you deal with people after a time, you know who is the former and who is the latter.

Except that the percentage is probably closer to 95% not 80%. If you list everything Anet has EVER said, and you take away what they haven’t delivered it’s a very low percentage.

its actually noticeably larger if you combine
undelivered/changed/exagerrated, which is what most people consider when they weigh someones trustworthyness.

I’m not buying this at all. Not even a little. I mean people tend to hype themselves anyway, without Anet saying anything.

The biggest example is that Anet said straight up this expansion would be lighter on content because they were redeveloping base systems which they’d use moving forward.

Did that really stop people from complaining the expansion was light on content.

I’m sure if you took every single thing promised, all of it and you numbered them, compared to what’s in the game, you’d find that well over 90% it was in the game.

But then, there are many things they never promised that are in the game that are awesome.

Anet did say, for example, that they wouldn’t be able to bring gliding to core Tyria. They changed their mind on that, because they realized they could. But people don’t say they lied, even though the eventual reality of the situation has changed.

And some people didn’t want gliding on core Tyria and complained about it right here on these forums. Maybe those people would think that what Anet was doing was unethical.

I don’t think it was though. Anet made decisions based on a shifting situation. They’ve always said they iterate and change things. They even had an entire blog post about it back in the day. They told us up front how they work.

I signed into this game knowing this was how they work. It’s sort of late to say changing stuff is unethical.

And I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that legendaries are coming back to the game, in a substantially different form. They just needed to retool how they do the quests for them is my guess, which takes time to work out.

Why won’t they say anything about it? Because when they do say stuff and change it, people call them liars and unethical. I wouldn’t say so much either.

Yes and how much content have we got after hot and these new redeveloped base systems? I guess next expansion will be light on content aswell due to reredeveloping some base system aswell.

No idea. But I don’t feel like HoT was partcularly light in content anyway, and with the living story coming back, and the new zone, it seems a lot of people are really digging it.

The real issue with HoT was the list price. If it had retailed for $30 there wouldn’t have been nearly the resistance to it.

With or without the legendaries.

vesica tempestas.1563:

I’m saying they are using a form of agile development shall we say.

lets turn it on its head, why do you think Anet decided not to make the legendaries?

Had to comment this also. A company is quite incompetent if they say you will get 16 legendaries with an expansion if those 16 legendaries arent rdy and created yet. Its very irresponsible to promise something that they have a hard time to deliver. Makes a bad name for the company.

Personally i dont care about the legendaries but they who do, have a valid point of being dissapointed and mistrusting Anet and you should understand this.

sanctuary.1068:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

that feature doesn’t exist, they made something else, and that something else he played. Get it?

But the feature does exist and we were only delivered 25% of it i want the remaining 75%, i really dont think its too much to ask since everybody who bought HoT paid into the new legendaries, regardless if they were going to craft them or not.

now suddenly we are talking about volume of content.

Anet made a decision, they made B instead of A, we chose to either pay for that or not. If you say you like B (which OP did remember) then be a man and live by your own decisions. enjoying B and complaining that they didn’t make A? cmon this isn’t a playground, were not 4 years old.

Vesica tempestas, your logic is just so far off that i had to write smth just for you. Let me explain this easy to you. If you go buy a bigmac & company which includes frites and a hamburger for the price of 6 euro. You wait and they just give you frites and say “well we give you only frites because we decided we will deliver better tasting ketchup than we have now”. You still have to pay 6 euro for the frites only without getting the hamburger you already paid for only bc macdonals would think their new ketchup is worth it, the ketchup that already was in the pricepool for your menu before without an extra price. You cant ask for your money back because the time ran out for asking your money back.

We paid for living world already and content in gw2. Legendaries were included in the selling point for HoT. Thats why people are upset because they didnt get what they paid for. Simple. VERY EASY to understand and i rly dont understand why YOU dont.

lol you comparing mac and fries to an MMO game?
the budget for making a burger is waaaaaaaay different from making an mmo content XD

sanctuary.1068:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

that feature doesn’t exist, they made something else, and that something else he played. Get it?

But the feature does exist and we were only delivered 25% of it i want the remaining 75%, i really dont think its too much to ask since everybody who bought HoT paid into the new legendaries, regardless if they were going to craft them or not.

now suddenly we are talking about volume of content.

Anet made a decision, they made B instead of A, we chose to either pay for that or not. If you say you like B (which OP did remember) then be a man and live by your own decisions. enjoying B and complaining that they didn’t make A? cmon this isn’t a playground, were not 4 years old.

Vesica tempestas, your logic is just so far off that i had to write smth just for you. Let me explain this easy to you. If you go buy a bigmac & company which includes frites and a hamburger for the price of 6 euro. You wait and they just give you frites and say “well we give you only frites because we decided we will deliver better tasting ketchup than we have now”. You still have to pay 6 euro for the frites only without getting the hamburger you already paid for only bc macdonals would think their new ketchup is worth it, the ketchup that already was in the pricepool for your menu before without an extra price. You cant ask for your money back because the time ran out for asking your money back.

We paid for living world already and content in gw2. Legendaries were included in the selling point for HoT. Thats why people are upset because they didnt get what they paid for. Simple. VERY EASY to understand and i rly dont understand why YOU dont.

Not a good analogy to the situation.

Better one:

McDonald’s had begun to hype up a new burger to rival the Whopper. But then they get a report that says customers are getting into a health food craze. So they put the burger on hold and release the salad instead. There is no such thing as preordering fast food, so in no instance would they have my money before they released the new item.

MrPinks.2015:

lol you comparing mac and fries to an MMO game?
the budget for making a burger is waaaaaaaay different from making an mmo content XD

Okay then, let’s compare this to buying a home. Say you buy a home and you hire a general contractor to renovate the entire place. When you hire them you pay for a remodel of the 2 bedrooms, the kitchen, the bathroom and the dining room. You guys agree to the terms, sign and pay.

Half a year goes by and you are ready to move in. You then arrive at your new home and you notice that they finished the 2 bedrooms, the dining room and the kitchen but the bathroom is about 25% finished, i.e., it still functions as a bathroom but it wasn’t renovated as you had set forth.

Now you are likely upset and rightfully so but the contractor tells you, oh sorry we moved priorities over to the kitchen and dining room because we ran out of time and people generally spend more time in those other areas. Also, we even put in nicer things than you had asked for! We added a stainless steel oven and fridge, marble counter tops and brand new carpeting for the dining room! Isn’t it great?! We have to move onto other projects because you aren’t the only person we do business with but be glad we got you all of this other stuff, you understand right?

Now, if I was using the logic of many people in this thread, then the contractor would be in the right because he still provided most of the service, he just had to adapt because he ran out of time and needed to prioritize other things. It doesn’t matter what was agreed upon or paid for because things change and that’s how business works.

The reality of the situation is that the contractor would have to follow through with the contract. And if they did not fulfill this then there could easily be a lawsuit and the contractor will be held liable.

So I ask you now, what would you say in this case? And based on the principle of the example why is it any different? Why would one be acceptable and the other not?

PS: Another poster above mentioned something that none of you seem to acknowledge either. It’s in very bad taste to promise and ultimately sell something that you cannot deliver on. For example, if at the time of offering a full new set of legendaries with HoT, they only had 1 completed and 8 months to ship the game and they knew that that 1 completed legendary took 3 months. Then there is no way in hell that they could ever finish all 16, so why promise to begin with?

Things just don’t magically happen overnight and the expansion didn’t just happen over night. Yes, people asked for it but if you for one second think that Anet didn’t have any plans for an expansion then you are quite foolish.

So if in their infinite wisdom they decided to hype and sell something they knew that they could not deliver on, then they are 100% in the wrong. It is not our fault if they bit off more than they can chew, we paid for something and it is up to them to deliver. If they need to hire more people to get the job done, then so be it.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

Not everyone I know is running a business that advertises a product as including certain content and then announces that they have made a decision to not provide the content after accepting payment.

I do agree with you that we should judge every company trying to get our money in this way.

There is a huge difference between, “we are looking into the possibility of X,” and advertisements claiming that X is included with the purchase of the expansion and accepting payment under that expectation.

I think this post is basically addressing the biggest flaw of Colin’s term as Game Director.
He had a bit of a Peter Molyneux streak, as in we would be promised worlds and stars and everything in-between, only to reach the deadline and have a watered down, rushed, kitten or simply non-existent version of what was promissed.
And this pretty much sums up HoT. HoT was very much rushed, half the stuff it promissed it failed to deliver, and Anet has spent the last year fixing stuff (and imo there’s still a ton that should simply be scrapped and overhauled – Masteries and PvP seasons for example).

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

Not everyone I know is running a business that advertises a product as including certain content and then announces that they have made a decision to not provide the content after accepting payment.

I do agree with you that we should judge every company trying to get our money in this way.

There is a huge difference between, “we are looking into the possibility of X,” and advertisements claiming that X is included with the purchase of the expansion and accepting payment under that expectation.

But the difference is, they’re advertising a suite of things, not one separate individual thing.

I’ve seen many products advertised this way that changed over time, due to say availability. I remember computers being advertised as coming with certain software and during a shortage of that software, it was replaced with something else.

However, an MMO isn’t a product you buy, what you’re really buying is access to a theme park of sorts. They advertise rides that close sometimes in theme parks. Sometimes they close because of lack of interest. It’s in the best interest of most park goers to make that change.

If I ran a health spa and I said I was going to be putting in four of a specific machine and I bought one and hardly anyone used it, sure I’d change the plan and get something people used. That’s just logical.

MMOs are access to a world and a game. You’re paying for a key for an experience. If you think you’re paying for any single item in an MMO, you’re going to be disappointed relatively frequently.

Many times things aren’t delivered as we picture them anyway. What if they came out with 16 horrible looking legendaries that no one in their right mind would make? They’d be delivering on their promise, but who would care?

They made some legendaries and I pretty much can guarantee if most people who bought hot was making them, they’d continue making them. They made a business decision.

You pay for access to the game. They anticipated higher demand. It wasn’t there. Frankly I do believe everyone who bought the game just for legendaries, or even primarily for legendaries should be given a refund for HOT and have it and all it’s benefits removed from their account.

But that’s all I see that Anet should need to do.

In the mean time, I’m still confident more legendaries are coming at some point. I know people think they’ve been canned completely but I’m not believing that’s the case.

sanctuary.1068:

vesica tempestas.1563:

I’m saying they are using a form of agile development shall we say.

lets turn it on its head, why do you think Anet decided not to make the legendaries?

Had to comment this also. A company is quite incompetent if they say you will get 16 legendaries with an expansion if those 16 legendaries arent rdy and created yet. Its very irresponsible to promise something that they have a hard time to deliver. Makes a bad name for the company.

Personally i dont care about the legendaries but they who do, have a valid point of being dissapointed and mistrusting Anet and you should understand this.

This is the problem when you look at anything in isolation. Lets make this as simple as possible:

At any give time Anet has a choice, they can either work towards the things that customer want most, or they don’t. So what should a good development team do? Well, they should react to change and build what gives greatest value to their customers now, not x years ago – things have moved on.

In contrast to this we are seeing demands and threats in this thread for said things in the past that are not the the thing that gives greatest value to the customer anymore. Why on earth would you ever want otherwise eh,.

As i said over and over and over, this is called Agile development, its an industry recognized methodology, that is all about working on the thing that gives greatest value to the customer, and continually evolving to meet the customers ever changing needs. The opposite is to set your requirements and stick to them no matter what your customer MOST wants – this is called Waterfall development, and is suited to products and demands that do not change much, (e.g a missile guidance system, an epos system, a booking system etc etc)

So, the question is simple, build what the majority want’s now, or build what we wanted years ago – what do you want?

vesica tempestas.1563:

sanctuary.1068:

vesica tempestas.1563:

I’m saying they are using a form of agile development shall we say.

lets turn it on its head, why do you think Anet decided not to make the legendaries?

Had to comment this also. A company is quite incompetent if they say you will get 16 legendaries with an expansion if those 16 legendaries arent rdy and created yet. Its very irresponsible to promise something that they have a hard time to deliver. Makes a bad name for the company.

Personally i dont care about the legendaries but they who do, have a valid point of being dissapointed and mistrusting Anet and you should understand this.

This is the problem when you look at anything in isolation. Lets make this as simple as possible:

At any give time Anet has a choice, they can either work towards the things that customer want most, or they don’t. So what should a good development team do? Well, they should react to change and build what gives greatest value to their customers now, not x years ago – things have moved on.

In contrast to this we are seeing demands and threats in this thread for said things in the past that are not the the thing that gives greatest value to the customer anymore. Why on earth would you ever want otherwise eh,.

As i said over and over and over, this is called Agile development, its an industry recognized methodology, that is all about working on the thing that gives greatest value to the customer, and continually evolving to meet the customers ever changing needs. The opposite is to set your requirements and stick to them no matter what your customer MOST wants – this is called Waterfall development, and is suited to products and demands that do not change much, (e.g a missile guidance system, an epos system, a booking system etc etc)

So, the question is simple, build what the majority want’s now, or build what we wanted years ago – what do you want?

It doesnt matter what its called, its breaking the agreement when it was sold/bought and nothing can change that. You could call it a scam even. Its just beyond me how you dont realise the core issue. You realise that a company cant change their desicions left and right you know? If thats Anets philosophy from now on its pretty scary. If i pay for a 2 man room at a hotel i expect to get a 2man room and not a 1 man room where i have to pay as much as i would for a 2man room. Anet broke the buy/sell agreement. Simple as that. People have all the rights to be upset.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

Not everyone I know is running a business that advertises a product as including certain content and then announces that they have made a decision to not provide the content after accepting payment.

I do agree with you that we should judge every company trying to get our money in this way.

There is a huge difference between, “we are looking into the possibility of X,” and advertisements claiming that X is included with the purchase of the expansion and accepting payment under that expectation.

But the difference is, they’re advertising a suite of things, not one separate individual thing.

I’ve seen many products advertised this way that changed over time, due to say availability. I remember computers being advertised as coming with certain software and during a shortage of that software, it was replaced with something else.

However, an MMO isn’t a product you buy, what you’re really buying is access to a theme park of sorts. They advertise rides that close sometimes in theme parks. Sometimes they close because of lack of interest. It’s in the best interest of most park goers to make that change.

If I ran a health spa and I said I was going to be putting in four of a specific machine and I bought one and hardly anyone used it, sure I’d change the plan and get something people used. That’s just logical.

MMOs are access to a world and a game. You’re paying for a key for an experience. If you think you’re paying for any single item in an MMO, you’re going to be disappointed relatively frequently.

Many times things aren’t delivered as we picture them anyway. What if they came out with 16 horrible looking legendaries that no one in their right mind would make? They’d be delivering on their promise, but who would care?

They made some legendaries and I pretty much can guarantee if most people who bought hot was making them, they’d continue making them. They made a business decision.

You pay for access to the game. They anticipated higher demand. It wasn’t there. Frankly I do believe everyone who bought the game just for legendaries, or even primarily for legendaries should be given a refund for HOT and have it and all it’s benefits removed from their account.

But that’s all I see that Anet should need to do.

In the mean time, I’m still confident more legendaries are coming at some point. I know people think they’ve been canned completely but I’m not believing that’s the case.

And if you sold memberships to your health spa based, in part, on advertisements that access to certain equipment would be available to purchasers, and then decided to not provide access to that equipment after accepting payment for said access, you would be in the wrong unless you provided refunds (was the policy requiring the loss of one’s core game access be lost in order to get a refund for HoT ever changed?).

It is not an agreement – read your The End User License Agreement.

you know its really easy to throw complaints all over the place, but its the intelligent that actually stop to ponder what the correct approach is, so again:

Build what the majority want’s now, or build what was promised years ago – what do you want?

Vayne.8563:

No idea. But I don’t feel like HoT was partcularly light in content anyway, and with the living story coming back, and the new zone, it seems a lot of people are really digging it.

The real issue with HoT was the list price. If it had retailed for $30 there wouldn’t have been nearly the resistance to it.

With or without the legendaries.

I think your point is valid. I simply waited till it was on sale to try it out. I wouldn’t have waited this long if it had been 30 bucks at the start.

Personally I don’t care about the legendary weapons since, though intricate, I actually don’t like the look of a single one of them. I am fine with that because it saves me a lot of trouble or annoyance.

It is natural that after a few years of playing a game there is a moment where a person needs to take a break. No content will save you from that especially if you put in a lot of hours in general in the game.

It seems though that ArenaNet has a tendency to want to overcomplicate a lot of things. I personally like Auric Basin and Verdant Brink are great maps, but the other HoT maps not so much. They are more annoying than interesting and I know that people will have different tastes but I also have the feeling a fair amount of players feel the same way about some of these maps. That means that these new maps have not enticed perhaps as many players to hang out there as it should’ve.

It was very good to get that explanation about the LFG tool. It works as you explained, but it is a bit sad to me that you have to wait till certain fixed times to group up to do these meta’s. On the one hand I get it, on the other hand I don’t.

I just wonder if these sort of things couldn’t have been done a bit simpler and easier, but that’s just me.

vesica tempestas.1563:

sanctuary.1068:

vesica tempestas.1563:

I’m saying they are using a form of agile development shall we say.

lets turn it on its head, why do you think Anet decided not to make the legendaries?

Had to comment this also. A company is quite incompetent if they say you will get 16 legendaries with an expansion if those 16 legendaries arent rdy and created yet. Its very irresponsible to promise something that they have a hard time to deliver. Makes a bad name for the company.

Personally i dont care about the legendaries but they who do, have a valid point of being dissapointed and mistrusting Anet and you should understand this.

This is the problem when you look at anything in isolation. Lets make this as simple as possible:

At any give time Anet has a choice, they can either work towards the things that customer want most, or they don’t. So what should a good development team do? Well, they should react to change and build what gives greatest value to their customers now, not x years ago – things have moved on.

In contrast to this we are seeing demands and threats in this thread for said things in the past that are not the the thing that gives greatest value to the customer anymore. Why on earth would you ever want otherwise eh,.

As i said over and over and over, this is called Agile development, its an industry recognized methodology, that is all about working on the thing that gives greatest value to the customer, and continually evolving to meet the customers ever changing needs. The opposite is to set your requirements and stick to them no matter what your customer MOST wants – this is called Waterfall development, and is suited to products and demands that do not change much, (e.g a missile guidance system, an epos system, a booking system etc etc)

So, the question is simple, build what the majority want’s now, or build what we wanted years ago – what do you want?

In theory this could mean never releasing anything because you cannot necessarily roduce now what is wanted now. Anything of any significant workload is going to require sufficient time to produce that jt is a matter of building what people wanted in the past.

Even so, there is a difference between moving, agile, development priorities and not delivering a product or service for which you have already accepted payment.

Had Anet presold GW2, specifically advertised as an MMO with all of the features listed, and then decided that more gamers play games such as League of Legends and so, with extreme agility, changed direction to deliver a League clone…would it be excusable because the company was being agile and adapting to what they perceived of as the current desires of the gaming community?

vesica tempestas.1563:

It is not an agreement – read your The End User License Agreement.

you know its really easy to throw complaints all over the place, but its the intelligent that actually stop to ponder what the correct approach is, so again:

Build what the majority want’s now, or build what was promised years ago – what do you want?

Honestly, what the hell are you on about? This isn’t something that was just promised it was sold with HoT. They did not say that it may appear, they stated that it will be released with HoT. It was used to help generate sales and then it was never fully followed through with. You can throw the same kittening word “Agile Development” around all you want but what they did was wrong and could even be considered a Bait and Switch. Which is not legal at all.

How do you know what the majority wants any better than we do? If you go based on that then raids should have never ever been released because such a small portion of the population actually wanted them and an even smaller portion plays them. Yet a team of the same size as the legendary team, was and still is working on raids.

All Mike said was that the team could spend years on finishing the legendaries, well that’s not our fault is it? You sold them to us, you follow through with it. They can hire more staff if they need to, plenty of other companies do.

Hell, if I pulled this kind of kitten at work I would be fired rather quickly and we would also lose a lot of business. I don’t see why you defend such lame business decisions.

You also mentioned that you were a developer I believe, so I ask you (if I am mistaken please correct me). Do you often sell things you know you will have no way of finishing? If so, how can you not consider that a shady business practice.

I mentioned it in an earlier post that you might not have read but if you know it takes you 3 months to make 1 of 16 things but you only have 8 months until your product needs to ship, then how the hell can you promise to have all 16 ready? And even more how can you take sales on the product stating that all 16 will be released? That is not shady to you? I mean really, come on now.

vesica tempestas.1563:

It is not an agreement – read your The End User License Agreement.

you know its really easy to throw complaints all over the place, but its the intelligent that actually stop to ponder what the correct approach is, so again:

Build what the majority want’s now, or build what was promised years ago – what do you want?

Not that agreement…When i bought HoT it was after they introduced everything they promised us. Raids, new legendaries, layers of new maps. If they never had mentioned any of those i maybe never had bought it. People bought it because they liked what they heard.

Never ever, have i bought a mmo or any other game where i actually have paid them…and then they dont deliver what they “sold”. When i bought gw2 HoT, one of their selling points was new legendaries. I know for a fact, people who basically bought HoT mainly for the new legendaries. Legendaries were their end game. They bought a game where Anet promised legendaries to later not get what they bought. Very simple to understand still, dont know what you find so hard to understand.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/
Its right here dude.

“It takes a lot of work to craft these legendary journeys for release, so rather than take the time to develop the full set before releasing any of them, we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game. Collections for the existing legendary weapons will be available on launch day, while the first three new legendaries will become available shortly after launch, alongside raids.”(Anet, october, 2015).

Thats pretty much an agreement for buying HoT to me and to alot of people as well.

And as i have said that’s why you need fast moving design methodologies. this thread is about 3 year old promises and childish declarations that they wont pay again because 3 year old promises are not met and refusing to aknowledge user level agreements, the concept of opportunity cost etc etc – that is indeed child like.

so again, should Anet build those legendarily or build the other things that we want?

Thats not what you pay for, read your eula – do you know you don’t own the game? do you know you dont own your char?

I keep asking this question deliberate because this is what it boils down to – what should Anet prioritise – so what should they prioritise? its not 3 years ago, the past is gone, what now?

vesica tempestas.1563:

And as i have said that’s why you need fast moving design methodologies. this thread is about 3 year old promises and childish declarations that they wont pay again because 3 year old promises are not met and refusing to aknowledge user level agreements, the concept of opportunity cost etc etc – that is indeed child like.

so again, should Anet build those legendarily or build the other things that we want?

Its actually less than 1 year old SELLING point for buying heart of thorns expansion. Anet should give the playerbase what they sold. Yes, they SOLD legendaries. Lets ignore the word “promise” for now. They SOLD new 16 legendaries in the new xpac. Honestly, its like arguing with a person that doesnt understand the meaning of sell/buy and all the rules that comes with it. You do realise that theres rules above Anet created by the country and pretty much international how sell/buy works. Whats legal or not…and im sorry to say, i dont wanna mention it but Anet pretty much broke one of the official laws.

SO AGAIN WHAT SHOULD THEY PRIORITISE – stop kittening complaining and give your opinion instead.

Well if you get philosophical about the past and the future, then technically ArenaNet has done nothing wrong yet.

It doesn’t anywhere state what time interval after launch there was going to be more, it doesn’t state when, just that it’s after the launch of HoT there will be more legendary weapons included in HoT. Just that it’s somewhere after launch. Which it still is. Even 5 years in the future it’s still after the launch of HoT. It basically could mean any time after launch they add legendary weapons for free it would be. It wouldn’t be very nice, but technically still keeping their end of the bargain.

I mean, they basically did say what would be delivered with launch and they said what would be after launch (undetermined amount of time)

Also, everything delivered can totally be based on what people want in the past, now and in the future. It might be that they deliver on something that most players didn’t actually think about before. In fact I’m pretty sure that a great deal of development is also about predicting what people like (in the future after release) or may be getting some used to.

It’s like.. let’s say Tangled Depths, where a large amount of people said they hated the map at first but then it became their favourite map. Well after it was delivered.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Well if you get philosophical about the past and the future, then technically ArenaNet has done nothing wrong yet.

It doesn’t anywhere state what time interval after launch there was going to be more, it doesn’t state when, just that it’s after the launch of HoT there will be more legendary weapons included in HoT. Just that it’s somewhere after launch. Which it still is. Even 5 years in the future it’s still after the launch of HoT. It basically could mean any time after launch they add legendary weapons for free it would be. It wouldn’t be very nice, but technically still keeping their end of the bargain.

I mean, they basically did say what would be delivered with launch and they said what would be after launch (undetermined amount of time)

Very true, if it wouldnt have been the fact that it sounds like in Mo’s post about legendaries like they abandonded it entirely.

vesica tempestas.1563:

SO AGAIN WHAT SHOULD THEY PRIORITISE – stop kittening complaining and give your opinion instead.

They should cut the next expansion team totaly and deliver what this expansion was sold as, then take back those developers when its done to work in second expansion.

vesica tempestas.1563:

And as i have said that’s why you need fast moving design methodologies. this thread is about 3 year old promises and childish declarations that they wont pay again because 3 year old promises are not met and refusing to aknowledge user level agreements, the concept of opportunity cost etc etc – that is indeed child like.

so again, should Anet build those legendarily or build the other things that we want?

The thread is not only about three year old promises.

The lack okittennowledgement of opportunity cost is on your part when you dismiss the opportunity cost faced by Anet, the loss of revenue from those who now consider Anet to be unreliable in delivering advertised products or services.

Refusing to pay again when what you paid for in the past has not been delivered is not childish, its responsible consumerism.

sanctuary.1068:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Well if you get philosophical about the past and the future, then technically ArenaNet has done nothing wrong yet.

It doesn’t anywhere state what time interval after launch there was going to be more, it doesn’t state when, just that it’s after the launch of HoT there will be more legendary weapons included in HoT. Just that it’s somewhere after launch. Which it still is. Even 5 years in the future it’s still after the launch of HoT. It basically could mean any time after launch they add legendary weapons for free it would be. It wouldn’t be very nice, but technically still keeping their end of the bargain.

I mean, they basically did say what would be delivered with launch and they said what would be after launch (undetermined amount of time)

Very true, if it wouldnt have been the fact that it sounds like in Mo’s post about legendaries like they abandonded it entirely.

And regular intervals sounds like 2-3 every 6 months since all but the art take 1 month each right so 5 months for art should be ok… I think more then 1 artist could work on said legendary team hopefully.

We have seen they can deliver weapons when they want to just check the black lion store collection ones.

sanctuary.1068:

Very true, if it wouldnt have been the fact that it sounds like in Mo’s post about legendaries like they abandonded it entirely.

Well, we were arguing that we probably should take whatever ArenaNet is saying with a grain of salt anyway…. =P

Linken.6345:

vesica tempestas.1563:

SO AGAIN WHAT SHOULD THEY PRIORITISE – stop kittening complaining and give your opinion instead.

They should cut the next expansion team totaly and deliver what this expansion was sold as, then take back those developers when its done to work in second expansion.

^ this…right here. I don’t even give a crap about Legendaries, but if someone said – “Hmmm. I will pay the $<whatever> for this expansion because of all these new Legendaries.” and then there are only 3 delivered, then, yeah, I would be upset. Regardless of this “new and improved” content they delivered instead.

To drive analogies into the ground – let’s use the car one from page 1 or so of this thread:

Car company promises a car with special headlights, and some awesome trim. They deliver one piece of awesome trim and one special headlight when you get your car, with the rest to come later. Then they say “Nope. Too hard. No good. Here’s a nifty drink holder and a bobblehead to stick on your dashboard…that you still have to pay for. And we’ll change the color of your car, cause reasons”.

To many, nothing Anet has provided since the expansion is any better than, nor a replacement in lieu of, the Legendaries. Not understanding that simple point is mindboggling in it’s obtuseness.

To me, the Reward Track they put into WvW (so I don’t ever have to set foot in a dungeon) is worth the price of admission. But that’s just me. Bloodfen was meh, as is Maguuma jungle zones. I did them…got what I needed…and now I’m done with them.

But if I was looking forward to something they promised then failed to deliver, I would be looking for/demanding something in return. Something specific (a free ascended item of my choice, perhaps?).

I think some are confusing agreeing with a decision personally and agreeing that it is a good long term decision for the company.

Overall the number of players who would have bought HoT based on the legendary weapons is likely small. Comparatively speaking.

They were between a rock and a hard place. Continue working on legendary weapons and lose a majority of players to lack of new content (including some who would want those legendary weapons). Postpone legendary weapons to work on new content and lose a small portion of players.

As for me, while the new legendary weapons were not a draw for me the next expansion pack will either need to blow me out of the water based on feedback I hear from the betas or they will have needed to gotten back on track with or have finished releasing the HoT legendary weapons. And none of the HoT legendary weapons should require anything from any future expansion packs.

It is entirely possible to hate a decision a company makes and understand why it was done.

What the majority of people defending the decision fail to understand (or choose not to) is that when the expansion was announced there were promises made, one of which included a full set of legendaries on release. This was later changed to a few on release and a steady stream after the game came out. This would still have been fine, it’s understandable that priorities shift and what have you but as long as content used to advertise the game does get delivered that’d be fine. But now the feature is indefinitely cancelled. I’m pretty sure my HoT purchase wasn’t partially indefinitely refunded until the marketed parts are released.

Personally I’m not even that interested in the new legendaries, or the old one for that matter. The problem is however that Anet have pulled the whopping 6 people working on content we’ve already paid for while the happy bunch of 70 (or whatever the last quoted number is, I’ve pretty much stopped following the game) are actually working on the next cash grab expansion. What this tells me is Anet are fine with overcharging for an expansion that turns out light on content to begin with, putting the features that aren’t convenient on indefinite hold while CHOOSING to prioritise a new expansion over finishing the one people (including the ones defending the decision) paid for.

Keeping this in mind, why would I, as a customer, buy the next expansion? Anet have already stated each expansion will include the core game and previous expansions in the purchase. Why would I pay for expac 2 only to have quite possibly the same thing happen again to, for example, rifles for thieves this time around. Instead I can just wait until expac 7 comes out, pay the same 35 British wizard moneys I’d pay for expac 2 and get all the partially finished 5 expansions that came out since without having to be kittened off about cut features. Right now in between how the manifesto video turned out on game release and how the expansion stacks up versus the initial hype announcement I can’t POSSIBLY trust anet to deliver on what they promise to get my 35 foreign currencies. And the funny thing about trust is it’s kinda like a sheet of paper. You can crumple it up and then straighten it back out, but it will never be quite the same as before.

tl;dr keeping my money till thieves get rifles, because that’s literally the last thing this game can offer at this point that I care about (other than being ripped off by cut features I already paid for, even if I probably wouldn’t use them).

vesica tempestas.1563:

if a developer carried on with tunnel vision and only ever built what they discussed at some point in the past then their ability to react to present customer needs would be nil. Strangely the people that complain still play the very same product they have played for the last 3 years including the content that was made instead of those 3 year old legendaries that were discussed. Still for some it seems a good excuse to declare they will no longer support the game in the future (why?) and yet they will still play it which means actually they still enjoy same content. The modern take take take never be happy with what you have people are delightful.

It’s not tunnel Vision for ArenAnet though, we’re discussing follow through.
Yes…they still play the content but what you clearly glossed over is that they are not opening their wallets. <—-this is the only thing that really matters regardless of how ANYONE feels. ArenaNet You or I.
It’s not take take take taking when I tell someone…I will do this…then I fail to do it…then the disappointed person no longer comes to me for business and expresses their dissatisfaction for that very reason. Have you ever had a job? Or supervisor for that matter?

What people do not understand is that their relationship with ArenaNet is a BUSINESS relationship. It has NEVER been about fun; this is a mom and pop shop cutting you a deal ‘cause they’re YOUR mom and pop. It’s always about the money. This is unfortunate but…I guess necessary.

See you make your comment but when you look at an 18% loss between q1-q2 and then a ~50% loss from q2-q3.

A business would do well to deliver on what they say they will deliver on the first time. Period.

People act like it’s different for mmo’s and it’s not. It’s the same way when Google released it’s Nexus 6 (2014) with all sorts of broken projected dates. The same crap with the One Plus One. Tons of chit chat very little follow through. Is it really a thing anymore? Nope.

It’s the same exact thing with a different product.
Company makes some claim that they will give this if you buy this…they take your money and then VERY conveniently fail to deliver.

ArenaNet says to it’s customers we are designing this for you. (Hey! Why don’t’cha pre-order it too!)
ArenaNet IMMEDIATELY fails to deliver said product after accepting money for transaction.
Customers/Consumers/future customers choose not to do business with ArenaNet.

I can’t stand when people try to spin a clearly bad situation into some kind of…oh it’s ok…ArenaNet is not the problem YOU ARE type b.s. Modern lets ignore the problem so it will fix itself.

This to me, in my opinion, from my own observation and experience makes ArenaNet look like a flee ridden cat trying to avoid a very, very, VERY, inevitable bath tub. They will take whatever their slowly-going-broke (desperate) little claws can grab purchase of before that final moment of the inevitable.

I don’t want the game to fail. I want it to be better…but I am not being suckered out of money for something they seemingly are trying to do away with.

Linken.6345:

They should cut the next expansion team totaly and deliver what this expansion was sold as, then take back those developers when its done to work in second expansion.

Let me understand this logic. In the midst of a near-year-long content drought (not including raids), that resulted in the lowest numbers in their business history, you would rather ANet drop any further work on PvE content, to include an expansion, to instead focus on legendary weapons?

I see.

Well . . . I’m glad you’re not the president of ArenaNet.

SpeedFiend.4521:

What the majority of people defending the decision fail to understand (or choose not to) is that when the expansion was announced there were promises made, one of which included a full set of legendaries on release. This was later changed to a few on release and a steady stream after the game came out. This would still have been fine, it’s understandable that priorities shift and what have you but as long as content used to advertise the game does get delivered that’d be fine. But now the feature is indefinitely cancelled. I’m pretty sure my HoT purchase wasn’t partially indefinitely refunded until the marketed parts are released.

Prepurchase started 16th of June, and it was already known March 26th that they wouldn’t release the whole set at launch. Which is besides the entire point of the thread, where we’re discussing getting what we paid for. Anyone who was legitimately interested in Legendaries knew well in advance of any payment method that there wouldn’t be a full set. Saying they promised a full set right at the start of HoT is just not true. To be honest I can’t even find ANY statement that says otherwise, so I’m just going to assume you’re making stuff up.

Keeping this in mind, why would I, as a customer, buy the next expansion?

A totally unrelated point here, but I feel like sharing this. Personally I already know I would buy the next expansion, because I enjoy whatever it is they deliver. I could care about promises they make, and care about if they fulfill them, I could care about other people feeling ripped off, but at the end of the day I would buy any game simply for the entertainment value it provides, not for anything else, like promises, other people’s opinions and the like.

To me your opinion sounds like not buying an icecream because they promised to have special vanilla lime chocolate icecream, that you don’t quite like, but since they promised and couldn’t deliver to other people you don’t buy their icecream. I’m like, kitten, I still want an icecream and this is the only company selling it. (GW2 is an unique product) I’m just gonna buy it anyway.

You opinion is just as valid btw, just trying to explain why I would buy it. Also, this by no means means that I think it’s a good thing they didn’t deliver, (and I doubt Anet thinks differently) just that it’s heavily outweighed by what they do deliver from my perspective.

(Do I need more disclaimers?)

Seera.5916:

I think some are confusing agreeing with a decision personally and agreeing that it is a good long term decision for the company.

Overall the number of players who would have bought HoT based on the legendary weapons is likely small. Comparatively speaking.

They were between a rock and a hard place. Continue working on legendary weapons and lose a majority of players to lack of new content (including some who would want those legendary weapons). Postpone legendary weapons to work on new content and lose a small portion of players.

As for me, while the new legendary weapons were not a draw for me the next expansion pack will either need to blow me out of the water based on feedback I hear from the betas or they will have needed to gotten back on track with or have finished releasing the HoT legendary weapons. And none of the HoT legendary weapons should require anything from any future expansion packs.

It is entirely possible to hate a decision a company makes and understand why it was done.

Bingo. +1

Shovel Face.4512:

and said we could expect new legendarys as well as a way to craft/build precursor weapons later on in 2013. It took them about 3 yrs before we finally got what we were promised and on top of that, we only got 4 new Legendarys as the rest were put on hold (in other words it’s basically cancelled) despite the fact we, the players, bought it with our own money.

So what does this say about Anet as a company? Do you consider them to be fraudulent and deceiving? Because that is what I think of when someone says ArenaNet. I don’t really care for Legendarys all that much, but what I do care about is if a company makes a promise, they better deliver on that promise. If I buy something that was clearly advertised by a company, and that company not only does not deliver with the item but doesn’t even give me my money back, I consider it fraudulent and deceiving. And its really not just the Legendarys but everything else that Anet has promised but have failed to deliver. I haven’t bought anything with real money since HoT came out and I don’t think I ever will.

But on a lighter note, atleast I’ll still play your game, you’re just never going to get my money ever again

But you’re 3 years late on making this rant. Surely both parties can forgive each other for lateness?

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Wow, you could almost come to the conclusion that Anet is your average game development group; nothing here is differentiating them from any other game dev. How terrible ><

this is not my experience with other developers. most that i remember tend to follow through with publicized plans. also most developers wont stray far from their initial game plans. love it or hate it, anet doesnt believe that staying the course is valuable. they prefer to be open to redesign.

it has its strengths and weakness, knowing what the future holds for the game is not one of them.

many other games are very predictable, and deliver on what they promote.

Must be convenient to see the one dead tree in the forest to convince yourself the forest is blighted.

Linken.6345:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Linken.6345:

They should cut the next expansion team totaly and deliver what this expansion was sold as, then take back those developers when its done to work in second expansion.

Let me understand this logic. In the midst of a near-year-long content drought (not including raids), that resulted in the lowest numbers in their business history, you would rather ANet drop any further work on PvE content, to include an expansion, to instead focus on legendary weapons?

I see.

Well . . . I’m glad you’re not the president of ArenaNet.

Im sorry your unable to read mister, it clearly states to cut the team they have working on next expansion.
To finish this one and not the ones working on live atm.

Clear enough for you or do you want a audio file and a hearing aid?

Actually, I think what you are saying is the same thing he said you are saying. I don’t see anything in his post to make me think he misunderstood you … and I would happen to agree with him. It would be a rather dumb mistake (to repeat twice) to attempt Legendary development again AND make it a priority over anything else … I mean, that’s just obviously dense if they did that, just to placate the few unreasonable people that don’t understand what they paid for and think that Anet promised them something that they didn’t get exactly.

Linken, The Heart of Thorns expansion is completed. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but shipped as complete nonetheless. The current team is working on the next expansion (i.e. PvE content). You are asking for that team to stop working on PvE to return to legendary weapons.

That’s not going to happen in the near future for reason I’ve already gone into.

The continued life of the game is more important than any item whether promised or otherwise. If the game is dead, legendary items are moot. Not saying I like that certain ‘promises’ were not kept, but I am also fully aware of the bigger picture.

And, once again, that does not mean legendaries are gone forever. It means they are on hiatus until the game is once again in a comfortable place, as far as numbers, in the near future.

Meaning: it’s making money.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Linken, The Heart of Thorns expansion is completed. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but shipped as complete nonetheless. The current team is working on the next expansion (i.e. PvE content). You are asking for that team to stop working on PvE to return to legendary weapons.

That’s not going to happen in the near future for reason I’ve already gone into.

The continued life of the game is more important than any item whether promised or otherwise. If the game is dead, legendary items are moot. Not saying I like that certain ‘promises’ were not kept, but I am also fully aware of the bigger picture.

And, once again, that does not mean legendaries are gone forever. It means they are on hiatus until the game is once again in a comfortable place, as far as numbers, in the near future.

Meaning: it’s making money.

the premise that the game would die with 6 people working on legendaries is not based on anything.
Even MO never claimed the game will die without those devs working on the expansion.

also you miss his point, the legendaries are not simply some extra. they are part of the last product, you and the developers are acting like hot is over, but it hasnt been delivered as advertised.

his point is that anet is reneging on the last product they sold, supposedly to improve the next product they want to sell.

the only way your reasoning makes sense is if you assume
1) delivering on legendaries will bankrupt the company
2) if the company doesnt go bankrupt, they will later deliver on what they sold you at no new cos

neither of which is likely.
1) because even though earnings are down, a 1 million investment(hiring more developers) over the next 2 years, would not come close to breaking their backs
2) because last time they were in the same situation, they chose to develop legendaries as part of HOT, in order to enrich their new product, rather than include them in the old product they already sold.

from anet’s best for business side, the question is, is the loss of integrity going to negatively impact earnings more than the cost of hiring 6 additional devs for 2 years.

from the consumer side, its weather the loss of trust in the developer will change the percieved value of the product. or more simply, do you feel comfortable doing business with these guys.

i personally think the loss is greater than their money saved, especially outside of box sales.

That’s the thing though .. how do you know they saved money and didn’t use those resources to deliver more relevant content to a wider audience? You assumed they did it to save money; I think that’s a bad asumption.

Legendaries will not bankrupt the company but that doesn’t mean they should continue stupidly developing that kind of content if there are better things to develop that add more value for a wider audience of players. Looks to me like you should also read up on opportunity cost and Return on Investment. You will never get away from considering decisions a company makes about their products and services without considering these kinds of concepts. These are concepts your arguments (and most other people’s) ignore.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Linken, The Heart of Thorns expansion is completed. Maybe not to your satisfaction, but shipped as complete nonetheless. The current team is working on the next expansion (i.e. PvE content). You are asking for that team to stop working on PvE to return to legendary weapons.

That’s not going to happen in the near future for reason I’ve already gone into.

The continued life of the game is more important than any item whether promised or otherwise. If the game is dead, legendary items are moot. Not saying I like that certain ‘promises’ were not kept, but I am also fully aware of the bigger picture.

And, once again, that does not mean legendaries are gone forever. It means they are on hiatus until the game is once again in a comfortable place, as far as numbers, in the near future.

Meaning: it’s making money.

Thats the thing tho it aint completed, the devs themselfs stated it would become complete over time.
Just becouse you dont care about the legendary weapons mean that its alright to cut that content

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns will let you begin your journey toward the first new set of legendary weapons to be added to the game since its original set of 20 that were included in the launch of Guild Wars 2. The first three to be released will be the celestial axe named Astralaria, an experimental energy pistol called H.O.P.E., and the raven spirit staff named Nevermore. Additional legendary weapons will be released in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of 16 has been added to this game.

Update, March 2016: Please see this post from game director Mike O’Brien about legendary weapons & upcoming content in Guild Wars 2.

And they still havent changed the wording in the advertisement.

Sure they added the update line at the end but how many click that small green text 50% of the people?

Clearly state it without having to click any extra links or get cracking on churning out those legendarys Imo

Over time doesn’t mean right now. And keeping a game alive, in light of the recent number with sales, doesn’t mean it’s dead. It means the game is not in a good place after the PvE content drought. My personal opinion about legendaries doesn’t equate into this discussion. I like to deal in facts and reason not in personal opinions and assumptions.

Given that I’m now repeating myself, and in light of a personal attack, I see no amount of reasoning is going to get through . . . and I’m not inclined to continue a debate with anyone more interested in personal attacks than logic.

You’re not getting your legendaries until the game is on more solid ground. They also said no expansions and no grinding for gear. Things change. If you feel so strongly about it, take it up with customer service.

Good luck.

Anet has your money for HoT. There is no incentive for them to finish what they promised. They are already onto the next moneymaker. They have a massive staff working on the next expansion.

Be extremely wary when Anet starts advertising the next expansion. I would take any features advertised to be added after launch with a grain of salt. In fact, you might want to take any advertised features with a grain of salt since any one of them might end up being “too much work that will be a strain on the staff”.

Obtena.7952:

That’s the thing though .. how do you know they saved money and didn’t use those resources to deliver more relevant content to a wider audience? You assumed they did it to save money; I think that’s a bad asumption.

Legendaries will not bankrupt the company but that doesn’t mean they should continue stupidly developing that kind of content if there are better things to develop that add more value for a wider audience of players. Looks to me like you should also read up on opportunity cost and Return on Investment. You will never get away from considering decisions a company makes about their products and services without considering these kinds of concepts. These are concepts your arguments (and most other people’s) ignore.

they did it to save money because they could have done both, by spending more money.

opportunity costs assesses value based on whats best for anet’s profit, not the consumer. also opportunity costs rarely reflect the integrity of the product, and are only tangential to what is legal. there also many opportunity costs that are hard to quantify correctly, and must be mostly guessed at, or approximated.

also you and others are ignoring that they already sold people the product, its not a question of whats best, but more a question of weather you do, or dont meet your obligations.

its up to the consumer to decide weather they are willing to renegotiate an agreement, not the developers opinion on what the consumer really wants. if they offered refunds that didnt damage your product, it would be less of an issue.

basically once you advertise and accept money for a product, you are responsible to meet the terms.

however law and what actually happens is different, because its not worth the hassle to sue for 50.00, at best you can probably get 50.00 dollars back.

so it really just comes down to whats important to each consumer.

the consumers complaining, are correct, however, anet is more concerned with the next expansions content level, and their operating costs, rather what they delivered on the last product they sold.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Over time doesn’t mean right now. And keeping a game alive, in light of the recent number with sales, doesn’t mean it’s dead. It means the game is not in a good place after the PvE content drought. My personal opinion about legendaries doesn’t equate into this discussion. I like to deal in facts and reason not in personal opinions and assumptions.

Given that I’m now repeating myself, and in light of a personal attack, I see no amount of reasoning is going to get through . . . and I’m not inclined to continue a debate with anyone more interested in personal attacks than logical reasoning.

You’re not getting your legendaries until the game is on more solid ground. They also said no expansions and no grinding for gear. If you feel so strongly about it, take it up with customer service.

Good luck.

Its good advice but everyone cant use it since you have to have bought it from anet directly to get help from customer service. ( I assume you were thinking about a refund here right? )

People asked for expansions loudly in the forums same with gear since they dident feel the progressed havent seen anyone ask for less legendaries tho…. why would someone ask to get less of stuff.

They said they have about 40% working on live pve 40% on next expasion with 20% mingling bettwen live and expansion.

How can you state that taking the 40% of the not working on content pve for the game that will see the light of day for maybe 1-2 years will make the game die if there is still 40% cranking out content for the live game?

While those then can finish up the expansion they already sold to get consumers back in their good graces for the next expansion.

That then they can continue work on 2 expasion while those other 40% are still making content for the live game.

70-90 developers should be able to finish up the rest of the legendarys in a snap considering there were 7% of that working on them before.

And if they dont need all of those sure by all means take the few left over and help the live devs

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Over time doesn’t mean right now. And keeping a game alive, in light of the recent number with sales, doesn’t mean it’s dead. It means the game is not in a good place after the PvE content drought. My personal opinion about legendaries doesn’t equate into this discussion. I like to deal in facts and reason not in personal opinions and assumptions.

Given that I’m now repeating myself, and in light of a personal attack, I see no amount of reasoning is going to get through . . . and I’m not inclined to continue a debate with anyone more interested in personal attacks than logic.

You’re not getting your legendaries until the game is on more solid ground. They also said no expansions and no grinding for gear. Things change. If you feel so strongly about it, take it up with customer service.

Good luck.

the situation they are in now, is a direct result of the plan to place more emphasis on the expansion, as opposed to ongoing content. legendaries were the obvious aspect of this development shift, but its no coincidence there wasnt much content in a long time period.

looks like overall their plan is to reduce ongoing content, and prioritize the manufacture of expansions. I would expect very little meaty content outside of expansions in the future. the plan is essentially to get faster at expansions.

Preaching to the choir there. I was one of the loudest voices opposing the expansion for this very reason. Yes, the chickens have come home to roost.

Several times I’ve seen the statement that asking for a HoT refund meant losing access to one’s core account. This is not true.

Here’s the latest Dev statement on the issue:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Refunds-Why-not-Ultimate/first#post6251817

Thus, anyone that wanted a refund could have obtained one (it may have taken an extra email or two, as the Knowledge Base isn’t always updated as it should be). One should really be wary of forum rumors.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Several times I’ve seen the statement that asking for a HoT refund meant losing access to one’s core account. This is not true.

Here’s the latest Dev statement on the issue:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Refunds-Why-not-Ultimate/first#post6251817

Thus, anyone that wanted a refund could have obtained one (it may have taken an extra email or two, as the Knowledge Base isn’t always updated as it should be). One should really be wary of forum rumors.

Yes but its only if you bought it from their site right not from amazon or any of the other third party retailers then you have to go to them and good luck trying to get a refund from them 6 months down the line since the bomb was droped in march.

Anet should create legendary in 2 steps:

1) make gen 2 legendary using gen 1 crafting method since launch, precursor could be looted from dead foe, chest etc, could be account bound if you so wanted.

2) add precursor crafting like gen 1 legendary as a 2nd step, could be released along with 2nd expansion.

Delivery us the gen 2 legendary and skip all the precursor crafting until they are ready.

This is what i preferred.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Several times I’ve seen the statement that asking for a HoT refund meant losing access to one’s core account. This is not true.

Here’s the latest Dev statement on the issue:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Refunds-Why-not-Ultimate/first#post6251817

Thus, anyone that wanted a refund could have obtained one (it may have taken an extra email or two, as the Knowledge Base isn’t always updated as it should be). One should really be wary of forum rumors.

its not really a rumor, they actually said they couldnt refund hot once you played it, without killing your account, apparently this has changed.

anyhow it also says in the faq, that the refund is only good for 30 days, so who knows what your options are.