Guild Wars 2

You know the real problem with this patch.

It’s not that it’s not what people asked for, because just about every change in the patch was asked for at some point. Nor is it that the changes are mostly bad, because most of them seem to be good.

The problem here is a simple one. Over selling. You put something on your website that says FEATURE PATCH, which is good, right. Let’s people know you’re doing stuff.

You spread out the feature patch over three weeks, making people wait for it, when most of it is just the kind of stuff you’d expect from patches all along, or they’re fixes to things that people wanted in the game ages ago.

It’s the PR that caused most of the current issue, not the patch.

If you came up to us, like a person instead of a company trying to promote, and said to us, look, we have a patch coming out, a lot of long overdue updates that we’ve been working on, we’re just playing catch up, so don’t expect too much…and this patch would have gone over a lot better.

This is particularly true because the last feature patch brought us the wardrobe and the mega server, huge changes.

This could have been better handled and given you a lot less grief if you’d lose the whole we need to promote or people won’t love us attitude. They’re appreciate honesty.

Now if you have a reason behind the spread of information, like this keeps us visible on MMO sites, which is good for the game, telling us that’s what you’re doing makes you look good, not bad.

I’m not unhappy with the patch myself. It’s pretty much what I expected it to be, without all the specifics, but this is the type of thing I was expecting. But others were expecting a lot more.

And part of the reason for those heightened expectations is that you oversold the patch. Overselling can be as damaging and not selling enough.

Yes.

Being treated as a gullible idiot, who’ll get all excited by a load of hype about not that much, offends me.

If Anet had said “The next feature patch will be on the small side because we’ve been so busy with the China launch, but normal service will resume in due course”, I’d probably grin and bear it. But instead we have this snow job.

When you take what they are putting into the patch, Vs what people have been asking for this last year, we aren’t really getting all that much, did we really need to move minis to the wardrobe, Minis where already account bound,

Lets look at everlasting harvesting tools, they are account bound, yet you still have to go your bank, put it in, log out, log in, take it out again etc, they should make it that everything you buy from the TP that is Account bound, either goes into a special tab so that every char can get it at the same time, or make it that you type in /bonus and it gives you all account bound items that you have bought, its a QoL thing that ppl have asked for, (why should someone who is actively supporting the game via gem store not get this update we’ve already paid for it)

I would say that in the next 6 months they will really start to see the hurt ingame with sales, unless then do a MASSIVE overhaul of dungeons and fractals ( which they currently said they wont ) people will just give up, the WvW community is getting hammered into the ground with lack of updates, how long do they think that can go on for.

This patch really seems its aimed at new players vs older players, which lets face it a lot of companies do, I have to question though are we really seeing that many new players to the game now Vs older ones who are still around,

Newer players reading this feature patch might thing happy days look at that, but anyone else is like meh it should have been there from the start, we will never get numbers but im guessing more leave then join this game on a monthly basis, id be stunned if most of our feature patch wasn’t already stuff that was put into the China release at launch, and we are just being upgraded to them, ( wonder will we see the VIP system )

I personally would not recommend this game to a friend / family in its current state, and im even having problems getting friends who played it to come back, ( I know everyone’s views are different though ) for me, I was an avid GW1 player, and I had extremely high hopes for GW2 that just have not materialised at all.

Patch content itself is ok (nothing in there that I don’t want) but a bit underwhelming – especially for the way it has been presented. Shamelessly quoting a comment on massively:

“Could it be, perhaps, that GW2 is so far in its own hype on the front of “being something different” that they don’t feel they need to follow conventional “rules of engagement” with an MMO community?"

+1 to your reasoning, Vayne.

It’s the exact same thing that happened with precursor crafting. Something that wasn’t sufficiently developed was oversold as a sure thing that was just around the corner… and then people got mad. The backlash wouldn’t have been anywhere near as severe if the post had been more honest/realistic.

Couldn’t agree more.

“We’ll release things that will please veteran players in week 3”
Seeing the title, I’m not hyped at all, to be honest I don’t even care about what is released. Veteran player here, I was advertised pleasing things, I get meh things, yay…

I find what you’re talking about to be a large problem in many parts of our life now. Overhyping, “NEW!”, “Exciting!”, “Seen never before!”, “Innovative technologies!”… ah yeah, so their new toothpaste now has glitter and the box is blue instead of red, and the new smartphone has a 0.2 cm larger screen.

There’s another extreme, though; when you treat people as completely equal, like many indie companies do, you start looking, hm, dumb and unprofessional.

I would like to see some kind of compromise in the way ANet communicates with us. Not just overhyped PR talk (Feature patch blog posts, trailers) and useless Facebook chat (“Communicating” thread), but actual intelligent conversation which shows their fans why they do this or that… you know, like here.

I want to hope that a substantial portion of gamers today, including first-time MMO players, are not annoying entitled teenagers, but actually smart people who crave for knowledge – and knowledge about their favourite MMO specifically. But I guess ANet’s marketing department has reasons to think otherwise, because I see no other reason in turning communication about the game into a shiny, but bloated and shallow TV advertisement from 1990s – which IMO still work for children… even though children are not the ones who can freely pour cash into Gem Store.

I just want to note, Week 3 isn’t over yet . . . not that I can guess anything which will cause the people currently complaining to drop to their knees and shower praise on the devs.

Vayne, I like you . . . but you and I both know ANet can’t dispense with the PR speak, and they probably can’t tone down the marketing. Both of which probably lie higher above the food chain than the people who come here to talk with us.

On the positive side, it feels like there are red-posters trying to actually engage even if people want to heap rocks on them until they confess.

I thought people thought this ‘advertising’ was aimed at new people/returning players, rather than the existing playerbase. I mean, I would think most advertising is.

Lol, we as intelligent veteran players should understand the difference between ‘advertising’ and cold facts. How enticing to new players would be a press release sent out that said, ‘Meh…updated some things that were long-past due. Changed some stuff some players wanted and other players didn’t’.

Or would you prefer accusing the company of lying, which is what would happen if they sent out press releases saying one thing, and wrote something different on the Official Blogs?

I’m sure most players want new and exciting content and features. I’m sure the company would like to entice new players, as well. Often the existing playerbase comments on how the company has wasted their resources by creating content and then not putting it in the game. And, the playerbase is now commenting on the company having created content and is putting it in the game.

It seems difficult to please a playerbase. When some are happy, others are disappointed. Even when the Devs explain why they do the things they do. Poor Devs.

Well said, Vayne. The point is that other companies make such changes as side notes or just additional changes. Anet presents those minor changes as huge as other company’s espansion packs. It really looks ridiculous to announce such minor changes as 3 week awesomeness that isn’t any special.

Definitely the PR is a bit much. It’s the same old hype we’ve always had. They try to throw so much excitement in there and make it sound like this is the best thing ever and just what we’ve always wanted. While the changes may very well be nice and welcome, they are mistaken (and maybe insulting) if they think we’re going to be over the moon about it like if it had actually been what we’ve been asking for since forever.

It’s patronizing for them to act like “we know what the players want better than they do ..just wait, they’ll see. They’ll love this thing we decided they want and forget all about that other stuff”. I don’t know if that’s how they really think or not, but I feel that’s what they’re presenting to us with the overblown hype over things that don’t warrant it and total evasiveness about anything else.

We’d more appreciate transparent honesty. Drop the spin-zone stuff and just level with us like we’re intelligent human beings. Do your best to deliver what we we ask for and if something doesn’t work out, then “man up” so to speak and just say “hey guys, this is what happened with that”. That’s infinitely better than ignoring us and then coming out with totally unrelated stuff and raving about how amazingly amazing it is. You know what would be amazing? Coming through for us and proving you still “get it”. Nobody expect perfection, but we do expect “something” (that we actually wanted). Remember, the more your treat us with dignity and respect, the more likely you are to get it in return. Treat us like a bunch of suckers and, well, look at the forums lately.

I wouldn’t consider them spreading out the reveal info over three weeks as hype, per say.

Too me, while it can drag on for a long while, it allows the community to better absorb and discuss each topic. Some people might that think as such, but Anet does read the forums to get our opinions of subjects. Them spacing it out allows them to get a better read on our views on the subject, because if they only did a big info dump a week or so ago, some topics might have been left out of most discussions because they are easily overshadowed by others.

I just sign on to this.

In my opinion (naturaly) they really need to rework their PR strategy.

Time and time again they “promised” us something “amazing”, something “we” really want and in the end it turned out (not always) as just bearly scraping the barrel.

For a game that is now two year old they did a great job promoting and keeping the game “up to date”, however failed in expanding the game in a meaningful way, that keeps players interested.

That they have to cram in a break in the LS at the moment, instead of going parallel with these “features” shows that the man power is not evenly devided in the comapany to cater to all the parts they try to satisfy (which is understandable because it`s normal, but this feels like a bad version of it).

After 2 years (which starts to pain) this game has gotten a better foundation, but went never realy out of its borders. They played it safe.

I am taking more and more the “wait and see” aproach to every patch, reading every “news” with a sigh and every “hyped” announcment gets the silent treadment.

In my opinion they should really be honest with us.
They should be honest and put in the word “finaly” in every QoL announcment that was asked for since the start and not hype it as something “amazing”, because at this point, lots of these changes are way overdue and the only amzing thing about it, that we are still with the game to actually experience them.

I know it is not easy. It is a lot of work (i guess, though some of these things seem easier than others.).
However we are getting to the point in which the hype is not representing the game, because it is just there to overshadow the slow changes within.

It is a blending tactic, trating us like stupid sheep and it really sad to see such a direction from a comany that says and sometimes shows (if they are not being pressured to be silent for various reason) that they want to be honest and transparent.

Again, this all boils down to managing customer expectations, which ANet is— quite frankly— terrible at. I posted a piece of an article on managing expectations in the “Communicating With You” thread, but it applies here as well:

“Here are the five steps I always try to follow for managing client expectations:

1. Be Honest From The Get-Go. Though it may sound counterintuitive, I always tell potential new clients in the very first initial conversation about possiblyworking together that there are no guarantees. As with most things in life, there are too many factors at play to make any grandiose promises. I can’t predict whether a producer will like a pitch, or a reporter will quote my client. Although it may feel uncomfortable, I think that saying this clearly and in no uncertain terms, positions the client to take a leap of faith in your work and also helps them to understand the process behind your work.

2. Under-Promise , Over-Deliver. This old adage is one to live by! I promise my clients that they will have immediate & constant access to me and my team; that we will, every day, work on their behalf through pitching and meetings with the media; and that if nothing else, it is guaranteed that they will become known to key members of the media. After that, when big interviews start rolling in, it’s much more appreciated!

3. Anticipate the Client’s Needs Before They Know Their Own Need. This one definitely takes time and practice, but think about it: no one knows your business as well as you do. You know when things are going great and when you need to ramp up your efforts. It’s so important to share that with a client through a simple email stating “I’m going to spend extra time this week working on your project – I really want to get you out there as much as you do.” It can go a long way.

4. Constant Communication. If you’re in the service industry of any kind, that is what you do – serve. That means being bubbly, bright and (almost) always available. While of course it’s important to set boundaries so that you can maintain a rewarding personal life, it’s critical that your clients know they can gain access to you as needed. Hopefully just knowing you’re available and ready to jump on a project as needed will be enough so that your client’s won’t abuse your generousity with time.

5. Reports. Probably not anyone’s favorite task during the week, but reports show a clear delineation of work that was done over the course of a week or month. Remember – reports don’t have to be very long, or in a format that clogs up a lot of your time. A simple email detailing tasks completed for the week shows your clients what they’re paying for, and thus, keeps them happy.

Hopefully, by following these steps, you’ll be on a road to an even better relationship with your clients. By following this process, you’ll most likely achieve better results in your work, too."

I believe that what the OP is referring to falls under number 2, “Under-Promise, Over-Deliver”. Unfortunately, ANet’s approach to marketing is usually exactly the opposite.

“ZOMG, you guys, HUUUUUUUGE changes GALORE!!11!” followed by a prolonged, dragged-out, over-hyped trickle of information about features that don’t really affect veteran players that much is not efficient managing of expectations.

And yes, I know that they aren’t done announcing things yet, and supposedly some of the upcoming announcements are for features that will have a greater impact on veteran players. But this policy of “hype, trickle, hype, trickle” dramatically affects the players’ willingness to accept these communications with a positive attitude. By the time they hear something that they like, they’re so annoyed that they no longer care.

ANet, I encourage you to seriously rethink how you communicate.

Spreading the information release over several weeks keeps people interested and active, assuming you care about what’s coming. It’s simply something to look forward to each day and keeps the regularly expected release schedule alive. Obviously holding information back can also backfire when you can’t see the big picture.

If they released it all at once, it would generate a lot of discussion at first but that would be it. People would soon quit talking about it and start complaining about the lack of updates and communication. In response, ArenaNet would have to be more active, but with their social media/word of mouth marketing strategy, they want you to be the one talking about the game.

Ok I Did It.2854:

did we really need to move minis to the wardrobe

A mini tab/equip/copy WoW has been a requested feature since launch. All the feature pack changes have been related to common requests/complaints during the first year.

Olvendred.3027:

It’s the exact same thing that happened with precursor crafting.

imo, it was almost ready and they scrapped it. Hints of precursor crafting and a possible new legendary were data mined quite a while ago. Legendaries were meant to be long term goals and anyone that casually plays for a year can afford one (from personal experience). Rather than make them even more common and suffer through the complaints of old vs new pricing, they probably dropped the idea and instead planned for an entire new set of legendaries to be released with the next big thing (like the unveiling of Mordremoth for example).

I must agree. There is only one thing that I don’t like so far in the feature pack, but there is also nothing that excites me. The way it was advertised built up expectations. I did not expect any particular dazzling thing unlike many others, but I did expect something more than: “OK. That can probably be useful or at least it won’t hurt”.

I’m definitely excited about the better frame rate at large events.

I don´t think overhyped PR is the core-problem.

They simply didn´t deliver much this year, even more for players who don´t care about “living” story.

This may be due to China-release, but also due to the things they work on behind closed doors (hopefully!).

Many are starving for new content and Anet´s PR should be about the bigger things coming, about meaningfull projects they are working on for the next half year or even longer.

The business-decision to not talk about that is the problem, forcing them to overhype the little they can reveal (whoever “higher up in the chain” was stupid enough to make such a decision – NCSoft?).

Huge changes to the commander system.

Aka 3 new colours.

Don’t get me wrong I like a lot of the stuff the patch is doc. Just stop treating me like an idiot with the hype machine. It’ll just backfire.

Vayne.8563:

I’m definitely excited about the better frame rate at large events.

That’s not a feature though. Just a hotfix. Some of the things that have gotten blog posts are like going to a movie theater for a sneak peak at a trailer. No thanks. Do I appreciate the changes? Yeah! Do they need blog posts? I think a lot of them would have been in the patch notes 1 and a half years ago. When they finally fix the myriad Mesmer issues that have been around forever it should just be in the patch notes because that’s where fixes go.

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

I’m definitely excited about the better frame rate at large events.

That’s not a feature though. Just a hotfix. Some of the things that have gotten blog posts are like going to a movie theater for a sneak peak at a trailer. No thanks. Do I appreciate the changes? Yeah! Do they need blog posts? I think a lot of them would have been in the patch notes 1 and a half years ago. When they finally fix the myriad Mesmer issues that have been around forever it should just be in the patch notes because that’s where fixes go.

Actually I wouldn’t call making changes to client and server side a “hot fix”. It’s far more than that. It’s optimization.

Edit: I believe that it’s probably a lot more work than most people think it is.

They used to package these things with tradional expansions (of content) in the past (and much more, guildhalls, capes, heros professions, skills etc.). Now its smeared out in 3 weeks of time with PR. That way it looks underwelming if your used to the good old whe get one big chunk of everything in a paid expansion. That feels a lot meatier, doesn’t it

Let’s keep at least one thing in perspective that people seem to have forgotten. While it’s not an expansion, it’s also just five months since the last feature patch, during which time China was launched.

All things considered, the real problem was people getting hyped for it.

I’m sure this update represents a tremendous amount of work. If I did this much work and people had no appreciation for it, I’d be demoralized.

Probably wouldn’t make me want to write more code. But that’s just me.

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

“I’m going to kick you in the crotch…” Do you need a test to know its bad?

Some people can do math in their heads faster than others that’s true, but those people already explained a thousand times why even on paper those changes are bad. Besides, it’s not only this time they are including things without proper analysis or not being honest with the real intentions behind the change.

Vayne.8563:

All things considered, the real problem was people getting hyped for it.

I’m sure this update represents a tremendous amount of work.

I was already hyped for the last feature patch: all sigils and runes will become usefull, they said. Must have been a tremendous amount of work and brainstorming to bring a sigil from +10% vulnerability duration up to +20% duration . .

So in the end I found myself demoralized – of course if I hadn´t been hyped I probably could gladly enjoy this great sigil now.

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

“I’m going to kick you in the crotch…” Do you need a test to know its bad?

Some people can do math in their heads faster than others that’s true, but those people already explained a thousand times why even on paper those changes are bad. Besides, it’s not only this time they are including things without proper analysis or not being honest with the real intentions behind the change.

If I had a nickle for every time something was supposed to be good on paper turned bad, I’d be pretty rich. I’ve also had experts and people in the know tell me how bad something was that worked out.

Logic can only take into account known facts. There are too many unknowns here. The system is too complex. For example, what if it’s only for leveling and once you hit 80 it doesn’t perform that way anymore?

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

“I’m going to kick you in the crotch…” Do you need a test to know its bad?

Some people can do math in their heads faster than others that’s true, but those people already explained a thousand times why even on paper those changes are bad. Besides, it’s not only this time they are including things without proper analysis or not being honest with the real intentions behind the change.

If I had a nickle for every time something was supposed to be good on paper turned bad, I’d be pretty rich. I’ve also had experts and people in the know tell me how bad something was that worked out.

Logic can only take into account known facts. There are too many unknowns here. The system is too complex. For example, what if it’s only for leveling and once you hit 80 it doesn’t perform that way anymore?

I’m still betting on “reverse scaling effect” where at lower levels it’s more influential but as you hit 80 it’s less influential. Based on “you’ll barely notice” from Stephanie.

Edit: Reattributed the comment, found link.

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

“I’m going to kick you in the crotch…” Do you need a test to know its bad?

Some people can do math in their heads faster than others that’s true, but those people already explained a thousand times why even on paper those changes are bad. Besides, it’s not only this time they are including things without proper analysis or not being honest with the real intentions behind the change.

If I had a nickle for every time something was supposed to be good on paper turned bad, I’d be pretty rich. I’ve also had experts and people in the know tell me how bad something was that worked out.

Logic can only take into account known facts. There are too many unknowns here. The system is too complex. For example, what if it’s only for leveling and once you hit 80 it doesn’t perform that way anymore?

Then you will have a lot of lvl 80 medium and heavy wearer players cursing they didn’t get enough Wool, Cotton and Linen while leveling and now need to spend a lot of gold in the TP.

Like I said, its not the only change that it’s bad… how can you justify things like the Silver fed o’matic? You need to do elementary school math to realize how bad it is… and you only need 5 minutes. How can a dev propose, program and get approved with something like this is beyond logic. That is the true problem, not the change itself.

Mesket.5728:

There is absolutely nothing that indicates there will be any kind of dimishing effect while you level up. Actually we have a red reply saying it will be otherwise, it will affect 80’s as it will affect lvl 1.

Can you link me the post? I’m not up for trawling for it and the one I remember was specifically in response to someone asking if it would be an issue at level 80 and the response was “it would be barely noticeable”.

And the thread derailed into asking “why if it’s not notable would you make the change at all?” and other stuff so I stopped following it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

There is absolutely nothing that indicates there will be any kind of dimishing effect while you level up. Actually we have a red reply saying it will be otherwise, it will affect 80’s as it will affect lvl 1.

Can you link me the post? I’m not up for trawling for it and the one I remember was specifically in response to someone asking if it would be an issue at level 80 and the response was “it would be barely noticeable”.

And the thread derailed into asking “why if it’s not notable would you make the change at all?” and other stuff so I stopped following it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/6#post4343796

Mesket.5728:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

There is absolutely nothing that indicates there will be any kind of dimishing effect while you level up. Actually we have a red reply saying it will be otherwise, it will affect 80’s as it will affect lvl 1.

Can you link me the post? I’m not up for trawling for it and the one I remember was specifically in response to someone asking if it would be an issue at level 80 and the response was “it would be barely noticeable”.

And the thread derailed into asking “why if it’s not notable would you make the change at all?” and other stuff so I stopped following it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/6#post4343796

. . . which said exactly what I said it had earlier, it says nothing about Level 1’s being the same as Level 80’s.

I’m still combing through the Dev Tracker, but I’m not finding the one post where they say “nope, it’s a flat unchanging rate through your entire level range”.

This is the “initial one”, still same thread though.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/5#post4343055

Edit: No, it does not touch on the “what’s your level” subject. I have not seen such a comment.

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

“I’m going to kick you in the crotch…” Do you need a test to know its bad?

Some people can do math in their heads faster than others that’s true, but those people already explained a thousand times why even on paper those changes are bad. Besides, it’s not only this time they are including things without proper analysis or not being honest with the real intentions behind the change.

If I had a nickle for every time something was supposed to be good on paper turned bad, I’d be pretty rich. I’ve also had experts and people in the know tell me how bad something was that worked out.

Logic can only take into account known facts. There are too many unknowns here. The system is too complex. For example, what if it’s only for leveling and once you hit 80 it doesn’t perform that way anymore?

Then you will have a lot of lvl 80 medium and heavy wearer players cursing they didn’t get enough Wool, Cotton and Linen while leveling and now need to spend a lot of gold in the TP.

Like I said, its not the only change that it’s bad… how can you justify things like the Silver fed o’matic? You need to do elementary school math to realize how bad it is… and you only need 5 minutes. How can a dev propose, program and get approved with something like this is beyond logic. That is the true problem, not the change itself.

The silverfed salvomatic has nothing to do with the update. If I wanted to point out every flaw in any game during a two year period, I’m pretty sure I could go on for a long time. Look at pretty much any MMORPG forums. For the record though, the silverfed salvomatic was ridiculous.

However, there are lots of things I can justify. I’ve leveled on a mesmer. I find that leveling on a warrior or guardian provides far more loot per hour than leveling on a mesmer. Even with the change, leveling on a mesmer isn’t likely going to net you as much as leveling on a warrior or guard. You get credit for more things. You get credit for more events. You get more hits, more damage, more kills and thus more loot faster.

It was really nice to kill stuff and spend X amount of time instead of X-Y amount of time. Necros have relatively poor AOE for events too. Do you really think anything a necro or mesmer can do with one of their weapons equates to a guardian staff for farming?

As I said there are far too many variables to know until we see it. I can tell you this much. Leveling a mesmer, I’m pretty certain I made less than half of what I made leveling a guard.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

There is absolutely nothing that indicates there will be any kind of dimishing effect while you level up. Actually we have a red reply saying it will be otherwise, it will affect 80’s as it will affect lvl 1.

Can you link me the post? I’m not up for trawling for it and the one I remember was specifically in response to someone asking if it would be an issue at level 80 and the response was “it would be barely noticeable”.

And the thread derailed into asking “why if it’s not notable would you make the change at all?” and other stuff so I stopped following it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/6#post4343796

. . . which said exactly what I said it had earlier, it says nothing about Level 1’s being the same as Level 80’s.

I’m still combing through the Dev Tracker, but I’m not finding the one post where they say “nope, it’s a flat unchanging rate through your entire level range”.

Unequal drops between classes are unequal drops between classes. At level 80, any percentage of difference is a bad thing.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

There is absolutely nothing that indicates there will be any kind of dimishing effect while you level up. Actually we have a red reply saying it will be otherwise, it will affect 80’s as it will affect lvl 1.

Can you link me the post? I’m not up for trawling for it and the one I remember was specifically in response to someone asking if it would be an issue at level 80 and the response was “it would be barely noticeable”.

And the thread derailed into asking “why if it’s not notable would you make the change at all?” and other stuff so I stopped following it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/6#post4343796

. . . which said exactly what I said it had earlier, it says nothing about Level 1’s being the same as Level 80’s.

I’m still combing through the Dev Tracker, but I’m not finding the one post where they say “nope, it’s a flat unchanging rate through your entire level range”.

Because if it would have any kind of diminishing effect while leveling they would’ve mention it already and if you ever programmed a video game before you know what kind of trouble you have to go through to implement that. It won’t be one unless they are working on it now. And even IF they do that, it won’t change the fact that the change in concept is bad. Not bad because having loots by your profession is bad but bad because it is inconsistent with the current game. That change alone without changing the recipes its bad. No need for deeper analysis, testing, or other economy-wannabe replies like its going to even out. If you’ve been here long enough you know where this is going. Expect more and more light armor players farming out there.

Rouven.7409:

This is the “initial one”, still same thread though.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/5#post4343055

Okay, answered what I wanted to know about.

By the by? If I’m reading this right, it still shouldn’t be an issue like Mesket is going on about. (I’ll note if I don’t get more wool/linen in the new system then I’m still as bad off as I was originally and not worse off.)

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

“I’m going to kick you in the crotch…” Do you need a test to know its bad?

Some people can do math in their heads faster than others that’s true, but those people already explained a thousand times why even on paper those changes are bad. Besides, it’s not only this time they are including things without proper analysis or not being honest with the real intentions behind the change.

If I had a nickle for every time something was supposed to be good on paper turned bad, I’d be pretty rich. I’ve also had experts and people in the know tell me how bad something was that worked out.

Logic can only take into account known facts. There are too many unknowns here. The system is too complex. For example, what if it’s only for leveling and once you hit 80 it doesn’t perform that way anymore?

Then you will have a lot of lvl 80 medium and heavy wearer players cursing they didn’t get enough Wool, Cotton and Linen while leveling and now need to spend a lot of gold in the TP.

Like I said, its not the only change that it’s bad… how can you justify things like the Silver fed o’matic? You need to do elementary school math to realize how bad it is… and you only need 5 minutes. How can a dev propose, program and get approved with something like this is beyond logic. That is the true problem, not the change itself.

The silverfed salvomatic has nothing to do with the update. If I wanted to point out every flaw in any game during a two year period, I’m pretty sure I could go on for a long time. Look at pretty much any MMORPG forums. For the record though, the silverfed salvomatic was ridiculous.

However, there are lots of things I can justify. I’ve leveled on a mesmer. I find that leveling on a warrior or guardian provides far more loot per hour than leveling on a mesmer. Even with the change, leveling on a mesmer isn’t likely going to net you as much as leveling on a warrior or guard. You get credit for more things. You get credit for more events. You get more hits, more damage, more kills and thus more loot faster.

Sorry, the amount of straw in this straw man argument stopped me. Seriously… if you can’t see the relation between all patches and the lack of knowledge on their own game then you can’t see the real issue.

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

Even though I agree conceptually with what the OP says… I disagree that the patch itself isn’t an issue.

Some changes they are proposing are bad. Simple as that. They will impact the game in a wrong way (I’m looking at you loot by profession). It’s concerning that they implement things like that (and others in the past). It shows we know more of the game than they know, no matter how many “statistics” they want to mention. I don’t buy it anymore. It’s simply wrong, in theory, in math, in practice.

I really hope they get their heads into the game and do things positive for the players or at least be honest and confess they have plans for the future that don’t include us vets.-

Sorry I don’t judge if something is bad or good till I’ve tried it and played it. I know some people think it’s bad. But no one really knows…and won’t likely know for some time.

“I’m going to kick you in the crotch…” Do you need a test to know its bad?

Some people can do math in their heads faster than others that’s true, but those people already explained a thousand times why even on paper those changes are bad. Besides, it’s not only this time they are including things without proper analysis or not being honest with the real intentions behind the change.

If I had a nickle for every time something was supposed to be good on paper turned bad, I’d be pretty rich. I’ve also had experts and people in the know tell me how bad something was that worked out.

Logic can only take into account known facts. There are too many unknowns here. The system is too complex. For example, what if it’s only for leveling and once you hit 80 it doesn’t perform that way anymore?

Then you will have a lot of lvl 80 medium and heavy wearer players cursing they didn’t get enough Wool, Cotton and Linen while leveling and now need to spend a lot of gold in the TP.

Like I said, its not the only change that it’s bad… how can you justify things like the Silver fed o’matic? You need to do elementary school math to realize how bad it is… and you only need 5 minutes. How can a dev propose, program and get approved with something like this is beyond logic. That is the true problem, not the change itself.

The silverfed salvomatic has nothing to do with the update. If I wanted to point out every flaw in any game during a two year period, I’m pretty sure I could go on for a long time. Look at pretty much any MMORPG forums. For the record though, the silverfed salvomatic was ridiculous.

However, there are lots of things I can justify. I’ve leveled on a mesmer. I find that leveling on a warrior or guardian provides far more loot per hour than leveling on a mesmer. Even with the change, leveling on a mesmer isn’t likely going to net you as much as leveling on a warrior or guard. You get credit for more things. You get credit for more events. You get more hits, more damage, more kills and thus more loot faster.

Sorry, the amount of straw in this straw man argument stopped me. Seriously… if you can’t see the relation between all patches and the lack of knowledge on their own game then you can’t see the real issue.

I can see the real issue. The issue is people are judging something before seeing it. That’s the real issue.

I read the math, I believe the math, therefore the math must be right. There’s no possibility the math could be wrong.

Except for one thing. The people doing the math…they didn’t see the patch either.

Mesket.5728:

Because if it would have any kind of diminishing effect while leveling they would’ve mention it already and if you ever programmed a video game before you know what kind of trouble you have to go through to implement that. It won’t be one unless they are working on it now.

I don’t do coding, because I’m too far behind studying for it. What I do know is how to stack randomization in favor of certain things, because I play MTG and live deck manipulation is sort of a thing you do in that game. (Legally.)

And it’s possible to just do something like this: Roll three times, take the result which seems the most advantageous. But I’m not going to speculate on mechanics they don’t want us seeing the internals of.

And even IF they do that, it won’t change the fact that the change in concept is bad. Not bad because having loots by your profession is bad but bad because it is inconsistent with the current game.

Aaaand you’ll need to explain this one.

That change alone without changing the recipes its bad. No need for deeper analysis, testing, or other economy-wannabe replies like its going to even out. If you’ve been here long enough you know where this is going. Expect more and more light armor players farming out there.

Of course I do. I also expect they won’t get much farther than the other classes, but will say how awesome they are for metagaming the system and making up anecdotal evidence over how it works. Much like people who claim their account is “flagged” never to get a Precursor drop.

Just to be sure we’re on the same page, PR = Pink Rhinoceros, right?

Also, it’s not ‘Stephanie’, its Stephane with a thingee over the e. (I also initially read it as Stephanie.)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stéphane_Lo_Presti

Carry on!

could someone fill me in? What is this all about?

cesmode.4257:

could someone fill me in? What is this all about?

Well it was largely Vayne appealing to ArenaNet to trying to tone down their “Exciting!” rhetoric since it seems overhyping is still an issue.

Now it’s a discussion, again, about profession loot.

Once you’re at level 80, you’re generally getting a lot more drops than you were when levelling, and you’re probably not equipping any of them. The vast majority are salvaged or sold. So loot drops equate directly to gold. When an ele, a warrior and an engi are in a party and kill a mob, they will each be rolling on different loot tables. At present prices, the engi will tend to get less valuable loot, than the warrior, who will tend to get less valuable loot than the ele. The more mobs they kill, the more pronounced the difference (that’s how RNG works).

The thing is, it doesn’t matter how players change and the markets shift. Cloth prices may drop or leather may rise. Rare pistols may suddenly be valuable, while rare greatswords are dirt cheap. Whatever. At any point in time, there will be some classes who have a loot table stacked in favour of more valuable loot, while other classes have loot tables stacked in favour of less valuable loot.

No matter what build they play, if they’re harcore famring or happily soloing map completion. They will get unequal loot just because of the class they’re playing. People won’t stop playing the classes they like, but they will be punished for it in terms of loot.

Olvendred.3027:

Once you’re at level 80, you’re generally getting a lot more drops than you were when levelling, and you’re probably not equipping any of them. The vast majority are salvaged or sold. So loot drops equate directly to gold. When an ele, a warrior and an engi are in a party and kill a mob, they will each be rolling on different loot tables. At present prices, the engi will tend to get less valuable loot, than the warrior, who will tend to get less valuable loot than the ele. The more mobs they kill, the more pronounced the difference (that’s how RNG works).

The thing is, it doesn’t matter how players change and the markets shift. Cloth prices may drop or leather may rise. Rare pistols may suddenly be valuable, while rare greatswords are dirt cheap. Whatever. At any point in time, there will be some classes who have a loot table stacked in favour of more valuable loot, while other classes have loot tables stacked in favour of less valuable loot.

No matter what build they play, if they’re harcore famring or happily soloing map completion. They will get unequal loot just because of the class they’re playing. People won’t stop playing the classes they like, but they will be punished for it in terms of loot.

Well the article said that while leveling you’ll get more appropriate drops. That doesn’t necessarily translated to at 80 you’ll get more appropriate drops.

Vayne.8563:

Olvendred.3027:

Once you’re at level 80, you’re generally getting a lot more drops than you were when levelling, and you’re probably not equipping any of them. The vast majority are salvaged or sold. So loot drops equate directly to gold. When an ele, a warrior and an engi are in a party and kill a mob, they will each be rolling on different loot tables. At present prices, the engi will tend to get less valuable loot, than the warrior, who will tend to get less valuable loot than the ele. The more mobs they kill, the more pronounced the difference (that’s how RNG works).

The thing is, it doesn’t matter how players change and the markets shift. Cloth prices may drop or leather may rise. Rare pistols may suddenly be valuable, while rare greatswords are dirt cheap. Whatever. At any point in time, there will be some classes who have a loot table stacked in favour of more valuable loot, while other classes have loot tables stacked in favour of less valuable loot.

No matter what build they play, if they’re harcore famring or happily soloing map completion. They will get unequal loot just because of the class they’re playing. People won’t stop playing the classes they like, but they will be punished for it in terms of loot.

Well the article said that while leveling you’ll get more appropriate drops. That doesn’t necessarily translated to at 80 you’ll get more appropriate drops.

It applies at level 80. We don’t know the percentages for the precise details, but as an absolute fact, you will be rolling on different loot tables for different classes.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Aaaand you’ll need to explain this one.

(quoting someone else who said it first with this words) “Different drops for different classes is bad”.

We all know you are not going to equip what you loot. Never ever (unless you are still gearing up which is part of your newbie days/first month or 2 of playing) so everything you loot is coin. More coin to some classes just because? Even if it is 0,000000001% its conceptually wrong… Do you really need more explanation?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Now it’s a discussion, again, about profession loot.

because there are forum users out there that still don’t get it

Didn’t Mr. Incredible from the movie ‘The Incredibles’ say something like "They keep coming up with new ways to celebrate mediocrity! "

Is that whats happening here?