Guild Wars 2

You done ….. it up.
I like 30$ pricetag (albeit being european i’ll have to shell out 30 euros, ouch). But that’s cool. Not overpriced like HoT was at launch.

What’s not cool is going back on your policy “New xpac makes previous ones free”.
Now don’t get me wrong – just the fact you’re reading this means i’m not a free player. I personally purchased both core and HoT.
But the place you goofed bigtime is in gliding.

Many players love gliding. Many love mounts (not me though).
But guess what? If you kept your old promise you could’ve made maps with gliding and mounts in’em. HoT crowd would be happy, mount lovers would be happy.

But now cause of “Player can have PoF without HoT” policy you couldn’t do that and made your desert that much more..arid (pun intended).
Now you’re gonna end up with one crowd happy (yay! mounts!), but another displeased (where are my glider sections?!).

Inconsistency can bite you in the ass for sure..

Have you tried getting up up to the top of that first pyramid we see in the demo and glide down to that mastery point that is locked off because of quicksand ?

You can glide in the new map.

Just as you can glide in core tyria. But i mean real gliding sections, with updrafts, glider puzzles etc. They wouldn’t have to be glider exclusive – mounted players can get to given point their own way, glider lovers their own.

But because of that decision of theirs gliding exists no more then in core tyria maps and that sucks.
Something they should’ve considered given almost everyone loved gliding. There was a lot of stuff where HoT didn’t please the crowds, but gliding was not one of them.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

You done ….. it up.
I like 30$ pricetag (albeit being european i’ll have to shell out 30 euros, ouch). But that’s cool. Not overpriced like HoT was at launch.

What’s not cool is going back on your policy “New xpac makes previous ones free”.
Now don’t get me wrong – just the fact you’re reading this means i’m not a free player. I personally purchased both core and HoT.
But the place you goofed bigtime is in gliding.

Many players love gliding. Many love mounts (not me though).
But guess what? If you kept your old promise you could’ve made maps with gliding and mounts in’em. HoT crowd would be happy, mount lovers would be happy.

But now cause of “Player can have PoF without HoT” policy you couldn’t do that and made your desert that much more..arid (pun intended).
Now you’re gonna end up with one crowd happy (yay! mounts!), but another displeased (where are my glider sections?!).

Inconsistency can bite you in the ass for sure..

Do you notice Anet can actually make it work both ways?

There could be a mount that can reach high place, while there’s also ways to use gliding to get to that point as well.

This is only the beta, and we don’t know what other mounts function atm.

Aomine.5012:

This is only the beta, and we don’t know what other mounts function atm.

ArenaNet did post the mounts and what they do. If you care to see, they’re listed here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/path-of-fire/#mounts

(…or if I misunderstood you, sorry.)

We should all listen to the OP he has played all 5 maps /s

Hope dies last, doesn’t it.

Gliding was a great feature of HoT and they know it. If PoF maps were glider friendly they would be quick to announce it as a sales pitch.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Hope dies last, doesn’t it.

Gliding was a great feature of HoT and they know it. If PoF maps were glider friendly they would be quick to announce it as a sales pitch.

Hmm. I disagree with your assumption. They aren’t bundling the feature so why would they harp on something that the potential customer may not have? They’re making a big push to sell THIS expansion. Part of that is wanting players to feel like they don’t have to buy a bunch of stuff to catch up (after all, “catching up” to high level play is something GW2 has bucked all along).

Further, why would they need to try pushing HoT? GW2 is part platformer at its core. Always has been. Gliding is a REALLY fun mechanic for a platformer. When you see it, you want it. The glider, just by existing, will continue to make people want to buy HoT.

Then regarding the glider’s use… Have you ever used the glider in the original maps? What about Dry Top? Silverwastes? I know I have. Those maps weren’t designed for gliding, but it’s a REALLY convenient feature to have. My own assumption (which holds true SO FAR in the beta) is that this expansion will work similarly. I expect gliding to be a CONVENIENCE, never a REQUIREMENT to get anywhere.

I think the Living World Season 3 maps were a good indication of ArenaNet’s mindset toward masteries. You get platforming abilities that are unlocked roughly one map at a time. You’ll primarily use those abilities in that map, but they may also have SOME use in the next. …but the platforming tools you’re unlocking are for that general area – nowhere else. I don’t expect to use nuhoch wallows in the original game. I don’t expect them in PoF. I don’t expect to need gliding in the old world. I don’t expect to need it in PoF. It’ll just be a lot of fun to have. =)

ArenaNet never stated, “New xpac makes previous ones free”.

What they did state was that previous expansions and current expansions would be offered bundled at a single price point.

I used gliding in the new map to get places I could not get to on my Mount. Seems like they have a place in the desert.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I used gliding in the new map to get places I could not get to on my Mount. Seems like they have a place in the desert.

I’d pick at that a little. We don’t have all the mounts yet. Gliding is temporarily useful for what has yet to be unlocked. I believe it’ll remain useful. I just doubt anything in PoF (except MAYBE some achievement stuff…MAYBE) would be unreachable to those without gliders.

I didn’t (mean to) imply one would not be able to get places with access to all varieties of Mounts. My point was that gliding has its uses in the new (demo area of the) map. As opposed to the opening post stating there was no opportunities or use for gliding there.

You can look at it from a different perspective. ArenaNet is selling their game for 50 dollars . That includes the base game, HoT and PoF. As a buy to play game, the price is very reasonable.

Now if you already have HoT – as the base game became free to play, granted with restrictions – you get a discount and you can buy the game for 30 dollars instead.

This is what people asked for with the previous expansion to get a discount if they already own the base game.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I didn’t (mean to) imply one would not be able to get places with access to all varieties of Mounts. My point was that gliding has its uses in the new (demo area of the) map. As opposed to the opening post stating there was no opportunities or use for gliding there.

Ah, my bad. I read the context of the topic into it. Understood. =)

ZeftheWicked.3076:

What’s not cool is going back on your policy “New xpac makes previous ones free”.

That was never the policy. It was this: “In the future, if we release further Guild Wars 2 expansions, we plan to offer all of the prior expansions, the core game, and the latest expansion for one single purchase price”.

And there it is, all the prior expansions, the core game, and the latest expansion for 50

ZeftheWicked.3076:

You done ….. it up.
I like 30$ pricetag (albeit being european i’ll have to shell out 30 euros, ouch). But that’s cool. Not overpriced like HoT was at launch.

What’s not cool is going back on your policy “New xpac makes previous ones free”.
Now don’t get me wrong – just the fact you’re reading this means i’m not a free player. I personally purchased both core and HoT.
But the place you goofed bigtime is in gliding.

Many players love gliding. Many love mounts (not me though).
But guess what? If you kept your old promise you could’ve made maps with gliding and mounts in’em. HoT crowd would be happy, mount lovers would be happy.

But now cause of “Player can have PoF without HoT” policy you couldn’t do that and made your desert that much more..arid (pun intended).
Now you’re gonna end up with one crowd happy (yay! mounts!), but another displeased (where are my glider sections?!).

Inconsistency can bite you in the ass for sure..

they never promised anything, they just said older expansions would be included in the purchase and that’s what they did, you can purchase both

you paid 50$ for Guild Wars 2
new players paid 50$ for Heart of Thorns and Guild Wars 2
you can pay 50$ for Heart of Thorns, Path of Fire and base Guild Wars 2

if you complain about this you are nothing but an entitled kid

Did they ever say hot would go free when pof releases? I dont think so. And i would annoy me if they did. Its ok to have bundles for newcommers with a more fair price but goving stuff i payed for free other than the base game is an insult to the face.

My bad then i guess, but as i stated clearly (which you nitpickers love to miss), it’s not about money. I already purchased both base and HoT when they were fresh.

The point is that because of the sales model PoF cannot respect HoT masteries and those of us who enjoyed gliding sections, mushrooms etc are now to be stuck with mounts in new xpac, like it or not (I don’t).

And no, Being able to just “glide down” is not real gliding sections. Real gliding sections are maps with updrafts, where you actually have to navigate and use your masteries to get to your desired place with glider. PoF is same as core Tyria in that regard. Yeah you can glide, but these maps were never designed for it. Puzzles are around mounts, not glider.

Had they made PoF a natural extension of HoT, mount lovers would lose nothing, while gliding fans wouldn’t feel left in a mud with zoo they didn’t ask for.

I agree with the OP. The fact that not everyone who owns PoF will also own HoT (and features unique to HoT, such as gliding) means that they won’t be able to design content accordingly. So, while you can glide in the new maps, there will never be a map design in PoF that follows the HoT map design model.

If you hated the vertical HoT map design, then you can take comfort in the expectation that you won’t see any of that in PoF. However, if your favorite maps are maps like Verdant Brink and Bloodstone Fen, you can lower those expectations right now because you will never see that in PoF.

I am still looking forward to PoF, but knowing that my favorite map design elements are precluded by this choice is a major letdown for me.

Well, I guess the choice was to add HoT and charge the $50 dollars, or separate the purchases, and offer just PoF for $30. Considering the feedback last time that was tried, I can see why they went with this model.

In the Dev interviews, it sounded like there will be places where one might encounter some Gliding-specific mechanics, but that there would be other ways to traverse the content, as well. Probably should wait and see what the entire expansion and Living World Season 4 has to offer.

zealex.9410:

Did they ever say hot would go free when pof releases? I dont think so. And i would annoy me if they did. Its ok to have bundles for newcommers with a more fair price but goving stuff i payed for free other than the base game is an insult to the face.

How is that an insult? You played HoT for 2 years. I think you got your money’s worth.

This choice also doesn’t come consequence free. We’ve already discussed the way it forces the designers to work under the assumption that not all players will own all expansion content. But from the player perspective, it also segments the population. We saw this manifest in a major way in PvP, where the HoT elite specs all but destroyed the competitive atmosphere for non-HoT players. But moving forward, how annoying will it be to try to group with other players when we have multiple expansions and everyone owns different pieces?

Personally, I think they’d be better off including all previous content under the current purchase price and discounting that price to players who purchased previous content. Charge $50 for PoF, but only $30 if you purchased HoT, and maybe $20 if you purchased both HoT and the original game. Everyone is on the same page except people who didn’t pay anything at all.

I think more players would stick with the game and return to it it spend money in the cash shop this way, and it would be far less annoying to both players and developers.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, I guess the choice was to add HoT and charge the $50 dollars, or separate the purchases, and offer just PoF for $30. Considering the feedback last time that was tried, I can see why they went with this model.

In the Dev interviews, it sounded like there will be places where one might encounter some Gliding-specific mechanics, but that there would be other ways to traverse the content, as well. Probably should wait and see what the entire expansion and Living World Season 4 has to offer.

Again, nobody is saying that gliding won’t be a factor in the new maps. I’m sure there will be areas where gliding will allow you to bypass obstacles and/or reach objectives more directly. But the point is that they can’t design the maps to require gliding. Thus you will never see maps like VB or BF. They simply can’t design maps that way unless everyone has access to gliding. So, if that’s what you love then you will be disappointed to find that this will never be a part of PoF map design.

And for those that didn’t care for maps like VB or BF, I suppose it would be considered a blessing. If such maps were included, perhaps some would not consider purchasing.

No matter the design decisions, some will be thrilled, and others less so.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

But the place you goofed bigtime is in gliding.

Many players love gliding. Many love mounts (not me though).
But guess what? If you kept your old promise you could’ve made maps with gliding and mounts in’em. HoT crowd would be happy, mount lovers would be happy.

But now cause of “Player can have PoF without HoT” policy you couldn’t do that and made your desert that much more..arid (pun intended).

You have got cause and effect wrong;

The original planning was:
HoT-masteries work only in HoT-maps (season 3 maps are HoT-maps).
PoF-masteries work only in PoF-Maps (season 4 maps are PoF-maps)

Only because of the big success of gliding and because a lot of players asked for it, gliding was also enabled in Core-Tyria-maps (and now others) and in the future mounts will be enabled in Core-Tyria.

This has nothing to do with the way the expacs are sold/bundled.

It is a valid opinon, that you like gliding but not mounts and that you want more maps that are designed for gliding. But your arguments are flawed.

Topic has been done and finished. I guess the op missed the interaction with Gaile. The OP is has not comprehended what Anets’ pricing problem is and has based it on something ANET has never said.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/PoF-Purchase-Clarification/first#post6663777

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

And for those that didn’t care for maps like VB or BF, I suppose it would be considered a blessing. If such maps were included, perhaps some would not consider purchasing.

No matter the design decisions, some will be thrilled, and others less so.

You’d think they would have learned from the mistake of designing maps all one way in an expansion. But I guess we’ll see what happens.

I swear, everyone who complains about them nit designing PoF maps around gliding must have never played GW1… The Crystal Desert region and Northern Elona were both very flat regions when compared to Maguuma. Even though there are canyons and mountains throughout the desert, none of them were anywhere near as big as the ones in Maguuma. Even with the reawakening of the elder dragons the landscape of Tyria has hardly changed since the events of GW1. No one shoukd be expecting them to redesign the landscape of an established region just to incorporate the need for gliders.

Mounts may not be everyones cup of tea, but PoF is the best expansion for them to add them in, just like HoT was the best expansion for them to add gliding. The landscapes in GW2 are designed around their original GW1 versions with very little variation in establisbed regions.

For the love of Tyria, just accept that the studio changed their minds and stop perpetuating the falsehood that the original quote describes ‘a la carte’ pricing. You can not describe ‘a la carte’ pricing without describing the definitive feature of ‘a la carte’ pricing, that items can be purchased individually. Consumers do not need to be told that the price of item A can be added to the price of item B. That is especially true if we understand the context of the quote; players were asking whether the studio would be using an ‘a la carte’ or a ‘meal’ pricing model. The quote describes ‘meal’ pricing.

In the context of game expansions, there are two ways to rationalize how the ‘meal’ price is calculated. Either past expansions aren’t included in the the price (they are free) or they are included (players who purchased the older expansion are charged again).

If they made HoT “free” with PoF, like they made vanilla “free” with HoT, you’d be paying 50,- for PoF instead of 30.

Or does anyone still believe the whole “Oh no guys, we may have bundled HoT with Vanilla, but we totally didn’t make it more expensive! 50 is all for the expansion because thats what it costs!”

Then comes PoF, its sold just the expansion without anything tagged on and it’s 30. Oh but wait, you can get the bundle of PoF with HoT and it’s 50 again.

Seems selfevident to me why we’re paying so much less now than we did for HoT.

Panda.1967:

I swear, everyone who complains about them nit designing PoF maps around gliding must have never played GW1… The Crystal Desert region and Northern Elona were both very flat regions when compared to Maguuma. Even though there are canyons and mountains throughout the desert, none of them were anywhere near as big as the ones in Maguuma. Even with the reawakening of the elder dragons the landscape of Tyria has hardly changed since the events of GW1. No one shoukd be expecting them to redesign the landscape of an established region just to incorporate the need for gliders.

Mounts may not be everyones cup of tea, but PoF is the best expansion for them to add them in, just like HoT was the best expansion for them to add gliding. The landscapes in GW2 are designed around their original GW1 versions with very little variation in establisbed regions.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

I’m liking what I’ve done so far. Very happy to see some throwback. Elona was always my favorite area. The detail with the mount is awesome imo. Can’t wait for full PoF release.

I see your point. But i do see from a business stand point you don’t want to limit your players playing experience in a expansion. Also requiring all previous expansions for the current expansion could be asking a lot for people. HoT did not appeal to some.

I do think it would be cool if they added something for people who bought HoT though. Maybe a place we can glide and get a treasure chest. Not needed for story or PoF but as a thank you for buying HoT.

As for the price. I think they did it right this time. When HoT came out everyone complained about $50 and not a $30 version. They felt like they were paying twice for the core game. Offering both HoT and PoF for $50 OR PoF for $30 is perfect.

Jeez no matter what Anet do they seem to kitten of someone. It aint a flop OP. You just don’t agree with it. If they did it the other way then it would be seen as “spitting on the people who paid good money for HoT”.

Panda.1967:

I swear, everyone who complains about them nit designing PoF maps around gliding must have never played GW1… The Crystal Desert region and Northern Elona were both very flat regions when compared to Maguuma. Even though there are canyons and mountains throughout the desert, none of them were anywhere near as big as the ones in Maguuma. Even with the reawakening of the elder dragons the landscape of Tyria has hardly changed since the events of GW1. No one shoukd be expecting them to redesign the landscape of an established region just to incorporate the need for gliders.

Mounts may not be everyones cup of tea, but PoF is the best expansion for them to add them in, just like HoT was the best expansion for them to add gliding. The landscapes in GW2 are designed around their original GW1 versions with very little variation in establisbed regions.

Sorry, no, I didn’t play GW1. I didn’t start with this franchise until after HoT, which I personally thought was by far the best open world content available in any MMO I’ve tried.

And who says they need to rework the entire feel of the area to include vertical maps? What if we discovered a new underground cave system? Or if we had something mostly in the sky above something like Bloodstone Fen? There’s no reason you need to trash the old to bring in the new. But, of course, since they decided not to include HoT content with PoF purchase, they can’t do that. Like I said, disappointing for those of us who were hoping for a vertical map or two in the expansion.