Guild Wars 2

I would love to see counter to condition damage just like we have counter to berzerker, toughness. We only have condition duration, but what it matters the most is damage.

-25%-40% of condition damage reduction food would be extremely nice and welcome!

I do not remember that a food give 500 to 800 toughness.
And the counter to condition damage is vitality, that exists.

Firelysm.4967:

I would love to see counter to condition damage just like we have counter to berzerker, toughness. We only have condition duration, but what it matters the most is damage.

-25%-40% of condition damage reduction food would be extremely nice and welcome!

No food gives so much toughness that it negates 25-40% direct damage damage.

The question is where would you use this.
In WvW = not really there are nearly no condi dmg player
In pve = there is no condi dmg enemy
In Roaiming = only here and only against condi player this would make condi useless again.

Lemongrass…..

-40% incoming condi duration.

It is a direct counter as condi’s damage is due to it not being cleansed.

Now, before you complain that they can use Rare/Super Veggie Pizza you’re just starting a circular argument. If you are both running +/- X you are both operating at normal values. Thus it comes down to player skill.

Keep this link handy….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Food

Everything you need to know

Kulvar.1239:

I do not remember that a food give 500 to 800 toughness.
And the counter to condition damage is vitality, that exists.

Counter to power damage is vitality and toughness.
Counter to condition power is only vitality which is worthless if you think about it, it only gives you maybe 20% more survivability, which means, from 5 sec > 6 sec, if you cannot cleanse conditions in the next second.

DanAlcedo.3281:

The question is where would you use this.
In WvW = not really there are nearly no condi dmg player
In pve = there is no condi dmg enemy
In Roaiming = only here and only against condi player this would make condi useless again.

Then you don’t play WvW much, why exactly does EVERY commander drop a Lemongrass food?

There is no need for PvE food on first place because nothing matters in Open world, nothig matters on boss fights, and nothing matters in dungeons, the minority that could have use of food is lvl50 fractals, because if you cannot sync spike then your food has no meaning on the first place.

TexZero.7910:

Lemongrass…..

-40% incoming condi duration.

It is a direct counter as condi’s damage is due to it not being cleansed.

Now, before you complain that they can use Rare/Super Veggie Pizza you’re just starting a circular argument. If you are both running +/- X you are both operating at normal values. Thus it comes down to player skill.

And that’s exactly what argument i was about to say!
The only way you can counter condition is to reduce X% of the damage.

Slalom.3174:

Keep this link handy….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Food

Everything you need to know

Nothing is there my son , i know about every food that exists, and there is no real direct counter to condition damage.

Sub counter is : vitality, condition duration
Direct counter: % of condition damage reduction

While in berzerker world toughness is with other words reducing damage by %.

Vitality IS a direct counter.

The biggest counter to conditions is to remove them and there is actually a food, which can do this …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Saffron-scented_Poultry_Soup

Firelysm.4967:

DanAlcedo.3281:

The question is where would you use this.
In WvW = not really there are nearly no condi dmg player

Then you don’t play WvW much, why exactly does EVERY commander drop a Lemongrass food?

To reduce the effect of CCs, like immob, cripple and chill?
It’s not really used to reduce condi damage per se. (But then again, maybe this food is exactly why zergs don’t use condition damage very often.)

Honestly, I’d rather just see condition duration (positive and negative) foods be completely removed or changed. They’re such a massive bonus that taking either is borderline mandatory in WvW, while at the same time making condition damage builds having access to waaaaay better food buffs than power builds in PvE.

Firelysm.4967:

TexZero.7910:

Lemongrass…..

-40% incoming condi duration.

It is a direct counter as condi’s damage is due to it not being cleansed.

Now, before you complain that they can use Rare/Super Veggie Pizza you’re just starting a circular argument. If you are both running +/- X you are both operating at normal values. Thus it comes down to player skill.

And that’s exactly what argument i was about to say!
The only way you can counter condition is to reduce X% of the damage.

No, there’s plenty of other ways to counter conditions….

Cleanse
Dodge
LoS
Generosity
Any number of weapon skills
Any number of heal skills
Any number of runes
Any number of utility skills

Im not going to list everything…it’s entirely possible to counter condi’s.

Kulvar.1239:

Vitality IS a direct counter.

Vitality also counters physical damage.

On one hand there are foods remove condition when using healing skills, on the other hand here are foods steal health on critical hits which scale with power.

Sizer.3987:

Vitality also counters physical damage.

Exactly. Who said a counter should only work on one thing?

If you fear conditions that much maybe look into :

TRAITS:

• removal of conditions on dodge,
• removal on skill (type) use
• immunity (mostly conditional) (obsidian flesh?)

BUFF

• Resistance

FOOD:

• Bowl of Lemongrass and Poultry soup (expensive)
• Bowl of Poultry and Leek Soup (fairly cheap)
• Loaf of Saffron Bread (really cheap)
• Sweet Bean Buns (extremely expensive)
• Bowl of Saffron-scented Poultry Soup (no experience)

SIGILS

• Generosity
• Cleansing
• Purity

RUNES of

• resistance
• hoelbrak
• melandru
• antitoxin
• sunless
• soldier

Condi cleansing:
And a build having decent acces to condition removals or in case of runes of the soldier: Shouts (warrior, guardian, ranger, tempest)

Field Combos
You could use projectile or whirl finishers in a light field…

And that’s about it. You can become very immune to conditions with a lot of classes

Regarding Stats:

Armor and toughness have no use vs condition dmg

Vitality really doesn’t work as well except give you a few additional ticks if you’re lucky (though some builds can stack 4-8k damage per tick in 2 or 3 seconds leaing you with 2 or 3 seconds to counter. But going full sentinels with runes of the soldier is likely a bit overkill…

Healing cannot remove condition (well sometimes it actually can with food or certain heal skils like consume conditions (necro) but poison will deminish healing and the time to cast the ability could kill you.

Regen however will offset a small amount of bleeds or poison, (also from healing signet, adrenal health, virtue of resolve, signet of the wild, soothing mist) but it will not cure them.

Never fear from conditions again: Sentinel shout cleanser warrior
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNBJhN6knDozDsyDwUQgOEMUFUaPE75Au4bdAkvwHkCA-TxRJABEfKAA4JAQz+D5o8bP1fOSJ4Z6DIDAzYA-e

Vitality should also give a little % of condition damage resist.

edit: or at least ofc, some fixes to zerk or condition mechanics. zerk needs 3 stats to works. condition 1 or 2.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

The biggest counter to conditions is to remove them and there is actually a food, which can do this …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Saffron-scented_Poultry_Soup

nice

Shirlias.8104:

Vitality should also give a little % of condition damage resist.

edit: or at least ofc, some fixes to zerk or condition mechanics. zerk needs 3 stats to works. condition 1 or 2.

conditions will need 3 stats and food else it will be useless..

• 1st you’ll need condition dmg (and preferably precision as many apply on crit) to do dmg, no stacks is no pressure….. and cleanses will remove stacks.
• 2nd you’ll need condition duration (most likely in the form of:
  - runes (10-45%),
  - sigils (10-20%),
  - build (25-33%),
  - utility (10%),
  - food (40%))
  No duration makes continues pressure a problem
• 3rd you’ll need TIME remember conditions are damage over TIME… and to make sure you are alive to see the results of your conditions tends to be nice
  you can use a variety of options: Toughness, (and maybe Vitality or Healing), you can reduce time needs by using Power…. but you’ll be glass (most likely) if you do. the chane you’ll be using might and be using might boosting runes will be bigger as well…

Well pax, now tell me what equip do you use.

While waiting i will answer your questions

1) you need condition damage, and some builds needs precision too. you got an extra free secondary stats ( usually toughness ) which makes you tanky. Zerk can’t
2) There’s no equipment for condition duration. Nice try btw, but we were talking about stats ( vitality ) and there’s no1 with condition duration stats ( some uses the generic sigil ).
3) you need time as zerk needs more time to kill you tanky player. while your damage is not reduced by anything. Maybe the new boon will be good against conditions but hell, im not that sure.

Shirlias.8104:

Well pax, now tell me what equip do you use.

While waiting i will answer your questions

2) There’s no equipment for condition duration. Nice try btw, but we were talking about stats ( vitality ) and there’s no1 with condition duration stats ( some uses the generic sigil ).

What is giver’s weapons for 1000 alex ?

The main stat resource are the weapons.
And u re telling me u re gonna trade 250 condition dmg and 180 toughness for 20% condition duration an 180 precision?

Funny guy.

ps: not to mention, it’s also not avaible on spvp.

Shirlias.8104:

The main stat resource are the weapons.
And u re telling me u re gonna trade 250 condition dmg and 180 toughness for 20% condition duration an 180 precision?

Funny guy.

ps: not to mention, it’s also not avaible on spvp.

Neither is food, so your point is extremely invalid

Now then are you going to tell me you would pass up the chance to increase your burn duration to 100% ?

If so….well that’s on you. Damage is only greater if people cleanse properly, if they don’t duration is better. Let’s not also forget that Duration Effects non-damaging conditions, such as immob. Allowing for a single immob to last upwards of 6seconds. Enjoy going back to spawn fast if you do not immediately cleanse that.

Condition damages ignore toughness and armor. Therefore condition damages usually come with smaller values and usually reduce health over time, with exceptions of burning and poison which stack over intensity.

Condition damages can be mitigated just as direct damages. In GW1, there is a tactic to use weak conditions (hex) to cover strong conditions to render condition cleanse useless. In GW2, condition specialized builds can constantly applying number of conditions to exhaust any cleansing abilities. In GW2, active or preemptive defensive like dodge, blind, block, interrupt, and sheath are preferred in combat over reactive healing and cleansing.

TexZero.7910:

Shirlias.8104:

The main stat resource are the weapons.
And u re telling me u re gonna trade 250 condition dmg and 180 toughness for 20% condition duration an 180 precision?

Funny guy.

ps: not to mention, it’s also not avaible on spvp.

Neither is food, so your point is extremely invalid

Now then are you going to tell me you would pass up the chance to increase your burn duration to 100% ?

If so….well that’s on you. Damage is only greater if people cleanse properly, if they don’t duration is better. Let’s not also forget that Duration Effects non-damaging conditions, such as immob. Allowing for a single immob to last upwards of 6seconds. Enjoy going back to spawn fast if you do not immediately cleanse that.

Nope, but still nice try.

We were talking about stats.
Giver is a stats set, and no1 use it.

Just cause is better have condition dmg.

Do this, log in and try different setups with giver and condition ( there are also various calculators online ). Then return and edit your post.

Here’s a calculator http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ ( you can also try by yourself or check on “metabattle” for endgame builds ).

Really dude, there’s no need talking about which is better, cause everybody know which is.

Why you pretend trying new metas while others re doing this too since long time and with better results?

Shirlias.8104:

Well pax, now tell me what equip do you use.

While waiting i will answer your questions

1) you need condition damage, and some builds needs precision too. you got an extra free secondary stats ( usually toughness ) which makes you tanky. Zerk can’t
2) There’s no equipment for condition duration. Nice try btw, but we were talking about stats ( vitality ) and there’s no1 with condition duration stats ( some uses the generic sigil ).
3) you need time as zerk needs more time to kill you tanky player. while your damage is not reduced by anything. Maybe the new boon will be good against conditions but hell, im not that sure.

I use
Conditions (7):
- sinister on 5 characters (mostly PvE)(grd,war,rng,nec,msm)
- rabid on 2(WvW), (nec,rng)
Support (5):
- zealot on 4 (PvE,WvW) (ele, war,nec,grd) with zerk trinkets in pve and clerics in wvw.
- nomads and clerics (WvW build) (grd)
Power (5):
- zerk on the others (dungeons/fractals/pve) (war,ele,msm,rng,thf)
and I use my engineer as mule atm.

Gear is more then just the basic stats alone. I consider my runes and sigils part of my gear, and while food and utility are consumables they will fit in a build. as do trait selections.

And trust me you can use stats: giver’s weapons.
20% condition duration for 2h weapon
10% for 1 handed.
I can get builds up to 1600-1700 condition dmg… then 20% from weapon and 10% from sigil and 6% to compensate some condi dmg lost with bursting will outweigh 250 condition dmg yes… cause it will be more powerfull with givers if given time… if I can keep the duration higher: the pressure will be higher… and I’ll have some freedom to change stuff… (WvW…)

Understand:
Zerk (Burst) is powerfull against squishy targets,
Conditions should be used to counter highly armored enemies including condi builds…

• fighting a dire condi build is easier on any condi build
• fighting a soldiers build is easier on any condi build
• fighting a sinister/rampager/carrion build is easier on a zerk (burst) build (armor is -no- help
• fighting a zerk/assassin build is easier on a zerk (burst) build (though some armor can be of help.)

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Shirlias.8104:

Well pax, now tell me what equip do you use.

While waiting i will answer your questions

1) you need condition damage, and some builds needs precision too. you got an extra free secondary stats ( usually toughness ) which makes you tanky. Zerk can’t
2) There’s no equipment for condition duration. Nice try btw, but we were talking about stats ( vitality ) and there’s no1 with condition duration stats ( some uses the generic sigil ).
3) you need time as zerk needs more time to kill you tanky player. while your damage is not reduced by anything. Maybe the new boon will be good against conditions but hell, im not that sure.

I use
Conditions (7):
- sinister on 5 characters (mostly PvE)(grd,war,rng,nec,msm)
- rabid on 2(WvW), (nec,rng)
Support (5):
- zealot on 4 (PvE,WvW) (ele, war,nec,grd) with zerk trinkets in pve and clerics in wvw.
- nomads and clerics (WvW build) (grd)
Power (5):
- zerk on the others (dungeons/fractals/pve) (war,ele,msm,rng,thf)
and I use my engineer as mule atm.

Gear is more then just the basic stats alone. I consider my runes and sigils part of my gear, and while food and utility are consumables they will fit in a build. as do trait selections.

And trust me you can use stats: giver’s weapons.
20% condition duration for 2h weapon
10% for 1 handed.

Understand:
Zerk (Burst) is powerfull against squishy targets,
Conditions should be used to counter highly armored enemies including condi builds…

fighting a dire condi build is easier on any condi build
fighting a soldiers build is easier on any condi build
fighting a sinister build is easier on a zerk build
fighting a zerk build is easier on a zerk build

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

link your builds and show me givers re way better than condition.

Last part u wrote is correct ( real problem is sinister characters re rares ).
But is something like:

Zerk have more dmg output and can take down easy other zerks ( faster than condi ).
Condi re better or good ( see the line above, cause against zerk re not the top ) against all, but needs less skill, have more armor can make mystakes. Which Sucks.

Also, one player can reduce all damage from physical skills, but can only incrase his healt against condition. Which is not fair as damage reduction.

ps: i don’t know why u re explaining what builds u use in pve or wvw.

btw thread was about condition dmg.

shortly

against physical dmg we have

-boon > protection
-Stat > toughness

Against condition we have
-boon > the new one ( i don’t remember its name ) but is rarer than protection. also is not a flat reduction but stop dmg for a short
-Stat > vitality. Which is not worh as protection.

Also, protection use 1 secondary stat less.
Would be nice if they will be a bit more fair.

Shirlias.8104:

TexZero.7910:

Shirlias.8104:

The main stat resource are the weapons.
And u re telling me u re gonna trade 250 condition dmg and 180 toughness for 20% condition duration an 180 precision?

Funny guy.

ps: not to mention, it’s also not avaible on spvp.

Neither is food, so your point is extremely invalid

Now then are you going to tell me you would pass up the chance to increase your burn duration to 100% ?

If so….well that’s on you. Damage is only greater if people cleanse properly, if they don’t duration is better. Let’s not also forget that Duration Effects non-damaging conditions, such as immob. Allowing for a single immob to last upwards of 6seconds. Enjoy going back to spawn fast if you do not immediately cleanse that.

Nope, but still nice try.

We were talking about stats.
Giver is a stats set, and no1 use it.

Just cause is better have condition dmg.

Do this, log in and try different setups with giver and condition ( there are also various calculators online ). Then return and edit your post.

Here’s a calculator http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ ( you can also try by yourself or check on “metabattle” for endgame builds ).

Really dude, there’s no need talking about which is better, cause everybody know which is.

Why you pretend trying new metas while others re doing this too since long time and with better results?

Lol you’re hilarious.

The two step you are doing is grand. First you say PvP, now you’re trying to overlay PvE dungeon meta to make yourself feel adequate.

It really is great that you have no idea how much better hitting a duration cap is.

Against condition: every cleanse ability. Try cleansing physical damage.

Resistance is like invuln not like protection (no damage for a short duration).

1st as Giver’s doesn’t exist in PvP: I have made a PvE/WvW build, which includes food

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAscTjMdQlH2CCefAnIGWCsLAsAmZaUII0EyXwNoCC-TxRGABAcKA+TJovq/Asyv20Hw2+D6+EAIFQfLrA-e

(bit more hp, 5% more condition duration, but 40% incoming condition reduction)

vs

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAscTjMdQlH2CCefAnIGWCsLAsAmZaUII0EyXwNoCC-ThRGABAcKA+TJovq/AsyP22fQ3nAoPgUALqsC-e

bit more power, 5% less condition duration…

I wonder which of the 2 would win… with equally skilled players. just a remark, Either you kill it or you die. There is no try..

but in effect both should have roughly these numbers when stacked and fighting.:
1st giver 2nd sinister.
power 2650 3000
condi 2550 2800
duration 65% 20% (effectively due to duration reduction) (oh, bleeds get +33%)
swrd/hit 1000 1100 (auto)
final trust 4k 4.5k

both will use fire aura, have (perma) regen from banners, and their signets, signet can be used for resistance if you would think of it. but I thik it would be a LOS battle with LB’s and the first pin down will likely win..

This also shows you why a lack in one field can be decisive. The few HP from givers will not win the battle, but coupled to the difference in condition duratio It will be a decisive difference. power difference will not matter either.

If you’d take warhorns instead off offhand sword and mending, and lose fgj for shake it off this would be a very long battle…. VERY long… provided you do not get below 50%

I’m too cheap to do -40% food so I do -20% AND -20% dmg received while stunned. Protects somewhat against condi but also from zerk gankers that cc first.
Since the saffron bread is so cheap I get trays so people who are too cheap to run food at all can grab it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tray_of_Saffron_Bread

@Pax: both are squishy builds.

Think u didn’t cared about toughness cause u made em to be one, or judging by skills for pve, against the other ( correct me if i am worng ). Btw, i was thinking about builds made to play against all kind of builds ( so, for an instance zerk, toughness woul be very helpfull ).

Not only condition vs condition ( the one who dodges better and uses better cd. also both utility skills and runes/sigils re meant for pve, i guess. No zerk stance for an instance. Right? I’m asking cause you said “I have made a PvE/WvW build, which includes food” ).

Also the typical scenario is not 1v1 fair duel, but group vs group ( or maybe 1v2, if 5v5 ).

I agree with thread starter.

We have something to mitigate physical direct dmg ( protection/toughness ) but nothing against condition ( i mean, when they are on, you can only remove em. you can’t reduce their damage ).

With hot we’ll get Resistance as boon, but it’s not good as protection ( not atm ).

- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resistance
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection

the difference between them are simple:
- Protection is avaible for many classes ( as skill only for warrior healing signet. as utility only 3 classes “if” chill is removed ), and can be active for the most of the time.
- Also can be spread aoe.
- At last, Resistance stops time. so you can stop suffer from condition damage, but enemy can end his cd while condition re still at previous stacks. something like 10 bleeding stacks > Resistance > 20 bleeding stacks.

I would prefer taking 35% less condition damage than stop conditions for 5 seconds.

Just to play Devil’s Advocate

If Toughness is the counter to Direct Damage, Vitality is the counter to Condition Damage.