Q:
As im sure we are all aware, current state of no cd on the 6p bonus of perplexity isnt just providing a nice opportunity for classes without confusion to have some access. Its going a step further, and allowing classes with interrupts on low cooldowns to permanantly keep high levels of confusion on players (engi, mes, war), or to spam very high stacks rapidly (thief).
There has already been a Red post acknowledging the imbalance, can we get an update on when these changes might hit?
Per my previous jab on the Dec 10th balance changes, a balance patch without a perplexity change isnt much of a balance patch. Thanks!
Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.
Thanks guys!
(edited by Raven.9603)
Not in sPvP = isn’t an issue…
Seems like a poor attitude to have and I hope arena net doesn’t share it.
Not in sPvP = isn’t an issue…
Perplexity Runes are definitely on our radar. I talked with our designers about this and you can expect some changes to this rune-set in the near future. I don’t have specific details on what changes we’ll be making, but I figured I’d let you guys know that we are looking at it.
Thanks guys!
Why do players like you after destroy anything half decent?
Confusion is not a problem.
Your just destroying the game with your nerf it attitude.
Try adapting your build and l2p.
Why do players like you after destroy anything half decent?
Confusion is not a problem.
Your just destroying the game with your nerf it attitude.
Try adapting your build and l2p.
Srsly? Perma 25 confu stack what hits for 7k+ on every action and you say it isnt problem? I am sure you forgot take your pills today because there isnt any other explanation how you can write something so absurd.
Why do players like you after destroy anything half decent?
Confusion is not a problem.
Your just destroying the game with your nerf it attitude.
Try adapting your build and l2p.
Srsly? Perma 25 confu stack what hits for 7k+ on every action and you say it isnt problem? I am sure you forgot take your pills today because there isnt any other explanation how you can write something so absurd.
Just someone who uses them and is so reliant on the build that they can’t even consider going back to a fully functioning version of the game where they didn’t exist at all.
But their balanced, totally…
Why do players like you after destroy anything half decent?
Confusion is not a problem.
Your just destroying the game with your nerf it attitude.
Try adapting your build and l2p.
Srsly? Perma 25 confu stack what hits for 7k+ on every action and you say it isnt problem? I am sure you forgot take your pills today because there isnt any other explanation how you can write something so absurd.
Please remain polite.
IMHO the problem is not the rune. Since a long time people complained about confusion, and it was reduced in PvP/ WvWvW. They continue to complain now.
You can not demand skill > everyting else, when everything, that requires skill is nerfed, and there is no need to learn how to counter confusion.
I was never hit by confusion for more than 2k (without beeing zerged, and either way dead). With avg 20k, it’s not worse than bleeding/ torment.
If somebody manages it to get somehow 25 stacks of confusion up, with a decent duration (I can but you’d have to help me), he’d deserve that kill. If you however take 25 sacks of confusion, it’s most likely your fault, for spaming abilities, which has to be punnished.
This rune is only annoying in 1v1 (or general smallscale WvW), and stun-lock & 100blades warriors are by far more, than confusion.
tl;dr: Don’t nerf the rune. Get a decent 1v1 build. Look at your conditions and think.
PS: They might reduce the duration or add an internal CD (1s or sth) but this wouldn’t change much.
I assume it will get an ICD.
If somebody manages it to get somehow 25 stacks of confusion up, with a decent duration (I can but you’d have to help me), he’d deserve that kill. If you however take 25 sacks of confusion, it’s most likely your fault, for spaming abilities, which has to be punnished.
He “deserves” the kill?
If you can put up 8+ stacks of confusion and keep it there, which is easy to do against even the best classes in the game at condition removal taking all condi-removal traits and utilities, then the target simply cant fight back, period. There is a huge difference between confusion creating breathing room by punishing people for attacking, and having so much of it that the target cant use any skills at all. The latter example doesnt entitle the perplexity user to a kill, it highlights a shortcoming in the game.
as for “its your fault”; keep in mind that not all interrupts are telegraphed (hello sleight of hand, head-shot, etc), nor does the attack interrupted need to be a 2-5 ability. any auto attack counts. telling someone its their fault an auto attack got interrupted is a fallacy / catch 22; it implies that people should just stand around not attacking at all because they might get interrupted which will apply a condition that damages them for if they attack again, which of course is another opportnity to be interrupted.
the counter play to confusion is cleanse availability, duration reduction and cooldowns. but if confusion has no (or too short of a) cooldown because of perplexity, then there is no counter play, which is the current state of things.
I wasnt really looking for a perplexity debate, that debate already happened and the devs said theyre looking to change it. I was looking for “how” and “when” can the community expect these improvements.
(edited by Raven.9603)
I wasnt really looking for a perplexity debate, that debate already happened and the devs said theyre looking to change it. I was looking for “how” and “when” can the community expect these improvements.
About “how”, mind to re-read my post?
“When”, there was no date mentioned, and it’s currently not gambreaking(imho). Either they will come up with something creative, in the next days, and we’ll see it in Dec. If there will be no change til feb, I wouldn’d expect a change, unless interrupts would be changed.
It most likely won’t happen until at least after WvW Season 1 is over.
Well aren’t hammer warriors getting a damage nerf? And thiefs a slight initiative nerf? This might indirectly affect how powerful perplexity can be, if you end up dodging a couple of interupts you may end up with much more life than before…
Please do fix this rune set. Tired of it always being a draw when I fight some one 1v1 with perplexity spam. While we’re at it. Fix regen warriors aka unkillable gods.
I’m positive I read in the dec 10 preview page -somewhere- that they will be addressed.
ive got hardly any problem with the runes to be honest, ive got quite good at countering them, the difficulty and my mean reason in being against them is that there is no ICD making it impossible to wait out the confusion to get your burst, being a shatter mes, 5 stack of confusion can kill me due to completing about 10-15 actions in 1 burst its obsurd
The only people who really have the a problem wight the runes are the same ppl who call thieves OP and the same people who can’t simply dodge a slow warrior hammer attack.
I don’t think nerfing them into the ground is gonna be the change or simply putting it on ICD. ICD would only nerf its potency for warriors, engineers, and anyone else who isn’t a thief since ICD intentions are basically to prevent potential in AoEs which of course would not drastically effect a thief since it would only be a mere strat change. If anything they’ll try to maintain or improve its accessibility while addressing gimmick strats like headshot counter spam. Lately their trend is improving functionality of runes to improve build diversity. Certainly confusion stacks will go down that’s for sure but I’m sure there’s gonna be other changes to it that will still make it a considerable rune set.
For those stating that “its the players fault for allowing the counter to begin with” or “get skill l2p”, as valid as these statements are, we need to keep in mind that unlike the first guildwars that fed us all these tools to properly learn the content and learn the game accordingly, guildwars 2 lacks this specific direction(Think starting the nightfall campaign or factions, the tutorial was for the most part merged into the story campaign, guildwars 2 does not do this in any shape aside from testing zones in the spvp lobby). By rights perplexity runes are trivial and are easily counterable but because of the dynamic of the player base, there’s just too much of a giant opportunity to exploit the foundations that were not built to improve the overall mindset of the guildwars 2 community.
As much fun as I do have with these runes, it is understandable to see how it can frustrate casual players.
I should have been more clear. I don’t think ICD alone will be the only change to the runes, like you suggested it will probably lose some stacks as well. But I believe we’ll see an ICD added all the same.
I’ll remember to keep note of things that kills me so instead of getting better, I’ll just open a post asking for nerfs…
Works in wow, working here now… seems it is more effective than thinking. True Story.
I have never died to confusion…as soon as you see it…condition removal…no problem.
If you can’t stop spamming your skills, notice the confusion icon, not equip enough condition removal on your character or refuse to turn your auto attack off then its your own fault.
I have never died to confusion…as soon as you see it…condition removal…no problem.
If you can’t stop spamming your skills, notice the confusion icon, not equip enough condition removal on your character or refuse to turn your auto attack off then its your own fault.
Condi removal has a cooldown, perplexity does not. It’s not confusion thats the problem, its that without a icd these runes outstrip all their counters.
By rights perplexity runes are trivial and are easily counterable but because of the dynamic of the player base, there’s just too much of a giant opportunity to exploit the foundations that were not built to improve the overall mindset of the guildwars 2 community.
As much fun as I do have with these runes, it is understandable to see how it can frustrate casual players.
That was most tactful backhanded insult ive seen on the forums all week. So players who see perplexity as a problem are noobs/casuals who need to L2P and simply didn’t L2P because the game, unlike GW1, didnt handhold them to a higher skill level?
This is the recent Xsorus guide, arguably one of the best Rangers in the community (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkHpSawTA8&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw). At the 2min mark, he mentions his rune choices and talks about powerful perplexity runes are. Note that his build has only 3 long cooldown interrupts.
I wonder what would happen if he had more interrupts or interrupts without cooldown? Lets take a look:
This is a video of a thief in greens with only offhand pistol equipped and only half of his trait points spent defeating people with headshot spam proccing perplexity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umKuvv_d-4o).
This is a video of Koroshi, one of the best streaming engineers, doing some wvw and demonstrating how easy it is to load up 22 stacks of confusion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQdahy5wjnU). If you look up Yishi’s engi videos (a well known thief), the number 1 Question he answers in his About section is defending criticism for his choice to use these runes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQd53qlCvo8).
Here is a warrior from oPP demonstrating the runes (mature language warning)(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauWil91bug); To be fair, he admits in the title to having something against the runes. Here is another vid by someone else, showing the ease of application (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsQbe_BPjmk).
Just about every single condi mesmer build uses these runes, so not going to bother with a vid, but here is a quote from arguably the best mesmer in the game, straight from our forums:
Hi Osicat, what do u thinkk about Perplexity rune for wvw/pve?
@Hesy Ra, Wvwvw a gift from God, Pve a close to usless rune set.
Perplexity counters include dodging the interrupt, cleansing, and stability. But all these counters have cooldowns, and without a cooldown on these runes, no amount of these counters makes a difference. Dodging 2 headshots (which arent telegraphed, so gg) and cleansing the 3rd aren’t going to buy you a reprieve from another headshot.
(edited by Raven.9603)
I have never died to confusion…as soon as you see it…condition removal…no problem.
If you can’t stop spamming your skills, notice the confusion icon, not equip enough condition removal on your character or refuse to turn your auto attack off then its your own fault.
Condi removal has a cooldown, perplexity does not. It’s not confusion thats the problem, its that without a icd these runes outstrip all their counters.
By rights perplexity runes are trivial and are easily counterable but because of the dynamic of the player base, there’s just too much of a giant opportunity to exploit the foundations that were not built to improve the overall mindset of the guildwars 2 community.
As much fun as I do have with these runes, it is understandable to see how it can frustrate casual players.
That was most tactful backhanded insult ive seen on the forums all week. So players who see perplexity as a problem are noobs/casuals who need to L2P and simply didn’t L2P because the game, unlike GW1, didnt handhold them to a higher skill level?
This is the recent Xsorus guide, arguably one of the best Rangers in the community (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkHpSawTA8&feature=c4-overview&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw). At the 2min mark, he mentions his rune choices and talks about powerful perplexity runes are. Note that his build has only 3 long cooldown interrupts.
I wonder what would happen if he had more interrupts or interrupts without cooldown? Lets take a look:
This is a video of a thief in greens with only offhand pistol equipped and only half of his trait points spent defeating people with headshot spam proccing perplexity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umKuvv_d-4o).
This is a video of Koroshi, one of the best streaming engineers, doing some wvw and demonstrating how easy it is to load up 22 stacks of confusion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQdahy5wjnU). If you look up Yishi’s engi videos (a well known thief), the number 1 Question he answers in his About section is defending criticism for his choice to use these runes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQd53qlCvo8).
Here is a warrior from oPP demonstrating the runes (mature language warning)(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gauWil91bug); To be fair, he admits in the title to having something against the runes. Here is another vid by someone else, showing the ease of application (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsQbe_BPjmk).
Just about every single condi mesmer build uses these runes, so not going to bother with a vid, but here is a quote from arguably the best mesmer in the game, straight from our forums:
Hi Osicat, what do u thinkk about Perplexity rune for wvw/pve?
@Hesy Ra, Wvwvw a gift from God, Pve a close to usless rune set.
Perplexity counters include dodging the interrupt, cleansing, and stability. But all these counters have cooldowns, and without a cooldown on these runes, no amount of these counters makes a difference. Dodging 2 headshots (which arent telegraphed, so gg) and cleansing the 3rd aren’t going to buy you a reprieve from another headshot.
Hi Raven, I apologies for not wording my statement properly, what I meant is that not a lot of tutorials are instructed to the player in regards to the core mechanics to the game, making it difficult to understand the options available to a player.
I’ve been watching some of the fights in the youtube videos you have linked but to be quite honest, it enforces my statement more than yours. Many of those who are losing to the player in the video are either going in blind, taking bait, or are not up to snuff to the target.
The thief video for example showcases a longbow warrior using too much of an aggressive play without thinking about the fact that the thief is just baiting for counter, further enforcing my case.
Koroshi is of course a well skilled engineer I am not going to disagree with that but his opponents in the video leave a lot to be desired. At 4:30 minutes for example he is facing a warrior who strikes his static shield without a block bypass later during that session(don’t even get my started on as to why you don’t lead in with shield wall, why that warrior did that I don’t even know). and is running around like a headless chicken, that warrior was also dodging with stacks of confusion while Koroshi was 9 miles away for some unknown reason.
I’m sorry if I sound elitist but I’m gonna need gameplay from top level vs top level players before I buy in.
The only people who really have the a problem wight the runes are the same ppl who call thieves OP and the same people who can’t simply dodge a slow warrior hammer attack.
What this guy said. I had a problem with thieves and perplexity runes until I figured out how to counter them.
The only people who really have the a problem wight the runes are the same ppl who call thieves OP and the same people who can’t simply dodge a slow warrior hammer attack.
What this guy said. I had a problem with thieves and perplexity runes until I figured out how to counter them.
youre joking right? to counter you have to go full condition removal to ensure your actions arent penalised, just try and do that on a mesmer, like i said im not one to normally complain but no ICD is a freaking joke, it needs a 10sec cool down at leaast
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