Guild Wars 2

Possibly ANet could fork the game, so that some servers get the Lost Shores / Ascended Gear / whatever, and some don’t. Then people who want that stuff can move to the servers where they add it, and people who don’t can move to the servers where they don’t. Then ANet can check the population to see how many are in each group. Afterwards they can maybe cater more content to the larger of those groups.

This would require never having WvW match-ups between the two groups, but we already have the NA / Europe split, so this seems doable.

I realize this is extreme, but I think for a lot of people this is the only way this game would remain playable after this weekend.

What about the TP? It would create differences in the economy, making a reverse to the decision nigh impossible.

You are blowing a perceived problem out of proportion. ‘The game would only remain playable without this patch’, really?

Yes, we can have 2 games. Gear Wars 2 and Guild Wars 2. That is an interesting idea.

Heh, it’s not gear wars 2. It’s World of Charrcraft. That’s what it’s been since 2007, and A-net has finally decided to simply throw out all of it’s good ideas and appease the WoW kiddies.

It’s admittedly an emotional thing. A lot of people have grown a real attachment to the way the game is designed, and this radical of an alteration seems like it could make it a largely different game.

The degree to which all of ANet’s responses to the controversy have consisted of spin and intentionally leading statements makes the people who love the game as it is even more wary.

If you split the game and allow free transfers, it gives people who don’t want this an “out”, along with an ability to buy in if they decide it’s not that bad after all.

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

Heh, it’s not gear wars 2. It’s World of Charrcraft. That’s what it’s been since 2007, and A-net has finally decided to simply throw out all of it’s good ideas and appease the WoW kiddies.

Nonsense. What you are doing now is using an indirect ‘slippery slope’ argument. The addition of one tier of equipment does not compare to the way WoW handles equipment tiers.

Until Anet decides to add more tiers to keep the ‘treadmill’ running in the future, we can not speak about a true ‘gear treadmill’.

Don’t let speculation become the source of your complaints.

Thosekittenmain.6328:

You are blowing a perceived problem out of proportion. ‘The game would only remain playable without this patch’, really?

A great number of people have decided they do not want to play a game with a gear treadmill.

A small treadmill is still a treadmill, and inevitably will become a larger treadmill. That’s how the concept works.

It’s not being blown out of proportion. We bought this game because it had things we liked and did not have things we do not like. Lack of mudflation was a major selling point for many of us. Many of us old farts aren’t interested in playing a game that’s going to mess around with that sort of thing, because we have in the past and we understand the game design decisions that a gear treadmill forces, and we do not like those game design decisions.

warmonkey.8013:

A small treadmill is still a treadmill, and inevitably will become a larger treadmill. That’s how the concept works.

Slippery slope argument. You perceive this addition to be a treadmill instead of an extra step on a staircase, thus you assume there will be more tiers in the future.

This is not confirmed and should not be the premise of your argument.

greyblue.4962:

If you split the game and allow free transfers, it gives people who don’t want this an “out”, along with an ability to buy in if they decide it’s not that bad after all.

You do realize how much this can hurt the in-game economies of both versions, if free transfers are possible, right?

warmonkey.8013:

Thosekittenmain.6328:

You are blowing a perceived problem out of proportion. ‘The game would only remain playable without this patch’, really?

A great number of people have decided they do not want to play a game with a gear treadmill.

A small treadmill is still a treadmill, and inevitably will become a larger treadmill. That’s how the concept works.

It’s not being blown out of proportion. We bought this game because it had things we liked and did not have things we do not like. Lack of mudflation was a major selling point for many of us. Many of us old farts aren’t interested in playing a game that’s going to mess around with that sort of thing, because we have in the past and we understand the game design decisions that a gear treadmill forces, and we do not like those game design decisions.

Logical fallacy much?

They’ve confirmed that there will be no new “tiers” of ascended gear already. Maybe you should relax.

Vasham.2408:

Logical fallacy much?

They’ve confirmed that there will be no new “tiers” of ascended gear already. Maybe you should relax.

Where did they confirm that ?? show me

THIS is an overreaction to trump most overreactions.

warmonkey.8013:

It’s not being blown out of proportion. We bought this game because it had things we liked and did not have things we do not like. Lack of mudflation was a major selling point for many of us. Many of us old farts aren’t interested in playing a game that’s going to mess around with that sort of thing, because we have in the past and we understand the game design decisions that a gear treadmill forces, and we do not like those game design decisions.

I dislike the ‘gear treadmill’ as seen in other games as well. There is simply not enough information on the progression of this in GW2 to come to the conclusion that Ascended Gear is the beginning of the end.

At this point, Ascended gear is nothing more than an extra step on a staircase leading to our final destination, not the endless treadmill you make it out to be.

Thosekittenmain.6328:

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

Heh, it’s not gear wars 2. It’s World of Charrcraft. That’s what it’s been since 2007, and A-net has finally decided to simply throw out all of it’s good ideas and appease the WoW kiddies.

Nonsense. What you are doing now is using an indirect ‘slippery slope’ argument. The addition of one tier of equipment does not compare to the way WoW handles equipment tiers.

Until Anet decides to add more tiers to keep the ‘treadmill’ running in the future, we can not speak about a true ‘gear treadmill’.

Don’t let speculation become the source of your complaints.

Maybe you failed to read, but they’re already making new Ascended items required to be able to participate in all content:

“This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.”

The only way to get defense against the condition is infusions, which can only be slotted on Ascended items. When you take into effect that they’ve added in a hard gearscore check to dungeons, and it’s only the beginning…

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.”

Well, you can see exactly where they’re going, with new dungeons adding their own new sets of infused gear, required for the next one…

“We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended items.”

So… yeah, World of Charrcraft. You need Ascended gear to participate in dungeons to get more ascended gear to participate in the next dungeons to get the next ascended gear and so on…

rikuharada.3152:

Vasham.2408:

Logical fallacy much?

They’ve confirmed that there will be no new “tiers” of ascended gear already. Maybe you should relax.

Where did they confirm that ?? show me

It was in that “Thoughts on Ascended Gear” megathread. Lemme dig it up…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/135lrk/arenanet_about_ascended_armor/

Reddit thread on the second announcement. Now for the quote:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.”

Maybe you failed to read, but they’re already making new Ascended items required to be able to participate in all content

One dungeon isn’t all content. Now you’re just outright spewing lies.

Vasham.2408:

warmonkey.8013:

Thosekittenmain.6328:

You are blowing a perceived problem out of proportion. ‘The game would only remain playable without this patch’, really?

A great number of people have decided they do not want to play a game with a gear treadmill.

A small treadmill is still a treadmill, and inevitably will become a larger treadmill. That’s how the concept works.

It’s not being blown out of proportion. We bought this game because it had things we liked and did not have things we do not like. Lack of mudflation was a major selling point for many of us. Many of us old farts aren’t interested in playing a game that’s going to mess around with that sort of thing, because we have in the past and we understand the game design decisions that a gear treadmill forces, and we do not like those game design decisions.

Logical fallacy much?

They’ve confirmed that there will be no new “tiers” of ascended gear already. Maybe you should relax.

Firstly, where, because I’ve not seen that.
Secondly, so what? They call the next tier “Ultra” or something. It’s not a new tier of Ascended!
And thirdly, so what? They also said there would be a gear plateau, that there wasn’t going to be any of this mess. Now there is. So.. I’m supposed to not be upset about them breaking one promise because they make another? Are you serious with that?

This is how gear treadmills work, and there will be exactly as many reasons and arguments for it 3 months from now as there are now — and they’ll just do it again, because they’re doing it now. They’ve ALREADY MADE THE DECISION. It’s a done deal. We will be getting gear-based progression.

I do not ever want to play a game, ever again, that involves gear-based progression. It’s a gimmick that I do not care for and excuses lazy gamemaking and caters to a crowd that is never satisfied with available content. It’s either too hard and they can’t finish it, or it’s too easy and they’re already done.

But hey, cater to that market. They certainly will be sticking arou- oh they’re already back playing with pandas, nevermind.

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

So… yeah, World of Charrcraft. You need Ascended gear to participate in dungeons to get more ascended gear to participate in the next dungeons to get the next ascended gear and so on…

You seem to conventiently forget that the infusions will be dungeon-related. The stats on the Ascended Gear will very likely stay the same.

They added this tiers exactly to avoid the need for the gear treadmill to happen. By cleverly using the infusion slots to challenge players on new higher level content, there is little need to increase the actual stats of these players by introducing additional new tiers.

You only need to farm Ascended Gear once. Afterwards, you only need infusions.

Vasham.2408:

It was in that “Thoughts on Ascended Gear” megathread. Lemme dig it up…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/135lrk/arenanet_about_ascended_armor/

Reddit thread on the second announcement. Now for the quote:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.”

All I get out from that article is them saying they will not be adding a new tier every 3 months. That is no way of a confirm that they will not be adding more new tier in the future. All it is saying is within that specific time frame after ascended is out, there will not be another tier introduce >.>

Who cares if they introduce new tiers or not, they required it to participate in content once. That alone is a slap in the face to the manifesto, and everything the design philosophy stands for.

Thosekittenmain.6328:

warmonkey.8013:

It’s not being blown out of proportion. We bought this game because it had things we liked and did not have things we do not like. Lack of mudflation was a major selling point for many of us. Many of us old farts aren’t interested in playing a game that’s going to mess around with that sort of thing, because we have in the past and we understand the game design decisions that a gear treadmill forces, and we do not like those game design decisions.

I dislike the ‘gear treadmill’ as seen in other games as well. There is simply not enough information on the progression of this in GW2 to come to the conclusion that Ascended Gear is the beginning of the end.

At this point, Ascended gear is nothing more than an extra step on a staircase leading to our final destination, not the endless treadmill you make it out to be.

Exotic gear was the final destination. This is not a step towards it, this is another plateau above our previous final destination.

Legendaries were the final destination of only the few grinders. I was playing the game fine, with exotics till Anet decided I wanted a new tier for gear progression (even a single tier up is gear progression from current gear, as long as the current best gear is no longer the best in stats that is gear progression).

So how is this another step and not a new plateau, that they explicitly told us would not happen.

Let me quote what they used to say, since people will also ask for reference:
“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

It sounds like they’ll eventually make a full legendary tier with slightly higher stats, which sounds a lot like a treadmill, just stretched out longer.

rikuharada.3152:

Vasham.2408:

It was in that “Thoughts on Ascended Gear” megathread. Lemme dig it up…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/135lrk/arenanet_about_ascended_armor/

Reddit thread on the second announcement. Now for the quote:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.”

All I get out from that article is them saying they will not be adding a new tier every 3 months. That is no way of a confirm that they will not be adding more new tier in the future. All it is saying is within that specific time frame after ascended is out, there will not be another tier introduce >.>

Now you’re just raising the goalpost. You wanted the info that states it’s not a gear treadmill. I post it, you respond with, “But it wasn’t worded this particular way.”

It says it right there in black and white. THERE WILL BE NO NEW TIERS OF ASCENDED GEAR.

Thosekittenmain.6328:

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

So… yeah, World of Charrcraft. You need Ascended gear to participate in dungeons to get more ascended gear to participate in the next dungeons to get the next ascended gear and so on…

You seem to conventiently forget that the infusions will be dungeon-related. The stats on the Ascended Gear will very likely stay the same.

They added this tiers exactly to avoid the need for the gear treadmill to happen. By cleverly using the infusion slots to challenge players on new higher level content, there is little need to increase the actual stats of these players by introducing additional new tiers.

You only need to farm Ascended Gear once. Afterwards, you only need infusions.

Actually the stats ARE better, considerably so. It’s at LEAST as big a jump as from Rare to Exotic.

You only need to farm for Ascended gear once…. per character…. per build… but later you’ll get to enjoy farming up an all-new set of end-game gear, because you can’t sit there and tell me that they won’t introduce ANOTHER tier after this. Why wouldn’t they? They just did now after saying they never would, why NOT do it again?

There’s nothing clever about this at all. It’s tiered gear progression, it’s mudflation, call it what you will but this game is about to become completely unremarkable within the MMO market. Absolutely, completely, unremarkable.

rikuharada.3152:

All I get out from that article is them saying they will not be adding a new tier every 3 months. That is no way of a confirm that they will not be adding more new tier in the future. All it is saying is within that specific time frame after ascended is out, there will not be another tier introduce >.>

Then you are forcing your bias on your interpretation of that message. From all the posts Anet makes, it is pretty clear they added the Ascended Gear to account for different variables in new, upcoming dungeons with the use of Infusions.

This new tier is actually done to avoid the gear treadmill, while still being able to challenge players in new ways by using infusions.

I’ll admit I am skeptical as well, but I do not understand the huge amount of panic and disgust over these changes.

warmonkey.8013:

You only need to farm for Ascended gear once…. per character…. per build… but later you’ll get to enjoy farming up an all-new set of end-game gear, because you can’t sit there and tell me that they won’t introduce ANOTHER tier after this. Why wouldn’t they? They just did now after saying they never would, why NOT do it again?

Slippery slop fallacy invades your argument again. You simply do not know that at this point in time!

warmonkey.8013:

Vasham.2408:

warmonkey.8013:

Thosekittenmain.6328:

You are blowing a perceived problem out of proportion. ‘The game would only remain playable without this patch’, really?

A great number of people have decided they do not want to play a game with a gear treadmill.

A small treadmill is still a treadmill, and inevitably will become a larger treadmill. That’s how the concept works.

It’s not being blown out of proportion. We bought this game because it had things we liked and did not have things we do not like. Lack of mudflation was a major selling point for many of us. Many of us old farts aren’t interested in playing a game that’s going to mess around with that sort of thing, because we have in the past and we understand the game design decisions that a gear treadmill forces, and we do not like those game design decisions.

Logical fallacy much?

They’ve confirmed that there will be no new “tiers” of ascended gear already. Maybe you should relax.

Firstly, where, because I’ve not seen that.
Secondly, so what? They call the next tier “Ultra” or something. It’s not a new tier of Ascended!
And thirdly, so what? They also said there would be a gear plateau, that there wasn’t going to be any of this mess. Now there is. So.. I’m supposed to not be upset about them breaking one promise because they make another? Are you serious with that?

This is how gear treadmills work, and there will be exactly as many reasons and arguments for it 3 months from now as there are now — and they’ll just do it again, because they’re doing it now. They’ve ALREADY MADE THE DECISION. It’s a done deal. We will be getting gear-based progression.

I do not ever want to play a game, ever again, that involves gear-based progression. It’s a gimmick that I do not care for and excuses lazy gamemaking and caters to a crowd that is never satisfied with available content. It’s either too hard and they can’t finish it, or it’s too easy and they’re already done.

But hey, cater to that market. They certainly will be sticking arou- oh they’re already back playing with pandas, nevermind.

I have to agree here with you. While they said they wont be adding new tiers every 3 months they never said that they wont be adding new tiers. The fact that they are hoping we will over look that, and all the people pointing to the post by Chris seem to have missed, worries me. They try to put us at rest without actually adressing the issues here. So your bringing in gear with higher stats claiming its needed. Those that point out oh but its obvious that it was always ment to be clearly missed the fact that they will have to redo there legendary’s stats when ascended gear is added seem to hint at the fact that exotic was always ment to be the highest stat. If you want to add infusion as a new tier they could have just made existing gear upgradeable with another slot for the infusion its self, you know like it was in the original. But im sure the wow kiddies will just on me with eather a “Logical fallacy” claim or a “slippery slope” claim. In each case my though on this is sound. Fact is they dident really answer anything other than in 3 months we wont see new tier. But then again they already broke there word on the BIGGEST core point of the game so who can even beleave that?

Vasham.2408:

rikuharada.3152:

Vasham.2408:

It was in that “Thoughts on Ascended Gear” megathread. Lemme dig it up…

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/135lrk/arenanet_about_ascended_armor/

Reddit thread on the second announcement. Now for the quote:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.”

All I get out from that article is them saying they will not be adding a new tier every 3 months. That is no way of a confirm that they will not be adding more new tier in the future. All it is saying is within that specific time frame after ascended is out, there will not be another tier introduce >.>

Now you’re just raising the goalpost. You wanted the info that states it’s not a gear treadmill. I post it, you respond with, “But it wasn’t worded this particular way.”

It says it right there in black and white. THERE WILL BE NO NEW TIERS OF ASCENDED GEAR.

Actually, at no point in that block of text does it say that. Just because you interpreted their PR garbage in that way doesn’t mean that’s what they actually said.

I truly enjoyed Guild Wars and it’s lack of a gear centric design. I had hoped this game would follow in its predecessors footsteps. What I read about the design philosophy for GW2 compelled me to buy it.

This change may be a game breaker for me. I’ll continue to play to see how this inflation of gear stats and gates to content function, but my heart is full of trepidation.

I’m fine with more skins and new areas to explore. I had hoped that progression in this game would be horizontal with new types of weapons and new skills added like in the original Guild Wars.

If this game becomes gear centered it will simply join the legion of other games that do this. The Original Guild Wars was special in that regard.

I may be headed back over to TSW if this game is headed where I think it is.

Greyfeld.7104:

Actually, at no point in that block of text does it say that. Just because you interpreted their PR garbage in that way doesn’t mean that’s what they actually said.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Things like this make it much more likely that Ascended is indeed the final tier, using the infusions to account for the variability in new challenges in end-game content.

Did Anet ever say exotics would be the strongest gear? I know that’s what everyone expected, but who knows if this wasn’t planned out long before the game release?

Patch not even out yet and already people throwing their toys out of their pram. I don’t know if I like this, but I will definitely let it play out and plan what happens after that. Till then, I’m not going to have a sulk like most though. Good luck Arena Net, make it work.

Thosekittenmain.6328:

Slippery slop fallacy invades your argument again. You simply do not know that at this point in time!

This is not a slippery slope fallacy.

That is how gear treadmills work. That is gear-based progression. THAT IS WHAT THAT PHRASE MEANS! That is how the concept is implemented.

I’m saying that 2+2=4 and hence 4+4=8 and you’re calling it a slippery slope.

Besides, I do know that at this point in time. See above. That’s how this sort of thing works. This is mudflation. Ever hear that term? Know what a MUD is? Know how it came to be? Eventually a MUD operator would add a new most-powerful item. It would be EXCITING! There might an event! But, later.. that most-powerful item, it’s kinda boring, so you’ve gotta one-up it.

Oh snap, now you’re stuck in a cycle. Now you do it over and over, because there IS no end. Once you set an endpoint, and then decide that you need to move that endpoint, you will come to the same conclusion later.

This has been A Thing in online gaming for, what, 30 years now? Don’t tell me I don’t know what’s coming.

Phy.2913:

Did Anet ever say exotics would be the strongest gear? I know that’s what everyone expected, but who knows if this wasn’t planned out long before the game release?

Had the Ascended tier been released within the launch, this outrage would be avoided.
I simply think Anet underestimated the relative ease of obtaining exotics and struggled to find a way to challenge players for many different situations with the standard set of stats.

The Ascended gear, in my eyes, is an attempt to tackle this issue while at the same time avoiding the need to create additional tiers. After all, infusions can account for many different aspects of the different dungeons in upcoming content.

Yes, Anet screwed up most likely, but not in the direction many people suggest they did.

warmonkey.8013:

Oh snap, now you’re stuck in a cycle. Now you do it over and over, because there IS no end. Once you set an endpoint, and then decide that you need to move that endpoint, you will come to the same conclusion later.

This has been A Thing in online gaming for, what, 30 years now? Don’t tell me I don’t know what’s coming.

Which is why Anet added the infusions, which will counter the need of additional stats to challenge players.

The treadmill is not evident at this point. All you are doing is allow your bias and experience with other games to become a reality for this game.

at this point, we can not say the treadmill has started. That is a debate that can only be held in the future. For all we know, this was just the final step of the staircase to bring the game to its final tier.

I really hadn’t meant this to be a debate over ascended gear. I’m honestly still not sure how I feel about the changes coming in the next patch myself.

I was only trying to suggest that given how divided the playerbase is over this that it might help if there was a way for people to “opt-in” or not. And since opting in really has to happen on a server level, it seemed like splitting the servers into two groups might be a way to do that.

Please don’t try to hash out the equipment issue here.

Thosekittenmain.6328:

Phy.2913:

Did Anet ever say exotics would be the strongest gear? I know that’s what everyone expected, but who knows if this wasn’t planned out long before the game release?

Had the Ascended tier been released within the launch, this outrage would be avoided.
I simply think Anet underestimated the relative ease of obtaining exotics and struggled to find a way to challenge players for many different situations with the standard set of stats.

The Ascended gear, in my eyes, is an attempt to tackle this issue while at the same time avoiding the need to create additional tiers. After all, infusions can account for many different aspects of the different dungeons in upcoming content.

Yes, Anet screwed up most likely, but not in the direction many people suggest they did.

They said they wanted something between exotic and legendary. If legendary was planned to only ever be as powerful as exotics then the only gap between the 2 is time/effort, which isn’t that big an issue in this type of game (ie. no sub). But if they always had the plan to have legendary be slightly stronger then a lot of this arguing is moot.

Phy.2913:

Thosekittenmain.6328:

Phy.2913:

Did Anet ever say exotics would be the strongest gear? I know that’s what everyone expected, but who knows if this wasn’t planned out long before the game release?

Had the Ascended tier been released within the launch, this outrage would be avoided.
I simply think Anet underestimated the relative ease of obtaining exotics and struggled to find a way to challenge players for many different situations with the standard set of stats.

The Ascended gear, in my eyes, is an attempt to tackle this issue while at the same time avoiding the need to create additional tiers. After all, infusions can account for many different aspects of the different dungeons in upcoming content.

Yes, Anet screwed up most likely, but not in the direction many people suggest they did.

They said they wanted something between exotic and legendary. If legendary was planned to only ever be as powerful as exotics then the only gap between the 2 is time/effort, which isn’t that big an issue in this type of game (ie. no sub). But if they always had the plan to have legendary be slightly stronger then a lot of this arguing is moot.

Given legendary is only being boosted to the same level as ascended its fairly safe to say that it was never intended to be any more powerful than the most powerful tier.

Ill just point something out here. For one stat gear they give you Master Crafted. Then you get to two Stat they added Rare. You then hit 3 stat and they added Exotic to the others. Following that it makes sense that Exotic should have been the highest stated gear in the game.

Now ill touch on infusion. Infusion was a way to mitigate Agony in the first game. It did not increase your stats or anything. It just counted this one skill. Following that lore this infusion should have been the same thing. It simply should have added a little thing to your armor that made it so when dealing with agony it was the counter. Want to rename gear with this to ascended thats fine. It is a special case of gear but there was no reason to up the stats when in lore that was not what this did. Now you have made it so that not only did you upset a good chunk of your players but you also now have to redo all your legendaries from the ground up, yes i know some of you are thinking this is a good thing, to bring them on par with ascended weapons when they are finally added.

They promised no gear treadmill, I don’t recall a promise to never increase stats, they also said they might raise level cap (which worries me far more).

Thosekittenmain.6328:

Greyfeld.7104:

Actually, at no point in that block of text does it say that. Just because you interpreted their PR garbage in that way doesn’t mean that’s what they actually said.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Things like this make it much more likely that Ascended is indeed the final tier, using the infusions to account for the variability in new challenges in end-game content.

You and I read that statement in two very different ways.

Putting that aside, my point was simply refuting that Anet ever actually made the statement that there would be no gear beyond this first Ascended set. The poster in question said that they actually made that statement, when the quote he posted quite obviously never did so.

Phy.2913:

They promised no gear treadmill, I don’t recall a promise to never increase stats, they also said they might raise level cap (which worries me far more).

Raising stats is a treadmill. It makes you go after those stats. And once you do it once the players that want even more stats can always point at the time you did it and use that as ground for another boost. ANet already caved once. From here on it will just become easier and easier for them to keep doing it.

As for the level cap thats another thing that was said would never be touched as the whole reason you currently are still leveling at 80, yes you still level as you keep gaining Skill points, is because you still have use for them. Only thing that more actual level’s would add is that you can add more traits and to be honest adding more traits for say guardian, i actually do main a guardian, would be as bad or worse than giving me higher base hp. Although this is off topic and ill not touch on why this would be so bad.

They really should postpone this patch until they find another way to reward the players doing the dungeon.

I’d rather have nothing to do in November then seeing power creep introduced in Guild Wars 2.

If they keep raising stats then people will have a valid argument, but since I don’t work at Anet and can’t see the future all we can do is speculate.

They also said they were open to raising level cap in an expansion if they felt they needed to, but that’s a different discussion.

I would much prefer the patch be delayed until these issues are resolved than to see the patch put into the game as-is, followed by massive player dissatisfaction and the possibility of having to take away the upgraded gear from players who already have it, if ArenaNet does ultimately decide to walk back on the (poor) decision to add an upgraded equipment tier.

Crater.1625:

I would much prefer the patch be delayed until these issues are resolved than to see the patch put into the game as-is, followed by massive player dissatisfaction and the possibility of having to take away the upgraded gear from players who already have it, if ArenaNet does ultimately decide to walk back on the (poor) decision to add an upgraded equipment tier.

That’s even less likely then them going full treadmill.

Make no mistake, it IS a treadmill. And if you like to play in the most challenging and rewarding content, you HAVE to run on it. You have to deal with with the tiering groups, the fresh gear grind every time they release new high end content, and the just plain boring mechanic they’re using to make it.

I’m not sure if any of the complainers in this thread have taken the time to read Linseys post on the ascended gear, but she does state that the infusions merely help defend against the Agony stat, it states no where that without the Infusion slot you won’t be able to complete the dungeons (if this is wrong, then my bad – it’s early here, still half asleep X).

But seriously, can’t we all just wait and see how the whole ascended gear pans out? Is it really nessecary to doomsay the games end before we have actual facts to base our concerns off?

The suggestion created by the topic starter feels silly.
It’s the first mmo I heard players doesn’t want new content. (facepalm)

If people wants a dead-end game with a great wall and no progression, they should stop playing mmo. Please move back to console games. Thank you.

There’s no evident that it’s going to be gear treadmill. It’s few people paranoid assumptions that are spreading like a plague which influence each other for nothing. Lost Shore only include content that helps in individual progression. Progression is vital. Let it be gear progression or other progression. If they release a set stronger gear every few months that makes your previous gear useless, then it’s a gear treadmill. Our exotics will still have the same value even with ascended.

You can’t judge that it will be a staircase when they just put a plank there. The ascended gears are just another content that helps in the overal progression mechanic. Imo, going to be a good one. Give it a try first, feedback later.

Constructive comment to an “intelligent” idea…

Most silly “intelligent” idea EVER! You win…

IT’S NEW CONTENT mate!!!! Just play it, enjoy it and keep your other uninspired (sheep) ideas to yourself! Don’t just repeat what everyone is saying! Yes, we got it… We don’t agree with different tiers of items! That is one thing… Not wanting new content, that is just silly! Play it and maybe you will be surprised… and even change your mind!

Although I am sure that many that will play and love it, will still (out of pride) keep bashing GW2. Such is life and all is well…

Have fun

1. Waiting to see how it pans out is like sitting on the sidelines silent just watching your favorite team lose when you had the chance to scream your lungs out to make their opponents fumble the snap.
2. We do know that it’s going to be a gear treadmill all it takes is a little reading for comprehension. See my first post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Some-things-you-may-have-missed/first#post715275 if you’d rather it be done for you.

Pythax.6802:

I’m not sure if any of the complainers in this thread have taken the time to read Linseys post on the ascended gear, but she does state that the infusions merely help defend against the Agony stat, it states no where that without the Infusion slot you won’t be able to complete the dungeons (if this is wrong, then my bad – it’s early here, still half asleep X).

But seriously, can’t we all just wait and see how the whole ascended gear pans out? Is it really nessecary to doomsay the games end before we have actual facts to base our concerns off?

Doesn’t her post make it clear that the new dungeon becomes more difficult the further in you go and Agony builds like a timer so without the infusion to combat it… you’re obviously not going to be able to complete it.

The one solid fact that we don’t need to wait for is that ANet have sadly taken a direction away from their philosphy. We were told GW2 wouldn’t include exclusion from some content based on gear and there would be multiple paths to achieve endgame goals. 3 months just 3 months in this may appear a relatively small deal but the direction change is a huge deal.

They’re also being very vague and not addressing the concerns players have just issuing PR statements all fluff and no substance. I waited years for this game – years of being told no gear grind, no gear grind, no exclusion from content based on how you like to play and whoosh 3 months in what am I looking forward to this weekend the introduction of gear grind and exclusion from content X if I don’t get Y. And the birth of another MMO clone which is just Zzzzz.

Naoko.7096:

The suggestion created by the topic starter feels silly.
It’s the first mmo I heard players doesn’t want new content. (facepalm)

Well, it does remind me of the old Star Wars NGE debacle. I’m sure a lot of the 200000 subscribers they had at the time didn’t want that update at all.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/06/16/dredging-up-the-past-the-star-wars-galaxies-nge-re-examined/

Vasham.2408:

They’ve confirmed that there will be no new “tiers” of ascended gear already. Maybe you should relax.

As they stated at the beginning of the game saying exotics will be the max gear?