Guild Wars 2

So Guardians, the least mobile class in the game, are getting their mobility further nerfed in the way of requiring Flashing Blade and Judge’s Intervention to require targets to be in range, otherwise the teleport will not happen besides the upcoming tp skill nerfs.
Are we going to get any compensation for this or are we just supposed to deal with it?

Necro is definitely far less mobile than a guardian. And you’ll still be able to use your teleports; the targets will simply have to be in range.

And one should never expect compensation. You’re not owed anything just because they’re changing something.

what do you mean by require targets, they always required a target

@RoseofGilead
Then play with fleshworm and spectral walk. You can even “teleport-stomp” people with it, Swiftness, you can jump off every wall without to die, more teleports. Oh DS has a teleport skill too, right? yea, least mobile class…

@OP
Maybe JI will be like Blink from Mesmer, ground target like?

@Choucs
the target must be in range now.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Necro is definitely far less mobile than a guardian. And you’ll still be able to use your teleports; the targets will simply have to be in range.

And one should never expect compensation. You’re not owed anything just because they’re changing something.

Necromancer still have Locust Swarm, Necrotic Traversal (granted, it’s situational) and Signet of the Locust. Granted, I do not play Necro, but they have these options. Let’s look at the Guardian. They Have Symbol of Swiftness, Save Your Selves and Retreat. Most META builds run GS and something that is not staff, so that’s out. Also since most META builds are Meditation, that means they rely solely on JI for mobility. We have nothing now. Sure we will be able to use it when we are within 1200 range, which 7/8 classes can leave really easily. So we will be left in the dust, and everyone will be able to just outrun us.

Time to stop playing until Revenant comes.

Arrk.4102:

Necromancer still have Locust Swarm, Necrotic Traversal (granted, it’s situational) and Signet of the Locust. Granted, I do not play Necro, but they have these options. Let’s look at the Guardian. They Have Symbol of Swiftness, Save Your Selves and Retreat. Most META builds run GS and something that is not staff, so that’s out. Also since most META builds are Meditation, that means they rely solely on JI for mobility. We have nothing now. Sure we will be able to use it when we are within 1200 range, which 7/8 classes can leave really easily. So we will be left in the dust, and everyone will be able to just outrun us.

Locust Swarm puts us into combat if we get too close to mobs. Necrotic traversal, as you pointed out, is highly situational; it takes too long to cast, and it’s just not useful 99% of the time. But yes, we do have the Signet of the Locust (which is permanent, as long as you don’t activate the signet) and Spectral Walk (60 sec. cooldown).

Guardians have what you pointed out, as well as a leap with GS. The cooldown for Retreat is shorter than an untraited Spectral Walk cooldown. JI and your sword teleport will STILL be useable; you’ll just have to be within range of your target.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Arrk.4102:

Necromancer still have Locust Swarm, Necrotic Traversal (granted, it’s situational) and Signet of the Locust. Granted, I do not play Necro, but they have these options. Let’s look at the Guardian. They Have Symbol of Swiftness, Save Your Selves and Retreat. Most META builds run GS and something that is not staff, so that’s out. Also since most META builds are Meditation, that means they rely solely on JI for mobility. We have nothing now. Sure we will be able to use it when we are within 1200 range, which 7/8 classes can leave really easily. So we will be left in the dust, and everyone will be able to just outrun us.

Guardians have what you pointed out, as well as a leap with GS. The cooldown for Retreat is shorter than an untraited Spectral Walk cooldown. JI and your sword teleport will STILL be useable; you’ll just have to be within range of your target.

Leap is 600 range, if that 600 doesn’t put us within 1200 we are out of the race. Remember, while we cast Leap they will not be standing still, they will be moving. One dodge puts them 300 away, they WILL get out of range. Retreat is not in the Meditation build which is the build that uses JI the most. JI, Leap and FB are the only mobility skills we have. Had.

They need to do Leap for 1000 range or JI ground target based skill. Otherwise Guard is the slowest Class in PvE, can´t disengange in WvW Small Scale or even Large Scale, the only available DPS Build for Guard would be broken and absolutely UP. (Not talking about tPvP).
Hope ANet will do something against it. Or better: not change it! (never change a running system)

Edit: @ANet or Admin, don´t delete other Threads about this.

You seriously need to try Necro if you think they are mobile.

Death Shroud shadow step projectile is so slow it’s basically in slow motion.
Locust swarm requires miles of open field to be useful because of the built in attack, you nick something and bam you’re in combat.
Signet of the locust is OK as long as you don’t proc it and make sure to swap it out before combat.

This change is putting it on the same footing as Infiltrator’s strike (thief sword 2 skill which shadow steps) and Steal. Without a target, or if the target is out of range, the shadow step doesn’t work.

They’re nerfing it because of infiltrator’s signet. Which is the most abused movement teleport in the game.

Yeah, guardians are the slowest moving class in game, getting worse. With this plus the stability changes hit guardians hard I don’t see people taking guardians as competitively anymore.

its not a nerf its a balancing fix skills will work fine as long they used in intended ranges

currently teleports/shadowsteps are exploited left and right you can even use them from behind walls wich was a nifty exploit i did on my thief shadowstep with infiltrator strike then shadowstep back inside the building leaving enemy clueless and unable to harm me lol

I feel a lot more mobile on a Guardian than on a mesmer and it’s comparable to necro. Guardian has leap skills on two of the 2H weapons and a swiftness boon on the other one. G’s have swiftness-generating shouts. Mesmers have one teleport (a good one, to be sure), one weapon skill that grants limited swiftness once, and a couple of skills that give swiftness a fraction of the time. In addition, nearly all illusion-skills on mesmer require a target, including the one mesmer leap…and that requires two casts (both with channeling and cooldown times).

Guardian wasn’t designed to be as mobile as a thief (or some variations of elementalist), but it’s in a much better state than mesmers.

That said, the issue isn’t whether guards are getting nerfed or not, it’s whether the game is well-balanced or not. In the context of all other changes, I don’t think the ones mentioned by the OP affect the overall balance in the game.

With the amount of easy apply slows / snares. Most classes will be able to simply outrun guardian now. Say so long to solo roaming on guardian. Disengage = gone catching a fleeing foe = gone.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I feel a lot more mobile on a Guardian than on a mesmer and it’s comparable to necro. Guardian has leap skills on two of the 2H weapons and a swiftness boon on the other one. G’s have swiftness-generating shouts. Mesmers have one teleport (a good one, to be sure), one weapon skill that grants limited swiftness once, and a couple of skills that give swiftness a fraction of the time. In addition, nearly all illusion-skills on mesmer require a target, including the one mesmer leap…and that requires two casts (both with channeling and cooldown times).

Guardian wasn’t designed to be as mobile as a thief (or some variations of elementalist), but it’s in a much better state than mesmers.

That said, the issue isn’t whether guards are getting nerfed or not, it’s whether the game is well-balanced or not. In the context of all other changes, I don’t think the ones mentioned by the OP affect the overall balance in the game.

Sure, Guardians can become invincible, they can heal to full in 1 skill, they can summon 4 minions one which has a knockdown, they can get full boons and they can teleport twice AND they can convert all the conditions into boons.
See where Im going with this?
The shouts are not used in the only viable Guardian build. The staff isn’t either. We have Leap and JI. That is all. Having one gap closer on the slowest melee class in the game is nonsense.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Necro is definitely far less mobile than a guardian. And you’ll still be able to use your teleports; the targets will simply have to be in range.

And one should never expect compensation. You’re not owed anything just because they’re changing something.

Yes but as a ranged class does necro need to be mobile? With the huge amount of Soft Condition CC and Fear? Put it in a way like this too. Put Flesh Wurm port 600 range use. You can’t use the port unless you’re in range of the wurm. How bad does that mess up the use of the skill?

Personal Opinion..BRING IT ON! Always love a good challenge and I am sure we Guardians will manage somehow

how exactly is anyone getting mobility nerf
all i hear is kids seeing their shadowstep/teleports exploit fixed so they crying cuz they require skillful play now

everyone will still have the same mobility they had just wont be able to shadowstep from behind walls or teleport to unreachable places mid combat

Rezzet.3614:

how exactly is anyone getting mobility nerf
all i hear is kids seeing their shadowstep/teleports exploit fixed so they crying cuz they require skillful play now

everyone will still have the same mobility they had just wont be able to shadowstep from behind walls or teleport to unreachable places mid combat

Warrior – GS 1200
Necro – Spectral Walk/Fleshworm 1200
Ranger – GS 1100/1200 (not sure About the exact Range)
Engi – rocket boots with swiftness 1100/1200?
Thief – Shadow Step 1200
Ele – RtL 1200
Mesmer – Blink 900 (traited 1200)
→ Guardian – GS 600 <-

You see now why people complain? Is this ‘fair’?

urgh, did I miss here something, or what are you guys talkign about??

Has Anet posted somewhere a new official BalancingPatch Preview in which stands, that they will make some changes to those mentioned Guardian Skills ??

if yes, then please post here the link to that thread, so that those of us, which haven’t seen it yet can get that official info too

thanks in advance

Orpheal.8263:

urgh, did I miss here something, or what are you guys talkign about??

Has Anet posted somewhere a new official BalancingPatch Preview in which stands, that they will make some changes to those mentioned Guardian Skills ??

if yes, then please post here the link to that thread, so that those of us, which haven’t seen it yet can get that official info too

thanks in advance

So much this ! Good call

I posted it above you and another thread. Guardian will be unavailable for WvW Smallscale/MidScale, even tPvP will be affected. In PvE you will be slow as ….
You say, fine, let’s do this. But 99% of other Guardians say: no. Pls not.
If your playstyle isn’t affected, then don’t talk YEA GIVE IT TO ME PLSPLS because it Won’t help anyone here.
Because of you signature, i think you are more the PvE Guy. Fine, but in WvW and PvP, Guards only mobility AND Burst build would be broken.

@Orpheal
Pls read the Threads, the source is official.

@ MandJ

You know as good as mee, that the Search Function in this forum is junk, so it would be quite helpful to just provide the link of the thread as you know exactly where to look for it…
Others, that haven’t seen the thread you are talking about, don’t know, where to look for it.

However, i searched a bit around and found so far just only something with chinese translated stuff in, where peopel partwise used even Google Translator.
What I meant with my question is, if there is already some kind of official preview thread about it, that doesn’t come from some chinese patch notes, but has been posted by any NA Anet Dev with a red post or so here… or if everyone is now just taking everythign as officially set in stone from some chinese translations nowdays??

Because you know, from chinese to international client version release, can still be made some changes … or in those translations can be found misinterpretations, as long its not somethign oficially posted by a red post from a NA Dev that makes it set in stone for us in the US/EU

I agree that this change might have effects in WvW solo roaming that are not desirable but they will not change it, mostly due to the fact you are posting in the PvE section of the forum where most people are allergic to even using simple meta builds in dungeons/fractals, let alone use viable builds in PvP or WvW. You won’t find the support you are looking for in this section of the forum.

If this change affects my guardian to much in WvW, I will simply take a break till a rebalance is done, personally I will not reroll after 5000+ hours on my beloved guardian just to stay competitive in small scale WvW.

MandJ.8965:

Rezzet.3614:

how exactly is anyone getting mobility nerf
all i hear is kids seeing their shadowstep/teleports exploit fixed so they crying cuz they require skillful play now

everyone will still have the same mobility they had just wont be able to shadowstep from behind walls or teleport to unreachable places mid combat

Warrior – GS 1200
Necro – Spectral Walk/Fleshworm 1200
Ranger – GS 1100/1200 (not sure About the exact Range)
Engi – rocket boots with swiftness 1100/1200?
Thief – Shadow Step 1200
Ele – RtL 1200
Mesmer – Blink 900 (traited 1200)
-> Guardian – GS 600 <-

You see now why people complain? Is this ‘fair’?

Actually:

warrior: gs 1200 + 450 + sword 600
necro: same
ranger: gs 1100
engi: same
thief: same
ele: RTL 1200 + lightning flash 900
mesmer: same
guardian: gs 600 + sword 600 (without target in range its useless) + JI 1200 (without target in range its useless)

so Guardian have only 1 escape mechanism….GL Anet I love your balancing.

So how exactly is guardian the worst mobile class when they have perma swiftness?

Arrk.4102:

So Guardians, the least mobile class in the game, are getting their mobility further nerfed in the way of requiring Flashing Blade and Judge’s Intervention to require targets to be in range, otherwise the teleport will not happen besides the upcoming tp skill nerfs.
Are we going to get any compensation for this or are we just supposed to deal with it?

Wait, WHAT? Where did you get this info? Is this seriously gonna happen?

WHY? Why are GUARDIANS getting a nerf like this while thieves can do this?

Are thieves gonna get nerfed too then?

They have to berf other professions so revenant can be considered op and this is the way they can force ppl to buy expac

Keep calm guys. As i posted in the other thread, all our assumptions are based on a text slush generated by google translate, which always has proven to do pretty bad translations. So all in all it might just be a bug fix where the skill simply won´t activate if the teleportation / shadowstep won´t work anyways. That means the pathing unable to find a path to the target, or as it is now, to find a path to a location which is as near as possible at the target. Whether or not this means that you literally have to be within the skill’s indicated range remains unclear. It seems unlikely though because classes with an abundance of directional movement skills, be it targetted ( Warrior Hammer F1, Engi Jumpshot) or untargetted (Warrior sword Savage Leap, GS Whirl and Rush, that Ranger’s Bee-thingy on sword, Engi Rocket Boots etc.) would be insta-buffed to the most mobile classes.

MandJ.8965:

I posted it above you and another thread. Guardian will be unavailable for WvW Smallscale/MidScale, even tPvP will be affected. In PvE you will be slow as ….
You say, fine, let’s do this. But 99% of other Guardians say: no. Pls not.
If your playstyle isn’t affected, then don’t talk YEA GIVE IT TO ME PLSPLS because it Won’t help anyone here.
Because of you signature, i think you are more the PvE Guy. Fine, but in WvW and PvP, Guards only mobility AND Burst build would be broken.

@Orpheal
Pls read the Threads, the source is official.

I talk about what and when in a matter I see fit for my personal opinion..Your reply to Orpheal fits you actually perfectly..READ what is written)
NO ONE needs your permission to do so. You make assumptions, you draw conclusions based on half read posts, so again..you’re not constructive.
Please do not use excuses or try to explain in anyway….
And as for the signature..I had a great laugh reading that particular post and choose to use this as signature..not PVX related

Next time, try to ask questions instead of replying kitten comments on players posts; can be quite clarifying

As example on your witty remark (which could have been “why do you say this? Do you know 99% of the guardians do not like this upcoming change?” )

I really couldnt care less about the nerf…lots of things are nerfed during last years and still players always seem to overcome the assumed challenges in creative and different ways (other gear, runes, sigils, trinkets, group formations, whatevers). So again..bring it on and challenge us to use new ways to rule. In about half a year this change will be implemented, dealt with and something else will be nerfed, triggering the same discussion for other classes..

Hope it helps

Fenda.1398:

Keep calm guys. As i posted in the other thread, all our assumptions are based on a text slush generated by google translate, which always has proven to do pretty bad translations. So all in all it might just be a bug fix where the skill simply won´t activate if the teleportation / shadowstep won´t work anyways. That means the pathing unable to find a path to the target, or as it is now, to find a path to a location which is as near as possible at the target. Whether or not this means that you literally have to be within the skill’s indicated range remains unclear. It seems unlikely though because classes with an abundance of directional movement skills, be it targetted ( Warrior Hammer F1, Engi Jumpshot) or untargetted (Warrior sword Savage Leap, GS Whirl and Rush, that Ranger’s Bee-thingy on sword, Engi Rocket Boots etc.) would be insta-buffed to the most mobile classes.

But we all know ANet right? We all know that ANet has the most terrible Balance team ever.
And look how people cry about it, but no one of ANet respond here.
If this change is going live, they wont turn it back. But now we have the chance that they wont add it.

Btw, that wasn’t a google translater

MandJ.8965:

Necro – Spectral Walk/Fleshworm 1200

Spectral Walk is technically unlimited range, but the Necro has 8/12 seconds to cover the distance they will teleport.

Think of that skill more like a shorter duration, personal only, single-use Portal on its teleport.

MandJ.8965:

Fenda.1398:

Keep calm guys. As i posted in the other thread, all our assumptions are based on a text slush generated by google translate, which always has proven to do pretty bad translations. So all in all it might just be a bug fix where the skill simply won´t activate if the teleportation / shadowstep won´t work anyways. That means the pathing unable to find a path to the target, or as it is now, to find a path to a location which is as near as possible at the target. Whether or not this means that you literally have to be within the skill’s indicated range remains unclear. It seems unlikely though because classes with an abundance of directional movement skills, be it targetted ( Warrior Hammer F1, Engi Jumpshot) or untargetted (Warrior sword Savage Leap, GS Whirl and Rush, that Ranger’s Bee-thingy on sword, Engi Rocket Boots etc.) would be insta-buffed to the most mobile classes.

But we all know ANet right? We all know that ANet has the most terrible Balance team ever.
And look how people cry about it, but no one of ANet respond here.
If this change is going live, they wont turn it back. But now we have the chance that they wont add it.

Btw, that wasn’t a google translater

Could it be that Anet just “feeds” some of this in the world to see how the responses are gonna be? :P
/end conspiracy theory

Ayrilana.1396:

So how exactly is guardian the worst mobile class when they have perma swiftness?

Swiftness =! Escape Mechanism

Ragnarox.9601:

Ayrilana.1396:

So how exactly is guardian the worst mobile class when they have perma swiftness?

Swiftness =! Escape Mechanism

Runes and sigils of speed sky rocketing on TP? XD

MandJ.8965:

But we all know ANet right? We all know that ANet has the most terrible Balance team ever.
And look how people cry about it, but no one of ANet respond here.
If this change is going live, they wont turn it back. But now we have the chance that they wont add it.

Btw, that wasn’t a google translater

Yea, Anet and balance. Its like telling hungry wolf not to eat a chicken because you are convinced that wolves are vegetarians.

You’d think with skills named, “Save Yourselves”, and “Retreat” that Guardians would be the kings/queens of running away.

Ragnarox.9601:

MandJ.8965:

But we all know ANet right? We all know that ANet has the most terrible Balance team ever.
And look how people cry about it, but no one of ANet respond here.
If this change is going live, they wont turn it back. But now we have the chance that they wont add it.

Btw, that wasn’t a google translater

Yea, Anet and balance. Its like telling hungry wolf not to eat a chicken because you are convinced that wolves are vegetarians.

Haha yea
Everybody was like: omg nerf celestial plz111!!!!
Anet: Hey, we wanna change the teleport system and destroy the only available Guardian DPS Build, so, all other classes can walk away and the guardiab can /wave them.

Ragnarox.9601:

Ayrilana.1396:

So how exactly is guardian the worst mobile class when they have perma swiftness?

Swiftness =! Escape Mechanism

Except people are not just talking about escape mechanisms and judge’s intervention hardly had a significant impact on escaping as it relied on you having a target to use it.

Oofta.8036:

You’d think with skills named, “Save Yourselves”, and “Retreat” that Guardians would be the kings/queens of running away.

“Save Yourselves” actually implies the Guardian isn’t going anywhere.

Oofta.8036:

You’d think with skills named, “Save Yourselves”, and “Retreat” that Guardians would be the kings/queens of running away.

Yes we do run, but in circles hahahahaha

Never understood why when I click retreat he attacks the closest enemy next to him. I’d like to see that fixed.

rgraze.5169:

Never understood why when I click retreat he attacks the closest enemy next to him. I’d like to see that fixed.

Its because when you press it you give everyone in your party a chance to escape but you need to stay and die for them we are like Jesus type class.

Without a link to an official source, you have to treat this as a troll / wishful thinking post.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ragnarox.9601:

Ayrilana.1396:

So how exactly is guardian the worst mobile class when they have perma swiftness?

Swiftness =! Escape Mechanism

Except people are not just talking about escape mechanisms and judge’s intervention hardly had a significant impact on escaping as it relied on you having a target to use it.

If you don’t understand how people use JI to escape, you’re either a PvE player or bad. One of those two.

Lucentfir.7430:

Yes but as a ranged class does necro need to be mobile? With the huge amount of Soft Condition CC and Fear? Put it in a way like this too. Put Flesh Wurm port 600 range use. You can’t use the port unless you’re in range of the wurm. How bad does that mess up the use of the skill?

A necro isn’t strictly a ranged class. I only use ranged weapons (namely staff) when I’m going to be hitting targets on the walls at keeps and towers. When I’m actually fighting, I’m in melee. Plus, even if you ARE a ranged class, you still need to be able to get away if the enemy breaks through your zerg.

As for your notion of how necros would react if Flesh Wurm’s range was lessened to 600: nothing would change because we already don’t use it (except to cheese things like the laser grid in CoE) due to the fact that it’s already a useless skill.

Drennon.7190:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ragnarox.9601:

Ayrilana.1396:

So how exactly is guardian the worst mobile class when they have perma swiftness?

Swiftness =! Escape Mechanism

Except people are not just talking about escape mechanisms and judge’s intervention hardly had a significant impact on escaping as it relied on you having a target to use it.

If you don’t understand how people use JI to escape, you’re either a PvE player or bad. One of those two.

To (hopefully) helpfully elaborate on Drennon’s comment, I think guard’s use JI to escape by targeting an enemy out of range and using the skill. They are then teleported the skill’s maximum distance in that direction.

I really hope they don’t make it where I can’t use the teleport from sword 2 out of range. I hope it’s just when it would take me to a different elevation level. I can live with that.. maybe

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Drennon.7190:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ragnarox.9601:

Ayrilana.1396:

So how exactly is guardian the worst mobile class when they have perma swiftness?

Swiftness =! Escape Mechanism

Except people are not just talking about escape mechanisms and judge’s intervention hardly had a significant impact on escaping as it relied on you having a target to use it.

If you don’t understand how people use JI to escape, you’re either a PvE player or bad. One of those two.

To (hopefully) helpfully elaborate on Drennon’s comment, I think guard’s use JI to escape by targeting an enemy out of range and using the skill. They are then teleported the skill’s maximum distance in that direction.

And what they missed in my post was the last bit where it relied on you having an enemy target selected in order to use it. If you didn’t, then the skill wasn’t of much use for escaping.

In PvE its not such a big deal, in PvP just create a frikin support or bunkier build and kitten enemies off, you dont have to jump like a monkey on steroids from enemy to enemy all the time.