Guild Wars 2

Such an ill-placed comment was stated elsewhere on the forums. That was my fear about ANet appeasing the anti-MF gear crowd-that what they were really opposing wasn’t just MF users being “selfish”, but that only “meta” gear/builds were used, so their speedruns wouldn’t be hampered (did they even stop to think that not everyone even participates on speedruns, and that such a thing doesn’t mean they are “baddies”?)

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

This is not a troll post, but I am actually disgusted at this, because the “logic” of these individuals is that anything that isn’t what they like is not allowed on their runs. So the solution HAS always been: party with the people that think like you do. MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided. And it was viable just because of that reason. Players who bought the gear weren’t “leeches” out to cheat your group. They just got what the game made available to them. If you don’t like certain gear on people, don’t play with them, and find your own groups, period-stop claiming that the use of certain gear is players being selfish, because you have NO RIGHT to judge someone’s character becaUse they won’t use what you would like them to use.

EVERY STAT COMBO IS VIABLE, AND MADE OFFICIALLY AVAILABLE BY ANET. RESPECT EVERYONE’S RIGHT TO USE WHAT’S MADE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST WHAT’S POPULAR AND SUPPOSED TO BE “EFFECTIVE” AND THE “RIGHT WAY” TO PLAY GW2.

Berserker’s gear is a fine way to play-and so is everything else in the game.

Star Ace.5207:

Such an ill-placed comment was stated elsewhere on the forums. That was my fear about ANet appeasing the anti-MF gear crowd-that what they were really opposing wasn’t just MF users being “selfish”, but that only “meta” gear/builds were used, so their speedruns wouldn’t be hampered (did they even stop to think that not everyone even participates on speedruns, and that such a thing doesn’t mean they are “baddies”?)

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

This is not a troll post, but I am actually disgusted at this, because the “logic” of these individuals is that anything that isn’t what they like is not allowed on their runs. So the solution HAS always been: party with the people that think like you do. MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided. And it was viable just because of that reason. Players who bought the gear weren’t “leeches” out to cheat your group. They just got what the game made available to them. If you don’t like certain gear on people, don’t play with them, and find your own groups, period-stop claiming that the use of certain gear is players being selfish, because you have NO RIGHT to judge someone’s character becaUse they won’t use what you would like them to use.

EVERY STAT COMBO IS VIABLE, AND MADE OFFICIALLY AVAILABLE BY ANET. RESPECT EVERYONE’S RIGHT TO USE WHAT’S MADE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST WHAT’S POPULAR AND SUPPOSED TO BE “EFFECTIVE” AND THE “RIGHT WAY” TO PLAY GW2.

Berserker’s gear is a fine way to play-and so is everything else in the game.

IF you believe what you just said, then you wouldn’t be ‘fine’ with MF gear removal as it was a viable build option also.

That is what happens when you get involved with min/max orientated people. They stop seeing a game and look just at their goals.

First of all, yes other stats are viable. There are plenty of group comps that clear dungeons just fine besides full zerk.

However, people don’t have to run with you if they don’t want to. If they want full zerk, that’s their business. Fairness and equality doesn’t extend to forcing people to put up with you. You are entitled to use the build you want, but you aren’t entitled to a spot in my dungeon group.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Star Ace.5207:

Such an ill-placed comment was stated elsewhere on the forums. That was my fear about ANet appeasing the anti-MF gear crowd-that what they were really opposing wasn’t just MF users being “selfish”, but that only “meta” gear/builds were used, so their speedruns wouldn’t be hampered (did they even stop to think that not everyone even participates on speedruns, and that such a thing doesn’t mean they are “baddies”?)

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

This is not a troll post, but I am actually disgusted at this, because the “logic” of these individuals is that anything that isn’t what they like is not allowed on their runs. So the solution HAS always been: party with the people that think like you do. MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided. And it was viable just because of that reason. Players who bought the gear weren’t “leeches” out to cheat your group. They just got what the game made available to them. If you don’t like certain gear on people, don’t play with them, and find your own groups, period-stop claiming that the use of certain gear is players being selfish, because you have NO RIGHT to judge someone’s character becaUse they won’t use what you would like them to use.

EVERY STAT COMBO IS VIABLE, AND MADE OFFICIALLY AVAILABLE BY ANET. RESPECT EVERYONE’S RIGHT TO USE WHAT’S MADE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST WHAT’S POPULAR AND SUPPOSED TO BE “EFFECTIVE” AND THE “RIGHT WAY” TO PLAY GW2.

Berserker’s gear is a fine way to play-and so is everything else in the game.

IF you believe what you just said, then you wouldn’t be ‘fine’ with MF gear removal as it was a viable build option also.

I believe it was viable, the problem is that I didn’t like how it played vs my other options. I only used it to farm zombies at Orr, to be honest. It being removed doesn’t affect me, but I am sure it will affect those who used it way more often than I did (imagine those players who used Ascended MF gear-hopefully they all receive a proper replacement.) Some players did great with it despite the stat losses.

ANet did it, IMHO, to appease the people at the forums. I never saw it as selfish, because numbers have no moral capacity-people can be altruistic or selfish regardless gear. I seriously doubt that people on MF gear were “leeches”, and honestly find it insulting that people’s character is judged based on the gear they choose to use-especially since it was ANet that put it in the game to begin with. Many wonderful people use both Berserker’s or MF gear, as well as many jerks. It’s fine by me that they remove it, but it doesn’t justify the “selfishness” argument.

except your wrong… in multiple posts on the forums and in podcasts as early as late 2012 anet said they know MF is selfish and were thinking about a solution besides chunking MF out a window, as for any other gear except zerker, why would anyone want to spend 45 mins in a dungeon vs the 10 mins it should actually take, speed run or not, ex: your driving your car to work everyday, should take 15 mins to get to work, why would you intentionally waste time and gas by taking a much longer route
edit: not sure of the date of the original podcast about MF gear, i know it was a few months before ac nerf though
edit2: lol @ above post, if anyone bought mf ascended items they deserve to lose them

Clumsy.6257:

except your wrong… in multiple posts on the forums and in podcasts as early as late 2012 anet said they know MF is selfish and were thinking about a solution besides chunking MF out a window, as for any other gear except zerker, why would anyone want to spend 45 mins in a dungeon vs the 10 mins it should actually take, speed run or not, ex: your driving your car to work everyday, should take 15 mins to get to work, why would you intentionally waste time and gas by taking a much longer route

Because not everybody is you, that’s why. And you shouldn’t expect others to think and play like you do.

And that’s why many, many stat combos are available in the game. Otherwise laurel merchants would only sell “Zerk” gear by your logic.

Non-zerk gear is not training wheels-it’s a gameplay choice. Allow people to play how they wish, as it’s their free choice.

I play the way I want to play. If other people don’t like it, too kitten bad for them. They don’t have to play with me. If they invite me to a group and then suddenly decide I need to ‘conform’ to some specific gear or build, I leave. They want to give me crap about it, I toss them on ignore.

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

Toughness – doesn’t contribute to the party, selfish
Vitality – doesn’t contribute to the party, selfish
Healing Power (armour stat) – effect is negligible, waste of a stat
Boon Duration (armour stat) – negligible, useless
Condition Damage – Probably replacing a useful stat, cond damage is weaker than regular damage
Condition Duration – above

Magic Find – anything is better than this, full leech stat
Can’t think of any others. On the other hand:

Power: helps deal more damage to bring enemies down quicker, useful
Precision: increases chance of critical hits, crits do a base of 150% the damage of normal hits so you want crits to help deal damage
Crit damage: Makes your crits stronger, can be infinitely stacked with no worry, becomes very reliable extra damage with precision stacking

MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided

“I will increase my chance of better loot and contribute jack all to the party” seems selfish to me.

OP, stop being a carebear, some stat combinations are better than others.

If you wore magic find gear in a dungeon group. I would kick you from party in a heart beat.

Clumsy.6257:

edit2: lol @ above post, if anyone bought mf ascended items they deserve to lose them

Comment at your last statement-you are way more selfish than any MF gear user for stating such a callous thing. People got those things because ANet put them in the game, and they deserve some sort of replacement or stat substitution, and even ANet knows and is working on that.

I “LOL” at your lack of maturity, seriously.

Star Ace.5207:

colesy.8490:

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

Toughness – doesn’t contribute to the party, selfish
Vitality – doesn’t contribute to the party, selfish
Healing Power (armour stat) – effect is negligible, waste of a stat
Boon Duration (armour stat) – negligible, useless
Condition Damage – Probably replacing a useful stat, cond damage is weaker than regular damage
Condition Duration – above

Magic Find – anything is better than this, full leech stat
Can’t think of any others. On the other hand:

Power: helps deal more damage to bring enemies down quicker, useful
Precision: increases chance of critical hits, crits do a base of 150% the damage of normal hits so you want crits to help deal damage
Crit damage: Makes your crits stronger, can be infinitely stacked with no worry, becomes very reliable extra damage with precision stacking

MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided

“I will increase my chance of better loot and contribute jack all to the party” seems selfish to me.

OP, stop being a carebear, some stat combinations are better than others.

I bet my account that ANet disagrees with your “logic” above.

It’s good to care, BTW. I would recommend for you to do the same.

Poor old cartoon used as a pejorative. :P

If it’s so selfish to play the way you wouldn’t, why does ANet allows it?

Anet allows it because they’re useful outside of PVE. PVP is a condition meta, PTV is very popular in WVW for survivability in zergs, but even in WVW healing power has mixed opinions on it, boon duration hardly matters since boons are constantly being reapplied, and MF … well Anet wanted to give us a way to improve our chances of getting better loot, but didn’t properly think it through, hence the changes they’re making to it now.

From a dungeon perspective however (open world PVE doesn’t matter, you can use any old trash there), can you honestly disagree with my assessment of the stats though? And if you do, go stat by stat and explain why, taking in to an account that this hypothetical dungeon party is competent, if not sort of competent.

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

Star Ace.5207:

EVERY STAT COMBO IS VIABLE, AND MADE OFFICIALLY AVAILABLE BY ANET. RESPECT EVERYONE’S RIGHT TO USE WHAT’S MADE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST WHAT’S POPULAR AND SUPPOSED TO BE “EFFECTIVE” AND THE “RIGHT WAY” TO PLAY GW2.

Berserker’s gear is a fine way to play-and so is everything else in the game.

You are missing a huge point here… Firstly effective, viable, and optimal are not interchangeable.

You are correct every stat combo is viable, meaning you can do content with that particular combo, and Anet did make all the combinations of stats to be competitive with one another in this game.

You are also correct that every stat combo is effective in that it works in completing content.

However

Every stat combo is not optimal, not by a long shot. the difference in a team completing content wearing all cleric, soldier, or shaman stat gear is going to be many times slower than the group wearing all rampager, berserker, or valkyrie. Because this makes farming that much faster and all rewards are the same no matter your speed there is a definite edge to playing as DPS.

The Idea of someone being selfish for not being DPS, comes from a simple fact that every class can build for glass cannon, and survive any encounter as such if a good amount of effort is put into dodging, self healing and situational awareness. This makes anyone who is wearing a survivability gear (seemingly) fall into the category of; not very good at the game, or lazy and wanting to be carried.

People don’t want to play with either person in those categories. And so you get posts like you were referring to. And while I feel no one should put anyone down over their choice, I also feel you should respect their choice to not play with people that they perceive as bad at the game or lazy.

colesy.8490:

Anet allows it because they’re useful outside of PVE. PVP is a condition meta, PTV is very popular in WVW for survivability in zergs, but even in WVW healing power has mixed opinions on it, boon duration hardly matters since boons are constantly being reapplied, and MF … well Anet wanted to give us a way to improve our chances of getting better loot, but didn’t properly think it through, hence the changes they’re making to it now.

From a dungeon perspective however (open world PVE doesn’t matter, you can use any old trash there), can you honestly disagree with my assessment of the stats though? And if you do, go stat by stat and explain why, taking in to an account that this hypothetical dungeon party is competent, if not sort of competent.

Yes, I disagree, but that’s OK.

Do you have an official statement from ANet that you are supposed to use only Berserker’s stats for Dungeons, or else you are being a selfish player? From what I read, that’s only your interpretation based on what you have accepted as truth from the “meta.” I bet many players do well on any content with something else you would never in your “right mind” use-and I bet these players aren’t selfish either just because of that.

Break down each stat and tell me why they would be useful in a competent dungeon party. Just a sentence will do, like I did.

Key word is competent.

Star Ace.5207:

Because not everybody is you, that’s why. And you shouldn’t expect others to think and play like you do.

And that’s why many, many stat combos are available in the game. Otherwise laurel merchants would only sell “Zerk” gear by your logic.

Non-zerk gear is not training wheels-it’s a gameplay choice. Allow people to play how they wish, as it’s their free choice.

It’s not because gear exists that it makes sense. Case in point : the MF/Vitality/Toughness gear. I shudder to think of players using that in my party :’(

Clumsy.6257:

… why would anyone want to spend 45 mins in a dungeon vs the 10 mins it should actually take, speed run or not, ex: your driving your car to work everyday, should take 15 mins to get to work, why would you intentionally waste time and gas by taking a much longer route

Poor analogy. You’re assuming that taking longer in a dungeon is inherently un-fun. You’re too goal oriented; something the OP and others have pointed out is the problem. Instead, you should be enjoying the ride.

A better analogy would be:
Would you rather take the direct 15min route home, or try that snazzy, windy back-road that will take longer but could be fun and definitely something new? Sometimes it’s about the journey, not the destination. Especially, when we’re all headed to the same place. Make it fun.

It’s a pretty well-known “fact” that berserker gear leads to the highest dps. Thankfully, we don’t have dps counters, or we’d also know specifically which builds, traits, even professions were the highest dps-ers, with no gray area. Suddenly, we’d go from zerker-or-bust to warrior-with-this-exact-specific-build-or-bust. Pigeonholing players to only play a certain gear type is selfish, because you’re forcing everyone else to play by your style.

Viable, yes. As effective? No.
I don’t want to play dungeon for 3 hours just because you have random traits and awful dmg output.

Star Ace.5207:

colesy.8490:

Anet allows it because they’re useful outside of PVE. PVP is a condition meta, PTV is very popular in WVW for survivability in zergs, but even in WVW healing power has mixed opinions on it, boon duration hardly matters since boons are constantly being reapplied, and MF … well Anet wanted to give us a way to improve our chances of getting better loot, but didn’t properly think it through, hence the changes they’re making to it now.

From a dungeon perspective however (open world PVE doesn’t matter, you can use any old trash there), can you honestly disagree with my assessment of the stats though? And if you do, go stat by stat and explain why, taking in to an account that this hypothetical dungeon party is competent, if not sort of competent.

Yes, I disagree, but that’s OK.

Do you have an official statement from ANet that you are supposed to use only Berserker’s stats for Dungeons, or else you are being a selfish player? From what I read, that’s only your interpretation based on what you have accepted as truth from the “meta.” I bet many players do well on any content with something else you would never in your “right mind” use-and I bet these players aren’t selfish either just because of that.

It is not anets business to identify the best gear for the game and remove all other, that´s up to the players. This is not an opinion vs. opinion thread. DPS is king in the current game design when it comes to PvE and Berserker Gear offers the best synergy of stats for this – by far. That is simply not debatable seriously. Yes, other gear is viable to play the game.

Anet is not there to police player gear based on what is perceived as “selfish” and what is not, how on earth do you get this idea? The conclusion: Play any way you like regardless ofwhat the Zerker fans say. On the other hand, you are in no place to demand of them to accept you into their groups with equipment they dislike, most of which is in fact subpar compared to Berserker stats.

Seras.5702:

Clumsy.6257:

… why would anyone want to spend 45 mins in a dungeon vs the 10 mins it should actually take, speed run or not, ex: your driving your car to work everyday, should take 15 mins to get to work, why would you intentionally waste time and gas by taking a much longer route

Poor analogy. You’re assuming that taking longer in a dungeon is inherently un-fun. You’re too goal oriented; something the OP and others have pointed out is the problem. Instead, you should be enjoying the ride.

A better analogy would be:
Would you rather take the direct 15min route home, or try that snazzy, windy back-road that will take longer but could be fun and definitely something new? Sometimes it’s about the journey, not the destination. Especially, when we’re all headed to the same place. Make it fun.

A more pertinent analogy would be to compare the direct 15min route home to the same route only with you getting a two minutes break every minute to stretch your legs.

Algreg.3629:

Star Ace.5207:

colesy.8490:

Anet allows it because they’re useful outside of PVE. PVP is a condition meta, PTV is very popular in WVW for survivability in zergs, but even in WVW healing power has mixed opinions on it, boon duration hardly matters since boons are constantly being reapplied, and MF … well Anet wanted to give us a way to improve our chances of getting better loot, but didn’t properly think it through, hence the changes they’re making to it now.

From a dungeon perspective however (open world PVE doesn’t matter, you can use any old trash there), can you honestly disagree with my assessment of the stats though? And if you do, go stat by stat and explain why, taking in to an account that this hypothetical dungeon party is competent, if not sort of competent.

Yes, I disagree, but that’s OK.

Do you have an official statement from ANet that you are supposed to use only Berserker’s stats for Dungeons, or else you are being a selfish player? From what I read, that’s only your interpretation based on what you have accepted as truth from the “meta.” I bet many players do well on any content with something else you would never in your “right mind” use-and I bet these players aren’t selfish either just because of that.

It is not anets business to identify the best gear for the game and remove all other, that´s up to the players. This is not an opinion vs. opinion thread. DPS is king in the current game design when it comes to PvE and Berserker Gear offers the best synergy of stats for this – by far. That is simply not debatable seriously. Yes, other gear is viable to play the game.

Anet is not there to police player gear based on what is perceived as “selfish” and what is not, how on earth do you get this idea? The conclusion: Play any way you like regardless ofwhat the Zerker fans say. On the other hand, you are in no place to demand of them to accept you into their groups with equipment they dislike, most of which is in fact subpar compared to Berserker stats.

You are right, is all player perception. Or lack thereof. Accepting metas blindly is also dangerous, or at the very best, limits possibilities.

But I have never asked to be in these groups-I detest the attitude. However, my point is that "anything less than “zerk” is being selfish" is a totally flawed argument, because you can’t judge someone’s character based on the gear that works well for them that may not be what the current “speedclear” meta is. People don’t choose gear to inconvenience others. And elitist groups should just party with each other, rather than claiming that others that don’t play like them are being “selfish” for “slowing them down.” Darn, just don’t play with them then, and don’t complain about all things non-zerk?

In all honesty, I do wish that ANet makes it way more harder for direct damage to shine, so that a few players don’t use the excuse that “since there’s no tank/healers,” any other option other than DPS is useless". I feel that ANet probably never wanted it to devolve this way.

Seras.5702:

Clumsy.6257:

… why would anyone want to spend 45 mins in a dungeon vs the 10 mins it should actually take, speed run or not, ex: your driving your car to work everyday, should take 15 mins to get to work, why would you intentionally waste time and gas by taking a much longer route

Poor analogy. You’re assuming that taking longer in a dungeon is inherently un-fun. You’re too goal oriented; something the OP and others have pointed out is the problem. Instead, you should be enjoying the ride.

A better analogy would be:
Would you rather take the direct 15min route home, or try that snazzy, windy back-road that will take longer but could be fun and definitely something new? Sometimes it’s about the journey, not the destination. Especially, when we’re all headed to the same place. Make it fun.

It’s a pretty well-known “fact” that berserker gear leads to the highest dps. Thankfully, we don’t have dps counters, or we’d also know specifically which builds, traits, even professions were the highest dps-ers, with no gray area. Suddenly, we’d go from zerker-or-bust to warrior-with-this-exact-specific-build-or-bust. Pigeonholing players to only play a certain gear type is selfish, because you’re forcing everyone else to play by your style.

sorry i see your point on the analogy, let me clarify, you have 1 hour (just for analogy purposes), your drive home takes a minimum of 15 minutes, and while scenic the longer route takes 30 mins, once finished your left with either 45 mins or 30 mins of free time, personally I value my time so I would take the shorter route every time, the question is would you rather be in a dungeon for 1 hour or 15 minutes? being in a dungeon 15 minutes means you have 45 minutes more than the slow team to do w/e you want

stof.9341:

Seras.5702:

Clumsy.6257:

… why would anyone want to spend 45 mins in a dungeon vs the 10 mins it should actually take, speed run or not, ex: your driving your car to work everyday, should take 15 mins to get to work, why would you intentionally waste time and gas by taking a much longer route

Poor analogy. You’re assuming that taking longer in a dungeon is inherently un-fun. You’re too goal oriented; something the OP and others have pointed out is the problem. Instead, you should be enjoying the ride.

A better analogy would be:
Would you rather take the direct 15min route home, or try that snazzy, windy back-road that will take longer but could be fun and definitely something new? Sometimes it’s about the journey, not the destination. Especially, when we’re all headed to the same place. Make it fun.

A more pertinent analogy would be to compare the direct 15min route home to the same route only with you getting a two minutes break every minute to stretch your legs.

I chose my analogy because I think about how I’d hate to be forced to run my engi as full-zerker grenades-only and that running another build, like FT/EG support is something different, fun, enjoyable even if I can’t kill stuff as fast. I’m still very useful to a group, but it’s a completely different play style. It’s not just about taking longer, but having a different experience. I don’t want to spam aoe circles for 15 mins if I can be more dynamic.

Nick.6972:

Viable, yes. As effective? No.
I don’t want to play dungeon for 3 hours just because you have random traits and awful dmg output.

Isn’t this a bit of an exaggeration? You can’t believe your own words.

If a dungeon takes that long, it happened due to not knowing the Dungeon well/ needing more experience with their Profession, which no amount of “right gear” would have solved.

Clumsy.6257:

sorry i see your point on the analogy, let me clarify, you have 1 hour (just for analogy purposes), your drive home takes a minimum of 15 minutes, and while scenic the longer route takes 30 mins, once finished your left with either 45 mins or 30 mins of free time, personally I value my time so I would take the shorter route every time, the question is would you rather be in a dungeon for 1 hour or 15 minutes? being in a dungeon 15 minutes means you have 45 minutes more than the slow team to do w/e you want

But I’m playing GW2 and running dungeons. Clearly, what I want to do is be in a dungeon.

Like in GW1.
Warriors with Meteorit Shower and Frenzy.
“I can equip stafff, my build is good.”

So I guess you’ve never done Arah p4 then. You’ve never seen those stuck at simin for six hour horror stories?

Also, you still haven’t explained what makes other stats good and not selfish/useless in dungeons.

Clumsy.6257:

except your wrong… in multiple posts on the forums and in podcasts as early as late 2012 anet said they know MF is selfish

Except you’re wrong. Devs never said anything like that.

I actually used to run a full MF set (6 pieces) and it was crap. :|

You couldn’t even deal much damage, and you really didn’t get that many golds, much less exotics. And if you’re curious, I was running 5 rune of the pirate 1rune of the traveler, with sigil of luck (All superior level) and I was capping out around 50-70% MF All things considered. (Food boosts, banner buffs).

Honestly, it’s more one of those things that are theoretically brilliant but actually pretty crap when it comes to walking the walk.

Seras.5702:

But I’m playing GW2 and running dungeons. Clearly, what I want to do is be in a dungeon.

That is the difference between you and others.

Some people have run that particular dungeon a dozen times. Some people have run it 200 times. They are not there for the dungeon they are there for the reward.

To use your driving analogy. You may want to go shopping because you like the drive, and you love to just spend time at the store, its fun to you. But recognize some people just need to get groceries for their family. The fastest route is optimal because they have a goal. If you were carpooling it is reasonable that you taking an hour for a 15 minute drive would upset them.

colesy.8490:

So I guess you’ve never done Arah p4 then. You’ve never seen those stuck at simin for six hour horror stories?

Also, you still haven’t explained what makes other stats good and not selfish/useless in dungeons.

Ask ANet, not me. They put them in place, by your logic, to tempt people to be “selfish”.

So I guess they should be removed from the game like MF gear was “selfish” too. :P

I promise I will tell admit that you are right, if an ANet employee replies to this post saying that we should all use Berserker’s on dungeons, or else are being selfish. I think it’s your interpretation of the game, rather than what the developer’s really believe (which is probably for player’s to use whatever gears fit their playstyle.)

“People must play the way I do, or they are otherwise being selfish…” does that really compute for you, or can you read the irony in it?

So… MF gear is changing? Where is this said? I don’t come to the forums often, so I don’t know where this is said (I did look btw)

On topic, before I stopped playing for a while, no one seemed to care I was in MF gear. I pulled my weight and usually performed better than my peers. I wasn’t being selfish, it’s just I usually spent time farming than I did with groups, and was the best thing I have available to wear (exotics MF). That’s not to say I haven’t been working on an alternate set of armor such as a zerkers set so that I could be of abit more use. I don’t mind having 2 different sets of armor lugging around in my inventory. It’s just taken me longer because I wanted to transmute it onto culture armor.

On that note, only 1 of my alts has MF gear. All the others are geared properly. I don’t see why people can’t do the same, as well as be more understanding of someone wearing MF gear. Being in MF doesn’t make a person “bad”. I think it’s more selfish to kick someone wearing it

However if MF is being removed or changed in some sort of way, this will greatly effect me, as I put a lot of time and effort into my MF gear (it being exotic and appearance transmuted). I don’t see why Anet has the right to change it or remove it just because people have a certain ‘opinion’ about it (again, someone please link me to where this said if you could)

Lokki.1092:

Seras.5702:

But I’m playing GW2 and running dungeons. Clearly, what I want to do is be in a dungeon.

That is the difference between you and others.

Some people have run that particular dungeon a dozen times. Some people have run it 200 times. They are not there for the dungeon they are there for the reward.

To use your driving analogy. You may want to go shopping because you like the drive, and you love to just spend time at the store, its fun to you. But recognize some people just need to get groceries for their family. The fastest route is optimal because they have a goal. If you were carpooling it is reasonable that you taking an hour for a 15 minute drive would upset them.

That’s a fair point and a good analogy. Unfortunately, the only way to solve this is for a LFG system to have an option box for:
- speed runs (know the fights & shortcuts, zerker only, w-w-w-w-m)
- non-speed runs (don’t be an idiot, that is all)

Nick.6972:

Like in GW1.
Warriors with Meteorit Shower and Frenzy.
“I can equip stafff, my build is good.”

So you need to go cookie-cutter or else?

One of the reasons GW1 wasn’t such a good experience for me is that besides my Guild, I found it full of people who wouldn’t want me to play anything but what was accepted and popular. It was way worse than in GW2, ironically. Too many “noob” words being thrown around without any thought, as if players didn’t know what they were doing just for doing things differently.

Of course you can make a build that isn’t too good, but that doesn’t mean that anything that isn’t cookie-cutter is bad either.

Well I guess since other gear stats are not ‘acceptable’ to what seems to be the majority of the player base, armor stats should simply be removed.

While we’re at it, since so many people seem to hate so many of the armor skins, we’ll vote on which single one is the best for each armor type and we will have only that single skin for everyone in that armor type. So, we’ll all have the same skin and the same stats.

Next, we’ll remove all the weapons from each profession except for the optimal set, this way we no longer have any weapon discrimination. Don’t forget to remove all the stats from weapons too, nothing except zerkers is allowed on anything anymore.

/ end sarcasm

Variety is the spice of life. Opting to run something other than zerkers is not selfish. It does not make you bad. Running something that isnt completely optimal is not the end of the world.

It was not removed due to that comment it was removed as “MF” gear is selfish. Not any gear besides magic find. I think we will like the new system when they implement it.

I’d say there are definitely places for non-zerk gear. One example that comes to mind is a PUG I’d joined to run a dungeon. I had some non-zerk gear equipped just to give me a bit of extra toughness and vitality since I wanted to balance my DPS with the ability to stay alive. At one point in the dungeon there was some environmental effects and things going on and the other 4 players went down. I nearly did but managed to stay alive long enough to back up and work my way back to them slowly and eventually cleared the problem spot and revived them.

I know that’s just one example, but it helps underscore at least to me that players can define their own “optimal”.

Star Ace.5207:

Nick.6972:

Like in GW1.
Warriors with Meteorit Shower and Frenzy.
“I can equip stafff, my build is good.”

So you need to go cookie-cutter or else?

One of the reasons GW1 wasn’t such a good experience for me is that besides my Guild, I found it full of people who wouldn’t want me to play anything but what was accepted and popular. It was way worse than in GW2, ironically. Too many “noob” words being thrown around without any thought, as if players didn’t know what they were doing just for doing things differently.

Of course you can make a build that isn’t too good, but that doesn’t mean that anything that isn’t cookie-cutter is bad either.

You don’t need the most optimal build, just the one that works good and which actually helps your party and not slows down them.
Not to mention, back in days I saw rangers running pet skills with no pet, how stupid must one be to make a build like that? I think I have a screenshot somewhere on the old pc.

The main issue is the Devs have said MF does not promote the group aspect of the game the way they like. Following their line of thinking with MF, any other stat combination other than zerker is less than optimal and therefore doesn’t promote the group aspect of the game and thus selfish.

I don’t agree with this, not even with the MF argument, but the Devs have made pretty much said anything other than the optimal build is not promoting the party dynamics they wish to and thus zerker is the way to go.

It is widely known, and sometimes debatle, that zerker stats are by far the best stats to have in the game. Bringing anything other than this could be considered selfish.

This is a ridiculous path that they have gone down by talking about eliminating MF and they are, in fact, promoting using one build over any other.

I enjoy the build diversity and the choices available to all. Zerker gear shouldn’t be getting the ‘stamp of apporval’ from the powers that be. Promote build diversity. Don’t promote elitism.

Seras.5702:

That’s a fair point and a good analogy. Unfortunately, the only way to solve this is for a LFG system to have an option box for:
- speed runs (know the fights & shortcuts, zerker only, w-w-w-w-m)
- non-speed runs (don’t be an idiot, that is all)

I agree completely, and as a person who has never not once requested all DPS teams the fact is that participating in optimized DPS teams doing any PvE content is a vastly superior experience in speed and efficiency. I never do or will make a team only for DPS but you bet your kitten when I get into one I am happy.

The fact is that MF gear forces the player to make a choice between better loot or better combat effectiveness. The outcome of that choice affects the cohesion of group gameplay. Anet have stated from the very beginning that they want this game to promote cooperation above all else. Having a decision exist which damages cooperation is counter-intuitive to the design philosophy.

My name is Cesmode and I approve this thread.
/signed
+10

I.E. I agree with the OP 110%

Nick.6972:

You don’t need the most optimal build, just the one that works good and which actually helps your party and not slows down them.
Not to mention, back in days I saw rangers running pet skills with no pet, how stupid must one be to make a build like that? I think I have a screenshot somewhere on the old pc.

By the very nature of taking a spot and dealing less damage than you could do, or someone else would do in your spot you are slowing the party down. That is exactly the point of the Zerker vs non Zerker argument.

[sarcasm]

Speedrun performance in G/hour is dependent on the group. No Zerk punishes your teammates.

Join the hive mind of dungeon speedrunners.

[/sarcasm]

And again: “You can’t decide what others should play, but I can decide what you should play”. ^^

If I am doing a speed run of course I will want to do as many runs as fast as I can and for that I need an “optimal” group. If you don’t want to be a part of that group I don’t care and neither should you. Leave me to my own devices because that’s what I want to do in that moment.

If I am just doing dungeons “normally” with my friends (not a speed run) I don’t care what they play because speed and time aren’t that much relevant anymore. I’m not going to order them what to carry.

So I don’t get why are you so upset about this?

The bitter irony behind it all is those that are insisting on “zerk” gear only are the most selfish people in the game. It matters little to them how someone else wants to play the game. The only thing that matters is they can squeeze out that one extra CoF run so their selfish desires for that extra run trump all else.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

I don’t agree with this, not even with the MF argument, but the Devs have made pretty much said anything other than the optimal build is not promoting the party dynamics they wish to and thus zerker is the way to go.

That’s not what they said.

Lokki.1092:

Nick.6972:

You don’t need the most optimal build, just the one that works good and which actually helps your party and not slows down them.
Not to mention, back in days I saw rangers running pet skills with no pet, how stupid must one be to make a build like that? I think I have a screenshot somewhere on the old pc.

By the very nature of taking a spot and dealing less damage than you could do, or someone else would do in your spot you are slowing the party down. That is exactly the point of the Zerker vs non Zerker argument.

By this logic, some Professions are easier to gear up and build in a way that deal easier direct damage, and thus, they would be preferable. I highly doubt that such a thing is ANet’s intent. Basically, it would be OKing Profession discrimination for the sakes of “speedclear” efficiency.