Guild Wars 2

Really curious if these zerker-elitists think that “speedrunning” CoF P1 in ..9 minutes, 10, is way more profitable than 15.

You’ll get 2 more runs in an hour. 1.5 gold? Eh, maybe worth it..maybe not. Depends who you ask. But I don’t think these elitists are racking in 5+ gold more than the regular group that finishes in 15. So to me, you guys are funny =)

This is obviously pre-todays patch.

Akadai.9561:

So… MF gear is changing? Where is this said? I don’t come to the forums often, so I don’t know where this is said (I did look btw)

On topic, before I stopped playing for a while, no one seemed to care I was in MF gear. I pulled my weight and usually performed better than my peers. I wasn’t being selfish, it’s just I usually spent time farming than I did with groups, and was the best thing I have available to wear (exotics MF). That’s not to say I haven’t been working on an alternate set of armor such as a zerkers set so that I could be of abit more use. I don’t mind having 2 different sets of armor lugging around in my inventory. It’s just taken me longer because I wanted to transmute it onto culture armor.

On that note, only 1 of my alts has MF gear. All the others are geared properly. I don’t see why people can’t do the same, as well as be more understanding of someone wearing MF gear. Being in MF doesn’t make a person “bad”. I think it’s more selfish to kick someone wearing it

However if MF is being removed or changed in some sort of way, this will greatly effect me, as I put a lot of time and effort into my MF gear (it being exotic and appearance transmuted). I don’t see why Anet has the right to change it or remove it just because people have a certain ‘opinion’ about it (again, someone please link me to where this said if you could)

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

AntiGw.9367:

Clumsy.6257:

except your wrong… in multiple posts on the forums and in podcasts as early as late 2012 anet said they know MF is selfish

Except you’re wrong. Devs never said anything like that.

they did, on multiple occasions, go find the podcast if you want to, im sure its on twich/youtube somewhere

The benefit for magic find is minimal “in most of the dungeon”. Since MF dont’ affect chest. So only dungeon with lots of trash you get benefit from MF.

So it is really not worth it for 5 people to wear full magic find gear in most of the dungeon.

But if only 1 person is using magic find, you won’t loss much efficiency.

Now the problem became why does one person deserve more compare to the other 4 people for doing the samething.

Lokki.1092:

Seras.5702:

That’s a fair point and a good analogy. Unfortunately, the only way to solve this is for a LFG system to have an option box for:
- speed runs (know the fights & shortcuts, zerker only, w-w-w-w-m)
- non-speed runs (don’t be an idiot, that is all)

I agree completely, and as a person who has never not once requested all DPS teams the fact is that participating in optimized DPS teams doing any PvE content is a vastly superior experience in speed and efficiency. I never do or will make a team only for DPS but you bet your kitten when I get into one I am happy.

By the way, I feel like 30-50% of the reason a full DPS group is more effective is because of the attitude those players bring to the dungeon, not just the damage. They are in it to win it. They are focused, and determined. They know how to clear content efficiently, because if they don’t, they die. Boxers and martial artists often say that half the fight is mental. A strong, focused attitude is better for getting things done. I find people who run tanky/supporty/balanced builds, who don’t care about speed clearing, tend to be less skillful players. They aren’t as focused or “amped up.” They are just kind of… there. There are only so many hours in the day. I can’t live my life on other people’s terms. I prefer to get things done fast and efficiently. If you slow my dungeon run down, I’ll either kick you or find myself a new group.

cesmode.4257:

Really curious if these zerker-elitists think that “speedrunning” CoF P1 in ..9 minutes, 10, is way more profitable than 15.

You’ll get 2 more runs in an hour. 1.5 gold? Eh, maybe worth it..maybe not. Depends who you ask. But I don’t think these elitists are racking in 5+ gold more than the regular group that finishes in 15. So to me, you guys are funny =)

This is obviously pre-todays patch.

It is really not worth it for dungeon. at least not cof. BUt for other dungeon where there are lots of trash to kill(eg some fractal) it might be worth it.

1.5 gold is much better compare to mf since you don’t get mf buff for chest.

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

Given the mechanics of dungeon bosses in this game, it’s most often people that don’t plan ahead and play smart (i.e. dodge, stay out of red circles, keep moving, etc.) that go down the most. PVT or other gear won’t save you from the big damage spikes you’ll take if you don’t plan ahead and play smart.

If you do plan ahead and play smart, you can do everything in Berserker gear, and kill stuff faster. Killing stuff faster means fewer big damage spikes; dead mobs don’t attack.

The players who go down the most are the ones who don’t plan ahead and play smart, regardless of what gear they use.

@OP: Yah I remember this, I was the one that created the thread on the Guardian forums about whether PVT or Zerker and you and sombody else started a your own mini sub-thread about how PVT was selfish and Zerker was the way to go, and back and forth, at the end I decided to go full zerker, I bought a place-holder exotic PVT set with the WvW rewards till I finis my zerker gear. Unfortunately the game is forgiving enough to go full damage and still survive, specially guardians which have a 11/10 surviving stuff.

As for the thread;

Lokki.1092:

The Idea of someone being selfish for not being DPS, comes from a simple fact that every class can build for glass cannon, and survive any encounter as such if a good amount of effort is put into dodging, self healing and situational awareness. This makes anyone who is wearing a survivability gear (seemingly) fall into the category of; not very good at the game, or lazy and wanting to be carried.

People don’t want to play with either person in those categories. And so you get posts like you were referring to. And while I feel no one should put anyone down over their choice, I also feel you should respect their choice to not play with people that they perceive as bad at the game or lazy.

Unfortunately this is my view too, I wouldnt consider them “lazy” or “bad” since those are strong words, but while if it is a guild members I can put up with it for the sake of friendship, outside of that I dont like having runs slowed down just for the sake of not wanting to be the “dead guy”, some people have too much pride and would rather watch their whole team get decimated than go down and help and be the “downed guy”, hence they get defensive gear, traits, utility and weapons skill just for the sake to be the last man standing while contributing [most of the time] barely anything.

maladikt.2180:

And again: “You can’t decide what others should play, but I can decide what you should play”. ^^

So I don’t get why are you so upset about this?

Quote me when I stated ever on these forums that you shouldn’t use Berserker’s gear on your speedruns (or wherever else, I don’t care what about what people use.)

However, some people DO CARE about what others use, and if it isn’t “zerk” they call them “selfish.” That is what’s wrong. This is not a complaint against Berserker’s gear or its users. Just play with your zerk groups only, and stop insulting other people for not playing the way you want (not aimed at you, I don’t know what your position is and this is not personal.)

Min/maxers greatly exaggerate the effect of an individual’s gear. The fact is, and individual is just one person out of 5. If someone joined an all zerk party and did absolutely nothing, the run would take 25% longer. An 8 minute run would take 10 minutes, assuming the entire 8 minutes is spent fighting which is not even close to the case. More time is wasted waiting for people to sell their crap at vendor or arrive at the dungeon than that.

This min/max zerk only attitude was nurtured by ANet and their inability to balance dungeon run rewards. When groups are running one path repeatedly out of the 20+ available because diminishing returns rewards are better than what you get from every other path, players are naturally going to gravitate to whatever is the fastest even if it’s not necessarily the best in non-optimized situations.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I play the way I want to play. If other people don’t like it, too kitten bad for them. They don’t have to play with me. If they invite me to a group and then suddenly decide I need to ‘conform’ to some specific gear or build, I leave. They want to give me crap about it, I toss them on ignore.

PS this fits the definition of selfish almost exactly.

Adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure.

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

Yaki.9563:

Min/maxers greatly exaggerate the effect of an individual’s gear. The fact is, and individual is just one person out of 5. If someone joined an all zerk party and did absolutely nothing, the run would take 25% longer. An 8 minute run would take 10 minutes, assuming the entire 8 minutes is spent fighting which is not even close to the case. More time is wasted waiting for people to sell their crap at vendor or arrive at the dungeon than that.

I’d say 30 to 60% longer depending on the specifics of the fight. Remember that one big factor in fights is matching your ability sustain to the encounter duration.. A team of 5 zerk players will survive for a 1 minute boss fight, the same team with 4 will be out of important cooldowns or out of health and regen before they last for the whole 1min 15s caused by the lack of one player.

cesmode.4257:

Really curious if these zerker-elitists think that “speedrunning” CoF P1 in ..9 minutes, 10, is way more profitable than 15.

You’ll get 2 more runs in an hour. 1.5 gold? Eh, maybe worth it..maybe not. Depends who you ask. But I don’t think these elitists are racking in 5+ gold more than the regular group that finishes in 15. So to me, you guys are funny =)

This is obviously pre-todays patch.

Dude you should have seen some of the posts on gw2lfg.com. I mean, I consider myself a bit of an elitist, but I only go so far. Some people are insane. They wanted full zerk armor with ruby orbs or divinity runes, ascended zerk trinkets, axe with 10% vs flame legion and mace with bloodlust, GS with 10% flame legion, must have food and oil, and if you didn’t have everything, you were kicked.

Way over the top… I’ve happy if you just bring a strong dps build, whether it’s full zerk, or part zerk/ part valk, or even carrion. Just don’t be a scrub. I just don’t run with lowbies wearing greens/yellows and kick people who clearly don’t know how to play. Any class comp can clear CoF in less than 15 minutes. It’s the players skill that counts.

Xenon.4537:

Lokki.1092:

Seras.5702:

That’s a fair point and a good analogy. Unfortunately, the only way to solve this is for a LFG system to have an option box for:
- speed runs (know the fights & shortcuts, zerker only, w-w-w-w-m)
- non-speed runs (don’t be an idiot, that is all)

I agree completely, and as a person who has never not once requested all DPS teams the fact is that participating in optimized DPS teams doing any PvE content is a vastly superior experience in speed and efficiency. I never do or will make a team only for DPS but you bet your kitten when I get into one I am happy.

By the way, I feel like 30-50% of the reason a full DPS group is more effective is because of the attitude those players bring to the dungeon, not just the damage. They are in it to win it. They are focused, and determined. They know how to clear content efficiently, because if they don’t, they die. Boxers and martial artists often say that half the fight is mental. A strong, focused attitude is better for getting things done. I find people who run tanky/supporty/balanced builds, who don’t care about speed clearing, tend to be less skillful players. They aren’t as focused or “amped up.” They are just kind of… there. There are only so many hours in the day. I can’t live my life on other people’s terms. I prefer to get things done fast and efficiently. If you slow my dungeon run down, I’ll either kick you or find myself a new group.

That’s your opinion, not fact, though. Gear has nothing to do with player’s attitude. A player may very well have a Warrior with Berserker’s, but be using another non-Warrior with an alternate gear for a Dungeon, and may be as skilled as your elitist friends.

In other words, you think Berserker’s are de facto “leet” who take the game “more seriously”, as you do, but IME, I personally know players who are rather inexperienced and not that great who only use the gear you want to get a slot in “zerk” groups-not because they are “great”, “serious”, “committed to the goal at hand”, etc. The meta you force on them makes them use the gear you want them to use-they don’t necessarily go for the gear because they are “great gw2 players” and “non-lazy.”

And BTW, I don’t know if you studied personality types, but it’s perfectly fine for people NOT to be like you, and you don’t have to criticize them as “lazy” or “just there” because they don’t want to do things your fast, efficient way. They shouldn’t criticize you either, as you are you, but being you doesn’t mean that you are “better” than them.

“I can’t live my life on other’s terms” that’s your preference, but sometimes we have to, and not everybody is geared up that way either-and that’s OK.

cesmode.4257:

Really curious if these zerker-elitists think that “speedrunning” CoF P1 in ..9 minutes, 10, is way more profitable than 15.

You’ll get 2 more runs in an hour. 1.5 gold? Eh, maybe worth it..maybe not. Depends who you ask. But I don’t think these elitists are racking in 5+ gold more than the regular group that finishes in 15. So to me, you guys are funny =)

This is obviously pre-todays patch.

unless your a PUGstar then your runs will be more like 6 – 6.5 minutes, but thats beside the point, cof p1 is so easy that you could run it naked in 15 minutes, its more about running every other dungeon in the game within a reasonable amount of time

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

Was just thinking that, when you go down thats 2 players “not contributing to DPS and crap”

So i would apply same logic – if you go down in zerk gear -> dump from the group (selfish)

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

I always knew they’d remove magic find gear, either because of abuses or the fact it seems out of place anyway. The thing I hate about it is I normally throw magic find on characters 75 to 80 to try and help them find some nice yellows and extra crafting mats to make good gear. I look at it like a way to boost your chances to get into better gear.

Personally I’d rather have the flat buff for all my characters or the food buff. The problem is this sets a disturbing trend towards not min-maxing is a sign of selfish behavior. If stuff dies in a reasonable amount of time in a dungeon, I don’t care if I carry someone. I’ve only done one or two fractals and non of the dungeons here. I don’t really like running them in other MMOs simply because I hate the way people treat others. I’m worried, like someone else in this thread mentioned, that this will give more fuel to that fire. I really just want to play for fun and exploration.

Honestly why can’t we just play for fun? What happened to us as players? When all that matters is speed and the fastest way to advance, are we really still having fun? Or did we just turn something that should be a fun past time into a mini job?

Xenon.4537:

cesmode.4257:

Really curious if these zerker-elitists think that “speedrunning” CoF P1 in ..9 minutes, 10, is way more profitable than 15.

You’ll get 2 more runs in an hour. 1.5 gold? Eh, maybe worth it..maybe not. Depends who you ask. But I don’t think these elitists are racking in 5+ gold more than the regular group that finishes in 15. So to me, you guys are funny =)

This is obviously pre-todays patch.

Dude you should have seen some of the posts on gw2lfg.com. I mean, I consider myself a bit of an elitist, but I only go so far. Some people are insane. They wanted full zerk armor with ruby orbs or divinity runes, ascended zerk trinkets, axe with 10% vs flame legion and mace with bloodlust, GS with 10% flame legion, must have food and oil, and if you didn’t have everything, you were kicked.

Way over the top… I’ve happy if you just bring a strong dps build, whether it’s full zerk, or part zerk/ part valk, or even carrion. Just don’t be a scrub. I just don’t run with lowbies wearing greens/yellows and kick people who clearly don’t know how to play. Any class comp can clear CoF in less than 15 minutes. It’s the players skill that counts.

I’ve seen such posts, and it’s sad, but I guess it’s their choice. I like when they post such things because it helps me avoid them. :P

It’s worth to be said that not all speedrunners are selfish jerks. Some people are very nice and just have not much time, so they feel pressured to skip mobs, etc., but the more vocal ones-like the ones in your example-really give them all a bad reputation.

If you can run zerk and not die, then run zerk. Do as much damage as you can do while not dying. Don’t go beyond your own ability and cause your team to suffer even more. THAT is selfish.

Xenon.4537:

cesmode.4257:

Really curious if these zerker-elitists think that “speedrunning” CoF P1 in ..9 minutes, 10, is way more profitable than 15.

You’ll get 2 more runs in an hour. 1.5 gold? Eh, maybe worth it..maybe not. Depends who you ask. But I don’t think these elitists are racking in 5+ gold more than the regular group that finishes in 15. So to me, you guys are funny =)

This is obviously pre-todays patch.

Dude you should have seen some of the posts on gw2lfg.com. I mean, I consider myself a bit of an elitist, but I only go so far. Some people are insane. They wanted full zerk armor with ruby orbs or divinity runes, ascended zerk trinkets, axe with 10% vs flame legion and mace with bloodlust, GS with 10% flame legion, must have food and oil, and if you didn’t have everything, you were kicked.

Way over the top… I’ve happy if you just bring a strong dps build, whether it’s full zerk, or part zerk/ part valk, or even carrion. Just don’t be a scrub. I just don’t run with lowbies wearing greens/yellows and kick people who clearly don’t know how to play. Any class comp can clear CoF in less than 15 minutes. It’s the players skill that counts.

Because 3s sigils, 1s oils, 20s orbs and 0s ascended gear are so hard to get. Bloodlust I’ve never really used but my cof p1 farming party could get like 5 1/2min runs consistently without them, so… meh.

MikaHR.1978:

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

Was just thinking that, when you go down thats 2 players “not contributing to DPS and crap”

So i would apply same logic – if you go down in zerk gear -> dump from the group (selfish)

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

the problem with this logic is that your assuming players in berserker gear will go down, now I’d 100% agree that people that consider cof p1 to be “elite” will go down a lot once they enter into a dungeon that takes thought, but besides that portion of the community 99% of berserkers will rarely if ever get downed, i’ve personally seen about 25+ fotm 48 groups in full berserker not have a single person go down once (except the occasional maw when not 2 guards and 45 ar)

colesy.8490:

Xenon.4537:

cesmode.4257:

Really curious if these zerker-elitists think that “speedrunning” CoF P1 in ..9 minutes, 10, is way more profitable than 15.

You’ll get 2 more runs in an hour. 1.5 gold? Eh, maybe worth it..maybe not. Depends who you ask. But I don’t think these elitists are racking in 5+ gold more than the regular group that finishes in 15. So to me, you guys are funny =)

This is obviously pre-todays patch.

Dude you should have seen some of the posts on gw2lfg.com. I mean, I consider myself a bit of an elitist, but I only go so far. Some people are insane. They wanted full zerk armor with ruby orbs or divinity runes, ascended zerk trinkets, axe with 10% vs flame legion and mace with bloodlust, GS with 10% flame legion, must have food and oil, and if you didn’t have everything, you were kicked.

Way over the top… I’ve happy if you just bring a strong dps build, whether it’s full zerk, or part zerk/ part valk, or even carrion. Just don’t be a scrub. I just don’t run with lowbies wearing greens/yellows and kick people who clearly don’t know how to play. Any class comp can clear CoF in less than 15 minutes. It’s the players skill that counts.

Because 3s sigils, 1s oils, 20s orbs and 0s ascended gear are so hard to get. Bloodlust I’ve never really used but my cof p1 farming party could get like 5 1/2min runs consistently without them, so… meh.

bloodlust would actually heavily reduce your damage, sigil of night is a much better option and much cheaper

Yes they are viable.

Yes you are being a selfish prick by wearing them.

The thing with condition damage is that even though it’s inferior, at least you’re trying to do damage, so like people wearing rampagers I wouldn’t fault them too much.

But if you’re rolling in full soldiers then I have every right to kick you out of my group because you’re essentially leeching. Doing ~5% of the group’s damage just so you can “take a hit” or heal for a couple hundred more every 15-40 seconds is pathetic, and indeed selfish.

Clumsy.6257:

MikaHR.1978:

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

Was just thinking that, when you go down thats 2 players “not contributing to DPS and crap”

So i would apply same logic – if you go down in zerk gear -> dump from the group (selfish)

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

the problem with this logic is that your assuming players in berserker gear will go down, now I’d 100% agree that people that consider cof p1 to be “elite” will go down a lot once they enter into a dungeon that takes thought, but besides that portion of the community 99% of berserkers will rarely if ever get downed, i’ve personally seen about 25+ fotm 48 groups in full berserker not have a single person go down once (except the occasional maw when not 2 guards and 45 ar)

It really comes down to player ability. If a player can run zerker and NOT die, they should definitely run the gear that will deal the most damage. Do as much damage as you can, but survival is a higher priority than damage. Can’t do damage when you’re dead, and your party can’t do damage while they’re rezzing you.

It’s gotta be a personal choice. I’d rather be in a party of tanks who don’t die, than zerkers who do. But at the end of the day I’d rather be in a party of zerkers who don’t die. :-P

Edit for caveat: Obviously certain builds, such as condition builds, work better with different gear. “Zerker” should be replaced with “highest damage armor for your build.”

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

except your not helping the team as much as you could be because you sacrificed important stats for stats that would only benefit you

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

True. And furthermore, since toughness and vitality won’t save you from the big damage gimmicks anyway, they’re only marginally useful.

Berserker gear is actually less selfish. The way PVE encounters are designed in this game, it’s best to kill fast, before the mob does another big damage spike gimmick.

Jemmi.6058:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I play the way I want to play. If other people don’t like it, too kitten bad for them. They don’t have to play with me. If they invite me to a group and then suddenly decide I need to ‘conform’ to some specific gear or build, I leave. They want to give me crap about it, I toss them on ignore.

PS this fits the definition of selfish almost exactly.

Adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure.

Yes and no….

Its only ‘selfish’ if it affects others, which generally speaking it does not. (Ie, they dont have to play with me).

See the first section there ‘lacking concern for others’, my game play affects no one, concerns no one, besides myself unless I am running a dungeon. At which point, I am not running with a group that wants something specific, if they want something that I am not then I leave. Therefore I do not impact them, since they can get someone with the cookie cutter they want. So, you can’t say that I lack concern for others. If I dont fit, I don’t go. Im not impacting their play in anyway.

I play may why, I let them play theirs. I am not trying in any way to force my desire to play my way on them. However, they seem to be the ones trying to force their way of playing on me, by stating that using anything except what they find acceptable as being ‘selfish.’ It is they, that are in faxt, being selfish, in trying to dictate how someone ‘must’ play.

Clumsy.6257:

MikaHR.1978:

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

Was just thinking that, when you go down thats 2 players “not contributing to DPS and crap”

So i would apply same logic – if you go down in zerk gear -> dump from the group (selfish)

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

the problem with this logic is that your assuming players in berserker gear will go down, now I’d 100% agree that people that consider cof p1 to be “elite” will go down a lot once they enter into a dungeon that takes thought, but besides that portion of the community 99% of berserkers will rarely if ever get downed, i’ve personally seen about 25+ fotm 48 groups in full berserker not have a single person go down once (except the occasional maw when not 2 guards and 45 ar)

Theres no problem with logic. It applies exactly the same ways as yours.

99.99% of zerkers get down regularly and hinder the group.

What “youve seen” is irrelevant. Ive seen flying cows (true story).

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

Your logic sucks. If you stay alive as opposed to dying, you’re HELPING your team. How hard is that to understand? Gear for your ability, and for the activity you’re doing.

Zerk in a WvW zerg, for instance, is almost universally a selfish choice, because you dying in two seconds can rally half the enemy zerg. You have to apply context, as well as an individual player’s ability, style, goal, and role. Try running full zerker on a front-line warrior in WvW and watch how fast you die and how many enemies you bring back from the brink.

Clumsy.6257:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

except your not helping the team as much as you could be because you sacrificed important stats for stats that would only benefit you

If you’re not downing as much, you’re team can focus less on saving your butt and more on slaying the enemies’. You’re benefitting your team via self-efficiency.

Clumsy.6257:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

except your not helping the team as much as you could be because you sacrificed important stats for stats that would only benefit you

I’m helping the team as much as necessary. I’m not asking ANYONE what build or what stats I should bring.

Not happy with what I have? Feel free to jump off nearest cliff.

Star Ace.5207:

By this logic, some Professions are easier to gear up and build in a way that deal easier direct damage, and thus, they would be preferable. I highly doubt that such a thing is ANet’s intent. Basically, it would be OKing Profession discrimination for the sakes of “speedclear” efficiency.

You are 100% correct and it already happens. Zerk warrior + guardian/Mesmer is very common these days because they are the easiest to gear up and build in a way to deal direct damage.

I do not have a warrior, but I recognize that when it comes down to clearing content as efficiently and optimally as possible they are the go to because of their ease of use, and forgiving full Zerker spec and gearing.

It isn’t Anet’s intent I would say it is proven because they wanted to have their trinity in effect, (support, control, DPS) but when it comes down to it DPS is king because of problems with support and control in the PvE environment. So the class that does the most (or easiest) DPS become king.

Star Ace.5207:

EVERY STAT COMBO IS VIABLE,

Same kitten again…

Viable in what way?

That you can finish content? So is no gear at all.

Berserker is, for most things, plain superior, as it is the most effective gear. This is a PvE design issue that ANet, with this patch, seemed to be aware of and trying to deter… But for most PvE it’s still berserker or bust.

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

Your stats are helping the team because in the case of the zerker it’s increasing their damage output, whereas without any gear, or bad gear you would be doing a lot less damage.

A team wanting you to pull your weight is not selfish, wanting everyone in zerker is actually to make things smoother and faster for everyone involved.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Jemmi.6058:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I play the way I want to play. If other people don’t like it, too kitten bad for them. They don’t have to play with me. If they invite me to a group and then suddenly decide I need to ‘conform’ to some specific gear or build, I leave. They want to give me crap about it, I toss them on ignore.

PS this fits the definition of selfish almost exactly.

Adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure.

Yes and no….

Its only ‘selfish’ if it affects others, which generally speaking it does not. (Ie, they dont have to play with me).

See the first section there ‘lacking concern for others’, my game play affects no one, concerns no one, besides myself unless I am running a dungeon. At which point, I am not running with a group that wants something specific, if they want something that I am not then I leave. Therefore I do not impact them, since they can get someone with the cookie cutter they want. So, you can’t say that I lack concern for others. If I dont fit, I don’t go. Im not impacting their play in anyway.

I play may why, I let them play theirs. I am not trying in any way to force my desire to play my way on them. However, they seem to be the ones trying to force their way of playing on me, by stating that using anything except what they find acceptable as being ‘selfish.’ It is they, that are in faxt, being selfish, in trying to dictate how someone ‘must’ play.

Disagree. You can enter a dungeon group that did not require a cookie cutter build, but still provide less for your party than you otherwise could, because your concerns are primarily on yourself.

I want to clarify, I do not think there is anything wrong with picking your choice build, or running whatever you want. I do not see anything wrong with a longer than average run of a dungeon (it can be more fun). However, it is selfish, as you are disregarding the consideration of your party members and placing a higher value on your own pleasure of the game.

Just of note and I thought it’d be interesting to add, western economy is based on the idea that everyone acts selfish. A free market is only truly efficient if everyone acts in their own selfish interests. Naturally, that is very theoretical and cannot ever be truly realized.

AntiGw.9367:

Clumsy.6257:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

except your not helping the team as much as you could be because you sacrificed important stats for stats that would only benefit you

I’m helping the team as much as necessary. I’m not asking ANYONE what build or what stats I should bring.

Not happy with what I have? Feel free to jump off nearest cliff.

as much as necessary? really? imagine being at work, your boss sees your just doing enough work to get by, then he has somebody that he knows will work harder than you, your instantly fired and hes hired, its as simple as that, people who do more work will always be preferrred over the lazy slackers

colesy.8490:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

Your stats are helping the team because in the case of the zerker it’s increasing their damage output, whereas without any gear, or bad gear you would be doing a lot less damage.

A team wanting you to pull your weight is not selfish, wanting everyone in zerker is actually to make things smoother and faster for everyone involved.

Increasing my damage output is not the goal of every team out there, so no.

colesy.8490:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

Your stats are helping the team because in the case of the zerker it’s increasing their damage output, whereas without any gear, or bad gear you would be doing a lot less damage.

A team wanting you to pull your weight is not selfish, wanting everyone in zerker is actually to make things smoother and faster for everyone involved.

What happens when the zerker dies when they wouldn’t have if they wore something like Knights? You end up with one of these:

1) One less person finishing the content, which lowers the damage output by up to 1/5 or more.
2) Two less people finishing the content because one person is rezzing another. Damage output decreased by 2/5.
3) Everyone dies because of domino effect caused either by rezzing, or inability to handle the content when down by a person.

Except in rare cases, I’d rather take an extra 30-60 seconds on the content and not have people die, which may cause the content to not be achieved at all….or at the very least will still make it take longer than normal. Your logic is deeply flawed by assuming that every player is perfectly skilled and incapable of dying.

Your logic sucks. If you stay alive as opposed to dying, you’re HELPING your team. How hard is that to understand? Gear for your ability, and for the activity you’re doing.

Right, and in zerker if you dodge the big lethal attacks and then carry on wailing on the boss you’re helping your team as much as possible by doing the maximum damage possible.

Zerk in a WvW zerg, for instance, is almost universally a selfish choice, because you dying in two seconds can rally half the enemy zerg. You have to apply context, as well as an individual player’s ability, style, goal, and role. Try running full zerker on a front-line warrior in WvW and watch how fast you die and how many enemies you bring back from the brink.

Right, and if you read one of my earlier posts I said PVT is popular in WVW for increasing survivability. When I say zerk or go home, I’m referring to dungeon content. It works well in sPVP as well for thieves and mesmers, and I even use it on my WVW mesmer since I’m keeping out the heat of battle and skirmishing and picking off players on the sides, and that applies to pug zerging and guild raids I take part in.

Clumsy.6257:

AntiGw.9367:

Clumsy.6257:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

except your not helping the team as much as you could be because you sacrificed important stats for stats that would only benefit you

I’m helping the team as much as necessary. I’m not asking ANYONE what build or what stats I should bring.

Not happy with what I have? Feel free to jump off nearest cliff.

as much as necessary? really? imagine being at work, your boss sees your just doing enough work to get by, then he has somebody that he knows will work harder than you, your instantly fired and hes hired, its as simple as that, people who do more work will always be preferrred over the lazy slackers

If you’re using the boss example, then keep in mind that the equivalent for someone who uses Zerks is like that of a person who works his backside, but sounds very little time caring about their own state. That same person may end up having to go to health and psychological care more often because they’re more focused on their task, as opposed to themselves. If the employer wanted a robot, he could hire one himself. And somone who doesn’t need to manage their health via external care is much more efficient and capable than someone who’s falling apart the moment something bad happens.

colesy.8490:

Your logic sucks. If you stay alive as opposed to dying, you’re HELPING your team. How hard is that to understand? Gear for your ability, and for the activity you’re doing.

Right, and in zerker if you dodge the big lethal attacks and then carry on wailing on the boss you’re helping your team as much as possible by doing the maximum damage possible.

Everyone is limited to two dodges at a time with a decent sized “cooldown.” What happens when you need a third? You don’t need to take a “big lethal attack” to die in zerker gear. Attacks that would impact someone wearing Knights by barely a pittance will half-kill a zerker.

Right, and if you read one of my earlier posts I said PVT is popular in WVW for increasing survivability. When I say zerk or go home, I’m referring to dungeon content. It works well in sPVP as well for thieves and mesmers, and I even use it on my WVW mesmer since I’m keeping out the heat of battle and skirmishing and picking off players on the sides, and that applies to pug zerging and guild raids I take part in.

Great logic if, yaknow, front-lines didn’t specifically target backlines these days. My guild intentionally kills the squishy backlines FIRST before targetting the front line. Once you kill the squishies, you’ve won the fight.

Hickeroar.9734:

colesy.8490:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

Your stats are helping the team because in the case of the zerker it’s increasing their damage output, whereas without any gear, or bad gear you would be doing a lot less damage.

A team wanting you to pull your weight is not selfish, wanting everyone in zerker is actually to make things smoother and faster for everyone involved.

What happens when the zerker dies when they wouldn’t have if they wore something like Knights? You end up with one of these:

1) One less person finishing the content, which lowers the damage output by up to 1/5 or more.
2) Two less people finishing the content because one person is rezzing another. Damage output decreased by 2/5.
3) Everyone dies because of domino effect caused either by rezzing, or inability to handle the content when down by a person.

Except in rare cases, I’d rather take an extra 30-60 seconds on the content and not have people die, which may cause the content to not be achieved at all….or at the very least will still make it take longer than normal. Your logic is deeply flawed by assuming that every player is perfectly skilled and incapable of dying.

his logic isnt flawed at all, your is, your assuming that most zerkers will go down, most will rarely ever go down, instead in my extensive dungeon experience, its the people using ptv, sentinels, clerics, and knights that go down the most because they’re used to having a giant handicap, then they decide to do content thats harder than open world pve and all the sudden they keep getting killed in 1 hit because they never learned to dodge

Clumsy.6257:

as much as necessary? really? imagine being at work, your boss sees your just doing enough work to get by, then he has somebody that he knows will work harder than you, your instantly fired and hes hired, its as simple as that, people who do more work will always be preferrred over the lazy slackers

Completely irrelevant analogy.

Thank you Clumsy for posting that link. I did actually read that article, but apparently my mind didn’t click on what I was reading. I am now in a wait and see mode on how they make this change. They want to cause as little disruption as possible when the change comes, but it certainly doesn’t take much to disrupt me ¬_¬ and some how I doubt their ability to do this

I also can’t really argue about them removing MF from gear until I see the alternative. It will however ruin all my hard work I put into my MF gear (considering I grinded TA for the appearance of 6 items and 6 transmutation stones)

I guess this means I shouldn’t spend 50 laurels on the MF amulet+utility I wanted? ¬_¬

Hickeroar.9734:

colesy.8490:

Your logic sucks. If you stay alive as opposed to dying, you’re HELPING your team. How hard is that to understand? Gear for your ability, and for the activity you’re doing.

Right, and in zerker if you dodge the big lethal attacks and then carry on wailing on the boss you’re helping your team as much as possible by doing the maximum damage possible.

Everyone is limited to two dodges at a time with a decent sized “cooldown.” What happens when you need a third? You don’t need to take a “big lethal attack” to die in zerker gear. Attacks that would impact someone wearing Knights by barely a pittance will half-kill a zerker.

Blurred Frenzy, aegis, Endure Pain, Renewed Focus to name a few. If you’re an idiot enough to waste your dodges, there are invulnerabilities available. Truth is, bosses have such slow and clearly choreographed attacks that they’re easy to avoid.

stof.9341:

Yaki.9563:

Min/maxers greatly exaggerate the effect of an individual’s gear. The fact is, and individual is just one person out of 5. If someone joined an all zerk party and did absolutely nothing, the run would take 25% longer. An 8 minute run would take 10 minutes, assuming the entire 8 minutes is spent fighting which is not even close to the case. More time is wasted waiting for people to sell their crap at vendor or arrive at the dungeon than that.

I’d say 30 to 60% longer depending on the specifics of the fight. Remember that one big factor in fights is matching your ability sustain to the encounter duration.. A team of 5 zerk players will survive for a 1 minute boss fight, the same team with 4 will be out of important cooldowns or out of health and regen before they last for the whole 1min 15s caused by the lack of one player.

I don’t think that’s an accurate argument. Also, remember that it is in the most extreme case where the 5th player does nothing. A 5th player who is actually playing will not only contribute some damage but also buffs/heals/rez etc.

AntiGw.9367:

Clumsy.6257:

as much as necessary? really? imagine being at work, your boss sees your just doing enough work to get by, then he has somebody that he knows will work harder than you, your instantly fired and hes hired, its as simple as that, people who do more work will always be preferrred over the lazy slackers

Completely irrelevant analogy.

thats about as relevant as anyone could ever hope to come up with, you just cant come up with a reply because you realized i was right

Zerker gear is the single best gear for this game’s pve. This is not the opinion of a random kitten elitist. It’s reality. And the reason why that is as it is, is because of this game’s pve design.

This is a game where there’s few mechanics that support team playing, where there’s mechanics that completely destroy control builds and where there’s mechanics that cap condition damage.

This is a game where offensive stats scale better than defensive stats. Power x Precision x Critical Damage are three stats that improve each other. In comparison, Toughness x Healing or Condition Damage x Condition Duration only make a pair.

And finally, every encounter was designed to be beatable by every single build, and where active defenses are much better than passive defenses. And when every single build can beat everything, what build will people pick? The fastest ones. And which ones are the fastest? The damage builds. And out of the damage builds, which ones scale better and have no restrictions? The zerker builds.

If party support was more relevant, more people would bring boon duration and healing power. If control was relevant at all, more people would bring condition duration. If conditions were relevant, more people would bring condition stats. If there existed aggro mechanics for tanking, more people would pick defensive stats. If there were as many restrictions to criticals as they are to control/ conditions, less people would pick zerker builds.

Different stats for different roles. If roles are optional, only the fastest roles will matter.

Clumsy.6257:

Hickeroar.9734:

colesy.8490:

AntiGw.9367:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

It’s not my stats that are helping the team. It’s ME in the team.

If a team is not happy with having ME in it, with whatever stats, it’s a selfish team.

Your stats are helping the team because in the case of the zerker it’s increasing their damage output, whereas without any gear, or bad gear you would be doing a lot less damage.

A team wanting you to pull your weight is not selfish, wanting everyone in zerker is actually to make things smoother and faster for everyone involved.

What happens when the zerker dies when they wouldn’t have if they wore something like Knights? You end up with one of these:

1) One less person finishing the content, which lowers the damage output by up to 1/5 or more.
2) Two less people finishing the content because one person is rezzing another. Damage output decreased by 2/5.
3) Everyone dies because of domino effect caused either by rezzing, or inability to handle the content when down by a person.

Except in rare cases, I’d rather take an extra 30-60 seconds on the content and not have people die, which may cause the content to not be achieved at all….or at the very least will still make it take longer than normal. Your logic is deeply flawed by assuming that every player is perfectly skilled and incapable of dying.

his logic isnt flawed at all, your is, your assuming that most zerkers will go down, most will rarely ever go down, instead in my extensive dungeon experience, its the people using ptv, sentinels, clerics, and knights that go down the most because they’re used to having a giant handicap, then they decide to do content thats harder than open world pve and all the sudden they keep getting killed in 1 hit because they never learned to dodge

I’ve watched full zerkers fall time and time and time again.

Even in an experienced CoF speed run, you WILL have a couple players go down almost every run, and once they’re down, they usually die.

The vast majority of GW2 players are simply not skilled enough to run full zerker. As I said…if you can run it and NOT die….more power to ya. If you can’t, which most people can’t, then don’t.

This attitude is completely elitist, and doesn’t apply to the masses. You wanna run full zerker with your “hardcore” group…go for it. Just don’t expect that everyone will be able to. I run full zerker on some of my toons, and tank gear on others. You gear for what you want to accomplish, and what you can handle. Disagreeing with that is just…juvenile and ignorant.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Zerker gear is the single best gear for this game’s pve. This is not the opinion of a random kitten elitist. It’s reality. And the reason why that is as it is, is because of this game’s pve design.

You apparently don’t understand the definition of the word “opinion,” because what you’re expressing is PRECISELY an opinion.