Guild Wars 2

Dog.1472:

The longer a fight lasts, the more damage everyone takes, the more chances people will go down.

This reasoning is flat out incorrect unless you are saying that there is no healing at all. Sure, you take more damage, but you get more healing as well. If you can outheal the damage intake you can keep the fight going forever. In addition, theoretically it’s entirely possible that a fight could fail without healing but succeed with it because of the damage output. Of course, that theoretical situation doesn’t happen in GW2 because the devs design encounters around berserker gear with no healing and no condition removal.

Zeppelin.6832:

The simple matter is… even if the run only takes “5 more minutes” that’s not the point. The point is your chance of wiping has greatly increased because the fights simply last longer. When all things are equal, yeah the times maybe aren’t that different… but your potential to not finish a run due to badness grows by a lot.

Only true if the person brings nothing useful to the table at all. Like someone in MF gear.

Sleel.8365:

colesy.8490:

Sleel.8365:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

Yeah, cause not being glass and going down all the time is so not helping anything. Pretty tired of picking up zerkers off the ground all the time cause they can’t deal with a fart wafting in their direction.

Two things to point out :

1. It’s actually quite easy to survive full glass, you’re overestimating how much an effect no toughness/vit has.

2. Zerkers will normally drop when they go in to unoptimised groups. It’s what happens when I try to melee a boss in a pug and everyone’s decided to camp at range.

It’sactually quite funny how often I’ve been the last one alive in a group even when they’re running “tank” gear, and simply by dodging I was able to sit there with a full health bar the whole time doing just fine.

Not by how often I pick their dead kitten up of the ground, I’m not overestimating anything.

Do you ask the players laying on the ground what gear they are running? Or is it just assumption based? Especially in zerg fests that have become the modus operandi, some people simply don’t have the top notch computers needed to get a consistent framerate which leaves them vulnerable to getting downed, especially if they are in melee range. I am in this category, if I am running a dungeon or there are not tons of other players around I have zero issues in whatever gear I wear, but in these zergs in melee range even with ptv gear that I wear precisely because of the low frame rates to give me a chance I still get downed at times.

CrossedHorse.4261:

So, this thread has taught me a lot … about how there are snobs on both sides of the argument.

This has always been true.

The only point I sort of get irked about with either side is how serious people take a game. I can understand people only have so much time to play so they want to get what they can get done in less time so they can accomplish more overall, so long as they don’t forget to keep things fun.

If you find a particular aspect of the game to get frustrating or boring, first take a look at how you play the game. Is it frustrating because it is generally only that or is it frustrating because it goes against how you’re grinding the content? Is it boring because there is no room for fun or is it because you’ve limited your own gameplay to a specific goal/style and refuse to expand your possibilities?

Not everyone has a fast connection. My time in the game is filled with frequent stalls during fights where skills cycle without going off for 5 to 10 seconds at a time and no one is moving on the screen. I use Knights armor because it helps keep me alive. These people who call other players bad or lazy because they don’t use Zerkers gear have no idea what is going on. Also, not everyone has fast twitch reflexes or even 20/20 eyesight to easily see the tells in the midst of particle effects. Those also will make Zerker gear a poor choice.

Some people are very judgmental and they don’t have all the facts. They just think they do. Math is NOT the answer for every question.

Sleel.8365:

Mickey.4207:

Sleel.8365:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sleel.8365:

colesy.8490:

If you are using gear that buffs your own stats without helping the team (toughness and vitality as examples) then you are being selfish. How hard is that to understand?

Yeah, cause not being glass and going down all the time is so not helping anything. Pretty tired of picking up zerkers off the ground all the time cause they can’t deal with a fart wafting in their direction.

Wouldn’t be as bad if they could time their dodges well enough. Of course, in open PvE a lot of people don’t bother to pack extra evasion skills, and just autoattack and stop paying attention. (I love using those people for Daily Reviver on the Queensdale troll.)

Yeah. I watch for those players. Easy to spot. I don’t rez them. Even when the fight is over.

I am sure all of these players must cry themselves to sleep because you didn’t revive them.

Considering the QQing you hear from them in chat when no one rezes them before the chest disappears…. yup

You are probably the coolest guy in have ever come across in my life. Do you have a blog or twitter i can follow?

Astral Projections.7320:

Not everyone has a fast connection. My time in the game is filled with frequent stalls during fights where skills cycle without going off for 5 to 10 seconds at a time and no one is moving on the screen. I use Knights armor because it helps keep me alive. These people who call other players bad or lazy because they don’t use Zerkers gear have no idea what is going on. Also, not everyone has fast twitch reflexes or even 20/20 eyesight to easily see the tells in the midst of particle effects. Those also will make Zerker gear a poor choice.

Some people are very judgmental and they don’t have all the facts. They just think they do. Math is NOT the answer for every question.

No offense but those people by definition are worse at the game, thus making them “bad” (I really hate that word)

Weather your limitation technology, physical or whatever what you are saying is that person x has a limitation that makes it so they cannot play as well as player y and so wears suboptimal gear to supplement for that handicap.

There is nothing wrong with that and personally I feel no one should be put down for that. But if you play ball on a local softball team level the MLB is not going to want you on their professional teams. It doesn’t matter why you cant play at that level just that you cant. This is why those players that want to play with only the best exclude those that cant cut it.

But look around man. There are people in this very thread saying that knight’s gear or whatever you want to wear is fine. Just know that the more DPS you can do while staying alive the better and more optimized you will be in this game. Strive to do that and you are golden.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Star Ace.5207:

Such an ill-placed comment was stated elsewhere on the forums. That was my fear about ANet appeasing the anti-MF gear crowd-that what they were really opposing wasn’t just MF users being “selfish”, but that only “meta” gear/builds were used, so their speedruns wouldn’t be hampered (did they even stop to think that not everyone even participates on speedruns, and that such a thing doesn’t mean they are “baddies”?)

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

This is not a troll post, but I am actually disgusted at this, because the “logic” of these individuals is that anything that isn’t what they like is not allowed on their runs. So the solution HAS always been: party with the people that think like you do. MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided. And it was viable just because of that reason. Players who bought the gear weren’t “leeches” out to cheat your group. They just got what the game made available to them. If you don’t like certain gear on people, don’t play with them, and find your own groups, period-stop claiming that the use of certain gear is players being selfish, because you have NO RIGHT to judge someone’s character becaUse they won’t use what you would like them to use.

EVERY STAT COMBO IS VIABLE, AND MADE OFFICIALLY AVAILABLE BY ANET. RESPECT EVERYONE’S RIGHT TO USE WHAT’S MADE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYBODY, NOT JUST WHAT’S POPULAR AND SUPPOSED TO BE “EFFECTIVE” AND THE “RIGHT WAY” TO PLAY GW2.

Berserker’s gear is a fine way to play-and so is everything else in the game.

IF you believe what you just said, then you wouldn’t be ‘fine’ with MF gear removal as it was a viable build option also.

Except it wasn’t and Anet said as much.

Lokki.1092:

Astral Projections.7320:

Not everyone has a fast connection. My time in the game is filled with frequent stalls during fights where skills cycle without going off for 5 to 10 seconds at a time and no one is moving on the screen. I use Knights armor because it helps keep me alive. These people who call other players bad or lazy because they don’t use Zerkers gear have no idea what is going on. Also, not everyone has fast twitch reflexes or even 20/20 eyesight to easily see the tells in the midst of particle effects. Those also will make Zerker gear a poor choice.

Some people are very judgmental and they don’t have all the facts. They just think they do. Math is NOT the answer for every question.

No offense but those people by definition are worse at the game, thus making them “bad” (I really hate that word)

Weather your limitation technology, physical or whatever what you are saying is that person x has a limitation that makes it so they cannot play as well as player y and so wears suboptimal gear to supplement for that handicap.

There is nothing wrong with that and personally I feel no one should be put down for that. But if you play ball on a local softball team level the MLB is not going to want you on their professional teams. It doesn’t matter why you cant play at that level just that you cant. This is why those players that want to play with only the best exclude those that cant cut it.

But look around man. There are people in this very thread saying that knight’s gear or whatever you want to wear is fine. Just know that the more DPS you can do while staying alive the better and more optimized you will be in this game. Strive to do that and you are golden.

And then you have these people on the forum throwing around judgmental words like “selfish”, “lazy”, “bad”. They are referring not only to people who are trying to do speed clears with them but also to people who are not. They have dogmatically said in this thread that ALL people should wear full berserkers. And I say they are ignorant of the facts. That you can’t run a math formula and apply the results to all people. Someone who makes a claim of this nature is not only ignorant about the differences between people and situations, they also are showing a rigid, intolerant personality.

As to dungeons I am well aware of my limitations and would never do one except with friends and guildies. Most people who are arguing about this also don’t do speed clears and only play with guildies. For a total stranger, ignorant about the facts of the situation to say they must wear only berserkers or they are “lazy”, “selfish”, and “bad” is extremely arrogant.

Oh, well I guess I’m arrogant then. Not like I’ve never heard that before or anything.

I’d have thought being called bad would give people an incentive to improve and “get back” at us “elitists”, but I guess all it does is make them QQ.

People can’t stand that there are people better than them. It’s entitlement gone mental.

Kalarchis.8635:

So I’m running around the Queen’s Pavillion with the zerg last night. I play a staff ele specced for defense, mainly healing. Another staff ele is playing near me; we’re killing the destroyer boss. Occasionally he’ll say “Healing on me!” People immediately group on him, he hits water, drops his healing fields and pops them. A bunch of players say thank you.

This happens a bunch of times through the night. He’s working midline, while I tend to work frontline. Players are just soaking up the Water Blast’s; it’s clear that our healing is beneficial and appreciated. It’s times like this that make it so satisfying to play support.

When I took my tanky warrior through the same content, I was thankful for my defenses. They kept me alive so I could revive all of my zerker friends who kept getting 1-shot. It’s so much fun when we all work together.

Now can we stop arguing about this nonsense?

Now try doing that in a level 48 fotm where everything 1 shots you. That healing field is useless.

colesy.8490:

Oh, well I guess I’m arrogant then. Not like I’ve never heard that before or anything.

I’d have thought being called bad would give people an incentive to improve and “get back” at us “elitists”, but I guess all it does is make them QQ.

Something about calling other people lazy, selfish and bad does not make those people want to listen to you. Don’t be surprised then if they don’t form a good impression of you.

Taking this Zerker armor only argument to its logical conclusion. If people did do what these elite, highly skilled and knowledgeable people demand and only wore berserker armor then the next thing they would demand is for everyone to play only the one profession that they have determined does the most damage. For logically, anyone who uses a profession that doesn’t do max damage is clearly in the wrong and should delete and reroll. After all, isn’t this what they are saying? That dps is the ONLY consideration and if you aren’t doing max dps then you are not playing right.

This is exactly the same argument but taken to its logical end point. Only one profession with all berserker and the same traits because mathematically, it’s the best.

Astral Projections.7320:

Taking this Zerker armor only argument to its logical conclusion. If people did do what these elite, highly skilled and knowledgeable people demand and only wore berserker armor then the next thing they would demand is for everyone to play only the one profession that they have determined does the most damage. For logically, anyone who uses a profession that doesn’t do max damage is clearly in the wrong and should delete and reroll. After all, isn’t this what they are saying? That dps is the ONLY consideration and if you aren’t doing max dps then you are not playing right.

This is exactly the same argument but taken to its logical end point. Only one profession with all berserker and the same traits because mathematically, it’s the best.

What are you trying to do!!!? make sense with them!? get out before someone burst a brain vein or something!

Wrong. Pretty much every single profession built for DPS has been proven to be strong in dungeons minus necros, and that’s not because of poor DPS but lack of group utility.

For example, you can run a group with a mesmer, warrior, ranger, thief and elementalist and do fine. The reason warriors are popular is strong DPS mixed with being a forgiving class so it offers more room for error than an LH ele which is basically slip up once then insta-killed. And it’s not like compositions like this are ineffective, thieves have the highest burst in the game but they need other classes to help them with might, fury, crit damage and utility such as mesmer/guard reflects (kitten I love using feedback on cliffside fractal).

Yaki.9563:

Dog.1472:

The longer a fight lasts, the more damage everyone takes, the more chances people will go down.

This reasoning is flat out incorrect unless you are saying that there is no healing at all. Sure, you take more damage, but you get more healing as well. If you can outheal the damage intake you can keep the fight going forever. In addition, theoretically it’s entirely possible that a fight could fail without healing but succeed with it because of the damage output. Of course, that theoretical situation doesn’t happen in GW2 because the devs design encounters around berserker gear with no healing and no condition removal.

That’s not how it works. That berserker spec has a heal. Depending on group composition, there might be one or more group heals in the party. Nothing stops the berserker from having condition removal. There are fights where it would be silly to be without it. Berserkers have dodge, they most likely have access to a short term invulnerability, they have enough of the tools a soldier or cleric’s build does. Their heal may not heal for quite as much as a cleric’s, but it heals as much as the soldier’s does.

A berserker player with the proper buffs is getting 2-2.5x the damage of a Soldier build — and that’s assuming the soldier player is partaking of group buffs. If s/he’s at max range, the difference is even higher. Cleric’s builds will do even less damage.

The tools that all builds have for damage mitigation are short-term. All have cooldowns. Sure, in some fights, healing can keep up with the damage output of the AI. In some, it just can’t. So, when the heal is on CD and the mitigation skills s are all on cool, some parties struggle. Sometimes they wipe. Sometimes they succeed after an epic struggle. Meanwhile, the optimized party is on the way to the next boss.

Astral Projections.7320:

Taking this Zerker armor only argument to its logical conclusion. If people did do what these elite, highly skilled and knowledgeable people demand and only wore berserker armor then the next thing they would demand is for everyone to play only the one profession that they have determined does the most damage. For logically, anyone who uses a profession that doesn’t do max damage is clearly in the wrong and should delete and reroll. After all, isn’t this what they are saying? That dps is the ONLY consideration and if you aren’t doing max dps then you are not playing right.

This is exactly the same argument but taken to its logical end point. Only one profession with all berserker and the same traits because mathematically, it’s the best.

Don’t you know about the 4 berserker warrior + 1 teams?

We are already there.

I should inform you that us “elite, highly skilled and knowledgeable people” do not like that berserker is the most optimal way to do content. It makes for very state builds and game play. But we recognize that there are only 3 reasons to not wear it.

1. You cannot (for whatever reason) do the content with berserker and need the cushion of defensive stats
2. You don’t know or understand that berserker is simply the most optimal gear.
3. You don’t care that it is optimal, you (for whatever reason) simply want to wear something else.

Thus we inform the number 2 crowd, and give tips to the number 1 crowd on how to get more DPS out of their builds.

Its so funny how everyone who wears zerk thinks that being elitist means they are elite and consider themself good players lol

Funny note, majority of them are part of the bad players who THINK they are good using zerk.

Consider youself good at zerk gear? go solo Lupi… can’t do it? then go get something else dude. If you exceed at dodging, you can solo him like some others did

Lokki.1092:

Astral Projections.7320:

Taking this Zerker armor only argument to its logical conclusion. If people did do what these elite, highly skilled and knowledgeable people demand and only wore berserker armor then the next thing they would demand is for everyone to play only the one profession that they have determined does the most damage. For logically, anyone who uses a profession that doesn’t do max damage is clearly in the wrong and should delete and reroll. After all, isn’t this what they are saying? That dps is the ONLY consideration and if you aren’t doing max dps then you are not playing right.

This is exactly the same argument but taken to its logical end point. Only one profession with all berserker and the same traits because mathematically, it’s the best.

Don’t you know about the 4 berserker warrior + 1 teams?

We are already there.

I should inform you that us “elite, highly skilled and knowledgeable people” do not like that berserker is the most optimal way to do content. It makes for very state builds and game play. But we recognize that there are only 3 reasons to not wear it.

1. You cannot (for whatever reason) do the content with berserker and need the cushion of defensive stats
2. You don’t know or understand that berserker is simply the most optimal gear.
3. You don’t care that it is optimal, you (for whatever reason) simply want to wear something else.

Thus we inform the number 2 crowd, and give tips to the number 1 crowd on how to get more DPS out of their builds.

Well then you need to make a thread saying only that set of professions, the berserker warrior and the other profession, should be the only professions played. At a 4 to 1 ratio. After all, mathematically that is the correct choice so all should bow down and delete and reroll.

Astral Projections.7320:

Well then you need to make a thread saying only that set of professions, the berserker warrior and the other profession, should be the only professions played. At a 4 to 1 ratio. After all, mathematically that is the correct choice so all should bow down and delete and reroll.

You are projecting, we didn’t make the game this way or ask for this. But we have done this content over and over again and crunched numbers and more and it is evident that berserker is the most optimal gear for any player that can successfully use it.

The reason for the 4 warrior groups is because they have the lowest skill ceiling with berserker and are the most forgiving while wearing it. In other words they take the least skill to be good in full berserker.

By the way. I don’t even have a warrior. knowing the information doesn’t mean you have to be all berserker warrior all the time.

Lokki.1092:

Astral Projections.7320:

Well then you need to make a thread saying only that set of professions, the berserker warrior and the other profession, should be the only professions played. At a 4 to 1 ratio. After all, mathematically that is the correct choice so all should bow down and delete and reroll.

You are projecting, we didn’t make the game this way or ask for this. But we have done this content over and over again and crunched numbers and more and it is evident that berserker is the most optimal gear for any player that can successfully use it.

The reason for the 4 warrior groups is because they have the lowest skill ceiling with berserker and are the most forgiving while wearing it. In other words they take the least skill to be good in full berserker.

By the way. I don’t even have a warrior. knowing the information doesn’t mean you have to be all berserker warrior all the time.

What someone else does in the privacy of a dungeon with 4 other consenting adults is none of my business. What I do object to is someone who comes on the forum and makes negative, value laden comments about other people, who they don’t even play with. Telling other people that they MUST wear a specific set of armor or these people are selfish, lazy or bad when the people who say this don’t have the knowledge that god gave a grasshopper about mitigating circumstances in other peoples lives. They trot out some math and wave it around and claim that this applies to all people. And this is complete nonsense. I’m sure they are correct, that in optimal circumstances the berserker gear is the best. But the average person is average and what is optimal for the elite is not necessarily optimal for them. To come on the forum and call others lazy, selfish and bad because they don’t play or wear the same armor as what they say others must have, when they are ignorant of other people’s lives and circumstances is arrogance.

Some of it is that whatever is in fashion as best will attract people no matter if it actually IS optimal for all fights because, simply, people want to be associated with that halo of implied success.

Mesket.5728:

Its so funny how everyone who wears zerk thinks that being elitist means they are elite and consider themself good players lol

Funny note, majority of them are part of the bad players who THINK they are good using zerk.

Consider youself good at zerk gear? go solo Lupi… can’t do it? then go get something else dude. If you exceed at dodging, you can solo him like some others did

Which dungeon/fractal/high-end encounter favors something else than berserker? Liadri?

Mesket.5728:

Its so funny how everyone who wears zerk thinks that being elitist means they are elite and consider themself good players lol

Funny note, majority of them are part of the bad players who THINK they are good using zerk.

Consider youself good at zerk gear? go solo Lupi… can’t do it? then go get something else dude. If you exceed at dodging, you can solo him like some others did

Please, how do I get better?

Kirschwasser.3972:

I actually enjoy this game TONS more when I’m not on the forums. When I read the forums, people bring up things that make me frown.

I feel this way too. Unfortunately, I also feel compelled to contribute some levelheadedness around here. That and snark.

If there is such thread for so long, perhaps it is time to bring support roles into play?

Remember when game released? There wont be holy trinity, but there will be support/control roles.

They should definitely do more to make support/control roles viable. That I agree with 100%.

Vayne.8563:

They should definitely do more to make support/control roles viable. That I agree with 100%.

I agree. There doesn’t need to be a “Trinity” per se, but more love for support classes would broaden the game significantly Imo.

sorry, but it is being selfish…..until Anet fixes pve.

Vayne.8563:

They should definitely do more to make support/control roles viable. That I agree with 100%.

You can give your team plenty of support and control elements.

On my Mesmer I get to focus pull mobs, double might stacks via signet, give regeneration via phantasms, reflect projectiles, give group quickness and daze/stun two mobs if I need to control.

It just so happens that I can do this in full berserker.

I’m wondering if “zerk” here is just using all berzeker gear or is it using all berzerker gear plus traiting a character for simple zerky dps as well. (dont mind so much the former). Im just curious, sorry, because listening to pro zerkers sometimes makes it sound as if anyone not even remotely braindead should be able to go thru any pve content with zerkers; a statement i find quite false, distasteful and arrogant in fact.

Vayne.8563:

They should definitely do more to make support/control roles viable. That I agree with 100%.

supports this :p for me im hoping also to see encounters where dps alone cannot solve things, or even better, if simply too much dps-ing can be detrimental to the success. I love mechanics that requires coordination, non direct application of dmg, because it seems a more creative way of getting things done.

generalraccoon.3857:

I’m wondering if “zerk” here is just using all berzeker gear or is it using all berzerker gear plus traiting a character for simple zerky dps as well. (dont mind so much the former). Im just curious, sorry, because listening to pro zerkers sometimes makes it sound as if anyone not even remotely braindead should be able to go thru any pve content with zerkers; a statement i find quite false, distasteful and arrogant in fact.

Generally it’s just berserker gear.

My main dungeon/PvE character is a guardian, and while I’m always in full berserker gear, I’m rarely in a “berserker spec” Utilities generally don’t do very much damage, if they do damage at all. Those ones designed for DPS generally are negative damage in fact. Being that if you stop to cast one, you are dealing less damage than if you just auto attacked instead. However they are very good for a few things. Giving you the immunity or defensive boost you need to survive be it stun break, condition removal, vigor, stability, or reflect. with things like sigils of energy on top of that a full berserker can maximize their damage while being extremely survivable at the same time.

This is key to top tier content like 40+ fractals. Where it is easy to be killed because you cant move, got stunned or any other type of situation where a simple utility could have saved you. The basic Idea is that if you go down in the fight your damage output takes a significant hit, and no utility can replace that damage you would have done, however it can easily save you so you don’t go down in the first place.

This isn’t to say that you must have defensive utility as a berserker to be good. But when it comes down to top tier content and the most sought after support ability (reflect) it’s easy to see why berserker is desired. When I’m running my full reflect/stability setup for my allies (supporting them) I’m still in full berserker gear because I’m still a DPSer and wearing non berserker gear does not increase my ability to reflect and or give out boons.

Ask yourself one question. Do you fear the boss who one shots you or the boss who sits there and absorbs like 50% more damage? And I’m not asking the speedclear community because I already know the answer to that (HotW sucks).

Caramel Ham.4891:

sorry, but it is being selfish…..until Anet fixes pve.

It isn’t, and it is selfish and self-important of you to even suggest it is.

I never knew using stats that buff yourself and don’t help your team weren’t selfish.

This community teaches me very interesting things.

colesy.8490:

I never knew using stats that buff yourself and don’t help your team weren’t selfish.

This community teaches me very interesting things.

Sorry, invalid argument, and not funny. You know why, so let’s leave it at that.

colesy.8490:

I never knew using stats that buff yourself and don’t help your team weren’t selfish.

This community teaches me very interesting things.

Honestly it just comes down to playing with like-minded people.

You could sacrifice all your defensive gear for zerker gear and just be bad at dodging. At this point you would be better alive and doing poor damage than being dead and doing no damage.

But more importantly, you are better suited for a group at your skill level where everyone sucks at dodging, lol.

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

Some of it is that whatever is in fashion as best will attract people no matter if it actually IS optimal for all fights because, simply, people want to be associated with that halo of implied success.

Mesket.5728:

Its so funny how everyone who wears zerk thinks that being elitist means they are elite and consider themself good players lol

Funny note, majority of them are part of the bad players who THINK they are good using zerk.

Consider youself good at zerk gear? go solo Lupi… can’t do it? then go get something else dude. If you exceed at dodging, you can solo him like some others did

Indeed… so many “zerkers” feeling special when they are actually zpezial (get the difference?). Funny how they flag themselves with some replies.

If you know you are good enough to play full zerk, then you know its not easy and you know its obviously not for everyone. If you think its easy and everyone should do it… then you are probably just halfway there and die very often… (you don’t need to lie us, you know how many times did you get downed in July? For a full trained character, anything bigger than 1-2 times its baaad news for you)

Why is there so much hate on the forums?

To preface, I run various dungeons on my phantasm-based mesmer with various groups. Some are with guildies new to dungeons and others are with skilled semi-organized groups for FotM/Arah. I’ve been actually running daily FotM 48s and 38s with a group of 2 guards, 1 war, 1 mes (me!) and a random PUG.

Anyways.

I carry around 2 sets of armor. Berserker’s gear with with scholar runes and PVT gear with Melandru runes (my WvW set). When I run with an organized group, I always run my berserker set because it undoubtedly contributes the most to the party, especially in higher level fractals (better kill the boss before he kills you!). That being said, when I PUG FotM 48s, I actually tend to put on my PVT armor in harder encounters like the grawl shaman. If the PUG does not have a competent guardian, I will always put this set on. The reason I do this is not because I’m selfish, but it’s because I actually use it to anchor the team. In my experience (50+ FotM 48s) PUGs will almost always have at least 1 person die during or before the elemental/shield phase. With zerker gear, I can probably revive one or two allies without much consequence. However, if the whole team wipes except me, I find it really hard to revive while staying alive with zerker gear. with PVT I can revive and stay alive with minimal problems (can tank an arrow or 2). Once I get more experience, I can probably move on to zerker gear while fulfilling this anchor role in PUGs. I’ve seen another mesmer accomplish this.

TL;DR – Carrying around 2 sets of gear might be useful, especially in PUGs. Zerker and PVT sets serve different purposes and could both be useful. With enough experience, zerkers will out-perform PVT, especially in a class that has various damage negating skills in addition to utilities that do not scale with healing/tough/vit/cond… etc.

EDIT: this is also my first post ever on the forums, so please don’t kill me.

pullnointer.1476:

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

aggro tends to concentrate on berserker players in pvt teams because they are the only ones dealing damage, this does not happen in full zerk teams though. also I’ll take someone downing every once in a while over you autoattacking at range with pvt gear

Right, because anyone not wearing berserker gear is automatically in PVT gear, doing auto-attack at range only.

I’m playing in Berserker gear as well, but I don’t see players wearing… PVT, or any other combination other than MF as inferior to me. Just because you wear Berserker gear doesn’t mean you’re anything special, great or being above players who choose not to.

Milennin.4825:

pullnointer.1476:

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

aggro tends to concentrate on berserker players in pvt teams because they are the only ones dealing damage, this does not happen in full zerk teams though. also I’ll take someone downing every once in a while over you autoattacking at range with pvt gear

Right, because anyone not wearing berserker gear is automatically in PVT gear, doing auto-attack at range only.

I’m playing in Berserker gear as well, but I don’t see players wearing… PVT, or any other combination other than MF as inferior to me. Just because you wear Berserker gear doesn’t mean you’re anything special, great or being above players who choose not to.

Besides what’s said… Toughness builds draws much more aggro than bersekers… proximity + toughess + shield > damage for aggro… while you kiss the floor every now and then rolling whoever fills the said stats gets more aggro.

the amount of damage you do can draw aggro too, I always got aggro on slavedriver when doing cof runs with people without full zerker

If you check the wiki, I think damage dealt and proximity are of a higher importance than toughness. I too noticed when using a zerker guard in COF runs a while back that I’d eat the slave driver’s aggro.

I’m playing in Berserker gear as well, but I don’t see players wearing… PVT, or any other combination other than MF as inferior to me. Just because you wear Berserker gear doesn’t mean you’re anything special, great or being above players who choose not to.

We never claimed they’re inferior, I just said they’re bad and selfish players because they’re using gear that isn’t contributing as much to a dungeon run as zerk [selfish] and increasing their own defensive stats because they need it as a crutch despite all of the content in the game being easy [bad].

That being said, when I PUG FotM 48s, I actually tend to put on my PVT armor in harder encounters like the grawl shaman. If the PUG does not have a competent guardian, I will always put this set on. The reason I do this is not because I’m selfish, but it’s because I actually use it to anchor the team. In my experience (50+ FotM 48s) PUGs will almost always have at least 1 person die during or before the elemental/shield phase. With zerker gear, I can probably revive one or two allies without much consequence. However, if the whole team wipes except me, I find it really hard to revive while staying alive with zerker gear. with PVT I can revive and stay alive with minimal problems (can tank an arrow or 2). Once I get more experience, I can probably move on to zerker gear while fulfilling this anchor role in PUGs. I’ve seen another mesmer accomplish this.

Firstly, why are you being an anchor as a mesmer? It’s like when I do a dungeon and I’m the group’s DPS, I’m sorry but my DPS despite being full glass is atrocious, I’m not appropriate for this role because mesmers have bad damage.

Secondly, why would you put on PVT so you can tank an arrow hit? You have two dodges, use them.

AntiGw.9367:

Yaki.9563:

The difference between MF gear and sub-optimal non-zerker gear is intent:

A person wearing MF intends to screw over the party so that they can gain gold.

A person wearing sub-optimal gear is just trying to have fun playing their build, or maybe just haven’t gotten the gear yet.

The first is intolerable. The second I can deal with.

This is an RPG game. It’s perfectly fine to make a treasure hunter character.

You telling other people what is fine and what isn’t, on the other hand…

Don’t give RPers a bad name. RPing a treasure hunter is fun and exciting but most people know how to RP their character separately from gameplay stats. Just because their character wants to get gold at all cost doesn’t mean the player does.

Honestly, I’m as casual/play as you want and at your own pace as they come. I like Stakitten as an elementalist and want to survive as a guardian/ use Knight gear. However, MF is a stupid stat. It takes stats away from the group so you can up your MF. It hurts to group so you get more loot. That’s just wrong any way you look at it.

colesy.8490:

We never claimed they’re inferior, I just said they’re bad and selfish players because they’re using gear that isn’t contributing as much to a dungeon run as zerk [selfish] and increasing their own defensive stats because they need it as a crutch despite all of the content in the game being easy [bad].

What if, maybe, they aren’t skilled enough to go with full Berserker gear and keep themselves alive? I’d rather have a player who lacks the skill to survive in glass-cannon gear to go in defensive gear and play a more defensive role than for them to stick to glass-cannon gear and go downed in every fight.

Milennin.4825:

colesy.8490:

We never claimed they’re inferior, I just said they’re bad and selfish players because they’re using gear that isn’t contributing as much to a dungeon run as zerk [selfish] and increasing their own defensive stats because they need it as a crutch despite all of the content in the game being easy [bad].

What if, maybe, they aren’t skilled enough to go with full Berserker gear and keep themselves alive? I’d rather have a player who lacks the skill to survive in glass-cannon gear to go in defensive gear and play a more defensive role than for them to stick to glass-cannon gear and go downed in every fight.

If someone lacks the skill to do gw2 dungeons they should just quit playing. This game’s PvE has the lowest skill cap of any MMO’s PvE on the market. If you can’t look at a mob’s animation and dodge I question how you operate a motor vehicle or prepare dinner without burning your house down.

It barely takes any skill to survive in glass gear. Literally all you have to do is dodge the big, lethal attacks.

If these people who were worried about not being able to survive took the time (like, 5 minutes) to learn the dungeon encounters and would actually use their dodge button, they could quite easily use full glass.

Blix.8021:

If someone lacks the skill to do gw2 dungeons they should just quit playing. This game’s PvE has the lowest skill cap of any MMO’s PvE on the market. If you can’t look at a mob’s animation and dodge I question how you operate a motor vehicle or prepare dinner without burning your house down.

So, they should quit playing because they would slow down your dungeon run by a few minutes? That’s a pretty selfish attitude.
Also, I don’t know which MMOs you have played, but the few others I’ve played were way, way easier than Guild Wars 2.

colesy.8490:

Vayne.8563:

They should definitely do more to make support/control roles viable. That I agree with 100%.

You can give your team plenty of support and control elements.

On my Mesmer I get to focus pull mobs, double might stacks via signet, give regeneration via phantasms, reflect projectiles, give group quickness and daze/stun two mobs if I need to control.

It just so happens that I can do this in full berserker.

Hah, but your phantasms pop at a mouse fart and your regen is crap! Goes partially to waste when someone with decent healing power props everyone up with a bit of regen and illusion of defense but might get messed by a zerker mesmer attempting to do the same.

@Lokki.1092 —thanks for clarifying

Anyhow…NO, it does take some skill and of course reflex to dodge certain attacks, not all attacks have long tell tale signs that makes it so easy to notice and dodge, but more importantly not everyone can have the same skill and reflexes. I want to be civil abt a lot of things, but really, can we stop the ASSUMPTION everyone is able to play at the same level of skill and reflex? some say “play with all zerks and we survive easy and always win etc” while others will say “zerks in my party always die”; this shud be indicative enough that people are very different in gameplay.

And saying just because one is not skilled as you to stop playing is just not right. I don’t really care what gear ppl wear, but i do worry this trend of " do things like we do or else .." spreads to a point where it just kills the game for variety and generally average ppl, or where not following the crowd style brings a kind of stigma in a player.