Guild Wars 2

Funny actually, my phantasms survive just fine. In fact, at Subject Alpha they’re probably more survivable than our actual party because they barely get hit for some reason.

And healing power is complete trash, even people who use it admit that it scales poorly.

Milennin.4825:

Blix.8021:

If someone lacks the skill to do gw2 dungeons they should just quit playing. This game’s PvE has the lowest skill cap of any MMO’s PvE on the market. If you can’t look at a mob’s animation and dodge I question how you operate a motor vehicle or prepare dinner without burning your house down.

So, they should quit playing because they would slow down your dungeon run by a few minutes? That’s a pretty selfish attitude.
Also, I don’t know which MMOs you have played, but the few others I’ve played were way, way easier than Guild Wars 2.

Being terrible and refusing to improve is more selfish. Also stack in corner > DPS > Dodge is not hard pve content.

colesy.8490:

Funny actually, my phantasms survive just fine. In fact, at Subject Alpha they’re probably more survivable than our actual party because they barely get hit for some reason.

And healing power is complete trash, even people who use it admit that it scales poorly.

alpha doesn’t kill illusions for whatever reason

Blix.8021:

Being terrible and refusing to improve is more selfish. Also stack in corner > DPS > Dodge is not hard pve content.

Why do you assume players who don’t wear Berserker gear are refusing to improve? Even so, what does gear have to do with player skill anyway? What makes a player in Berserker gear better than a player in PVT gear, skillwise?
Last time I played dungeon PUGs, most fights weren’t just ‘stand in corner and DPS’, but yeah…

colesy.8490:

Funny actually, my phantasms survive just fine. In fact, at Subject Alpha they’re probably more survivable than our actual party because they barely get hit for some reason.

And healing power is complete trash, even people who use it admit that it scales poorly.

Scales just fine for my Mesmer.

Milennin.4825:

Blix.8021:

Being terrible and refusing to improve is more selfish. Also stack in corner > DPS > Dodge is not hard pve content.

Why do you assume players who don’t wear Berserker gear are refusing to improve? Even so, what does gear have to do with player skill anyway? What makes a player in Berserker gear better than a player in PVT gear, skillwise?
Last time I played dungeon PUGs, most fights weren’t just ‘stand in corner and DPS’, but yeah…

The only measure of success in this game is the speed at which you do it, because actually completing pve content is guaranteed because of how easy it is. Therefore, zerker gear is a better choice for pve. Therefore, picking something other than zerker is a poor choice. Making good choices about your gear is part of being a good player.

I am really happy with the MF removal because the actual benefit of having MF in this game is very little and sacrificing stats whatever those may be for MF was very inefficient. With this new change I may actually runs a little MF through the new consumable they will offer and hopefully it will stack with current MF boosters.

Leo G.4501:

colesy.8490:

Funny actually, my phantasms survive just fine. In fact, at Subject Alpha they’re probably more survivable than our actual party because they barely get hit for some reason.

And healing power is complete trash, even people who use it admit that it scales poorly.

Scales just fine for my Mesmer.

Not as well as crit damage does.

Not sure why you’d kitten yourself by using healing power anyway, running full glass on mesmer is actually even easier than the heavy classes because of your two distortion sources in addition to the two dodges.

colesy.8490:

Leo G.4501:

colesy.8490:

Funny actually, my phantasms survive just fine. In fact, at Subject Alpha they’re probably more survivable than our actual party because they barely get hit for some reason.

And healing power is complete trash, even people who use it admit that it scales poorly.

Scales just fine for my Mesmer.

Not as well as crit damage does.

Crit damage doesn’t heal allies, silly.

“If you aren’t a warrior in zerkers, need not apply”

The only problem is, Anet marketted this game telling us we could play how we wanted to- and then ended up making a game with harsher expectations on how you gear up/spec/class than even WoW.

Queen’s Gauntlet is just another example- clearly aimed at heavy dps specs and nobody else- why else would it be nothing but OHKO (eliminating any chance for someone focused on healing or survival to have a chance) and even putting it on a short enrage timer.

There’s nothing about this game that is play as you want at all.

Blix.8021:

The only measure of success in this game is the speed at which you do it, because actually completing pve content is guaranteed because of how easy it is. Therefore, zerker gear is a better choice for pve. Therefore, picking something other than zerker is a poor choice. Making good choices about your gear is part of being a good player.

That’s your definition of success. I’d say as long as you’re enjoying playing the game you’re doing good. I’d join a party of terribly skilled players wearing PVT gear that are actually fun to play with over a party with stuck up Berserkers obsessed with maximising efficiency any day of the week.

Milennin.4825:

Blix.8021:

The only measure of success in this game is the speed at which you do it, because actually completing pve content is guaranteed because of how easy it is. Therefore, zerker gear is a better choice for pve. Therefore, picking something other than zerker is a poor choice. Making good choices about your gear is part of being a good player.

That’s your definition of success. I’d say as long as you’re enjoying playing the game you’re doing good. I’d join a party of terribly skilled players wearing PVT gear that are actually fun to play with over a party with stuck up Berserkers obsessed with maximising efficiency any day of the week.

wearing zerk because it’s better and putting “lf zerkers hotw p1” is not “obsessed”

I don’t even ask for gear links, i just sigh to myself when I can tell people are not actual zerk and the run takes longer

Milennin.4825:

Blix.8021:

The only measure of success in this game is the speed at which you do it, because actually completing pve content is guaranteed because of how easy it is. Therefore, zerker gear is a better choice for pve. Therefore, picking something other than zerker is a poor choice. Making good choices about your gear is part of being a good player.

That’s your definition of success. I’d say as long as you’re enjoying playing the game you’re doing good. I’d join a party of terribly skilled players wearing PVT gear that are actually fun to play with over a party with stuck up Berserkers obsessed with maximising efficiency any day of the week.

Zerkers are actually capable of having fun, you know.

colesy.8490:

Zerkers are actually capable of having fun, you know.

Not saying they don’t, I mean that I don’t see the rate at which stuff is killed as a measure for success. That’s just my opinion.

colesy.8490:

Funny actually, my phantasms survive just fine. In fact, at Subject Alpha they’re probably more survivable than our actual party because they barely get hit for some reason.

And healing power is complete trash, even people who use it admit that it scales poorly.

As is your anti-others attitude, but unfortunately it has scaled too well for you.

BTW, your claim that “they are not inferior, just bad and selfish” is one of the most ridiculous and offensive things you have said so far. They should moderate your “thoughts”.

lol, you’ve resorted to emotional arguments now?

Look, I personally feel that the gw2 community, should they actually make the slightest of effort can all wear berserker. It’s an easy game. It’s very easy to learn how to use. I trust that players are intelligent enough to spend two minutes learning what attacks to soak up and which attacks to evade.

And yet my trust is being soiled on because people are constantly making excuses so as to why people “can’t” use berserker gear. If you’re not using it because it makes you feel squishy, you’re just being lazy and not taking the time to learn how to use it (and it doesn’t take long to learn).

colesy.8490:

lol, you’ve resorted to emotional arguments now?

Look, I personally feel that the gw2 community, should they actually make the slightest of effort can all wear berserker. It’s an easy game. It’s very easy to learn how to use. I trust that players are intelligent enough to spend two minutes learning what attacks to soak up and which attacks to evade.

And yet my trust is being soiled on because people are constantly making excuses so as to why people “can’t” use berserker gear. If you’re not using it because it makes you feel squishy, you’re just being lazy and not taking the time to learn how to use it (and it doesn’t take long to learn).

Make a solid argument why should 100% of GW2 players should use Berserker’s that’s not really because otherwise they are inconveniencing you. ANet doesn’t believes it so, nor I doubt any serious Berserker’s gear supporter with a logical mindset.

Sad thing is, Berserker’s gear is fine, but your comments do a strong disservice to your purported cause.

Star Ace.5207:

colesy.8490:

lol, you’ve resorted to emotional arguments now?

Look, I personally feel that the gw2 community, should they actually make the slightest of effort can all wear berserker. It’s an easy game. It’s very easy to learn how to use. I trust that players are intelligent enough to spend two minutes learning what attacks to soak up and which attacks to evade.

And yet my trust is being soiled on because people are constantly making excuses so as to why people “can’t” use berserker gear. If you’re not using it because it makes you feel squishy, you’re just being lazy and not taking the time to learn how to use it (and it doesn’t take long to learn).

Make a solid argument why should 100% of GW2 players should use Berserker’s that’s not really because otherwise they are inconveniencing you. ANet doesn’t believes it so, nor I doubt any serious Berserker’s gear supporter with a logical mindset.

Sad thing is, Berserker’s gear is fine, but your comments do a strong disservice to your purported cause.

You need to do damage to kill the boss; zerker does more damage. Ergo, zerker is better.

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

How they play the game is irrelevant, the best gear is that which contributes the most in a fight, and you contribute to a fight purely with DPS. Support skills work fine as they are without using jank stats like healing power or boon duration (for PVE of course, pvp and wvw is different)

You hit on something here for me, which is that zerks tend to assume as a support ele that I am just hanging in back in water affinity all the time, plinking away at the boss until my heals are up. This couldn’t be further from the truth. An ele, no matter their spec, gear, or role, is simply not doing their full job if they aren’t taking advantage of affinity switching.

Though I suppose I should point out that I do wear DPS gear, but I am specced full support.

Milennin.4825:

pullnointer.1476:

Milennin.4825:

Anything that goes into downed state is selfish, too. Unfortunately, it’s most often the players in Berserker gear who do go down the most…

aggro tends to concentrate on berserker players in pvt teams because they are the only ones dealing damage, this does not happen in full zerk teams though. also I’ll take someone downing every once in a while over you autoattacking at range with pvt gear

Right, because anyone not wearing berserker gear is automatically in PVT gear, doing auto-attack at range only.

I’m playing in Berserker gear as well, but I don’t see players wearing… PVT, or any other combination other than MF as inferior to me. Just because you wear Berserker gear doesn’t mean you’re anything special, great or being above players who choose not to.

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.

Star Ace.5207:

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.

So now you are arguing that the point of entering a dungeon run is to not finish it?

mmm…yeah, good luck with that.

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

I certainly don’t play as the “dps dps dps” people do . While I put some thought to damage output in a build, I always expect mistakes to occur; people will get downed and I hope in some cases i can help bring them up again while being under threat.

But be that as it may,I think we all tend to gravitate to like minded people. So zerker fanatics likely play mostly with zerker fanatics, which through their personal experience shows zerkers have a higher success rate than the rest. Me, after reading such stuff in forums, my phobia towards this kind of streamlined, dare i say elitist, preference means I also stick to running dungeons among guildies, who from leader to most new recruits, are against the zerker philosophy; yes we want to go with the objective of finishing a dungeon but we prefer a slow but safe approach coupled with anyone bringing in whatever they prefer, probably even MF. The few times we do encounter zerker built toons, we tend to keep seeing them flat on the ground. there are those zerkers that pull it off well, but from what i’ve seen so far… they are few and far between.

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I take part of my objective, besides completing the content and having fun, to be “How can Leo finish this dungeon at least 25% different than he did the last half-dozen times?”.

generalraccoon.3857:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

I certainly don’t play as the “dps dps dps” people do . While I put some thought to damage output in a build, I always expect mistakes to occur; people will get downed and I hope in some cases i can help bring them up again while being under threat.

But be that as it may,I think we all tend to gravitate to like minded people. So zerker fanatics likely play mostly with zerker fanatics, which through their personal experience shows zerkers have a higher success rate than the rest. Me, after reading such stuff in forums, my phobia towards this kind of streamlined, dare i say elitist, preference means I also stick to running dungeons among guildies, who from leader to most new recruits, are against the zerker philosophy; yes we want to go with the objective of finishing a dungeon but we prefer a slow but safe approach coupled with anyone bringing in whatever they prefer, probably even MF. The few times we do encounter zerker built toons, we tend to keep seeing them flat on the ground. there are those zerkers that pull it off well, but from what i’ve seen so far… they are few and far between.

Not to be a prick and no offense, but the reason zerker geared players die while running with you guys is exactly because he is running with you guys. The zerker player wont be able to avoid that much dmg when the fight is dragging on forever. This is why I run with two pieces of knights….because all I do is PUG. That is my sweet spot when others in my grp are running less than optimal gear for the content. My warrior also pulls out a long bow (thus dragging out the fight) when I think players in my grp are running something akin to white gear in dmg stats.

The only reason I don’t run full zerker is because I don’t bother asking for “zerk only” players, ping gear, etc. Im far too lazy for that. After all, it is the players choice to run with less optimal gear. It doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal gear for pve though.

Caramel Ham.4891:

Star Ace.5207:

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.

So now you are arguing that the point of entering a dungeon run is to not finish it?

mmm…yeah, good luck with that.

Sure, I am sure that’s what I meant.

Honestly, all I see is insults and intolerance. It’s hard to take people seriously after comments such as yours.

I won’t explain what I mean, because it’s quite obvious, and it’s nothing I haven’t stated before. Your comment does nothing to prove that 100% of players should use Berserker’s, or else they are being “selfish”.

People who are dismissing the zerker mentality are forgetting that there are plenty of competitive players who have probably enjoyed the “story” and camaraderie aspects of the dungeon on their first few playthroughs, just as much as a more smell-the-roses-oriented type of player.

But once they’ve learned the dungeon and know the story, it just becomes a farm that, if you aren’t doing it as efficiently as possible, you are wasting your time on.

That seems to me a perfectly legitimate point of view, even as a “bad”, smell-the-roses type of player myself.

Each to their own. Just associate with like-minded people, that’s all.

Caramel Ham.4891:

Star Ace.5207:

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.

So now you are arguing that the point of entering a dungeon run is to not finish it?

mmm…yeah, good luck with that.

The point of even doing a dungeon, for me, is to have fun first and foremost. I don’t care about finishing it in five minutes, although the challenge can sometimes be fun (see how fast you can do it, beat old times, etc…). But if players go into dungeons and only want to be done with them, because they’re such a boring chore to them, then why even play this game? Why not do something that’s fun rather than suck it away from others? And why do something that’s not fun, for you, during your leisure time?

I’ll run whatever builds and stat combinations I want to run. I’m not playing to beat everything in five minutes, or stack in corners so I can just press “1” the entire fight and win. I want a fun challenge, I want to be moving around and doing things, I want to use my abilities and to use the abilities I like. If you can’t stand that type of player then, well, we won’t be grouping.

Additionally, I’m not playing for your enjoyment; I’m playing for mine. If you want your groups to have specific gear and specific makeups then either say so before you grab random people, or get like minded people to run things with you more often. Taking away things, from the game, just to make everyone the same is stomping on other player’s fun and is a rather selfish way to go about things when there are viable alternatives that don’t have a massive blanket effect.

Not everyone plays like you, with the same mindset, goals, intentions or reasons. To treat everyone like they must play like you is… well, why would they even continue to play if it wasn’t their play style? It’d hurt the game in the long run.

Star Ace.5207:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Star Ace.5207:

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.

So now you are arguing that the point of entering a dungeon run is to not finish it?

mmm…yeah, good luck with that.

Sure, I am sure that’s what I meant.

Honestly, all I see is insults and intolerance. It’s hard to take people seriously after comments such as yours.

I won’t explain what I mean, because it’s quite obvious, and it’s nothing I haven’t stated before. Your comment does nothing to prove that 100% of players should use Berserker’s, or else they are being “selfish”.

If all you are going to do is play the damsel in distress when no one is insulting you because you have absolutely no valid points then yah. Keep at it.

Kit.3986:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Star Ace.5207:

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.

So now you are arguing that the point of entering a dungeon run is to not finish it?

mmm…yeah, good luck with that.

The point of even doing a dungeon, for me, is to have fun first and foremost. I don’t care about finishing it in five minutes, although the challenge can sometimes be fun (see how fast you can do it, beat old times, etc…). But if players go into dungeons and only want to be done with them, because they’re such a boring chore to them, then why even play this game? Why not do something that’s fun rather than suck it away from others? And why do something that’s not fun, for you, during your leisure time?

I’ll run whatever builds and stat combinations I want to run. I’m not playing to beat everything in five minutes, or stack in corners so I can just press “1” the entire fight and win. I want a fun challenge, I want to be moving around and doing things, I want to use my abilities and to use the abilities I like. If you can’t stand that type of player then, well, we won’t be grouping.

Additionally, I’m not playing for your enjoyment; I’m playing for mine. If you want your groups to have specific gear and specific makeups then either say so before you grab random people, or get like minded people to run things with you more often. Taking away things, from the game, just to make everyone the same is stomping on other player’s fun and is a rather selfish way to go about things when there are viable alternatives that don’t have a massive blanket effect.

Not everyone plays like you, with the same mindset, goals, intentions or reasons. To treat everyone like they must play like you is… well, why would they even continue to play if it wasn’t their play style? It’d hurt the game in the long run.

Your point is all nice. But it doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal.

I agree that you can always play with like minded people. Hence, before joining a pug, you should ask if they are there to smell the roses or finish the dungeon. I bet you the majority will tell you that they are there to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.

Which brings me to another point. I will have to thank you for the insight you have given me on how some players play the game. I will from now on ask pugs if their goal is to actually finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.

Btw, I don’t care about finishing a dungeon THE fastest possible. Im not going for records. All I care is that I don’t want to be stuck in a dungeon that should only take 8-10 mins into a half hour one….worst, that we don’t even finish it at all. Also, who says zerker geared players aren’t having fun??

colesy.8490:

How they play the game is irrelevant, the best gear isl that which contributes the most in a fight, and you contribute to a fight purely with DPS. Support skills work fine as they are without using jank stats like healing power or boon duration (for PVE of course, pvp and wvw is different)

How is it irrelevant? Because you say so and others should cater to how YOU play the game?

Funny to claim that boon duration is bad. :P I don’t like Giver’s armor (seems good for a niche, experimental build or mixed with other trinkets), but boon duration by itself is nice, EVEN if you had a full Berserker’s Guardian minus the Runes (seeing as you play one.)

And healing power is junk to you, but not to many others-speak only for yourself (basically, the “leet” problem-deciding which is the “best” way to play for people they have no business forcing their will unto, much less bullying/insulting.)

If there’s no convincing you that insulting others (selfish/bad are highly offensive) isn’t the appropriate way to deliver the message that you deem Berserker’s is the superior gameplay option for PvE, let’s just ignore each other moving forward. People shouldn’t be bullied for not subscribing to a meta, and this goes beyond data spreadsheets and YouTube videos-no “efficiency” is worth hating/ridiculing/ denigrating others.

Caramel Ham.4891:

Your point is all nice. But it doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal.

I could get behind this, it is easier currently to kill something faster and not worry about getting hit than to try to balance damage and survivability. Especially if you get a group together who can all drop some high-level DPS.

However! And this is a big thing . . .

I am not willing to go full glass cannon because I, simply, stink at dodging on time for many attacks. I run out of stamina due to dodging twice when once would have worked, due to missed timing. I choose P/V/T gear (Soldier’s) to try to bolster my ability to take damage. (It’s not always very successful, but hey I have surprised myself sometimes.)

On the other side, I didn’t go MF gear (Traveler’s) because the stats didn’t line up with what I was trying for and it was weaker than what I wanted to be. I might have made myself a set of armor, but my inventory is kinda cluttered already with a few things and I like having the space from time to time.

But the deep truth is either my class is just not optimal for the task (Ranger) or I am not an optimal player, so I mostly just sit out anymore. Except for Candidate Trials, where there was an actual use for being able to load about six skills to hinder movement . . .

Caramel Ham.4891:

generalraccoon.3857:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

I certainly don’t play as the “dps dps dps” people do . While I put some thought to damage output in a build, I always expect mistakes to occur; people will get downed and I hope in some cases i can help bring them up again while being under threat.

But be that as it may,I think we all tend to gravitate to like minded people. So zerker fanatics likely play mostly with zerker fanatics, which through their personal experience shows zerkers have a higher success rate than the rest. Me, after reading such stuff in forums, my phobia towards this kind of streamlined, dare i say elitist, preference means I also stick to running dungeons among guildies, who from leader to most new recruits, are against the zerker philosophy; yes we want to go with the objective of finishing a dungeon but we prefer a slow but safe approach coupled with anyone bringing in whatever they prefer, probably even MF. The few times we do encounter zerker built toons, we tend to keep seeing them flat on the ground. there are those zerkers that pull it off well, but from what i’ve seen so far… they are few and far between.

Not to be a prick and no offense, but the reason zerker geared players die while running with you guys is exactly because he is running with you guys. The zerker player wont be able to avoid that much dmg when the fight is dragging on forever. This is why I run with two pieces of knights….because all I do is PUG. That is my sweet spot when others in my grp are running less than optimal gear for the content. My warrior also pulls out a long bow (thus dragging out the fight) when I think players in my grp are running something akin to white gear in dmg stats.

The only reason I don’t run full zerker is because I don’t bother asking for “zerk only” players, ping gear, etc. Im far too lazy for that. After all, it is the players choice to run with less optimal gear. It doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal gear for pve though.

If you’re 733t enough, you should be able to avoid AAAAAAALLLLL!

So you’re saying, the second the devs make a mob survive just a bit longer, those berserkers will get killed?

the amount of cancer in this thread is enough to solve all the employment problem in the medical related industries

gurugeorge.9857:

But once they’ve learned the dungeon and know the story, it just becomes a farm that, if you aren’t doing it as efficiently as possible, you are wasting your time on.

I guess this is why I haven’t played dungeons as hardcore as I used to back in Feb and March. I guess after everyone enjoyed the story and camaraderie, everyone else flipped the farm switch and I flipped the challenge switch.

Everyone else must be seeking how to make the game as easy and simple as possible while I try to see if I can accomplish what I did before but in this way or that way. When players start crying about not stacking all up in each other, that’s when I lost the nerve to ever step into dungeons again.

I mean, all the cheating and cheeze-kitten tactics were bad enough, but ‘speed runs’ are just boring :P

I can’t wait till they improve a lot of the PVE content to make other stats combos more useful. The main reason I think that zerker builds dominate PVE so much, is because the opponents have no defense against massive melee damage overkill. None of the bosses challenge the players, or demand different strategies. In fact, they discourage such strategies (see Defiant). Once a mob of warriors jumps a boss in melee range, bosses are unable to respond. This is simply a design oversight. Good bosses occasionally force players to back away, or force them to focus on other things than damage (such as stripping boons, or CC). But none of GW2’s bosses do this. Instead, most of them use no boons at all, and are all immune to CC skills.

I remember there being several bosses in GW1 where you absolutely needed to strip enchantments (Kanaxi), or interrupt skills (Glint).

Leo G.4501:

Caramel Ham.4891:

generalraccoon.3857:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

I certainly don’t play as the “dps dps dps” people do . While I put some thought to damage output in a build, I always expect mistakes to occur; people will get downed and I hope in some cases i can help bring them up again while being under threat.

But be that as it may,I think we all tend to gravitate to like minded people. So zerker fanatics likely play mostly with zerker fanatics, which through their personal experience shows zerkers have a higher success rate than the rest. Me, after reading such stuff in forums, my phobia towards this kind of streamlined, dare i say elitist, preference means I also stick to running dungeons among guildies, who from leader to most new recruits, are against the zerker philosophy; yes we want to go with the objective of finishing a dungeon but we prefer a slow but safe approach coupled with anyone bringing in whatever they prefer, probably even MF. The few times we do encounter zerker built toons, we tend to keep seeing them flat on the ground. there are those zerkers that pull it off well, but from what i’ve seen so far… they are few and far between.

Not to be a prick and no offense, but the reason zerker geared players die while running with you guys is exactly because he is running with you guys. The zerker player wont be able to avoid that much dmg when the fight is dragging on forever. This is why I run with two pieces of knights….because all I do is PUG. That is my sweet spot when others in my grp are running less than optimal gear for the content. My warrior also pulls out a long bow (thus dragging out the fight) when I think players in my grp are running something akin to white gear in dmg stats.

The only reason I don’t run full zerker is because I don’t bother asking for “zerk only” players, ping gear, etc. Im far too lazy for that. After all, it is the players choice to run with less optimal gear. It doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal gear for pve though.

If you’re 733t enough, you should be able to avoid AAAAAAALLLLL!

So you’re saying, the second the devs make a mob survive just a bit longer, those berserkers will get killed?

So you think a zerker player can pretty much kill and face tank (keeping agro while dodging big attacks and don’t forget boss auto attacks) a boss that is designed to be killed with 5 players, while the rest are pewpewpewing from far away with pvt gear? Sorry, Im not that pro.

Dungeons require 5 players for a reason. Its called teamwork.

Heres the definition from dictionary.com

team·work
[teem-wurk]

noun
1.
cooperative or coordinated effort on the part of a group of persons acting together as a team or in the interests of a common cause.

2.
work done with a team.

Notice how at the end of definition 1 it says “in the interests of a common cause”? What is that common cause for the majority of the player base? Its to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.

Taking players like you in a dungeon surely isn’t going to help the interests of the players in said dungeon. Unless ofc you create your own group or run with your guild, stating that you are there to smell the flowers.

So that brings in to my final point. Which I have repeated many times (not to you, but in this thread) you chose to ignore.

Zerker gear is the most optimal gear choice for pve. Fact.

You can run w/e you want. Fact.

You can create your little group of smell the flowers. Fact.

DO NOT expect to be welcomed in a grp whose sole purpose is to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time and to be called out because you are wearing a horrible choice of gear and traits for pve.

btw, zerker players can also stop and smell the flowers. I have been in like one or two zerker farms ever and I do not like them. All they do is rush rush rush. It still does NOT change the fact that zerker gear is the optimal gear choice for pve.

So your “hate” towards players with zerker gear is completely misplaced. Blame Anet for designing content that completely favors dmg over anything else.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Your point is all nice. But it doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear is the most optimal.

I could get behind this, it is easier currently to kill something faster and not worry about getting hit than to try to balance damage and survivability. Especially if you get a group together who can all drop some high-level DPS.

However! And this is a big thing . . .

I am not willing to go full glass cannon because I, simply, stink at dodging on time for many attacks. I run out of stamina due to dodging twice when once would have worked, due to missed timing. I choose P/V/T gear (Soldier’s) to try to bolster my ability to take damage. (It’s not always very successful, but hey I have surprised myself sometimes.)

On the other side, I didn’t go MF gear (Traveler’s) because the stats didn’t line up with what I was trying for and it was weaker than what I wanted to be. I might have made myself a set of armor, but my inventory is kinda cluttered already with a few things and I like having the space from time to time.

But the deep truth is either my class is just not optimal for the task (Ranger) or I am not an optimal player, so I mostly just sit out anymore. Except for Candidate Trials, where there was an actual use for being able to load about six skills to hinder movement . . .

Instead of PVT gear, try to get a mix of berserker and knights. I don’t play a ranger so I wouldn’t know what is the optimal gear for Rangers. Try going to gw2 guru (this forum is prob the worst place to find any good builds) and find a dps spec from there. Then try to find a mix of equipment that will give you enough dmg but also a bit of survivability.

For example my Warrior has two piece of knights (shoulders and gloves) and the rest berserker. I have found this to be my best balance without having to run with an organized grp.

I do wish Anet would do something to change the meta though.

Caramel Ham.4891:

Thanks for the advice! I’m still playing to learn weapon tactics, because believe it or not I only know about half the weapons as well as I’d like. Dagger and axe off-hand not at all, sword main-hand in the sense of “this could be cool but I feel too fragile to do this”.

Caramel Ham.4891:

Notice how at the end of definition 1 it says “in the interests of a common cause”? What is that common cause for the majority of the player base? Its to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.

Hah, you fail to realize that ‘reasonable’ isn’t measurable. What is reasonable to some is unacceptable to others. Frankly, if you can’t survive as a zerker in a non-full-out-zerker group, it’s because you don’t understand the encounter enough.

I’m not pro. I’ve tried soloing dungeons and only accomplished defeating some of the bosses. I can survive as a zerker warrior or elementalist in regular PuGs with newbs or ‘just for fun’ runs.

Trying to blame the people that aren’t zerkers for the failure of a zerker is where you’re crossing the line. That line separates preference and “I’m wrong”.

Taking players like you in a dungeon surely isn’t going to help the interests of the players in said dungeon.

Lol

Zerker gear is the most optimal gear choice for pve. Fact.

You can run w/e you want. Fact.

You can create your little group of smell the flowers. Fact.

I suppose if by ‘smell flowers’ you mean solo champions while standing in his face taking his damage while my phantasms widdle him down without even needing to touch ‘v’. Of course, that’s only one of my builds. My characters can do a variety of things.

DO NOT expect to be welcomed in a grp whose sole purpose is to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time and to be called out because you are wearing a horrible choice of gear and traits for pve.

Not a problem. I don’t run dungeons anymore (at least not recently).

Enjoy your nerfed gold return You guys totally earned it.

Also, to touch on that. Yeah, zerkers can stop and smell the flowers too. The point though is, you never actually did otherwise the devs wouldn’t have seen a need to restrict your rewards. And they likely aren’t done screwing around with the rewards because those zerkers don’t spend time smelling the flowers, but instead drill for ways to exploit content until it needs to be fixed/nerfed.

PS: The end of my post is more aimed at elitists, not so much ‘zerker’ gear wearing players. I have a set of zerker gear on nearly all my characters too.

Leo G.4501:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Notice how at the end of definition 1 it says “in the interests of a common cause”? What is that common cause for the majority of the player base? Its to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time.

Hah, you fail to realize that ‘reasonable’ isn’t measurable. What is reasonable to some is unacceptable to others. Frankly, if you can’t survive as a zerker in a non-full-out-zerker group, it’s because you don’t understand the encounter enough.

I’m not pro. I’ve tried soloing dungeons and only accomplished defeating some of the bosses. I can survive as a zerker warrior or elementalist in regular PuGs with newbs or ‘just for fun’ runs.

Trying to blame the people that aren’t zerkers for the failure of a zerker is where you’re crossing the line. That line separates preference and “I’m wrong”.

Taking players like you in a dungeon surely isn’t going to help the interests of the players in said dungeon.

Lol

Zerker gear is the most optimal gear choice for pve. Fact.

You can run w/e you want. Fact.

You can create your little group of smell the flowers. Fact.

I suppose if by ‘smell flowers’ you mean solo champions while standing in his face taking his damage while my phantasms widdle him down without even needing to touch ‘v’. Of course, that’s only one of my builds. My characters can do a variety of things.

DO NOT expect to be welcomed in a grp whose sole purpose is to finish the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time and to be called out because you are wearing a horrible choice of gear and traits for pve.

Not a problem. I don’t run dungeons anymore (at least not recently).

Enjoy your nerfed gold return You guys totally earned it.

Also, to touch on that. Yeah, zerkers can stop and smell the flowers too. The point though is, you never actually did otherwise the devs wouldn’t have seen a need to restrict your rewards. And they likely aren’t done screwing around with the rewards because those zerkers don’t spend time smelling the flowers, but instead drill for ways to exploit content until it needs to be fixed/nerfed.

Reasonable is completely measurable. Lets just take for example cof path 1 since everyone knows that one. A good grp (not 100% zerker) can complete that in about 7 mins. That means you take that as your base measure against the run you are currently doing, thus have created a measurement. So a cof run path 1 that takes 8-10 mins is something I would call reasonable.

As for me not knowing the encounters….lol. Just shows you don’t really understand what you are really talking about. The easiest example I can think of for a zerker warrior to go down in is the very first boss in cof path 1. Good luck sticking to him, doing tons of dmg, and not going down when the rest are newbs with what seems like white gear and horrible trait choices. Sure I can go long bow and pew pew from far away….but that is not optimal nor is the point.

See, the nice thing about internet is that you can claim to do something in which you, in real life, cannot accomplish. So that’s why we have something like “proof or didn’t happen”. I would love to see you in fractals in full zerk gear (face tanking the boss and trash) while everyone else is pewpewpewing with pvt gear and not go down once. Sure there are some bosses and some trash that you can solo without going down, but not all of them. As for me, Im not claiming something false.

“Trying to blame the people that aren’t zerkers for the failure of a zerker is where you’re crossing the line. That line separates preference and “I’m wrong”."

Lol at this. You really have no clue what optimal means do you? Are you that out of touch with the game that you fail to even know what the purpose of zerker gear is for?

I really don’t care what your characters can do nor do I care if you can solo champions or not. That is your business and no one elses. I can solo champions too with gear that is more balanced but we are talking about dungeons. Team work. Not alone. 5 players.

Lol you speak to me as if all zerker players were farmers. You REALLY are out of touch in this game. Im even starting to doubt more than half your claims now. Also, I am glad Anet nerfed those cof farms. This way, other dungeons will start being ran more often so I can get a pugs faster. Takes me less than a second to get a cof path 1 grp, compared to lets say SE, which is also easy, but takes me like 5 or more minutes during prime time.

Caramel Ham.4891:

So your “hate” towards players with zerker gear is completely misplaced. Blame Anet for designing content that completely favors dmg over anything else.

However, should we blame ANet for people with bad attitudes looking down on those who don’t play their way? Because I have no problem with Berserker’s gear at all. My problem is the intolerant, self-important attitude of many who would say there’s no other way to play PvE, otherwise one MUST be selfish, which is utterly ridiculous and illogical (never mind mean-spirited, and indeed, where true selfishness lies.)

The ONLY occasion where it would be “selfish” to run anything other than Berserker’s gear is if someone clearly posted the requirement in an ad, and a player joins with alternate gear-the “non-zerk” gear itself is wholly valid, but the person should have known better to respect the wishes of the “zerkers” (darn I hate the “zerk” moniker.)

Caramel Ham.4891:

I really don’t care what your characters can do nor do I care if you can solo champions or not. That is your business and no one elses. I can solo champions too with gear that is more balanced but we are talking about dungeons. Team work. Not alone. 5 players.

Also, you are aware that PvE includes the “faceroll easy” PvE map where many-though most probably not all-solo Berserker’s die when facing difficult odds, right? Can you look me in the eye and say that 100% players must all use Berserker’s gear for PvE, or else they are being selfish?

I love roaming the map solo, and though high offense is lovely and effective, it honestly sucks in certain situations if you are suddenly mobbed or are facing a difficult Champion on your own (you most probably can’t kill the monster fast enough despite the full-offense, and some of them can be rather unfair, even to “tanky” characters.) And even if a few players could solo champs on “zerk” gear very easily, never getting hit as they sometimes claim, I bet that 100% of players on said gear can’t.

(Of course, I wouldn’t recommend soloing Champions on said gear, but just as an example of how flawed is the argument that everybody must use Berserker’s on PvE, just because it’s “meta” for a pocket of players.)

Caramel Ham.4891:

Reasonable is completely measurable. Lets just take for example cof path 1 since everyone knows that one. A good grp (not 100% zerker) can complete that in about 7 mins. That means you take that as your base measure against the run you are currently doing, thus have created a measurement. So a cof run path 1 that takes 8-10 mins is something I would call reasonable.

You see, I see a short path like CoF1 to be decently straight forward. If it runs 15min, that is perfectly reasonable to me. That’s about one cup of coffee. Perfectly reasonable, IMO. Why wouldn’t 15min be reasonable? And if I’m just killing time while I wait for guildies to log on, why wouldn’t 20min be reasonable?

As for me not knowing the encounters….lol.

Didn’t say you, but trying to tell me that players who gear in zerker gear die because everyone else is just slow is wrong.

How do you think soloers solo dungeon paths? Those fights often get waaaay way longer than if a balanced group of 5 did the same fight. If 1 guy wearing zerker gear can fight a boss for 6-10min and still win, why shouldn’t the same character in a group of 5 be able to survive a 2.5-3min fight?

As for everything else, you should have just said that as it sums up everything you need to say: “You don’t care.”

And you’re not alone. I honestly don’t care what people say about what gear other people wear nor do I care how people think the game should be played. If I cared, I’d still be playing dungeons, reporting exploiters and making suggestions on how to improve them.

There are other points in the game that likely need to change before dungeons start seeing more variety.

Star Ace.5207:

Caramel Ham.4891:

So your “hate” towards players with zerker gear is completely misplaced. Blame Anet for designing content that completely favors dmg over anything else.

However, should we blame ANet for people with bad attitudes looking down on those who don’t play their way? Because I have no problem with Berserker’s gear at all. My problem is the intolerant, self-important attitude of many who would say there’s no other way to play PvE, otherwise one MUST be selfish, which is utterly ridiculous and illogical (never mind mean-spirited, and indeed, where true selfishness lies.)

The ONLY occasion where it would be “selfish” to run anything other than Berserker’s gear is if someone clearly posted the requirement in an ad, and a player joins with alternate gear-the “non-zerk” gear itself is wholly valid, but the person should have known better to respect the wishes of the “zerkers” (darn I hate the “zerk” moniker.)

Bad attitudes are just that. Ignore and go on your way. That doesn’t change the fact that zerker is optimal for pve. In which case we are talking about dungeons.

Star Ace.5207:

Caramel Ham.4891:

I really don’t care what your characters can do nor do I care if you can solo champions or not. That is your business and no one elses. I can solo champions too with gear that is more balanced but we are talking about dungeons. Team work. Not alone. 5 players.

Also, you are aware that PvE includes the “faceroll easy” PvE map where many-though most probably not all-solo Berserker’s die when facing difficult odds, right? Can you look me in the eye and say that 100% players must all use Berserker’s gear for PvE, or else they are being selfish?

I love roaming the map solo, and though high offense is lovely and effective, it honestly sucks in certain situations if you are suddenly mobbed or are facing a difficult Champion on your own (you most probably can’t kill the monster fast enough despite the full-offense, and some of them can be rather unfair, even to “tanky” characters.) And even if a few players could solo champs on “zerk” gear very easily, never getting hit as they sometimes claim, I bet that 100% of players on said gear can’t.

(Of course, I wouldn’t recommend soloing Champions on said gear, but just as an example of how flawed is the argument that everybody must use Berserker’s on PvE, just because it’s “meta” for a pocket of players.)

Facing a lot of pve mobs in open world with only zerker gear is pretty hard. I think when people mention pve, they are mostly talking about dungeons. You cannot be selfish when you are playing alone. You can only be selfish when you are in a grp.

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

I mean, that’s the other thing. I am making a legendary but not truly grinding for it. I don’t need to grind for it. It’s not a mentality I adhere to. Frankly the way some of the posts on this forum sound, it just makes me think games have become joyless for a lot of players. It’s all this negative hate fest about grinding and gearing and getting the absolute most out of every single second played in some kind of tangible way. I mean fine, I guess, but that’s just not me.

I guess I am somewhere between casual and hardcore. I don’t want to just kitten around and wipe a million times and laugh about it because hrr rpz guildz or whatever, but I’m not going to turn it in to a job or an exercise in entitlement either.

I don’t understand where this line of thinking comes from either. I would consider myself a hardcore gamer and I if games became a job for me, I would quit….

I like to actually enjoy my games myself. Never been a speed run kind of guy. :-)