Guild Wars 2

+1 to this, my good sir

-1

They aren’t nerfing it because people are using it too much. They are nerfing it because there is an imbalance in terms of damage compared to single target attacks.

Did you read the blog and transcripts?

The game doesn’t force you to AoE, AoE is just always the best answer to a group of mobs.

THM.2036:

-1

They aren’t nerfing it because people are using it too much. They are nerfing it because there is an imbalance in terms of damage compared to single target attacks.

Did you read the blog and transcripts?

Really? Thief backstab for 14K damage?

THM.2036:

-1

They aren’t nerfing it because people are using it too much. They are nerfing it because there is an imbalance in terms of damage compared to single target attacks.

Did you read the blog and transcripts?

Thank you for proving my point about misleading data. Like you, the developers have been ignorantly fooled into thinking that, because the highest damage pool comes from AoE skills, the single target skills don’t do enough damage. You are both 100% wrong. All AoE skill are inherently weaker than single target skills. The difference comes in culmination. If you want to see a shift in cumulative damage from AoE to single-target, you don’t perpetuate the problem by making one less effective. You find an actual solution.

Usually in MMOs, CC is used to compensate for single target skills ineffectiveness at dealing with groups. But in GW2 the CC is not CC, it is fighting game combo breakers masking as CC.

The only CC that seems to have any measure off effect in PVE are thing like necro well of darkness that put blindness on mobs every second for multiple seconds. This because it will likely refresh the blindness after the mob attacked, missed, and had the blindness wear out.

The rest are 1-3 second duration but 40+ second recharge.

End result is that the game devolves to AOE, dodge, kite, rinse and repeat.

THM.2036:

-1

They aren’t nerfing it because people are using it too much. They are nerfing it because there is an imbalance in terms of damage compared to single target attacks.

Did you read the blog and transcripts?

This argument strikes me as missing the forest for the trees ie. aoe oriented specs overall are not strong specs, eg. staff ele is not a strong spec. When they choose to propose such nerfs while ignore the overwhelming power of some single target burst specs that kill targets before they opportunity to respond well you have to wonder where class balance is heading.

Dresden.1736:

If you want to see a shift in cumulative damage from AoE to single-target, you don’t perpetuate the problem by making one less effective. You find an actual solution.

Like what youre doing….oh no, wait, youve offered no constructive criticism whatsoever. How about coming on the forums and giving ideas as to how you would balance those using AOE in wvw instead of moaning about it and calling for people’s heads. I expect this thread to be closed pretty soon.

One thing I will say though- do you really think they’ll go in blindly and nerf every AOE skill in the game without testing? Do me a favour and get some common sense, they’ll test until theyre 100% sure before putting it in a patch.

Thereon.3495:

Dresden.1736:

If you want to see a shift in cumulative damage from AoE to single-target, you don’t perpetuate the problem by making one less effective. You find an actual solution.

Do me a favour and get some common sense, they’ll test until theyre 100% sure before putting it in a patch.

Umm..Ya sure about that? Have you played the game at all?

They did say they’ll nerf and improve other aspects and bring in more viable builds.

This thread is way ahead of its time, wait until you actually see the changes and then talk.
So much drama over something you didn’t get to taste yet.

digiowl.9620:

Usually in MMOs, CC is used to compensate for single target skills ineffectiveness at dealing with groups. But in GW2 the CC is not CC, it is fighting game combo breakers masking as CC.

The only CC that seems to have any measure off effect in PVE are thing like necro well of darkness that put blindness on mobs every second for multiple seconds. This because it will likely refresh the blindness after the mob attacked, missed, and had the blindness wear out.

The rest are 1-3 second duration but 40+ second recharge.

End result is that the game devolves to AOE, dodge, kite, rinse and repeat.

Now that is an interesting point. Something had been bugging me about the way “cc”—uhhh—“worked” in this game, and I think you nailed it.

As for the OP, I think you’re right, as well. Data mining would seem like the ideal way to analyze a game’s balance, as opposed to complaints on the forums. That being said, I have a bad feeling this thread is just going to be glossed over.

Thereon.3495:

Like what youre doing….oh no, wait, youve offered no constructive criticism whatsoever. How about coming on the forums and giving ideas as to how you would balance those using AOE in wvw instead of moaning about it and calling for people’s heads. I expect this thread to be closed pretty soon.

One thing I will say though- do you really think they’ll go in blindly and nerf every AOE skill in the game without testing? Do me a favour and get some common sense, they’ll test until theyre 100% sure before putting it in a patch.

I was saving my recommendations for when a humorous internet stereotype trolled demanded them from me. Now that that part has been fulfilled, I’ll happily share some of my recommendations! You’ll have to forgive me, though, as they aren’t very original, as they are the same excellent recommendations the community has been asking for for months.

They could start out with changing the way encounters work. Every where you go, you are going to get harassed by large mobs. Why would anyone with more than two brain cells start out with anything BUT AoE on that? That’s what they were designed for for cheese’s sake! AoE is generally much weaker than single-targeting skills, and no one is using their AoE on single targets unless they done have a choice (read: Elementalists and Engineers). If they want more single-target usage, present more encounters where you’re fighting more challenging single-targets vs many weaker ones.

As for the “issues” in WvW, I can’t really speak on that as I am completely uninterested in it. I read a lot of other people’s opinions on the matter, and I can’t help but agree with the solution being in a resigned metagame (provding different objectives, etc.).

Those are just a few constructive opinions which are a million times better than nerfing AoE. Feel free to read a few topics on here, and I’m sure you’ll see many more.

I have and for the most part PvE is balanced in my opinion. Notice ‘most part’- as with all games there are some inconsistencies here and there but theyre usually fixed within a suitable timeframe. I personally feel that rangers and engies need a tweeking but that thieves do not. Ive survived a backstab thief on many occasions simply by traiting right and having good reflexes. They mess up the combo or you interrupt them and they go down quick as anything.

The point I was originally making wasnt about my views on the supposed AOE nerf, its about trusting the team to get it right and not making wild accusations on the forums.

Bettin’ this is just a bullkitten ruse to nerf Engineers and Necros while buffing Warriors and Thieves.

Xae.7204:

Bettin’ this is just a bullkitten ruse to nerf Engineers and Necros while buffing Warriors and Thieves.

That’s ridiculous.

They don’t need a ruse to do that.

Dresden.1736:

Thank you for proving my point about misleading data. Like you, the developers have been ignorantly fooled into thinking that, because the highest damage pool comes from AoE skills, the single target skills don’t do enough damage.

Speaking of misleading data, where are you getting your data from?

Too much data (usually) results in missing the point.

Nerfing AoE will discourage tackling multiple enemies – it will not discipate zerg rushes. AoE is a tactic for holding off large number of enemy forces at the same time – remove this and it’s like saying to your enemy ’Here’s the key to my house.’

ITT, an example of people who have pre-conceived beliefs, looks at studies other people have done, and without knowing any details accuse them of wrongful analysis.

Other examples of this include global warming deniers. (THERE’S NO WAY THE ANALYSIS THE MAJORITY OF THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY PUBLISH IS CORRECT).

You can agree/disagree with the AoE nerf if you want. But to accuse Anet of somehow “mis-analyzing” data that they obtained, observed, and I’m sure spent lots of time processing while you have absolutely no idea what did exactly, is quite silly.

Be honest, who said AoE was a problem before ANet even mentioned it? No one. This is bad news for WvW.

This

There are three sins in the MIS world: Lies, bad lies, and statistics.

and this:

When you’re ready to admit the whole idea was half brained and want to bring in some real talent to provide meaningful and substantive data and analysis, I’m available for contract. Just give me a call.

For the win.

Man… it is gonna suck to be a staff ele in 1v1 after this =D Almost every one of their attacks will hit for 2 damage.

I just can’t see this nerf being good in any way. They did mention increasing AoE RESISTANCE to certain enemies, which I can sorta understand. I could also understand having enemy AI tell them to get out of the AoE.

Straight up lowering AoE damage? I don’t think they’ll go that route.

Yay more Zerg vs Zerg!

Vorch.2985:

I just can’t see this nerf being good in any way. They did mention increasing AoE RESISTANCE to certain enemies, which I can sorta understand. I could also understand having enemy AI tell them to get out of the AoE.

Straight up lowering AoE damage? I don’t think they’ll go that route.

Unless you’re increasing the damage done before they get out of the AoE, which kind of beats the purpose of doing this – … nevermind.

Anyway you look at it, this is bad news. Specially for WvW, which many of the people who bought GW2 play this game for.

A better nerf would be just to get rid of all AOE animation. Thus make the game less laggy and people can then get out of them before its too late.

Ursan.7846:

ITT, an example of people who have pre-conceived beliefs, looks at studies other people have done, and without knowing any details accuse them of wrongful analysis.

Bingo, the OPs entire argument is hypocritical.

He claims his opponents are guilty of ignoring evidence and data, yet he himself has no data on the subject his opponents are exploring nor does he have any on the explorers themselves or any action taken by them.

He proves himself guilty of and by his own accusation.

If they are going to nerf AOE, they should do so in a dynamically scaling fashion so that it does less damage when hitting 5 people than it would against 1. I say this because while AOE based chars will only feel the nerf mildly in group fights, 1v1 fights are going to be grossly affected for characters like staff eles and elixir gun engineers if they just do a flat rate nerf and say “lol have fun!”

I don’t think any kind of a nerf is necessary, personally, but if they are going to do it they should at least prepare to make some sort of concession for solo fights.

Cloud.7613:

Be honest, who said AoE was a problem before ANet even mentioned it? No one. This is bad news for WvW.

Are you absolutely sure that no one said it was a problem? Stating something as fact based on impartial evidence or no evidence at all is self defeating.

THM.2036:

-1

They aren’t nerfing it because people are using it too much. They are nerfing it because there is an imbalance in terms of damage compared to single target attacks.

Did you read the blog and transcripts?

In pvp:
target limit of 5
if you stand in the large red circle you deserve to get gibbed
without a potent way to attack groups, choke points on maps are meaningless, and zerging becomes even MORE of an issue.

in pve:
AI can be made to wait out and prefer aoe abilities for interrupt or cc if you consider an encounter ‘too easy with aoe’.
otherwise.. who the **** cares, computer generated AI doesn’t pay your bills, the people playing who LIKE aoe do.

In general:
Nobody has any business discouraging a playstyle unless it’s substantively ruining the days of a significant fraction of the (skilled) playerbase.

Hi everyone,

Due to the amount of threads on the “AoE nerf” we are trying to keep the forums organized.

For discussion on AoE mechanics please refer to this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-AoE-actually-a-problem-Discussion-Thread/page/2#post1234658

For those who are against the AoE nerf, we have prepared this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Don-t-nerf-AoE/first#post1234750. Please remember to also post reasons and constructive discussion.

Please note that these threads will be forwarded to the team.
Thanks for your understanding. We are closing this thread. Please, make use of those provided.