Guild Wars 2

From the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

1. Thank you for abolishing the grinding treadmill. You were right, instead of preparing to have fun, I can jump straight into it, at all levels. That is incredible. It’s such a simple concept, having fun instead of preparing for it, but so often overlooked.

I mean, there is the cosmetic grind, but it’s optional, and it’s more like a sideplot as I have my fun and incidentally accumulate materials and gold. Unless item skins are your idea of fun, then you can go chase for them. There is something for everyone.

Except for those who are obsessed with gear stats. You should have printed a warning label for them. Contains negligible amounts of gear grind.

2. Constant fun. You did lie about the life sucking though. My life IS being sucked away. There’s just too much to do. Dynamic level adjustment is a brilliant idea. Instead of being constrained to particular areas at particular levels, the world opens up more and more as I progress.

Dungeons. To be honest I was ambivalent about them at the start, but as I get the hang of them I’m having more fun with them.

Exploration. I’m not the exploring type of person, but I’m having a lot of fun doing that in the game. Beautiful graphics, the world exploration system, interesting local stories and quests, dynamic events… It’s a lethal mix, ArenaNet.

And then there are the other professions and races. Why do you inflict this upon me?!

I have a level 80 and a level 70+, and frankly I don’t understand why people feel like there’s no end-game. I’m not sure what expectations they had, but I had pretty high expectations too, which Guild Wars 2 has met, and then a whole lot more. I can’t get enough of the game.

3. Amazing skills and combat system design. I like the mix of weapon skills and open skill slots. I am discovering more ways to use my weapon every day (I mean weapon use strategies, not just unlocking skills), and that sense of greater adeptness at weapon use is very fulfilling.

For the first few days I remained still while using skills and had to constantly remind myself to move, which goes to show how fixed we are in the halting style of combat. Combat in Guild Wars 2 is fast (except against dungeon bosses :P), fluid, and so addictive.

There’s more I’d write about, but I’m pretty sure I had lost everyone’s attention by the fourth line. Thank you for this incredibly well thought-out and designed game, ArenaNet.

While i feel your post is a little overzealous and possibly clouded by said zealotry, i feel that your positive view of the game is a good thing (granted you arent being completely sarcastic). However, i cant totally agree. The game is hugely flawed in some departments. It really isnt the savior of the genre…i dont think there is such a thing. While it gleefully takes tried-and-true concepts and ties them together into one single product, the end result is still not incredibly unique. GW2 has done almost nothing new, instead relying on the foundations of its forerunners. This was my biggest disappointment. Sure its not a WoW clone, but its not exactly the first game (or best) to tackle particular features. The skill system i find myself frequently at odds with, as it ultimately punishes use if a singular weapon/combo (5 skills, that dont change, ever. If you love that greatsword, be prepared for using the same 5 keys forever, not all of which are entirely useful).

My biggest problem though is the lack of WvW progression. They seemed to NOT carry over that part from its (superior) predecessors. Instead their idea of progression is “have bags drop inconveniently in battle that may or may not contain the badges you need to get the gear…which all looks pretty horrible”

Overall, its a good romp. Its fun to play, and there is no subscription. The lack of a venerable lore-base doesnt keep me as interested in the game world as i would like, but im here to stay…on and off for the duration of the game’s lifespan, or until they really ruin it in a way that i cant imagine myself playing it. Your opinion is noted, and respected, i simply cant agree with everything you said I wish i were less cynical, maybe i wouldnt have to worry so much about these things.

I’m not going to argue against your first 2 points, as for the most part you’re 100% correct.

But for your third point, highly disagree, the combat/skills/builds are incredibly shallow in this game. =p

I’m not being sarcastic. I am genuinely enjoying the game, and if I come across as overzealous, it’s because it makes me a little sad to see the thought put into the game design lost on people who just want the same old MMORPG. I admit that the skill system felt a little restrictive at first, but there are a lot of nuances to the set each weapon provides. They combo well, and allow the character to excel in one way, while limiting it in others. I find that very immersive.

Also, if you look at each weapon as ONE skill slot, you get 7 to 9 slots (depending on whether you’re using one-handed + offhand or two-handed, counting weapon swaps, not considering elementalist attunements). That’s pretty flexible.

I have often lost track of time just playing in WvW. The main rewards of WvW (besides the badges, karma, coin, world benefits, etc.) are kind of intangible. It’s just exhilarating, whether taking part in massive battles, or ninja-ing, which players may or may not feel.

But I must agree that what you get from it progression-wise is somewhat limited. It would be a waste to let WvW go to waste, and it would be great if they could increase what WvW does for character progression to encourage more participation. More loot maybe? Lodestones would be nice, those things are impossible to get. Skills with alternative animations? E.g. FLAMING QUAGGANS OF BALTHAZAR. That would be pretty neat.

The only thing GW2 really lacks is:

skill selection
good camera (by any standards)
decent FOV

As someone who is new to the MMO genre, the game was initially daunting at first. The more I play it, the more I like what I am playing.

However, one thing that I don’t like is the fact that the skills are tied to the weapons. I’m only level 10-ish, but the fact I like using my 2 handed mighty hammmer means I will be using these same 5 main skills for the next 70 levels…

…which will grate on me, no matter how I dress it up.

1. There is certainly a grind. It just changed from better stats to different skins.
2. Yes, the game is certainly fun for a time….while leveling up.
3. The dodge system is a nice change…not new, but nice. I find the whole skill system rather limiting actually. Some weapons are truly useless compared to others. Some utilities are VERY situational, so if you don’t have them equipped, you’re SOL. Having to sacrifice something good just to have have 1 skill equipped for the perfect time is NOT fun. Again, some classes have it FAR better than others. Skills & traits for some make sense. Traits for others are a cluster^%&*. I appreciate the effort of trying to be different but it all comes off as restrictive.

Fun game, but short lived. Then again, maybe that was the whole point. No monthly fee, so no reason to play constantly. With that goes any sort of community. Good by social aspects.

I agree with the OP. GW2 is refreshing and fun.

Yes, there are issues with some skills being less useful than others, with profession balance, etc, but every MMO will have those issues. The difference is that GW2 has a great foundation in place, so most problems can be fixed with tweaks.

I can really feel the thought and design that went into GW2 in a way that I certainly didn’t feel in WoW, and haven’t felt in most other games.

I agree with axiology.5807, the game is brilliantly designed. I’ve played nearly a dozen MMO’s over the last decade that just have cut and pasted each others mistakes over and over, It’s completely refreshing to play a game by a team that truly looked at the issues with the genre and have take steps to make it better.

I think if more people could wrench the WoW colored glasses off their heads long enough to see that, they’d be able to let themselves truly enjoy the game instead of wishing for another Skinner Box to play in.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

And yet people don’t get it.

Calavera.1086:

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

And yet people don’t get it.

I actually think the journey there, and that feeling of constantly becoming more powerful is generally very rewarding. Guild Wars [Prophecies] did this almost perfectly, as once you hit 20 you had already gone through an adventure to reach endgame. By then you had to face level 20+ areas for the rest of the game.

Knote.2904:

I’m not going to argue against your first 2 points, as for the most part you’re 100% correct.

But for your third point, highly disagree, the combat/skills/builds are incredibly shallow in this game. =p

Well I, in turn, totally disagree with your assessment of the combat. I find it the most interesting and engaging of any MMO in recent years (and I have played most).

That said, it’s heavily dependent on play-style in the sense that it’s not a math equation like most games, but much more about player movement and positioning.

On the other hand, I would still like to see new weapons added to the game over time – as all classes could use more variety (except perhaps Warrior).

I think the manifesto is conceptually great, but I’m not sure they 100% delivered on it in terms of execution. I can still get enjoyment out of the game, but every now and then I see something that makes me grumble, and not in a “oh this is a good challenge” sort of way rather “oh this is bad design execution”.

Though I don’t entirely agree with the treadmill statement. Yes, it’s no longer a gear treadmill, but it is one of skins. In fact, there’s hardly a difference between the TP and systems that help support it and the RMAH system of D3 that everyone has lambasted.

First time poster here,

Thank you OP for creating this post, I just wanted to get something off my chest here.

I certainly appreciate the amount of effort and time been invested into this game. Creating something on the scale of an MMO is no easy task, and I don’t think players understand how much work and refinement this game has to go through to reach this stage. Rushing through a game that have so many intricate and creative details (conversation, scenery, even the character design) is doing a disservice to the developers. For most of the cases, I feel that the players are being unfair if they think this is a bad game simply because of small personal dissatisfaction. If they do feel that way, please, by all means, create a game that does not have these components AND innovative at the same time. I bet people will still think there are imperfections.

This is not a personal attack against anyone, I just thought it would be fair to appreciate the game a bit more, if not for the personal discomfort, but for the amount of effort and and time invested into something as innovative (in my opinion, or not by others) as this.

nests.6830:

First time poster here,

Thank you OP for creating this post, I just wanted to get something off my chest here.

I certainly appreciate the amount of effort and time been invested into this game. Creating something on the scale of an MMO is no easy task, and I don’t think players understand how much work and refinement this game has to go through to reach this stage. Rushing through a game that have so many intricate and creative details (conversation, scenery, even the character design) is doing a disservice to the developers. For most of the cases, I feel that the players are being unfair if they think this is a bad game simply because of small personal dissatisfaction. If they do feel that way, please, by all means, create a game that does not have these components AND innovative at the same time. I bet people will still think there are imperfections.

This is not a personal attack against anyone, I just thought it would be fair to appreciate the game a bit more, if not for the personal discomfort, but for the amount of effort and and time invested into something as innovative (in my opinion, or not by others) as this.

Complaints and bringing up issues is almost the entire point of forums or debates in general. Parliament or Congress or whatever doesn’t sit around and talk about the good job they did, they talk about issues and how to fix them (at least that’s the idea).

The whole “make a better game if you have a problem with this one”…. hate this argument. So if a repair guy doesn’t change my oil properly, I have to do it myself? No, I complain and tell him he did a bad job so he can do it properly.

The game isn’t so straight forward as to diagnosing and fixing the problems, but the problems are there and they do need solutions.

Best thing about Guild Wars 2? It isn’t this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

Technically you can say any form of virtual entertainment conforms to such a structure, pressing the buttons until the screen flashes and you get your metaphorical treat. GW2 takes away the methodical implementation of such carrot/stick mechanics very effectively, almost turning it on it’s head, rewarding you for almost anything you do.

I mean some people enjoy playing a game that feels like a second job, seems crazy to me but whatever. Maybe they don’t already have a job IRL. If the thrill of seeing your virtual numbers going up really does that much for you then fine, have fun. Personally, though, whenever I’ve played an MMO in the past, I feel like I’m actually being robbed by the developer; worst offenders being Korean style games like Aion where you are constantly punished by arbitrary mechanics and insane difficulty levels, and you’re paying for the privilege. Some may call it “hardcore”, I just call it rather perplexing.

GW2 feels much more like a real skill based gaming experience to me, you’re playing for the satisfaction of actually playing. The structure of PVP makes it more akin to deathmatch than the tedious best-gear-wins of other MMOs. I know that beating someone is because I played my class better, and it was a fair fight from the beginning.

Obviously, we’ll see if it still feels this way once I’m at 80 and have spent a few months in Tyria, but on the whole I can see myself sticking with this much longer than any other MMO I’ve played. It’s not without negatives of course- At times I’ve come across mobs that are arbitrarily invulnerable until you get close enough, for example, and the personal quest has some ludicrous fluctuations in difficulty level, but these are very minor complaints compared to the polish of the product as a whole. I just hope they keep bringing more to the table, at this stage I will happily cough up a few more pounds for expansions and such.

I include the link at the top of this post because I do still see a lot of players whining how “there’s no endgame” or “but the dungeon/pvp/event/whatever reward sucks!”, in this thread even. You’re missing the point. Go back to your carefully tuned hamster wheel in some other game.