Guild Wars 2

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?
When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.
However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.
There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.
unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.
That to me, sounds broken

In PvE, all builds are viable with perhaps the exception being in raids. With how some people are clearing them, this may even be true for raids although it would then require a higher skill level to pull off. There’s a big difference between viable and optimal.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

There are always going to be builds that do not work. I don’t think the devs’ goal was to allow playing without thinking.

For example trying to play condi with full berserker gear is going to work poorly.

A less extreme example would be taking a trait that gives you more damage for every boon on you but the build doesn’t generate any boons. It would be a terrible solo build but potentially usable for group content where you know other members will be supplying the boons.

Let this sink deeply into your mind:

There is no game with asymmetrical design for different classes/races/characters/vehicles/whatever that is actually balanced. Given enough time players will figure what beats what and which components are better overall in most scenarions, who want to be optimal with their gameplay will drift towards optimal builds to get better results, sometimes even at the expense of fun.

It doesn’t matter if Anet overhaul all the classes tomorrow, given a few weeks people will have figured out which options are better for each situation and those builds will be top tier in the new metagame.

With all that said, I think there is enough variety as it is. Talking about only top tier builds, there are different game modes which require different builds, some of these game modes have variety and adjustments inside their own meta, the build changes depending on whether you’re playing solo or in group and on the composition of your group.

Putting top tier builds aside, there are still viable or cheesy options that you can play around and still have fun regardless and sometimes those don’t perform too much bellow the current top tier builds if you’re willing to give 10~15% damage away for some survivability or something else…

General Health.9678:

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

Galtrix.7369:

General Health.9678:

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

Please look up the difference between viable and optimal.

Ayrilana.1396:

Please look up the difference between viable and optimal.

I know the definitions, thank you. Perhaps you should look them up?

To my mind a big part of an RPG is designing your character, and a big part of that is deciding what skills and equipment to use.

I think there actually need to be bad choices for that design to be meaningful. If it’s possible to throw together any combination of skills, traits and equipment and be equally good then why bother putting any thought into it? Except that it gets to be very boring. And realistically the only way that’s possible is to minimise choice.

For example look at Dragonage Origins vs. Dragonage Inquisition. The first was advertised as the spiritual successor to the DnD games and although it’s already simplified in a lot of ways (only 3 classes for example) that’s clear in the design – you can put your rogue in heavy armour, but you have to put points into strength to be able to wear it and then you can’t put them into the more useful stats. In Inquisition they solved that problem…by making it impossible to equip anything except medium armour on a rogue (and likewise warriors can only wear heavy armour). Brilliant – no one can unknowingly make a bad choice! And equally no one can decide they want to take that penalty because they’ve come up with a novel build idea that makes it worthwhile.

Maybe I’m the odd one out here but I frequently enjoy putting together unusual builds in RPGs. In GW2 my main is a druid in a mix of rabid and sinister equipment, using a shortbow and sword/torch even though I’ve been told at various times that no one uses a shortbow and rangers never use torches and no one should have toughness on PvE gear. But that build does exactly what I want it to do – the skills are fun for me and the toughness means I don’t have to focus on active defence all the time. It may not be the absolute greatest, most optimal build it’s possible to put together (in fact I’m sure it’s not) but it’s good enough that I can complete everything I’ve wanted to do using it (ranging from HoT maps and story to Fractals to WvW) and most importantly I find it fun.

Which is not at all the case when I’m using a meta build in the way some guy on youtube has dictated that I must use it.

Galtrix.7369:

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

There will always be builds that are suboptimal. There are also builds that function better/more intuitively at lower skill levels, but can’t hit as ‘high’ as a properly-played metabuild (For example, Warriors that keep discipline or defense traited across all gamemodes)

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

Actually, Berzerker also produces sub-par results if the person doesn’t have sufficient mastery of active defenses to utilize it, or if they run a condition build (Vipers and Sinister are better, obviously). In fact, the best players mix in Assassin’s gear to properly tune their crit chance (They can get a few extra points of performance out of it, but it requires accurate knowledge of your class, traits, sigils, base stats, and the stat system itself to properly tune crit chance), while most ‘Functional" players mix in off-stats to support survivability (The idiots who run ’zerker without knowing how aren’t functional.) In PvP and WvW, Berzerker gear is a death sentence… and given how WvW uses PvE gear, there’s a lot of players who run a functional blend of stats that work in both game modes.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

Players who use berzerker gear and only berzerker gear don’t fully know what they’re doing. If they did, and can play that glassy, they’d have assassin’s mixed in to properly tune their DPS. Those that can’t play that glassy and know what they’re doing mix in bits of Cavalier, Marauder, Soldier, Valkyrie, or Knight’s gear as well.

Furthermore, gear stats aren’t a ‘build’. At least not the bulk of the build. In fact, it’s so insignificant that PvP condenses it into a single amulet. The more important aspects of builds are Weapons and Traits, followed by Sigils, and Runes. A Shouts Frontliner Warrior in Marauder gear plays more similarly in performance and role to a Shouts Frontliner warrior in Zealot’s gear than it does to a Phalanx Strength Warrior in Marauder gear.

Galtrix.7369:

Ayrilana.1396:

Please look up the difference between viable and optimal.

I know the definitions, thank you. Perhaps you should look them up?

I don’t think you do. You’re treating viable and optimal as the same thing when they are not. It’s glaringly obvious when you say berserker is the only viable stat in PvE.

Galtrix.7369:

General Health.9678:

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

My sinister and carrion warrior’s says “Hi”.

Galtrix.7369:

General Health.9678:

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

Every build is viable in open pve. For fractal and raids there are build that are more efficent, since it means they use best sinergy of traits + gear stat+ weapon set+ utility skills. They are called metabuild. Some classes also have more than One metabuild. Warrior has 2, elementalist has even 3.
I never played gw1 but the fact you made “your own builds” means nothing.
If I make my own build for my elementalist to do raids and I get carried from my mates that doesn’t mean I will can write a post in gw3 forum to complain about the fact that “in gw2 I could made my own build”.

Marauder, zealot, viper, sinister, cleric, magi are stats combination very viable. Most of them are also in metabuild. So I don’t see your point when you say that berserker is the only viable stat. Maybe 1 year ago it was.

Please show me a build that is not viable for you but for your logic it should be.

Also finally right by now PvE balance is the best we had since the start of the game. Every class is viable.
I still remeber the time when no one wanted a necro or ranger in his party.

Galtrix.7369:

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

How do you know I confused him? That seems a bit weird.
And thanks for your advice but I’m going to choose not to take it. Hope that’s ok.

Galtrix.7369:

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

Coming from someone with tons of builds from many games over the years, the builds here might be sub-optimal when compared to the meta (so primarily power and condi) but they are still viable, you can make one and run a dungeon. You probably won’t be doing it solo or in any great time but I’ve done dungeons with pugs in green gear and we still beat the content.

There are plenty of people here making their own builds rather than getting the metabattle (or similar) build that you’re just insulting. Berserker is the optimal dps build for reasons but those other guys are just as good team mates no matter what they mixed and matched.

Galtrix.7369:

General Health.9678:

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

You are mistaken. Non berzerker builds are viable. Viable means capable of functioning. People have been using non berzerker builds successfully in pve for as long as the game has existed. If only berzerker weee viable then it would not be possible to complete any content with (for example) rampagers, knights, celestial, etc.

Non berzerker is not sub-par, it is suboptimal. Par means (essentially) average. If berzerker is the best then, by definition, par is lower than berzerker. So, again by definition of the word, if par is below zerker, then (some) non zerker are par, not sub-par.

Viable and optimal ae completely different things. Dont feel bad, you are not the only person on these forums who struggles with this concept. Remember, if the build is capable of functioning at all (ranger shortbow with rampagers gear for example) in game content then it is viable, even if not optimal.

Meta builds are chosen as meta because they seen as are the best option not only to do specific things, but to do them in specific ways. For instance, the WvW Pirate Ship meta requires certain professions with specific builds to do specific things in fights. It those builds are absent, the Pirate Ship is likely to sink, because the game-play elements that make it work are to some degree absent.

Thus, it’s hardly surprising that players clustered together doing WvW, PvP or PvE are using meta builds. The tactic they’re involved in using works best. This does not mean that a different tactic with different builds wouldn’t work. It just means that if the content being done is hard enough to require a tactic in the first place, then a mismatch between the tactic and the builds that make that tactic work is seen as bad.

The thing about build diversity is this. If there is variety in how one plays, that’s seen as good. However, some people seem to expect that players should welcome any build no matter which tactic the group is using. That is not only impossible, it’s not desirable. For true build diversity, certain builds have to work better in different circumstances.

The so-called “berserker” meta was reviled specifically because a given tactic performed best in way too many circumstances. While all-out glass direct damage builds are still useful in many circumstances, they no longer perform best in quite as many circumstances There might in fact be more room for different cases where glass is sub-optimal, but game balance is always a work in progress.

The other misconception about build diversity is that all builds should approach being equally effective in all (or most) circumstances. This is a misconception because, in order to justify its existence, a build (or gear prefix) need only be useful to certain play styles in certain segments of the game. The only way to approach equal effectiveness across builds in all circumstances is to make the builds so similar as to be boring.

Builds that are broken? Well, I’d say that bunker builds with insane survival ability that also hit like 18 Wheelers are what’s broken.

Stu, yours is a complicated question.

The equipment stat, weapon choice, and trait selection is a mini-game all by itself. Most of the permutations will be sub-optimal because the “build for your encounter game” is a core part of GW2.

On the other hand, some builds are so much more effective that they became “meta”. Meta builds with clear superiority suck the variety, and fun, out of the mini-game I just described. “Play your way” becomes “Play the only right way.”

This is just my opinion but I believe builds that have broad use and clear advantages should be balanced downward and there should always be a few builds of generally equal effectiveness to choose from. That usually means adjustments upward for other builds.

Balancing is very complex, though, so expect a careful approach.

Ideally, Metabattle.com will have many good builds for each profession and each type of content. That would mean none of the builds listed are overwhelmingly superior and implies balance within a profession.

Also, each profession’s meta builds need to be roughly equal in capability with all the rest. That makes player skill the only true differentiator – that includes skill in building your your character, or at least in using a posted build.

A recent example of trimming a meta build is the changes to Necromancer relating to Deathly Chill. In PvE, chill condition damage was being cleared from bosses by chills applied by other players.

Meanwhile, chill base durations were so long that a chilling Reaper could perma-chill opponents in PvP, which was very powerful.

Which problem drove the resulting nerf has been debated enough but, at least for PvP, one meta was obliterated.

What I don’t like about the huge change to builds (now with the specialization system) is that I feel extremely limited to what I can do. For example, so many specs for Necro have mandatory “skills” that benefit Shroud, when I honestly have no reason to ever use it (I’m not a fan of it, either). And how Thieves’ specs have a lot of stealth-improving “skills”, but I don’t care for being the stereotypical thief with stealth, either. I liked back when the individual build lines would increase specific stats and empower specific weapons, but not shoehorn us so much into picking only three specs that don’t give many benefits. Sure, they do give benefits, it’s just they feel way too specific. So I have to choose the ones that have the most benefits I care about, but even then it’s not enough. Customization has been limited more and more with each change to the build system, and I’m sick of it.

Galtrix.7369:

General Health.9678:

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

Lol only zerker gear is viable to run in PvE? You must be playing a different game man. A lot of players don’t even like running zerker because its really not all that great. No condi at all in those stats. Absolutely none. And yet the current meta is condi condi condi. How can you seriously come in here and tell people that in a condi drive meta everyone is forced to use zerker gear? In fact the best part of that gear is that it turns you into such a glass cannon that it forces you to actually learn how to play your class without dying so that you are even more effective when you get some actually good gear to wear.

I play how I want EVERY day. I must have missed the memo.

I play what I want when I want it.
I play most things how I want it, except for instanced content.
I am fully aware of the differenced between PvE, PvP and WvW.
I am aware there are meta builds, focussed on maximum DPS.
I am also aware there are times you need to “experiment” and as such I’ve ran my elementalist fire/water/tempest if my party was struggling to stay alive, or used Arms/tactics/berserker on my warrior if I lacked a PS warrior. It’s also why I have accces to healing food on my ranger, as well as 2 staves.

I have Power and condition builds for all proffesions except engineer and revenant. This includes a condi ele, and other semi usefull build I like to play. I have a bunker necro and abunker guardian, a support warrio an support necro, just because sometimes I do not wan to be full meta…. but just a(ny) player of a game.

Meta is powerfull if you can understand the concepts. You yourself are mopre powerfull also understanding there is an end to META. meta begins where you need someting the builds were made for. Meta ends if you need to be creative in makling a solution which is out of the box…

Meta is good. The ability to go beyond basic meta even more so. It creates a full player from a copycat, a copycat being able to deal max dmg, but still a copycat
And I agree: better you stole it good, then made it bad.

Old dungeon meta showed you needed different builds to optimize kills. swap;ping weapons skills and even traits was more normal then weird…

This final remark shows meta is boss dependent, not class dependant… but not only boss, also party dependant… whcih is something most forget,

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I play what I want when I want it.
I play most things how I want it, except for instanced content.
I am fully aware of the differenced between PvE, PvP and WvW.
I am aware there are meta builds, focussed on maximum DPS.
I am also aware there are times you need to “experiment” and as such I’ve ran my elementalist fire/water/tempest if my party was struggling to stay alive, or used Arms/tactics/berserker on my warrior if I lacked a PS warrior. It’s also why I have accces to healing food on my ranger, as well as 2 staves.

I have Power and condition builds for all proffesions except engineer and revenant. This includes a condi ele, and other semi usefull build I like to play. I have a bunker necro and abunker guardian, a support warrio an support necro, just because sometimes I do not wan to be full meta…. but just a(ny) player of a game.

Meta is powerfull if you can understand the concepts. You yourself are mopre powerfull also understanding there is an end to META. meta begins where you need someting the builds were made for. Meta ends if you need to be creative in makling a solution which is out of the box…

Meta is good. The ability to go beyond basic meta even more so. It creates a full player from a copycat, a copycat being able to deal max dmg, but still a copycat
And I agree: better you stole it good, then made it bad.

Old dungeon meta showed you needed different builds to optimize kills. swap;ping weapons skills and even traits was more normal then weird…

This final remark shows meta is boss dependent, not class dependant… but not only boss, also party dependant… whcih is something most forget,

10/10 nice post

BrotherBelial.3094:

Galtrix.7369:

General Health.9678:

Stu Grockalot.2937:

So I’m just wondering are the build/skills broken?

No they aren’t.

When (and even before) GW2 came out, I remember the hype about how the skills are so varied, and traits are so different that you can play GW2 any way that you want.

And it turned out that wasn’t that great a thing. When evaluated, the 600 different permutations had 300 really bad one and several thousand people had rolled those, giving them not only just a sub-optimal experience but a really, really bad one.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

However, you can’t play anyway that you want.
There are some builds that just don’t work. Some traits and skills that are, quite frankly pointless.

Under the new system there aren’t builds that “just don’t work”. If they didn’t work you wouldn’t be able to create them, log in as them and play the game on them. Have you got any examples of what you mean and in which game type?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

There are even some players, where all I see is the metabuild running everywhere.

And? Not sure what your point is. Players using meta builds? Surely this is a good thing? Only some players but you see them everywhere? Are you talking about guildies?

Stu Grockalot.2937:

unless you run the metabuild, you don’t seem to be able to keep up, to participate as much, and be as effective.

Keep up with whom? You may not do as much damage with a non-meta build or not heal as much but you should be able to keep up by pressing the forward button. Participation is on the 1 button and effectivenes.. well that’s the definition of the meta build. The most effective one. So this is a tautology.

Stu Grockalot.2937:

That to me, sounds broken

Well no, to me you sound confused about what the meta is and why it is. I can log in with my meta build and play the game. It’s working.

@ General Health Sorry, but you have no idea what you’re talking about. Instead of answering this guy’s question, you just confused him by spitting random opinions at him and avoiding his actual questions. I’d rather you didn’t respond to any future questions in the manner that you answered this one.

1. Yes, a lot of builds are broken – and by broken, I mean they just don’t work well enough to be viable. Builds that, logically, should be viable are not. This is coming from an experienced GW1 player that made builds of his own for years.

2. Berserker is the only viable build (outside raids) and will always be the only viable build in PvE. That shows you right there how broken the mechanics are. There are tons of different armor types, yet choosing any armor aside from Berserker gear produces sub-par results.

3. I really don’t understand how someone can defend the mechanics and say, “Oh, it isn’t broken”, when players use berserker gear and only berserker gear. If it were meant to be so, there wouldn’t be other armor options. So, both the builds and the armor system are broken, yes.

My sinister and carrion warrior’s says “Hi”.

And my mixture of beserker, assassain, and clerics elementalist also says “Hi”. She also states that she can run full clerics and be successful, she just prefers the mixture to kill things quicker.