Guild Wars 2

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

Discuss!

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content. I prefer the latter because it keeps people interested in the game and engaged. If we went the expansion route, we would have long periods of no content being released.

And considering that we are following a B2P model rather than subscription, Living Story is much more profitable.

Vol.5241:

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content.

I would agree with this…….if the gradual content was of the same quality as expansion would bring. If LS was gradually opening up more maps, adding significant things to the game (like a real story and not this shallow crap they do now) and be more than an AP and backpiece farm, then yes the LS would be ideal. But it not bringing the same content.
LS has to potential to be….but currently feels to me like they’re wasting it on weak additions just for the sake of pushing something out every couple weeks.

Vol.5241:

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content. I prefer the latter because it keeps people interested in the game and engaged. If we went the expansion route, we would have long periods of no content being released.

And considering that we are following a B2P model rather than subscription, Living Story is much more profitable.

It’s about the quality, not quantity, of content. Even if the Living Story provides the same quantity of content an expansion would over the course of months, I can’t imagine too many people would consider the quality to be equal.

For example, we have a new antagonist in the game in Scarlet. We know almost nothing about her. She shows up, ruins a party, then runs away. Her motivations for her actions are? I’ll tell you what they aren’t…presented in the game. The story being presented through the Living Story is disjointed at best.

Then we have the whole “filler vs fun” content divide. Traditional expansions can have their share of filler, but at least I’ve never seen anything in other MMOs as menial as breaking pinatas or burning effigies or riding in hot-air balloons. When you strip away the fluff from most of the Living Story content, most of it boils down to “click F a bunch of times”. If you think that’s the kind of content delivered in traditional expansions then you haven’t played many MMOs.

It does not matter HOW the content is presented.

What matters is the quality and quantity of the content presented.

I prefer the living story, but only as long as they can still provide the content that an expansion could bring, such as new races, new maps, new weapons etc.

Let’s just say I hope GW2 is two times bigger a year after this post. If they can deliver that with the LS, good. However, it seems they can’t.

I’d rather see Anet open up the rest of the current map before giving us Elona or Cantha. And I expect when they do gives us and expansion, it’ll be Elona and that’ll be after the Crystal Desert is opened up giving us a land bridge there.

dekou.6012:

Let’s just say I hope GW2 is two times bigger a year after this post. If they can deliver that with the LS, good. However, it seems they can’t.

^This. We’ve had almost a year of LS now and we still have the same zones, races, professions, weapon types, the list goes on. Sure we got some nice content, but it was either temporary or nothing tangible.

When they said during Eurogamer they wanted to do more in the current zones instead of making new ones, a part of me died.

Vol.5241:

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content.
snip

I think that is faulty reasoning by equivalence.

Expansions, as I think most people use the term, introduce new areas, new classes, and often new races. Living Story does none of those things.

Living Story =/= Expansion

I don’t think the game needs expansions, but I do think expansions are desirable. One or two Living Story things between expansions seems quite reasonable to me.

pdg.8462:

I think that is faulty reasoning by equivalence.

Expansions, as I think most people use the term, introduce new areas, new classes, and often new races. Living Story does none of those things.

Living Story =/= Expansion

I don’t think the game needs expansions, but I do think expansions are desirable. One or two Living Story things between expansions seems quite reasonable to me.

Living story i going to introduce races and places. So expansion pack is not needed.

Mirta.5029:

Living story i going to introduce races and places. So expansion pack is not needed.

Ah, yes…“nothing’s off the table”. Gotchya.

I think we need a little of both, honestly. Living Story is the “world’s” story, which could be used to lead up and in to the start of an expansion, which would be more of “our” story. That’s how I think it should be done, but that’s just my 2 cents.

Edit: Of course, I also feel we should have more going on concurrently for living story as well (Meatoberfest and Halloween festivities for example), but you all think I’m nuts. It would make sense though, I mean just because event “A” is happening in the world, doesn’t mean everything else is going to stop.

You guys are not comparing LS and expansions properly.

If Anet came out with an expansion right now instead of LS, we would have had all the LS content up to now.

When you guys think of expansions, I bet you’re thinking of new classes, maps and a lot of content.

Well what if it takes 2 years of work for Anet to come out with that kind of expansion? What if we had 2 years of Living Story to gradually push this kind of content.

Living Story hasn’t done anything like that yet because they’re working on it.

If I had to choose between the two, 100% of the time I would choose Living Story. Again, it’s about accessing content all at once or having content stream in.

What do you think keeps players more engaged and playing the game? Having several months, maybe years inbetween expansions? Or having biweekly mini releases that keep players involved in the game and interested every 2 weeks?

Vol.5241:

When you guys think of expansions, I bet you’re thinking of new classes, maps and a lot of content.

Actually I’m thinking of my character speaking. Crazy, huh?

I believe that without and expansion the game will slowly die.

Vol.5241:

You guys are not comparing LS and expansions properly.

If Anet came out with an expansion right now instead of LS, we would have had all the LS content up to now.

When you guys think of expansions, I bet you’re thinking of new classes, maps and a lot of content.

Well what if it takes 2 years of work for Anet to come out with that kind of expansion? What if we had 2 years of Living Story to gradually push this kind of content.

Living Story hasn’t done anything like that yet because they’re working on it.

If I had to choose between the two, 100% of the time I would choose Living Story. Again, it’s about accessing content all at once or having content stream in.

What do you think keeps players more engaged and playing the game? Having several months, maybe years inbetween expansions? Or having biweekly mini releases that keep players involved in the game and interested every 2 weeks?

I think most of their issue is that when they think of LS, their brain screams “temporary”, which was a big issue with LS. We are getting more perm content now, and we’ve been told to expect more of it to come, but a lot of people are just too jaded to acknowledge it, or believe it. Can’t really blame them too much though, neither side is innocent in its short sightedness.

Maybe not a expansion in the traditional sense, but i would love for Anet to start opening up new zones.

The game map is flanked on 3 sides by open space, ready to be zoned.

Then again, most of the existing zones, beyond those directly flanking a racial city and LA, i have visited maybe once. This so i can get the waypoints and such, and then promptly forgotten about.

The crazy thing is that there is a whole Hylek city in Sparkfly offering crafting stations. But with no TP or bank, never mind a quick travel beyond waypoints, it goes largely ignored.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vol.5241:

You guys are not comparing LS and expansions properly.

If Anet came out with an expansion right now instead of LS, we would have had all the LS content up to now.

When you guys think of expansions, I bet you’re thinking of new classes, maps and a lot of content.

Well what if it takes 2 years of work for Anet to come out with that kind of expansion? What if we had 2 years of Living Story to gradually push this kind of content.

Living Story hasn’t done anything like that yet because they’re working on it.

If I had to choose between the two, 100% of the time I would choose Living Story. Again, it’s about accessing content all at once or having content stream in.

What do you think keeps players more engaged and playing the game? Having several months, maybe years inbetween expansions? Or having biweekly mini releases that keep players involved in the game and interested every 2 weeks?

I think most of their issue is that when they think of LS, their brain screams “temporary”, which was a big issue with LS. We are getting more perm content now, and we’ve been told to expect more of it to come, but a lot of people are just too jaded to acknowledge it, or believe it. Can’t really blame them too much though, neither side is innocent in its short sightedness.

Yeah and it’s fair. The temporary content didn’t help the Living Story mission at all. They should have focused on temporary cosmetic changes rather than content, such as changing the world directly, like how we saw the lighthouse get destroyed or the lion’s arch statue get exploded by Mad King.

pdg.8462:

Vol.5241:

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content.
snip

I think that is faulty reasoning by equivalence.

Expansions, as I think most people use the term, introduce new areas, new classes, and often new races. Living Story does none of those things.

Living Story =/= Expansion

I don’t think the game needs expansions, but I do think expansions are desirable. One or two Living Story things between expansions seems quite reasonable to me.

I’d also say your reasoning that the LS can’t provide new areas / races / professions ect faulty. You’re basing your premise on the LS we’ve had so far, without actually reasoning why the LS can’t do any of them things.

There is literally nothing different in the potential of the LS and the potential of an expansion (other than box sales for expac). At the end of the day, they’re just two nouns for content updates.

Expansions have a purpose outside of merely just adding content:

1) Revenue – Box sales for a game generate revenue. That’s pretty much all there is to it.

2) Marketing – As well as revenue, the days / months before the release of an expansions can serve as an additional tool for marketing the game, as well as potentially generating renewed interest for those who have left the game.

If it’s just adding content / races ect, the LS can do that. The above just outlines what the additional benefits of an expansion would be.

So far the living world content is very short and doesn’t add very much.
They are just making existing content harder & take more time, how is that fun or expanding the game? I just don’t see new level 80 areas, deeper content, new classes and expanded role-playing, new skills, etc. without an expansion. The problem I’ll bet is most of the player base is already at level 80 and they are running out of things to do.

^ This.

12 char

An expansion would offer permanent content added.

Living Story offers the old marketing [edit for] ploy of “play it NOW or miss it entirely”.

The content is not the same.

Nothing short sighted there. Which of those can you go back and play? Which of those can you explore in your own timeframe? Which of those still offer rewards on an on-going basis?

TheDaiBish.9735:

the LS can do that.

Yes it can, but it won’t, that’s the problem here.

I wish ALL of the LS stayed in the game so I could catch up and get a chance to figure out what the heck is going on. I mean, I don’t know if it’s all in the game, I’m assuming it’s not. I’m just returning after a break and I’m so completely lost at this point.

I don’t know who Scarlet is, I don’t know why people are kitten ed off about her and I wish all the previous content was still in, just so I could catch up and know what the heck everyone is on about.

goldenwing.8473:

An expansion would offer permanent content added.

Living Story offers the old marketing scam of “play it NOW or miss it entirely”.

The content is not the same.

Nothing short sighted there. Which of those can you go back and play? Which of those can you explore in your own timeframe? Which of those still offer rewards on an on-going basis?

LS is supposed to make the world seem alive. It’s not perfect in the least, but some of it has to be temporary to achieve the desired result. Did they focus too heavily on at at the beginning, yes. That was their short sightedness, but they listened, and we are getting more permanent, and impacting things left behind. However, people aren’t even willing to acknowledge these changes, which is their shortsightedness because some of those changes are kinda nifty. Although, again, not all content is for everyone, so maybe there isn’t anything you like yet… Dunno

LS can offer us the same things an expansion could offer us, it does not have to be temporary or small. They can give us new maps (Southsun, Labirynthian), they can change maps some (new jump puzzle and poi in G. Fields), they can add more dynamic events including metas (Tequatl overhaul, Karka queen meta, Scarlet’s invasions), they can give us challenges to keep us on our toes (Liadre or however you spell it). It can give you the permanent features you desire in an expansion, they just took the wrong approach at it’s birth. They are correcting the course, just have patients.

I’m not against a typical box expansion though, as I said. I think they should do a combination of the two, but it just takes time. LS can lead up to our expansion, it can give us world events happening around the globe at various times, while the expansion gives us a sizable “personal” story chunk to continue.

I do not care how the content is added. I care about its persistence.

I have no problem with content that is added piecemeal.

I have no problem with content added over time. In small units. With or without a story connection.

I have a problem with a game calling itself an MMO that does not add content that is permanent.

“Living Story” in context of GW2 = temporary because that is how ANet decided to define it. (Yes I could go into pro/con of finances, business model, and development intricacies here – I’m a retired software dev.)

I am more than aware of the permanent changes that have been added. Most of those are content adjustments. That is the change they are weaving in with the temporary content they are continuing to offer. (Not going to say more on this or how I know.)

This has nothing to do with being patient. And everything to do with valid concern in the face of ANet’s “nothing off the table” marketing speak. (Broken record part of post.)

I am still looking for a sign that the visionary in charge of GW2’s direction in the future understands the core of what an MMO is.

.
(edit for typo)

It’s obvious that this game in particular needs expansions.

One day, Cantha & Elona must be included in the game no matter what! It’s part of the game’s Lore.

Just think how many decades would be need it to bring just one of that continents , piece by piece just using the LS system… … …!!

It would be like if you buy a huge 1000 jigsaw puzzle where you just received one piece of it when buy it, and all the other ones, one each 15 days!!!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

neol.5438:

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidBQxGQsSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5D5WARddM

Discuss!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

Vol.5241:

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content. I prefer the latter because it keeps people interested in the game and engaged. If we went the expansion route, we would have long periods of no content being released.

And considering that we are following a B2P model rather than subscription, Living Story is much more profitable.

The content can indeed be the same but for me it’s the negative side effects from a cash-shop focus that in my eyes is destroying this game that is the problem.

Devata.6589:

neol.5438:

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidBQxGQsSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5D5WARddM

Discuss!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

The cash shop is their child. It’s not going away until the very end of the game, which is when the servers go down and no one can log in anymore.

Think about how many people rush to “support the game” every 2 weeks when something is introduced. It makes them a lot of cash, and that’s why LS is where the interest lies for ANet at this point in time.

Devata.6589:

neol.5438:

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidBQxGQsSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5D5WARddM

Discuss!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

The cash shop is their child. It’s not going away until the very end of the game, which is when the servers go down and no one can log in anymore.

Think about how many people rush to “support the game and it’s amazing developers” every 2 weeks when something is introduced. It makes them a lot of cash, and that’s why LS is where the interest lies for ANet at this point in time.

Devata.6589:

neol.5438:

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidBQxGQsSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5D5WARddM

Discuss!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

The cash shop is their child. It’s not going away until the very end of the game, which is when the servers go down and no one can log in anymore.

Think about how many people rush to “support the game and it’s amazing developers” every 2 weeks when something is introduced. It makes them a lot of cash, and that’s why LS is where the interest lies for ANet at this point in time.

Skan.5301:

Devata.6589:

neol.5438:

I just felt forced to create this topic. Check out those link. Videos not done by me but I think the reasoning and ideas brought up could be really helpfull for both the community and the staff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidBQxGQsSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5D5WARddM

Discuss!

I think it does. But for other reasons. I think the gem-store focus is effecting the game in a negative way. (gold-driven, collecting mini’s is not fun, no barber but hair in the shop, temporary content to try to get you to buy items and so on). I am willing to pay for a good game and if the focus would shift to expansions for income I think thats possible. Of course they should then also really make the change. If they only release an expansion but keep the gem-store focus that its still useless.

The cash shop is their child. It’s not going away until the very end of the game, which is when the servers go down and no one can log in anymore.

Think about how many people rush to “support the game and it’s amazing developers” every 2 weeks when something is introduced. It makes them a lot of cash, and that’s why LS is where the interest lies for ANet at this point in time.

I know thats the reason but just because it’s hard to get a better world does not mean you can’t ask for it or try to get it. And they may keep the cash-shop (Would prefer if they took it out because I don’t trust them with it anymore) but I really want the focus for income to shift from the cash-shop to expansions.

Yes it is needed and badly…..Cantha :$

If there aren’t expansions in the works, a 4-month LS roll out of a large area would be nice, utilizing the LS to introduce us to the new content.

After the LS roll out was done, I would expect to be allowed to take part in MY story and how MY actions effect the area for the linear story arc.

Traditional expansions gate content and divide game communities in other games.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Traditional expansions gate content and divide game communities in other games.

Yes, because what Anet is doing now isn’t gating content and dividing communities.

The living story as we have seen is a far cry to the content an expansion would have had. In theory the LS works great. In practise they royally screwed it up.

GW2 needs an expansion more than any games released in the last 5 years.

Nuka Cola.8520:

GW2 needs an expansion more than any games released in the last 5 years.

Agreed but when should they release it? Do you think a good time would be Spring 2014 when games like ESO, NCSoft’ own WildStar and games like Destiny are released? Not to mention a WoW expansion.

Seems like it is a very saturated time to release any type of MMO.

Xcom.1926:

Nuka Cola.8520:

GW2 needs an expansion more than any games released in the last 5 years.

Agreed but when should they release it? Do you think a good time would be Spring 2014 when games like ESO, NCSoft’ own WildStar and games like Destiny are released? Not to mention a WoW expansion.

Seems like it is a very saturated time to release any type of MMO.

Spring 2014 is when this should be released or games like Destiny will eat a big portion of gw2 population and then Wildstar and the rest. I for sure will be out of gw2 when Destiny is released if its going as slow as its going now. If they announce an expansion for Fall 2014 that would be waaaaaaaaay too late and its not with their crappy LS they’ll be keeping players because their current “content worth of an expansion” has zero substance to it, nothing is added that makes you log in daily or even weekly

LS would be fine if the content would stay and not be taken away 2 weeks later. It’s bad for new players cause they end the main content and then realize that soo many things happened before then started playing and now there are 2 more dragons dead, and they didn’t even have opportunity to fight them.

Conner.4702:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Traditional expansions gate content and divide game communities in other games.

Yes, because what Anet is doing now isn’t gating content and dividing communities.

The living story as we have seen is a far cry to the content an expansion would have had. In theory the LS works great. In practise they royally screwed it up.

Some living stories will have problems that will need to be addressed. But compared to other MMO’s there is much less gating content and dividing communities.

Xcom.1926:

Nuka Cola.8520:

GW2 needs an expansion more than any games released in the last 5 years.

Agreed but when should they release it? Do you think a good time would be Spring 2014 when games like ESO, NCSoft’ own WildStar and games like Destiny are released? Not to mention a WoW expansion.

Seems like it is a very saturated time to release any type of MMO.

If they make a paid expansion. Anet should remove the gem store from the game.

Seisyll.5914:

LS would be fine if the content would stay and not be taken away 2 weeks later. It’s bad for new players cause they end the main content and then realize that soo many things happened before then started playing and now there are 2 more dragons dead, and they didn’t even have opportunity to fight them.

No, LS wouldn’t be fine, far from fine, 1 million years behind being close to acceptable fine. I want new regions, new dungeons, new weapons/skills, dungeons with more than 5 ppl… LS brings me two things, achievements i don’t give a flying ^%$% about and NPC’s to which you wp across the map, talk to them and enjoy an extremely poorly done and unskippable cutsceen. If this is what they’re calling “content worth of an expansion” then when an expansion is released, its better cost 50 cents.

Vol.5241:

No.

I think the content provided between an expansion and living story can be equal

Expansion = content all at once
Living Story = gradual progession of content

In the end we get the same amount of content. I prefer the latter because it keeps people interested in the game and engaged. If we went the expansion route, we would have long periods of no content being released.

And considering that we are following a B2P model rather than subscription, Living Story is much more profitable.

What you say is almost correct. However, the issue is that the living story stuff hasn’t been nearly on the level of expansion content as far as quality goes. Also, most of it has been temporary.