Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
Are raids good or bad for MMOs
On the basis of that personal experience, it’s why I have the opinion they are contrary and detrimental to what makes GW2 special.
So what makes GW2 special? Hiding in big blobs and letting others do the dirty work while you slack off and get the same loot?
(You can do that in the Raids too btw)
I respectfully disagree.
For many people (Myself included), raids are the progression that’s on offer in this game. It’s content that I can return to, week after week and constantly learn new things or try new strategies while having a ton of fun with my guild. It speaks volumes to the quality of the current raid wing that many of my friends are still clearing Spirit Vale almost daily, often without any rewards; simply for the thrill of a challenging hunt.
Certainly I can sympathise with those who are not interested in raiding, understandably a huge portion of players just want to relax and unwind. But what really disheartens me is the level of toxicity that’s arising from certain players who want something, but aren’t willing to put in the time and effort to earn it.
I don’t believe the raid team consist of only 5 Anet employees. …..
You know why they mentioned 5 devs used to create raids?
They had only 5 badges for the raid team. The remaining 295 devs are working undercover.
Most of the problems with the raid could be fixed by removing the countdown timer.
I must be foolish and misguided, I tried to use nonsense logic to see how raids even remotely impact wvw but couldn’t. Go ahead explain that one.
Maybe, if you used sensical logic, you would see that they don’t which is why the decline of my WvW guilds before HoT is a seperate issue and doesn’t have anything to do with my PvE guilds staying steady until HoT.
Sensical logic would be if had noticed that the thread was about raids not general HoT. Perhaps you should find friends that know the meaning of the expression "When the going gets tough, the tough get going ". Quality over quanity my friend – 15v1 is fun but calling it a night at 16v15……ehhh
Cool story again, little sista, but completely pointless.
What you are suggesting is what is ruining the game, not better and things would have better served if you had played another game that focused on challenge as part of it’s design philosophy instead of endlessly harping on it’s “lack of challenge” as a con, not a pro.
So you were pointlessly suggesting that I find a different game for challange….thats rather …..odd
Look, dropping all this snark we have been exchanging and just being straight up with you, not trying to make a jab or get you relied up or anything….
I, honest to God, have no clue what you are talking about or what point you are trying to make or what point you think I made that you are now discrediting.
If you want to list out what you think I said and what points you are trying to make, I’ll gladly respond.
But I am not going to keep playing this game of trying to guess just what the hell you are thinking.
I’ve been jumping in and out of other games to fulfill that challenge need. I enjoy trying to combine the keyboard with the wall out of rage. That stuff doesn’t phase me. I’ve completed pretty much everything to do within gw2. Me logging in consists on making some sort of innuendo based on what was last said in guildchat and then logging off within the 5 min mark. The last remaining things for me is pretty much to solo dungeons ( yeah I know thats already been donemany times by others but I held off).
The reason why this verison of raiding is good is because it instanced, its not forcing people who don’t want to be a part of it to do it. From the AMA they’ve already stated they no longer care about dungeons, esports is an underdeveloped joke, wvw and fractals have been neglected for years, and they are going to be rolling back the hot areas…
I hear you on the worry about toxic groups, but really they are already there. Just look what occurs when events fail – IF they fail because they are pretty much designed to be unfailable- the map just ends up playing the blame game. Maybe it will occur but maybe it wont – gw2 is prettttty casual.
Again though I am not imply that raids are hardcore extreme content – some groups are getting kills with less than the recommended amount and I believe there was one group that got a kill doing a green gear only requirement.
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
World bosses have the critical problem of being plagued by rookies, slackers, and other non-contributors of all levels and gear types. Anyone can walk up to a worldboss and scale it up. How often will the Shatterer fail because people refuse to WP on death when the WP isn’t even out of the battleground? And helplessly flailing at crystals with normal attacks? The encounters have to be designed to be challenging in broad strokes, but not character-challenging ones because they have to get the ratio of Effort-applying players and slackers balanced. And they can’t design for a specific number of players, either.
Raids give much better and more flexible workspace for the developers to work with – They know that the players who get in are willing to run, are geared in the proper-tier stats, are fully traited+skilled, and exactly the right number for the challenges designed. They can really crank up the difficulty.
How ungodly awful would Triple Threat be if EVERYONE who showed up had to do the jumping EXACTLY right to get ALL their kegs to the wurm heads in exactly the right time? You can’t design world bosses with any kind of precision – but you can design raids to have much tighter “competence tests”.
My only concern with Raids is that they are nothing more than beefed up dungeons with bigger team sizes at least when we talk about gear and strategy. Raids, at least from this outlook, are unhealthy because it begins the long trek that never ends regarding both player competency and player aggression against the developer.
What I mean by player comptetency is that players get better at content over time, no matter what, such as Teq which was hard (if not “impossible”) when it came out and is now so standard that it’s thought of as simply “an event one does” no different than other major challenges preceding. As player skill rises challenges have to rise and as challenge level rises generally speaking stat acquisition has to rise whether it be buried in the traits, overt in gear, or otherwise introduced. Ascended armor isn’t in existence because players wanted to grind something out but in fact a natural part of this discourse between dev and player and it always happens no matter the game; in games that allow mods for instance there is always a mod that makes the game harder by many times than the developer could release it.
Player aggression I mean the mindset that coincides with player competency. As players get better they get bored, they want more, but that more has to be fine-tuned to fit the level of competency and that is where player aggression comes in. You have people who are made that games get nerfs but you also have people that are mad that content is too hard or unobtainable by the common player; creating a medium between the two is wholly impossible because of player competency; dungeon paths that caused headaches were figured out and “sold”, content that required great coordination like Triple Trouble can now be run literally by a few guild leaders and a huge PUG, and so forth and so on.
Raids encourage the toxic nature of player aggression while also nurturing the positive nature of player competency but when faced with light vs. dark player aggression and it’s encouragement is always worse in my opinion.
But that’s my opinion.
Know your strengths. Focus on what your good at and what the game is about. I got plenty of games I play for various reasons and GW2 was just for chilling with people and having fun in a low stress environment. Now, I honestly don’t know why I should login, because the game is trying to be so many different things for so many different people that it fails at all of them and the development team can’t keep up.
GW2 has been lacking a proper direction or focus for a very long time now. The thematic mess that was LS S01 (while having its good sides) was a pretty good sign that ANet didn’t really have a clue what to do or where to go. And the game is full of such half-butted implementations or half-baked ideas (underwater combat, Ascended Gear/Fractals, the back-and-forth balancing of classes [I’m pretty sure Warrior’s Healing Signet was buffed to have 5% better heals and then nerfed to have 5% less healing about a year later]; to name the most glaring ones).
Of course, if all you searched for was casual and chilled play with other people, then I suppose that was kept for the most part. My point here is just that GW2 has had an identity disorder for the longest part of its lifespan, HoT and raids may just have made that more obvious.
What I mean by player comptetency is that players get better at content over time, no matter what, such as Teq which was hard (if not “impossible”) when it came out and is now so standard that it’s thought of as simply “an event one does” no different than other major challenges preceding.
Tequatl became easier with patches. Stacking conditions, allowing to deal critical damage, massive damage increase from Elite Specs and so on made Tequatl much easier. Triple Trouble is an example of an event that still has nearly the same difficulty it always had, because it’s mostly a mechanics fight and not a dps race.
I’m certain that a lot of the players who don’t even want to hear about raids can’t possibly deal with Simin or Lupicus in Arah. The game already had challenging encounters. They never bothered to understand those encounters and defeat them.
Raids encourage the toxic nature of player aggression while also nurturing the positive nature of player competency but when faced with light vs. dark player aggression and it’s encouragement is always worse in my opinion.
The entire mindset of “zerker or go home” has been in the game for a very long time, it’s nothing that will be enforced by raids. How much more toxic than that do you think Raids will be?
What I mean by player comptetency is that players get better at content over time, no matter what, such as Teq which was hard (if not “impossible”) when it came out and is now so standard that it’s thought of as simply “an event one does” no different than other major challenges preceding.
Tequatl became easier with patches. Stacking conditions, allowing to deal critical damage, massive damage increase from Elite Specs and so on made Tequatl much easier. Triple Trouble is an example of an event that still has nearly the same difficulty it always had, because it’s mostly a mechanics fight and not a dps race.
I’m certain that a lot of the players who don’t even want to hear about raids can’t possibly deal with Simin or Lupicus in Arah. The game already had challenging encounters. They never bothered to understand those encounters and defeat them.
I don’t doubt that there are players who do not care and will never improve but that is not the norm for most of any given population. Teq 2.0, before all those changes, was actually done regularly though. And you hit my point with Triple Trouble: It didn’t get harder but players got better because any encounter with a timer, and it has one, is fundamentally a DPS race. Whether the event just ends or you wind up dead after that timer expires is a totally different matter.
Human adaptability equates the natural challenge developers face. It’s always a question of outpacing your players but they will catch up; they always do.
Raids encourage the toxic nature of player aggression while also nurturing the positive nature of player competency but when faced with light vs. dark player aggression and it’s encouragement is always worse in my opinion.
The entire mindset of “zerker or go home” has been in the game for a very long time, it’s nothing that will be enforced by raids. How much more toxic than that do you think Raids will be?
This is a bit different.
Running around with one stat set may be popular and common, sure, but it isn’t the same as benchmarking content to compete against the behavior of players. HoT for instance forced many players at first to take defensive stats. That ended after a while and it was back to pure offense. As players get better content has to get harder in sneaky ways, creative ways, disruptive ways, and overall more brutal ways.
Eventually it becomes punishing players for not taking X as seen in other games and linearity in builds forms. You end up actually “needing” specific things, it’s not meta, it’s a requirement, and it shifts from player-side to dev-side behavior. Many examples include things like power creep where running raids “can” be done in exotics but realistically isn’t the basis; it’s just ascended or bust.
The runes get “better”, the traits get “stronger”, the choice pieces become “more obvious”; these are the literal realities surrounding most, if not all, of the elite professions. You want in? You take one. That too is a different form of power creep through serial escalation. It’s just how human gaming goes.
Raids are ok for people wanting more challenging content, but locking certain items (eg viper ascended trinkets) behind is not a great idea.
The entire mindset of “zerker or go home” has been in the game for a very long time, it’s nothing that will be enforced by raids. How much more toxic than that do you think Raids will be?
Last thing – off topic – no intentions to call out – That mindset is an unfortunate result to an absolutely terrible game mechanic ~ the down state~. Its also killed support roles.
Its kinda " Why bother use any other amor combinations when I can max damage, face tank everything, and be easily revived with no penalty?"
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
I can’t stand raids. I thought they are contrary to the open world focus design of this game. I thought challenging content like Triple Trouble and Teq(when it was first released) was the direction Anet was headed for large scale player encounters. Then they went ahead and released them with Hot.
It saddens me greatly to know we are going to get more raid content in exchange for less open world content, that was what really drew me to this game.
Are there stats they can see, of how many people do, and finish a raid? what % of the player population do them? if it’s only 2%… I got to ask, why? why put so much time into something that only 2% of the gaming population is every going to do or see.
Anet’s refusal to consider a ‘raid tier for the masses’ dooms GW2 to be like WOW was for years before Blizzard added LFR: for years it was known that only 5% of players ever finished the early raids and only 15% of players even went into them.
Arena net focusing on raid wings over Living Story is proof that Raiding is bad, clearly it isnt attracting the majority of players to activly commit to playing the kitten game for a start.
So many people have left because the story of GW2 was its focal point, its attractive concept and by removing that you’ve essentially turned it into another WoW clone with pvp, raiding, and dungeons just like every other mmo out there.
Its completed it journey into being a generic wow clone and just generally can only go down hill from here unless they seriously abbandon the raiding idea entirley and stop trying to please a 1% of people that ruin more MMO’s than help them.
I dont care if raiders complain that GW2 doesnt have enough raiding.
It was never intended “for” raiders in the first place, why the hell should it start being made for them?
This was intended to be “the” casual MMO, as posted on one of my other topics, ultimatley, pleasing a tiny audience so that “they” can be happy at the cost of everyone else is “never” worth the price.
Any MMO developer that can recognise that fact will be the one that shines above the rest and more than likley be the reason for the “WoW Killer” fantasy to become a reality.
In laymans terms:
Screw the E-sport community.
Screw the raiders.
And screw Raiding.
Rage over
Bows politley and leaves
Arena net focusing on raid wings over Living Story…
…is not happening. That claim is a complete fabrication.
Did most forget that HoT shipped with ZERO raid wings? Everything we got, the 4 new PvE maps, the story instances, the guild halls, the adventures, the new pvp gamemode and the new WvW map is all stuff that is NOT raid.
Now anet releases the raid AFTER the release of HoT and many think GW2 is raid centered and they only work on that? WTF? It is just such a small fraction of the content in HoT.
Maybe you have to realize that not raids are the problem but the rest of the game. We can easily asume that anet worked for at least one year on HoT and that’s what we got. 4 PvE maps per year which you have to pay for? Is that what you want? Keep in mind that there was probably little work done on raids in that time. Maybe the first wing was done. So even if they wouldn’t work on raids you still had about 4 PvE maps you have to pay for each year.
It’s not the raid that “wastes” resources. Take a look:
-How many even play the new PvP gamemode? How many like it?
-The new WvW map? Everybody knows the current state of it.
-What about adventures? Ok I guess, but there is no reason to do them after gold and they are disabled 90% of the time.
-Fractals? Swamp 24/7 is probably not what anet was aiming for.
-Guild Halls? Incredible amounts of gold/mats required for simple stuff and locking WvW upgrade too? Yeah nice.
-Mastery Experience “grind”?
-Full PvE maps closing?
-Only 3 new legendary weapons so far?
-Fractal backpiece?
etc.
etc.
Just SO many things either broken, bad, unfinished, thoughtless or unnecessary. Yes it isn’t a total disaster and some problems were already “fixed”. But saying that RAIDS are the reason you don’t like the game anymore is just plain untruth and you know it.
(edited by Neox.3497)
But saying that RAIDS are the reason you don’t like the game anymore is just plain untruth and you know it.
GD doesn’t take kindly to this kind of logic sadly, share it with people who share your opinion in the raid subforum.
Too many people in this thread alone are walking talking proof that all they can do is blindly use whatever buzzword gets attention. Last month it was eSports, this Month its Raids, April will likely be Casual or Hardcore take your pick.
Maybe someone will take a set against Hardcore Casual. I haven’t had my forum fighting gloves on in ages.
Fire up the Hyperbowl ma, we’re going to town!
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
yeah what sadden me the most is the gearlocking, the real endgame has always been the fashion war, with legendary weapons you could work on it step by step, whenever you want but with legendary armor lock behind raids i feel like if you want it you are forced to join a guild for raiding, login this day each week to clean the raid and if not you are supposed to already have 20+ insights to be taken in pug, the armors can’t be done solo. Not to mention the other skin in actual and futur raids and also ascended trinkets andback with hot stat only dropping in raids.
Problem would be solve if they make all the drops not accountbound and tradeable on the market.
To be honest when they annouce HoT and show the content the only thing i was unhappy to hear of was raiding because i knew it would be stressful mode.
(edited by Bebunw.8137)
Raids seemed to kill off the dungeon content in GW2. So for me personally – yes raids were bad since I much more prefer dungeons.
Raids are a hassle, I just dont want to bind my self to specific times for a game. Dungeons you could just to when you felt like, either with friends or pugs or a mix of the two. Guess thats one of the major reasons I hardly ever play anymore.
It’s also one of the phenomenon GW2 advertised itself against back when it was being released “Why are you waiting/preparing to have fun, instead of going out and having fun?” It’s the kittening core of the GW2 Manifesto!
We should have gotten more dungeons instead of raids.
Imagine for a moment we had an instant level 80 raid lobby (similar to HotM) where you would start out in fully ascended gear with whatever stat combination you desire and start your raid progression. Why don’t we have this? Because it would be too obvious how little content raids actually add to the game.
We don’t have your lobby because Raids are a goal in itself – you have to gear up and get ready for them – the process of getting ready to raid is relevant – because it’s a time sink – like most other time sinks Anet likes.
That’s pretty much my point. Raids are — compared to new maps — light on resources. They are used (and have been used, e. g. in WoW) to bridge the gap between expansions.
I don’t know how many people (apart from the core raid team) are actually required to add raid content and I actually wouldn’t mind so much, if we would also get other content, but LW3 won’t come any time soon.
I also think that GW2 missed a chance to set itself (further) apart from traditional MMOs. Neither dungeons, fractals nor raids would have been required to make the event driven open world content more challenging.
Putting (meta) events and world bosses on a timer was one of the worst ideas since launch. Players (or guilds) just need a way to force certain events to happen by just playing the game.
Megaservers could be the solution to having both an open world (MMO) as well as player actions that actually change this world (which usually requires instanced content). All we need is a “map instance browser” (instead of LFG taxi) and map instances that can be pushed from peacefull (defcon 0 = easy = less rewarding) to warzone (defcon 9 = hard = very rewarding), and map contribution (not instance contribution) that increases the reward level.
(edited by xlion.3065)
Imagine for a moment we had an instant level 80 raid lobby (similar to HotM) where you would start out in fully ascended gear with whatever stat combination you desire and start your raid progression. Why don’t we have this? Because it would be too obvious how little content raids actually add to the game.
We don’t have your lobby because Raids are a goal in itself – you have to gear up and get ready for them – the process of getting ready to raid is relevant – because it’s a time sink – like most other time sinks Anet likes.
That’s pretty much my point. Raids are — compared to new maps — light on resources. They are used (and have been used, e. g. in WoW) to bridge the gap between expansions.
I don’t know how many people (apart from the core raid team) are actually required to add raid content and I actually wouldn’t mind so much, if we would also get other content, but LW3 won’t come any time soon.
I also think that GW2 missed a chance to set itself (further) apart from traditional MMOs. Neither dungeons, fractals nor raids would have been required to make the event driven open world content more challenging.
Megaservers could be the solution to having both open world (MMO) content as well as player actions that actually change the world (which usually requires instanced content). All we need is a “map instance browser” (instead of LFG taxi) and map instances that can be pushed from peacefull (defcon 0 = easy = less rewarding) to warzone (defcon 9 = hard = very rewarding), and map contribution (not instance contribution) that increases the reward level.
You got them backward. “DEFCON 5” is peaceful. DEFCON 1 is “NUCLEAR WAR!” But I’d absolutely love a map instance browser to get this sort of thing going. And cross-map chat.
That said, there should also be some instanced content. The problem with open-world stuff is that there isn’t a set number of people, and it’s difficult to get challenge to scale right. The problem is when that content breaks guilds and is the only stuff on the horizon.
Arena net focusing on raid wings over Living Story is proof that Raiding is bad, clearly it isnt attracting the majority of players to activly commit to playing the kitten game for a start.
So many people have left because the story of GW2 was its focal point, its attractive concept and by removing that you’ve essentially turned it into another WoW clone with pvp, raiding, and dungeons just like every other mmo out there.
Its completed it journey into being a generic wow clone and just generally can only go down hill from here unless they seriously abbandon the raiding idea entirley and stop trying to please a 1% of people that ruin more MMO’s than help them.
I dont care if raiders complain that GW2 doesnt have enough raiding.
It was never intended “for” raiders in the first place, why the hell should it start being made for them?
This was intended to be “the” casual MMO, as posted on one of my other topics, ultimatley, pleasing a tiny audience so that “they” can be happy at the cost of everyone else is “never” worth the price.
Any MMO developer that can recognise that fact will be the one that shines above the rest and more than likley be the reason for the “WoW Killer” fantasy to become a reality.
In laymans terms:
Screw the E-sport community.
Screw the raiders.
And screw Raiding.
Rage over
Bows politley and leaves
Can you try to realize that focus changes? That one thing might change over time and become something else – perhaps not what it was intentionally intended to be?
That aside – GW2 was never “intended” to not have raids, or to not have hardcore content – that’s just something you chose to believe – and is false.
The casual MMO it was – and still is – and even if you argue it isn’t then guess what – things can change – and GW2 can change also. Are you mad because of it? If yes – then stay mad.
Your post says a lot about you and your mentality “screw everything that isn’t what I like” – I doubt you’re the kind of player Anet should encourage. I’m glad that they don’t – and I’m glad that they did exactly what they should have done in your case – took your money. Which you willingly gave – if you’re upset – be upset with yourself.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Arena net focusing on raid wings over Living Story…
…is not happening. That claim is a complete fabrication.
Anet has 300+ employees – 5 working on raids – the rest on other things.
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Imagine for a moment we had an instant level 80 raid lobby (similar to HotM) where you would start out in fully ascended gear with whatever stat combination you desire and start your raid progression. Why don’t we have this? Because it would be too obvious how little content raids actually add to the game.
We don’t have your lobby because Raids are a goal in itself – you have to gear up and get ready for them – the process of getting ready to raid is relevant – because it’s a time sink – like most other time sinks Anet likes.
That’s pretty much my point. Raids are — compared to new maps — light on resources. They are used (and have been used, e. g. in WoW) to bridge the gap between expansions.
I don’t know how many people (apart from the core raid team) are actually required to add raid content and I actually wouldn’t mind so much, if we would also get other content, but LW3 won’t come any time soon.
I also think that GW2 missed a chance to set itself (further) apart from traditional MMOs. Neither dungeons, fractals nor raids would have been required to make the event driven open world content more challenging.
Putting (meta) events and world bosses on a timer was one of the worst ideas since launch. Players (or guilds) just need a way to force certain events to happen by just playing the game.
Megaservers could be the solution to having both an open world (MMO) as well as player actions that actually change this world (which usually requires instanced content). All we need is a “map instance browser” (instead of LFG taxi) and map instances that can be pushed from peacefull (defcon 0 = easy = less rewarding) to warzone (defcon 9 = hard = very rewarding), and map contribution (not instance contribution) that increases the reward level.
The reason that other content is not coming soon is not because of Raids – it’s because they don’t have it done. Raids are done by a very small team of FIVE people – I doubt that’s the reason other content is not ready. I’ll tell you why it’s not ready – it’s because everything they put out is rushed. It’s because they failed to keep up the pace with content ever since they dedicated so much developer time to the China release( my opinion).
Open world can’t be made more challenging because people will moan and cry about it – just look at how HoT was received – with complaints on top of complaints from people who wanted a “hello kitty safe zone” while adventuring in the open world and found themselves under a lot of pressure.
Challenging open world doesn’t work because it also requires people to coordinate- which doesn’t happen well for a multitude of reasons.
You can’t do serious and challenging content in the open world – because you have no control on how many people join and how good they are. It’s OPEN – so you have to set the bar low – or people will complain (see pre-patch Gerent).
They went with “timer maps” instead of “push maps” because people were surfing through the LFG looking for maps “pushed to 90%” – then joining and completing – and repeating the process.
Look at how SW is done – you join one breach, then another, then another – so they tried to limit that via the timer. Is it a good solution? No.
Do I like the timer maps? No. Do I have a better solution? No.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Arena net focusing on raid wings over Living Story…
…is not happening. That claim is a complete fabrication.
Anet has 300+ employees – 5 working on raids – the rest on other things.
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.
Blizzard has a well know word when a game director wants something else then raid content: “that will cost us a raid wing”.
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.
People are going to think that because that’s the illusion ArenaNet’s currently creating. Every week they seem to talk about raiding, the upcoming wings or whatnot. Even HoT itself was marketed with a spotlight on raiding, which was obviously meant to attract the WoW players that quit back at launch, and being in a WoW raiding guild, it did work for a bit, but it was a major turn off for everyone that wanted an MMO that was different. Now after the AMA, knowing that the regular releases are so far away, it’ll be nearly a year of only having raids as new content. GW2’s current release schedule is mimicking that of every other generic MMO, which for everyone that hated it, is going to feel it.
They could at least put out one of the major reoccurring events as a distraction for everyone else, because this is going to be one long stretch of nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised to see SAB next month or the Queen’s Gauntlet, considering those two have been hinted at.
Raids are as good as any other content that meets costumers requirements.
The trick is to not focus on raids and keep investing development time and resources in all game modes.
“Blackadder: If you want something done properly, kill Baldrick before you start.”
Challenging open world doesn’t work because it also requires people to coordinate- which doesn’t happen well for a multitude of reasons.
You can’t do serious and challenging content in the open world – because you have no control on how many people join and how good they are. It’s OPEN – so you have to set the bar low – or people will complain (see pre-patch Gerent).
WHat sort of coordination are you talking about? Making individual encounters challenging doesn’t require coordination. It just requires revamping the math and battle patterns used by enemies.
Unfortunately, the game does encourage too much ‘zerging’, IMO – but the way to fix that is to spread the challenging content out. instead of concentrating it into a zergable mass (World Boss timers are probably the worst direction this game took).
Arena net focusing on raid wings over Living Story…
…is not happening. That claim is a complete fabrication.
Anet has 300+ employees – 5 working on raids – the rest on other things.
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.Blizzard has a well know word when a game director wants something else then raid content: “that will cost us a raid wing”.
And this applies how?
GW2 is not WoW. GW2’s content is primarily open-world. We don’t have and will never have more raid content than other types of content.
Raids are not the main focus of the game – nor the development team.
Sadly you and others like you prefer to live in the fantasy realm where GW2 is WoW 2.0. It is not. I never played WoW precisely because it is WoW and has all of its well known features. And I won’t play it. If GW2 was anything close to WoW I would not be playing it – I assure you.
I like how you and many others are overreacting and failing to see other – much bigger factors that took a toll on content release and content generation in general.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.
People are going to think that because that’s the illusion ArenaNet’s currently creating. Every week they seem to talk about raiding, the upcoming wings or whatnot. Even HoT itself was marketed with a spotlight on raiding, which was obviously meant to attract the WoW players that quit back at launch, and being in a WoW raiding guild, it did work for a bit, but it was a major turn off for everyone that wanted an MMO that was different. Now after the AMA, knowing that the regular releases are so far away, it’ll be nearly a year of only having raids as new content. GW2’s current release schedule is mimicking that of every other generic MMO, which for everyone that hated it, is going to feel it.
They could at least put out one of the major reoccurring events as a distraction for everyone else, because this is going to be one long stretch of nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised to see SAB next month or the Queen’s Gauntlet, considering those two have been hinted at.
From what I understood LS is coming back relatively recently. Yes – I understand people might hate this current format.
People also hated the LS format – when we got new stuff every 2 weeks ( back during LS season 1) – and people hated and complained and said it wasn’t enough time to play through it.
It’s very difficult to please everyone – and as it is with gaming the majority is always going to be somewhat upset. About something – about anything.
The real problem with GW2 is the lack of content.
Everyone is complaining about Raiding – nobody notices the lack of armor skins in a primarily cosmetic driven game.
Nobody notices that we’re getting outfits that are less valuable to players because you can’t mix and match them.
The core problem here is there is not enough content – and the main reason for that was lack of a coherent vision.
They’ve spent so much time focusing on “revamping and reworking” systems that they didn’t have the manpower to pump out more content.
That and the China release – which I assume took a huge toll.
I also agree – I don’t get why the Queen’s Pavilion isn’t a thing every year. It’s not like they have too much content.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Challenging open world doesn’t work because it also requires people to coordinate- which doesn’t happen well for a multitude of reasons.
You can’t do serious and challenging content in the open world – because you have no control on how many people join and how good they are. It’s OPEN – so you have to set the bar low – or people will complain (see pre-patch Gerent).WHat sort of coordination are you talking about? Making individual encounters challenging doesn’t require coordination. It just requires revamping the math and battle patterns used by enemies.
Unfortunately, the game does encourage too much ‘zerging’, IMO – but the way to fix that is to spread the challenging content out. instead of concentrating it into a zergable mass (World Boss timers are probably the worst direction this game took).
Coordination in having different people doing different things during a fight and doing them right. It’s hard to get.
You can’t make “challenging content” in the open world because a perfectly balanced fight of a 1 v 1 can instantly be negated by 2-3-4 more players coming in – boom – challenge gone.
So you do what they did and make “events” which require more people from the get-go – but if you go down this path you have to make them easy – because random people coordinating to do hard and complex tasks is well…difficult.
Spreading out means different things have to happen at different times – and people are just bad at making that happen.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Coordination in having different people doing different things during a fight and doing them right. It’s hard to get.
You can’t make “challenging content” in the open world because a perfectly balanced fight of a 1 v 1 can instantly be negated by 2-3-4 more players coming in – boom – challenge gone.So you do what they did and make “events” which require more people from the get-go – but if you go down this path you have to make them easy – because random people coordinating to do hard and complex tasks is well…difficult.
Spreading out means different things have to happen at different times – and people are just bad at making that happen.
I recommend you have more faith in your comrades.
When people talk about PUGs, coordination, etc. it amuses me for two distinct reasons:
1. Guilds are usually extended PUGs. Your friendlist generally doesn’t contain only people you know in real-life. Your raids generally don’t contain people you only sit and strategize with in person across a table. You learn to work together. The idea of this notion of “human greed corrupting everything” and “people messing up events just because” is really slander against anyone who isn’t in your inner circle.
You are essentially accusing everyone who you do not personally know and trust of these behaviors but also ignoring the fact that everyone you know and trust at the keyboard is essentially from the group you’re pointing your finger at.
2. People are excellent at taking roles. Only so many people can be at the boats in Tequatl before it scales up. This was always true and when it was figured out how many it was the community took to it no different than you would a simple lesson. It turns out that community drives everything; imagine if there was no way to communicate except in the game, no dulfy, no metabattle (pft), no buildplanners or reddit, and you will see that the exact same results will come to pass though it may take longer. The idea that there is some failure of mankind to coordinate and that somehow 10 people will do better than 100s because of the difference in values is really not true.
After all if 1/10 disobeys you lose 10% effectiveness, if 6/100 disobeys you only lose 6%, so the notion that there’s weight may be real but don’t mistake weight of responsibility for likelihood of incompetence. This is true in business just as much as it is in this MMO.
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.
People are going to think that because that’s the illusion ArenaNet’s currently creating. Every week they seem to talk about raiding, the upcoming wings or whatnot. Even HoT itself was marketed with a spotlight on raiding, which was obviously meant to attract the WoW players that quit back at launch, and being in a WoW raiding guild, it did work for a bit, but it was a major turn off for everyone that wanted an MMO that was different. Now after the AMA, knowing that the regular releases are so far away, it’ll be nearly a year of only having raids as new content. GW2’s current release schedule is mimicking that of every other generic MMO, which for everyone that hated it, is going to feel it.
They could at least put out one of the major reoccurring events as a distraction for everyone else, because this is going to be one long stretch of nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised to see SAB next month or the Queen’s Gauntlet, considering those two have been hinted at.
From what I understood LS is coming back relatively recently. Yes – I understand people might hate this current format.
People also hated the LS format – when we got new stuff every 2 weeks ( back during LS season 1) – and people hated and complained and said it wasn’t enough time to play through it.
Personally LS1 with the 2 weekly updates was the best time of the game for me.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Certainly I can sympathise with those who are not interested in raiding, understandably a huge portion of players just want to relax and unwind. But what really disheartens me is the level of toxicity that’s arising from certain players who want something, but aren’t willing to put in the time and effort to earn it.
There is toxicity from both sides in this.
I certainly sympathize with people who want a challenge, but GW2 wasn’t intended as that challenge. A very high number of players still have problems with the basics and their chances of running all three raid bosses are approximately nil.
A question then comes up as to precisely how many people have completed the raid wing? I suspect that proportionately to the numbers of people playing GW2 there are very few.
A company that targets spending towards a small percentage of it’s customers isn’t maximizing the use of it’s resources. Anet would be much better off creating a couple of new dungeons or fractals or even PvP maps.
What happened with the legendary armor was exactly what i suspected when
the whole raid discussion here started. Its always like that.
1. When you say that people only want hard content to get better stuff to show off
everybody just says : noooo .. we only want the challenge, not interested in better
stuff.
2. When it came to talk about the raids here in the forums, more or less every
second or third post was about “exclusive rewards”.
3. somewhere in the future (happened in other games) : if you dare to ask if
those exclusive rewards can’t be earned in other game modes, suddenly a lot
of raiders say : why the hell should we then play this kitten if we don’t get
that stuff ? Then we can also just play the easier content.
And that is the point where the toxity starts .. when raiders always think they
are entitled to get better stuff .. just because they do raids.
And don’t tell me legendary is not better than ascended .. heck in the actual
drought of bew armor sets even just an exclusive armor set skin for raids
would make me angry .. as long as it isn’t ugly in my eyes ^^
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Anet has 300+ employees – 5 working on raids – the rest on other things.
But now “they are focusing on raids over other things” – sure.
That actually makes soooo much sense and explains the worry about the resource being divided…. only 5 able to fulfil their job description :o
Everyone is complaining about Raiding – nobody notices the lack of armor skins in a primarily cosmetic driven game.
Nobody notices that we’re getting outfits that are less valuable to players because you can’t mix and match them.
FALSE!!!! we’ve been getting tons of reskinned armor!!!
Oh wait you were probably talking about armor that wasn’t aquired from the gemstore because thats a fun design – Build a game where end game is dress up but then only offer vareity outfits for gems
And don’t tell me legendary is not better than ascended .. heck in the actual
drought of bew armor sets even just an exclusive armor set skin for raids
would make me angry .. as long as it isn’t ugly in my eyes ^^
Legendary is not better than ascended…. its exactly the same stat level with more required energy to make. Before you hyperventilate and pass out, just want to point out a itty bitty tiny weeny detail that you kinda glazed over- legendary armor hasn’t even been released and based on previous legendary craft requirements its going to take most months for each piece. By the time they are finished you’ll already have multipe sets of asc armor.
most likely will be more butt capes
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
And don’t tell me legendary is not better than ascended .. heck in the actual
drought of bew armor sets even just an exclusive armor set skin for raids
would make me angry .. as long as it isn’t ugly in my eyes ^^Legendary is not better than ascended…. its exactly the same stat level with more required energy to make. Before you hyperventilate and pass out, just want to point out a itty bitty tiny weeny detail that you kinda glazed over- legendary armor hasn’t even been released and based on previous legendary craft requirements its going to take most months for each piece. By the time they are finished you’ll already have multipe sets of asc armor.
most likely will be more butt capes
I said : DON’T TELL ME. You should maybe read before you answer.
The QoL to not have to carry other armor sets with you is what still makes it
“better” in some way.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Challenging open world doesn’t work because it also requires people to coordinate- which doesn’t happen well for a multitude of reasons.
You can’t do serious and challenging content in the open world – because you have no control on how many people join and how good they are. It’s OPEN – so you have to set the bar low – or people will complain (see pre-patch Gerent).They went with “timer maps” instead of “push maps” because people were surfing through the LFG looking for maps “pushed to 90%” – then joining and completing – and repeating the process.
Look at how SW is done – you join one breach, then another, then another – so they tried to limit that via the timer. Is it a good solution? No.
Do I like the timer maps? No. Do I have a better solution? No.
No, it should be up to the players, how challenging they like the content.
You simply will not be able to survive in a warzone unless you are well organized.
If you are not willing or are not capable to do so then go to an easier instance of the map.
Obviously you need to be a careful, what kind of rewards you put behind those gates. The head armor of the revenant set was a really bad choice.
Joining a 90% complete map for the loot can be discouraged by simply making the loot quality depend on map instance difficulty, event contribution AND map contribution (think “multiply”). Also in my model there isn’t such a thing as a 90% complete map.
(edited by xlion.3065)
You got them backward. “DEFCON 5” is peaceful. DEFCON 1 is “NUCLEAR WAR!” But I’d absolutely love a map instance browser to get this sort of thing going. And cross-map chat.
You are right. I need to watch that movie again.
Coordination in having different people doing different things during a fight and doing them right. It’s hard to get.
You can’t make “challenging content” in the open world because a perfectly balanced fight of a 1 v 1 can instantly be negated by 2-3-4 more players coming in – boom – challenge gone.So you do what they did and make “events” which require more people from the get-go – but if you go down this path you have to make them easy – because random people coordinating to do hard and complex tasks is well…difficult.
Spreading out means different things have to happen at different times – and people are just bad at making that happen.
I recommend you have more faith in your comrades.
When people talk about PUGs, coordination, etc. it amuses me for two distinct reasons:
1. Guilds are usually extended PUGs. Your friendlist generally doesn’t contain only people you know in real-life. Your raids generally don’t contain people you only sit and strategize with in person across a table. You learn to work together. The idea of this notion of “human greed corrupting everything” and “people messing up events just because” is really slander against anyone who isn’t in your inner circle.
You are essentially accusing everyone who you do not personally know and trust of these behaviors but also ignoring the fact that everyone you know and trust at the keyboard is essentially from the group you’re pointing your finger at.
2. People are excellent at taking roles. Only so many people can be at the boats in Tequatl before it scales up. This was always true and when it was figured out how many it was the community took to it no different than you would a simple lesson. It turns out that community drives everything; imagine if there was no way to communicate except in the game, no dulfy, no metabattle (pft), no buildplanners or reddit, and you will see that the exact same results will come to pass though it may take longer. The idea that there is some failure of mankind to coordinate and that somehow 10 people will do better than 100s because of the difference in values is really not true.
After all if 1/10 disobeys you lose 10% effectiveness, if 6/100 disobeys you only lose 6%, so the notion that there’s weight may be real but don’t mistake weight of responsibility for likelihood of incompetence. This is true in business just as much as it is in this MMO.
1. No – guilds form a nucleus around which people of similar mindsets band together. Guilds are effective because they allow one to find people more like himself. I join guilds based on how many people like myself I find in those guilds.
My friends list is full of people I’ve played with and have proven themselves to me – both through personality and also in-game skill. My raid group consists of people I’ve done the raid with for hours on end until we got it down – that’s true – but I wouldn’t have done it if they weren’t like me. If I didn’t know it’d be worth it – that in the end we’d develop into a great team.
In the open world you don’t have that – there’s no camaraderie and no guarantees – see someone once – maybe never see them again – there’s nobody to build things with.
People mess up events for many reasons – spend more time out there and you’ll realize that sometimes people just don’t focus, or keep chat off, or are just messing about – all perfectly fine – but all reasons events can fail.
Honestly I’m not slandering anyone – but I don’t want to attempt hard content with people I can’t select, and then train with and build something together with. There’s no point in it.
You are essentially accusing everyone who you do not personally know and trust of these behaviors but also ignoring the fact that everyone you know and trust at the keyboard is essentially from the group you’re pointing your finger at.
Quite – exactly – I select people I group with and select groups I go into BEFORE I go into them. I don’t want to join random groups. There’s a process – going into hardcore content without going through it is just begging to have your time wasted.
2. I do not disagree that people can coordinate – I simply don’t want to be grouped up with the ones that are too busy, too distracted or too apathetic to do it.
There might be a time when they might step up and figure out what to do – but I’m not interested in nurturing these lost souls and showing them “the way”.
I’m interested in getting stuff done – I do my research and show up prepared for the stuff I’m about to do – and want to go at it with people that are exactly like me.
Please tell me the “if one disobeys” line after you’ve failed an AB because some person keeps CCing the bomb the wrong way. Or starts burning octovines before everyone else is ready.
Or after you’ve failed any event as a consequence of people not being able to read map chat.
It doesn’t take many to screw up events. If you play GW2’s open world this should really not be news.
All I’m saying is this – in a hardcore setting you want hardcore dedicated players. The more “open world” your encounter is the higher the chances a bad player will stumble upon it are.
With an instanced encounter provided you vet people and do your job – you can reduce those chances to 0. That’s why I feel hardcore content is not for the open world.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
And don’t tell me legendary is not better than ascended .. heck in the actual
drought of bew armor sets even just an exclusive armor set skin for raids
would make me angry .. as long as it isn’t ugly in my eyes ^^Legendary is not better than ascended…. its exactly the same stat level with more required energy to make. Before you hyperventilate and pass out, just want to point out a itty bitty tiny weeny detail that you kinda glazed over- legendary armor hasn’t even been released and based on previous legendary craft requirements its going to take most months for each piece. By the time they are finished you’ll already have multipe sets of asc armor.
most likely will be more butt capes
I said : DON’T TELL ME. You should maybe read before you answer.
The QoL to not have to carry other armor sets with you is what still makes it
“better” in some way.
Jokes on you I don’t follow directions of others regardless if wearing dorito, apple or other.
case and point :
Are you really sure about that QoL? I was going to touch upon it in the previous but thought it was kinda obvious.
Weapons can get away with stat changes because sigils have universal use – sigil of energy has same use for condi builds as power builds. Runes however do not. Using Superior runes of undead with power stats would hamper your effectivness as would superior runes of the eagle on rabid stat armor. Unless you are willing to carry stacks of runes for everytime you change stats its not really a qol improvement.
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
Have you seen some of the new games coming out? They are going for fun, not challenge. You got the raids you wanted. ALOT didn’t get what they wanted.
Clearly, challenging does not necessarily equal fun.
Now watch the casual player base, and their money, dwindle away.
I wish there was something positive here but I don’t see it.
Hard content alone will not sustain this game. Fun content will.
They’re sitting backwards on the horse right now.
Have you seen some of the new games coming out? They are going for fun, not challenge. You got the raids you wanted. ALOT didn’t get what they wanted.
Clearly, challenging does not necessarily equal fun.Now watch the casual player base, and their money, dwindle away.
I wish there was something positive here but I don’t see it.
Hard content alone will not sustain this game. Fun content will.
They’re sitting backwards on the horse right now.
Have you seen how long they general last until bordem sets in? Constant reptitive easy content =/= fun. Please do not take the cereal box definition of what fun is.
Focusing on the casual playerbase was a bad idea – they are finicky and are in a constant demand for instant gratification – Even after effort is put in all another game developer has to do is flash something shiny and BAM! there they go – it’s a no win situation.
Talking serious mode : Holler at me when one of those upcoming “fun” games hits the year mark and still is active.
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
Coordination in having different people doing different things during a fight and doing them right. It’s hard to get.
You can’t make “challenging content” in the open world because a perfectly balanced fight of a 1 v 1 can instantly be negated by 2-3-4 more players coming in – boom – challenge gone.So you do what they did and make “events” which require more people from the get-go – but if you go down this path you have to make them easy – because random people coordinating to do hard and complex tasks is well…difficult.
Spreading out means different things have to happen at different times – and people are just bad at making that happen.
I recommend you have more faith in your comrades.
When people talk about PUGs, coordination, etc. it amuses me for two distinct reasons:
1. Guilds are usually extended PUGs. Your friendlist generally doesn’t contain only people you know in real-life. Your raids generally don’t contain people you only sit and strategize with in person across a table. You learn to work together. The idea of this notion of “human greed corrupting everything” and “people messing up events just because” is really slander against anyone who isn’t in your inner circle.
You are essentially accusing everyone who you do not personally know and trust of these behaviors but also ignoring the fact that everyone you know and trust at the keyboard is essentially from the group you’re pointing your finger at.
2. People are excellent at taking roles. Only so many people can be at the boats in Tequatl before it scales up. This was always true and when it was figured out how many it was the community took to it no different than you would a simple lesson. It turns out that community drives everything; imagine if there was no way to communicate except in the game, no dulfy, no metabattle (pft), no buildplanners or reddit, and you will see that the exact same results will come to pass though it may take longer. The idea that there is some failure of mankind to coordinate and that somehow 10 people will do better than 100s because of the difference in values is really not true.
After all if 1/10 disobeys you lose 10% effectiveness, if 6/100 disobeys you only lose 6%, so the notion that there’s weight may be real but don’t mistake weight of responsibility for likelihood of incompetence. This is true in business just as much as it is in this MMO.
1. No – guilds form a nucleus around which people of similar mindsets band together. Guilds are effective because they allow one to find people more like himself. I join guilds based on how many people like myself I find in those guilds.
My friends list is full of people I’ve played with and have proven themselves to me – both through personality and also in-game skill. My raid group consists of people I’ve done the raid with for hours on end until we got it down – that’s true – but I wouldn’t have done it if they weren’t like me. If I didn’t know it’d be worth it – that in the end we’d develop into a great team.
In the open world you don’t have that – there’s no camaraderie and no guarantees – see someone once – maybe never see them again – there’s nobody to build things with.
People mess up events for many reasons – spend more time out there and you’ll realize that sometimes people just don’t focus, or keep chat off, or are just messing about – all perfectly fine – but all reasons events can fail.
Honestly I’m not slandering anyone – but I don’t want to attempt hard content with people I can’t select, and then train with and build something together with. There’s no point in it.
You are essentially accusing everyone who you do not personally know and trust of these behaviors but also ignoring the fact that everyone you know and trust at the keyboard is essentially from the group you’re pointing your finger at.
Quite – exactly – I select people I group with and select groups I go into BEFORE I go into them. I don’t want to join random groups. There’s a process – going into hardcore content without going through it is just begging to have your time wasted.
2. I do not disagree that people can coordinate – I simply don’t want to be grouped up with the ones that are too busy, too distracted or too apathetic to do it.
There might be a time when they might step up and figure out what to do – but I’m not interested in nurturing these lost souls and showing them “the way”.
I’m interested in getting stuff done – I do my research and show up prepared for the stuff I’m about to do – and want to go at it with people that are exactly like me.Please tell me the “if one disobeys” line after you’ve failed an AB because some person keeps CCing the bomb the wrong way. Or starts burning octovines before everyone else is ready.
Or after you’ve failed any event as a consequence of people not being able to read map chat.
It doesn’t take many to screw up events. If you play GW2’s open world this should really not be news.All I’m saying is this – in a hardcore setting you want hardcore dedicated players. The more “open world” your encounter is the higher the chances a bad player will stumble upon it are.
With an instanced encounter provided you vet people and do your job – you can reduce those chances to 0. That’s why I feel hardcore content is not for the open world.
I had a long response but it got too long addressing all of your points adequately so I will summarize my thoughts with one question:
“With an instanced encounter provided you vet people and do your job – you can reduce those chances to 0.”
Does this mean you’ve never failed a Raid? Or any event whatsoever so long as you had your team with you?
The answer to this question will settle all.
I have seen how long they generally last until bordem sets in. Constant repetitive easy and constant difficult content =/= fun. Please do not take the “my way or the hiway” definition of what fun is.
Focusing on the elite playerbase was a bad idea – they are finicky and are in a constant demand for instant gratification – Even after effort is put in all another game developer has to do is flash something shiny and BAM! there they go – it’s a no win situation.
Talking serious mode : Holler at me when one of those upcoming “fun” games hits the year mark and still is active.
I would but you’ll likely be gone to the first game thats comes along saying its challenging.
(edited by Tumult.2578)
I have seen how long they generally last until bordem sets in. Constant repetitive easy and constant difficult content =/= fun. Please do not take the “my way or the hiway” definition of what fun is.
Focusing on the elite playerbase was a bad idea – they are finicky and are in a constant demand for instant gratification – Even after effort is put in all another game developer has to do is flash something shiny and BAM! there they go – it’s a no win situation.Talking serious mode : Holler at me when one of those upcoming “fun” games hits the year mark and still is active.
I would but you’ll likely be gone to the first game thats comes along saying its challenging.
LOL the Trixx box nearly got you huh XD remember to tell that rabbit “silly rabbit trixx are for kids”
If thats the case both groups are leaving so then why should they bother to do anything? Cut their loss early to maximize profit.
Just food for thought: Been around waiting for increasing challenge content for 3 years but barely 5 months in with this completely optional content already has you holding your breath threatening to quit the moment its not your way – can’t imagine who they should give attention to XD
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
Challenging open world doesn’t work because it also requires people to coordinate- which doesn’t happen well for a multitude of reasons.
You can’t do serious and challenging content in the open world – because you have no control on how many people join and how good they are. It’s OPEN – so you have to set the bar low – or people will complain (see pre-patch Gerent).They went with “timer maps” instead of “push maps” because people were surfing through the LFG looking for maps “pushed to 90%” – then joining and completing – and repeating the process.
Look at how SW is done – you join one breach, then another, then another – so they tried to limit that via the timer. Is it a good solution? No.
Do I like the timer maps? No. Do I have a better solution? No.No, it should be up to the players, how challenging they like the content.
You simply will not be able to survive in a warzone unless you are well organized.
If you are not willing or are not capable to do so then go to an easier instance of the map.
Obviously you need to be a careful, what kind of rewards you put behind those gates. The head armor of the revenant set was a really bad choice.Joining a 90% complete map for the loot can be discouraged by simply making the loot quality depend on map instance difficulty, event contribution AND map contribution (think “multiply”). Also in my model there isn’t such a thing as a 90% complete map.
In your model there is such a thing – it’s right before the final boss/reward spawns.
Giving player a choice of how challenging they want their map to be implies you give them a choice of overflows- and we don’t have that.
GW1 had both normal and hard mode variants for maps and dungeons. GW2 doesn’t – I suppose they have their reasons for not doing it.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Coordination in having different people doing different things during a fight and doing them right. It’s hard to get.
You can’t make “challenging content” in the open world because a perfectly balanced fight of a 1 v 1 can instantly be negated by 2-3-4 more players coming in – boom – challenge gone.So you do what they did and make “events” which require more people from the get-go – but if you go down this path you have to make them easy – because random people coordinating to do hard and complex tasks is well…difficult.
Spreading out means different things have to happen at different times – and people are just bad at making that happen.
I recommend you have more faith in your comrades.
When people talk about PUGs, coordination, etc. it amuses me for two distinct reasons:
1. Guilds are usually extended PUGs. Your friendlist generally doesn’t contain only people you know in real-life. Your raids generally don’t contain people you only sit and strategize with in person across a table. You learn to work together. The idea of this notion of “human greed corrupting everything” and “people messing up events just because” is really slander against anyone who isn’t in your inner circle.
You are essentially accusing everyone who you do not personally know and trust of these behaviors but also ignoring the fact that everyone you know and trust at the keyboard is essentially from the group you’re pointing your finger at.
2. People are excellent at taking roles. Only so many people can be at the boats in Tequatl before it scales up. This was always true and when it was figured out how many it was the community took to it no different than you would a simple lesson. It turns out that community drives everything; imagine if there was no way to communicate except in the game, no dulfy, no metabattle (pft), no buildplanners or reddit, and you will see that the exact same results will come to pass though it may take longer. The idea that there is some failure of mankind to coordinate and that somehow 10 people will do better than 100s because of the difference in values is really not true.
After all if 1/10 disobeys you lose 10% effectiveness, if 6/100 disobeys you only lose 6%, so the notion that there’s weight may be real but don’t mistake weight of responsibility for likelihood of incompetence. This is true in business just as much as it is in this MMO.
1. No – guilds form a nucleus around which people of similar mindsets band together. Guilds are effective because they allow one to find people more like himself. I join guilds based on how many people like myself I find in those guilds.
My friends list is full of people I’ve played with and have proven themselves to me – both through personality and also in-game skill. My raid group consists of people I’ve done the raid with for hours on end until we got it down – that’s true – but I wouldn’t have done it if they weren’t like me. If I didn’t know it’d be worth it – that in the end we’d develop into a great team.
In the open world you don’t have that – there’s no camaraderie and no guarantees – see someone once – maybe never see them again – there’s nobody to build things with.
People mess up events for many reasons – spend more time out there and you’ll realize that sometimes people just don’t focus, or keep chat off, or are just messing about – all perfectly fine – but all reasons events can fail.
Honestly I’m not slandering anyone – but I don’t want to attempt hard content with people I can’t select, and then train with and build something together with. There’s no point in it.
You are essentially accusing everyone who you do not personally know and trust of these behaviors but also ignoring the fact that everyone you know and trust at the keyboard is essentially from the group you’re pointing your finger at.
Quite – exactly – I select people I group with and select groups I go into BEFORE I go into them. I don’t want to join random groups. There’s a process – going into hardcore content without going through it is just begging to have your time wasted.
2. I do not disagree that people can coordinate – I simply don’t want to be grouped up with the ones that are too busy, too distracted or too apathetic to do it.
There might be a time when they might step up and figure out what to do – but I’m not interested in nurturing these lost souls and showing them “the way”.
I’m interested in getting stuff done – I do my research and show up prepared for the stuff I’m about to do – and want to go at it with people that are exactly like me.Please tell me the “if one disobeys” line after you’ve failed an AB because some person keeps CCing the bomb the wrong way. Or starts burning octovines before everyone else is ready.
Or after you’ve failed any event as a consequence of people not being able to read map chat.
It doesn’t take many to screw up events. If you play GW2’s open world this should really not be news.All I’m saying is this – in a hardcore setting you want hardcore dedicated players. The more “open world” your encounter is the higher the chances a bad player will stumble upon it are.
With an instanced encounter provided you vet people and do your job – you can reduce those chances to 0. That’s why I feel hardcore content is not for the open world.I had a long response but it got too long addressing all of your points adequately so I will summarize my thoughts with one question:
“With an instanced encounter provided you vet people and do your job – you can reduce those chances to 0.”
Does this mean you’ve never failed a Raid? Or any event whatsoever so long as you had your team with you?
The answer to this question will settle all.
No – I’ve failed a raid – but because I could choose who I go in with I chose people that I could build things with. We kept at it and we got it down – but that only worked because I managed to find people of a similar mindset – and I did that before the raids were out by finding a guild with this type of people.
The fact that the team I roll with can fail or not is not the issue – the issue is I’d rather have MY people with me instead of random people who I don’t know and may prove unreliable.
There are teams out there that have the raid on farm – and get every encounter done on the first try – there are teams that can no updraft gors and 5 man VG.
That’s predictability – because of good players.
The open world is the opposite of that – because you can’t choose who you play with – and you can’t really invest in people – because even if you teach – next event – next overflow – you’ll get NEW people all over again.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”