Guild Wars 2

Is there anything about “Greatsword damage is increased by 5%” that sounds fun and engaging to you? It feels like traits are the biggest thing in this game that needs the most work. Traits are supposed to define builds, to redefine your character’s purpose from one spectrum to another. But at present, traits feel more like a checklist of things you’d need to take than an actual part of character building that you’d want to take.

Let me explain what I mean:
GW2’s skills are the backbone of your character, and they form the foundation for how you play. Traits are suppose to be the meat that covers the framework, traits ought to rewire your skills to accentuate what it is you’d want your character to do. All of that is supposed to happen in a fun and engaging way. Adding damage here and lowering cooldowns there does not make for exciting builds.

Now let’s look at some traits that do bring out the more exciting parts of your character:
When an aegis you applied is removed, it burns nearby foes.
Spirits can move and follow you.
Apply a random boon to yourself when you interrupt a foe.
Whenever a minion dies, it explodes in a cloud of poison that lasts for 3 seconds.
Mist Form, Frost Bow, and Signet of Water grant 6 seconds of regeneration. Damage and inflict chill and vulnerability to nearby foes while in mist or vapor form.

This is where the heart of your character comes through, and while some traits can do more to add to a build you have in mind. Especially the ele example used above goes a long way to promote build diversity. Let me make up my own example of a trait that opens up build diversity options:
“Create a poison cloud whenever you drink an elixir or place a turret.”
So instead of taking elixir or turret traits for a focused build, a trait like this will make one consider a mixed build.

So instead of having something like “Greatsword damage is increased by 5%”, why not let it be “Greatsword attacks cause weakness when health falls below 25%” It’s not the greatest example, but it’s far more interesting than a flat 5% damage increase.

Even Blizzard saw this hole their WoW talent tree design, so I don’t know why GW2 had to fall into the same uninspired trap. GW2 is a far more interesting game, with skills that have a lot of room for good customization and fun builds. I feel traits have a lot of potential to take an average turret build (which isn’t great atm) and open avenues for a lot of great gameplay choices. Turrets deal 15% more damage and have a longer attack range sounds as unimaginative as it is, and Turrets are self-repairing and Reduces damage dealt to turrets by 30% can honestly be rolled together.

Just consider what I wrote and think about it. If you look through your traits, do they feel exciting, do you find the options engaging and a pleasure when placed into practice? Do traits really aspire to their potential that could make gameplay as exciting as it could be? Honestly, I don’t think they do.

In short, no they’re not.

While i applaud the attempt, i fear it will fall on deaf ears at ANet. This because their focus seems to be on making it more about player “skill” at the controls than clever combination of traits and character skills. This so they can angle the game towards esport…

There is not enough options in traits most are utterly useless , hence cookie cutter everyone has the same build , skills syndrome . Which is totally boring , also lack of weapon skills to change is also a turn off ..

Elite skills are really bad ! example .. Rampage as one vs Avatar of melendru ? just lol

There are a few traits I look forward to building up to and that I think provide a significant boost, but most are lackluster at best. At least they don’t take up a skill slot on my bar.

digiowl.9620:

While i applaud the attempt, i fear it will fall on deaf ears at ANet. This because their focus seems to be on making it more about player “skill” at the controls than clever combination of traits and character skills. This so they can angle the game towards esport…

Sadly, you’ve made a valid point. With the e-sport pressure and getting the game perfect for PvP, I wonder if we’ll see any real trait or even skill overhauls. I do hope so though, it’s a strong system that’s yet to realize it’s true potential. It’ll take some work on ANet’s side and some testing, but I believe they can bring a little zest to the boring state traits are currently in.

I agree, some traits need reworking to be more interesting. I’d rather not see +% this or recude % cooldown that. They should be functional not passive.

On my thief, all but 1 of my traits are interesting and functional. The one that is not interesting is potent poison (+33% poison duration), mainly because there was no better option. I have 20 points in Deadly Arts, because I want the extra power and condition duration. As I do not use traps or venoms very often on my build and I am not specced for critical hits, the only traits avalable to me are Mug and % bonuses. I tend not to use any +% damage or reduced cooldown traits if I can help it, unless there are no other options.

There are a lot of great traits on all the professions, but I would like to see the % traits changed to something more functional, to allow us to create a larger selection of viable builds.

As to the eSports thing, I do not believe this should stop them creating more functional traits. They have already added some great traits, so why not go that step further and make them all great, or at least good. So long as they balance it right I see no reason why it cannot be done. To me, these % traits are a lazy design (sorry Anet, just my opinion). I hope they change them over time, as I feel it is one of the best ways to provide build diversity.

I feel like they pigeon toe you more than really open it up…. With so few skills available, I’d almost prefer a system closer to D3 where you have skills and you can pick between 4-5 ways to specialize each skill. But that’s semi-wishful thinking since it would involve an overhaul of the skill system.

what i dont like in traits and would like to see those completely removed and replaced is:

1) traits with cooldowns (usually 90 sec – roflmao), i would prefer permanent effect thing anytime
2) traits that trigger as a counter to what enemy is doing (this is just not working well with the “skill based game” thing, and is frustrating in pvp. don’t wanna sound pro, but l2p in this case, don’t choose a trait that will play for you)

also a major problem with traits is that they are bound to armor stats. to change traits you actually need to have completely different armor set… this is really bad and i would like to see armor stats being changeable through runes anytime. this would bring the rune prices up and would make crafting more desirable and profitable, but then anet needs to think of something to do with the transmutation stones from gem shop… i hope they find another solution for this.

many of them aren’t on my class the engineer. There are traits that hardly do any increase in damage, many that were fun at launch don’t function anymore, and many aren’t even affected by stats or have been so nerfed they don’t do anything worth it anymore might as well remove these traits altogether because no one uses them.

Some traits are interesting. Some aren’t. Ones that just change numbers generally aren’t, except for cooldown reductions. Ones that produce additional effects in particular situations tend to be the ones I like.

I definitely don’t care for the fall damage ones. To be more specific, I think the base fall damage should be reduced and those traits should be eliminated. I feel like fall damage is stupidly high in this game (by MMO standards) just to make those traits feel useful.

Then of course there are traits that don’t work right, like deployable turrets (in PvE), so some of those are mostly useless until they actually get fixed. Maybe sometime within a year after launch they will just put every programmer on squashing those bugs before adding any new code to other parts of the game, and then they will be working right. I can dream, can’t I?

Traits are horribly unbalanced. For example, Necro: Blood 5 point talent: Gain 5 seconds of regeneration when your health reaches 90%. Necro: Death 5 point talent: Summon a jagged horror when you kill a foe. The Blood talent can be useful, and is at worst never unwelcome. The Death talent rarely makes any difference and can be downright detrimental. While balancing a trait system is a thankless task, the trait system is not ANet’s finest work.

So many of the traits are either downright useless or at best only situationally useful. Would the talents be more fun if there were more meaningful options? Maybe. Are they fun as is? Not very often.

Necro trait lines make my head hurt.

Well, most of them do, to be honest.

I think that the Crack Shot trait from the Arms line (level 20 #7) is a lot of fun. It has completely changed my style of play as it has added new depth to my characters strategy. Sure, that might be an exception but at least one of us has found at least one trait to be fun.

The original conception of traits back before the betas was interesting and seemed like it would allow for real customization. Too bad they didn’t stick with it and went for the rather lackluster system we have now instead.

Traits are more important than gear. I like this.

A lot of traits are boring. That’s actually ok with me as long as there are some good choices.

The biggest problem is so many traits don’t work reliably. They need to get the system working well before they consider revamping the traits to be more interesting.

Azjenco.9425:

Traits are supposed to define builds, to redefine your character’s purpose from one spectrum to another. But at present, traits feel more like a checklist of things you’d need to take than an actual part of character building that you’d want to take.

Let me explain what I mean:
GW2’s skills are the backbone of your character, and they form the foundation for how you play. Traits are suppose to be the meat that covers the framework, traits ought to rewire your skills to accentuate what it is you’d want your character to do. All of that is supposed to happen in a fun and engaging way. Adding damage here and lowering cooldowns there does not make for exciting builds.

Wow, this is an amazing post. I agree with you 100% fully. I could not have put it in better words.

Khairos.3890:

Azjenco.9425:

Traits are supposed to define builds, to redefine your character’s purpose from one spectrum to another. But at present, traits feel more like a checklist of things you’d need to take than an actual part of character building that you’d want to take.

Let me explain what I mean:
GW2’s skills are the backbone of your character, and they form the foundation for how you play. Traits are suppose to be the meat that covers the framework, traits ought to rewire your skills to accentuate what it is you’d want your character to do. All of that is supposed to happen in a fun and engaging way. Adding damage here and lowering cooldowns there does not make for exciting builds.

Wow, this is an amazing post. I agree with you 100% fully. I could not have put it in better words.

Much appreciated, and so far it seems a lot of players agree that traits require a bit of an overhaul. I really feel that a constructive discussion will raise awareness, and with a bit of a nudge, ANet will certain improve on this promising, yet severely underutilized system.

I’ve only really got to a high level on a Mesmer so I can only speak about them but our traits can dramitically change the way you play and some pretty good unique options available. So maybe it’s just some classes which have boring traits and need working on.

There are some classes with uninspired trait lines. However, I think you are over extrapolating the problem.

I agree that there’s a lot of uninteresting traits. I always wonder: why get a +5% damage boost trait or a +5% precision boost trait, if attributes tied to trait lines exist exactly for that purpose? If you want more power, don’t you add points into the first traitline? If you want more precision, don’t you add points into the second traitline?

Decrypter.1785:

There is not enough options in traits most are utterly useless , hence cookie cutter everyone has the same build , skills syndrome . Which is totally boring , also lack of weapon skills to change is also a turn off ..

Elite skills are really bad ! example .. Rampage as one vs Avatar of melendru ? just lol

Pretty much this. In an attempt to make the game more accessible, they threw the free form building that was a trademark of gw1 overboard, and with it went a great deal of customizability and depth.

Also, elite skills right now are a horrible design failure. If you look at it from a pve standpoint, there really are none that come close to the warrior’s signet of rage (5 might, fury, and swiftness, all with a base 50% uptime that can still be traited), racial elites are all worthless, and some classes might as well unbind their elite skill key completely, engineers for example get total crap only, and eles also get the short end of the stick. But that is another matter completely.

Honestly, I’d rather have +damage% traits than a bunch of near-meaningless, situational traits (like in WoW). Even if it’s boring, I’d rather be picking traits that matter instead of just closing my eyes and randomly picking because they all don’t matter.

That’s not to say GW2 traits are anywhere close to being as boring as talents in WoW, but there are still quite a few that are just pointless. If they actually reworked all of the traits to be interesting and useful then I would be okay with ditching bonus damage traits. But it just seems like a lot of time and effort that could be put towards more important issues (how about we actually get all of the traits WORKING before we start changing them?)

The lack of flexibility in skill choices, because of weapon skills and fixed slots is increased by the trait system’s failure to deliver more flavour and in fact makes it worse.

The trait system also has a poor UI and that doesn’t help either.

So definitely more a frustration or annoyance than fun.

Vorch.2985:

There are some classes with uninspired trait lines. However, I think you are over extrapolating the problem.

How so? You’re not really giving me a very compelling counterpoint in your statement. I’ve looked over all traits, and all trait lines have cooldown and damage changers. How can anyone argue in favor of these?

I’m sure ANet want traits to feel exciting and it’s also been mentioned that they want traits to define your character, make it your own, so you can say This is my Guardian and someone with their own Guardian will really see a difference in playstyles between his and yours. Cooldowns and damage changers don’t really promote this ideal, and it certainly doesn’t make you feel special or unique in the way traits ought to.

Blacksarevok.8104:

But it just seems like a lot of time and effort that could be put towards more important issues (how about we actually get all of the traits WORKING before we start changing them?)

I don’t really see the point of them fixing traits, then taking them out and putting in new traits that could potentially be busted…
Just remove the traits that don’t feel right, and make them work right off the bat.

I gave it a bit of thought, and an interesting idea struck me. Why not have traits have two effects, one with an active change and another with a more passive effect.

To give an example, take the “Greatsword damage is increased by 5%” trait. That will be the passive effect, and add “Greatsword attacks cause weakness when health falls below 25%” as the more discernible primary effect.
To give another example, “Signets recharge 20% faster”, which would be a secondary passive bonus, but as a primary active effect it would change per profession. So for instance, while for the guardian that trait might be “Gain 5s protection when using a signet”, for a mesmer it might be *"Create a clone when using a signet".

This way traits will feel as if they have a dual layered purpose. Interestingly enough, there are already a few traits with two effects; the guardian trait Honorable Shield comes to mind, although it’s not a 100% as I described in my example, it still feels more interesting than having either the one bonus or just the other.

I’m not sure what ANet can come up with, but a lot of people agree (probably some ANet employees included) that traits feel underutilized. The system definitely hasn’t reached its full potential.

As long as I have a trait that lets me survive half my falling damage and cause explosions all around me whenever it kicks in, I’d say there’s certainly a possibility for traits to be fun, depending on what you’re doing.

However, half of all trait slots in a single line are not only modular (ie; can be expanded at a later date by ANet with ease), but can also be swapped for something else on the fly. In that respect, I greatly appreciate that I can fiddle with my build with ease – and that ability alone is fun for me. Swapping around those traits that can’t be changed in the above manner is easy and relatively cheap as well.

Could traits be more ‘fun’? That’s too subjective a question to ask to actually get a meaningful response for. Everyone’s going to have a different answer and everyone is simultaneously right in their eyes and wrong in the eyes of others. Could traits be more varied? Sure. Could traits be added that provide more than just damage buffs? Yeah. Could traits be added that are more universally ‘fun’? Well, no.

I like the traits on my Ranger and my Warrior. I like traits that grant me better movement, let me do things faster, decrease cooldown on powers I like and such, along with damage boosts. I also don’t mind dropping points in a less popularly optimal area to get a trait I want.

For my Warrior I have:

Reckless Dodge – Berserker’s Power Building Momentum – Slashing Greatsword
Precise Strikes – Furious Speed – Critical Burst – Forceful Greatsword
Versatile Rage – Warrior’s Sprint – Fast Hands – Signet Mastery – Versatile Power – Sweet Revenge

For my Ranger I have:
Opening Strike – Beastmaster’s Bond – Alpha Training – Piercing Arrows – Precise Strike – Remorseless
Tail Wind – Agility Training – Furious Grip – Quick Draw
Natural Vigor – Vigorous Renewal – Companions Defense – Martial Mastery

I enjoy playing both those characters a lot, which is why they’re at level 80. The traits/lines I picked fit how I enjoy playing, and in selecting them they made the character play the way I want it to, so they achieve the purpose of making the character feel like my own. If some level of additional doo-dad was to be added to existing traits I wouldn’t mind. But I wouldn’t want to give up my traits for something others feel is more fun.

I think the better path would be to add new classes with different traits and/or add more possible traits for classes. Nothing is going to please everyone, and taking away or changing something some players like to replace it with something you hope someone else likes has never seemed like a good idea in a game. It doesn’t really cost much if any more to keep things you have and add new things rather than throw things away and replace then with new things.

I really love the way traits contribute to elementalist d/d playstyle. That said, it’s really just one combination of them that works best, so it does seem to me that eles are sort of stuck in this build if they want to maximize their effectiveness, which is a problem. My ranger is in his 30s and I’ve lost interest in leveling him because nothing about the traits make me excited about trying some theorycrafting on him.