Guild Wars 2

Diablo 2 10years, gw1 8 years, Super Mario brothers still play to this day, my new recorded is 6:12min.

Its just this game.

Arghore.8340:

saalle.4623:

Zackie.8923:

maybe we grew up

That is accurate.I think we are just growing up and are less interested in games.When i was a kid i played lots of games (not just MMO’s).I dont play much any kind of game now.I still like to play them but its not same feeling as before.Eventually we will get to some age where we wont feel like playing games at all and we will quit.Its natural thing to happen.

I happen to play with some 60+ friends all the time, perhaps it’s cuz they retired, but really. There is no ‘natural thing’ to happen, it’s just some sort of peer pressure you either give into or not! …

I’m 52 now. I’ll be playing games till my arms fall off.

Vayne.8563:

Arghore.8340:

saalle.4623:

Zackie.8923:

maybe we grew up

That is accurate.I think we are just growing up and are less interested in games.When i was a kid i played lots of games (not just MMO’s).I dont play much any kind of game now.I still like to play them but its not same feeling as before.Eventually we will get to some age where we wont feel like playing games at all and we will quit.Its natural thing to happen.

I happen to play with some 60+ friends all the time, perhaps it’s cuz they retired, but really. There is no ‘natural thing’ to happen, it’s just some sort of peer pressure you either give into or not! …

I’m 52 now. I’ll be playing games till my arms fall off.

I’m nowhere near that (some friend are though), but just pointing out to the teens that just because you do something as ‘a kid’, growing up doesn’t mean you stop doing the things you did as a kid. Heck, the most important things in live you will just keep doing, like breathing, drinking, eating, sleeping and obviously gaming ^^

Arghore.8340:

Vayne.8563:

Arghore.8340:

saalle.4623:

Zackie.8923:

maybe we grew up

That is accurate.I think we are just growing up and are less interested in games.When i was a kid i played lots of games (not just MMO’s).I dont play much any kind of game now.I still like to play them but its not same feeling as before.Eventually we will get to some age where we wont feel like playing games at all and we will quit.Its natural thing to happen.

I happen to play with some 60+ friends all the time, perhaps it’s cuz they retired, but really. There is no ‘natural thing’ to happen, it’s just some sort of peer pressure you either give into or not! …

I’m 52 now. I’ll be playing games till my arms fall off.

I’m nowhere near that (some friend are though), but just pointing out to the teens that just because you do something as ‘a kid’, growing up doesn’t mean you stop doing the things you did as a kid. Heck, the most important things in live you will just keep doing, like breathing, drinking, eating, sleeping and obviously gaming ^^

I’m probably the first generation that grew up with games. To me games are just a part of life. I’ve gamed every since I can remember.

It’s as natural for me as it was for my parents to watch TV.

Vayne.8563:

I just typed a long, awesome response, had to relog and lost it all. I really REALLY hate this forums sometimes.

I ctrl+c all of my posts before I hit Reply just in case it makes me relog. That way I just pull up that forum and then ctrl+v my response back in.

It has been useful on a number of occasions and now I just do it out of habit.

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

Draknar.5748:

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

Thats untrue, you can never get bored of an MMORPGs if you’ve enjoyed it in the past.
most people enjoy progression and exploring a new game because it’s fascinating and enjoyable. It gets boring when there is nothing new anymore, which you can fix by playing a new mmorpg that has newer things that you haven’t experienced before. The feeling of progression and new experiences never gets old.

Draknar.5748:

Vayne.8563:

I just typed a long, awesome response, had to relog and lost it all. I really REALLY hate this forums sometimes.

I ctrl+c all of my posts before I hit Reply just in case it makes me relog. That way I just pull up that forum and then ctrl+v my response back in.

It has been useful on a number of occasions and now I just do it out of habit.

Thanks for reminding me. I used to do it but you know…they say memory is the second thing to go.

Can’t remember for the life of me what the first thing is.

Draknar.5748:

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

I think i’m also bored with fighting masses of mobs and even more mobs. Thats why
really most of the time i go harvesting these days .. haven’t even finished part 3 of
the actual LS and not even started part 4.

Maybe also one of the reasons that i really would like to have housing so there is
something else to do beside fighting and more fighting.

pigdog.9215:

Draknar.5748:

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

Thats untrue, you can never get bored of an MMORPG if you’ve enjoyed it in the past.
most people enjoy progression and exploring a new game because it’s fascinating and enjoyable. It gets boring when there is nothing new anymore, which you can fix by playing a new mmorpg that has newer things that you haven’t experienced before. People who dont play MMORPGS anymore that i know only say its too time consuming or they arent interested in those types of games anymore. The feeling of progression and new experiences never gets old.

Well it’s obviously true for the poster. You just have a different experience.

I’ve played so many MMOs that I dont’ find most of them enjoyable, particularly if they have like elves and dwarves in them. They’re just so played out. I don’t mind leveling or progressing, but I don’t think I could ever go back to the old quest hub, wall of text system.

In fact, I now find all linear questing games intolerable.

Vayne.8563:

pigdog.9215:

Draknar.5748:

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

Thats untrue, you can never get bored of an MMORPG if you’ve enjoyed it in the past.
most people enjoy progression and exploring a new game because it’s fascinating and enjoyable. It gets boring when there is nothing new anymore, which you can fix by playing a new mmorpg that has newer things that you haven’t experienced before. People who dont play MMORPGS anymore that i know only say its too time consuming or they arent interested in those types of games anymore. The feeling of progression and new experiences never gets old.

Well it’s obviously true for the poster. You just have a different experience.

I’ve played so many MMOs that I dont’ find most of them enjoyable, particularly if they have like elves and dwarves in them. They’re just so played out. I don’t mind leveling or progressing, but I don’t think I could ever go back to the old quest hub, wall of text system.

In fact, I now find all linear questing games intolerable.

Exactly, which is why i said you can never get old of MMORPGS, because new ones bring newer features that are interesting. Example is GW2, its action combat was a breath of fresh air from the classic style used in WoW. You can get bored of certain games but u need to understand you cant of the genre. You must be bored of the mmorpgs that you’ve played so far, trust me there are plenty new better ones out/coming out.

pigdog.9215:

Vayne.8563:

pigdog.9215:

Draknar.5748:

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

Thats untrue, you can never get bored of an MMORPG if you’ve enjoyed it in the past.
most people enjoy progression and exploring a new game because it’s fascinating and enjoyable. It gets boring when there is nothing new anymore, which you can fix by playing a new mmorpg that has newer things that you haven’t experienced before. People who dont play MMORPGS anymore that i know only say its too time consuming or they arent interested in those types of games anymore. The feeling of progression and new experiences never gets old.

Well it’s obviously true for the poster. You just have a different experience.

I’ve played so many MMOs that I dont’ find most of them enjoyable, particularly if they have like elves and dwarves in them. They’re just so played out. I don’t mind leveling or progressing, but I don’t think I could ever go back to the old quest hub, wall of text system.

In fact, I now find all linear questing games intolerable.

Exactly, which is why i said you can never get old of MMORPGS, because new ones bring newer features that are interesting. Example is GW2, its action combat was a breath of fresh air from the classic style used in WoW. You can get bored of certain games but u need to understand you cant of the genre. You must be bored of the mmorpgs that you’ve played so far, trust me there are plenty new better ones out/coming out.

Tried ESO, couldn’t pay it. Tried Wildstar couldn’t play it. Haven’t tried Arch Age, but I’ve watched videos and know it’s not for me. I’m bored of the genre as it stood. I used to like aspects of it that I’ve grown beyond.

Vayne.8563:

pigdog.9215:

Vayne.8563:

pigdog.9215:

Draknar.5748:

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

Thats untrue, you can never get bored of an MMORPG if you’ve enjoyed it in the past.
most people enjoy progression and exploring a new game because it’s fascinating and enjoyable. It gets boring when there is nothing new anymore, which you can fix by playing a new mmorpg that has newer things that you haven’t experienced before. People who dont play MMORPGS anymore that i know only say its too time consuming or they arent interested in those types of games anymore. The feeling of progression and new experiences never gets old.

Well it’s obviously true for the poster. You just have a different experience.

I’ve played so many MMOs that I dont’ find most of them enjoyable, particularly if they have like elves and dwarves in them. They’re just so played out. I don’t mind leveling or progressing, but I don’t think I could ever go back to the old quest hub, wall of text system.

In fact, I now find all linear questing games intolerable.

Exactly, which is why i said you can never get old of MMORPGS, because new ones bring newer features that are interesting. Example is GW2, its action combat was a breath of fresh air from the classic style used in WoW. You can get bored of certain games but u need to understand you cant of the genre. You must be bored of the mmorpgs that you’ve played so far, trust me there are plenty new better ones out/coming out.

Tried ESO, couldn’t pay it. Tried Wildstar couldn’t play it. Haven’t tried Arch Age, but I’ve watched videos and know it’s not for me. I’m bored of the genre as it stood. I used to like aspects of it that I’ve grown beyond.

Just wait for newer ones to come out, i know in the future they’ll be extremely immersive MMORPGS, take a look at Black Desert for one. Imagine the kind of MMORPG in 10 years? i know it’ll have so many features that i couldn’t even imagine. It just takes time for games to improve, in all genres.

pigdog.9215:

Vayne.8563:

pigdog.9215:

Vayne.8563:

pigdog.9215:

Draknar.5748:

pigdog.9215:

You can never get bored of MMORPGS but only get bored of the game. It’s arenanets responsibility to keep people interested in the game, they should just release expansions so they get money to support the game. Im kinda bored of the game but keep playing because i hope it’ll get better.

You can totally get bored of MMORPGs….

You can get bored of the whole concept of leveling up characters, doing quests, dungeons, getting gear, etc. There are plenty of people who are bored of the genre.

Thats untrue, you can never get bored of an MMORPG if you’ve enjoyed it in the past.
most people enjoy progression and exploring a new game because it’s fascinating and enjoyable. It gets boring when there is nothing new anymore, which you can fix by playing a new mmorpg that has newer things that you haven’t experienced before. People who dont play MMORPGS anymore that i know only say its too time consuming or they arent interested in those types of games anymore. The feeling of progression and new experiences never gets old.

Well it’s obviously true for the poster. You just have a different experience.

I’ve played so many MMOs that I dont’ find most of them enjoyable, particularly if they have like elves and dwarves in them. They’re just so played out. I don’t mind leveling or progressing, but I don’t think I could ever go back to the old quest hub, wall of text system.

In fact, I now find all linear questing games intolerable.

Exactly, which is why i said you can never get old of MMORPGS, because new ones bring newer features that are interesting. Example is GW2, its action combat was a breath of fresh air from the classic style used in WoW. You can get bored of certain games but u need to understand you cant of the genre. You must be bored of the mmorpgs that you’ve played so far, trust me there are plenty new better ones out/coming out.

Tried ESO, couldn’t pay it. Tried Wildstar couldn’t play it. Haven’t tried Arch Age, but I’ve watched videos and know it’s not for me. I’m bored of the genre as it stood. I used to like aspects of it that I’ve grown beyond.

Just wait for newer ones to come out, i know in the future they’ll be extremely immersive MMORPGS, take a look at Black Desert for one. Imagine the kind of MMORPG in 10 years? i know it’ll have so many features that i couldn’t even imagine. It just takes time for games to improve, in all genres.

Sure, but I’m playing this for now. There’s nothing on the horizon that I see that’s going to replace it. I never think years ahead in games. I want something to enjoy right now. I’ll enjoy the new stuff when it comes.

I was looking for a mmo where players would decide the fate and behavior of the server and ive found it, playing Archage was far better and rewarding than i was expecting, the possible options i can do in that game are excellent, and are not demanding on time like the traditional mmo’s.
It is like WvW being fused into pve map, where player/guilds have the possibility to make their own empire being outlaw, pirates, or being on the good side and role play with those thiefs that can be jailed by a player base court tribunal and pay for their crimes, also sandbox map and possible construction sites, being a guild castle or just a personal area, and all of this w/o the traditional time consuming farm.

pigdog.9215:

Just wait for newer ones to come out, i know in the future they’ll be extremely immersive MMORPGS, take a look at Black Desert for one.

Black Desert is another Asian grinder with open PvP .. so yeah .. if you like that you can
already play AION or Lineage 2 .. in the end its just the same only with better graphics.

Beldin.5498:

pigdog.9215:

Just wait for newer ones to come out, i know in the future they’ll be extremely immersive MMORPGS, take a look at Black Desert for one.

Black Desert is another Asian grinder with open PvP .. so yeah .. if you like that you can
already play AION or Lineage 2 .. in the end its just the same only with better graphics.

You do know that black desert has a large trading economy that i havent seen in any RPG in ages, you can climb things like in assassins creed, combat is immersive and the environment looks extremely immersive. Aion/lineage 2 don’t have those things so why would i play them? Also the game isnt even out yet so comparing it to released games is kind of silly don’t you think

Aeolus.3615:

I was looking for a mmo where players would decide the fate and behavior of the server and ive found it, playing Archage was far better and rewarding than i was expecting, the possible options i can do in that game are excellent, and are not demanding on time like the traditional mmo’s.
It is like WvW being fused into pve map, where player/guilds have the possibility to make their own empire being outlaw, pirates, or being on the good side and role play with those thiefs that can be jailed by a player base court tribunal and pay for their crimes, also sandbox map and possible construction sites, being a guild castle or just a personal area, and all of this w/o the traditional time consuming farm.

Everyone thought GW 2 was the second coming before it launched too, even after playing the beta. Don’t kid yourself. That game is likely to end up both pay to win and very grindy.

And without PvE servers at all? I don’t see that being a huge game in the west. We already know it didn’t do all that well in the East.

pigdog.9215:

Beldin.5498:

pigdog.9215:

Just wait for newer ones to come out, i know in the future they’ll be extremely immersive MMORPGS, take a look at Black Desert for one.

Black Desert is another Asian grinder with open PvP .. so yeah .. if you like that you can
already play AION or Lineage 2 .. in the end its just the same only with better graphics.

You do know that black desert has a large trading economy that i havent seen in any RPG in ages, you can climb things like in assassins creed, combat is immersive and the environment looks extremely immersive. Aion/lineage 2 don’t have those things so why would i play them? Also the game isnt even out yet so comparing it to released games is kind of silly don’t you think

Climbing .. yeahh .. here we have jumping .. how long will that be interesting ?
Combat doesn’t really looks much different than here.

However .. in the end the open PvP makes that game a no-go for me the same than
Archeage or whatever else, since these games in the west always end just as gank fests.

Its also a “real” grinder where you didn’t get much exp for quests but more for just
grinding mobs.

Vayne.8563:

Aeolus.3615:

I was looking for a mmo where players would decide the fate and behavior of the server and ive found it, playing Archage was far better and rewarding than i was expecting, the possible options i can do in that game are excellent, and are not demanding on time like the traditional mmo’s.
It is like WvW being fused into pve map, where player/guilds have the possibility to make their own empire being outlaw, pirates, or being on the good side and role play with those thiefs that can be jailed by a player base court tribunal and pay for their crimes, also sandbox map and possible construction sites, being a guild castle or just a personal area, and all of this w/o the traditional time consuming farm.

Everyone thought GW 2 was the second coming before it launched too, even after playing the beta. Don’t kid yourself. That game is likely to end up both pay to win and very grindy.

And without PvE servers at all? I don’t see that being a huge game in the west. We already know it didn’t do all that well in the East.

Edit: Meh, sarcasm to thick even for me.

The game is boat loads of fun, it has a very quick leveling pace and it offers sandbox content in a market that’s been deprived of it for years.

Beldin.5498:

pigdog.9215:

Beldin.5498:

pigdog.9215:

Just wait for newer ones to come out, i know in the future they’ll be extremely immersive MMORPGS, take a look at Black Desert for one.

Black Desert is another Asian grinder with open PvP .. so yeah .. if you like that you can
already play AION or Lineage 2 .. in the end its just the same only with better graphics.

You do know that black desert has a large trading economy that i havent seen in any RPG in ages, you can climb things like in assassins creed, combat is immersive and the environment looks extremely immersive. Aion/lineage 2 don’t have those things so why would i play them? Also the game isnt even out yet so comparing it to released games is kind of silly don’t you think

Climbing .. yeahh .. here we have jumping .. how long will that be interesting ?
Combat doesn’t really looks much different than here.

However .. in the end the open PvP makes that game a no-go for me the same than
Archeage or whatever else, since these games in the west always end just as gank fests.

Its also a “real” grinder where you didn’t get much exp for quests but more for just
grinding mobs.

Lol? you’re just making up things now. Climbing adds to immersion and people like games that immerse them into it. Combat is action based, unlike gw2. Do some more research before commenting because its clear you dont know the game.

pigdog.9215:

Beldin.5498:

pigdog.9215:

Beldin.5498:

pigdog.9215:

Just wait for newer ones to come out, i know in the future they’ll be extremely immersive MMORPGS, take a look at Black Desert for one.

Black Desert is another Asian grinder with open PvP .. so yeah .. if you like that you can
already play AION or Lineage 2 .. in the end its just the same only with better graphics.

You do know that black desert has a large trading economy that i havent seen in any RPG in ages, you can climb things like in assassins creed, combat is immersive and the environment looks extremely immersive. Aion/lineage 2 don’t have those things so why would i play them? Also the game isnt even out yet so comparing it to released games is kind of silly don’t you think

Climbing .. yeahh .. here we have jumping .. how long will that be interesting ?
Combat doesn’t really looks much different than here.

However .. in the end the open PvP makes that game a no-go for me the same than
Archeage or whatever else, since these games in the west always end just as gank fests.

Its also a “real” grinder where you didn’t get much exp for quests but more for just
grinding mobs.

Lol? you’re just making up things now. Climbing adds to immersion and people like games that immerse them into it. Combat is action based, unlike gw2. Do some more research before commenting because its clear you dont know the game.

You clearly have already played it for 2 years so you know how it will turn out
after that time .. right ?

Oh .. wait .. it hasn’t even been released.

I think it’s this game and others who continue to do the same system. ….

Prelaunch hype to get preorders (called founders packs now), list of well aimed promises to playerbase (like diversity, modern ui, revolutionary design), launch comes along and the game isn’t anything more than what we’ve seen before, the game goes on and multiple projects promised the players are squashed, the economy becomes terrible because of terrible business practices by the so called economists they hire who can’t seem to see a bad deal anywhere, the updates to the game stagnate into oblivion as the development team is isolated from the playerbase as the game ages.

This has been the model I’ve seen in this game and others in many a company. OP you’re not tired of just this game you’re tired of the entire system that each of these companies use. It’s time for the playerbase to hold them accountable for the things they told their games would be, and to do that one must vote with one’s wallet. I’ve started my vote.

I’ve played 23 mmo’s to date over years of gaming, and even tho I haven’t worked in the industry, I’d be one of the few developers out there if given the chance to actually advocate for the players concerns, and I certainly wouldn’t make promises I couldn’t keep.

chemiclord.3978:

Players are the greatest force of stagnation in our games. We DON’T want new. We DON’T want different. Just give us more of the same. We kinda… WANT to be bored, because it means that we aren’t getting pushed out of our comfort zone with what we know we like.

I think another issue is that when it comes to MMOs, gamers want change, but they are not entirely sure if this is what they want, hence you would see more posts on MMO forums that would demand vaguely of what they want whether it be related to balance or something new they want to add. Because of this, a game will change based on what feedback they can get from a community, just not the kind of change that they had in mind. In the end, if a gamer is playing this game for more than several hours a day, they’ll always get tired of it.

Terok.7315:

Vayne.8563:

Aeolus.3615:

I was looking for a mmo where players would decide the fate and behavior of the server and ive found it, playing Archage was far better and rewarding than i was expecting, the possible options i can do in that game are excellent, and are not demanding on time like the traditional mmo’s.
It is like WvW being fused into pve map, where player/guilds have the possibility to make their own empire being outlaw, pirates, or being on the good side and role play with those thiefs that can be jailed by a player base court tribunal and pay for their crimes, also sandbox map and possible construction sites, being a guild castle or just a personal area, and all of this w/o the traditional time consuming farm.

Everyone thought GW 2 was the second coming before it launched too, even after playing the beta. Don’t kid yourself. That game is likely to end up both pay to win and very grindy.

And without PvE servers at all? I don’t see that being a huge game in the west. We already know it didn’t do all that well in the East.

Edit: Meh, sarcasm to thick even for me.

The game is boat loads of fun, it has a very quick leveling pace and it offers sandbox content in a market that’s been deprived of it for years.

Sandbox MMOs have traditionally been underpopulated. The biggest had about half a million people at max. I don’t see most people spending time in a sandbox MMO, even though I personally would.

I’m mostly tired of the hamster wheel that replaces true content creation – no matter what game it is.

I became interested in MMO’s for the idea that someday….someday….we will have a fully immersive virtual metaverse to play in.

Since my day’s playing Ultima, we have been inching our way towards that.

But something happened with WoW.

Not at release – but after it became ridiculously popular.

Suddenly, all of these people wanted to be mulit-billionaire’s, cashing in on us gamers.

They applied the same psychological Skinner box principles to our games that they casinos use to keep people addicted to slot machines.

The entire industry was flooded with crap.

From time to time, you get a game that has a couple ok ideas, but generally really poor execution.

Like Warhammer Online, or Anarchy Online, or Star Trek Online, or Rift, or Tera, or half a dozen other games that were fun for a month or two.

And Guild Wars 2.

Sooner or later, they start brainstorming how to make more money. Experience boosters and other ‘potions’. Costumes. Unique weapons and armor (or just skins). And so on.

And, everything they do drives people away.

The reason is that primarily what players want is more content. That is, more of the actual game itself.

This means expanding the world – making it bigger. New maps and so on.

This means more places to explore within the world that already exists.

And sometimes, like in the case of Cataclysm and the attack on Lions Arch, making permanent, drastic changes to the world (which is a cool thing to do – it keeps older places fresh).

But they do so little of this – expanding their world, that sooner or later we grow bored.

In order to keep our attention they try to entice us with false promises, fake content (LS, holiday events, “dynamic” events, and so on) that are ok for a minute – but grow boring very fast.

I always say this on the forum of every MMO I ever play, and I’ve played (or beta’d) in quite a few – but what players want is a GIGANTIC world with MORE content than they can play through BEFORE you develop more content.

Now, I’m aware that there are some technical and economic limitations that prevent anyone from quite creating that world yet.

But it often seems like most new MMO’s hardly even try.

Instead of creating a truly massive world, we see game after game after game taking it’s shot – and missing.

WoW is probably the largest game out there – and while I haven’t played at all since just before Burning Crusade came out (yep, I never played a single expansion), it IS the biggest game world that I’m aware of.

If you were to start playing WoW for the first time today, you would have a really, really massive world to explore. Four continents and tons of dungeons. You could probably spend a year just levelling one character through all the starting zones.

I did a trial account on WoW a couple years ago just to see the Blood Elves character models and realized just how much was there.

Now, I don’t like the game for it’s outdated graphics, and the fact that they too use the ‘hamster wheel’ methodology to keep players in, but I have to recognize that they’ve at least created a massive world for their players. I mean, Azeroth is really, really big. If you hadn’t done it all yet, there would be so much to keep you busy……

Anyways.

That’s the biggest problem with GW2 – it’s the ’let’s force everyone into a hamster wheel so the keep playing’ methodology that’s actually DRIVING PLAYERS OUT OF YOUR GAME.

Just make more game. Make a bigger world.

Add 10 more zones, and then add 10 more.

Just do it.

And then make a bunch of costumes and stuff for the cash shop – only reason I don’t spend money on costumes is because every time I check, there was like 4 or 5 to choose from. Their should be dozens – hundreds even. If their were tons of costumes, and lots of new content, then I’d be supporting the game through buying cosmetics, while playing through tons of fun new stuff to do.

Instead, we get the hamster wheel.

Until the company’s stop doing this, they will all end up the same way.

I also think that MMO’s should just remove levels completely.

The only two things I look forward to right now are Star Citizen and the Oculus Rift.

I can’t wait to see what kind of MMO people create for the Oculus.

Heh, just imagining the potential of a game helps keep me interested.

Although Anet is kinda disappointing me in the potential dept. I’m hoping the game has some potential regarding mechanical character customization along with its improved aesthetic customization. It’s good to see all the new places to explore though! I just want to see an expanse of possible weapons to use, ways to use those weapons, or even things I can’t think of right now!

Letting your imagination run wild is part of why things are so awesome as a kid. Keeping yourself grounded in the here-and-now reality gives perspective and understanding but only seeing the limits of the box can really sap some of that excitement.

I came to understanding that part of what keeps things interesting and exciting for me is exploring possibilities and alternate paths, figuratively and literally. Different builds, different strategies, different combat styles, even just ideas exchanged between players.

Another thing that occurred to me is that a game under development has like, a lot of people working on it, right? Like wasn’t the Anet team 150 people or something?

So, they get this huge team together, spend five years putting a game together, and then what? Do you think the Anet team is still 150 people?

No, I seriously doubt it. There’s a dozen. Maybe two dozen people.

All the effort goes into launching the game, but no one thinks about maintaining that level of production for the game’s life.

Why not?

Ok, maybe it doesn’t need 150 people. But with all the groundwork laid already, couldn’t they keep teams working around the clock creating new content (meaning: new maps/zones, new dungeons, new weapons and armor, new costumes, new enemies, new skills, new classes, new races).

We want a constantly expanding world – not a treadmill. Not a hamster wheel. Not a slot machine.

A.
World.
To.
Explore.

That’s the ONLY thing that will keep people coming back, Anet.

ipan.4356:

Another thing that occurred to me is that a game under development has like, a lot of people working on it, right? Like wasn’t the Anet team 150 people or something?

So, they get this huge team together, spend five years putting a game together, and then what? Do you think the Anet team is still 150 people?

No, I seriously doubt it. There’s a dozen. Maybe two dozen people.

All the effort goes into launching the game, but no one thinks about maintaining that level of production for the game’s life.

Why not?

Ok, maybe it doesn’t need 150 people. But with all the groundwork laid already, couldn’t they keep teams working around the clock creating new content (meaning: new maps/zones, new dungeons, new weapons and armor, new costumes, new enemies, new skills, new classes, new races).

We want a constantly expanding world – not a treadmill. Not a hamster wheel. Not a slot machine.

A.
World.
To.
Explore.

That’s the ONLY thing that will keep people coming back, Anet.

Anet didn’t lay off people. They hired more people.

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Another thing that occurred to me is that a game under development has like, a lot of people working on it, right? Like wasn’t the Anet team 150 people or something?

So, they get this huge team together, spend five years putting a game together, and then what? Do you think the Anet team is still 150 people?

No, I seriously doubt it. There’s a dozen. Maybe two dozen people.

All the effort goes into launching the game, but no one thinks about maintaining that level of production for the game’s life.

Why not?

Ok, maybe it doesn’t need 150 people. But with all the groundwork laid already, couldn’t they keep teams working around the clock creating new content (meaning: new maps/zones, new dungeons, new weapons and armor, new costumes, new enemies, new skills, new classes, new races).

We want a constantly expanding world – not a treadmill. Not a hamster wheel. Not a slot machine.

A.
World.
To.
Explore.

That’s the ONLY thing that will keep people coming back, Anet.

Anet didn’t lay off people. They hired more people.

Then what are they doing?

What you mean, “WE”, Kemosabe?

ipan.4356:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Another thing that occurred to me is that a game under development has like, a lot of people working on it, right? Like wasn’t the Anet team 150 people or something?

So, they get this huge team together, spend five years putting a game together, and then what? Do you think the Anet team is still 150 people?

No, I seriously doubt it. There’s a dozen. Maybe two dozen people.

All the effort goes into launching the game, but no one thinks about maintaining that level of production for the game’s life.

Why not?

Ok, maybe it doesn’t need 150 people. But with all the groundwork laid already, couldn’t they keep teams working around the clock creating new content (meaning: new maps/zones, new dungeons, new weapons and armor, new costumes, new enemies, new skills, new classes, new races).

We want a constantly expanding world – not a treadmill. Not a hamster wheel. Not a slot machine.

A.
World.
To.
Explore.

That’s the ONLY thing that will keep people coming back, Anet.

Anet didn’t lay off people. They hired more people.

Then what are they doing?

I think people are truly underestimating the amount of work that’s been put into this game. Are you really listing out and tracking the upgrades. People seem to think because dungeons don’t get made, and because there are fewer new zones that nothing is being done. The list of upgrades is much longer than you think.

You just don’t like the upgrades. Others do.

ipan.4356:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Another thing that occurred to me is that a game under development has like, a lot of people working on it, right? Like wasn’t the Anet team 150 people or something?

So, they get this huge team together, spend five years putting a game together, and then what? Do you think the Anet team is still 150 people?

No, I seriously doubt it. There’s a dozen. Maybe two dozen people.

All the effort goes into launching the game, but no one thinks about maintaining that level of production for the game’s life.

Why not?

Ok, maybe it doesn’t need 150 people. But with all the groundwork laid already, couldn’t they keep teams working around the clock creating new content (meaning: new maps/zones, new dungeons, new weapons and armor, new costumes, new enemies, new skills, new classes, new races).

We want a constantly expanding world – not a treadmill. Not a hamster wheel. Not a slot machine.

A.
World.
To.
Explore.

That’s the ONLY thing that will keep people coming back, Anet.

Anet didn’t lay off people. They hired more people.

Then what are they doing?

They’re running a large number of teams in parallel, each working on their own mini-project.

They did a presentation on their method at GDC this year.

ipan.4356:

Then what are they doing?

Presumably, they worked on getting things up for the China release and for handling the tech side of things we don’t actually see. Also probably to ramp up internal testing since, well . . . that’s been pretty weak.

Vayne.8563:

Terok.7315:

Vayne.8563:

Aeolus.3615:

I was looking for a mmo where players would decide the fate and behavior of the server and ive found it, playing Archage was far better and rewarding than i was expecting, the possible options i can do in that game are excellent, and are not demanding on time like the traditional mmo’s.
It is like WvW being fused into pve map, where player/guilds have the possibility to make their own empire being outlaw, pirates, or being on the good side and role play with those thiefs that can be jailed by a player base court tribunal and pay for their crimes, also sandbox map and possible construction sites, being a guild castle or just a personal area, and all of this w/o the traditional time consuming farm.

Everyone thought GW 2 was the second coming before it launched too, even after playing the beta. Don’t kid yourself. That game is likely to end up both pay to win and very grindy.

And without PvE servers at all? I don’t see that being a huge game in the west. We already know it didn’t do all that well in the East.

Edit: Meh, sarcasm to thick even for me.

The game is boat loads of fun, it has a very quick leveling pace and it offers sandbox content in a market that’s been deprived of it for years.

Sandbox MMOs have traditionally been underpopulated. The biggest had about half a million people at max. I don’t see most people spending time in a sandbox MMO, even though I personally would.

I don’t think we’ve had enough massive online sandbox games to properly gauge the genres success one way or another. What I do know is that offline and limited online sandbox(ish) games (minecraft, skyrim, etc..) have either become huge successes or have stirred up considerable interest purely through word of mouth. Archeage itself has seen over a million registered users during this beta period.

Anyway, I’m not here to proclaim the death of Guild Wars 2 and sing the praises of our new majesty, Archeage. I just think its really unfair to state the game is going to become a free to play grindfest without really knowing anything about it. I mean, isn’t that partly the point you were trying to make when you said, “Everyone thought GW 2 was the second coming before it launched too, even after playing the beta.”?

Terok.7315:

Vayne.8563:

Terok.7315:

Vayne.8563:

Aeolus.3615:

I was looking for a mmo where players would decide the fate and behavior of the server and ive found it, playing Archage was far better and rewarding than i was expecting, the possible options i can do in that game are excellent, and are not demanding on time like the traditional mmo’s.
It is like WvW being fused into pve map, where player/guilds have the possibility to make their own empire being outlaw, pirates, or being on the good side and role play with those thiefs that can be jailed by a player base court tribunal and pay for their crimes, also sandbox map and possible construction sites, being a guild castle or just a personal area, and all of this w/o the traditional time consuming farm.

Everyone thought GW 2 was the second coming before it launched too, even after playing the beta. Don’t kid yourself. That game is likely to end up both pay to win and very grindy.

And without PvE servers at all? I don’t see that being a huge game in the west. We already know it didn’t do all that well in the East.

Edit: Meh, sarcasm to thick even for me.

The game is boat loads of fun, it has a very quick leveling pace and it offers sandbox content in a market that’s been deprived of it for years.

Sandbox MMOs have traditionally been underpopulated. The biggest had about half a million people at max. I don’t see most people spending time in a sandbox MMO, even though I personally would.

I don’t think we’ve had enough massive online sandbox games to properly gauge the genres success one way or another. What I do know is that offline and limited online sandbox(ish) games (minecraft, skyrim, etc..) have either become huge successes or have stirred up considerable interest purely through word of mouth. Archeage itself has seen over a million registered users during this beta period.

Anyway, I’m not here to proclaim the death of Guild Wars 2 and sing the praises of our new majesty, Archeage. I just think its really unfair to state the game is going to become a free to play grindfest without really knowing anything about it. I mean, isn’t that partly the point you were trying to make when you said, “Everyone thought GW 2 was the second coming before it launched too, even after playing the beta.”?

Most sandbox games so far seem to require a bigger commitment. Most people don’t have the time. The age of the average gamer is going up.

Vayne.8563:

Most sandbox games so far seem to require a bigger commitment. Most people don’t have the time. The age of the average gamer is going up.

Well, let’s be honest… that is true for ANY MMO, themepark or sandbox. The more time you commit to it the more you get. Those who have the “biggest shinies” are the ones that can commit 8-10 hours a day, and that is pretty much universally true.

GW2 has kept that discrepancy down better than most, but it’s still there in spades.

Vayne.8563:

Most sandbox games so far seem to require a bigger commitment. Most people don’t have the time. The age of the average gamer is going up.

Sandbox games are definitely a niche product. WoW took MMOs somewhat mainstream and improvements to console systems (like adding an online service) helped bring a lot of non-traditional MMO gamers into the genre. But while they can show a profit, there just isn’t a big enough market for more than a handful of sandbox games. They are essentially the framework of a game, a setting and tools players use to create their own games, a lot like the rulebooks for the original Dungeons and Dragons games.

As time goes on and these tools improve, it will become easier to create content or generate content randomly that makes sense. Sandbox games can become more appealing, but when the stock market’s love for new technology crashed around 2000 or so it set back development of new tech quite a bit. So we’re still 5-10 years away from a leap forward in technology that could do that.

chemiclord.3978:

Vayne.8563:

Most sandbox games so far seem to require a bigger commitment. Most people don’t have the time. The age of the average gamer is going up.

Well, let’s be honest… that is true for ANY MMO, themepark or sandbox. The more time you commit to it the more you get. Those who have the “biggest shinies” are the ones that can commit 8-10 hours a day, and that is pretty much universally true.

GW2 has kept that discrepancy down better than most, but it’s still there in spades.

I am being honest.

A theme park game is easy fast stuff, because you don’t have to get as into it. When you have user generated content, it becomes much harder to get into. The entry level of learning what’s going on goes way up, because it’s not fixed content. It’s an ever shifting boundary.

Sure you can just go in and do a couple of quests or whatever, but that’s not what the game is about.

People can go into Guild Wars 2 and really feel like they’re advancing if they don’t have a lot of time. They’re always making progress. Even at max level there are things you can do that give you progress towards what you’re doing.

But in theme park games to really get benefit, again from the one’s I’ve tried, you have to be a lot more dedicated. A guy that doesn’t have much time to play isn’t going to get very far into Eve, or Lineage.

The real meat of those games is really becoming part of a guild, or corporation or some sort of organization.

Those who have less time tend to be the kinds of people who solo more, and do content that isn’t quite as organized. It’s a broad generalization but I think it’s likely true.

People solo their way through Guild Wars 2 and still enjoy it. I’m not sure how that would work in most sandbox games.

Oh, I understand that, but what you’re describing is something that is present in ALL MMOs, to varying degrees. Sandboxes tend to be on the most time consuming, to be sure, but they ALL really require some degree of significant time investment if you want to really get “into” the game.

GW2 is definitely better than any I’ve played in keeping that required time investment down if you want to feel like you’re progressing, but it’s still there.

chemiclord.3978:

Oh, I understand that, but what you’re describing is something that is present in ALL MMOs, to varying degrees. Sandboxes tend to be on the most time consuming, to be sure, but they ALL really require some degree of significant time investment if you want to really get “into” the game.

GW2 is definitely better than any I’ve played in keeping that required time investment down if you want to feel like you’re progressing, but it’s still there.

I’m relatively sure that a large percentage of GW 2 players log into kill a few things in a fantasy world and never even look at a dungeon, or “end game” content.

They just want to wander around and kill stuff.

Guys like me who play every day who’ve done just about everything aren’t the bulk of the player base.

But we’re sure the most vocal part of it.

chemiclord.3978:

Oh, I understand that, but what you’re describing is something that is present in ALL MMOs, to varying degrees. Sandboxes tend to be on the most time consuming, to be sure, but they ALL really require some degree of significant time investment if you want to really get “into” the game.

GW2 is definitely better than any I’ve played in keeping that required time investment down if you want to feel like you’re progressing, but it’s still there.

Not really… “free to play” MMOs tend to require less time commitment and offer more paid shortcuts than sub-based games. In a sub-based game there is always the idea in the back of your mind that it’s going to cost $15 a month whether you play every day or not. But if you play every day then it costs 50 cents a day, if you play every other day it costs $1 per day, and if you only play on weekends it costs like $4 a day. So it naturally holds more attraction for players who can commit to playing every day, or close to it. Those with less time to play don’t feel as though they’re getting their money’s worth and would unsub at a higher rate.

But without a sub, the incentive to play shifts. Yes, you can grind all day long but you can also buy an xp doubler for $2 and get a lot further in the game. Or the game focuses on visuals like Secret World of GW2 where you can buy outfits from the cash shop. There are different strategies to attract different kinds of players.

tolunart.2095:

Vayne.8563:

Most sandbox games so far seem to require a bigger commitment. Most people don’t have the time. The age of the average gamer is going up.

Sandbox games are definitely a niche product. WoW took MMOs somewhat mainstream and improvements to console systems (like adding an online service) helped bring a lot of non-traditional MMO gamers into the genre. But while they can show a profit, there just isn’t a big enough market for more than a handful of sandbox games. They are essentially the framework of a game, a setting and tools players use to create their own games, a lot like the rulebooks for the original Dungeons and Dragons games.

As time goes on and these tools improve, it will become easier to create content or generate content randomly that makes sense. Sandbox games can become more appealing, but when the stock market’s love for new technology crashed around 2000 or so it set back development of new tech quite a bit. So we’re still 5-10 years away from a leap forward in technology that could do that.

It’s interesting, I agree with some of your points, except the last one about being 5-10 years away – I believe we are much closer.

Somebody, at some point, is going to figure out how to seamlessly blend user generated content with procedural generation, they’re going to do it in the Oculus Rift, and it’s going to be the biggest thing since sliced WoWbread.

A game that continues to generate content as fast as you consume it is going to be wildly addictive, perhaps even illegal in some States.

ipan.4356:

tolunart.2095:

Vayne.8563:

Most sandbox games so far seem to require a bigger commitment. Most people don’t have the time. The age of the average gamer is going up.

Sandbox games are definitely a niche product. WoW took MMOs somewhat mainstream and improvements to console systems (like adding an online service) helped bring a lot of non-traditional MMO gamers into the genre. But while they can show a profit, there just isn’t a big enough market for more than a handful of sandbox games. They are essentially the framework of a game, a setting and tools players use to create their own games, a lot like the rulebooks for the original Dungeons and Dragons games.

As time goes on and these tools improve, it will become easier to create content or generate content randomly that makes sense. Sandbox games can become more appealing, but when the stock market’s love for new technology crashed around 2000 or so it set back development of new tech quite a bit. So we’re still 5-10 years away from a leap forward in technology that could do that.

It’s interesting, I agree with some of your points, except the last one about being 5-10 years away – I believe we are much closer.

Somebody, at some point, is going to figure out how to seamlessly blend user generated content with procedural generation, they’re going to do it in the Oculus Rift, and it’s going to be the biggest thing since sliced WoWbread.

A game that continues to generate content as fast as you consume it is going to be wildly addictive, perhaps even illegal in some States.

It’s very rare that the first iteration of something goes main stream very quickly. Until people get the hang of the Occulus Rift and programming for it, it’s going to be a long while. Remember, Guild Wars 2 took five years to create.

I wouldn’t expect to see anything remotely like what you’re talking about for at least five years…and probably longer. Once that floodgate opens, however, we’re going to see a flurry of products.

There still needs to be someone willing to invest millions of dollars to risk it.

Vayne.8563:

I wouldn’t expect to see anything remotely like what you’re talking about for at least five years…and probably longer. Once that floodgate opens, however, we’re going to see a flurry of products.

There still needs to be someone willing to invest millions of dollars to risk it.

You won’t see a floodgate like opening until after a project proves viable/profitable. Then . . . then the clones pop up and mature within X years.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

I wouldn’t expect to see anything remotely like what you’re talking about for at least five years…and probably longer. Once that floodgate opens, however, we’re going to see a flurry of products.

There still needs to be someone willing to invest millions of dollars to risk it.

You won’t see a floodgate like opening until after a project proves viable/profitable. Then . . . then the clones pop up and mature within X years.

Right, so at least five years, probably more..that’s my best guess.

ipan.4356:

It’s interesting, I agree with some of your points, except the last one about being 5-10 years away – I believe we are much closer.

There have not been many great leaps in technology since 2000, in part because of a lack of investor confidence in tech companies. Companies like Microsoft aren’t doing much more than slight improvements to existing tech, and it’s very hard for new companies to get funding to explore new ideas. So personally I don’t expect to see anything too exciting in the next decade or so…

I think its the way we play MMOs. WoW made it fun to do alts and try to bring up a group of characters to play with and then they supported that need with new content fairly frequently. Skip had 8 years or so and we are still trying to adapt that behavior to newer MMOs that lack the same time versus reward formula that WoW has.

To overcome this, i think MMOs should only ever be played with one character just until the content has been played through and then skipping over to another genre of game until newer content comes out for the MMO to make it worth playing again.

I think the idea of playing one MMO for years on end, is a lost idea anymore that just simply isn’t applicable to the what is on the market currently. GW2 or otherwise. IMO, this generation of F2P falls flat, where more robust offerings, such as D3, that offer more content with little more than an initial purchase is where you want to sink your time, because there literally is more bang for your buck.