Guild Wars 2

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

Simply by being on the forum you probably arent who the changes are made for.

Also if “pestering” is the word you come up for when asking for help Im not sure social games are best bet. That or your guild mates arent really your mates.

So much this. I feel like I’m being treated like a 5 year old now.
But the most laughable part of it all is that these “improvements” are supposed to make the game easier while they infact to the exact opposite.

Not having your last utility slot until lvl 35? Omg I’m going to own the kitten now!

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

This ^ specifically number 2.

Apparently people are dumb, like it or not.

I always found said sayings odd. “treated like a 5 year old now”
Compared to early mmo’s we are treated like fetus’s. That were found decomposed in a trash can.

But I guess one had to actually play said early mmo’s to notice the difference.

I agree with the gist of your post. There are so many games that are considered classics that do zero hand holding whatsoever. Playing your first MMO is a daunting adventure. There is so much to learn, but I think that is the thing that gives players that replayable factor that you can’t get in a lot of other games.

I am glad I have all the classes to 80. The new trait system coupled with the changes coming today look to be less than top notch. I am so glad I have enough leveling tomes should this game ever get a new race or class. I will level that character to 80 and then go play the new starter maps and mid level zones.

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.

a vast majority of MMO’s have very, very different circumstances and environments for their eastern audiences over their western, this is because it is an industry-wide and widely acknowledged fact that what people want in a game in Asia and want people want in a game in the west are very, very different things. This is why “Anime” MMORPG’s that are ported from Asia are usually heavily modified for their western audiences or are very niche games with medium/low populations.

It is not so much hand holding as that there are 80 levels and they needed to add a sense of progression across all those levels instead of a burst to level 30 followed by a trickle of trait points for the last 50 levels. If you want to get everything by level 30, then there is no reason to have a level cap higher than level 30.

rapthorne.7345:

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.

a vast majority of MMO’s have very, very different circumstances and environments for their eastern audiences over their western, this is because it is an industry-wide and widely acknowledged fact that what people want in a game in Asia and want people want in a game in the west are very, very different things. This is why “Anime” MMORPG’s that are ported from Asia are usually heavily modified for their western audiences or are very niche games with medium/low populations.

I understand that as a player of MANY Ported Eastern games. However, that was only one point about why I posted what I did. It doesn’t mean that they didn’t use it as a test, since there was already upstart/upset over the early game being hard to understand, confusing and overwhelming.

Just because you understand something doesn’t mean everyone will.

Personally, it took me a very long time to get the grasp of the game and even today after two years of playing I still find myself learning new things I didn’t pick up before. So I understand from the frustration of almost quitting this game because it was so many systems all at once.. it was scary and hard to get a hold of.

I don’t have all the reasons they changed it, but I highly doubt they are going to do something as drastic as rearranging the entire early leveling experience to the detriment of their game.

Many people seem to forget the flood of posts everywhere with titles like “Where should I go?”, “I feel lost.”; “I am too low”, “Mobs are too high.” or “I am dying all the time” whenever we have a great influx into the game. A large number of players needs more hand holding. Each player lost due to bad guidance and introductions it is potential loss of money. The data showed Arenanet the bitter truth. In China Arenanet heard the same complaints. They had to react. The data mined free trials forces further adjustments to the level experience. The free trial accounts probably will cause the biggest influx since launch. The goial of Arenaet will be to keep as many players as possible in the game who will buy the game afterwards.

As a side effect the new leveling system creates much more challenging content on the way to level 80. You can even say the care bear mode is over. Play the story path of Ascalonian Catacombs with a level 30 character and you will have a real hard mode. Same is valid for the other paths at level 35.

I am simply guessing here, but I would say it has a lot to do with the demographics behind who is playing mmorpg’s these days as compared to who used to play mmorpg’s. There was a time when the entire genre was relatively niche as computer games in general were considered “nerdy” activities since computers were not so pervasive. Flash forward 15-20 years and almost everyone in a developed nation now has at least one computer and other various computer like devices, so as an expanded market emerges developers have started to cater to the lowest common denominator in order to make their products accessible to the largest amount of potential players. You see the same thing in all media types really and I would not expect the trend to change.

Well, OP, look at it from the perspective of the cup being half full: ANet’s telling you you’re smarter than the average gamer.

Small victories, take ’em where you get ’em.

Belenwyn.8674:

Many people seem to forget the flood of posts everywhere with titles like “Where should I go?”, “I feel lost.”; “I am too low”, “Mobs are too high.” or “I am dying all the time” whenever we have a great influx into the game. A large number of players needs more hand holding. Each player lost due to bad guidance and introductions it is potential loss of money. The data showed Arenanet the bitter truth. In China Arenanet heard the same complaints. They had to react. The data mined free trials forces further adjustments to the level experience. The free trial accounts probably will cause the biggest influx since launch. The goial of Arenaet will be to keep as many players as possible in the game who will buy the game afterwards.

As a side effect the new leveling system creates much more challenging content on the way to level 80. You can say even say the care bear mode is over. Play the story path of Ascalonian Catacombs with a level 30 character and you will have a real hard mode. Same is valid for the other paths at level 35.

The problem is, this change does not add any guidance (I agree, guidance is what I need and want, as stated in my OP), simply a lot of gating and spoon feeding total basic features (ie, skills), rather than the guidance we (new players) need regarding the game.

One feature I am hopeful about regarding that guidance, though, is the objective compass, that’s what we need more of, not gating and spoon feeding.

Pandaman.4758:

Well, OP, look at it from the perspective of the cup being half full: ANet’s telling you you’re smarter than the average gamer.

Small victories, take ’em where you get ’em.

uuurgh.

This. I guess.

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

Any single one of those points can be easily destroyed by the fact ANet hasn’t actually improved anything, but with each and every single change they make, more and more players are leaving the game. Evidence? See the financial reports.

End of topic. Move on.

Belenwyn.8674:

Many people seem to forget the flood of posts everywhere with titles like “Where should I go?”, “I feel lost.”; “I am too low”, “Mobs are too high.” or “I am dying all the time” whenever we have a great influx into the game. A large number of players needs more hand holding. Each player lost due to bad guidance and introductions it is potential loss of money. The data showed Arenanet the bitter truth. In China Arenanet heard the same complaints. They had to react. The data mined free trials forces further adjustments to the level experience. The free trial accounts probably will cause the biggest influx since launch. The goial of Arenaet will be to keep as many players as possible in the game who will buy the game afterwards.

As a side effect the new leveling system creates much more challenging content on the way to level 80. You can even say the care bear mode is over. Play the story path of Ascalonian Catacombs with a level 30 character and you will have a real hard mode. Same is valid for the other paths at level 35.

You’re assuming that a) anyone/everyone did the dungeons at the suggested levels or b) most people waited until they were level 80 before doing the dungeons

I admit those dungeons would be more challenging when done at level, but that isn’t how many people play the game (from my experiences and from posts I’ve seen here and elsewhere.)

Corpus Christi.2057:

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

Any single one of those points can be easily destroyed by the fact ANet hasn’t actually improved anything, but with each and every single change they make, more and more players are leaving the game. Evidence? See the financial reports.

End of topic. Move on.

To you perhaps nothing has improved. But, personally I am looking forward to it from what I have seen in you tube videos about the changes it will greatly help me and people like me understand the game. As, it does gate things away to give people a chance to learn it. As for the financial reports, I don’t even pretend to understand them, but 100mil profit in 1 year(as is projected for GW2 this year), two years after a Buy To Play game has come out is nothing to snuff at.

Tasty Pudding.3764:

It is not so much hand holding as that there are 80 levels and they needed to add a sense of progression across all those levels instead of a burst to level 30 followed by a trickle of trait points for the last 50 levels. If you want to get everything by level 30, then there is no reason to have a level cap higher than level 30.

They could have done this by…well, geez.
Pretty much anything but what they did.
In my experience, from about, oh, 40-80, there’s never been much to do besides save skill points for Elites, and upgrade gear. Fine-tune builds, I guess. Map completion. Leveling past the midpoint has always been rather unenthralling, with interesting bits spaced out few and far between – and making the boring part before your character is a full character last longer is a terrible solution, at the very least in my opinion.
So, what could they have done instead?

New skills to learn? Maybe new traits? New mechanics to pick up? I know I’ve seen a lot of people suggesting a multiclass system like they apparently had in GW1, I’ve seen a lot of threads about new skills, new traits…Could always have, like, sub-professions, maybe, being more specialized versions than the parent profession? I don’t know. Customization of skills, on a level that traits can’t match, could be neat – maybe a subclass of the Trait system, where players could spend points to improve some aspect of their Utility skills directly, or change them in a unique fashion.
The game is starving for new content that isn’t Living Story, and I’m fairly certain players would like having more to do in the post-Elite part of the game than hunt traits so they can finish their build, while trying to hit 80 in time for the next Living Story.

Maybe the AI actually starts being not-absolutely-stupid around 30, and you play because you actually have a more interesting experience when fighting high-level enemies than you did fighting your first group of enemies? They could actually create depth of play in areas besides Dry Top, though it’d likely take a lot of work – it’d be worth it, in the end. Certainly moreso than this.

Instead of actually taking a step in an interesting direction and trying to improve the last forty or fifty levels of play, it feels like they’re stepping back and going ‘you know what, we have nothing to put here. Let’s draw out the slow starting stuff until it feels like there’s progression.’ Meanwhile, they try to justify it by going ’it’s easier to learn this way.’ Of course this is being taken as ‘they think our hands need held.’

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Belenwyn.8674:

Many people seem to forget the flood of posts everywhere with titles like “Where should I go?”, “I feel lost.”; “I am too low”, “Mobs are too high.” or “I am dying all the time” whenever we have a great influx into the game. A large number of players needs more hand holding. Each player lost due to bad guidance and introductions it is potential loss of money. The data showed Arenanet the bitter truth. In China Arenanet heard the same complaints. They had to react. The data mined free trials forces further adjustments to the level experience. The free trial accounts probably will cause the biggest influx since launch. The goial of Arenaet will be to keep as many players as possible in the game who will buy the game afterwards.

As a side effect the new leveling system creates much more challenging content on the way to level 80. You can even say the care bear mode is over. Play the story path of Ascalonian Catacombs with a level 30 character and you will have a real hard mode. Same is valid for the other paths at level 35.

You’re assuming that a) anyone/everyone did the dungeons at the suggested levels or b) most people waited until they were level 80 before doing the dungeons

I admit those dungeons would be more challenging when done at level, but that isn’t how many people play the game (from my experiences and from posts I’ve seen here and elsewhere.)

There’s another point to be made here, actually.

I wouldn’t even know about the existence of the ascalonian catacombs and other dungeons were it not for my guild talking about them in teamspeak.

Yet again, guidance for us nubs is what is needed, nothing more or less.

I don’t think these new changes are too bad, I understand that some more experienced players think that the new leveling system is “dumbed down”, but also keep in mind that xp from level 1-20 is extremely easy to get and it won’t take too long to unlock all those skills.

Also keep in mind that there ARE players who really don’t understand what’s going on around them, and these few changes might make it easier for them and keep them interested in game instead of leaving them confused.
I know that to a lot of people out there skills and traits are like second nature and almost self explanatory, but then again there are other people who still keyboard turn and ask how come other players strafe so fast.
Or those who don’t know that you can CHANGE KEYBINDS and instead of mouse clicking on your 8 skill (which takes forever) you can just bind it to whatever you prefer.
I remember being a nub warrior and I kept using the Rush skill, which would automatically attack the nearby moa and I was frustrated cause it would put me in combat all the time, but then I realized, oh, I can turn off auto attack!

There are lots of those small stupid things that some people just don’t pay attention to, and I think that this new change might make their leveling experience a little easier to understand and improve overall skill.

I’m not saying that everyone who clicks their skills or keyboard turns is a nub, I’m just trying to use it as an example of a simple thing that lots of people overlook and giving them a hint on how to do it might change their experience drastically.

rapthorne.7345:

There’s another point to be made here, actually.

I wouldn’t even know about the existence of the ascalonian catacombs and other dungeons were it not for my guild talking about them in teamspeak.

Yet again, guidance for us nubs is what is needed, nothing more or less.

But you get mail sent to you when you near or achieve the suggested level?

rapthorne.7345:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Belenwyn.8674:

Many people seem to forget the flood of posts everywhere with titles like “Where should I go?”, “I feel lost.”; “I am too low”, “Mobs are too high.” or “I am dying all the time” whenever we have a great influx into the game. A large number of players needs more hand holding. Each player lost due to bad guidance and introductions it is potential loss of money. The data showed Arenanet the bitter truth. In China Arenanet heard the same complaints. They had to react. The data mined free trials forces further adjustments to the level experience. The free trial accounts probably will cause the biggest influx since launch. The goial of Arenaet will be to keep as many players as possible in the game who will buy the game afterwards.

As a side effect the new leveling system creates much more challenging content on the way to level 80. You can even say the care bear mode is over. Play the story path of Ascalonian Catacombs with a level 30 character and you will have a real hard mode. Same is valid for the other paths at level 35.

You’re assuming that a) anyone/everyone did the dungeons at the suggested levels or b) most people waited until they were level 80 before doing the dungeons

I admit those dungeons would be more challenging when done at level, but that isn’t how many people play the game (from my experiences and from posts I’ve seen here and elsewhere.)

There’s another point to be made here, actually.

I wouldn’t even know about the existence of the ascalonian catacombs and other dungeons were it not for my guild talking about them in teamspeak.

Yet again, guidance for us nubs is what is needed, nothing more or less.

The Guidance on dungeons is kinda there though… they send you in game mail 5 levels before you get to the story mode, and on the level you reach the story mode. Its the player-base the gates people from doing them at level for the most part. ANet can’t control if you don’t read the In game mail that flashes and makes noise indicating you to click it and it even has the “show me” button that shows you just where the entrance to the place is.

Though I’m sorry you didn’t know until guildies told you about it. Dungeons are my most favored thing, and I kind of wish other things in the game alerted you to their presence in the way dungeon mails do.

rapthorne.7345:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Belenwyn.8674:

Many people seem to forget the flood of posts everywhere with titles like “Where should I go?”, “I feel lost.”; “I am too low”, “Mobs are too high.” or “I am dying all the time” whenever we have a great influx into the game. A large number of players needs more hand holding. Each player lost due to bad guidance and introductions it is potential loss of money. The data showed Arenanet the bitter truth. In China Arenanet heard the same complaints. They had to react. The data mined free trials forces further adjustments to the level experience. The free trial accounts probably will cause the biggest influx since launch. The goial of Arenaet will be to keep as many players as possible in the game who will buy the game afterwards.

As a side effect the new leveling system creates much more challenging content on the way to level 80. You can even say the care bear mode is over. Play the story path of Ascalonian Catacombs with a level 30 character and you will have a real hard mode. Same is valid for the other paths at level 35.

You’re assuming that a) anyone/everyone did the dungeons at the suggested levels or b) most people waited until they were level 80 before doing the dungeons

I admit those dungeons would be more challenging when done at level, but that isn’t how many people play the game (from my experiences and from posts I’ve seen here and elsewhere.)

There’s another point to be made here, actually.

I wouldn’t even know about the existence of the ascalonian catacombs and other dungeons were it not for my guild talking about them in teamspeak.

Yet again, guidance for us nubs is what is needed, nothing more or less.

Yeah, it’d be really nice if they’d actually bother to explain things in the game, instead of relying on the playerbase to teach the playerbase. Things like explaining what fields do what with what finishers, for example, or what dungeons/content are suggested for a particular level – to be fair, they do seem to want to be pointing to suggested content, and the mail does usually come at around the suggested level for Story Mode of a dungeon.
Can’t remember a single solitary word regarding Explorable dungeons, of course, which…well, there’s kind of a whole row of vendors with cosmetics you otherwise cannot acquire sort of hanging around in Lion’s Arch. Not sure why they didn’t, as far as I can recall, bother to mention ‘oh, yeah, if you go do those dungeons again, you’ll get tokens for these.’

rapthorne.7345:

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.

a vast majority of MMO’s have very, very different circumstances and environments for their eastern audiences over their western, this is because it is an industry-wide and widely acknowledged fact that what people want in a game in Asia and want people want in a game in the west are very, very different things. This is why “Anime” MMORPG’s that are ported from Asia are usually heavily modified for their western audiences or are very niche games with medium/low populations.

^This is pretty much it. Having played games from both markets, I’m not sure whether this change is targeted for the right audience.

Lucia The Lightbringer.2568:

I don’t think these new changes are too bad, I understand that some more experienced players think that the new leveling system is “dumbed down”, but also keep in mind that xp from level 1-20 is extremely easy to get and it won’t take too long to unlock all those skills.

Also keep in mind that there ARE players who really don’t understand what’s going on around them, and these few changes might make it easier for them and keep them interested in game instead of leaving them confused.
I know that to a lot of people out there skills and traits are like second nature and almost self explanatory, but then again there are other people who still keyboard turn and ask how come other players strafe so fast.
Or those who don’t know that you can CHANGE KEYBINDS and instead of mouse clicking on your 8 skill (which takes forever) you can just bind it to whatever you prefer.
I remember being a nub warrior and I kept using the Rush skill, which would automatically attack the nearby moa and I was frustrated cause it would put me in combat all the time, but then I realized, oh, I can turn off auto attack!

There are lots of those small stupid things that some people just don’t pay attention to, and I think that this new change might make their leveling experience a little easier to understand and improve overall skill.

I’m not saying that everyone who clicks their skills or keyboard turns is a nub, I’m just trying to use it as an example of a simple thing that lots of people overlook and giving them a hint on how to do it might change their experience drastically.

Can you explain to me how slowing down the skill distribution and traits will help introduce players to advanced features of the game? I genuinely feel like I’m missing something here.

Slowing down progression does not make learning totally unrelated aspects (crafting, dungeons, pvp, wvw, etc etc etc) easier or hard.

I’ll say it again, and I’ll keep on saying it. New players need better guidance, not a slowed down experience. GW2 offers no true guidance for their advanced features and relies on the community teaching the community and people researching the wiki to learn about these things.

The massive downside to this? I only know how to go through the ascalonian catacombs quickly and efficiently, while skipping the story and standing where I’m told to stand. I only know how to do story mode and path 3. in short, I only know the status quo, because by relying on the community to teach, unless you happen across a very, very patient group of people willing to explain everything to you, you will only be shown the quick and easy way to do what the majority like to do the way the majority like to do it.

Tasty Pudding.3764:

It is not so much hand holding as that there are 80 levels and they needed to add a sense of progression across all those levels instead of a burst to level 30 followed by a trickle of trait points for the last 50 levels. If you want to get everything by level 30, then there is no reason to have a level cap higher than level 30.

They should have just made the cap 30, or 40 at most.

Dragging it out doesn’t do anything positive.

I feel like they should have made the tutorials an actual tutorial. Atm it just throws you out there, providing nothing but a small snippet of the story in an instanced gameworld.

Honestly, Anet really hit the nail on the head for tutorials/start game when they made GW:NF. It was interactive, it explained everything and if you really wanted to, you could skip it.

Unless they didn’t include the option for a full tutorial in their testing, I don’t see how someone could value level-gated skills and features as better >_>

Selene.9415:

I feel like they should have made the tutorials an actual tutorial. Atm it just throws you out there, providing nothing but a small snippet of the story in an instanced gameworld.

Honestly, Anet really hit the nail on the head for tutorials/start game when they made GW:NF. It was interactive, it explained everything and if you really wanted to, you could skip it.

Unless they didn’t include the option for a full tutorial in their testing, I don’t see how someone could value level-gated skills and features as better >_>

Can’t help but feel like this was just the easier coughcheapercough option.

and I have just been made aware that apparently the simple starting task of FEEDING A kittenING COW has been dumbed down to oblivion and turned in to a single button press mechanic.

Just what.

I through this game was rated T, not 3+

This is a dumb people game. Get used to it. You should have gotten the feel for this by now if you’re lvl 40. This game is a (very) casual and easy MMO. If you want a harder experience, you’re going to have to look somewhere else.

MidnightStar.2960:

This is a dumb people game. Get used to it. You should have gotten the feel for this by now if you’re lvl 40. This game is a (very) casual and easy MMO. If you want a harder experience, you’re going to have to look somewhere else.

I am so horrifically disappointed. When I picked up GW2, I had hoped ArenaNet had kept their principals from my GW1 days (ie, lots of communicating, great customer service, and giving the players what they want and need) it seems I was mistaken.

I will persist with GW2, but if all else fails, I still have my Archeum AA founders pack

rapthorne.7345:

I wouldn’t even know about the existence of the ascalonian catacombs and other dungeons were it not for my guild talking about them in teamspeak.

Um you get an in-game mail that tells you a new dungeon has been opened to you when you reach certain levels. Level 30 being the first time, for AC. It even shows you on the map where the dungeons are.

It was a waste of time an energy to rework a system that may marginally help a few players (apparently the dumbest they could find) but annoy the rest of the player base.

Dance for the cows! Rub corn! Press F ’til you decide to find another game! Do ncsoft and anet want to kill this product this badly?

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

Not just China.

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi everyone,

I’m going to paraphrase Colin on this topic. The decision to implement the New Player Experiment system came from tens of thousands of usability testers and interviews with players who tried Gw2 and left leading up to China launch both in NA/EU and in China. It came as a surprise to us but it was an important for us to acknowledge that a number of systems, downed included, were difficult to understand for many players.

For the downed, system we tried a downed tutorial, building downed into the level 1 tutorial and other ideas. After usability testing with numerous different groups, we found that the best rate of people learning and understanding it came from having it be layered complexity and the solution we went with above. Intuitively that wouldn’t have been my guess either initially, but we found people understood it better this way than all other options we tried.

This same level of testing led to the other changes as well. At the end of the day the biggest take away is that all of us (including a lot of people on the forums) probably know games (and Guild Wars 2) really really well. We have millions of users, and a tiny percentage of them frequent game forums. Just because all of us learned those systems well and thought it was all really easy doesn’t mean we are the norm.

I hope this helps everyone here understand that this was a decision to improve the game for many people. Thanks for your understanding

This is what happens when companies use focus groups. They never reveal the true expectations from the players.

Is this the feedback topic for the leveling changes? I have to vent a bit, forgive me:

But ANet, you went WAY overboard with these changes. You stripped basic mechanics from the game and the classes and made it so much more harder to get into the good stuff. I’m borrowing someone else’s bullet points from Reddit, because they echo mine:

“Weapon skills are level-gated. You get access to all your weapon skills by level 10
You don’t have steal. No idea when that opens up.
You start with signet of malice instead of hide in shadows. This is probably the least offending one, but I still don’t like it. Stealth is a core mechanic for thieves, as is Steal. No reason to gate it behind levels.
You unlock the ability to dual wield weapons on level 7, weapon swap is 15.
Utility skills unlock on levels 13, 24 and 35. Elite is 40.”

PLEASE think about this again. You effectively ruined starting a new character for veterans and in an attempt to make the game better for new players, made it equally more boring.

The thing is that a lot of games (not NCsoft ones) have been pretty successful at making even small changes for localized versions outside of Korea. Tera, and I think even Archeage has some west specific details that differentiate the product from their asian player base. Hell, even Blizzard has a separate version of WOW for their chinese players.

Why can’t the NA/EU version of GW2 be different from the Chinese version? I wouldn’t be surprised if this was some misguided executive decision from Anet’s parent company to supposedly “streamline” the two versions.

There’s nothing wrong with catering to your Chinese player base, but I don’t think altering the Western version, which has been around much longer with established veteran players, is a good idea. It is definitely discouraging to new players and gives them a bad first impression of the game. Not to mention disheartening for those loyal veteran players.

I’d actually like to believe that this is down to blind stupidity on ArenaNet’s behalf.

But let’s face it, this is all about squeezing more money out of people through the gemstore. Within the next month or so, you’ll see new items added that allow players to bypass the “tutorial” segments of the game.

Say goodbye to the rest of your player-base ArenaNet. You lost the founders of the game a long time ago, and now you’re being ran by inexperienced industry noobs.
And boy, does it show.

Mungrul.9358:

But let’s face it, this is all about squeezing more money out of people through the gemstore. Within the next month or so, you’ll see new items added that allow players to bypass the “tutorial” segments of the game.

I’d like to hope that’s not true, but who knows. This patch is clearly a very poorly informed decision on ArenaNet’s part. so it makes me worry about what other bad choices there will be in the future

bump

So basically with these changes, I should grind myself to 40 as fast as possible and then I can stat to “play the game” without feeling like a kitten 1 armed no legs monkey.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

This ^ specifically number 2.

Apparently people are dumb, like it or not.

Not to long ago I remember we were complaining that we were getting Level 80s that don’t know how to dodge roll. Guessing those debates sunk in.

@Dual:

It may have sunken in but the conclusions they drew from it are weird.

Dodging is a bad example because for exactly that they did the right thing: they added a tutorial.

But the solution to teach players game mechanics cannot be to deny them said mechanics. To learn to use all your weapon skills instead of 1 it is advisable to teach them all skills. Not to deny them these skills longer than before.

It makes the first levels easier but also more boring.

I remember fondly my first character. I was level 2 and the whole world was open for me. After a very short time I could use all my weapon skills. And I needed them. And that made the combat awesome.

Now I am led by an arrow, doing 1111, taking care not to step into water (no underwater combat for me), no enemies who force me to dodge or apply conditions, so that 11111, standing still, is actually good enough… That is not that fascinating.

Dual.8953:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

This ^ specifically number 2.

Apparently people are dumb, like it or not.

Not to long ago I remember we were complaining that we were getting Level 80s that don’t know how to dodge roll. Guessing those debates sunk in.

Imo, the dodge “game” is great. Skill unlocks? Not so much. Easy way to fix this for the vets is to just make it optional. Traits are bad enough as is, but give our alts their skills.

If this change really helps new players, then they’ll see the effects in time. Just don’t make it mandatory.

I just wanted to add my two cents on this new leveling experience Just in case a dev takes the time to read these. I have 14 characters, 9 level 80s, and 5 low level toons. I enjoying building a new character and leveling it in a different way than I have previously (the way I want). But this new system of leveling that the Devs claim to be a better, easier, more fun experience is the complete opposite. There is absolutely nothing i find fun about the leveling experience any more. I used to love jumping on one of my baby toons and play for a couple hours how ever i wanted with the ability to change my skills and traits whenever I felt like something new, or if i wanted to test a new build. Now everything about the leveling system is gated and forces me to painfully grind to level 40+ just to finally have a character with most of the skills i want. Why do you feel it’s necessary to grind 10 levels just to START your story… Who thought that making us grind another10 levels just to start the next chapter was a good idea? What happened to Arenanet’s famous “Level the way YOU want” stance?
I no longer have any motivation to play new characters anymore… and my 80s have done all the “end game” that gw2 has to offer… That leaves me with only the Zergfest known as WvW. It sad that such a great game keeps making terrible decisions. If these changes are permanent, then there is nothing left for me here. Ill be back when they finally introduce a new race or class or something.

These leveling changes are terrible and are not Helpful at all.

You know, everyone started this game as a new player…..and it really wasn’t that hard to learn. I mean, how hard can it be? You unlock one ability at a time – and that takes a couple of kills to do at a low level. Are you telling me that there are players that can’t read a newly unlocked ability every five kills or so?

And then once you do that intro quest, you are spat out in the real world to do… what exactly? When I was a new player, I had the npc/mail/quest tracker say “talk to that scout” (icon on map) and LOW AND BEHOLD the scout gives a nice summary of what to do in the world. “Go and find challenges” (indicating skill points) “You can travel with these” (indicating waypoints) “go and help people” (Indicating hearts). What was wrong with that system? It was clear and insightful. It made people (or me and my guildies, at any rate) want to go out and GET those waypoints and help those people and do those skill challenges! The story was right there to get stuck into.

I made a new character to see things from a new player….and guess what? As an long time player, I know what the hearts and vistas and skill points mean. As a new player, I imagine a person starting in the world thinking “now what? where are the quests? What do I do?”

And the “Minitures have been hidden due to rising player population.?” I’m watching my wife’s character now. Can’t summon a mini due to the “rising population” but she gets a kitten invite to a denser map because THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PLAYERS IN HER CURRENT ONE! I had better stop my rant before I find I’ve pulled out all my hair.

Preparing to have fun.

Paradox.1380:

1. They tested it in China. Works great for them.
2. Do NOT place your knowledge base/experience on others in shoddy “Everyone Knows” science.
3. ANet has more metrics and more information than you ever will about the over-all feeling of the start of the early game.
4. I am sorry you don’t like this change/idea but its already coming, adapt or move on is all I can tell ya.

1. I’m not Chinese. I don’t live in China. I don’t have the same personality, ideals, or anything like them.
2. It’s not an ad populum argument like you assume. The average player is not a braindead imbecile. The AVERAGE player knows what they are getting into when they see “MMORPG.” I paid for an MMO, not an iPhone game. Tetris is far more interesting at this point.
3. Assuming that’s true in any way, they sure as hell are doing a great job at alienating everyone they claim to be working for. Your benevolent metrics don’t take players into account because they don’t exist or don’t represent the actual players. It’s like having a politician as a middleman, one we didn’t choose or vote for but one that is there talking for us nonetheless. This is killing the product, plain and simple.
4. This is not an issue of adaptability. Adaptation is what makes things interesting. Adaptation is what we had before this patch: now we are reduced to children sitting on Santa’s lap and asking him ‘how does snow happen.’ The only thing to do at this point is for people to take their business elsewhere. I personally am not going to spend another dime on this game until they do something about what they have done to it.