Arenanet has broken its promise

Arenanet has broken its promise

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Posted by: Chasind.3128

Chasind.3128

Guild wars 2 has lost that aesthetic for me. I could get behind the aspect of guild wars 2 at 1st. It was like a gw1 renaissance & I had tons of freedom. I loved the Edwardian fantasy theme But with heart of thorns & everything with it- it’s the same bones but a new, ugly face. I get on for a few hours to pvp then get off.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

On the contrary, it succeeded wonderfully. The game is still going strong with most of the core components of the original game (no traditional trinity, no competition for nodes, shared loot, no gear treadmill, play as you like to earn rewards, etc)

“Play as you like to earn rewards” = false.

Many things force you to play raid, or fractals or wvw if you want to earn them. Even if you don’t want to.

A lot of the older players were drawn into the game by the so called “manifesto”. And they failed on a lot of points on it.

GW2 is not a bad game, but it’s far from what many of the first players expected it would be.

I play as I like and earn rewards. There are plenty of exceptions of rewards that are tied to specific content, but that was true when the game launched (e.g. dungeon skins). I don’t have to play HoT to build ascended gear, which are the type of rewards that ANet was talking about. They didn’t ever mean that you could run whatever you liked wherever you liked and get whatever you wanted; they meant that you could get top gear without having to repeat the same things over and over again, like people do in other games.

And sure, this game isn’t the way it used to be. But honestly, it was never the way that some people expected or wanted. Like any good gaming company, ANet keeps evolving the game into something that lots of people like. It might no longer appeal to everyone who preordered it in 2012, but it appeals to tons of people 5 years later. Since every game loses its early adopters, bringing in new people is the better benchmark for success.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

On the contrary, it succeeded wonderfully. The game is still going strong with most of the core components of the original game (no traditional trinity, no competition for nodes, shared loot, no gear treadmill, play as you like to earn rewards, etc)

“Play as you like to earn rewards” = false.

Many things force you to play raid, or fractals or wvw if you want to earn them. Even if you don’t want to.

A lot of the older players were drawn into the game by the so called “manifesto”. And they failed on a lot of points on it.

GW2 is not a bad game, but it’s far from what many of the first players expected it would be.

I play as I like and earn rewards. There are plenty of exceptions of rewards that are tied to specific content, but that was true when the game launched (e.g. dungeon skins). I don’t have to play HoT to build ascended gear, which are the type of rewards that ANet was talking about. They didn’t ever mean that you could run whatever you liked wherever you liked and get whatever you wanted; they meant that you could get top gear without having to repeat the same things over and over again, like people do in other games.

And sure, this game isn’t the way it used to be. But honestly, it was never the way that some people expected or wanted. Like any good gaming company, ANet keeps evolving the game into something that lots of people like. It might no longer appeal to everyone who preordered it in 2012, but it appeals to tons of people 5 years later. Since every game loses its early adopters, bringing in new people is the better benchmark for success.

“ply as you like and get rewards” was a stupid thing to say to begin with. It shouldnt have been said by the developers.

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

As someone who mostly PvP and WvW i do feel a little cheated in those aspects.

Anet sold GW2 on a play your way style. And to me they delivered on GW2 release.

Also why do people feel so entitled for S1. It was a live event, if you werent here you missed it. Its like saying ohh i didnt get see Magic vs Bird in the NBA finals live so ill never watch basketball.

I personally dont care for the episodes of the LS. It feels like a chore now where i re-enter a instance a few times to get AP points or finish them to get a item. Anet said they were doing away with killing X monster X time to get X quests done.

To me everything about HOT is grind, do AB event 100 times for title, get into X map 20 minutes before the meta event or you fail. Complete X hearts, X amount of times to get a back piece.

GW2 when it first came out was about exploring, was about leveling to 80 to get to the next maps or to buy a book to unlock the next level of spec lines you could use. It about fun.

For me, i would of preferred is LS was the end game content like it was in LS1. I mean the castle in Kessex hills, the 2 dungeons they turned into fractals, The Gauntlet, Marrionette and the Lions Arch events were amazing.

They were live and they were difficult, so there was a level of passion people had for it. For people who missed it, i think they needed a live/in game cinematic to show the story and to create some hype.

Just for me, this game has become a very stale grindy MMO. PvP has turned more into skill rotations then actually watching my opponent. WvW is cluttered with condi and peoples new elite garbage.

And PvE has become the most stale, HOT had a very short story and only 4 maps to start. Now they bring out new maps that you need to repeat or dump gold into to finish.

To me they did break the promise on what the game was suppose to be. Im not mad that they did but im mad that they changed what GW2 was and turned it into a generic MMO.

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

The first living story is very interesting, I like it. The newer ones are good but not as epic.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

As someone who mostly PvP and WvW i do feel a little cheated in those aspects.

Anet sold GW2 on a play your way style. And to me they delivered on GW2 release.

Also why do people feel so entitled for S1. It was a live event, if you werent here you missed it. Its like saying ohh i didnt get see Magic vs Bird in the NBA finals live so ill never watch basketball.

I personally dont care for the episodes of the LS. It feels like a chore now where i re-enter a instance a few times to get AP points or finish them to get a item. Anet said they were doing away with killing X monster X time to get X quests done.

To me everything about HOT is grind, do AB event 100 times for title, get into X map 20 minutes before the meta event or you fail. Complete X hearts, X amount of times to get a back piece.

GW2 when it first came out was about exploring, was about leveling to 80 to get to the next maps or to buy a book to unlock the next level of spec lines you could use. It about fun.

For me, i would of preferred is LS was the end game content like it was in LS1. I mean the castle in Kessex hills, the 2 dungeons they turned into fractals, The Gauntlet, Marrionette and the Lions Arch events were amazing.

They were live and they were difficult, so there was a level of passion people had for it. For people who missed it, i think they needed a live/in game cinematic to show the story and to create some hype.

Just for me, this game has become a very stale grindy MMO. PvP has turned more into skill rotations then actually watching my opponent. WvW is cluttered with condi and peoples new elite garbage.

And PvE has become the most stale, HOT had a very short story and only 4 maps to start. Now they bring out new maps that you need to repeat or dump gold into to finish.

To me they did break the promise on what the game was suppose to be. Im not mad that they did but im mad that they changed what GW2 was and turned it into a generic MMO.

Lw is actually the main endgame it progresses the story and its max lvl content only it also has the bigger team at anet with 3 teams working on lw alone. The rest i upposedly filler with replaability for the downtime inbetween releases.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

The first living story is very interesting, I like it. The newer ones are good but not as epic.

Well they ad the balls to make changes to the actuall world. This is omething i praised them for and im really sad to not see in se3. Also the fact that season 3 has been a collection of different event thrown into the same season with usually 2 lines of dialogue connecting them and not a coherent plot.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

On the contrary, it succeeded wonderfully. The game is still going strong with most of the core components of the original game (no traditional trinity, no competition for nodes, shared loot, no gear treadmill, play as you like to earn rewards, etc)

“Play as you like to earn rewards” = false.

Many things force you to play raid, or fractals or wvw if you want to earn them. Even if you don’t want to.

A lot of the older players were drawn into the game by the so called “manifesto”. And they failed on a lot of points on it.

GW2 is not a bad game, but it’s far from what many of the first players expected it would be.

I play as I like and earn rewards. There are plenty of exceptions of rewards that are tied to specific content, but that was true when the game launched (e.g. dungeon skins). I don’t have to play HoT to build ascended gear, which are the type of rewards that ANet was talking about. They didn’t ever mean that you could run whatever you liked wherever you liked and get whatever you wanted; they meant that you could get top gear without having to repeat the same things over and over again, like people do in other games.

And sure, this game isn’t the way it used to be. But honestly, it was never the way that some people expected or wanted. Like any good gaming company, ANet keeps evolving the game into something that lots of people like. It might no longer appeal to everyone who preordered it in 2012, but it appeals to tons of people 5 years later. Since every game loses its early adopters, bringing in new people is the better benchmark for success.

Sadly success is so mainstream. Instead of creating the unique experience they set out to do and defying existing conventions they did “listen to the community”a tad too much to also keep those goals.

While aiming high is great, and getting that big audience and such might get the bigger bucks or whatever, it comes at the cost of uniqueness and taking less and less risks.

You could smoothtalk it like a businessperson, or you talk passionately about a game that could be more. In the end it really should be something in between. In fact I would wager that the more Guild Wars 2 tries to get more and more players by trying to appease to the biggest audience it would lose some of it more unique flavours and become a bit more bland.

In the end, you could say LW1 was a failure or did not work, or whatever opinion you hold, but if you were there, and you took part in it, that is something that has shaped Tyria forever. That’s an experience no one who will start playing this game will ever have, not even if they bring it back. Because if they bring it back, it will be different, and it will have a completely different experience as you can replay it. Same with other parts or other NPCs now gone.

In a way, I would almost suggest that they shouldn’t bring LW1 back ever, because it would taint that experience. Except that now the story is cut into pieces, which just reads/plays like a book with a few chapters missing.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: Ashantara.8731

Ashantara.8731

Founder Mike O’Brien did not leave.

Yes, my bad. The others did, making him the only original founder left. Maybe that’s part of the problem?

I don’t know, it’s just that I feel that the game has nothing more to give, while it could have been so much more. It’s one big “same old, same old” with no variety whatsoever.

For some reason, the devs believe that adding jumping mushrooms and oakheart essences makes for variety, but it does not. The game doesn’t make you feel, it doesn’t truly touch you and excite you (not anymore). It’s just fighting one big bad after another, with no real personal involvement in the story, no personalized content based on race and background story, no nothing that makes for an exciting RPG experience.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Founder Mike O’Brien did not leave.

Yes, my bad. The others did, making him the only original founder left. Maybe that’s part of the problem?

I don’t know, it’s just that I feel that the game has nothing more to give, while it could have been so much more. It’s one big “same old, same old” with no variety whatsoever.

For some reason, the devs believe that adding jumping mushrooms and oakheart essences makes for variety, but it does not. The game doesn’t make you feel, it doesn’t truly touch you and excite you (not anymore). It’s just fighting one big bad after another, with no real personal involvement in the story, no personalized content based on race and background story, no nothing that makes for an exciting RPG experience.

The game doesn’t make you feel, it doesn’t truly touch you and excite you (not anymore). It’s just fighting one big bad after another….

I wonder though if part of the problem with an unexciting story line lies with the original choice of antagonist. Which is elder dragons that are portrayed more like forces of nature than thinking, scheming creatures. There’s only so much one can do with a story about battling a force of nature. By itself the plot is going to be linear and simplistic, since a dragon has limited ways to twist and turn the plot. That’s maybe why they brought in the White Mantle so there can be betrayal and human motives, but that’s only part of the main, linear plot. imo they’d be better off getting rid of the ‘elder dragons eating magic’ plot line as soon as possible and bring in plot lines that can have more depth.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Falseprophet.1502

Falseprophet.1502

Founder Mike O’Brien did not leave.

Yes, my bad. The others did, making him the only original founder left. Maybe that’s part of the problem? -snip-

I think this is an unfair and not entirely accurate statement. Two of the three original founders left shortly after Guild Wars 2 was even teased in 2007 (remember the PCGamer magazine) and before that, they were more involved with other NCSoft entities.

MMOs will always have a grind. Where is all the complaints about the ridiculous grind we had in Guild Wars 1? Title reputation grinds? Now, I am no Colin Johanson fan, but he made a real legitimate point in a recent interview. To paraphrase, he talked about having such limited time and resources to implement all the Guild Wars: Prophecies quests and story line with like a week before launch. Guild Wars launched. People ruthlessly criticized the game, et cetera. Guild Wars 2 launched and GW1 instantly became the best game ever?

To the @OP, I participated in the beta events and I am almost certain hearts existed during those beta weekends. I am not entirely sure when you played during 2012 but they’ve definitely been implemented since launch.

(edited by Falseprophet.1502)

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Posted by: Stevieboy.4192

Stevieboy.4192

But I was told I wouldn’t have to grind, that’s why I started playing GW2 in the first place…

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

But I was told I wouldn’t have to grind, that’s why I started playing GW2 in the first place…

If you are referring to the grind quote from the manifesto, that’s only about grinding (repeatedly killing) mobs to gain xp to level. If anyone told you different based on that quote then they were mistaken.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Stevieboy.4192

Stevieboy.4192

Oh, so I don’t have to grind levels, just everything else?
Sounds fun…

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Oh, so I don’t have to grind levels, just everything else?
Sounds fun…

Only for skins which are optional in the sense that content isn’t locked behind gear with the exception of high level fractals. Fortunately you don’t gain much, as far as content goes, by doing higher level fractals over the lower levels.

Grind is also a necessity for MMO’s as none can generate enough content to keep players occupied. Players have complained about content droughts for quite some time. Imagine the game is there were no grind and everyone could obtain everything fairly quickly as if this were a typical single player game.

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Posted by: Stevieboy.4192

Stevieboy.4192

I don’t mind grinding to get things with in reason, I accept I have to work for the things I want but when I only get one decent drop every 3-6 months that’s worth anything, It’s hard to justify the time I pour into this game for the very minimal rewards…
Yet until the next big decent MMO comes along it’s either GW2 or the drivel on TV…

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Oh, so I don’t have to grind levels, just everything else?
Sounds fun…

If you are coming to an MMO expecting not to grind for something, then you have come to the wrong type of playstyle. All MMOs have grind. Its for stats, or gear, or cosmetics or levels, but there will always be grind otherwise people will go through the content too fast and the game depopulates and fails.

May I suggest single player games if you dislike grind. Those games don’t need a continuing population and are fine with everyone playing for a short time and then quitting.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Stevieboy.4192

Stevieboy.4192

Try reading my post above before suggesting what games I should play.
Thanks.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Try reading my post above before suggesting what games I should play.

Well, since it’s gw2 or drivel on tv until the next “decent” MMO comes along, may I suggest that you do something else instead? I mean, why waste your time on an MMO that by your description doesn’t even rate as decent? If it was me waiting for a “decent MMO” I wouldn’t even bother with the grind since I’d be abandoning the game and any progress I’d made when the decent MMO comes along.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Stevieboy.4192

Stevieboy.4192

Wait, what? Where did I describe this game as not decent?
Ah, I didn’t…
The " "s were added by you to the word decent from my post for some reason.
I’d love to stay and chat but I have things to do…
Bye, bye.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Arenanet tried to reinvent the wheel and failed catastrophically.

On the contrary, it succeeded wonderfully.

Uh, yeah it was so succesful the game lost the vast majority of its original playersbase and was forced to go F2P.

Your definition of success s a bit skewed.

Well, by your definition WoW lost most of it’s original playerbase, as has ESO and SWToR. The fact is that happens with the vast majority of games. It’s not a critera for success.

On the other hand, Guild Wars 2 makes 4 million dollars or so a month, 1.5 years after the last expansion which anyone who knows the industry would call successful.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t mind grinding to get things with in reason, I accept I have to work for the things I want but when I only get one decent drop every 3-6 months that’s worth anything, It’s hard to justify the time I pour into this game for the very minimal rewards…
Yet until the next big decent MMO comes along it’s either GW2 or the drivel on TV…

This game is a game of trickles. I barely get anything worth anything either, yet somehow I’m sitting on thousands of gold.

If all you play for is the big drop you’re probably playing the wrong game. I have enough gold for everything I want, without buying gems and selling them, btw.

Your view of the game is skewed by expectations, probably from previous games.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Wait, what? Where did I describe this game as not decent?
Ah, I didn’t…
The " "s were added by you to the word decent from my post for some reason.
I’d love to stay and chat but I have things to do…
Bye, bye.

K. Bye bye

But I’ll answer you anyway….

I don’t mind grinding to get things with in reason, I accept I have to work for the things I want but when I only get one decent drop every 3-6 months that’s worth anything, It’s hard to justify the time I pour into this game for the very minimal rewards…
Yet until the next big decent MMO comes along it’s either GW2 or the drivel on TV

Here you rated gw2 as being the entertainment equivalent of drivel on tv and that you’re waiting for the “next big decent MMO”. Now unless you’re saying that drivel on tv is at the same entertainment level as a decent MMO, then gw2 (which is on the same level as drivel according to you) is not a decent MMO.

So, you think gw2 has the same entertainment value as tv drivel and you also don’t like the grind in this game. The two are related, since of course you aren’t going to want to grind when while playing drivel level content.

Which is why I recommend you find other entertainment. Why waste your time on entertainment which is on the same level of tv drivel? But if you do stick around until the better MMO comes along, then why waste your time doing boring grind, (“Oh, so I don’t have to grind levels, just everything else? Sounds fun”) that you’re going to immediately abandon?

All MMOs have grind. Your next decent MMO will have grind. If you are not enjoying it then other entertainment is better.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Founder Mike O’Brien did not leave.

Yes, my bad. The others did, making him the only original founder left. Maybe that’s part of the problem?

I don’t know, it’s just that I feel that the game has nothing more to give, while it could have been so much more. It’s one big “same old, same old” with no variety whatsoever.

For some reason, the devs believe that adding jumping mushrooms and oakheart essences makes for variety, but it does not. The game doesn’t make you feel, it doesn’t truly touch you and excite you (not anymore). It’s just fighting one big bad after another, with no real personal involvement in the story, no personalized content based on race and background story, no nothing that makes for an exciting RPG experience.

The game doesn’t make you feel, it doesn’t truly touch you and excite you (not anymore). It’s just fighting one big bad after another….

I wonder though if part of the problem with an unexciting story line lies with the original choice of antagonist. Which is elder dragons that are portrayed more like forces of nature than thinking, scheming creatures. There’s only so much one can do with a story about battling a force of nature. By itself the plot is going to be linear and simplistic, since a dragon has limited ways to twist and turn the plot. That’s maybe why they brought in the White Mantle so there can be betrayal and human motives, but that’s only part of the main, linear plot. imo they’d be better off getting rid of the ‘elder dragons eating magic’ plot line as soon as possible and bring in plot lines that can have more depth.

There is a reason why so much of the emphasis in a great natural disaster movie is on the character interactions. The “villain” of the movie, the earthquake, or fire, or whatever, lacks the depth of an interesting antagonist. The dragons would have been better as a backdrop against which we face important dragon servitor main villains with depth and character (IMO of course).

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Posted by: Hannelore.8153

Hannelore.8153

Imagine, for a moment, that you just joined the game.

Congradulations, everything that happened in LWS1 is useless to you. You can’t even imagine it, you’re lucky if you can even get a basic idea of it.

This was a failed business model that did not have any long-term viability.

And I was there, and I took part in it. Yes, it was amazing. But here’s what I also remember: Broken servers, tons of bugs, rushed updates. Huge zergs with unplayable framerates. Frantically trying to do all the achivements in one week or see them lost forever into an ever-growing void of removed content.

The story was good. The premise was good. The execution was very bad.

Daisuki [SUKI] LGBT-Friendly Guild Leader | NA – Jade Quarry
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/

(edited by Hannelore.8153)

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Posted by: Ashantara.8731

Ashantara.8731

The game doesn’t make you feel, it doesn’t truly touch you and excite you (not anymore). It’s just fighting one big bad after another….

I wonder though if part of the problem with an unexciting story line lies with the original choice of antagonist. Which is elder dragons that are portrayed more like forces of nature than thinking, scheming creatures. There’s only so much one can do with a story about battling a force of nature. By itself the plot is going to be linear and simplistic, since a dragon has limited ways to twist and turn the plot. That’s maybe why they brought in the White Mantle so there can be betrayal and human motives, but that’s only part of the main, linear plot. imo they’d be better off getting rid of the ‘elder dragons eating magic’ plot line as soon as possible and bring in plot lines that can have more depth.

Well said. I 100% agree with your sentiment.

Another problem is the boredom that derives of the fact that things that were initially in the game, and that represented a great foundation for diverse, personalized story-telling, were completely abandoned in future content: the choice of race and character background, the implementation of “personality” — they were all there, but instead of expanding on that, everything was linearized, thus simplified, and the focus was put on other things that just can’t make up for the lack of variety (bouncing mushrooms, grinding maps,…).

Quoting myself from another thread:

You know what I did these past couple of months out of sheer boredom? I started collecting legendary weapons I don’t need to feel like I was playing some “unique” content, and making new characters I don’t need of professions I already have only so I could play through different personal story options in order to experience that thrill of feeling like my choices during character creation somehow matter.

I believe many people have more than nine characters (one for each profession) for that very reason. It is the only part of the whole story (from two campaigns and three LW seasons!) that actually makes you feel like your race etc. matters. What a waste of potential in this game!

When they said they would stop producing content for GW1 (which was never an MMORPG but an action online multiplayer game) because they came to realize its limitations as to what they can do, therefore had decided to start working on GW2 instead, most players were thrilled over the prospect of playing a real Guild Wars MMORPG in the future.

Then they basically did the same to GW2 after its release: they stopped developing the aspects that make for a great MMORPG and started focusing on action aspects only — the only difference between GW1 and GW2 currently being that now we can jump, glide and fly, and soon even ride through the mobs.

(edited by Ashantara.8731)

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Posted by: Mavis.1463

Mavis.1463

I’d look at what an MMO is as GW1 wasn’t one.

Address the points I’ve made~

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Posted by: Psientist.6437

Psientist.6437

I don’t think the studio has broken any promises but I do think they can be insincere. They would never put a tier above Legendary, just increase the stats for Legendary so the Ascended tier could be added. Prior to launch, the studio certainly suffered from ‘disruptor-itise’, a condition where everything in the rear view mirror but your own reflection is smaller than it appears.

If I use the studio’s definition of ‘grind’ and ‘play as you like’, I can’t call them dishonest. I just think their reward meta is insincere. The meta has become dominated by optional rewards with heavy workloads with little to no relevance to Tyria or the LW. At best, rewards are thematic trinkets. We’ve reached a place where the best defense white knights can use is that rewards are optional and don’t really matter.

I don’t think the story or dragons as the antagonist is the problem. I think how the LW merchandises itself is the problem, only offering irrelevant cosmetics is the problem. Sure, they generate reliable economic activity but they also describe a sentiment that every fantasy story I have read ridicules, foppish heroism. Imo, the LW doesn’t need to be more exciting, just offer more sincere rewards. I think we would be surprised by how that effects the studio’s approach to story telling and zone design.

“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human

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Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

I don’t mind grinding to get things with in reason, I accept I have to work for the things I want but when I only get one decent drop every 3-6 months that’s worth anything, It’s hard to justify the time I pour into this game for the very minimal rewards…
Yet until the next big decent MMO comes along it’s either GW2 or the drivel on TV…

If you’re playing for the drops, that’s your problem. The game’s primary reward is the exploration and gameplay, not the items.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Wait, what? Where did I describe this game as not decent?
Ah, I didn’t…
The " "s were added by you to the word decent from my post for some reason.
I’d love to stay and chat but I have things to do…
Bye, bye.

K. Bye bye

But I’ll answer you anyway….

I don’t mind grinding to get things with in reason, I accept I have to work for the things I want but when I only get one decent drop every 3-6 months that’s worth anything, It’s hard to justify the time I pour into this game for the very minimal rewards…
Yet until the next big decent MMO comes along it’s either GW2 or the drivel on TV

Here you rated gw2 as being the entertainment equivalent of drivel on tv and that you’re waiting for the “next big decent MMO”. Now unless you’re saying that drivel on tv is at the same entertainment level as a decent MMO, then gw2 (which is on the same level as drivel according to you) is not a decent MMO.

So, you think gw2 has the same entertainment value as tv drivel and you also don’t like the grind in this game. The two are related, since of course you aren’t going to want to grind when while playing drivel level content.

Which is why I recommend you find other entertainment. Why waste your time on entertainment which is on the same level of tv drivel? But if you do stick around until the better MMO comes along, then why waste your time doing boring grind, (“Oh, so I don’t have to grind levels, just everything else? Sounds fun”) that you’re going to immediately abandon?

All MMOs have grind. Your next decent MMO will have grind. If you are not enjoying it then other entertainment is better.

He seems to indicate that he is playing gw2 instead of the drivel on tv, which implies that he considers gw2 to be the better option.

By saying, “the next decent mmo,” he seems to be indicating another decent mmo in addition to one he is already aware of. As gw2 is the only mmo he has indicated he is playing it is implied that gw2 is the decent mmo he is aware of.

Decent does not mean above complaint. I would consider decent to be below good, but not bad. I believe gw2 is at least a decent mmo, but, like anything produced by humans, possessing flaws.

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Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

Arenanet tried to reinvent the wheel and failed catastrophically.

In paper, GW2 was supposed to be an innovative MMO, but in practice it was an awful, clunky mess.
These “broken promises” are an attempt to fix an unfixable game, by turning it into a more traditional MMO.

Blaming “traditional mmo players” is silly. The ones at fault are Arenanet and the people who bought into their ideas in the first place. Renown Hearts were in the game since Beta, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

It’s funny how you’re associating Arenanet’s mistakes and failures as hallmarks of traditional MMOs, when games like FFXIV are extremely succesful (even with a sub fee) while GW2 was forced to go F2P to maintain a relatively decent playerbase.

tl;dr play another game

F2P? Hardly. PFF is an enticement. It isn’t actually getting to play the game for free. The limitations for PFF are there for a purpose. If you want to experience the real game then you have to pay for it.

“Failed catastrophically?” This actually made me laugh out loud. Anet is still hiring for GW2 and they are coming out with continual living stories and releasing an expansion soon. Companies with failing games do not have the resources or willingness by their corporate owners to invest further into a game that is failing. They move on to something else.

The manifesto was a statement of intent. It wasn’t a promise or a legally binding contract. It was what they had hoped to do and nothing more. Times changed. So did the game. So too did their intentions of what they wished to do.

And as far as your assessments of “awful clunky mess”, “unfixable game”, etc. They are not facts. They are simply your opinions. You have every right to your opinions, but they are not statements of facts, and the rather large player base that still exists would refute you opinions IMO.

I’d look at what an MMO is as GW1 wasn’t one.

Address the points I’ve made~

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Game developers change course all the time… Stop bringing up 6yo pr ads for the game and acting as if they are some constitutional gw laws the devs can’t deviate from. It’s frivolous complaints like these that reinforce their current communication restrictions.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

@ zealex.9410

I agree that it is but it feels like a chore and isnt interactive in anyway. Its really us the players replaying the same story mode over and over.

Which goes back to the OP, did Anet break there promise? In the current system you have to say they did. The current LW/LS is exactly what they said they wouldnt do.

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

Game developers change course all the time… Stop bringing up 6yo pr ads for the game and acting as if they are some constitutional gw laws the devs can’t deviate from. It’s frivolous complaints like these that reinforce their current communication restrictions.

You are correct to say that game developers change course and Anet has that option.

But you are incorrect in saying no one should complain. If anyone reads this thread, they can see the different things Anet does as a game developer.

We as consumers have legit complaints that can be made and we should be allowed to express our frustration. Especially since it allows other players/former players/ or people interested in the game to know what is happening from certain points of views.

I work in a restaurant, it is considered a nicer restaurant and with that comes the responsibility. We charge higher prices for the food we serve since its considered to be of better value. What we have on the menu needs to be available and done well.

Anet sold HOT, they said New Specs would not be super powered compared to core specs but allow a different style of game play. That was a lie with the Angry Joe interview.

HOT promised legendary armor which took over a year, raids that took months and simply put they truly destroyed WvW and PvP with the introduction of the HOT expansion.

Now we go back to what the GW2 when it first came out. It took some years but they delivered us what they promised. A live interacting world where our actions actually changed the world. Whether you liked LS1 or not they delivered what they were serving.

Here we are 6 years later. Anet had said things before and now they say nothing most of the time. For everyone who is gonna buy the expansion there is someone who will not. And then there are those who might be on the fence and these are the things they need to know as a consumer.

For me as someone who mostly PvP and WvW, i will not buy the expansion since they have only recently made both playable.

For me and my guild mates, the new Map Areas and Living Story are kind of a chore. They were not what we signed up for they have also said they will not buy the expansion on release. ( 2-3 said they will) Many of us will wait for the reviews come out.

The company has the right to change the direction but as a consumer i have the right to say on threads/ to other people playing the game. This is not what i ordered.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

For every post in this thread claiming to like the idea of a living world, one could find hundreds (well, you could if forum search worked) of posts complaining about content not being available after the chapter’s window had passed. I remember ANet saying other things besides the stuff in the OP’s linked videos. Among those were statements about ANet being an iterative development studio, that is attempting to do innovative things. When innovative approaches don’t work, are unpopular, or are not sustainable, they try something else.

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Posted by: Mavis.1463

Mavis.1463

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

No more an MMORPG than Diablo 2. The wiki also got recently changed on April 27th to show MMORPG where it has been shown as competitive/cooperative online rpg.

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

The term ANet used to describe the game was CORPG.
Competitive Online Role Playing Game

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:CORPG

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

The short answer would be Dragon’s Stand. To be fair content doesn’t scale so it may actually be more fun if the difficulty of the content was based upon the amount of players. The problem with DS is that even with soo many events they have to reset the map to start the chain over, otherwise they would have to make constant changing content to a degree that no system or group of developers realistically can maintain for the lifespan of an MMO.

At the end of events in DS, now the dragon is dead and the map is all friendly. What events next that wouldn’t either have to be overwhelming odds to return the map to hostile starting the chain over or a whole new set of events that would have to take the story in a different direction never to return. For some players they would feel gipped if they couldn’t have the opportunity to the fight the dragon or play that part of the story. (I’m mad that I can never play season one, never experience the story.) And last how could Anet ever really refine content when it’s one and done?

It sounds cool, though in retrospect there will have to be replay of events since there’s really no logistical way to make ever changing content in a game. You’re right they did take shortcuts, but given the size of their team and resources it may actually be the best they can do with the resources they have.

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Posted by: Mavis.1463

Mavis.1463

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

The wiki also got recently changed on April 27th to show MMORPG where it has been shown as competitive/cooperative online rpg.

lol
Because there’s no such thing as a “CORPG”.
That’s a term coined by anet to make GW1 stand out.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

The wiki also got recently changed on April 27th to show MMORPG where it has been shown as competitive/cooperative online rpg.

lol
Because there’s no such thing as a “CORPG”.
That’s a term coined by anet to make GW1 stand out.

Gw2, WoW, ESO, those are all MMORPGs. GW is a lobby game with instanced maps. The difference is in the playing area. While you can stand around in the cities, the actual maps you play on in GW are solo to up to 8 people. Up to 8 people is not Massively Online for the parts where people play.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Mavis.1463

Mavis.1463

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

The wiki also got recently changed on April 27th to show MMORPG where it has been shown as competitive/cooperative online rpg.

lol
Because there’s no such thing as a “CORPG”.
That’s a term coined by anet to make GW1 stand out.

Gw2, WoW, ESO, those are all MMORPGs. GW is a lobby game with instanced maps. The difference is in the playing area. While you can stand around in the cities, the actual maps you play on in GW are solo to up to 8 people. Up to 8 people is not Massively Online for the parts where people play.

cool

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

The term ANet used to describe the game was CORPG.
Competitive Online Role Playing Game

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:CORPG

A rose by any other name…

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

I would say Ayrilana did address one of your points. Please read your own post. You were the one that claimed GW1 was an MMO.

lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars
“Guild Wars is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG)”

The term ANet used to describe the game was CORPG.
Competitive Online Role Playing Game

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:CORPG

A rose by any other name…

And sometimes people use a word because the language lacks a better term.

There’s a big difference between an MMORPG such as WoW or GW2 with persistent maps and a game like GW where people can log on at the same time but the maps are instanced.

In a true MMORPG you should be able to reach the other person on the map they are on (within reason). In GW, once they are on a map you can not reach them or play with them them until they leave the map and go to a city. For most people, outside the lobbies GW was played like a single player game. Only a few regularly joined up and those were typically one or two others. There was a reason why the game had heroes and sold mercenaries in the game store.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

And sometimes people use an invented word to ignore all similarities between GW1 and GW2 and take the stance that you cannot compare them regardless of the similarities, merely to prove people wrong.

I mean, you don’t go around saying that Raids, Dungeons, Personal Story and living world instances cannot be a part of an MMORPG because it’s technically “CORPG”-material.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

(edited by FrizzFreston.5290)

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

You know, the information found in Wikis is only as good as the lay-person editing the page. Anyone can edit a page and place whatever information they choose.

There aren’t enough non-stardard MMO-type games, probably, to merit a CORPG separate entry.

Of course, that doesn’t make a game any less a CORPG, rather than a true persistent-world MMORPG.

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Posted by: Conner.4702

Conner.4702

You know, the information found in Wikis is only as good as the lay-person editing the page. Anyone can edit a page and place whatever information they choose.

There aren’t enough non-stardard MMO-type games, probably, to merit a CORPG separate entry.

Of course, that doesn’t make a game any less a CORPG, rather than a true persistent-world MMORPG.

Just need to point out that GW2 does not have a true persistant world either. It’s all instances. So I guess GW2 is a CORPG too

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Just need to point out that GW2 does not have a true persistant world either. It’s all instances. So I guess GW2 is a CORPG too

The difference between GW1 and GW2 is that in GW1 you cannot see other players out in the world. GW1 was the same as Diablo outside cities, I don’t see anyone calling Diablo an MMORPG

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Posted by: Zok.4956

Zok.4956

Hello, I have been playing GW2 since 2012, and recently I have been thinking about quitting because Arenanet has broken its promise, which you can see in those old trailers

So you play the game for around 5 years and now you think about quitting the game because you have seen two marketing videos that are around 5 years old and now you think A-Net broke a promise?

Wouldn’t that be a little bit ridiculous?

My firm belief on why Arenanet has abandoned it is vision …

I do not think that A-Net has abandoned its vision.
As an example: I see the living maps that tell a story with events und NPCs every day I walk through those maps. Of course there are not much new things to discover (besides living story and expansions) if a player has played a game a few years.

This (made with high artistic quality) very detailed, living world is (for me) the one most outstanding “promise”/vision of A-Net.

However, I can’t help but feel that GW2 is becoming just like any other repetitive MMO.

Every MMO is repetitive and has grind. Yes, they all are the same overall.

Difference in GW2: You do not need to grind for gear that is required for content. You get it usually when you play the game-(mode). And you do not need to grind for better gear again when an expansion increases the level-cap (which it usually does in other games) and devaluates every old gear.

If you do not like the actual game, thats a valid opinion.
But I think blaming A-Net for breaking a promise is wrong.

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Posted by: blade eyes.2034

blade eyes.2034

Hello, I have been playing GW2 since 2012, and recently I have been thinking about quitting because Arenanet has broken its promise, which you can see in those old trailers

So you play the game for around 5 years and now you think about quitting the game because you have seen two marketing videos that are around 5 years old and now you think A-Net broke a promise?

Wouldn’t that be a little bit ridiculous?

My firm belief on why Arenanet has abandoned it is vision …

I do not think that A-Net has abandoned its vision.
As an example: I see the living maps that tell a story with events und NPCs every day I walk through those maps. Of course there are not much new things to discover (besides living story and expansions) if a player has played a game a few years.

This (made with high artistic quality) very detailed, living world is (for me) the one most outstanding “promise”/vision of A-Net.

However, I can’t help but feel that GW2 is becoming just like any other repetitive MMO.

Every MMO is repetitive and has grind. Yes, they all are the same overall.

Difference in GW2: You do not need to grind for gear that is required for content. You get it usually when you play the game-(mode). And you do not need to grind for better gear again when an expansion increases the level-cap (which it usually does in other games) and devaluates every old gear.

If you do not like the actual game, thats a valid opinion.
But I think blaming A-Net for breaking a promise is wrong.

You’re making a wrong assumption here. You think that I just saw those two old trailers and suddenly decided that Arenanet has broken its promises. No, when Arenanet announced Heart of Throne I was excited, I didn’t know what Arenanet was going to bring with it. I assumed they would build on their original vision and address the issues they had with it. Instead, they banned the idea of living breathing world for one that is static with maps that no longer change but stays the same for farming. The idea of “The Story Journey” originally came from the community as a way for new players to have access to season 1 story since the story was mostly instanced outside the big events that came with it. With HoT GW2 became something different, and now I know what it is.

Lastly, “Every MMO is repetitive and has grind.” I’ll just say this, Guild Wars 2 wasn’t supposed to be like every MMO and it wasn’t for a while.