Guild Wars 2

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In light of a couple of recent threads I noticed, one of in which some users showed their complete lack of consideration for anyone else, and another where the user was complaining about the game direction not following his expectations within his time frame, I think that the game devs need to remember that there are a lot of people who just quietly enjoy the game and we do appreciate their efforts.

Not all of the content works for me, as I have my likes and dislikes and there’s certain directions I’d like to see the game grow in, but I’ll live with what the GW2 team does.

It also seems to me to be incredibly difficult to address PvE, WvW, PvP, dungeon fanatics and jumping puzzle fans all at once.

I agree, people definitely need to be much more considerate when they post suggestions for the game, but then again, their complaints and suggestions are valid. When Anet keeps pushing out the same repetitive content over and over again, just changing it a little to fit the story, there are bound to be complaints. What I mean by that is: It’s the same content. “Go get X amount of items. Press F 200 times on some of these items. Now go visit 20 different important people that I’ve never heard of, so they’re obviously not that important.” It’s the same content that’s repeated every patch, it’s just a change of scenery depending on where Anet sends you for the event. I’m guessing there are so many complaints because this is not what players expected when Anet said they were doing the “Living World”. It doesn’t feel alive to me at all when all that happens is a change in scenery instead of a change in gameplay. I expected hordes of undead to rise from the ground underneath a certain area and begin attacking nearby villages. I expected a dragon to land in Divinity’s Reach and begin killing everyone in sight. I expected a tear in the space-time continuum that brings abaddon back from the past and puts him directly in LA. That is Living World, or at least what my expectations and many other player’s were.

Tl;dr – People are rude when they complain, but their complaints are founded. Anet could improve the Living Story a ton, and they could magically watch the complaints gradually vanish. Granted, there are always the minority that will continue to criticize and belittle ANet’s every move, nonetheless it could still be improved.

I read the article linked by the OP.

Late last month, Treyarch studio design director David Vonderhaar took to Twitter to announce a patch to popular first-person shooter Call of Duty: Black Ops 2. The seemingly innocuous changes included reducing the damage of one weapon and rate of fire on two others. The changes, which were fractions of a second, spurred threats of violence online and an editorial by Activision social media manager Dan Amrich.

I don’t usually use terms like this but people that make threats of violence against game developers because of something in a game truly do need to get a life. Then again I don’t have much positive to say about people who make threats of violence in general.

Sadly some people are just like that.

I work for a charity that provides people completely free access to services that would normally cost them hundreds, or potentially thousands, of pounds. At least once a week someone will scream down the phone at us about how stupid and inconsiderate we are, how we clearly don’t care about them and can’t be bothered to do our jobs properly and how they’re going to go to the media, or sue us or go over our heads and get us all fired for not bowing to their every whim and doing it all instantly.

And it’s still better than what I got when I worked in customer services where people were paying for my companies products but didn’t need any of them.

I think some people just have this idea that if you’re providing something they want or need, especially if they’re paying you (or your company) for it then you’re somehow beneath them and obligated to give them whatever they want, whenever they want it.

Galtrix.7369:

[…] I expected hordes of undead to rise from the ground underneath a certain area and begin attacking nearby villages. I expected a dragon to land in Divinity’s Reach and begin killing everyone in sight. I expected a tear in the space-time continuum that brings abaddon back from the past and puts him directly in LA. That is Living World, or at least what my expectations and many other player’s were.

I know where you’re coming from here. Unfortunately I think the personal story is too intermingled with the current set of zones. There’s too much investment in the dragon/undead storyline so it’s too difficult for them to make major changes.

This is why I think new zones would be good. It would be nice to see a zone grow from an unpopulated empty area into something more. Maybe someday this will happen.

The game engine will also need a major rewrite in order to support permanent content changes (instead of just cycling through at a set location). This is a very difficult task.
The game engine also needs changes in order to support an army moving into and populating an area. Monster locations are still too static. And doing these things while keeping game server performance reasonable is not so easy.

The online anonymity is a huge part of it. Some people think the rules just don’t apply and they can unleash their inside voice without consequence. Add to that the sense of personal insult some fools get when they don’t get exactly what they think they want the moment they want it and they go out of control.

I have a friend who has been a game writer on three MMO’s, including one coming out in the near future. He’s gotten death threats.

I’m a public defender. I’ve been pretty lucky in all the years of doing that to only have one actual threat (from an alleged victim who didn’t like me getting a not guilty for my client). Then again, I am face to face with clients and witnesses and I treat them all with respect. Plus, well, I have a lot of law enforcement near me while I work … There’s no anonymity and that makes people rein themselves in.

On the other hand, I also get the clients expecting me to be Perry Mason, or to have the resources to investigate every detail and prepare every question in advance. Who think that because I cut them off after getting the essential details of their story that I’m not listening to them and they need to get a “real” lawyer.

Danikat, if you’d said dollars rather than pounds I’d have bet you and I have shared clients

Interesting article. Eerily relevant.

Thanks for linking it.

The thing I find funny is that people theorize that others act this way because it is online and misses the social cues. I act like this in real life, too. But online, its like everyone also has aspergers.

Anyway, something I’m noticing is the lack of perspective from the players, so allow me to give the other side of the debate: videogames are a lot like drugs that operate on operant conditioning methods to provide a sense of satisfaction far beyond basic biological needs. Reckless use of videogames leads to compulsion and to addiction, which can ruin education, ruin relationships, and ruin lives. When people make videogames, they make more than just entertainment. They are making a device which operates on psychologically subconscious principles that compels people to play the game, sometimes even when they really don’t want to play the game.

“Even when they don’t want to play the game” is the big one here. Often times, people will find themselves trapped in the more skinner-box like games, returning only for fear of losing out on the new better-than-ever limited time and necessary for PVP weapon, or for fear that their town will become overrun with weeds and the next time they play will be a boring grind to remove them all, or that their guild will disband because there is a mandatory attendance requirement for all those who joined. You hear complaints about it from guild wars 2, as well. The whole “time gating is annoying”, “dailies feel like work”, “No more temporary content”, those are complaints about factors that are in the game that compel players to do things that they don’t want to, otherwise they end up missing out. GW2 is a bit more lenient with this, because they don’t actively punish players for not participating as much as they just deny rewards (laurels, specific skins, mystic coins), and it just happens that everyone else will end up getting these rewards, so you are only indirectly punished for not playing the game.

Put all of that together, and you’ll find there is quite a lot of animosity toward the developers. This is one side of the coin. There is another which makes people hate developers:

Sometimes it is about a passion that is strong in the game. When there are things that players love to do, when they get an unholy amount of enjoyment from the way they play the games. The hard part is, then the way they play the games gets changed. Classes become “balanced” in a way that their favorite methods are ruined completely, bugs get introduced that linger around for months that ruin certain playstyles (coughfixturretsnowcough), sometimes things get outright removed from the game that people loved to do. Think about the current champion farms, then think about all of the people who lose out. The people who liked to do dungeons, the people who liked to do chest events, the people who liked to do fractals, the people who liked to do dynamic events, all these are diminished because the champion farm has taken away people who would otherwise be doing all of those things.

So when people find out that the one true joy of their lives is being ruined by the devs, they respond with unnatural hostility.

This isn’t just true for videogame developers. Any place where there is some kind of power struggle that compels people toward a behavior, whether it be illegal like drugs or “legal” like oppressive economies and governments, you will see this hated. Any place where the passion is killed, you will see that hatred crop it. I wouldn’t call anyone “responsible” over the issue as much as I’d say it is an unfortunate fact of reality.

Xar.6185:

Interesting article. Eerily relevant.

Thanks for linking it.

Absolutely. I hope we see a trend of people moving away from the “it’s cool to be a troll” aka hate monger and a little more personal responsibility.

Edit – Good points Blood Red Arachnid. It’s always good to look at the other side. I think there is also a problem with people not knowing how to properly communicate their dissatisfaction with something, and can only express their frustration through those means.

Well … this is the result of almost 30 years of a culture & education system where kids was allowed to do whatever they want, especially in the Cyberspace!
This “special treatment” give’s them the illusion, they are kings of the World & Illusions of grandeur!!

They just will learn they are wrong the day that some one will shoot them in the head, or spank them!!
That day they will learn that in the real world, there are also real people, and not just a bunch of virtual “NPC’s”!

…But that day will be too late already!!

Whether your criticism is valid or not is irreverent. People who say “but their complaints are valid” are completely missing the point. Right or wrong, always express your opinions in a respectful manner.

There was just a double murder in my state; charged against a guy who had a prior restraining order against him for putting a knife to his victim’s throat; and who had a prior murder indictment that was dropped because a key witnesses didn’t show. Real world psychopaths actually minimally bluff, posture, and self-aggrandize publicly before they act, because they know word of mouth will build them up afterwards. No one seems to take real death threats serious anymore because of those ‘crying wolf’ for attention and personal brand-marketing.

Using the internet, despite what people say about anonymity, is much safer than working in many public service sector positions, and way safer than winning at competition (like a sport) against people of a sub-culture that prizes owning a record of notoriety. One day you’re out playing, and some pick-up starts losing; then starts cheating and playing dirty and still loses; so he starts an argument and then says he’s go bring a knife/group of people. 1 in 4 brought what they claimed when saying this, but they might have just wanted people to run, because everyone got away safely. Or, you’ve seen someone get angry with everyone, and pick up a long metal object or broken bottle that was on the ground nearby, but you doubted he was going to do anything serious because it was broad daylight with multiple witnesses. A typical ‘personal threat’ is made in an environment where there is no evidence that can be utilized by the legal system. As long as you aren’t the last witness remaining; as long as you aren’t in the middle of an impersonal crime spree; you aren’t in high danger.

If you click the second link within the article, it doesn’t actually give any examples of threats of intent. “Die in a fire”, “kill yourself”, “you should have been aborted”… these are scumbag things to say [and people have said them to me and people I know before] but they don’t represent an intent of bodily harm, just harassment. I also noticed that this developer makes a product that simulates violences and revolves a game around using it as a means of winning… The game itself is filled with double-speak language: players threaten to kill and shoot each other all the time, but it doesn’t actually mean much; until a person comes along sensationalising it as a grave threat by over-personalizing and framing comments out of context. Even if these were to actually consitute threats, game developers are still on the ‘sheltered’ side of life; especially that of being a public figure, or of being someone who’s actually talented at something and has to deal with envious rivals. Threats of stalking and attack online (mostly used to intimidate females, although I’ve gotten some wierd ones myself) look way more serious than someone being commanded to die. One time, I caught a guy making up a story about knowing a cancer victim personally (didn’t even know the type of cancer), and he said that I deserved to get a fatal form of cancer. Does that count as a threat now? Because I don’t treat someone’s poorly-expressed fantasies as intent.

First world problems… where people detached from violence make hyperbole about the ironic circumstances they actually live in. Shouldn’t developers have felt sorry that their player base already had to cope with this stuff and develop a means of brushing it off almost daily while they were wracking in the money? For those who receive serious threats, they can just “contact customer support” and hope the automated response team solves everything; meanwhile, developers now go to authorities and the media to boost their ‘streed cred’ like rap superstars, while still having the power to track down/document threats and issue impersonal group punishment.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I read the article linked by the OP.

Late last month, Treyarch studio design director David Vonderhaar took to Twitter to announce a patch to popular first-person shooter Call of Duty: Black Ops 2. The seemingly innocuous changes included reducing the damage of one weapon and rate of fire on two others. The changes, which were fractions of a second, spurred threats of violence online and an editorial by Activision social media manager Dan Amrich.

I don’t usually use terms like this but people that make threats of violence against game developers because of something in a game truly do need to get a life. Then again I don’t have much positive to say about people who make threats of violence in general.

And the fanbois/astroturf accuse GW2 players of being babies. When things get nerfed around here its by 200% or something near that. And they occur at least half a year after release and usually is not a nerf to a recent buff.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The thing I find funny …

I wouldn’t call anyone “responsible” over the issue as much as I’d say it is an unfortunate fact of reality.

It is possible to understand the behavior of those who become abusive. However, because these behaviors are understandable does not make them acceptable. Behaviors like those described in the article occur because the people acting this way have either chosen not to be responsible for their own actions, or never learned that personal responsibility is important. Because one understands the cause of behaviors does not mean one ought to excuse the people who in fact are responsible.

Sadly, a lot of people will post in this thread and go on to complain about how much ArenaNet has “failed” somehow in providing them with nearly a year of free content and fun. If the game isn’t fun anymore, take a break. Taking it out on the developers isn’t going to solve your problems and it’s less likely to get any attention at all if you have nothing constructive to say. As someone seeking access as a character designer in the industry, and having worked on Indy games that got little to no attention I’d appreciate, for my own future and that of every game developer, if you all would be a bit more kind. The Internet is a powerful tool, but you shouldn’t forget that it’s not lawless. You can still be issued a court order if harassment goes too far, and I don’t think anyone wants to fly 3,000 miles or more because they said something they might regret and changed someone’s life forever.

It’s a cultural thing as well as anything else. People don’t see the people they’re affecting. It’s not just anonymity, it’s the inability to empathize.

It’s easy to press a button knowing someone will be hurt when you press it. It’s much harder to press a button and watch someone being hurt. Most people won’t think if they don’t see the reaction, but if you show them the hurt, they wouldn’t do it.

This is something you don’t see online. If someone gets hurt by what you do, you can’t see their pain. It’s not just that you’re anonymous, it’s that the other person doesn’t exist in a practical way.

Of course, everyone on the other end of the computer is a person and has feelings. Consideration would be easier of people simply remembered this.

well there’s always the Uwe Boll approach to put those scary mean critics in their place

This article tho’, seems more geared at the fanatics who basically stalk Devs or do other stupid borderline illegal crap. Real harassment. Frequently reminding people in a service industry that their product is heading downhill or that it’s riddled with bugs isn’t nice or polite … but it’s not Harassment either. Even verbal abuse is pretty darned limited due to the equally zealous moderating here. So I’m not really sure what this has to do with these forums.

With how big games have gotten and the millions of players these days it’s no surprise. It’s just a matter of time before someone puts a real life beating or worse on a dev. Look at all the crap that has gone on between players over the years. People are too serious about these games.

^that’s more of an issue with real life (especially in america) gradually losing all sense of purpose. It’s no longer escapism, for some people it’s literally their new life b/c conditions in their neighborhoods or careers are deteriorating so quickly.

You hear it all the time actually…. if they didn’t have that world to spend most of their time in, they’d probably for-realz-kill some of the equally stressed out and combative rude people around them.

Well i also can see this in another angle…:

- Devs create the “drug” to addict us!
- Then they announce that a “Drug II Formula” will be released soon…
- When that new "Drug enhancement came out, Drug addicts notice it is nothing even similar to what they normal used, it is not in that they are addicted!
- Time pass and the Devs continue to “change” that new formula each week, and so The old “Drugged players” are forgotten in the void!

So, if we think a little bit in that parable, don’t you start to think who is really the ones to blame here!!
- The bad educate & rude angry Mob , screaming desperately for they’re Drugs…
; or the Devs that started to “addict” them with a superb Drug, and later “transformed” all the used formula!!??

First story I remember hearing about someone getting wasted over a game was out of China. I was playing EQ back then and couldn’t believe it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4072704.stm

People need to not be so sensitive.

You have to be a jerk in order to get a response, thats just how it is.

“South Korea has a section of its police force that investigates in-game crime.”

Oh gosh, I hope we don’t come to this point…

Zayd Akira.1942:

“South Korea has a section of its police force that investigates in-game crime.”

Oh gosh, I hope we don’t come to this point…

No wonder there were no trolls when I got my hands on ArcheAge O_O. I had no idea.