Guild Wars 2

I’m waiting until Tuesday, but I hear you.

People have been against or indifferent about ascended (or any increase in gear tiers) ever since GW2 launched.
Why on earth would they keep doing something which has an overall negative reaction from their playerbase?

I quit this game for 8 months, came back hoping to see things becoming better, but it seems Anet is not making a game for me.
I waited so many years for this game, and I can’t help but feel betrayed about this. This is the absolute opposite of what I thought the progression in this game would be.

Seriously, you make BiS gear and you expect people not to try to go for them? If it’s not such a big deal why not make ascended gear as easy to access as exotics? I hate people saying “you don’t need ascended”, if I don’t need them over exotics, THEY DON’T NEED HIGHER STATS THAN EXOTICS.

eh… as I previously said, I quit for 8 months, and what I’m seeing… I didn’t delete everything gw2 from my computer in hopes of them setting things right, but once the crafting patch hits… I’m out permanently.
This game’ll leave a sour taste in my mouth, because I’ll be left feeling like all they wanted was for me to buy the game after which I became worthless to them.

MikaHR.1978:

Ayrilana.1396:

There are diminishing returns. Adding 10 power when you have 100 power is not the same as adding 10 power when you have 1,000 power. As you increase power, eventually you reach a point where the increase is only marginal. I believe that there was a thread many months ago with stating this but with toughness.

Theres no dminishing returns in GW2. Period.

Adding 10 is adding 10 power and incresing you damage for that 10 power for same amount whatever your start point is.

Yeah most people take things like precision as having a diminishing return but it’s not really since it’s actually a inverse relationship based on level scaling. So once you hit level 80 it will always be 21 points for 1% of crit chance. All stats function similarly this way in that they always provide the exact amount of benefit ratio wise.

mrstealth.6701:

Zindrix.1750:

MikaHR.1978:

Ayrilana.1396:

There are diminishing returns. Adding 10 power when you have 100 power is not the same as adding 10 power when you have 1,000 power. As you increase power, eventually you reach a point where the increase is only marginal. I believe that there was a thread many months ago with stating this but with toughness.

Theres no dminishing returns in GW2. Period.

Adding 10 is adding 10 power and incresing you damage for that 10 power for same amount whatever your start point is.

Even so, she is ignoring the fact that the weapon could have a higher base damage anyways, which is multiplied by power for your overall attack.

They do have higher base damage. We saw this back in November when they accidentally buffed legendary weapons to their ascended tier stats. This was quickly patched, but the information was already out.

A greatsword went from 995-1100 to around 1045-1150, a 50 point (approx) increase to the base damage. That’s about 4-5% in just the base damage, the +stats were also increased by an amount comparable to other ascended gear.

If they implement in that way, the ascended weapons will be a must to have. Unlike the trinkets.

Depending on the way to get them, I’ll just leave the game if they implement in that way and be time gated.

I’ll I will not care if they only get a +10/5/5 status boost (or something like that). But again, we have no information of how it’ll be. I’m really concerned…

Mikau.6920:

mrstealth.6701:

They do have higher base damage. We saw this back in November when they accidentally buffed legendary weapons to their ascended tier stats. This was quickly patched, but the information was already out.

A greatsword went from 995-1100 to around 1045-1150, a 50 point (approx) increase to the base damage. That’s about 4-5% in just the base damage, the +stats were also increased by an amount comparable to other ascended gear.

If they implement in that way, the ascended weapons will be a must to have. Unlike the trinkets.

Depending on the way to get them, I’ll just leave the game if they implement in that way and be time gated.

I’ll I will not care if they only get a +10/5/5 status boost (or something like that). But again, we have no information of how it’ll be. I’m really concerned…

I hope that base increase is gone, too. But I expect it to still be there when these new weapons show up next week. And a blog post earlier this summer already stated that the new materials will be account bound and daily limited.

The only way around the timegate will be legendaries, so legendaries will now have a somewhat pay2win factor to them. This is, of course, very limited buy the extreme cost/effort of a legendary, but it is still there. Those that already have legendary weapons will have a definite advantage over those that do not until the timegating allows others to obtain ascended weapons.

mrstealth.6701:

Mikau.6920:

mrstealth.6701:

They do have higher base damage. We saw this back in November when they accidentally buffed legendary weapons to their ascended tier stats. This was quickly patched, but the information was already out.

A greatsword went from 995-1100 to around 1045-1150, a 50 point (approx) increase to the base damage. That’s about 4-5% in just the base damage, the +stats were also increased by an amount comparable to other ascended gear.

If they implement in that way, the ascended weapons will be a must to have. Unlike the trinkets.

Depending on the way to get them, I’ll just leave the game if they implement in that way and be time gated.

I’ll I will not care if they only get a +10/5/5 status boost (or something like that). But again, we have no information of how it’ll be. I’m really concerned…

I hope that base increase is gone, too. But I expect it to still be there when these new weapons show up next week. And a blog post earlier this summer already stated that the new materials will be account bound and daily limited.

The only way around the timegate will be legendaries, so legendaries will now have a somewhat pay2win factor to them. This is, of course, very limited buy the extreme cost/effort of a legendary, but it is still there. Those that already have legendary weapons will have a definite advantage over those that do not until the timegating allows others to obtain ascended weapons.

Well tell me whats the point getting ascended weapon if their damage will be on par with exotic? +3 power bonuses? Anyone im asking ingame is actually happy thakittens coming out..Forums seems to think different. I don’t know..will 50 more atk change a lot? In pure zerker in actually getting 3962 attack with bloodlust stacks and 0 might.

If crafting Ascended gear follows the same crafting “rules” as Exotics?

I don’t think there will be a problem on picking which one to make, and depending on how the materials and amounts is set it may be feasible to do multiples.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Well tell me whats the point getting ascended weapon if their damage will be on par with exotic? +3 power bonuses? Anyone im asking ingame is actually happy thakittens coming out..Forums seems to think different. I don’t know..will 50 more atk change a lot? In pure zerker in actually getting 3962 attack with bloodlust stacks and 0 might.

Infusion slots.

Assuming higher-tier content is coming (“Hard Mode” or a specific set of areas set to be 80+) there is a potential for Agony to be involved. If it’s in an open world event, that Agony may be made to scale up to kill . . . I mean meet . . the power of the zerg.

In that case, anything you could possible manage to fit Agony Resistance into is good, and the more options of where to put it the better.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Well tell me whats the point getting ascended weapon if their damage will be on par with exotic? +3 power bonuses?

The same point in getting an ascended ring over an exotic ring. Those +stat points, which are more than a +3 difference. I think the accidental upgrade put them at +15-20 over exotics. I’m thinking it was +18 for a 2H weapon.

Just look at an exotic vs ascended ring. The exotic ring(including its gem) gives +92 to its major stat, and the ascended ring gives 103. That’s an 11 point difference. A 1H weapon gives 90 points(almost the same as a ring) and a 2H gives 179 (about 2x a ring or 1H weapon). Expect a similar percentage increase there as well.

Scoobaniec.9561:

mrstealth.6701:

Mikau.6920:

mrstealth.6701:

They do have higher base damage. We saw this back in November when they accidentally buffed legendary weapons to their ascended tier stats. This was quickly patched, but the information was already out.

A greatsword went from 995-1100 to around 1045-1150, a 50 point (approx) increase to the base damage. That’s about 4-5% in just the base damage, the +stats were also increased by an amount comparable to other ascended gear.

If they implement in that way, the ascended weapons will be a must to have. Unlike the trinkets.

Depending on the way to get them, I’ll just leave the game if they implement in that way and be time gated.

I’ll I will not care if they only get a +10/5/5 status boost (or something like that). But again, we have no information of how it’ll be. I’m really concerned…

I hope that base increase is gone, too. But I expect it to still be there when these new weapons show up next week. And a blog post earlier this summer already stated that the new materials will be account bound and daily limited.

The only way around the timegate will be legendaries, so legendaries will now have a somewhat pay2win factor to them. This is, of course, very limited buy the extreme cost/effort of a legendary, but it is still there. Those that already have legendary weapons will have a definite advantage over those that do not until the timegating allows others to obtain ascended weapons.

Well tell me whats the point getting ascended weapon if their damage will be on par with exotic? +3 power bonuses? Anyone im asking ingame is actually happy thakittens coming out..Forums seems to think different. I don’t know..will 50 more atk change a lot? In pure zerker in actually getting 3962 attack with bloodlust stacks and 0 might.

That +50 more base is multiplicated with your power, so, if have around 1920 of power (full zerker with exotics / with no power from traits) and your enemy have 2500 of defense, it will be 764 – 844 from exotics to 802 – 883 to ascended, wich is huge (also consider that ascended can have more stats), even more if you even consider the critical + crit dmg. A full zerker will be even more discrepant from other builds.

just bumping, hoping devs/designers will read it.

doubt anyone likes time gated stuff…. I would rather them not implement ascended gear/new mats in the next patch and take the time to better it (lots of ideas on forums… rarely replied to).

Scoobaniec.9561:

mrstealth.6701:

Mikau.6920:

mrstealth.6701:

They do have higher base damage. We saw this back in November when they accidentally buffed legendary weapons to their ascended tier stats. This was quickly patched, but the information was already out.

A greatsword went from 995-1100 to around 1045-1150, a 50 point (approx) increase to the base damage. That’s about 4-5% in just the base damage, the +stats were also increased by an amount comparable to other ascended gear.

If they implement in that way, the ascended weapons will be a must to have. Unlike the trinkets.

Depending on the way to get them, I’ll just leave the game if they implement in that way and be time gated.

I’ll I will not care if they only get a +10/5/5 status boost (or something like that). But again, we have no information of how it’ll be. I’m really concerned…

I hope that base increase is gone, too. But I expect it to still be there when these new weapons show up next week. And a blog post earlier this summer already stated that the new materials will be account bound and daily limited.

The only way around the timegate will be legendaries, so legendaries will now have a somewhat pay2win factor to them. This is, of course, very limited buy the extreme cost/effort of a legendary, but it is still there. Those that already have legendary weapons will have a definite advantage over those that do not until the timegating allows others to obtain ascended weapons.

Well tell me whats the point getting ascended weapon if their damage will be on par with exotic? +3 power bonuses? Anyone im asking ingame is actually happy thakittens coming out..Forums seems to think different. I don’t know..will 50 more atk change a lot? In pure zerker in actually getting 3962 attack with bloodlust stacks and 0 might.

I don’t think damage works this way. Because damage is (simplistically) power * weapon damage, if weapon damage goes up by 5% your total damage goes up by 5%.

For example, assume weapon damage goes up by 50 and say power goes up to by 10 points.

So before you were had a power of 2962 and a weapon damage of 1000.
Now you have a power of 2972 and a weapon damage of 1050.

Because damage is multiplicative. Your old base was 2962*1000 or 2962000. You new base is 2972 * 1050 or 3120600.

Which is a 5.3% increase in damage.

Edit: Ninja’ed while I played with math.

5.3%, damage, extra health you will be missing after being attacked. If you ever ran away with a sliver of health…

:/ wish they kept gw1 style of gearing…. max stats easy to get, cosmetics you worked for.

Zero Day – remember, the only people this game has in common with GW1 are the PR people, and the company head. The devs all moved on to other projects before GW2 was released.

It’s not being made by the same people, nor is it being made for the same fanbase. It’s entire design is based around getting you to spend more money.

The requirement to get ascended everything to stay competitive will result in either 1) people never playing an alt, or 2) people buying their way to the even playing ground with the 24/7 grinders, 3) people quitting when they can’t stay competitive.

Oh – apologies – the most hated Dev at Anet is still part of it. Izzy Cartwright – the man who smiter’s booned smiter’s boon – the skill balance dev who didn’t actually play – he’s still involved.

Zero Day.2594:

5.3%, damage, extra health you will be missing after being attacked. If you ever ran away with a sliver of health…

Now add to that higher chance of crit (more prec) and stronger criits (better crit damage). Modify for power/prec/crit dam increase on other gear pieces. Expect 20-30% increase in damage.

@stale , sad but true…. GW1, your builds werent locked in by your gear… like i use pvt/zerker for most standard builds, condition builds would require a complete different set…. just feel nostalgic by the name.

@Astralporing , yup means that an ascended geared is that much deadlier then you in a fight. You can shrug it off, say it’s like using rares vs exotics, but fact remains they’re deadlier then you.

Zero Day.2594:

@stale , sad but true…. GW1, your builds werent locked in by your gear… like i use pvt/zerker for most standard builds, condition builds would require a complete different set…. just feel nostalgic by the name.

The difference was max stat gear was very easy to get in GW1, much easier than exotic in GW2. I’d say somewhere between masterwork and rare gear, in terms of cost/effort.

I thought exotic was a bit much, at first. But after playing for a bit, I didn’t have any issues with the effort in getting exotic gear.

I don’t so much mind them introducing Ascended gear. I have been using the same exotics for a long time (with a very few Ascended trinkets), and don’t mind working toward something else.

My gripe with the current setup is that the only realistic way to get ascended items is to run fractals. I mean, I know you can buy them with laurels (I have)…but that is slow going to say the least.

So if they introduce Ascended gear and weapons that can be crafted, traded on the TP, obtained in dungeons or open world drops, etc…I am not really against it.

I do see the point of those who are against it though….

mrstealth.6701:

Zero Day.2594:

@stale , sad but true…. GW1, your builds werent locked in by your gear… like i use pvt/zerker for most standard builds, condition builds would require a complete different set…. just feel nostalgic by the name.

The difference was max stat gear was very easy to get in GW1, much easier than exotic in GW2. I’d say somewhere between masterwork and rare gear, in terms of cost/effort.

I thought exotic was a bit much, at first. But after playing for a bit, I didn’t have any issues with the effort in getting exotic gear.

Well max stat gear was very easy later in the game, but not so much easy to get it dropped with a sane Requirement and extra bonuses which you wanted. Such as Energy +5, Armor +5 . . . Health +30 . . .

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well max stat gear was very easy later in the game, but not so much easy to get it dropped with a sane Requirement and extra bonuses which you wanted. Such as Energy +5, Armor +5 . . . Health +30 . . .

Yeah, the weapons were a bit harder to come by early on, and the upgrades for them were the hardest part. You relied on your own luck or buying from other players to get upgrades. Collectors were always an option for weapons, and the mob-dropped trophies they took in trade were usually easy enough to get. The addition of unique/green items from boss mobs added a cheap supply of pre-upgraded weapons with a wide variety of stats. When Nightfall came around moving the previously inherent stat onto replacable inscriptions made getting the right weapon stat even easier.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well max stat gear was very easy later in the game, but not so much easy to get it dropped with a sane Requirement and extra bonuses which you wanted. Such as Energy +5, Armor +5 . . . Health +30 . . .

like mrstealth said… the cost/effort of getting them is way easier than exotics (oh let’s not forget that they too need runes… and with ascended they will need infusions(time gated? lauries?))
Even say for a very specific set, 55monk or 55necro… even if you built/get the gear for you can use it farm out what it cost you. But that’s another issue….

Knote.2904:

Believe items are coming out that allow you to swap stats and stuff so this shouldn’t be an issue.

I hope so. I’ve lost atleast 500 gold on runes and transmutions alone. I hope atleast cultural armor gets more than one use. Not that much to ask considering it’s price.

Zero Day.2594:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well max stat gear was very easy later in the game, but not so much easy to get it dropped with a sane Requirement and extra bonuses which you wanted. Such as Energy +5, Armor +5 . . . Health +30 . . .

like mrstealth said… the cost/effort of getting them is way easier than exotics (oh let’s not forget that they too need runes… and with ascended they will need infusions(time gated? lauries?))
Even say for a very specific set, 55monk or 55necro… even if you built/get the gear for you can use it farm out what it cost you. But that’s another issue….

Way easier than Exotics?

For both Gold, Req9 weapons “late” in the GW1 Nightfall campaign (Sunspear Sanctuary) and prestige armor (Sunspear Prestige Armor) I had almost as much “farming” to do compared to my Armageddon Armor of Balthazar I’m currently wearing. And my longbow fell into my lap at Fireheart Rise for map completion.

Even if neither had been the case, I had all necessary parts and skill for Exotic Leatherworker and Huntsman last December . . . I just hated the look of it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Way easier than Exotics?

For both Gold, Req9 weapons “late” in the GW1 Nightfall campaign (Sunspear Sanctuary) and prestige armor (Sunspear Prestige Armor) I had almost as much “farming” to do compared to my Armageddon Armor of Balthazar I’m currently wearing. And my longbow fell into my lap at Fireheart Rise for map completion.

There was no reason to have a gold weapon or prestige armor. That set of prestige armor is 15x more gold, and a good bit more materials, to make for only visual differences. Even a req 9 is questionable. Most physical damage professions would be using a build with the required stat being 12 or higher. And meeting the requirement of a weapon was really a non-issue for magic users, except for offhand/focus items (to get the full +energy). Weapon damage was not a factor for magic users most of the time because it was insignificant, and only used when you weren’t casting spells.

@Tobias
not going to argue with you, but you had to level up both LW and huntsman (resources,time), cool one fell into your lap from map completion (RNG, luck) just like you could say one fell into your lap after you beat a campaign in gw1 (gw2, you get a rare? geee thanks!). Dont remember how i got my weapons…. but if i dont means it was nothing special, not hard, not easy (though greens from bosses, were, very, very, easy), if you were going for the looks then yeah some skins would cost quite a bit.

i think you’re missing the point that, getting max stats in gw1 was easy…. going for the looks was hard.

Zero Day.2594:

i think you’re missing the point that, getting max stats in gw1 was easy…. going for the looks was hard.

Yep. Going for prestige armor was comparable to getting t3 cultural in GW2. It was 15 platinum per piece, while blue armor that had identical stats was 1 plat.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Way easier than Exotics?

For both Gold, Req9 weapons “late” in the GW1 Nightfall campaign (Sunspear Sanctuary) and prestige armor (Sunspear Prestige Armor) I had almost as much “farming” to do compared to my Armageddon Armor of Balthazar I’m currently wearing. And my longbow fell into my lap at Fireheart Rise for map completion.
.

I’m not sure that it is reasonable to compare GW1 prestige armor to GW2 non prestige items such as exotics.

If you are going to use GW1 prestige items as your basis of comparison then you should use GW2 prestige items, such as tier 3 cultural armor or Legendary weapons, as well.

Even then there is the distinct possibility of breakdown in comparison.

Zero Day.2594:

@Tobias
not going to argue with you, but you had to level up both LW and huntsman (resources,time), cool one fell into your lap from map completion (RNG, luck) just like you could say one fell into your lap after you beat a campaign in gw1 (gw2, you get a rare? geee thanks!). Dont remember how i got my weapons…. but if i dont means it was nothing special, not hard, not easy (though greens from bosses, were, very, very, easy), if you were going for the looks then yeah some skins would cost quite a bit.

i think you’re missing the point that, getting max stats in gw1 was easy…. going for the looks was hard.

So you’re not going to argue with me, then you proceed to argue with me? Awesome.

But as to “the point” I am missing? No, not really missing it, I’m pointing out it’s remarkably similar in scale when you consider the lengths of the two games. GW1 was short to max level (VERY short, even for its time) and GW2 is . . . not.

GW1 it was also incredibly easy to get max weapons with unique skins early on. Buy the GOTY edition. Woo! Problem solved

There’s a sidepoint to this too, which is simply not being talked about. GW1 was never meant to be about PvE when it was released. PvE was a training ground (so to speak) for PvP.

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Way easier than Exotics?

For both Gold, Req9 weapons “late” in the GW1 Nightfall campaign (Sunspear Sanctuary) and prestige armor (Sunspear Prestige Armor) I had almost as much “farming” to do compared to my Armageddon Armor of Balthazar I’m currently wearing. And my longbow fell into my lap at Fireheart Rise for map completion.
.

I’m not sure that it is reasonable to compare GW1 prestige armor to GW2 non prestige items such as exotics.

If you are going to use GW1 prestige items as your basis of comparison then you should use GW2 prestige items, such as tier 3 cultural armor or Legendary weapons, as well.

Even then there is the distinct possibility of breakdown in comparison.

All right then, let’s point out even easier:

Max armor was available in Nightfall at the Consulate Docks. This is almost criminally early for the campaign. By comparison, Prophecies had you slog to Droknar’s Forge which was . . . not all that easy unless you were “run”. Which was either expensive or chancy (scammers did exist and did make money off people).

This was non-prestige armor, and it still took some effort. I’ll go with Droknar’s because it was Prophecies and came first before Factions and Nightfall included comparative express trains to Lv20.

Droknar’s Forge armorsmith would make your maxed armor for 4k, 175 Cloth, and 28 Linen (a rare component, mind you). Or 4k, 175 Tanned Hides, and 28 Scales (more doable). Weapons all cost 5k and potentially some relatively expensive ingredients (Feathers, Granite, Steel).

9k required at the very least some farming OR lucky drops in Prophecies. It did become easier later, notably, but it was still going to lead into at least some farming.

I did comparatively as much farming to hit 400 Leatherworker as I would have to do to hit 9k right now in Guild Wars 1.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Way easier than Exotics?

For both Gold, Req9 weapons “late” in the GW1 Nightfall campaign (Sunspear Sanctuary) and prestige armor (Sunspear Prestige Armor) I had almost as much “farming” to do compared to my Armageddon Armor of Balthazar I’m currently wearing. And my longbow fell into my lap at Fireheart Rise for map completion.
.

I’m not sure that it is reasonable to compare GW1 prestige armor to GW2 non prestige items such as exotics.

If you are going to use GW1 prestige items as your basis of comparison then you should use GW2 prestige items, such as tier 3 cultural armor or Legendary weapons, as well.

Even then there is the distinct possibility of breakdown in comparison.

All right then, let’s point out even easier:

Max armor was available in Nightfall at the Consulate Docks. This is almost criminally early for the campaign. By comparison, Prophecies had you slog to Droknar’s Forge which was . . . not all that easy unless you were “run”. Which was either expensive or chancy (scammers did exist and did make money off people).

This was non-prestige armor, and it still took some effort. I’ll go with Droknar’s because it was Prophecies and came first before Factions and Nightfall included comparative express trains to Lv20.

Droknar’s Forge armorsmith would make your maxed armor for 4k, 175 Cloth, and 28 Linen (a rare component, mind you). Or 4k, 175 Tanned Hides, and 28 Scales (more doable). Weapons all cost 5k and potentially some relatively expensive ingredients (Feathers, Granite, Steel).

9k required at the very least some farming OR lucky drops in Prophecies. It did become easier later, notably, but it was still going to lead into at least some farming.

I did comparatively as much farming to hit 400 Leatherworker as I would have to do to hit 9k right now in Guild Wars 1.

Max damage weapons and armor could be gained from collectors. You didn’t need to craft it at Droks unless you were interested in specific skins. You were paying a premium for appearance at Droks.

Even so a non farming build could generate 5k platinum an hour if a player was interested in speeding up the process of attaining those specific skins. A farming build, fairly readily put together for those interested in such could produce orders of magnitude more (my best yield, not counting specific one time ultra valuable drops, was measured in the hundreds of thousands of gold per hour). Ive seen nothing (not claiming that it doesn’t exist) to compare in GW2.

Ashen.2907:

Even so a non farming build could generate 5k platinum an hour if a player was interested in speeding up the process of attaining those specific skins. A farming build, fairly readily put together for those interested in such could produce orders of magnitude more (my best yield, not counting specific one time ultra valuable drops, was measured in the hundreds of thousands of gold per hour). Ive seen nothing (not claiming that it doesn’t exist) to compare in GW2.

I don’t think so, based on my experience. My non-farming build could NOT generate that amount in an hour. I manged 2k during the end when I was gunning for buying parts for my Obsidian Armor. (And decided “screw it, I’ll go without”.) And that’s using farms and potential from GW1 at the end of its life cycle. In the first year with Prophecies, it wasn’t as easy and required . . . well, as you put it. It required knowing farm.

In fact, you pointing out the need to farm (even without a dedicated build) proves the point. You really needed to farm to get this “easy” gear.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Even so a non farming build could generate 5k platinum an hour if a player was interested in speeding up the process of attaining those specific skins. A farming build, fairly readily put together for those interested in such could produce orders of magnitude more (my best yield, not counting specific one time ultra valuable drops, was measured in the hundreds of thousands of gold per hour). Ive seen nothing (not claiming that it doesn’t exist) to compare in GW2.

I don’t think so, based on my experience. My non-farming build could NOT generate that amount in an hour. I manged 2k during the end when I was gunning for buying parts for my Obsidian Armor. (And decided “screw it, I’ll go without”.) And that’s using farms and potential from GW1 at the end of its life cycle. In the first year with Prophecies, it wasn’t as easy and required . . . well, as you put it. It required knowing farm.

In fact, you pointing out the need to farm (even without a dedicated build) proves the point. You really needed to farm to get this “easy” gear.

I did not point out a need to farm. I did say that it was available for those wishing to get non collector armor quicker.

Droks armor was a level of prestige up from basic max level armor (as offered by collectors). Check out the requirements for collectors armor some time. Seven of something that mobs drop pretty readily for a piece of max armor is not particularly grind or farm oriented.

I do not deny at all that making platinum in GW1 was easier later than at the start. 5k per hour with a non farming build was more in the middle of my time there. I didn’t farm with non farming builds towards the latter portion of my time in GW1 so I cannot actually say if it stayed that way.

Ashen.2907:

I did not point out a need to farm. I did say that it was available for those wishing to get non collector armor quicker.

Droks armor was a level of prestige up from basic max level armor (as offered by collectors). Check out the requirements for collectors armor some time. Seven of something that mobs drop pretty readily for a piece of max armor is not particularly grind or farm oriented.

Depends on the mob But it’s still “easier” to build your own armor, and I’d say it probably was the first path people would take rather than a scavenger hunt for the right collectors.

Not to mention a few of those trophies would require farming to get the amounts possible. Sure, if I recall right . . . you could get most of this in Talus Chute. But it’s not guaranteed and might be harder than it looked. Especially with the Henchmen in the first year. (Oh my god those useless . . . )

Then the challenge of reaching some of these collectors. The one for boots? Ew. Oh, and then the one in Mineral Springs . . . oh wait, that was only Flame Eye for Fire Magic. So if you wanted a build other than Fire Magic, you’d have to craft. Then there’s one on the Ice Floe. With Mursaat. Hehe. Wow, I forgot how annoying hunting these guys down was for me the first time.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

I did not point out a need to farm. I did say that it was available for those wishing to get non collector armor quicker.

Droks armor was a level of prestige up from basic max level armor (as offered by collectors). Check out the requirements for collectors armor some time. Seven of something that mobs drop pretty readily for a piece of max armor is not particularly grind or farm oriented.

Depends on the mob But it’s still “easier” to build your own armor, and I’d say it probably was the first path people would take rather than a scavenger hunt for the right collectors.

Not to mention a few of those trophies would require farming to get the amounts possible. Sure, if I recall right . . . you could get most of this in Talus Chute. But it’s not guaranteed and might be harder than it looked. Especially with the Henchmen in the first year. (Oh my god those useless . . . )

Then the challenge of reaching some of these collectors. The one for boots? Ew. Oh, and then the one in Mineral Springs . . . oh wait, that was only Flame Eye for Fire Magic. So if you wanted a build other than Fire Magic, you’d have to craft. Then there’s one on the Ice Floe. With Mursaat. Hehe. Wow, I forgot how annoying hunting these guys down was for me the first time.

No doubt there was some degree of effort in getting max possible gear in GW1. For me, and those with whom Ive played both games, getting max armor was easier there than in GW2. I do not find it to be particularly difficult in either game.

Getting prestige items…Difficult to really measure. I know someone who has been farming for a legendary for a year now without success. But I know people who never got their Dryad Bow.

As to prestige armor skins…the amount of in game currency required to get the most expensive set (including the most expensive runes and dyes) in the game would take me less than an hour to earn (assuming that I did not have access to my “cash” reserves) using the most efficient farm I knew of over the course of my time in GW1.

To date Ive seen nothing to compare in GW2. Its pretty clear (to me at least) that Anet wants more of a lid on the most outrageous levels of farming in the newer game.

And yeah, finding and getting to those collectors could be a challenge…but that was part of the fun for me.

Ashen.2907:

No doubt there was some degree of effort in getting max possible gear in GW1. For me, and those with whom Ive played both games, getting max armor was easier there than in GW2. I do not find it to be particularly difficult in either game.

I pretty much said the same thing, just with details about why it didn’t take me that long. But then, I totally realize I might not be the median when it comes to players. I mean, I look up info on the wiki all the time. Where to get stuff, what needs to be met in order to get the Temple Armor, how much Karma I need to save . . .

. . . really wish there was a way of getting Exotic weapons other than crafting or luck. Though I don’t think they’re particularly expensive off the TP? Would need to get online to check and can’t currently, so I won’t say much other than it may be possible.

Getting prestige items…Difficult to really measure. I know someone who has been farming for a legendary for a year now without success. But I know people who never got their Dryad Bow.

I know my brother got ALL the prestige type weapons he wanted in GW1 in a month through smart selling and never hoarding anything he didn’t immediately need. In short, he was a GW1 version of a TP flipper

As to prestige armor skins…the amount of in game currency required to get the most expensive set (including the most expensive runes and dyes) in the game would take me less than an hour to earn (assuming that I did not have access to my “cash” reserves) using the most efficient farm I knew of over the course of my time in GW1.

I gave up on Obsidian due to how ridiculously farm-intensive it was. Either to make the money to buy the parts or to farm the parts themselves. When I got less than a dozen Ectos to actually drop for me in as many UW runs? I knew that was going to be more painful than I could tolerate.

To date Ive seen nothing to compare in GW2. Its pretty clear (to me at least) that Anet wants more of a lid on the most outrageous levels of farming in the newer game.

Two words: Legendary Precursors. Sure, not armor related but . . . noooo, Precursors give Obby a run for its money on expense.

And yeah, finding and getting to those collectors could be a challenge…but that was part of the fun for me.

I went for Grandmaster Cartographer without TexMod to help me until I hit ~95% in many lands and couldn’t tell what I missed. Finding the collectors was a matter of keeping a small notepad near my desk for who collected what and if it was of any value either to trade or break down.

Again, I’m not really a standard player

Guys, this thread will get deleted if you keep talking about GW1 farming. That’s not what it’s about.

Zindrix.1750:

Guys, this thread will get deleted if you keep talking about GW1 farming. That’s not what it’s about.

Sorry, what’s it about? Oh, right.

. . . meh. Ascended Gear looks to be about as annoying as the Reputation weapons/armor were in GW:EN. In short? Until I see details I’m not going to say it’s going to kill the game.

More dangerous to build diversity is the people answering build advice with “zerk or nothing”. And they’re not that dangerous either.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

All right then, let’s point out even easier:

Max armor was available in Nightfall at the Consulate Docks. This is almost criminally early for the campaign. By comparison, Prophecies had you slog to Droknar’s Forge which was . . . not all that easy unless you were “run”. Which was either expensive or chancy (scammers did exist and did make money off people).

This was non-prestige armor, and it still took some effort. I’ll go with Droknar’s because it was Prophecies and came first before Factions and Nightfall included comparative express trains to Lv20.

Droknar’s Forge armorsmith would make your maxed armor for 4k, 175 Cloth, and 28 Linen (a rare component, mind you). Or 4k, 175 Tanned Hides, and 28 Scales (more doable). Weapons all cost 5k and potentially some relatively expensive ingredients (Feathers, Granite, Steel).

9k required at the very least some farming OR lucky drops in Prophecies. It did become easier later, notably, but it was still going to lead into at least some farming.

I did comparatively as much farming to hit 400 Leatherworker as I would have to do to hit 9k right now in Guild Wars 1.

You were really supposed to get to Consulate Docks after completing the entire starter island. People just used other players that had kept the quest required to entire that town so they could drag others along with them, usually for a fee. This is the same as getting a run to Droknar’s Forge, although typically cheaper. Even Drok’s runs actually became very and easy and cheap only a couple years into the game’s life.

While your armor costs listed are mostly accurate (you left out the headpiece cost, and the materials did very on the type), the crafted weapon cost was something most players did not bother with. As I mentioned before, weapons from NPC collectors were much more commonly used. After Factions’ release, green/unique weapons started to become much more common and cheap. And after Nightfall’s release, even a gold req 9 of a more common skin could be bought from players for much less than 5k. NPC collectors were also an option for armor, but it was inferior as it lacked the additional/varied stats of sets from armor crafters, or lacked an insignia slot after insignia upgrades replaced the inherent stats for all armor.

Comparing the gold cost of an entire GW1 equipment set to the leveling of a single crafting trade in GW2 is not much of a comparison at all. You still have to make the exotic armor with that crafting, and that still gets you only the armor.

If I had to guess, I would say an entire set of GW1 equipment could be had for about 27-28k (in the last 3 years before GW2’s release), and that is including splurging on the superior vigor rune for an additional 9hp that costs you about 10-12k more than a major rune.

mrstealth.6701:

If I had to guess, I would say an entire set of GW1 equipment could be had for about 27-28k (in the last 3 years before GW2’s release), and that is including splurging on the superior vigor rune for an additional 9hp that costs you about 10-12k more than a major rune.

I’d say it was about half that if you stuck to what you could get off crafters. Face it, materials were cheap and simple. Especially if you pegged out where Artisans were to transform (mostly) plentiful simple materials into rare ones. The Vigor Runes and dyes were the expensive part, if you had expensive tastes.

I also say it’s much easier to pay something like $10 and buy the Bonus Mission Packs or the GOTY upgrade. The BMP gave you good max-stat gold weapons for a minimum of fuss. (Especially if you did Gwen’s Story or Saul’s Story – those two were relatively simple.)

Zindrix.1750:

Guys, this thread will get deleted if you keep talking about GW1 farming. That’s not what it’s about.

My apologies.

On Topic: I think that Ascended gear may have an impact on Alts and Diversity at first but that the impact will lessen over time. Unless gaining them is hard time gated (requires getting 100 of X, can get only 1 of X per day) people will continue to amass resources over time and so make future re-gearing much easier than it will be at first.

I normally only play one main character in a game (GW1 being the exception because of the low level cap and cost of max armor…sorry, backsliding there) but I prefer to have separate armor sets for multiple builds. This means that initially I will farm for Ascended gear for my primary build, and will be bound to that build until I have time to farm for my secondary build ascended armor, and then be bound to those first two builds until I can put together the third set, etc. I will not spend money in the gem store until the process is done.

I really hope that there are competitive options beyond crafting and TP for the new ascended gear.

MikaHR.1978:

Ayrilana.1396:

There are diminishing returns. Adding 10 power when you have 100 power is not the same as adding 10 power when you have 1,000 power. As you increase power, eventually you reach a point where the increase is only marginal. I believe that there was a thread many months ago with stating this but with toughness.

Theres no dminishing returns in GW2. Period.

Adding 10 is adding 10 power and incresing you damage for that 10 power for same amount whatever your start point is.

The effect of that 10 power is less the more of it you have. Some people just don’t understand relative increases I guess.

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Ayrilana.1396:

There are diminishing returns. Adding 10 power when you have 100 power is not the same as adding 10 power when you have 1,000 power. As you increase power, eventually you reach a point where the increase is only marginal. I believe that there was a thread many months ago with stating this but with toughness.

Theres no dminishing returns in GW2. Period.

Adding 10 is adding 10 power and incresing you damage for that 10 power for same amount whatever your start point is.

The effect of that 10 power is less the more of it you have. Some people just don’t understand relative increases I guess.

Some people don’t understand the increase of weapon base damage having a greater effect on overall attack damage.

Ashen.2907:

As to prestige armor skins…the amount of in game currency required to get the most expensive set (including the most expensive runes and dyes) in the game would take me less than an hour to earn (assuming that I did not have access to my “cash” reserves) using the most efficient farm I knew of over the course of my time in GW1.

The only things that even came close (and I don’t think even these things) ended with almost everyone doing them being banned permanently…and rightfully so. Unless we’re counting power trading as farming.

(edit) there is one thing that might if you were very lucky…but I know the first chaos plains farms only lasted a few weeks before it got severely nerfed. Was still possible afterward, but it became much slower.

Sure, money was a lot easier to come by in GW1, especially later in the game. And even at the start getting max armor/weapons was less effort than getting full exotics in GW2.

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Ayrilana.1396:

There are diminishing returns. Adding 10 power when you have 100 power is not the same as adding 10 power when you have 1,000 power. As you increase power, eventually you reach a point where the increase is only marginal. I believe that there was a thread many months ago with stating this but with toughness.

Theres no dminishing returns in GW2. Period.

Adding 10 is adding 10 power and incresing you damage for that 10 power for same amount whatever your start point is.

The effect of that 10 power is less the more of it you have. Some people just don’t understand relative increases I guess.

And some people dont understand fundmentals of GW2 stat system but want to discuss it i guess.

I get what the OP is saying. I mainly play 1 char. I have 5 different builds for it that I use in WvW depending on whether I am solo roaming, commanding, zerging and another 2 which are left overs from old updates which were rendered kind of useless cause of all the changes brought to the classes. That’s a lot of Armor and weapons to upgrade to ascended if I want each of those builds to run a max effectiveness. I haven’t even started putting the infusions on my trinkets yet. I got 2 other alts that I also like to play would like to eventually gear up also. What worries me the most is that right now I have to choose a build to gear up, what if Anet nerfs the kitten out of it shortly after I’m down gearing it up and that set gets stored in the locker indefinitely like my other sets

mrstealth.6701:

Ashen.2907:

As to prestige armor skins…the amount of in game currency required to get the most expensive set (including the most expensive runes and dyes) in the game would take me less than an hour to earn (assuming that I did not have access to my “cash” reserves) using the most efficient farm I knew of over the course of my time in GW1.

The only things that even came close (and I don’t think even these things) ended with almost everyone doing them being banned permanently…and rightfully so. Unless we’re counting power trading as farming.

(edit) there is one thing that might if you were very lucky…but I know the first chaos plains farms only lasted a few weeks before it got severely nerfed. Was still possible afterward, but it became much slower.

Sure, money was a lot easier to come by in GW1, especially later in the game. And even at the start getting max armor/weapons was less effort than getting full exotics in GW2.

All of the high yield farms, that I was aware of, got nerfed eventually (with the possible exception of Serenity Temple). The vampire farm in Urgoz, Chaos Plains (that few weeks was after it became popular. It ran for a while before then), and so on.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Way easier than Exotics?

For both Gold, Req9 weapons “late” in the GW1 Nightfall campaign (Sunspear Sanctuary) and prestige armor (Sunspear Prestige Armor) I had almost as much “farming” to do compared to my Armageddon Armor of Balthazar I’m currently wearing. And my longbow fell into my lap at Fireheart Rise for map completion.
.

I’m not sure that it is reasonable to compare GW1 prestige armor to GW2 non prestige items such as exotics.

If you are going to use GW1 prestige items as your basis of comparison then you should use GW2 prestige items, such as tier 3 cultural armor or Legendary weapons, as well.

Even then there is the distinct possibility of breakdown in comparison.

All right then, let’s point out even easier:

Max armor was available in Nightfall at the Consulate Docks. This is almost criminally early for the campaign. By comparison, Prophecies had you slog to Droknar’s Forge which was . . . not all that easy unless you were “run”. Which was either expensive or chancy (scammers did exist and did make money off people).

This was non-prestige armor, and it still took some effort. I’ll go with Droknar’s because it was Prophecies and came first before Factions and Nightfall included comparative express trains to Lv20.

Droknar’s Forge armorsmith would make your maxed armor for 4k, 175 Cloth, and 28 Linen (a rare component, mind you). Or 4k, 175 Tanned Hides, and 28 Scales (more doable). Weapons all cost 5k and potentially some relatively expensive ingredients (Feathers, Granite, Steel).

9k required at the very least some farming OR lucky drops in Prophecies. It did become easier later, notably, but it was still going to lead into at least some farming.

I did comparatively as much farming to hit 400 Leatherworker as I would have to do to hit 9k right now in Guild Wars 1.

I always find it funny, because most of the people talking how guild wars 2 wasn’t grindy either are in denial or only played it after nighfall.

I know the original prophecies were difficult as hell to get fully geared. I remember having to grind ettin all summer long for superior rune of vigor (out of the hundreds of gold runes I only got 1, close to 2 months almost 4 hours a day) because I did not have 50k to blow on sigil of rune. Then you later had to grind for weapons that met a low req for the attribute you needed.

I feel like most of the people talking about grind did not play prophecies but afterwards when things were just simply easier as the result of more content.

silvermember.8941:

I always find it funny, because most of the people talking how guild wars 2 wasn’t grindy either are in denial or only played it after nighfall.

It was grindier after Nightfall.

Again, two words: Holy Lightbringer. Sure, you might be able to find a few efficient farms but they still were pretty pitiful.

Two more words: Traveler’s Gifts. Because if you thought repeating yourself for a limited amounts at a lottery box is bad with Black Lion Chests? Ooof.

Ashen.2907:

All of the high yield farms, that I was aware of, got nerfed eventually (with the possible exception of Serenity Temple). The vampire farm in Urgoz, Chaos Plains (that few weeks was after it became popular. It ran for a while before then), and so on.

Yeah, none of them lasted all that long. I think Chaos Plains went longer, but the best of it was the initial month or so after a major skill overhaul made it possible. Still stayed pretty good even after a few rounds of nerfing, but as you said, it got more popular after the initial nerfs because more knew about it.

I actually think that chapter of GW1’s life is a bit comparable to where we are in GW2 now, at least for me. I read those update notes that made the truly permanent Shadow Form possible and quite easy, and I knew it was the start of something very damaging to the game. SF lead to some economic damage, but the worst was it leading to the stifling of builds and professions that were deemed acceptable to take into end-game/high-end areas.

I see the same thing looking at the July blogpost about these new materials and the page for the SAB:Back to School release. I see GW2 going farther down this road of limiting alternate builds and characters, and further enforcing this “berserker is always best” mentality by locking players into that gear set.

Anet spent years trying to undo what they had done to GW1, but they were never willing to take the one big step to end it, making perma-SF impossible. I don’t want to see the same thing happen to GW2, because the damage here will be even worse and more widespread. It effects everyone everywhere, not just players wanting to speedclear a few end-game areas. Once the damage is done, I don’t think they’ll be willing to take steps big enough to undo it. This need to be halted and rethought before it goes any farther.