Guild Wars 2

Thats right, you heard correctly ~ this is a very much intended warning to Anet/Nexon/NcSoft. Look at all the threads, the issues about power-creeps, treadmills — all forms of progression whether its vertical or horizontal – one thing that many players totally overlook and this needs your complete attention to fix – R N G > Progression

You cannot, repeat cannot have any form of reliable progression when you are tied to RNG mechanics, it just simply does not work. And many other AAA MMo developers ever went that down path for required progression? Even well known titles like WoW never did. The players always had the tools, or access to down content – the illusion was that you needed certain gear drops to meet the criteria for a successful run.

Imagine if you needed X amount of drops from a random dungeon in order for you to progress in the game? Guild Wars 2 has that, its called Fractals – not only it requires you to be lucky in drops, also requires you to be lucky in general. Look at the requirements for certain ascended items? Thats besides the point, the point here is the RNG – look at Vials of Condensed Mist, these are a prime example of RNG, the drop rate is abyssal and they are needed (Arguably) for progression. Look at all the players essentially stuck on lower fractal levels because of the lack of Agony resistance, which is something that DOES rely on RNG to get you started. How many Vials have you found? Vs someone else in the same situation.

Case and Point – For future reference Anet/Nexon/NcSoft. If your going to have any form of dungeons or even future ‘raid’ content, you have to give the players immediate access, not have everyone jumping through hoops in the hopes they might just lucky, so far RNG has been one of the major thorns in the sides of this game, and its about time you did something about it.

Easy fix -

Vial of Condensed Mist – 50 fractal Scales

And how many of you guys think we’ll see other forms of ‘agony’ in the future for other dungeons? Thats part of the gear threadmill, so I’m guessing its inevitable, look at the Frozen Fractal where you get stacks of frost? Who thinks that sometime in the future we might see something similar to that? Regardless what happens, you guys can’t have any form of RNG related to progression, this is one of the reasons why people quit is when you run into brick walls that can’t be bypassed, at least not without you being lucky.

You CANNOT make "demand"threads, by doing so you immediately negate any hope you have of being able to host a discussion of an issue, yes the rules can be at times irritating but SOME of them do warrant their existence.

Immediately framing the discussion badly is never a good idea either, as it becomes more of a complaint thread, and not about discussing anything, also the only response you can garner will be strong opposition instead of any sort of middle ground, if responding members feel they’re immediately on the back foot.

Ask more questions, make less claims.

I started reading the original post and about a paragraph in I couldn’t see anything except the OP living in this run down apartment covered with blurry black-and-white pictures of politicians, the pope, and Barney the Dinosaur, linked together with thumbtacks and red string. Everywhere there are post-its with cryptic notes like “RNG > Progression”, “WoW = illusion??” and “How Many Vials Have You Found!”. There are a million air fresheners hanging from the ceiling on strings and the power company disconnected the electricity like a year ago.

Actually we can make demand threads, whether or not people choose to listen to them, is another thing entirely. Posts of this nature are usually when clearly something is wrong in game and something needs to be done about it. I can post many many links to various games from Eve’s famous protests through to protests in SWG, I personally think we might start to see protests soon, the community is seriously fractured enough. A good company and developer listens to all the criticisms constructively and works out a plan that is in the best interests of the people feeding them, the players. @Hellkaiser I guess you never frequented the Diablo III forums then…probably a good thing, those forums at its worst was probably twice as bad as the GW2 forums, with demands, threats and QQs.

There have been a million posts about the displeasure about the ascended arguments, and we have seen very little action or really anything reliable from Anet, look at all the posts, how long do you think it’ll take before the game truly sinks down to the depths of gaming hell?

I for one, want GW2 back to the game that was promised and developed. This can still be achieved even with the vertical progression provided they stop with RNG elements.

GregT.4702:

I started reading the original post and about a paragraph in I couldn’t see anything except the OP living in this run down apartment covered with blurry black-and-white pictures of politicians, the pope, and Barney the Dinosaur, linked together with thumbtacks and red string. Everywhere there are post-its with cryptic notes like “RNG > Progression”, “WoW = illusion??” and “How Many Vials Have You Found!”. There are a million air fresheners hanging from the ceiling on strings and the power company disconnected the electricity like a year ago.

Totally uncalled for, and a clear appeal to ridicule in terms of fallacy.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Actually we can make demand threads, whether or not people choose to listen to them, is another thing entirely. Posts of this nature are usually when clearly something is wrong in game and something needs to be done about it. I can post many many links to various games from Eve’s famous protests through to protests in SWG, I personally think we might start to see protests soon, the community is seriously fractured enough. A good company and developer listens to all the criticisms constructively and works out a plan that is in the best interests of the people feeding them, the players. @Hellkaiser I guess you never frequented the Diablo III forums then…probably a good thing, those forums at its worst was probably twice as bad as the GW2 forums, with demands, threats and QQs.

There have been a million posts about the displeasure about the ascended arguments, and we have seen very little action or really anything reliable from Anet, look at all the posts, how long do you think it’ll take before the game truly sinks down to the depths of gaming hell?

I for one, want GW2 back to the game that was promised and developed. This can still be achieved even with the vertical progression provided they stop with RNG elements.

First of all, to reiterate. No you cannot if you want to follow the rules of the forum, no you do not have to play by their rules I’m simply stating that you’re going against faceless moderation and a strict “code of conduct” on this forum, if you cannot recognize what that implies, then perhaps you should think about it.
You also assume FAR too much, I regularly frequented and followed the happenings on the Diablo 3 forums, it was a shining example of the players proving that no matter the cost to their accounts, they would not “go silently into the night” from the “dear money” post which was spammed in a viral sense in mockery of the obvious spin doctor approach Morhaime used in his post. To the fallout on facebook wherein Jay wilson joined Robert A Kotick as one of the games industries biggest PR disasters.

This forum however, will more than likely not be allowed to become the staging ground of an anti-dev movement, and from what I can see it doesn’t exactly have the nostalgia, and loyal playerbase behind it as a franchise to generate enough bile to make it one, it will simply just fade away if it doesn’t succeed IMHO, as sad as that sounds

Hellkaiser.6025:

GregT.4702:

I started reading the original post and about a paragraph in I couldn’t see anything except the OP living in this run down apartment covered with blurry black-and-white pictures of politicians, the pope, and Barney the Dinosaur, linked together with thumbtacks and red string. Everywhere there are post-its with cryptic notes like “RNG > Progression”, “WoW = illusion??” and “How Many Vials Have You Found!”. There are a million air fresheners hanging from the ceiling on strings and the power company disconnected the electricity like a year ago.

Totally uncalled for, and a clear appeal to ridicule in terms of fallacy.

Oh, man, the OP didn’t need my help to look ridiculous. It’s right there in the thread title. But I’m making the point that if you have a serious argument to present it’s probably best to present it in a serious fashion, not just scribble exclamation marks on the back of a napkin and then mail it to the Prime Minister in an envelope with some of your toenail clippings.

lol! Actually those was good times really – It really was a PR disaster for Blizzard in general. Whilst, I’m not starting an anti-dev moment (yet), you have to realize, and by being a witness to what happened to D3, the similarities to mistakes made, not only in game but with company PR. Sure you can stay the AMA was a great success and all but temporarily stopped the outcry, but how long will the masses be contained before players start to complain again?

My original post is clear, and concise (assuming you can read past some of my rants), If you have a game that is heavily reliant on a random aspect for progression, it will not end well for that game.

@Greg Obvious troll is obvious

Greg isn’t trolling, he’s just being a loyal fan, you cannot hate him for it, only question his motives and their rationale, and he has a point about your ranting. The strength of an argument is based on it’s ability to both be the best form of the argument and to not read as he so nicely put it “a rant on the back of a napkin addressed to the president”

For what it’s worth, I totally agree with the point that RNG is lazy design and something that should be phased out of gaming in general as much as possible when it comes to progression, I just don’t think that you did the argument justice, despite possibly being able to.

And please don’t take offense to that, it’s not intended to be a dig.

For me it’s simply:

Where some see ranting, I see passion and thinking outside the box
Where some see “fanboyism” I see belief and loyalty

Both of those are in firm opposition here, the real issue comes when column A and B can’t understand that the end goal is the same, the improvement of the game for ALL
When things become silly such as “I don’t want x easier to get because I got x and it would belittle my work” diguised as other arguments (yes we know that’s the reason behind it, stop making it out to be others) then we get to a clear problem that needs to be sorted. Fighting does not help resolve that issue however.

The ascended gear is not as big an issue as it’s made out to be for a start, but it’s certainly not the only option they had to alleviating the issues with legendary items being miles away from those that didn’t get in early before the walls went up to make things harder for them to obtain. But it’s not the worst solution they could have come up with, not much else to say on that

RNG however is a BIGGER issue, than just this game

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

@Greg Obvious troll is obvious

Obvious troll is saying that there are some clear signs that someone is having a (and I use exaggeration here for humorous rather than offensive purposes) crazy hobo rant instead of putting forward a well considered point.

• “This demands attention”
• “very much intended warning to Anet/Nexon/NCSoft”
• “cannot, repeat cannot”
• wide generalisation of opinion/experience of “all the players”
• suggestion of conspiracy leading to some future unwanted outcome

I’d ding you on the complete lack of appropriate punctuation too – I think they teach you how to leave all your apostrophes off in Crazy Hobo 101 – but that’s probably unnecessarily mean if English isn’t your first language, so let’s let that slide.

Next time maybe try to title your thread “Suggested fix for RNG progression problem” or “An alternate system for Ascended acquisition” or something a little more positive generally.

To be blunt, and direct. If you want to progress beyond a certain point in Fractals, you need agony resistance.

For that, you need to get lucky with the level 10+ Bonus Chest so you can get a ring so you can use infusions. The ring part is RNG based, but at least seems to have somewhat of a reasonable drop rate, I can’t say how reasonable because I don’t personally have a data set to work with.

However, the major part of the problem lies with Vial of Condensed Mists which are very much RNG based, and they needed. There are many posts and complaints at the poor drop rate, the reason for the post and demand is that, they are also needed for Progression – so, legitimately speaking if your unlucky enough – this will gate you into a certain fractal level until you do get lucky.

@Greg Internet is internet, having a purely 100% punctuation and grammar requirement isn’t required to post. Also, calling names etc..being condescending and generally having a bad attitude is what trolls usually do. Here, I’ll throw you a bone to chew on.

wide generalisation of opinion/experience of “all the players”
Sure, it might not be all the players – but sure as hell a huge percentage do feel the same way, and that isn’t a good thing is it? The feeling of betrayal, the lack of action and the worst, very little communication from the developers doesn’t inspire player confidence. So you tell me whats worse, a ‘Crazy Hobo player’ or a game that has a significantly fractured community which are rapidly losing faith and confidence?

suggestion of conspiracy leading to some future unwanted outcome
How can it be a conspiracy is many other people are posting about similar problems? And have continued to post valid concerns and comments since before Lost Shores even was released?

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

To be blunt, and direct. If you want to progress beyond a certain point in Fractals, you need agony resistance.

For that, you need to get lucky with the level 10+ Bonus Chest so you can get a ring so you can use infusions. The ring part is RNG based, but at least seems to have somewhat of a reasonable drop rate, I can’t say how reasonable because I don’t personally have a data set to work with.

However, the major part of the problem lies with Vial of Condensed Mists which are very much RNG based, and they needed. There are many posts and complaints at the poor drop rate, the reason for the post and demand is that, they are also needed for Progression – so, legitimately speaking if your unlucky enough – this will gate you into a certain fractal level until you do get lucky.

Then that’s your viewpoint on the issue, but blowing things into a huge “revolution” only gives the opposing viewpoints ammunition to shoot you down from a mile across the proverbial battlefield before you can even set up camp. You’ve literally lost the race before the starting pistol has gone off, because you didn’t set it up as a discussion, just a rant. Emotion overtakes logic, and rationality goes out the bloody window. You simply diminish your own argument, for the sake of dramatic effect and sensationalism.

0/10
To make demands is funny.
You should give constructive criticism that is what you should do.

moiraine.2753:

0/10
To make demands is funny.

I guess, all the people in Eve who revolted are all idiots then? Don’t dismiss the power to the players, when something happens and enough players get behind an ideal for change.

Obviously, things are not quite that bad yet but seriously – just look what has happened in the past 2 months, and doesn’t that make you think twice? I could link to alot of past famous player revolts, but just one will do since it has a quote which should say everything. “MMORPG’s ARE ABOUT the players, and the operators of Star Wars: Galaxies have been reminded of this fact today in a rather sharp and painful manner.”

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1008767/star-wars-galaxies-player-revolt-success

Sure, I can/could reword the page better. Like Hellkaiser mentioned, Emotion sometimes overtakes logic. Because of that, the title was reworded.

The crazy thing is, that for the most part RNG is a requirement for MMos. The problem is with the implementation of it for various components of the game, such as crafting legendary/ascended items. If these items, was purely cosmetic like pre-vertical progression GW2, sure…it would still annoy some people but it wouldn’t be a big issue.

However, we’re playing now with obviously a vertical power-creeping version of GW2, and thus, RNG has to be remain out of that equation. Every player needs to be able to achieve the same gear/items no matter the style/type of player, whether it is a loyal hardcore fanboy or the most casual of players.