Guild Wars 2

(Had to repost because my old posting was removed here, because I speculated about the state of mind of the person responsible for ascended gear, which a moderator didn’t approve of.)

What in the world could make someone add gear that is 11%+ better than exotics, giving you a permanent feel of “this sucks, I cannot fairly compete, because I can’t invest insane amounts of time into this new vertical gear grind —that Arenanet originally promised they’d never add— so I will always have inferior items from now on”?
I’m speechless about this in my opinion bad game design. But anyway, I stopped playing way back when the whole Ascended nonsense was released and I only just got back cause a friend asked me to help him out. You won’t ever see a dime from me until you restore your promise and actual product features you announced when GW2 came out, the reason why I bought it and invested countless hours in it: No gear progression/grind. I invested a lot of time into the game based on that statement of you about what your product would definitely 100% be like, so how about paying me back for that false statement actually?

The increase over exotics should be 3% to 5%, with 5% being the obvious absolute maximum.
As people stated in the usual youtube videos containing criticism on ascended items, it should of course really be 0% -> it is gear you can grind for if you like that fractal dungeon grind -- leave everyone else alone with that kitten instead of forcing them to do things they don’t want to do and play the way they don’t want to play.

I don’t know, if they didnt add this people would be complaining about that, It’s never a win win for anet no matter what they do. I for one am happy with the state of the game. Only thing I was disappointed about was the birthday mini. I felt that was a staple in GW1 and was really looking forward to it.

I dont see the problem, the increase is not much at all and it really doesnt make a noticeable difference.
Exotic gear is way too easy to get anyway, need something to work towards sometimes.
Some people have more than 2 hours a week to enjoy this game and feel like a new tier can only do good for them.

I really, really hope Ascended Weapons (and eventually armor) don’t have as big of a stat jump as Ascended Trinkets.

Aphix.9846:

I dont see the problem, the increase is not much at all and it really doesnt make a noticeable difference.
Exotic gear is way too easy to get anyway, need something to work towards sometimes.
Some people have more than 2 hours a week to enjoy this game and feel like a new tier can only do good for them.

over 1000 hours/8 months.

You were sayin?

Ascended=bad.

2nd. L2P since you dont have a clue how the stats in GW2 function.

LFM Need 2 more, only people with ascended gear!

@MikaHR Unless you are doing high level fractals or PvP there is no L2P in this game. For the rest of the game you don’t need to know how the stats work, because it doesn’t really matter.

Weapon Strength has a major effect on damage alone. Trinkets weren’t half as bad since they only carried stats.

The difference between just changing a rare dagger to an exotic dagger: negligible stat difference but 15-20% damage output difference.

More info here (my informative posts never get commented on and thus ignored):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stat-effects-of-Weapons-vs-Trinkets/first#post2732230

zencow.3651:

Weapon Strength has a major effect on damage alone. Trinkets weren’t half as bad since they only carried stats.

The difference between just changing a rare dagger to an exotic dagger: negligible stat difference but 15-20% damage output difference.

More info here (my informative posts never get commented on and thus ignored):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stat-effects-of-Weapons-vs-Trinkets/first#post2732230

They haven’t posted Ascended weapons yet so it’s unconfirmed whether that is the case. It’s also one item slot and the problem would be with Ascended weapons specifically, not with the rest of the gear. 11% stat increase is a lot less than you think it is.

Yaki.9563:

They haven’t posted Ascended weapons yet so it’s unconfirmed whether that is the case. It’s also one item slot and the problem would be with Ascended weapons specifically, not with the rest of the gear. 11% stat increase is a lot less than you think it is.

Please see take the time to read my full post for more info:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/ANet-loves-difficulty-spikes/first#post2592962

Yaki.9563:

zencow.3651:

Weapon Strength has a major effect on damage alone. Trinkets weren’t half as bad since they only carried stats.

The difference between just changing a rare dagger to an exotic dagger: negligible stat difference but 15-20% damage output difference.

More info here (my informative posts never get commented on and thus ignored):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stat-effects-of-Weapons-vs-Trinkets/first#post2732230

They haven’t posted Ascended weapons yet so it’s unconfirmed whether that is the case. It’s also one item slot and the problem would be with Ascended weapons specifically, not with the rest of the gear. 11% stat increase is a lot less than you think it is.

Because they are multiplicative, a 11% power increase and an 11% weapon strength increase results in at least a 23% damage increase.

If you also increase precision by 11% you get a 32% damage increase.

For example:
Weapon Damage 1000
Power 2146
Precision 1876
Crit Change .405
Crit Damage 90%
Against 1900 armor
Give 1770.5 expected damage.

Weapon Power of 1110
Power 2382
Precision 2082
Crit Change 48.5%
Crit Damage 90%
against armor 1900
Gives an expected damage of 2336

which is 30% more.

Now I don’t think those will be the numbers, but the effect can be bigger than you think.

Aphix.9846:

I dont see the problem, the increase is not much at all and it really doesnt make a noticeable difference.
Exotic gear is way too easy to get anyway, need something to work towards sometimes.
Some people have more than 2 hours a week to enjoy this game and feel like a new tier can only do good for them.

Can’t you work at say MC Donalds and just enjoy when you play games, though?

TooBz.3065:

Yaki.9563:

zencow.3651:

Weapon Strength has a major effect on damage alone. Trinkets weren’t half as bad since they only carried stats.

The difference between just changing a rare dagger to an exotic dagger: negligible stat difference but 15-20% damage output difference.

More info here (my informative posts never get commented on and thus ignored):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stat-effects-of-Weapons-vs-Trinkets/first#post2732230

They haven’t posted Ascended weapons yet so it’s unconfirmed whether that is the case. It’s also one item slot and the problem would be with Ascended weapons specifically, not with the rest of the gear. 11% stat increase is a lot less than you think it is.

Because they are multiplicative, a 11% power increase and an 11% weapon strength increase results in at least a 23% damage increase.

If you also increase precision by 11% you get a 32% damage increase.

For example:
Weapon Damage 1000
Power 2146
Precision 1876
Crit Change .405
Crit Damage 90%
Against 1900 armor
Give 1770.5 expected damage.

Weapon Power of 1110
Power 2382
Precision 2082
Crit Change 48.5%
Crit Damage 90%
against armor 1900
Gives an expected damage of 2336

which is 30% more.

Now I don’t think those will be the numbers, but the effect can be bigger than you think.

I was only aiming to demonstrate the effects of Weapon Strength difference to show how big of a deal Ascended Weapon is compared to the effects of Ascended Trinkets to the naysayers.

Your ‘new stats’ is also incorrect, I think you are wrongly multiplying the base stats AND the weapon up by 11%, remember base stats at lvl 80 is 916 so your ‘ascended’ power should be 2281 if you are using that example etc.

Astralporing.1957:

For the rest of the game perhaps not, but on the forum knowing how stats work might prevent people from posting about how those increases “do not matter”. Because they do – see the post above.

Well, the reason I bring it up is because I think a lot of people don’t really do fractals or pvp.

I think that 11% will make a difference and that’s why I commented LFG, only ascended gear, because even though you don’t need it for normal dungeon runs, people will require it so the runs are faster and they will be.

This game is more about gold/hour than anything else and this stat increase if it is indeed 11% is going to support that.

It’d be interesting also to see if this will make a difference in WvW. Time will tell but I can imagine a group of 20-30 people in full exotics might make short work of most of the competition if they don’t have that gear.

zencow.3651:

TooBz.3065:

Yaki.9563:

zencow.3651:

Weapon Strength has a major effect on damage alone. Trinkets weren’t half as bad since they only carried stats.

The difference between just changing a rare dagger to an exotic dagger: negligible stat difference but 15-20% damage output difference.

More info here (my informative posts never get commented on and thus ignored):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stat-effects-of-Weapons-vs-Trinkets/first#post2732230

They haven’t posted Ascended weapons yet so it’s unconfirmed whether that is the case. It’s also one item slot and the problem would be with Ascended weapons specifically, not with the rest of the gear. 11% stat increase is a lot less than you think it is.

Because they are multiplicative, a 11% power increase and an 11% weapon strength increase results in at least a 23% damage increase.

If you also increase precision by 11% you get a 32% damage increase.

For example:
Weapon Damage 1000
Power 2146
Precision 1876
Crit Change .405
Crit Damage 90%
Against 1900 armor
Give 1770.5 expected damage.

Weapon Power of 1110
Power 2382
Precision 2082
Crit Change 48.5%
Crit Damage 90%
against armor 1900
Gives an expected damage of 2336

which is 30% more.

Now I don’t think those will be the numbers, but the effect can be bigger than you think.

I was only aiming to demonstrate the effects of Weapon Strength difference to show how big of a deal Ascended Weapon is compared to the effects of Ascended Trinkets to the naysayers.

Your ‘new stats’ is also incorrect, I think you are wrongly multiplying the base stats AND the weapon up by 11%, remember base stats at lvl 80 is 916 so your ‘ascended’ power should be 2281 if you are using that example etc.

Right. My bad. In my example it’s only a 25% increase. The main problem is that any change to weapon damage is multiplicative to all other stats. So a 10% increase to weapon damage is a 10% increase to damage across the board.

Posted this in zeecow’s thread, but reposting it here as well. The difference in ascended weapons from exotics should be 5%.

(This is a screenshot I saved from when legendary weapons were accidentally upgraded some time ago.)

Well, we don’t quite know how hard it will be to get Ascended weapons and the grind for Rings is pretty easy. The Backpiece and Earrings are really annoying though.

The things are almost certainly going to be bind on equip; if you can’t (or won’t) level up one of the prerequisite crafting skills to make the things, just farm cash and buy one. Or buy the components and commission one from a friend.

It might (will) take you longer, but whatever; it’s not like there is going to be content that you can’t do without the things. And really, 5-10% extra damage isn’t all that much. sPVP is capped on stats and WvW is pretty much already built to be unfair on a solo level, so… what? You think people will kick you from groups for not having one? If they do, those aren’t groups that are worth the time to begin with.

Man, i wish stats were way more simple since its obvious that there are so many people who dont get difference between square and linear function and are clueless how stat work in GW2, but at the same time feel like they should comment on it.

MikaHR.1978:

Man, i wish stats were way more simple since its obvious that there are so many people who dont get difference between square and linear function and are clueless how stat work in GW2, but at the same time feel like they should comment on it.

To be honest, I know the math of squared and linear function. However, I have no idea which stats is linear or squared. They don’t tell me anything on the stats page. Except higher is better, but nothing else

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Man, i wish stats were way more simple since its obvious that there are so many people who dont get difference between square and linear function and are clueless how stat work in GW2, but at the same time feel like they should comment on it.

To be honest, I know the math of squared and linear function. However, I have no idea which stats is linear or squared. They don’t tell me anything on the stats page. Except higher is better, but nothing else

Took whole of 5s to find:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

And i guess “critical chance” and “critical damage” are self explanatory.

MikaHR.1978:

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Man, i wish stats were way more simple since its obvious that there are so many people who dont get difference between square and linear function and are clueless how stat work in GW2, but at the same time feel like they should comment on it.

To be honest, I know the math of squared and linear function. However, I have no idea which stats is linear or squared. They don’t tell me anything on the stats page. Except higher is better, but nothing else

Took whole of 5s to find:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

And i guess “critical chance” and “critical damage” are self explanatory.

Which should be part of the stats page explanation instead of on a 3rd party website. You think I dont know that wiki page exists?

Raine.1394:

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Its fascinating whom ANet caters to.

I’m guessing they cater to MMO players. Sorry GW1 players, no gearing up in the first 3 months of the game then doing pointless fluff content for the next 10 years.

As I see we still have people who don’t understand vertical progression, I’ll play.

Everything you need to know about VP can be found in the words that make up the concept: Vertical, the power level of the game increases; Progression, it continually increases over time.

And, VP can be described by an integer series: 1,2,3,4,5,…n where each number represents a new tier of ever more powerful gear. Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional. It makes no difference whether the difference between 1 & 2 is material. Vertical progression does not progress by stopping. It is self evident that eventually you will not be able to play the game if you are not grinding it out on the treadmill.

Ever wonder why they call it a gear treadmill? Here’s why: everyones at power X and new gear with more power drops, let’s call it power level Y. Everyone jumps on the treadmill. When they get off everyone’s at power level Y. Meanwhile, the environment has attained power level Y as well. Before and after the treadmill ride there is no relative difference between player and player (if they rode the treadmill and they really had no choice) or player and environment. In reality they have gone nowhere; they’ve just been exercised on a non-optional treadmill.

That’s all well and good for hamsters, but players in 2013 are realizing more and more that the emperor of treadmills has no clothes. We want more from our gaming than a mandatory treadmill ride. Vertical progression is an old answer to the question of making an engaging MMO. We’re ready for a new kind of MMO.

well said, good for the hamsters to read. However, I like to call them donkey or sheeps.

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Man, i wish stats were way more simple since its obvious that there are so many people who dont get difference between square and linear function and are clueless how stat work in GW2, but at the same time feel like they should comment on it.

To be honest, I know the math of squared and linear function. However, I have no idea which stats is linear or squared. They don’t tell me anything on the stats page. Except higher is better, but nothing else

Took whole of 5s to find:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

And i guess “critical chance” and “critical damage” are self explanatory.

Which should be part of the stats page explanation instead of on a 3rd party website. You think I dont know that wiki page exists?

Its not a “3rd party website”

Its official GW2 wiki and, gosh, you have a link for it on top of this very page.

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Man, i wish stats were way more simple since its obvious that there are so many people who dont get difference between square and linear function and are clueless how stat work in GW2, but at the same time feel like they should comment on it.

To be honest, I know the math of squared and linear function. However, I have no idea which stats is linear or squared. They don’t tell me anything on the stats page. Except higher is better, but nothing else

Took whole of 5s to find:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

And i guess “critical chance” and “critical damage” are self explanatory.

Which should be part of the stats page explanation instead of on a 3rd party website. You think I dont know that wiki page exists?

You are aware that wiki is as official as it gets? You can even reach that page typing “/wiki Damage” in the ingame chat.

Frankly if you were one of those that said “ascended trickets will not lead to gear treadmill! Stop saying the sky is falling”

you allowed this to happen. Anet has not gotten money from me since the introduction of of ascended and i took a few months break. Now its just a matter of time before GW2 falls flat.

They are desperate to keep people on the treadmill now. The Living Story, AKA Grinding Story, shows it perfectly. There focus is not on making people WANT to be in the game.. its in making people be FORCED to be in the game.

GW1 lasted 7 years. Only GW2 could stop it from being popular. GW2 wont last 3 years. Expect the first server merge within the next 8 months. and that is already 6 months to late for it.

Raine.1394:

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Its fascinating whom ANet caters to.

I’m guessing they cater to MMO players. Sorry GW1 players, no gearing up in the first 3 months of the game then doing pointless fluff content for the next 10 years.

As I see we still have people who don’t understand vertical progression, I’ll play.

Everything you need to know about VP can be found in the words that make up the concept: Vertical, the power level of the game increases; Progression, it continually increases over time.

And, VP can be described by an integer series: 1,2,3,4,5,…n where each number represents a new tier of ever more powerful gear. Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional. It makes no difference whether the difference between 1 & 2 is material. Vertical progression does not progress by stopping. It is self evident that eventually you will not be able to play the game if you are not grinding it out on the treadmill.

Ever wonder why they call it a gear treadmill? Here’s why: everyones at power X and new gear with more power drops, let’s call it power level Y. Everyone jumps on the treadmill. When they get off everyone’s at power level Y. Meanwhile, the environment has attained power level Y as well. Before and after the treadmill ride there is no relative difference between player and player (if they rode the treadmill and they really had no choice) or player and environment. In reality they have gone nowhere; they’ve just been exercised on a non-optional treadmill.

That’s all well and good for hamsters, but players in 2013 are realizing more and more that the emperor of treadmills has no clothes. We want more from our gaming than a mandatory treadmill ride. Vertical progression is an old answer to the question of making an engaging MMO. We’re ready for a new kind of MMO.

Question is what happens when this self proclaimed “MMO players” get their ascended set.

ANet caved in not even 3 months after release. How long will it take to cave in after ascended. My prediction: they already plan for next tier.

The only way to avoid it will be legendary tier. And we know fastest way to legendary.

MikaHR.1978:

Raine.1394:

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Its fascinating whom ANet caters to.

I’m guessing they cater to MMO players. Sorry GW1 players, no gearing up in the first 3 months of the game then doing pointless fluff content for the next 10 years.

As I see we still have people who don’t understand vertical progression, I’ll play.

Everything you need to know about VP can be found in the words that make up the concept: Vertical, the power level of the game increases; Progression, it continually increases over time.

And, VP can be described by an integer series: 1,2,3,4,5,…n where each number represents a new tier of ever more powerful gear. Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional. It makes no difference whether the difference between 1 & 2 is material. Vertical progression does not progress by stopping. It is self evident that eventually you will not be able to play the game if you are not grinding it out on the treadmill.

Ever wonder why they call it a gear treadmill? Here’s why: everyones at power X and new gear with more power drops, let’s call it power level Y. Everyone jumps on the treadmill. When they get off everyone’s at power level Y. Meanwhile, the environment has attained power level Y as well. Before and after the treadmill ride there is no relative difference between player and player (if they rode the treadmill and they really had no choice) or player and environment. In reality they have gone nowhere; they’ve just been exercised on a non-optional treadmill.

That’s all well and good for hamsters, but players in 2013 are realizing more and more that the emperor of treadmills has no clothes. We want more from our gaming than a mandatory treadmill ride. Vertical progression is an old answer to the question of making an engaging MMO. We’re ready for a new kind of MMO.

Question is what happens when this self proclaimed “MMO players” get their ascended set.

ANet caved in not even 3 months after release. How long will it take to cave in after ascended. My prediction: they already plan for next tier.

The only way to avoid it will be legendary tier. And we know fastest way to legendary.

While if they do that, I am done with this game. Very simple.

Raine.1394:

Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional.

Per your own hyperbole, ArenaNet is clearly holding you down, forcing you to progress. How dare they.

Seriously, you are more afraid of the potential that they will add more tiers than you are of ascended items as a concept. Frankly, these fears are unfounded. They have stated (post release, when this debate first started) that they have no intention of adding a new item tier in the foreseeable future.

Worst case scenario, we get sideways progression which is equal, but different than ascended (a la greens in GW1), Doomsday scenario we get Transuniversal Mistzone items, and you guys can be justified in your, currently, unwarranted fears.

The difference, while tangible, isn’t so large that player skill or class mechanics will not be able to overcome the relative value of an item upgrade. The only content currently bottlenecked by gear progression is Fractals, and ya know what? You can do the first 10 levels with zero concern with ascended items/AR. In fact, you can do the 1-19 with zero agony resistance and still be successful.

There is, and will not be, any content you will be unable to see/participate in because of Ascended gear.

MikaHR.1978:

Raine.1394:

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Its fascinating whom ANet caters to.

I’m guessing they cater to MMO players. Sorry GW1 players, no gearing up in the first 3 months of the game then doing pointless fluff content for the next 10 years.

As I see we still have people who don’t understand vertical progression, I’ll play.

Everything you need to know about VP can be found in the words that make up the concept: Vertical, the power level of the game increases; Progression, it continually increases over time.

And, VP can be described by an integer series: 1,2,3,4,5,…n where each number represents a new tier of ever more powerful gear. Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional. It makes no difference whether the difference between 1 & 2 is material. Vertical progression does not progress by stopping. It is self evident that eventually you will not be able to play the game if you are not grinding it out on the treadmill.

Ever wonder why they call it a gear treadmill? Here’s why: everyones at power X and new gear with more power drops, let’s call it power level Y. Everyone jumps on the treadmill. When they get off everyone’s at power level Y. Meanwhile, the environment has attained power level Y as well. Before and after the treadmill ride there is no relative difference between player and player (if they rode the treadmill and they really had no choice) or player and environment. In reality they have gone nowhere; they’ve just been exercised on a non-optional treadmill.

That’s all well and good for hamsters, but players in 2013 are realizing more and more that the emperor of treadmills has no clothes. We want more from our gaming than a mandatory treadmill ride. Vertical progression is an old answer to the question of making an engaging MMO. We’re ready for a new kind of MMO.

Question is what happens when this self procliamed “MMO players” get their ascended set.

ANet caved in not even 3 months after release. How long will it take to cave in after ascended. My prediction: they already plan for next tier.

In the AMA after the introduction of ascended gear, Anet said that they were introducing, not so much ascended gear, but rather vertical progression. They don’t need to cave any further in order to further increase the power level of the game. As I said above, vertical progression does not progress by stopping. Only a reversal of the policy of VP will prevent further increases.

It’s interesting to read Colin’s blog post on the future in 2013. In it he says they don’t want us grinding out gear and will give us ability progression (an aspect of horizontal progression-yay!) instead. But they nowhere disavowed VP and are going ahead with ascended gear. This kind of disjunction between what is said and what is practiced, makes it impossible to interpret where they are on any given issue. At any rate they will need to stop VP formally if they intend to stop VP.

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Raine.1394:

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Its fascinating whom ANet caters to.

I’m guessing they cater to MMO players. Sorry GW1 players, no gearing up in the first 3 months of the game then doing pointless fluff content for the next 10 years.

As I see we still have people who don’t understand vertical progression, I’ll play.

Everything you need to know about VP can be found in the words that make up the concept: Vertical, the power level of the game increases; Progression, it continually increases over time.

And, VP can be described by an integer series: 1,2,3,4,5,…n where each number represents a new tier of ever more powerful gear. Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional. It makes no difference whether the difference between 1 & 2 is material. Vertical progression does not progress by stopping. It is self evident that eventually you will not be able to play the game if you are not grinding it out on the treadmill.

Ever wonder why they call it a gear treadmill? Here’s why: everyones at power X and new gear with more power drops, let’s call it power level Y. Everyone jumps on the treadmill. When they get off everyone’s at power level Y. Meanwhile, the environment has attained power level Y as well. Before and after the treadmill ride there is no relative difference between player and player (if they rode the treadmill and they really had no choice) or player and environment. In reality they have gone nowhere; they’ve just been exercised on a non-optional treadmill.

That’s all well and good for hamsters, but players in 2013 are realizing more and more that the emperor of treadmills has no clothes. We want more from our gaming than a mandatory treadmill ride. Vertical progression is an old answer to the question of making an engaging MMO. We’re ready for a new kind of MMO.

Question is what happens when this self proclaimed “MMO players” get their ascended set.

ANet caved in not even 3 months after release. How long will it take to cave in after ascended. My prediction: they already plan for next tier.

The only way to avoid it will be legendary tier. And we know fastest way to legendary.

While if they do that, I am done with this game. Very simple.

How do you suppose they will keep those who want vertical progession happy after ascended. And they said themselves ascended armor will be here before end of the year.

The only thing they did say is that we will not see new tier this year.

MikaHR.1978:

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Raine.1394:

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Its fascinating whom ANet caters to.

I’m guessing they cater to MMO players. Sorry GW1 players, no gearing up in the first 3 months of the game then doing pointless fluff content for the next 10 years.

As I see we still have people who don’t understand vertical progression, I’ll play.

Everything you need to know about VP can be found in the words that make up the concept: Vertical, the power level of the game increases; Progression, it continually increases over time.

And, VP can be described by an integer series: 1,2,3,4,5,…n where each number represents a new tier of ever more powerful gear. Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional. It makes no difference whether the difference between 1 & 2 is material. Vertical progression does not progress by stopping. It is self evident that eventually you will not be able to play the game if you are not grinding it out on the treadmill.

Ever wonder why they call it a gear treadmill? Here’s why: everyones at power X and new gear with more power drops, let’s call it power level Y. Everyone jumps on the treadmill. When they get off everyone’s at power level Y. Meanwhile, the environment has attained power level Y as well. Before and after the treadmill ride there is no relative difference between player and player (if they rode the treadmill and they really had no choice) or player and environment. In reality they have gone nowhere; they’ve just been exercised on a non-optional treadmill.

That’s all well and good for hamsters, but players in 2013 are realizing more and more that the emperor of treadmills has no clothes. We want more from our gaming than a mandatory treadmill ride. Vertical progression is an old answer to the question of making an engaging MMO. We’re ready for a new kind of MMO.

Question is what happens when this self proclaimed “MMO players” get their ascended set.

ANet caved in not even 3 months after release. How long will it take to cave in after ascended. My prediction: they already plan for next tier.

The only way to avoid it will be legendary tier. And we know fastest way to legendary.

While if they do that, I am done with this game. Very simple.

How do you suppose they will keep those who want vertical progession happy after ascended. And they said themselves ascended armor will be here before end of the year.

The only thing they did say is that we will not see new tier this year.

I am fine if they stayed at ascended, but I refuse to be baited like a donkey.

MikaHR.1978:

Raine.1394:

Yaki.9563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Its fascinating whom ANet caters to.

I’m guessing they cater to MMO players. Sorry GW1 players, no gearing up in the first 3 months of the game then doing pointless fluff content for the next 10 years.

As I see we still have people who don’t understand vertical progression, I’ll play.

Everything you need to know about VP can be found in the words that make up the concept: Vertical, the power level of the game increases; Progression, it continually increases over time.

And, VP can be described by an integer series: 1,2,3,4,5,…n where each number represents a new tier of ever more powerful gear. Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional. It makes no difference whether the difference between 1 & 2 is material. Vertical progression does not progress by stopping. It is self evident that eventually you will not be able to play the game if you are not grinding it out on the treadmill.

Ever wonder why they call it a gear treadmill? Here’s why: everyones at power X and new gear with more power drops, let’s call it power level Y. Everyone jumps on the treadmill. When they get off everyone’s at power level Y. Meanwhile, the environment has attained power level Y as well. Before and after the treadmill ride there is no relative difference between player and player (if they rode the treadmill and they really had no choice) or player and environment. In reality they have gone nowhere; they’ve just been exercised on a non-optional treadmill.

That’s all well and good for hamsters, but players in 2013 are realizing more and more that the emperor of treadmills has no clothes. We want more from our gaming than a mandatory treadmill ride. Vertical progression is an old answer to the question of making an engaging MMO. We’re ready for a new kind of MMO.

Question is what happens when this self proclaimed “MMO players” get their ascended set.

ANet caved in not even 3 months after release. How long will it take to cave in after ascended. My prediction: they already plan for next tier.

The only way to avoid it will be legendary tier. And we know fastest way to legendary.

We know what will happen. Same thing that happened when they got their Exotic set. They will cry for more gear. ANet only bought themselves a year.

Hopefully, for those who stick around, the introduction of new skills that you have to earn will stop the need for further gear.

MikaHR.1978:

How do you suppose they will keep those who want vertical progession happy after ascended. And they said themselves ascended armor will be here before end of the year.

The only thing they did say is that we will not see new tier this year.

I propose that they simply don’t. They didn’t used to cater to it, I don’t feel that they should start/do more so now. With this final tier of gear, we have more than plenty of steps in the gear ladder. I vote they give us skills and skins, and just let us play. As we did in the predecessor.

Anyone… ANYONE who things Ascended will be the end is burying their heads in the sand. They are delaying it yes… just getting weapons… another 4 months for armor. 6 months from their however will be the next one. It will happen.. and it started with Trinkets and people giving into that.

Kelnis.1829:

Raine.1394:

Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional.

snip
Seriously, you are more afraid of the potential that they will add more tiers than you are of ascended items as a concept. Frankly, these fears are unfounded. They have stated (post release, when this debate first started) that they have no intention of adding a new item tier in the foreseeable future.
snip

From the AMA from Chris Whiteside:

“we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.”
“That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve
However we have no intention of adding a new Rarity of Gear such as Ascended. Instead and as we evolve the game existing Rarity’s will evolve over time
Through infusions and existing Tiers there will be the opportunity to increase stats or abilities on a low power curve through multiple types of gameplay in GW2.
The opportunity to enhance existing tiers of loot will not be through a regular cadence of monthly updates instead it is more likely to come from expansions or very big drops of content.”

See my description of VP above. It doesn’t progress by stopping. If it did it wouldn’t be vertical progression and that is what they introduced, by their own words, last November.

Raine.1394:

Kelnis.1829:

Raine.1394:

Upon inspection we can see that the participation in the process is mandatory, not optional.

snip
Seriously, you are more afraid of the potential that they will add more tiers than you are of ascended items as a concept. Frankly, these fears are unfounded. They have stated (post release, when this debate first started) that they have no intention of adding a new item tier in the foreseeable future.
snip

From the AMA from Chris Whiteside:

“we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.”
“That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve
However we have no intention of adding a new Rarity of Gear such as Ascended. Instead and as we evolve the game existing Rarity’s will evolve over time
Through infusions and existing Tiers there will be the opportunity to increase stats or abilities on a low power curve through multiple types of gameplay in GW2.
The opportunity to enhance existing tiers of loot will not be through a regular cadence of monthly updates instead it is more likely to come from expansions or very big drops of content.”

See my description of VP above. It doesn’t progress by stopping. If it did it wouldn’t be vertical progression and that is what they introduced, by their own words, last November.

I should have been clearer, its irrelevant if its new tier of gear or new tier of sigils/runes or new tier of infusions or <insert object with bigger stats>

What is relevant is that you will be be forced to constantly chase more and more stats.

AND it will inevitably lead to content where those stats are required (1st one is already here: www)

Oh, and someone already datamined new +11 infusions. And how will you recover those +5 infusions to pass on on your fall behind character: lo and behold new cash shop salvage tool that recovers upgrades without destroying the item.

Oh, but that AMA claims there won’t be anything after ascended, only improved infusions. Or am I just reading that in a wrong way?

Infusions do very little to change your performance so I’m fine with that if the extra stats trickle in by 1 point a year.

Some of the horizontal progression they’ve implemented recently are pretty game breaking though: see Runes of Perplexity complaints.

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Hell Avenger.7021:

MikaHR.1978:

Man, i wish stats were way more simple since its obvious that there are so many people who dont get difference between square and linear function and are clueless how stat work in GW2, but at the same time feel like they should comment on it.

To be honest, I know the math of squared and linear function. However, I have no idea which stats is linear or squared. They don’t tell me anything on the stats page. Except higher is better, but nothing else

Took whole of 5s to find:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

And i guess “critical chance” and “critical damage” are self explanatory.

Which should be part of the stats page explanation instead of on a 3rd party website. You think I dont know that wiki page exists?

It is not 3rd party website… Look at the top left of your screen xD

Stop the gear treadmill or make it possible to gain all ascended gear with only playing in WvW.

Excalibur.9748:

Stop the gear treadmill or make it possible to gain all ascended gear with only playing in WvW.

Or better, make ascended weapons only obtainable from WvW :P

WvWers had to put up with fractals the first time round so it’s only fair, right?

milo.6942:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

the devs explicitly said no gear progression. the prequel had none.

Gear increases in effectiveness not only based on level but based on rarity.

Normal —> Fine —> Masterwork —> Rare —> Exotic

That’s called progression. Don’t believe me? Consult the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rarity#Quality

Every single game with a level progression system and a rarity rank has gear progression.

There’s a difference between a token “gear progression” that’s essentially just white noise, like the whole 1-79 levelling process, and forcing people to do specific content 100s of times per character for the best gear.

If you want to play a half decent MMO without typical gear progression or grind try Eve online. While you do progress it’s simply by playing time and you “level” passively regardless of what you do, even while you’re offline. You can get specialised in a specific ship and weapons set in a few weeks typically, and then you’re good for years and years and years. Only real grind element is for ISK which can be a bore sometimes. Everything else is on a plate ready for you to go as long as you have the ISK and skills required.

Pvp is somewhat expensive, but if you join a large alliance you can have a very decent WvW experience in a huge sandbox that doesn’t reset every week.

Redscope.6215:

milo.6942:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

the devs explicitly said no gear progression. the prequel had none.

Gear increases in effectiveness not only based on level but based on rarity.

Normal —> Fine --> Masterwork —> Rare --> Exotic

That’s called progression. Don’t believe me? Consult the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rarity#Quality

Every single game with a level progression system and a rarity rank has gear progression.

Yes, and 1-80 is vertical progression, no doubt about it. The key to understanding this is to consider a game like GW1 where there was no vertical progression post max level gear at max level. This, combined with skill-based horizontal progression, is the alternative to vertical progression. Every game in or near the genre needs a mechanism for character progression. Vertical is an old idea with a lot of extra baggage. A lot of us understand issues like this in game design and we are ready for a new kind of MMO.

i cant play game for cosmetics only i need gear progresion the combat is shallow as it is i cant do dungeon for skins ill go play barby game if i like that :P

Gele.2048:

i cant play game for cosmetics only i need gear progresion the combat is shallow as it is i cant do dungeon for skins ill go play barby game if i like that :P

And, to your didcomfort, you will still be doing dungeons for skins since Ascended gear is time gated and account/soulbound crafted and only reason to do dungeons is gold/skins.

Sigh, why people cant think a bit about what they write….

Gele.2048:

i cant play game for cosmetics only i need gear progresion the combat is shallow as it is i cant do dungeon for skins ill go play barby game if i like that :P

so you want a carrot dangle infront of you

They made a comment about this a while ago… if only the search function worked. apparently they believe ascended still fits into their grand scheme of no gear treadmill because they had intended to eventually add ascended when they launched, but just didn’t tell anyone about it. I wonder how many other tiers they will add, saying that it was intended to have tier 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. from the start…

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Actually… yes. This was the idea that the majority of the playerbase had going into the game. Get your max stat set, and acquire new skins over time. Cosmetic grind, cosmetic treadmill. Not statistical. Its people like you that whined on the forums that there was no gear progression in the game.

Gele.2048:

i cant play game for cosmetics only i need gear progresion the combat is shallow as it is i cant do dungeon for skins ill go play barby game if i like that :P

First, use punctuation and spell check.

Second, did you do your research on the game? This was hardly supposed to be a gear grinding game.
If you didnt want to play for cosmetics only you should have stuck with WoW or whatever treadmill you were on. Instead, our game has been polluted.

I really thought this was the first real modern MMO that would provide me with a cosmetic gear treadmill. Cosmetic only. Skins. I guess I have to keep waiting.

Raine.1394:

skill-based horizontal progression, is the alternative to vertical progression. Every game in or near the genre needs a mechanism for character progression. Vertical is an old idea with a lot of extra baggage. A lot of us understand issues like this in game design and we are ready for a new kind of MMO.

I agree completely. Its a tired old mechanic for MMO’s. Almost all of them end up the same with a vertical progession gear treadmill.
GW2 seems to be on the tired old path and conforming to standards every MMO before it has done safely. People seem to love the carrot, so why innovate when the tired and true work so blandfully well. I’m not one to hold the biblical ‘manifesto’ over their heads like some people do, because things change. But for a company that wanted to shake up the world of MMO’s with innovation and changes to the accepted low standards, they seem to be shaping more and more into ‘just another run of the mill MMO’
Its not limited to GW2, this mechanic is going to stagnate the entire genre more than it already has.