Guild Wars 2

personally, i find it like this.

something else to work for in gw2.

im fine with it, and actually im a bit excited for it, also with the implementation of the stat distibution on ascended gear it looks like we are getting something unique, wow only had a “take x ammount of y specifically, to convert it into a finite number of x” this on the other hand is going “yo, you wanna switch up your build? you need different stats? ok no problem luie, just go to this guy here, and badaboom, you got your new stats kid.” i think that speaks for itself in tearms of gear progression and a gear treadmill, if there is a treadmill, its very VERY small, just because of the new way they are implementing the stats, no more need to have x ammount of gear sets now, unless of course you want to get different skins, then by all means thats up to you, personally, i find it hard to deck my characters out in multiple armor sets, just because i find myself fond of one style of looking for one character. just my two cents

disreguard this, lol watching the livestream atm

Mystic.5934:

They made a comment about this a while ago… if only the search function worked. apparently they believe ascended still fits into their grand scheme of no gear treadmill because they had intended to eventually add ascended when they launched, but just didn’t tell anyone about it. I wonder how many other tiers they will add, saying that it was intended to have tier 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. from the start…

ROFL … well said, and bravo

The bottom line is, that GW2 was marketed for years as a game that would not have a heavy gear grind, no must-have classes for dungeons (trinity) and no stat-based vertical progression. It matters NOT the degree in which these elements were explicitly stated or implied. Because through forum posts, feedback and pre-release write-ups – the game company fully understood that the overwhelming majority of people believed those things.

Of course pre-release there were a great many false assumptions made about the game; but quite often whenever a false assumption became widespread, Anet would release a statement that cleared things up. Among the many pre-release “assumptions” made, and repeated endlessly for months on end and in every possible venue imaginable, was that GW2 would have a power/gear plateau once you achieved lvl 80 and a full set of exotics.

As a result, thousands of MMO fans were buzzing loudly about finally finding a full 100% horizontal-progression game for every mode of gameplay: PvE, WvW and PvP. And this was clearly understood as being a fact by the vast majority of people. Interestingly, insofar as the 100% horizontal-progression assumption went, at NO time did Anet feel they needed to “clear things up” with a statement advising folks about another tier of gear and their intention to have vertical progression in GW2. Instead, the horizontal progression “myth”, despite being the single most pervasive myth/assumption about Gw2, that one did not need clearing up until AFTER the game was released and the initial burst of early sales had subsided. Funny that …

Ision.3207:

As a result, thousands of MMO fans were buzzing loudly about finally finding a full 100% horizontal-progression game for every mode of gameplay: PvE, WvW and PvP. And this was clearly understood as being a fact by the vast majority of people.

It’s a shame that the hunt/wait for an MMO that does this is back on.
Honestly, had I known that plateau was going to be thrown out in favor of new gear tiers, I probably would never have bought the game.

Gele.2048:

i cant play game for cosmetics only i need gear progresion the combat is shallow as it is i cant do dungeon for skins ill go play barby game if i like that :P

you’re right, the combat is very shallow, so i can understand where you’re coming from, but you should try a more conventional mmo if you want gear progression. i doubt the ascended tier will be enough for people like you, and god help us all if they release another.

milo.6942:

Gele.2048:

i cant play game for cosmetics only i need gear progresion the combat is shallow as it is i cant do dungeon for skins ill go play barby game if i like that :P

you’re right, the combat is very shallow, so i can understand where you’re coming from, but you should try a more conventional mmo if you want gear progression. i doubt the ascended tier will be enough for people like you, and god help us all if they release another.

Thats the problem with people that need the carrot. It is never ending. GW2 lost a majority of the players that did already didnt like the treadmill but people like Gele stayed.

Guess what… Anet made the decision they wanted THOSE players… rather then us. SO they won… and when They all have Ascended.. Transcended will come out and they can all say YES!

All 500 of them.

on the livestream just now the basic damage stats of an ascended greatsword was shown to be 1045-1155, up from 945-100.

is it that hard to make asscendeth i play 4 hours per day i got full ascendeth gear on 4 of my caracters and 10k accivment points o guess what i played gw 1 and i have all titels in that game even god walking amoung mear mortals and it was difrent game u cant compare gw 1 and gw 2 there the stupid gear was passing u where max lvl in day and max gear the same day also

Gele.2048:

is it that hard to make asscendeth i play 4 hours per day i got full ascendeth gear on 4 of my caracters and 10k accivment points o guess what i played gw 1 and i have all titels in that game even god walking amoung mear mortals and it was difrent game u cant compare gw 1 and gw 2 there the stupid gear was passing u where max lvl in day and max gear the same day also

Just imagine what that amount of time spent with a book instead of a video game could have done for the world. Seriously, can’t even read this post, it hurts my brain.

Good job Anet, you made someone happy at least. (Well, I think he/she’s happy, or something, something about god and deth anyway, sounds happy to me.)

I can agree about the phrase “stupid gear” though. Stupid, stupid gear…..

As long as they don’t make some very hard to obtain, very “OP” gear somewhere down the line… that is what ruined the last game I played because then you get all the credit card warriors buying all the best gear and facerolling everyone else in pvp lol. It got old, and did nothing for the game’s progression (and was really only a money grab move by the company running that game).

I just hope Ascended gear can be obtained by everyone, doing whatever they would like to do (rather than tied specifically to a dungeon like fractals for instance). I love that they made the ascended accessories available to everyone with a variety of ways to buy them even though it did not start out that way. And I’m relieved to hear we’ll be able to craft precursors somewhere down the line.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

on the livestream just now the basic damage stats of an ascended greatsword was shown to be 1045-1155, up from 945-100.

Lemme fix that for ya:

Exotic
995-1100
Ascended
1045-1155

Also, I posted those exact stats on the first page of this thread.

Anyhow, http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/2844578

Go watch the preview and see for yourselves.

You guys seem to have seen something very different from what I’ve seen concerning vertical progression and this game.

Majority of complaints with this game had little to nothing to do with gear, now or then before ascended was introduced. From what I saw complaints came from having nothing to do at 80, before ascended and fractals. A huge uproar came after fractals were released and ascended introduced touting “GW survived for as long as it has without it”. Games don’t need vertical progression because of power creep. I agree there, that isn’t the case here. With upscaling and downscaling, that doubly isn’t the case here.

Anet has released ascended items so slow, you think those few items and the prospect of getting more in the future is what kept the type of players you describe? I think not. If those players do exist, majority of them are long gone. The players of that type who have stayed probably didn’t stay because of 1 tier of gear.

This is a “sky is falling thread”, just like all the other ascended item threads.

I think overall, players just wanted something to do. Getting these items and doing fractals and other content to get them is something to do. Don’t you?

I have spent zero time in any groups that called for zerk only, ping your gear. Many of my characters are brim ascended. It hasn’t mattered so far. Won’t matter in the future. I will say though I have joined fractals based on an AR level. If you want to be picking up a player all the time because they don’t have any, then that’s on you.

I remember back when GW2 was announced before EoTN. I remember reading it was that they were going to build a more traditional MMO with more streamlined classes. This first announcement trumps the manifesto in my mind. Or at least the manifesto retellings. Has anyone ever read their companies manifesto? Does your company actually adhere to it line for line? or just vaguely?

I was also playing WoW and EQ at the time and thought how great Tyria would be in that format. Well, we got it and I’m pleased, even with their spin.

The game isn’t based on a treadmill. You don’t need it to complete content. Actually, this is no different than the Magic Find argument. You can complete content with all magic find gear…but many players still have a problem with “gimping the group” in dungeons. Same argument, just a different shade of brown. “If all content can be completed in greens, why do we need exotics, if all content can be done in greens and rares, then why can’t I wear Magic Find gear without some lame crying, why are you wearing MF? Why does he care what I wear?” I personally don’t wear Magic Find and thought it wasn’t done in a practical way (totally backwards idea there), but don’t see a problem with others wearing it.

Anyhow, I like pink instead orange. Pops more.

My only problem with Ascended gear(said it so many times I think I might get it as a tattoo), is that it comes with fixed stats and totally threw out a crafting profession…jewel crafting. Hope armor and weapons don’t throw out sigils/runes.

With that much difference WvW is going to be difficult against anyone with a Legendary especially since the time gating for some of the materials required to build an Ascended. It will be some time before everyone is back to an even footing.

as usual none of you know what to expect.. as of now its all ramblings….

/flame on

Ision.3207:

Mystic.5934:

They made a comment about this a while ago… if only the search function worked. apparently they believe ascended still fits into their grand scheme of no gear treadmill because they had intended to eventually add ascended when they launched, but just didn’t tell anyone about it. I wonder how many other tiers they will add, saying that it was intended to have tier 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. from the start…

ROFL … well said, and bravo

The bottom line is, that GW2 was marketed for years as a game that would not have a heavy gear grind, no must-have classes for dungeons (trinity) and no stat-based vertical progression. It matters NOT the degree in which these elements were explicitly stated or implied. Because through forum posts, feedback and pre-release write-ups – the game company fully understood that the overwhelming majority of people believed those things.

Of course pre-release there were a great many false assumptions made about the game; but quite often whenever a false assumption became widespread, Anet would release a statement that cleared things up. Among the many pre-release “assumptions” made, and repeated endlessly for months on end and in every possible venue imaginable, was that GW2 would have a power/gear plateau once you achieved lvl 80 and a full set of exotics.

As a result, thousands of MMO fans were buzzing loudly about finally finding a full 100% horizontal-progression game for every mode of gameplay: PvE, WvW and PvP. And this was clearly understood as being a fact by the vast majority of people. Interestingly, insofar as the 100% horizontal-progression assumption went, at NO time did Anet feel they needed to “clear things up” with a statement advising folks about another tier of gear and their intention to have vertical progression in GW2. Instead, the horizontal progression “myth”, despite being the single most pervasive myth/assumption about Gw2, that one did not need clearing up until AFTER the game was released and the initial burst of early sales had subsided. Funny that …

If you say so…

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Gele meet GW1, GW1 meet Gele.

We very much would like to have a discussion about low, to no, gear progression requirements… for 8+ years.

Which is why it only sold 6-7 million copies. It was out-done in sales by MINECRAFT.

The original Guild Wars was missing a gear and economic system that made you want to keep playing. Guild Wars 2 has it, and that’s why its the fastest selling MMO in history.

Anet has learned from their mistakes.

Redscope.

You do realize Minecraft is huge right? its not some fly by little known game.

Thats like saying because GW1 didnt outsell WOW we can ignore it. GW1 outsold and out lasted 90% of the MMO games out there.

Ostra.3927:

Redscope.

You do realize Minecraft is huge right? its not some fly by little known game.

Thats like saying because GW1 didnt outsell WOW we can ignore it. GW1 outsold and out lasted 90% of the MMO games out there.

It sold 6 million copies because of the way they counted it. They essentially treated each expansion as an individual game which it isn’t AND they included Eotn in their calculations as well which also skews the numbers.

Theftwind.8976:

With that much difference WvW is going to be difficult against anyone with a Legendary especially since the time gating for some of the materials required to build an Ascended. It will be some time before everyone is back to an even footing.

I have killed players rocking legendaries on my level 60’s wearing greens/rares.
I have died to players (i’m sure of it) who aren’t level 80 as an 80.

Everyone will be getting these items at roughly the same pace. For every person on my server to get 1 item, my opposing servers will have the same pace of players getting these items. WvW was never built to be balanced mind you. WvW isn’t about 1v1.

WvW players in my mind were in the beginning the only players who I thought should have had a gripe with how ascended items were obtained and how it may have thrown off some balance, even though WvW will never be balanced unless you count all teams having all levels of players with all levels of gear.

Redscope.6215:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Gele meet GW1, GW1 meet Gele.

We very much would like to have a discussion about low, to no, gear progression requirements… for 8+ years.

Which is why it only sold 6-7 million copies. It was out-done in sales by MINECRAFT.

The original Guild Wars was missing a gear and economic system that made you want to keep playing. Guild Wars 2 has it, and that’s why its the fastest selling MMO in history.

Anet has learned from their mistakes.

Yes, and it sold that many BECAUSE of GW1 and BECAUSE of what they said it would be which is now clearly what is not.

Antiriad.7160:

(Had to repost because my old posting was removed here, because I speculated about the state of mind of the person responsible for ascended gear, which a moderator didn’t approve of.)

What in the world could make someone add gear that is 11%+ better than exotics, giving you a permanent feel of “this sucks, I cannot fairly compete, because I can’t invest insane amounts of time into this new vertical gear grind —that Arenanet originally promised they’d never add— so I will always have inferior items from now on”?
I’m speechless about this in my opinion bad game design. But anyway, I stopped playing way back when the whole Ascended nonsense was released and I only just got back cause a friend asked me to help him out. You won’t ever see a dime from me until you restore your promise and actual product features you announced when GW2 came out, the reason why I bought it and invested countless hours in it: No gear progression/grind. I invested a lot of time into the game based on that statement of you about what your product would definitely 100% be like, so how about paying me back for that false statement actually?

The increase over exotics should be 3% to 5%, with 5% being the obvious absolute maximum.
As people stated in the usual youtube videos containing criticism on ascended items, it should of course really be 0% -> it is gear you can grind for if you like that fractal dungeon grind -- leave everyone else alone with that kitten instead of forcing them to do things they don’t want to do and play the way they don’t want to play.

Where did they promise they wouldn’t ever add near gear tiers?

Akari Storm.6809:

Theftwind.8976:

With that much difference WvW is going to be difficult against anyone with a Legendary especially since the time gating for some of the materials required to build an Ascended. It will be some time before everyone is back to an even footing.

I have killed players rocking legendaries on my level 60’s wearing greens/rares.
I have died to players (i’m sure of it) who aren’t level 80 as an 80.

Everyone will be getting these items at roughly the same pace. For every person on my server to get 1 item, my opposing servers will have the same pace of players getting these items. WvW was never built to be balanced mind you. WvW isn’t about 1v1.

WvW players in my mind were in the beginning the only players who I thought should have had a gripe with how ascended items were obtained and how it may have thrown off some balance, even though WvW will never be balanced unless you count all teams having all levels of players with all levels of gear.

Soooooo, its great to make it….even more imbalanced rofl right

Wrong Akari

WVW players on the bigger servers will be getting them at the same pace.
WvW players on the lesser populated servers will most likely be getting them at a slower pace. And because of the random matchup system it WILL mean sometimes you are facing teams/zergs with MUCH higher stats then your side does.

Probably should have all just bandwagoned though right?

fellyn.5083:

Antiriad.7160:

(Had to repost because my old posting was removed here, because I speculated about the state of mind of the person responsible for ascended gear, which a moderator didn’t approve of.)

What in the world could make someone add gear that is 11%+ better than exotics, giving you a permanent feel of “this sucks, I cannot fairly compete, because I can’t invest insane amounts of time into this new vertical gear grind —that Arenanet originally promised they’d never add— so I will always have inferior items from now on”?
I’m speechless about this in my opinion bad game design. But anyway, I stopped playing way back when the whole Ascended nonsense was released and I only just got back cause a friend asked me to help him out. You won’t ever see a dime from me until you restore your promise and actual product features you announced when GW2 came out, the reason why I bought it and invested countless hours in it: No gear progression/grind. I invested a lot of time into the game based on that statement of you about what your product would definitely 100% be like, so how about paying me back for that false statement actually?

The increase over exotics should be 3% to 5%, with 5% being the obvious absolute maximum.
As people stated in the usual youtube videos containing criticism on ascended items, it should of course really be 0% -> it is gear you can grind for if you like that fractal dungeon grind -- leave everyone else alone with that kitten instead of forcing them to do things they don’t want to do and play the way they don’t want to play.

Where did they promise they wouldn’t ever add near gear tiers?

It was one of the selling points before launch.

MikaHR.1978:

fellyn.5083:

Antiriad.7160:

(Had to repost because my old posting was removed here, because I speculated about the state of mind of the person responsible for ascended gear, which a moderator didn’t approve of.)

What in the world could make someone add gear that is 11%+ better than exotics, giving you a permanent feel of “this sucks, I cannot fairly compete, because I can’t invest insane amounts of time into this new vertical gear grind —that Arenanet originally promised they’d never add— so I will always have inferior items from now on”?
I’m speechless about this in my opinion bad game design. But anyway, I stopped playing way back when the whole Ascended nonsense was released and I only just got back cause a friend asked me to help him out. You won’t ever see a dime from me until you restore your promise and actual product features you announced when GW2 came out, the reason why I bought it and invested countless hours in it: No gear progression/grind. I invested a lot of time into the game based on that statement of you about what your product would definitely 100% be like, so how about paying me back for that false statement actually?

The increase over exotics should be 3% to 5%, with 5% being the obvious absolute maximum.
As people stated in the usual youtube videos containing criticism on ascended items, it should of course really be 0% -> it is gear you can grind for if you like that fractal dungeon grind -- leave everyone else alone with that kitten instead of forcing them to do things they don’t want to do and play the way they don’t want to play.

Where did they promise they wouldn’t ever add near gear tiers?

It was one of the selling points before launch.

I’m pretty sure it wasn’t. If it was it should be pretty easy for you to find proof of that claim though.

I’ll bet a dollar you won’t be able to find a quote anywhere that says something along the lines of “we will never add a new gear tier to Guild Wars 2”.

In any case why are people acting like this is new? We’ve known Ascended weapons and armor were coming for the better part of a year and that they would be better than exotics.

Ostra.3927:

Redscope.

You do realize Minecraft is huge right? its not some fly by little known game.

Thats like saying because GW1 didnt outsell WOW we can ignore it. GW1 outsold and out lasted 90% of the MMO games out there.

May have outsold many MMO’s. Outlasted 90% of MMO’s though? That’s bold as most MMO’s don’t really shutdown totally. I can name a few that have, but for every one there are probably 5-10 that are still going and still going strong. 3 of the big ones I think are SW:G, City of Heroes and maybe MXO. APB and Tabula Rasa were never big. EQ, Ultima, Asheron’s Call, DAoC and many others still exist. I mean kitten..people still play runscape.

Ostra.3927:

Wrong Akari

WVW players on the bigger servers will be getting them at the same pace.
WvW players on the lesser populated servers will most likely be getting them at a slower pace. And because of the random matchup system it WILL mean sometimes you are facing teams/zergs with MUCH higher stats then your side does.

Probably should have all just bandwagoned though right?

And lesser populated servers usually fight lesser populated servers right? I dunno, random matchup system isn’t that random. Can’t tell you how many times SoR has faced JQ and BG for about half a year. First week of the change I think we got a T3 server and crushed them by 200k. Since week 1 of the new change we faced one maybe 2 T2 servers. The rest of the spring and summer it’s been nothing but JQ and BG.

Redscope.6215:

Anet has learned from their mistakes.

Exactly. In GW1, pets used to get massacred by spectral agony before they finally made a change that made pets inherit the infusions from their owners. They learned from their mistake.

Which is why pets inherited their master’s agony resistance when fractals were released, right?

crickets

Thats because you are on one of the top 4 servers Akari. being on kaineng I have seen this random match up swing us from facing (we are number 12 at the time) a rank 4 and a rank 6 at the same time.

Bad luck doesnt matter. The fact is at LEAST when we got even numbers we could stand a chance… now… not so much. They will be flipping towers and keeps much faster then the low pop servers.

You did not know what it was like, or what it will do to WvW except in your little bubble. That is why I KNEW you were on one of the bandwagon servers. Its a different world up there. I have been there I know.

Outlasted mean they had a steady and significant playerbase.

EQ is still there… but it was done for many years ago now.
SW:G does not have a playerbase anymore. Its a dead world with about 2000 players.
City of heroes lasted 3 years before they were also down to a dead zone. I believe they have shut their doors now.

a handful of players do not count. I lively server that still gathers new members does. None of the ones except maybe Runescape you mentiond are GAINING players.

Ostra.3927:

Thats because you are on one of the top 4 servers Akari. being on kaineng I have seen this random match up swing us from facing (we are number 12 at the time) a rank 4 and a rank 6 at the same time.

Bad luck doesnt matter. The fact is at LEAST when we got even numbers we could stand a chance… now… not so much. They will be flipping towers and keeps much faster then the low pop servers.

You did not know what it was like, or what it will do to WvW except in your little bubble. That is why I KNEW you were on one of the bandwagon servers. Its a different world up there. I have been there I know.

Outlasted mean they had a steady and significant playerbase.

EQ is still there… but it was done for many years ago now.
SW:G does not have a playerbase anymore. Its a dead world with about 2000 players.
City of heroes lasted 3 years before they were also down to a dead zone. I believe they have shut their doors now.

a handful of players do not count. I lively server that still gathers new members does. None of the ones except maybe Runescape you mentiond are GAINING players.

I still play GW. It’s not gaining players and probably haven’t been gaining players since after the release of EOTN. That was 6 years ago. 2 years after prophecies released. Been to Kaineng City recently? Been to LA? Shing Jea? Kamadan? FA? JQ? Most times these places are dead zones. Kam with one district. FA gets no playtime. People still working on titles for this game farm rep in JQ.

I went to ascalon yesterday just for nostalgia purposes and not one person was there. I even went to PRE, which was a hot spot for a very long time…maybe 2 people.

EQ/Ultima/Daoc are about as far from dead as GW is and they have been around since 6 years prior.

Edit: I’m in Lions Arch right now…5ppl total

zencow.3651:

Oh, but that AMA claims there won’t be anything after ascended, only improved infusions. Or am I just reading that in a wrong way?

Depends how you might read it – what they said means that while there might not be any new differently named tier of gear, there will eventually be items of the same tier with better stats (so, no to Divine weapons, but yes to newer, upgraded Ascended 2.0 with better stats) as well as increasing stats through other means (i.e. infusions. or level cap raising)

I’m surprised no one has done the math for ascended weapons.

I suppose my biggest concern over ascended is that, even though it is only a 5% increase, it is a 5% increase of everything. When you have the full ascended armor, weapons, and trinkets, you’ll have 5% more of everything than if you didn’t. So, looking at the damage formula:

Damage = Power x Weapon Attack x Coefficient / Armor x Crit mod

Coefficient and armor are constant, so we can ignore that. Now, lets say that we go with a berserker ascended set, and we get 5% more attack, 5% more power, 5% more precision, and 5% more crit damage. Now, lets look at how those stats will work.

Power would be 5% more from what armor and trinkets give. You already have 916 power to start, and a full set of exotic berserker gives 1003 Power. 5% of that is 50, so you can add this 50 power onto whatever build you want. I’m going to assume a full 30 points into a power line, just for example sake, as well as ruby orbs on the armor. So, overall power raises from 2339 to 2389, which is a 2.1% increase in damag.

Precision would get a further 35 precision, which is about 1.5% crit rate. I’m also going to assume 300 precision from traits, so a full build will have 1082 precision, or kitten .5% crit rate. Ascended raises that up to 57%.

Attack power is just a flat 5% increase.

Crit damage is a kittene, since it increases by more than 5%. Where exotic trinkets give a total of 36% crit damage, the ascended gives a total of 44%. This is a total increase of 22%, and the rest of the stats will likely follow suit. So, while full exotic gives 62% crit damage, ascended will give 76% crit damage, or 14% extra. Assuming ruby orbs an at least 100 trait points, this will mean a total increase from 84 to 96. Since crit damage starts out at 150, this comes to a total increase of about 5%.

So, looking at that damage formula again:

Damage = 1.021 Power x 1.05 weapon attack x constant stuff x crit mod

old crit mod:

55% x 2.34 + 45% = 1.737

New crit mod:
57% x 2.46 + 43% = 1.832

Crit mod’s total increase is 5.5%

In the end, we have 1.02 × 1.05 × 1.055 =1.1299 = 13% increase in damage.

Note, this number can change depending on what build you use, but for now I just went with a fairly generic berserker skeleton.

Add this on top of the fact that you’ll also have 5% more armor, so you’ll take anywhere from 2.5% less damage to 2.8% less damage. When fighting another player in full ascended while you have full exotics, he hits you 13% harder, and you hit him for 2.5% less, given generic builds.

Considering that attacks hit upwards to 8k or so, that 13% is an extra 1040 damage, while you’ll instead hit for 7800. That comes to a total difference of 15.9% total effectiveness between the two of you. That is a little too high of a statistical difference for me to be comfortable.

So overall, when comparing ascended to exotic, bear in mind that the cumulative effect is much higher than advertised. You can do the math with different numbers if you so choose, but remember that the less that is invested there, the more ascended makes a difference.

I dont think new ascended gear will be an issue in pve but wvw now thats a different story. Lots of WvWers dislike pve and would rather avoid it. WvW can get quite competitive and no one wants to be at a disadvantage. WvWers will be forced to grind to get the gear ito remain on equal footing, its worse for those who have alts with a couple of different sets for each toon.

Some peope will do the grind but I think this matter will cause some people to move onto a different game. My suggestion would be to keep the new ascended gear a pvE thing only and upon entering WvW the gear would be scaled down to exotic stats. I know that lots of wvwers current builds are based on using ascended trinkets so that would remain the same.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m surprised no one has done the math for ascended weapons.

I suppose my biggest concern over ascended is that, even though it is only a 5% increase, it is a 5% increase of everything. When you have the full ascended armor, weapons, and trinkets, you’ll have 5% more of everything than if you didn’t. So, looking at the damage formula:

Damage = Power x Weapon Attack x Coefficient / Armor x Crit mod

Coefficient and armor are constant, so we can ignore that. Now, lets say that we go with a berserker ascended set, and we get 5% more attack, 5% more power, 5% more precision, and 5% more crit damage. Now, lets look at how those stats will work.

Power would be 5% more from what armor and trinkets give. You already have 916 power to start, and a full set of exotic berserker gives 1003 Power. 5% of that is 50, so you can add this 50 power onto whatever build you want. I’m going to assume a full 30 points into a power line, just for example sake, as well as ruby orbs on the armor. So, overall power raises from 2339 to 2389, which is a 2.1% increase in damag.

Precision would get a further 35 precision, which is about 1.5% crit rate. I’m also going to assume 300 precision from traits, so a full build will have 1082 precision, or kitten .5% crit rate. Ascended raises that up to 57%.

Attack power is just a flat 5% increase.

Crit damage is a kittene, since it increases by more than 5%. Where exotic trinkets give a total of 36% crit damage, the ascended gives a total of 44%. This is a total increase of 22%, and the rest of the stats will likely follow suit. So, while full exotic gives 62% crit damage, ascended will give 76% crit damage, or 14% extra. Assuming ruby orbs an at least 100 trait points, this will mean a total increase from 84 to 96. Since crit damage starts out at 150, this comes to a total increase of about 5%.

So, looking at that damage formula again:

Damage = 1.021 Power x 1.05 weapon attack x constant stuff x crit mod

old crit mod:

55% x 2.34 + 45% = 1.737

New crit mod:
57% x 2.46 + 43% = 1.832

Crit mod’s total increase is 5.5%

In the end, we have 1.02 × 1.05 × 1.055 =1.1299 = 13% increase in damage.

Note, this number can change depending on what build you use, but for now I just went with a fairly generic berserker skeleton.

Add this on top of the fact that you’ll also have 5% more armor, so you’ll take anywhere from 2.5% less damage to 2.8% less damage. When fighting another player in full ascended while you have full exotics, he hits you 13% harder, and you hit him for 2.5% less, given generic builds.

Considering that attacks hit upwards to 8k or so, that 13% is an extra 1040 damage, while you’ll instead hit for 7800. That comes to a total difference of 15.9% total effectiveness between the two of you. That is a little too high of a statistical difference for me to be comfortable.

So overall, when comparing ascended to exotic, bear in mind that the cumulative effect is much higher than advertised. You can do the math with different numbers if you so choose, but remember that the less that is invested there, the more ascended makes a difference.

The stat difference is as advertised, but you’re right that stat synergy makes the increase in damage higher. Zerkers in particular has great stat synergy. This isn’t unique to Ascended pieces, though. Go from Rare to Exotic and you see the same thing.

My main concern with Ascended is in WvW. The only place treadmilling will happen is there, and stat increases like this can sometimes have unintended consequences. For example, I’m wondering if damage output will outpace mitigation, and if it does will it have any significant impact on WvW.

Epistemic.8013:

The stat difference is as advertised, but you’re right that stat synergy makes the increase in damage higher. Zerkers in particular has great stat synergy. This isn’t unique to Ascended pieces, though. Go from Rare to Exotic and you see the same thing.

My main concern with Ascended is in WvW. The only place treadmilling will happen is there, and stat increases like this can sometimes have unintended consequences. For example, I’m wondering if damage output will outpace mitigation, and if it does will it have any significant impact on WvW.

The debate is that ascended is way too expensive and hard to get, whereas exotics are something that can be obtained relatively easily.

The contrast is that defensive sets will become more defensive, too. Soldier’s gear will have 5% more vitality, 5% more toughness, and also 5% more armor, and those will all cooperate with each other.

Juunro.7082:

The things are almost certainly going to be bind on equip; if you can’t (or won’t) level up one of the prerequisite crafting skills to make the things, just farm cash and buy one. Or buy the components and commission one from a friend.

It might (will) take you longer, but whatever; it’s not like there is going to be content that you can’t do without the things. And really, 5-10% extra damage isn’t all that much. sPVP is capped on stats and WvW is pretty much already built to be unfair on a solo level, so… what? You think people will kick you from groups for not having one? If they do, those aren’t groups that are worth the time to begin with.

pretty confident that they are not planning to allow that.

the said the weapons are account bound if you give your friend that mats to make a ascended weapon you just made his life (on gw2) a little easier and a lot harder on you. this also means they won’t be in the tp but components will be.

simply put you will have to at least lvl a crafting skill.

Redscope.6215:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Gele.2048:

o grow up u had 1 year whit exotic only what do you like to play this game 10 years whit the gear from day 1 that u made ? no progres at all in gear ? shallow thing for mmo dont u think

Gele meet GW1, GW1 meet Gele.

We very much would like to have a discussion about low, to no, gear progression requirements… for 8+ years.

Which is why it only sold 6-7 million copies. It was out-done in sales by MINECRAFT.

The original Guild Wars was missing a gear and economic system that made you want to keep playing. Guild Wars 2 has it, and that’s why its the fastest selling MMO in history.

Anet has learned from their mistakes.

ugh gw2 didn’t really have a gear treadmill like what their talking about when they claimed that tittle so it’s a bit of a moot point.

people are upset they have to do work to get exactly where they are now and can’t blame them their are going to be issues for casuals especially and alt users as well due to this update and honestly I would love to see it explained why we can buy the tier that was designed for people to work toward yet we can’t buy ascended tis a tad puzzling me thinks.

Redscope.6215:

The original Guild Wars was missing a gear and economic system that made you want to keep playing. Guild Wars 2 has it, and that’s why its the fastest selling MMO in history.

It’s the fastest selling MMO in history due to the amount of sales before introducing the ascended. Which were severely buffed by a GW1 community trying to transfer to a new game en masse.
The question is – would it have been the fastest selling MMO in history if all the changes for this first year were known beforehand? I think not.

Redscope.6215:

The original Guild Wars was missing a gear and economic system that made you want to keep playing. Guild Wars 2 has it, and that’s why its the fastest selling MMO in history.

Anet has learned from their mistakes.

A bunch of nonsense. GW2 sold so many copies because they promised no vertical progression (and many other stuff of course, but they broke all their promises).

Thrashbarg.9820:

Gele.2048:

is it that hard to make asscendeth i play 4 hours per day i got full ascendeth gear on 4 of my caracters and 10k accivment points o guess what i played gw 1 and i have all titels in that game even god walking amoung mear mortals and it was difrent game u cant compare gw 1 and gw 2 there the stupid gear was passing u where max lvl in day and max gear the same day also

Just imagine what that amount of time spent with a book instead of a video game could have done for the world. Seriously, can’t even read this post, it hurts my brain.

Good job Anet, you made someone happy at least. (Well, I think he/she’s happy, or something, something about god and deth anyway, sounds happy to me.)

I can agree about the phrase “stupid gear” though. Stupid, stupid gear…..

i find this overly rude and harrasment which makes you sound like a baby spitting its dummy out in perfect english…

anet warned that FOTM and ASCENDED were coming out at launch as there end game wasnt finnished and they were rushed to release

you can get ascended in WvW from drops and im sure theres champs, towers, camps and exsotic drops… wait thats all you need for ascended and yeah to craft…

this should really be a pluss to WvW due to ledgondarys needing 100% map and dungons while acsended can be made in WvW so relaly its there way of geting the stats of others

BlackWolf.8605:

anet warned that FOTM and ASCENDED were coming out at launch as there end game wasnt finnished and they were rushed to release

They absolutely did not – when Ascended was announced (Oct/Nov) they said “they had been planning it all along”, it just was not finished at launch.

HUGE difference.

Aphix.9846:

I dont see the problem, the increase is not much at all and it really doesnt make a noticeable difference.
Exotic gear is way too easy to get anyway, need something to work towards sometimes.
Some people have more than 2 hours a week to enjoy this game and feel like a new tier can only do good for them.

exotic gear is indeed way too easy to get…if you pve alot. i find the pve in this game absolutely deplorable. since the living stories do not find us WvWers fit to be included in them, i am forced to pve to get the incredible rewards that come with them.
same with the achievement chests. WvW achievements are currently unobtainable, so if i want any of the chests i’m forced to pve. if i want any gold for the new items, i’m forced to pve. if i want cool weapon skins, pve. and to date, the mobs that scarlet spawn are the only challenging thing to come out of pve to date. when they are gone, it will become stupidly easy again. thus boring and no challenge.

silvermember.8941:

Ostra.3927:

Redscope.

You do realize Minecraft is huge right? its not some fly by little known game.

Thats like saying because GW1 didnt outsell WOW we can ignore it. GW1 outsold and out lasted 90% of the MMO games out there.

It sold 6 million copies because of the way they counted it. They essentially treated each expansion as an individual game which it isn’t AND they included Eotn in their calculations as well which also skews the numbers.

Each expansion could be played without the first game (except EotN) that is its own game..

As for the topic i agree with the op.