Guild Wars 2

Below is a list of traits which affect attack speeds ( let me know if there is any I’ve missed, I’ll add to the list)

It is my understanding that these types of traits do not stack with quickness (also, if there are any that are proven to stack, I’ll strike them out on the list).

This ( particularly in raids) but in any game mode feels to me like it has a hindering effect on build choices.

Personally I think these traits should either be reworked ( either % damage increase, or boosting the effects in other ways such as longer condis) or be made to stack with quickness. In the berserkers case Berserk & dual wielding should stack with each other & quickness.

It would be a shame to see even more traits or effects like this in future elite specs, that can be rendered entirely useless in coordinated group settings.

The list so far:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lead_the_Wind
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserk
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skilled_Marksman
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malicious_Sorcery
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Onslaught
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dual_Wielding

They don’t stack with quickness because quickness gets you to the attack speed cap. You can’t get any faster than that currently. And honestly this would be broken if these traits stacked with quickness.

25% movement speed traits/runes/signets dont stack with 33% swiftness boon either for a reason.

Imagine 25% trait,33% swiftness, 50% superspeed and 40% mushroom.

OriOri.8724:

They don’t stack with quickness because quickness gets you to the attack speed cap. You can’t get any faster than that currently. And honestly this would be broken if these traits stacked with quickness.

And it used to be 100% cap, pre quickness nerf. So its not a case of they cant increase the cap to accommodate said traits.
That being said it would be easier just to rework them.

Am the only one who doesn’t have a problem with this? I mean yes, it sucks, but there are so few sources of quickness, and of those that are there, they tend to last for really small durations and have really long recharge times, making it hard to have it for long periods of time. If it was easier to have perma quickness, then I would agree with you, but for now, I just don’t see the problem with how it is now.

Uden Reavstone.3426:

Am the only one who doesn’t have a problem with this? I mean yes, it sucks, but there are so few sources of quickness, and of those that are there, they tend to last for really small durations and have really long recharge times, making it hard to have it for long periods of time. If it was easier to have perma quickness, then I would agree with you, but for now, I just don’t see the problem with how it is now.

Your argument is double edged. If it has so little impact then what’s the problem with allowing coordination to be rewarded? However you are misinformed regarding quickness uptime.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Tank/Support_Sword/x
See this build if you would like to better inform yourself.

Comparing speed boost to stack speed may be similar at a mathematical calculation level, but not at a functional game mechanic level.

If the balance devs would rather rework them to be damage modifiers or something else for condi oriented weapons/traits then so be it. However I think that would be a shame.

As it stands these traits are not usable to their full potential in coordinated environments, which has a significant impact on build choices.
These traits just don’t feel like good traits to take in coordinated groups, which is a real shame considering the potential. In addition many weapon sets appear to be balanced around these traits being an option (ultimately rendering them under powered in those scenarios).

I don’t know if it’s these traits that need to be reworked, or potential Quickness uptime from Chrono that needs to be reworked. There are also many traits and skills which grant Quickness which are blown over because of Chrono Quickness uptime; in particular, Impossible Odds and Applied Force are Quickness effects that would likely make these classes viable if Chrono wasn’t available.

Lahmia.2193:

OriOri.8724:

They don’t stack with quickness because quickness gets you to the attack speed cap. You can’t get any faster than that currently. And honestly this would be broken if these traits stacked with quickness.

And it used to be 100% cap, pre quickness nerf. So its not a case of they cant increase the cap to accommodate said traits.
That being said it would be easier just to rework them.

This is true, I should have been more careful with my wording. There’s nothing stopping Anet from allowing the attack speed cap to go higher than it currently does, but right now Quickness is the maximum, so players can’t get above that attack speed without hacking/exploiting a serious bug.

Ok so where is your buffing Chrono in PvP? Where is your Chrono if you are somewhere alone?
Just because some builds can create perma quickness it doesn’t mean that traits that don’t stack with quickness are entirely useless.
My Ele can stack swiftness for 1-2 minutes whenever he wants. So lets remove Signet of Air and movement traits… Same logic. And if we follow that logic further all movementspeed increaing traits, signets and runes should be reworked because you get perma swiftness from some builds which renders them useless, right?
Just don’t take that traits if you get quickness and you are fine.

Anet should completely rework both – these traits and boons – including quickness.

To make the balance of this game better, there should exist 1 simple rule in regard of attack speed increasements – You can’t have BOTH!

Means, if Anet wants to keep these traits, then it should mean as logical consequence, that Quickness has to be removed out of the game.

If ANet rather wants to keep quickness in the game, then this should mean that ANet should remove as logical consequence all these traits out of the game and replace them with better new and general more useful traits for the classes, that help better defining the build diversity of the class or which try fixing problems that the class has, because the class lacks on something because class has has for role Y no traits what could help alot that said Class could become more wanted to be played with together, if said class would have such a trait that removes its lacking potential instead of having such useless attack speed traits, that are simply overshadowed by Quickness and don’t stack.

The whole movement speed topic tornupto mentions is just another thing thats irking me for a long time about this games combat system where its devs seem to care only about number changes on skills and traits and mostly ignore all the rest of it for over 4 years now, as if any other combat system mechanics like upgrades, base health values, attributes and their effects, boons & conditions ect. play absolutely no role ….

And yes, if these developers would follow ANY logic in what they do and change and if their decisions would follow also simple consequences, then this would have to mean also, that useless movement speed traits deserve it to be redesigned, if they are essentially completely obsolete by their class design and also here should exist the simple rule…

If you can receive basically permanent movement speed increase from traits, you should be able to get that from boons as well and these effects shouldn’t stack.
In this case we already have that.
25+ Movement Speed Increase and Swiftness don’t stack, it replaces only the 25% effect as long Swiftness is active with its 33%.

Personally I think it would be much better fior the games balance, if Anet completely removes all thouse permanent +25 movement speed effects from traits and runnes and focuses here on those classes, that should be able to move consequently faster than others, that these classes receive from that point on simply more access to Super Speed as replacement and more acccess to Swiftness/longer swiftness durations.

That would make everything alot simpler and would create in regard of traits again new space for more useful traits that replace then this permanent 25% movement speed garbage.

The whole combat system of this game has become over the years a total mess, because of Anet doctoring around always only on numbers of skills and traits…
Its long overdue, that the other mechanics receive finally a strogn lookover, to bring this game finally from its outdated 2012 state to better harmonizing system, where all aspects of the combat system synergize and not where only two of six base mechanics of this game find some consequent attention by Anet, while the rest rots there in the dark since release date of the game!!!

Comparing movement speed to attack speed is comparing apples and pears.
Movement speed is always just movement speed.

However those traits (berserk being the exception) affect specific weapons.
Resulting in builds using those weapons being under powered compared to other weapons on the same class, because the traits for them can be negated.
It feels bad choosing those weapons/ builds that should be competitive with other weapons but aren’t.
Choosing those weapons feels bad (like shooting yourself in the foot).

Meanwhile traits like this exist:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Curse

Which does effectively stack with quickness.

How many traits will work like this with the next elite specs, making those weapons less powerful than they should be in coordinated groups?

One thing, for Dual Wielding at least, is that it decreases the aftercast as well as increasing attack speed. So it does have some effect if you have quickness.

Those traits were obviously intended for material gathering. :P

Lahmia.2193:

One thing, for Dual Wielding at least, is that it decreases the aftercast as well as increasing attack speed. So it does have some effect if you have quickness.

Quickness doesn’t work in quite the way one might expect.

It increases action per second, rather than a reduction in cast times.

So a skill that takes 1 second to complete ( including aftercast) means 1 action per second.

Applying quickness should make that action take ~ 0.66 seconds to complete. Leaving time to complete 50% of the skills activation again. Resulting in 1.5 actions per second ( a 50% increase over 1 action per second).

So if your skill takes 0.9s to cast, and 0.1s after cast.
Applying the reduction of 33% to the cast time ( but not the after cast), then adding to the after cast would yield a complete cast time of 0.7s

So 1.5 actions would effectively take 0.7 + 0.45 ( 0.7/2) or 1.15 seconds for 1.5 actions.
Resulting in ~1.4 actions per second ( not 1.5 actions/sec).
the trait should not further reduce aftercast ( in it’s current state of not stacking with quickness).

TLDR:
if what you are saying is correct, either: after cast reductions are already stacking; or quickness is borked and needs fixing to reduce after cast times as well.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Lahmia.2193:

One thing, for Dual Wielding at least, is that it decreases the aftercast as well as increasing attack speed. So it does have some effect if you have quickness.

Quickness doesn’t work in quite the way one might expect.

It increases action per second, rather than a reduction in cast times.

So a skill that takes 1 second to complete ( including aftercast) means 1 action per second.

Applying quickness should make that action take ~ 0.66 seconds to complete. Leaving time to complete 50% of the skills activation again. Resulting in 1.5 actions per second ( a 50% increase over 1 action per second).

So if your skill takes 0.9s to cast, and 0.1s after cast.
Applying the reduction of 33% to the cast time ( but not the after cast), then adding to the after cast would yield a complete cast time of 0.7s

So 1.5 actions would effectively take 0.7 + 0.45 ( 0.7/2) or 1.15 seconds for 1.5 actions.
Resulting in ~1.4 actions per second ( not 1.5 actions/sec).
the trait should not further reduce aftercast ( in it’s current state of not stacking with quickness).

TLDR:
if what you are saying is correct, either: after cast reductions are already stacking; or quickness is borked and needs fixing to reduce after cast times as well.

Ok yup, I was wrong.