Guild Wars 2

The player base doesn’t want it to change and Anet doesn’t want it to change. Rewarding dead bodies is never going to happen. It’s very odd that a few posters here think there is some sort of discussion to be had.

Inviting any form of just hitting something to a certain point then afking for full rewards when dead has absolutely no chance of happening. Just entitlement to the fullest when we were given auto loot not too long ago.

MoarChaos.8320:

The player base doesn’t want it to change and Anet doesn’t want it to change. Rewarding dead bodies is never going to happen. It’s very odd that a few posters here think there is some sort of discussion to be had.

Inviting any form of just hitting something to a certain point then afking for full rewards when dead has absolutely no chance of happening. Just entitlement to the fullest when we were given auto loot not too long ago.

I think the phrase you’re looking for is “Anet has given an inch and the OP demands a mile”.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Nokaru.7831:

Defending the fact that quick-loot doesn’t work while defeated is suggesting that, “Well, you had loot rights, but they’ve been revoked temporarily.”

Or it’s saying that mechanic works differently in different games.

(As a counter example, it’s fine; it’s equally fine for some games not to reward loot if dead.)

Actually you can’t because in dungeon settings in WoW and other games like it, the amount of time that it takes for loot to disappear is very very long. Dungeons are their sole process of getting loot and having events in games like WoW whereas GW2 has loot that disappears after just 60 seconds. Often that means that people cannot release, go to a waypoint that is a long distance away, avoid all of the mobs on the map to get to said chest only to find it gone.

And then there’s the issue of the chests being out of view while in the midst of battle.

I cannot tell you how many times I’ve noticed a wooden box from enemies that bosses in the open world summon that when they finally move out of the way so we can see it through all of the AOE fields other players are doing as well as the boss attacks, I run up to get them only to find they go poof!

So it’s not just a downed problem it’s a problem with the timer on loot itself.

MoarChaos.8320:

The player base doesn’t want it to change and Anet doesn’t want it to change. Rewarding dead bodies is never going to happen. It’s very odd that a few posters here think there is some sort of discussion to be had.

Inviting any form of just hitting something to a certain point then afking for full rewards when dead has absolutely no chance of happening. Just entitlement to the fullest when we were given auto loot not too long ago.

And that’s the thing. It doesn’t matter what other games do. In this game, it would give an incentive to providing a negative contribution that makes others work harder, and that is why I think it’s a bad idea. I mean sure, people come in all kinds of skill level and it’s inevitable that stronger players will have to carry others— however we shouldn’t make it more convenient to get carried.

It’s okay if you want to lay dead and get ress’d later. You just have to deal with the consequence of not getting a few crappy spikes and bags of marginal value. In WvW, loot already has a much higher QoL baked in too. Bags already teleport to your location if you are alive therefore there is actually no need to be near the defeated targeted at all (you can respawn immediately and receive any incoming bags anyways….). You can even do things like tag a champion lord , run off, and then get the champ bag in front of you!

So yea, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, thy name is entitlement.

ArchonWing.9480:

MoarChaos.8320:

The player base doesn’t want it to change and Anet doesn’t want it to change. Rewarding dead bodies is never going to happen. It’s very odd that a few posters here think there is some sort of discussion to be had.

Inviting any form of just hitting something to a certain point then afking for full rewards when dead has absolutely no chance of happening. Just entitlement to the fullest when we were given auto loot not too long ago.

And that’s the thing. It doesn’t matter what other games do. In this game, it would give an incentive to providing a negative contribution that makes others work harder, and that is why I think it’s a bad idea. I mean sure, people come in all kinds of skill level and it’s inevitable that stronger players will have to carry others— however we shouldn’t make it more convenient to get carried.

It’s okay if you want to lay dead and get ress’d later. You just have to deal with the consequence of not getting a few crappy spikes and bags of marginal value. In WvW, loot already has a much higher QoL baked in too. Bags already teleport to your location if you are alive therefore there is actually no need to be near the defeated targeted at all (you can respawn immediately and receive any incoming bags anyways….). You can even do things like tag a champion lord , run off, and then get the champ bag in front of you!

So yea, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, thy name is entitlement.

your validating my point “Bags already teleport to your location if you are alive therefore there is actually no need to be near the defeated targeted at all (you can re-spawn immediately and receive any incoming bags anyways….).” Why not just have it go in your inventory. I don’t know what you guys are talking about

Franky, Gaile has derailed the thread, and when she asked for clarification I gave it, and then she had no response. Now i get posts talking about how it encourages laying dead and getting loot or entitlement from having, bags go into your inventory? (which makes no sense.)

All of the auto loot features make it so that you can get the loot instantaneously regardless if you died or not. The old mechanics are still overlaying the new auto loot features. The new auto loot features allow you to BYPASS the old loot mechanics, by raising up instantly.

WHY NOT update it and streamline it so it just goes into your inventory? WHY SHOULD waypointing instantly give you the bags as opposed to laying there for a couple of seconds and wondering if you should wait for a raise? WHY should that affect whether Mobs you tagged that were killed, shouldn’t give loot into your inventory directly. There is no difference. I dont understand why you guys think that laying dead would then “ENCOURAGE” staying dead to “get your loot” which = “entitlement”

Apparently RAISING UP instantly = “not entitlement?” it also = “not being a leech?” it also negates any “death penalty” associated with death. so yah streamline it….. which is the point of my thread.

Also how is laying dead any different then waypointing instantly and then immediately AFKing? While your in downed state you have your map pulled up and are spamming the waypoint, while not using any downed state skills or seeing if anyone is going to raise you, so that you can raise instantly because you don’t want the loot to fall on the ground (this is the type of behavior that this encourages)). How is this behavior any better then just having it go into your inventory and then waypointing?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

ArchonWing.9480:

MoarChaos.8320:

The player base doesn’t want it to change and Anet doesn’t want it to change. Rewarding dead bodies is never going to happen. It’s very odd that a few posters here think there is some sort of discussion to be had.

Inviting any form of just hitting something to a certain point then afking for full rewards when dead has absolutely no chance of happening. Just entitlement to the fullest when we were given auto loot not too long ago.

And that’s the thing. It doesn’t matter what other games do. In this game, it would give an incentive to providing a negative contribution that makes others work harder, and that is why I think it’s a bad idea. I mean sure, people come in all kinds of skill level and it’s inevitable that stronger players will have to carry others— however we shouldn’t make it more convenient to get carried.

It’s okay if you want to lay dead and get ress’d later. You just have to deal with the consequence of not getting a few crappy spikes and bags of marginal value. In WvW, loot already has a much higher QoL baked in too. Bags already teleport to your location if you are alive therefore there is actually no need to be near the defeated targeted at all (you can respawn immediately and receive any incoming bags anyways….). You can even do things like tag a champion lord , run off, and then get the champ bag in front of you!

So yea, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, thy name is entitlement.

your validating my point “Bags already teleport to your location if you are alive therefore there is actually no need to be near the defeated targeted at all (you can re-spawn immediately and receive any incoming bags anyways….).” Why not just have it go in your inventory. I don’t know what you guys are talking about

I didn’t validate anything. I’m saying it’s already easy enough.

All of the auto loot features make it so that you can get the loot instantaneously regardless if you died or not. The old mechanics are still overlaying the new auto loot features. The new auto loot features allow you to BYPASS the old loot mechanics, by raising up instantly.

It does not allow you to do anything you couldn’t have done manually. This is a false statement. Bags following you predates autoloot. And these can only be done by a non-defeated player.

WHY NOT update it and streamline it so it just goes into your inventory? WHY SHOULD waypointing instantly give you the bags as opposed to laying there for a couple of seconds and wondering if you should wait for a raise? WHY should that affect whether Mobs you tagged that were killed, shouldn’t give loot into your inventory directly. There is no difference. I dont understand why you guys think that laying dead would then “ENCOURAGE” staying dead to “get your loot” which = “entitlement”

Because by laying down dead, you are making it harder for other people that are still fighting by interfering with their interact ability, in particular ressing people that are downed, not defeated. PvErs and WvWers know that ressing double downed during a fight is nothing but a hazard because it prevents the ressing of downed players that are still contributing to the fight as well as endangering the ressers themselves.

So yea, there is a difference. By laying dead, you are a hazard. You are providing a negative contribution. And that shouldn’t be rewarded.

Apparently RAISING UP instantly = “not entitlement?” it also = “not being a leech?” it also negates any “death penalty” associated with death. so yah streamline it….. which is the point of my thread.

Also how is laying dead any different then waypointing instantly and then immediately AFKing? While your in downed state you have your map pulled up and are spamming the waypoint, while not using any downed state skills or seeing if anyone is going to raise you, so that you can raise instantly because you don’t want the loot to fall on the ground (this is the type of behavior that this encourages)). How is this behavior any better then just having it go into your inventory and then waypointing?

Yes, you have the decency of not cluttering out the battlefield, endangering other players, and have the CHOICE of running back. Whether you do it or not is another story. But it is a step further than just laying there and gets more rewards.

If laying dead is such a hazard then why don’t they just change it so that you auto warp to the nearest wp on death instantly?

I don’t have the time to read through five pages, so I am just going to say this: In WvW, it can get a bit frustrating when you can’t pick up your loot upon dying, especially when your squad goes down as well and then doesn’t return to the location (so you can’t pick it up afterwards, either). Not that the loot in WvW was all that valuable, but still.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

If laying dead is such a hazard then why don’t they just change it so that you auto warp to the nearest wp on death instantly?

Because that would be stupid. The game requires player input to work lol. I don’t understand how it’s so hard to comprehend that having a penalty for dying is a good thing. In case people haven’t pointed this out. Dead bodies on the field scale the bosses and events up making them a hazard. If Anet alows you to loot on death, there would be no need to participate in the event. Which means that more dead bodies would pop up and the events would get even harder to complete as time went on. Can you not see the problem with that?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

If laying dead is such a hazard then why don’t they just change it so that you auto warp to the nearest wp on death instantly?

Because sometimes you win the fight and you have people there to pull you up.

If people are going to be so adamant about loot not being put in inventory because you, in Gaile’s words, “failed”, then I’d like to suggest that we also stop receiving participation rewards all together.

I’m fine with the bags not going to inventory if you are dead, but if people are going to call that entitlement, I think failing events should reward nothing as well.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

If laying dead is such a hazard then why don’t they just change it so that you auto warp to the nearest wp on death instantly?

Because not every situation is a hazardous one, eg fight ends, people come across your dead body.

And they have been discouraging it, without prohibiting it. There was no 5 minute timer in the past. Of course , there are always extenuating circumstances and the timer is meant to compensate for it.

tigirius.9014:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Nokaru.7831:

Defending the fact that quick-loot doesn’t work while defeated is suggesting that, “Well, you had loot rights, but they’ve been revoked temporarily.”

Or it’s saying that mechanic works differently in different games.

(As a counter example, it’s fine; it’s equally fine for some games not to reward loot if dead.)

Actually you can’t because in dungeon settings in WoW and other games like it, the amount of time that it takes for loot to disappear is very very long. Dungeons are their sole process of getting loot and having events in games like WoW whereas GW2 has loot that disappears after just 60 seconds. Often that means that people cannot release, go to a waypoint that is a long distance away, avoid all of the mobs on the map to get to said chest only to find it gone.

And then there’s the issue of the chests being out of view while in the midst of battle.

I cannot tell you how many times I’ve noticed a wooden box from enemies that bosses in the open world summon that when they finally move out of the way so we can see it through all of the AOE fields other players are doing as well as the boss attacks, I run up to get them only to find they go poof!

So it’s not just a downed problem it’s a problem with the timer on loot itself.

Right, loot gathering works different in different games; there’s nothing wrong with that.

The fact that there’s a tiny chance I might miss out on loot in GW2 encourages me to die less. I’m okay with the mechanic the way it is. Having autoloot also work while dead would be great, too; I just don’t think it’s worth ANet’s time, when there are so many other things we want from their limited time.

Everyone on here argues both sides and talk out of both sides of their mouth. so i guess the solution is to wp instantly and then AFK, ignore downed state skills as well as ignoring whether or not anyone can raise you, because your busy spamming the waypoint with your map up, all so that you don’t miss any loot.

Streamlining this to make this not be the solution (which currently it is the solution) is apparently in no ones best interest, apparently

No one is arguing for stream lined anything on this side. You need to address some delusions that anything we have said validates your point. There’s no solution we are looking for, because no one can see a problem.

MoarChaos.8320:

No one is arguing for stream lined anything on this side. You need to address some delusions that anything we have said validates your point. There’s no solution we are looking for, because no one can see a problem.

Yah sure no prob I’ll continue to spam wp with my map up while ignoring downed state skills or have any screen awareness of an impending raise or even try to rally. because I’m spamming the WP with my map up.

What you decide to do doesn’t equate to what everyone else does, and doesn’t help your argument to invite dead bodies to participate in the game.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

MoarChaos.8320:

No one is arguing for stream lined anything on this side. You need to address some delusions that anything we have said validates your point. There’s no solution we are looking for, because no one can see a problem.

Yah sure no prob I’ll continue to spam wp with my map up while ignoring downed state skills or have any screen awareness of an impending raise or even try to rally. because I’m spamming the WP with my map up.

Nobody is telling you to ignore down state skills lol. Being down doesn’t mean you’re dead. It’s only when you COMPLETELY die that you’re supposed to WP. Fight till the bitter end. Then WP so you don’t become a liability to the people around you. It’s that simple.

Gaile makes some really good points in this thread. The biggest issue with no loot on death is if you die in very hard to reach places before you can return to your corpse to get loot. This will happen to you if you die in an enemy tower in WvW and don’t release ASAP; if some members of your server at still alive killing other players that you get loot for, a bunch of bags will pile up around your corpse, and unless your commander goes back to that same tower and opens it up so you can run in and grab your loot, it’s gone.

However, if in the above example you instead waypoint to spawn and allies kill other players you damaged, you get ALL the same loot that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. That is the problem with the current no loot on death system. It’s not always about being dead and not participating, it’s about loot sitting in impossible to reach locations. If there was a faster way to waypoint without opening up the map or dragging the minimap, that would reduce the time spent dead where you’d accumulate unobtainable loot.

I imagine that the reason autoloot doesnt work when we are dead is not because of some grand idea of punishing failure, but because the system was being programmed on a time budget and time ran out.

Similarly, I imagine that the reason it hasnt been changed is time budgeting. As good a reason as any IMO. To get this changed something else would be delayed.

See I assume it doesn’t work because pressing F in the down state didn’t work. They are simply automating what pressing the F does.

Chadom.9216:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

MoarChaos.8320:

No one is arguing for stream lined anything on this side. You need to address some delusions that anything we have said validates your point. There’s no solution we are looking for, because no one can see a problem.

Yah sure no prob I’ll continue to spam wp with my map up while ignoring downed state skills or have any screen awareness of an impending raise or even try to rally. because I’m spamming the WP with my map up.

Nobody is telling you to ignore down state skills lol. Being down doesn’t mean you’re dead. It’s only when you COMPLETELY die that you’re supposed to WP. Fight till the bitter end. Then WP so you don’t become a liability to the people around you. It’s that simple.

The only problem with that is if I wait and used down state skills and then die the loot will fall on the ground before I pull the map up and waypoint. The only way to for sure have no loot fall on the ground is by waypointing the second I die, which means my map has to be up and spamming the waypoint before I die, which means no awareness of surroundings and no downed state skills.

This is the reason I made this thread is to stop this annoying behavior because it is the best practice to get all loot.

This happens frequently in wvw zvz especially as a squishy backline dps. What happens is you hit a ton of guys, get pulled or over extend, then you die, then your zerg kills most of the guys you tagged but then the fight pivots away from where you died and you get no raise and all those bags appear at your corpse. The bags can come in fast like 10 bags in the matter of 1-2 seconds of dying, and if u are not spamming the waypoint before you die, you miss out on a ton of loot.

So best thing to do is spam way point to not lose any loot and then you have no surrounding awareness and no Downed state skills because your map is pulled up.

It can be even more inconvenient in raiding. If you are defeated, raid chests don’t quick-loot and I’ve seen numerous people miss their chest because they (without thinking) immediately character swap for the next raid or boss for their group. If they don’t realize their mistake in time, the raid loot for that boss will be gone for the week for them.

Consequence of dying. Works perfectly fine. No change needed.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Why does auto loot – world ability, fail to work once you are dead? You end up seeing 5-10 bags around your corpse and you cant collect them unless you are raised by someone else or immediately respawn and then the bags will again automatically go into your inventory but the ones on the ground that appear when you are dead before you can respawn stay.

Plz fix it so it goes into your inventory no matter what.

I’m more concerned with the quality of the loot. That said, sounds like a solo penalty, taking on mobs solo resulting in quicker loot aquisition. The game prefers us in groups to carry the weaker players. Or it’s to combat bots.

Throwing bags at dead people forcing them to insta wp to receive the drops far away or run back to get them is an ugly, inconsistent design.

Dead players should either:

- Truly receive ALL the rewards they earned while fighting, no matter their status.
- Not receive ANY reward from foes dead while they weren’t fighting.

The point for me is the consistency. Reward or not, but please stop the Shroedinger with “you get the bag, but you can’t take it”.

Gaile Gray.6029:

From days of long ago — well, in a gaming sense, anyway — I came to expect a death penalty. I came to respect it. I treked across Dereth to retrieve my best item, when the #^$%^@)$ Lugians took it off my corpse and tossed it aside. I braved Diablo in the catacombs below Tristram to get back all the stuff that spilled out around me when that beastie bested me. To have essentially nothing bad happen — to get all the goods around me whether I live or die — just doesn’t make sense to me.

Maybe I RP it in my head. Kill monsters + live to tell about it = get rewards afterwards. Maybe I don’t see it as aggregate acquisitions while I’m fighting, but an end-combat reward, picking over the battleground after my victory? I don’t know, but it makes sense to me that I would potentially get less when I fail!

None of this talk about “Death mattering” makes any sense considering that you can just Waypoint right away and you’ll auto-loot everything that you tagged anyway while removing any chance that you could be rezzed and continue contributing. (Depending on waypoint distance and whatnot)

It’s just an inconsistent mechanic. Maybe it’s that way for technical reasons, maybe because of an oversight, but ultimately there’s no defending it as it currently behaves.

Jayne.9251:

You can’t wear glass in WvW unless you really know how to predict zerg movement. Otherwise you’re about equal to a little brother tagging along asking “where we goin’ next? Huh? Huh?” tug, tug.

Get some alternative gear for WvW and you’ll notice a huge difference. Exotics are fine.

Even in full PVT gear, you’ll die instantly in a lot of situations nowadays. Even 1v1 sometimes. ><

Damage potential in WvW is just insane now. It’s like playing a FPS game sometimes.

I notice many players in game have not grasped the concept of “Run and Gun”. They stand in one place and wipe far too often. You cannot stand still. If you keep moving, your chances of success increase, and you DON’T DIE!!! Then entire point of the OP’s post is mute. “Stick and move Stallion, stick and move” Apollo Creed.

Of course the pont of the OP is mute if you don’t die. But the point IS about what happen when you die. Or you think the solution is to ask anet to make gw2 characters immortal in WWW? (It would be really stupid, but it WOULD solve the problem… )