Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes that is true. Was there a point that you were trying to argue? If you were trying to argue against Wanze with it, could you please provide evidence that isn’t conjecture or circumstantial? I’m curious about how you think Anet is manipulating the market for black lion chests.

If you can’t see something as simple as how they could do something like that, I’m not going to bother explaining anything else.

Neural.1824:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes that is true. Was there a point that you were trying to argue? If you were trying to argue against Wanze with it, could you please provide evidence that isn’t conjecture or circumstantial? I’m curious about how you think Anet is manipulating the market for black lion chests.

If you can’t see something as simple as how they could do something like that, I’m not going to bother explaining anything else.

I bolded part of my post above. I know full well how they could do something like that. Just because they have the means does not mean that they’re the cause (i.e. they manipulated the market).

You are demanding something you know is impossible to obtain. Nice try.

First off, if you read my comments fully, I included other recent anomalies in my argument as well. Not just the BLC’s.

No-one outside of people who work for Arenanet can provide evidence of anything in regards to what is going on. It is all speculation. I am merely stating that it is financially advantageous for Arenanet to make such moves. High volume items that carry a 15% transaction tax add up quickly in the gold sink.
There is no reason for them not to manipulate certain items which have floundered for a long period of time.

It’s not even worth discussing whether ANet’s involved directly in any markets. There are dozens of easier ways for them to adjust scarcity and demand that serve the game and its community better.

The original post is asking about what’s going on with BL chest. There, too, there are several more plausible explanations that don’t include manipulation.

Unless folks have additional evidence that we aren’t seeing, I’d have to say there’s not even enough data to warrant further investigation. (Not that those claiming manipulation seem prepared to trust ANet’s word about whatever they might find.)

Neural.1824:

You are demanding something you know is impossible to obtain. Nice try.

First off, if you read my comments fully, I included other recent anomalies in my argument as well. Not just the BLC’s.

No-one outside of people who work for Arenanet can provide evidence of anything in regards to what is going on. It is all speculation. I am merely stating that it is financially advantageous for Arenanet to make such moves. High volume items that carry a 15% transaction tax add up quickly in the gold sink.
There is no reason for them not to manipulate certain items which have floundered for a long period of time.

Then don’t act like that they are doing that. If you can’t prove it, don’t treat it as a fact.

Yeah, I saw your other post. You brought up someone with insider information when it likely someone just manipulating the market. It’s been stated that Anet prefers to not interfere with the market. The only times that they have is by adding/removing items, changing recipes, and affecting drop rates to name a few. They have not gone in and simply removed items from the TP to artificially raise the prices.

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

Ayrilana.1396:

Neural.1824:

You are demanding something you know is impossible to obtain. Nice try.

First off, if you read my comments fully, I included other recent anomalies in my argument as well. Not just the BLC’s.

No-one outside of people who work for Arenanet can provide evidence of anything in regards to what is going on. It is all speculation. I am merely stating that it is financially advantageous for Arenanet to make such moves. High volume items that carry a 15% transaction tax add up quickly in the gold sink.
There is no reason for them not to manipulate certain items which have floundered for a long period of time.

Then don’t act like that they are doing that. If you can’t prove it, don’t treat it as a fact.

He is just hypothesizing. Everyone hypothesize on things. Nothing wrong with it. I think it’s just a bit more serious because it is kind of accusation.

My hypothesis is some GW2 trading website is promoting flippers to flip black lion chest.

@Neural I honestly doubt black lion chest is a high volume item. If you think those 1 silver chest will have a dent on gold sink with tax. Just imagine what the content inside the black lion chest can sell for.

All those black lion skins, minis, nodes, dyes probably have much more effect on gold sink.

laokoko.7403:

He is just hypothesizing. Everyone hypothesize on things. Nothing wrong with it. I think it’s just a bit more serious because it is kind of accusation.

My hypothesis is some GW2 trading website is promoting flippers to flip black lion chest.

That’s how I took his first post but his other came off differently, at least to me, with how it was presented and worded. It looked like he was trying to counter one hypothesis with another rather than state there could be more than one possibility.

Anyway, it’s not really worth delving much further into it.

Neural.1824:

I am merely stating that it is financially advantageous for Arenanet to make such moves. High volume items that carry a 15% transaction tax add up quickly in the gold sink.

Arena.net has no financial incentive to make such moves. Their interest is in making sure that markets can withstand supply / demand shocks and are driven to some equilibrium in the medium to long run. Fiddling with individual markets, driving them away from their equilibrium in the short term, isn’t interesting to them at all.

Any ‘gold sink’ from such a spike is, like the spike itself, only short run – high velocity money dips, prices dip with them, the sink slows down, until in the medium term it all flattens out like it never happened.

This is all pretty textbook microeconomics. Unless something has fundamentally changed in the supply or demand functions, any manipulation is going to get washed out in the medium term.

Neural.1824:

Wanze.8410:

cranked.3812:

Wanze.8410:

Neural.1824:

Victuswolf.5286:

Is there anything stopping Anet from buying items on the BMT to artificially make the item more rare and expensive?

Not sure about BLC’s, but there are plenty of other areas where it would benefit their bank account to do such things. There is no law against it, and they’ve never told the user base they wouldn’t do it, so.. yeah.

I am pretty sure that JS stated that Anet, as a company, doesnt participate in the trading market.

Well, I guess if John said so, it must be true, because no employee of a company has ever lied on the forums.

(Not saying he is lying, but his statement does not necessarily make it true)

As I mentioned, maybe you should produce a proper reason, why Anet should do it in the first place before considering that they actually do it.

You are being deliberately obtuse. You know very well that the trading post is a massive gold sink and higher price equal greater gold sink effectiveness through taxation.

So let me get this straight:
You are saying that Anet opens up a playing account, transfers over 100k gold into it that didnt exist before in the economy and then redistributes that gold to all those players that had those 2.5 million chests listed on the tp?

And they do that in order to have a better gold sink?

Sounds like a valid reason indeed.

Of course this must be the reason and of course Elvis is not dead

Neural.1824:

There’s a number of oddities on the market right now (BLC, Quartz Crystals, etc.)

Makes me wonder who has access to inside info, or who is taking advantage of knowledge learned from the Beta of HoT.

Just to get back on topic:

Speculative investment doesnt neccesarily mean that inside info is leaked.
As a trader, I always try to speculate on future supply/demand of certain items.

The announcement of HoT made me rethink alot of my long term strategies for certain markets.

Personally I expect that they will reintroduce supply for alot of currently unavailable items. So i started to selling those off. Of some unobtainable recipes, i have a stock 5-10 times higher than the current supply on the tp, so it will take a while.
Until now, i wasnt a big friend of hoarding lots of gold, I rather invested in something. But with HoT looming, I started hoarding gold and making space in my guild vaults (i spent over 1000g just in listing fees over the last couple of days).

I expect alot of markets going topsy-turvy with HoT and alot of other investors buying up stock in different markets in the time leading up to it. For that, i rather have my supply on the tp to make sure it gets sold, if someone buys it out. And i prefer to have lots of space and gold to do some short term investments.

Since the end of wintersday, trading became rather dull due to the lack of new content introduced. It seems almost certain that labyrinthe cliffs and the cephyrite traders wont make their annual spring appearance, so celestial recipes and quartz are still likely to go up for a little time longer than i expected.

TL/DR: If you have lots of gold, you dont need neccessarily need inside info to invest alot of gold. You often spend it on a hunch.

Wanze.8410:

TL/DR: If you have lots of gold, you dont need neccessarily need inside info to invest alot of gold. You often spend it on a hunch.

This.

Speculation =/= Manipulation.

This doesn’t mean that there is no manipulation.

eithinan.9841:

Wanze.8410:

TL/DR: If you have lots of gold, you dont need neccessarily need inside info to invest alot of gold. You often spend it on a hunch.

This doesn’t mean that there is no manipulation.

If by manipulation you mean buying up items that other people listed for sale, like intended, then yes.

I think it’s fair to say that this case is most likely not speculation. Speculation is buying items with the hope that things change due to an “outside” factor/s. Manipulation is the intention to influence change via deliberate action/s.

Essence Snow.3194:

I think it’s fair to say that this case is most likely not speculation. Speculation is buying items with the hope that things change due to an “outside” factor/s. Manipulation is the intention to influence change via deliberate action/s.

I speculated over a year ago when I bought a few stacks because I reasoned “well, they can’t go any LOWER so at worst I will lose 15% of a very minor investment”.

This wasn’t a few stacks…..this was 2 rounds totaling over 17k stacks. If anyone would like to try and explain how buying over 17k stacks (in less than 4 days to boot) of an item such as blc is speculation, I’m all ears.

I already explained what that was above. It’s a relatively risk free profit opportunity that required a massive amount of capital to pull off.

Kudos to whoever managed to do it, mostly because my speculation paid off!

Essence Snow.3194:

I think it’s fair to say that this case is most likely not speculation. Speculation is buying items with the hope that things change due to an “outside” factor/s. Manipulation is the intention to influence change via deliberate action/s.

And what if someone speculates on someone elses manipulation?

Wanze.8410:

Neural.1824:

Victuswolf.5286:

Is there anything stopping Anet from buying items on the BMT to artificially make the item more rare and expensive?

Not sure about BLC’s, but there are plenty of other areas where it would benefit their bank account to do such things. There is no law against it, and they’ve never told the user base they wouldn’t do it, so.. yeah.

I am pretty sure that JS stated that Anet, as a company, doesnt participate in the trading market.

I was wondering about this in the past as well and wasn’t certain if anyone saw any statements that they do not adjust markets by removing items from in game. In this case the reason ANet might consider this on BLTC chest is that its a marketable item that could require real money to further purchase.

You are a new player. Quite often on the gem store you see these keys that can be bought. In this case 25 keys for something like $26.25 in real money. You then look and see the item that they open is only 7c. That might make you question, ok is there $1.05 value in that chest, which based on price might lead you away. Now its true that people could use the Wiki to see what they might get, but I am beating a large number of people use that buying price as a quick indication of, does it have value. Therefore, yes a low price on the chests might be seen as potential finical lose that might lead to an action such as remove some of the supply in game.

Not implying ANet was involved, but I could see why they might be which is why I was wondering if there was ever any statements that they never would. Based on your feedback I am leaning towards they have and will leave it at that since I know you have had way more posts on the trading forums then I.

Side note from those of us that do gamble. Another reason a player might have bought a bunch up is that we are overdue for a key sale. Based on experience in game with others, this does open up people wallets to pick up keys at those times. If that occurs then this price jump might be even better for the individual.

Good hunting flipping to you!

mtpelion.4562:

I already explained what that was above. It’s a relatively risk free profit opportunity that required a massive amount of capital to pull off.

Kudos to whoever managed to do it, mostly because my speculation paid off!

I doubt that who ever bought those chests was successful in unloading enough of them to make a profit.

Wanze.8410:

mtpelion.4562:

I already explained what that was above. It’s a relatively risk free profit opportunity that required a massive amount of capital to pull off.

Kudos to whoever managed to do it, mostly because my speculation paid off!

I doubt that who ever bought those chests was successful in unloading enough of them to make a profit.

Not yet anyway. But they should eventually make one if the price stays where it is.
I listed a stack of mine last night at 2s each to see how well they are selling.

Victuswolf.5286:

Is there anything stopping Anet from buying items on the BMT to artificially make the item more rare and expensive?

Since they don’t sell them on the gem shop, I’m not sure what motive they would have to do so (to sell more keys they would really want them nearly FREE, IMO), but Anyone that thinks they couldn’t pull stuff off and on behind the scenes is naive….it’s their numbers to manipulate and it’s not like there are any rules or regulations on imaginary stock markets….The REAL reason that nothing in the game has any actual monetary value.

I am in no way implying that Anet would do this, but it HAS to be technically possible for them to do just about anything with the BLTP or it’s numbers (tho the ability to records past numbers would make any hanky panky obvious to anyone that was keeping an eye on it). Per the question, certainly they could do legit trades to manipulate something and nobody would be able to tell who was behind it.

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

What do you consider “normal”?

Essence Snow.3194:

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

What do you consider “normal”?

I consider “normal” to be around 1s 5c buy listing (give or take a few copper). Which is about the same price as it’s been for about a year. Of course there have been some minor flucuations, but over all the price has remain fairly steady. At least until recently.

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

Why would the person responsible for this be interested in bringing the price back down again?

Just some food for thought….

pdavis.8031:

Essence Snow.3194:

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

What do you consider “normal”?

I consider “normal” to be around 1s 5c buy listing (give or take a few copper). Which is about the same price as it’s been for about a year. Of course there have been some minor flucuations, but over all the price has remain fairly steady. At least until recently.

I would say the average price was closer to 50c than 1s during the past year. In fact, it only rose over 1s once for a couple of weeks during wintersday.

Wanze.8410:

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

Why would the person responsible for this be interested in bringing the price back down again?

Just some food for thought….

If I understood it right. They bought up a bunch to raise the price, then unloaded it all when it was high, which brought the price back down. Of course it would have been smarter for them to trickle it back in, and keep the prices high, but with such a rapid decline it doesn’t seem like they did that.

Also, I am going by the assumption of what I was told by my guildies. That someone bought up a bunch of supply to raise the price and then dumped it all back in. Again, I don’t know if its true or not, but based on that information, and seeing what has been happening to the chests over the past few days, it makses sense.

pdavis.8031:

Essence Snow.3194:

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

What do you consider “normal”?

I consider “normal” to be around 1s 5c buy listing (give or take a few copper). Which is about the same price as it’s been for about a year. Of course there have been some minor flucuations, but over all the price has remain fairly steady. At least until recently.

The 1st buyout occurred around 7 months ago in August. Prior to that buyout they were <10c for well over a year. The buy orders had never gone above 85 copper until this recent chest buyout.

pdavis.8031:

Wanze.8410:

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

Why would the person responsible for this be interested in bringing the price back down again?

Just some food for thought….

If I understood it right. They bought up a bunch to raise the price, then unloaded it all when it was high, which brought the price back down. Of course it would have been smarter for them to trickle it back in, and keep the prices high, but with such a rapid decline it doesn’t seem like they did that.

I think you might be underestimating the amount bought and then overestimating the amount relisted. Whoever bought them hasn’t come remotely close to relisting all that they bought.

Essence Snow.3194:

pdavis.8031:

Wanze.8410:

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

Why would the person responsible for this be interested in bringing the price back down again?

Just some food for thought….

If I understood it right. They bought up a bunch to raise the price, then unloaded it all when it was high, which brought the price back down. Of course it would have been smarter for them to trickle it back in, and keep the prices high, but with such a rapid decline it doesn’t seem like they did that.

I think you might be underestimating the amount bought and then overestimating the amount relisted. Whoever bought them hasn’t come remotely close to relisting all that they bought.

I agree. The highest amount of buy orders between 1 and 2 silver was 25k, not nearly enough to make any kind of profit. of the 1.3m current buy orders, 1 million are located at 1c, which means they cant be filled (2c minimum price on tp), another 137k at 2c.

Essence Snow.3194:

pdavis.8031:

Wanze.8410:

pdavis.8031:

Ayrilana.1396:

Anyway, it looks like the chests have come down from where they were about 24 hours ago. Supply does seem to be steadily increasing so I wonder where the new price range will stabilize.

pdavis.8031:

Some guildies of mine were talking about this in game, about how the price was going up. Someone else interjected that it’s only going to be for 5 more days and that they knew the person who was responsible.
So if they are to be believed, in the next couple of days you should start seeing the price go back down to normal.

Just some food for thought….

Nailed it!

Why would the person responsible for this be interested in bringing the price back down again?

Just some food for thought….

If I understood it right. They bought up a bunch to raise the price, then unloaded it all when it was high, which brought the price back down. Of course it would have been smarter for them to trickle it back in, and keep the prices high, but with such a rapid decline it doesn’t seem like they did that.

I think you might be underestimating the amount bought and then overestimating the amount relisted. Whoever bought them hasn’t come remotely close to relisting all that they bought.

That may be true, but again I’m operating on limited information, which may or may not be accurate. In all honesety though, although it appears that someone, or a group of someones, is responsible for doing this, we really don’t know who. It could very well be just a bunch of new accounts (from the sale) that bought up a bunch of them, and bought a bunch of keys thinking that this was a type of P2W system and thinking they would at least have a chance at getting some ultra OP armor or something. I do totally discount Anets involvement in this though.

It occurred to me there is a problem with saying its an alt account being used so they can store excess chests in the TP. The 500 gold a week transfer limit.

Part of it is the 100k gold estimate (stated by Wanze) for this. How likely is it that an alt account would have this ahead of time? Do people buy alt accounts for trading and keep such large sums in it? I don’t know how big money people operate but if it were me, I would have yanked that gold out of my alt account the moment I heard they were going to limit gold transfers. The other is, if they did leave the gold in the alt account, how are they expecting to get the gold back at 500 gold a week? That seems to be extremely limiting and ties up their gold for long periods of time (200 weeks just to get 100k sent to the main account). It just seems kind of strange to me that someone would pour such amounts of gold in an alt account where they now can no longer take full advantage and use of it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It occurred to me there is a problem with saying its an alt account being used so they can store excess chests in the TP. The 500 gold a week transfer limit.

Part of it is the 100k gold estimate (stated by Wanze) for this. How likely is it that an alt account would have this ahead of time? Do people buy alt accounts for trading and keep such large sums in it? I don’t know how big money people operate but if it were me, I would have yanked that gold out of my alt account the moment I heard they were going to limit gold transfers. The other is, if they did leave the gold in the alt account, how are they expecting to get the gold back at 500 gold a week. That seems to be extremely limiting and ties up their gold for long periods of time (200 weeks just to get 100k sent to the main account). It just seems kind of strange to me that someone would pour such amounts of gold in an alt account where they now can no longer take full advantage and use of it.

They could just use the gold on the alt account, which would eliminate the need to transfer it around.

mtpelion.4562:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It occurred to me there is a problem with saying its an alt account being used so they can store excess chests in the TP. The 500 gold a week transfer limit.

Part of it is the 100k gold estimate (stated by Wanze) for this. How likely is it that an alt account would have this ahead of time? Do people buy alt accounts for trading and keep such large sums in it? I don’t know how big money people operate but if it were me, I would have yanked that gold out of my alt account the moment I heard they were going to limit gold transfers. The other is, if they did leave the gold in the alt account, how are they expecting to get the gold back at 500 gold a week. That seems to be extremely limiting and ties up their gold for long periods of time (200 weeks just to get 100k sent to the main account). It just seems kind of strange to me that someone would pour such amounts of gold in an alt account where they now can no longer take full advantage and use of it.

They could just use the gold on the alt account, which would eliminate the need to transfer it around.

What’s the point though of having all that gold on an alt account where your main can’t access it? It seems to me a very strange and ultimately futile way of gaining and holding gold, to pile it up in a way that it’s out of use for your main account.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

mtpelion.4562:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It occurred to me there is a problem with saying its an alt account being used so they can store excess chests in the TP. The 500 gold a week transfer limit.

Part of it is the 100k gold estimate (stated by Wanze) for this. How likely is it that an alt account would have this ahead of time? Do people buy alt accounts for trading and keep such large sums in it? I don’t know how big money people operate but if it were me, I would have yanked that gold out of my alt account the moment I heard they were going to limit gold transfers. The other is, if they did leave the gold in the alt account, how are they expecting to get the gold back at 500 gold a week. That seems to be extremely limiting and ties up their gold for long periods of time (200 weeks just to get 100k sent to the main account). It just seems kind of strange to me that someone would pour such amounts of gold in an alt account where they now can no longer take full advantage and use of it.

They could just use the gold on the alt account, which would eliminate the need to transfer it around.

What’s the point though of having all that gold on an alt account where your main can’t access it? It seems to me a very strange and ultimately futile way of gaining and holding gold, to pile it up in a way that it’s out of use for your main account.

It isn’t a “point” as much as it is a “workaround” to the mail limit. The person doing this obviously has hundreds of thousands of gold, so having it split among multiple accounts probably isn’t going to be a hassle.

mtpelion.4562:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

mtpelion.4562:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It occurred to me there is a problem with saying its an alt account being used so they can store excess chests in the TP. The 500 gold a week transfer limit.

Part of it is the 100k gold estimate (stated by Wanze) for this. How likely is it that an alt account would have this ahead of time? Do people buy alt accounts for trading and keep such large sums in it? I don’t know how big money people operate but if it were me, I would have yanked that gold out of my alt account the moment I heard they were going to limit gold transfers. The other is, if they did leave the gold in the alt account, how are they expecting to get the gold back at 500 gold a week. That seems to be extremely limiting and ties up their gold for long periods of time (200 weeks just to get 100k sent to the main account). It just seems kind of strange to me that someone would pour such amounts of gold in an alt account where they now can no longer take full advantage and use of it.

They could just use the gold on the alt account, which would eliminate the need to transfer it around.

What’s the point though of having all that gold on an alt account where your main can’t access it? It seems to me a very strange and ultimately futile way of gaining and holding gold, to pile it up in a way that it’s out of use for your main account.

It isn’t a “point” as much as it is a “workaround” to the mail limit. The person doing this obviously has hundreds of thousands of gold, so having it split among multiple accounts probably isn’t going to be a hassle.

But when he tries to get his gold back, the main account is still hit with the 500 gold a week limit, meaning all that gold is still stuck on alt account(s) and inaccessible.

As a real world comparison, it would be like putting your money in a interest gaining bonds and then deliberately setting it up so you can’t get the interest that’s being accrued or sell the bonds and get your money back, except for tiny amounts a week. Someone could do that, but why would they. What is the value of it for someone to do that in this game?

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

I think it’s fair to say that this case is most likely not speculation. Speculation is buying items with the hope that things change due to an “outside” factor/s. Manipulation is the intention to influence change via deliberate action/s.

And what if someone speculates on someone elses manipulation?

You mean exactly how I play the TP?

Wanze.8410:

mtpelion.4562:

I already explained what that was above. It’s a relatively risk free profit opportunity that required a massive amount of capital to pull off.

Kudos to whoever managed to do it, mostly because my speculation paid off!

I doubt that who ever bought those chests was successful in unloading enough of them to make a profit.

yet

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What’s the point though of having all that gold on an alt account where your main can’t access it? It seems to me a very strange and ultimately futile way of gaining and holding gold, to pile it up in a way that it’s out of use for your main account.

If its an account meant to be a primary trading account I personally would have most of my wealth stashed on it to prevent myself from impulse buys and always have plenty of cash on hand. This whole 500 gold limit wouldn’t be that big an issue for me.

eithinan.9841:

Wanze.8410:

Essence Snow.3194:

I think it’s fair to say that this case is most likely not speculation. Speculation is buying items with the hope that things change due to an “outside” factor/s. Manipulation is the intention to influence change via deliberate action/s.

And what if someone speculates on someone elses manipulation?

You mean exactly how I play the TP?

Wanze.8410:

mtpelion.4562:

I already explained what that was above. It’s a relatively risk free profit opportunity that required a massive amount of capital to pull off.

Kudos to whoever managed to do it, mostly because my speculation paid off!

I doubt that who ever bought those chests was successful in unloading enough of them to make a profit.

yet

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What’s the point though of having all that gold on an alt account where your main can’t access it? It seems to me a very strange and ultimately futile way of gaining and holding gold, to pile it up in a way that it’s out of use for your main account.

If its an account meant to be a primary trading account I personally would have most of my wealth stashed on it to prevent myself from impulse buys and always have plenty of cash on hand. This whole 500 gold limit wouldn’t be that big an issue for me.

To make gold in such a fashion that making it is of no real use and value to you? Who operates in such a fashion? Who would deliberately put large amounts of their gold in a place they will never be able to conveniently reach?

Someone could do it, I’m sure. But it’s such a hollow way of earning gold. Seeing it pile up higher and higher, and out of reach.

Such a person should name that account, Scrooge McDuck. Lol.

Not everyone keeps their gold on a single account if they’re doing trading with their alts. There’s very little need to have large sums of gold on a single accoubt unless you need to do something in particular that requires that much. Even then, it’s easy to anticipate and plan for.

Ayrilana.1396:

Not everyone keeps their gold on a single account if they’re doing trading with their alts. There’s very little need to have large sums of gold on a single accoubt unless you need to do something in particular that requires that much. Even then, it’s easy to anticipate and plan for.

Yes, but I was talking about this specific circumstance where the alt account needs about 100k gold to do this and the problems with tying up that amount of gold for years.

I thought it’s like 2 million box in between 50 copper to 1 gold. That’s about 20k gold? And not all chest is bought by the 1 or group of people. There might be other people seeing a sudden decline on supply and chip in too.

If people have that much money, they probably dont’ care that much about using them. And the joy to them is making but not using money. It’s like saying why billionaires work. And apparently some work really hard.

The person is also most likely selling the items at his main account. Since he wont’ be able to pick up the gold if he sell it using the account he stock up the item.

I can see the joy in making gold. My problem is if the method is one that means the gold earned is essentially forever out of reach. It seems to me a pointless way of doing it.

/shrug. But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior. People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I can see the joy in making gold. My problem is if the method is one that means the gold is essentially forever out of reach. It seems to me a pointless way of doing it.

he most likely is moving the items to his main account and sell it there. Since he won’t be able to pick it up if he use the account assuming he use the TP as inventory.

laokoko.7403:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I can see the joy in making gold. My problem is if the method is one that means the gold is essentially forever out of reach. It seems to me a pointless way of doing it.

he most likely is moving the items to his main account and sell it there. Since he won’t be able to pick it up if he use the account assuming he use the TP as inventory.

Possibly. I though of that. It did occur to me that this was an alt account with large sums of gold in it that didn’t see the 500 gold/week limit until too late but I discounted it as being too cumbersome. It’s about 10,000 stacks of BLC. That’s a lot of chests to be putting in a banking guild then pull out with the main account and then post and sell, even if they do it a 250 stacks at a time. Risky, too, if people pull chests out of storage to sell and bring the prices down. If they want to transfer the gold, why not buy fewer higher priced items to sell and transfer instead of thousands and thousands of stacks of items?

My original question was aimed at finding out if Anet has a policy stating that they don’t touch the Black Lion Market or buy/remove items from it.

Has a developer ever commented on it?

There would be certain financial advantages for Anet if they did buy up items on the BLM while reducing the drop rate and giving other options for obtaining items of a similar value in the gem store.

I would assume it’s Anets and the GM’s policy not to touch the BLM as obviously a significant amount of players would see it as wrong.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior.

WOW. You literally described me, and my RL finances. Only thing you don’t account for is it is pretty much impossible to lock your own wealth in its entirety away from yourself. One can put restrictions on the access to that money but if I wanted it there is nothing that can prevent me from cashing out, however unwise that decision would be.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.

Money that is “tied up” and “inaccessible” is kinda how building a retirement fund works like a 401k or IRA and any tax penelties involved. I would argue most people who are wealthy have various investments outside of retirement that withdrawing it would be a financial setback because it didn’t mature fully.

eithinan.9841:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior.

WOW. You literally described me, and my RL finances. Only thing you don’t account for is it is pretty much impossible to lock your own wealth in its entirety away from yourself. One can put restrictions on the access to that money but if I wanted it there is nothing that can prevent me from cashing out, however unwise that decision would be.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.

Money that is “tied up” and “inaccessible” is kinda how building a retirement fund works like a 401k or IRA and any tax penelties involved. I would argue most people who are wealthy have various investments outside of retirement that withdrawing it would be a financial setback because it didn’t mature fully.

This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone). Not a situation where people have money in a retirement account that may take a few days to transfer over.

I agree that wealthy people in real life have money that is difficult to access immediately or would cost to access quickly, but do they have money that is impossible to access except for a small (relatively speaking) amount each week? Do they have money that would take years to access, or access very clumsily by physically transferring 10,000 stacks of an item? (The 100k in an alt account in the black lion chest buyout scenario). Are you telling me your finances are locked up so tightly that you can not reach them except by the above method of buying 2 million extremely cheap items, picking them up and reselling them? Why would you do that? It’s very puzzling to me that someone would paint themselves in such a financial corner, unless they don’t trust their own judgment.

If your finances are not something that you deliberately locked out of your reach for years, except a small amount a week or by the above workaround then they have nothing to do which what I was talking about.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

eithinan.9841:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior.

WOW. You literally described me, and my RL finances. Only thing you don’t account for is it is pretty much impossible to lock your own wealth in its entirety away from yourself. One can put restrictions on the access to that money but if I wanted it there is nothing that can prevent me from cashing out, however unwise that decision would be.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.

Money that is “tied up” and “inaccessible” is kinda how building a retirement fund works like a 401k or IRA and any tax penelties involved. I would argue most people who are wealthy have various investments outside of retirement that withdrawing it would be a financial setback because it didn’t mature fully.

This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone). Not a situation where people have money in a retirement account that may take a few days to transfer over.

I agree that wealthy people in real life have money that is difficult to access immediately or would cost to access quickly, but do they have money that is impossible to access except for a small (relatively speaking) amount each week? Do they have money that would take years to access, or access very clumsily by physically transferring 10,000 stacks of an item? (The 100k in an alt account in the black lion chest buyout scenario). Are you telling me your finances are locked up so tightly that you can not reach them except by the above method of buying 2 million extremely cheap items, picking them up and reselling them? Why would you do that? It’s very puzzling to me that someone would paint themselves in such a financial corner, unless they don’t trust their own judgment.

If your finances are not something that you deliberately locked out of your reach for years, except a small amount a week or by the above workaround then they have nothing to do which what I was talking about.

Why wouldn’t they just spend the money while logged in on the alt account?

mtpelion.4562:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

eithinan.9841:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior.

WOW. You literally described me, and my RL finances. Only thing you don’t account for is it is pretty much impossible to lock your own wealth in its entirety away from yourself. One can put restrictions on the access to that money but if I wanted it there is nothing that can prevent me from cashing out, however unwise that decision would be.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.

Money that is “tied up” and “inaccessible” is kinda how building a retirement fund works like a 401k or IRA and any tax penelties involved. I would argue most people who are wealthy have various investments outside of retirement that withdrawing it would be a financial setback because it didn’t mature fully.

This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone). Not a situation where people have money in a retirement account that may take a few days to transfer over.

I agree that wealthy people in real life have money that is difficult to access immediately or would cost to access quickly, but do they have money that is impossible to access except for a small (relatively speaking) amount each week? Do they have money that would take years to access, or access very clumsily by physically transferring 10,000 stacks of an item? (The 100k in an alt account in the black lion chest buyout scenario). Are you telling me your finances are locked up so tightly that you can not reach them except by the above method of buying 2 million extremely cheap items, picking them up and reselling them? Why would you do that? It’s very puzzling to me that someone would paint themselves in such a financial corner, unless they don’t trust their own judgment.

If your finances are not something that you deliberately locked out of your reach for years, except a small amount a week or by the above workaround then they have nothing to do which what I was talking about.

Why wouldn’t they just spend the money while logged in on the alt account?

I’m talking about this specific scenario where the gold was on an alt account where they bought 2 million or so black lion chests (as someone suggested they did above) and whether or not this is likely due to the 500 gold a week restrictions and the problems with transferring up to 10k stacks of chest to a main account to sell. It’s not about whether they do or do not spend the money afterwards. If they were going to do that, wouldn’t they have done that first instead of mucking around with the 2 million black lion chests. If they make a profit, there is still the problem of getting the gold to a main account. It doesn’t answer my question of whether the black lion chest on an alt account is likely. It only pushes it back one step. Why would they do that if it means their gold is inaccessible?