But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior.
WOW. You literally described me, and my RL finances. Only thing you don’t account for is it is pretty much impossible to lock your own wealth in its entirety away from yourself. One can put restrictions on the access to that money but if I wanted it there is nothing that can prevent me from cashing out, however unwise that decision would be.
People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.
Money that is “tied up” and “inaccessible” is kinda how building a retirement fund works like a 401k or IRA and any tax penelties involved. I would argue most people who are wealthy have various investments outside of retirement that withdrawing it would be a financial setback because it didn’t mature fully.
This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone). Not a situation where people have money in a retirement account that may take a few days to transfer over.
I agree that wealthy people in real life have money that is difficult to access immediately or would cost to access quickly, but do they have money that is impossible to access except for a small (relatively speaking) amount each week? Do they have money that would take years to access, or access very clumsily by physically transferring 10,000 stacks of an item? (The 100k in an alt account in the black lion chest buyout scenario). Are you telling me your finances are locked up so tightly that you can not reach them except by the above method of buying 2 million extremely cheap items, picking them up and reselling them? Why would you do that? It’s very puzzling to me that someone would paint themselves in such a financial corner, unless they don’t trust their own judgment.
If your finances are not something that you deliberately locked out of your reach for years, except a small amount a week or by the above workaround then they have nothing to do which what I was talking about.
Why wouldn’t they just spend the money while logged in on the alt account?
I’m talking about this specific scenario where the gold was on an alt account where they bought 2 million or so black lion chests (as someone suggested they did above) and whether or not this is likely due to the 500 gold a week restrictions and the problems with transferring up to 10k stacks of chest to a main account to sell. It’s not about whether they do or do not spend the money afterwards. If they were going to do that, wouldn’t they have done that first instead of mucking around with the 2 million black lion chests. If they make a profit, there is still the problem of getting the gold to a main account. It doesn’t answer my question of whether the black lion chest on an alt account is likely. It only pushes it back one step. Why would they do that if it means their gold is inaccessible?
Having your gold spread out across multiple accounts does not make it inaccessible. It simply means you have to pop over to the login screen to access it.
If it was me, I’d never even worry about merging the gold and would just buy and sell on both accounts.
I think the reason you’d use alt accounts is just to prevent the massive amount of inventory from clogging your main account’s TP and bank space. Having that much money means you aren’t going to care about which account it ends up on.
Besides, the main account could be the one that is selling all the chests and the alt accounts were just used to buy the chests out in the first place. There is no limit on sending black lion chests via the mail.
But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior.
WOW. You literally described me, and my RL finances. Only thing you don’t account for is it is pretty much impossible to lock your own wealth in its entirety away from yourself. One can put restrictions on the access to that money but if I wanted it there is nothing that can prevent me from cashing out, however unwise that decision would be.
People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.
Money that is “tied up” and “inaccessible” is kinda how building a retirement fund works like a 401k or IRA and any tax penelties involved. I would argue most people who are wealthy have various investments outside of retirement that withdrawing it would be a financial setback because it didn’t mature fully.
This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone). Not a situation where people have money in a retirement account that may take a few days to transfer over.
I agree that wealthy people in real life have money that is difficult to access immediately or would cost to access quickly, but do they have money that is impossible to access except for a small (relatively speaking) amount each week? Do they have money that would take years to access, or access very clumsily by physically transferring 10,000 stacks of an item? (The 100k in an alt account in the black lion chest buyout scenario). Are you telling me your finances are locked up so tightly that you can not reach them except by the above method of buying 2 million extremely cheap items, picking them up and reselling them? Why would you do that? It’s very puzzling to me that someone would paint themselves in such a financial corner, unless they don’t trust their own judgment.
If your finances are not something that you deliberately locked out of your reach for years, except a small amount a week or by the above workaround then they have nothing to do which what I was talking about.
Why wouldn’t they just spend the money while logged in on the alt account?
I’m talking about this specific scenario where the gold was on an alt account where they bought 2 million or so black lion chests (as someone suggested they did above) and whether or not this is likely due to the 500 gold a week restrictions and the problems with transferring up to 10k stacks of chest to a main account to sell. It’s not about whether they do or do not spend the money afterwards. If they were going to do that, wouldn’t they have done that first instead of mucking around with the 2 million black lion chests. If they make a profit, there is still the problem of getting the gold to a main account. It doesn’t answer my question of whether the black lion chest on an alt account is likely. It only pushes it back one step. Why would they do that if it means their gold is inaccessible?
Having your gold spread out across multiple accounts does not make it inaccessible. It simply means you have to pop over to the login screen to access it.
If it was me, I’d never even worry about merging the gold and would just buy and sell on both accounts.
I think the reason you’d use alt accounts is just to prevent the massive amount of inventory from clogging your main account’s TP and bank space. Having that much money means you aren’t going to care about which account it ends up on.
Besides, the main account could be the one that is selling all the chests and the alt accounts were just used to buy the chests out in the first place. There is no limit on sending black lion chests via the mail.
It’s a very clumsy work around imo, sending up to 10k stacks by mail. That’s 2000 emails. But if y’all think this a good way to do things, well. I guess it is. /shrug. If it were me I would have bought fewer, more expensive items if I was trying to transfer 100k gold off of an alt account.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
I think it’s fair to say that this case is most likely not speculation. Speculation is buying items with the hope that things change due to an “outside” factor/s. Manipulation is the intention to influence change via deliberate action/s.
No, it’s not fair to say that, based on the data we have. All we know for sure is that the supply dropped by a relatively enormous amount and price rose a noticeable amount. We don’t know if it was bought by one person or even one consortium. We don’t know if individual buyers intended to impact prices or if that was a side effect of their actions.
There are all sorts of potential mechanisms that would explain the limited information we can see; manipulation is only one of many.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
I think it’s fair to say that this case is most likely not speculation. Speculation is buying items with the hope that things change due to an “outside” factor/s. Manipulation is the intention to influence change via deliberate action/s.
No, it’s not fair to say that, based on the data we have. All we know for sure is that the supply dropped by a relatively enormous amount and price rose a noticeable amount. We don’t know if it was bought by one person or even one consortium. We don’t know if individual buyers intended to impact prices or if that was a side effect of their actions.
There are all sorts of potential mechanisms that would explain the limited information we can see; manipulation is only one of many.
Huh? The amount bought in the time frame bought, given no game changes were made, all scream it was done to increase the price due to drastic supply reduction. There is really no other logical reason for it to happen.
What else might explain it? I’m honestly curious to what your thoughts could be.
This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone).
Umm no. I was responding to your post making assumptions about how wealthy people handle their money. We dont BTW, that stuff is dirty, that’s what the little people are for, let them get their grubby hands dirtier.(joking)
But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior. People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.
I was responding to the bold text in particular. This whole paragraph you wrote is about real life money management, not gold in game.
This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone).
Umm no. I was responding to your post making assumptions about how wealthy people handle their money. We dont BTW, that stuff is dirty, that’s what the little people are for, let them get their grubby hands dirtier.(joking)
But maybe there are wealthy people out there who live in poor conditions because they deliberately lock all their income away from personal use, except a minimum amount and they carry this behavior over to the game. It’s just that this isn’t usual behavior. People who make money are normally aware that money isn’t just to be tied up and inaccessible but for use when needed.
I was responding to the bold text in particular. This whole paragraph you wrote is about real life money management, not gold in game.
What I was discussing in my series of posts was about a situation where money was deliberately locked up and inaccessible for 3 years, because you can only get a small amount per week out, or only accessed by buying 2 million cheap items and sending them to yourself and selling them. That particular post assumed someone had read what I had said previously and was following my argument and my question. Unless your post addresses these particular behaviors of money management, it’s not relevant to what I was trying to ask.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone). Not a situation where people have money in a retirement account that may take a few days to transfer over.
Most likely those people transfer their gold before Anet made the change.
And I think people are under the assumption it actually cause him/her a lot of gold. It’s only 2 million chest. Even if they bought every at 1 silver each, it only cost 20,000 gold. And it’s more like 15,000 gold since it start at 50 copper.
And your assumption is this is done by 1 person which may or may not be true. Not to mention they might use some automation tool so it’s not as tedious as you think(which is illegal).
And if for some miracle the account cleared all the black lion chest. He can actually use that account to buy things and move it to his main account.
And you say something like “why dont’ people just buy x item”. No one can perdict the future. If they can, everyone will be very rich. I’d like to know what item to buy now which have quick return and high profit. And guaranteed no lost.
This is about a specific situation where the gold is locked away and impossible or very difficult to access (as in years to transfer over by sending gold alone). Not a situation where people have money in a retirement account that may take a few days to transfer over.
Most likely those people transfer their gold before Anet made the change.
And I think people are under the assumption it actually cause him/her a lot of gold. It’s only 2 million chest. Even if they bought every at 1 silver each, it only cost 20,000 gold. And it’s more like 15,000 gold since it start at 50 copper.
And your assumption is this is done by 1 person which may or may not be true. Not to mention they might use some automation tool so it’s not as tedious as you think(which is illegal).
And you say something like “why dont’ people just buy x item”. No one can perdict the future. If they can, everyone will be very rich. I’d like to know what item to buy now which have quick return and high profit. And guaranteed no lost.
My argument it was one person was based on a previous post that one person did it on an alt account. I was questioning why one person would do this. I was aware that it was gold transferred before the change, my post commented on it. The cost, I didn’t calculate myself, it was based on a post by Wanze who said 100k gold.
Anyway, I’m done with this, the last 2 posts show that either people aren’t reading my previous posts or they don’t understand my question which was, why would someone behave in this manner.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
I wouldn’t want my main’s TP be clustered with black lion chest. It is not convenient if your main account you play on want to buy or sell things.
I dont’ know why you think it is unreasonable. I did the same thing with another item. I bought 5000 stacks of an item on an alt account. And it’s not only me, one of the mass trader talked about doing the same thing on the forum. My guildmate is also doing it, that’s how I get started.
You can also shift item through guild bank. Which dont’ take as long as you think. The tedious part is selling them, since Anet limit the amount of items you can sell every minutes.
My argument it was one person was based on a previous post that one person did it on an alt account. I was questioning why one person would do this. I was aware that it was gold transferred before the change, my post commented on it. The cost, I didn’t calculate myself, it was based on a post by Wanze who said 100k gold.
Anyway, I’m done with this, the last 2 posts show that either people aren’t reading my previous posts or they don’t understand my question which was, why would someone behave in this manner.
I was simply responding to your bad/wrong analogy. The fact is most wealthy people I know in RL have money that is “tied up” and “inaccessible” because it is the best way to get a ROI.
I would think in game that having a substantial amount or most of ones funds on an alt account dedicated to trading would be preferable. Remember that this 500 gold limit is very new.
The amount of gold per hour in this game compared to what can be earned in many others is not that high aside from flipping items for profit. In the last game I played before this, dailies in different areas could provide players with the equivalent of about 80g/hour. This game may let you make a decent amount of money, but it doesn’t come that quickly. Most casual players aren’t going to see much in the way of gold in any short term period.
The majority of players that I’ve talked to who have a lot of gold have either earned it slowly over time via multiple accounts, farming, etc, or through flipping items, usually working prices as needed to make this happen. A new player at 80 without a decent amount of free time isn’t going to see even gold to unlock another inventory bag slot within a week of hitting 80, let alone playing with enough coin to buy many skins, etc.
Just comparing casual to casual here. For players with a lot more time, there are a few sub-based and B2P or F2P MMOs where a much higher equivalent amount of currency can be earned in the same time. That’s exactly one aspect of why people jokingly call this Grind Wars 2, because there is no significant means of earning gold aside from repetitive activity, and repetitive activity with a low payout at that.
I am merely stating that it is financially advantageous for Arenanet to make such moves. High volume items that carry a 15% transaction tax add up quickly in the gold sink.
There is no reason for them not to manipulate certain items which have floundered for a long period of time.
You do realize that the purpose of Gold Sinks is to buffer inflation, right? Anet and NC Soft doesn’t generate any revenue from the 15% “tax”. The money in a sink disappears from the game completely.
Also, it’s a well known fact that John will make adjustments to the economy to keep it healthy. They can “manipulate” drop rates or recipe requirements to meet long term goals.
Now as Wanze pointed out earlier, it would make no sense for Anet to step in and infuse the economy with a ton of currency to buy out all of one item. Players are the ones who benefit financially from each sold item. Such an instantaneous injection of wealth into the economy would have dire effects on currency valuation.
