Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

i hate buying stuff with gold in a game, the only thing i dislike more is probably buying stuff with real money in a game.

point is, new armors in other games can be goals, in FFXIV i want to craft a certain armor set, i want to get a different set from a raid. Which gives me goals, and things to do in game. Now if these gears are only available in the store, they really do nothing for making the game more engaging.

But i may be a special case

do you have all the dungeon skins unlocked? Because F me after a month I’m only getting close to finishing the crucible of eternity collection. Then there’s all the karma vendor skins. Then there’s all cultural armour skins. Then there’s the special champion weapon skins. Then there’s all the crafting profession backpacks and all the ascended skins that I didn’t unlock yet (every different stat is a different skin), then I don’t have all the legendaries either, not to mention the exclusive tequatl skins. You’re telling me that you have all of it?

I have a pet theory that part of the problem is that there’s no heirarchy for unlocking skins, so it ends up being a bit of a ‘kid in the candy shop’ kind of issue. Most games have an essentially set order for earning (even with crafting tracks), but past level 80 the only ‘ordered’ content is ascended and legendaries, and those only somewhat.

Windsagio.1340:

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

i hate buying stuff with gold in a game, the only thing i dislike more is probably buying stuff with real money in a game.

point is, new armors in other games can be goals, in FFXIV i want to craft a certain armor set, i want to get a different set from a raid. Which gives me goals, and things to do in game. Now if these gears are only available in the store, they really do nothing for making the game more engaging.

But i may be a special case

do you have all the dungeon skins unlocked? Because F me after a month I’m only getting close to finishing the crucible of eternity collection. Then there’s all the karma vendor skins. Then there’s all cultural armour skins. Then there’s the special champion weapon skins. Then there’s all the crafting profession backpacks and all the ascended skins that I didn’t unlock yet (every different stat is a different skin), then I don’t have all the legendaries either, not to mention the exclusive tequatl skins. You’re telling me that you have all of it?

I have a pet theory that part of the problem is that there’s no heirarchy for unlocking skins, so it ends up being a bit of a ‘kid in the candy shop’ kind of issue. Most games have an essentially set order for earning (even with crafting tracks), but past level 80 the only ‘ordered’ content is ascended and legendaries, and those only somewhat.

its not about order, its more about being gold based. or extremely grind heavy.

the dungeon aquisition method is decent, but i only liked COE armors,
cultural arrmors look cool, most times, but they are gold based, so boring to aquire
Champion skins drop rates are too low imo.
karma is basically gold
Many of the cooler skins end up requiring items that its easier to get gold for than to play the game normally to get. For example hunting charged lodestones, you will probably make less money, including the lodestones value, than if you do whatever the current best gold method is. So basically they too become gold grinds, just for a ton of gold.

essentially armor can act as a carrot for content, but for me if its just about earning gold it wont be very entertaining.

phys.7689:

karma is basically gold

how do you buy karma?

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

karma is basically gold

how do you buy karma?

You don’t but it can be converted into gold at a fairly consistent rate to be as if you earned the gold directly.

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

karma is basically gold

how do you buy karma?

You don’t but it can be converted into gold at a fairly consistent rate to be as if you earned the gold directly.

It’s 1 way though, karma can become gold but gold can’t become karma. There aren’t many karma specific skins, but there are a few (there are some rare skins from low level vendors and then there’s the temple armor which afaik can only otherwise be attained through accountbound fractal drops)

I think many don’t get the meaning of pay to win, basically a game is pay to win if game developers give any unfair advantage to players that are willing to spend money on the game, generally things that cannot be obtained otherwise or nearly impossible to obtain otherwise.

Bank slots and bag slots pay to win? if you really think so you have never ever experienced a real pay to win game, or worse, a game that wasn’t pay to win, but became one over time.

Mirta.5029:

phys.7689:

karma is basically gold

how do you buy karma?

you dont, but it feels generally the same as paying gold for an item
i suppose the karma items that need a big chain to be completed feel a little more thrilling, but the karma earning itself is pretty similar to accumulating gold.

“soft currencies” in the lingo, with gems being a ‘hard currency’

Exeon.4358:

I think many don’t get the meaning of pay to win, basically a game is pay to win if game developers give any unfair advantage to players that are willing to spend money on the game, generally things that cannot be obtained otherwise or nearly impossible to obtain otherwise.

Bank slots and bag slots pay to win? if you really think so you have never ever experienced a real pay to win game, or worse, a game that wasn’t pay to win, but became one over time.

^^ So much this

The only thing I can really see being argued as pay to win in this game is the boosters used in WvW (though I don’t really agree).

Exeon.4358:

I think many don’t get the meaning of pay to win, basically a game is pay to win if game developers give any unfair advantage to players that are willing to spend money on the game, generally things that cannot be obtained otherwise or nearly impossible to obtain otherwise.

Bank slots and bag slots pay to win? if you really think so you have never ever experienced a real pay to win game, or worse, a game that wasn’t pay to win, but became one over time.

But but but… if you throw those bags at someones head in pvp you might knock them out long enough for you to kill them, and then thats pay to win! WTF ANET SO UNFAIR

Exeon.4358:

I think many don’t get the meaning of pay to win, basically a game is pay to win if game developers give any unfair advantage to players that are willing to spend money on the game, generally things that cannot be obtained otherwise or nearly impossible to obtain otherwise.

Bank slots and bag slots pay to win? if you really think so you have never ever experienced a real pay to win game, or worse, a game that wasn’t pay to win, but became one over time.

Your definition of Pay-To-Win is a little bit, narrow minded.

Time advantage. This has been discussed, and now we’re at the point where posters are repeating themselves instead of offering any reason why a time advantage isn’t pay-to-win (which I described in this game as pay-to-equality with veteran players, and pay-to-advantage over new players). I have yet to say that’s a bad thing, (slightly unfair maybe, bad…not really). Question is, why is everyone so wound up over me calling it a form of pay-to-win?

Chrispy.5641:

Your definition of Pay-To-Win is a little bit, narrow minded.

Time advantage. This has been discussed, and now we’re at the point where posters are repeating themselves instead of offering any reason why a time advantage isn’t pay-to-win (which I described in this game as pay-to-equality with veteran players, and pay-to-advantage over new players). I have yet to say that’s a bad thing, (slightly unfair maybe, bad…not really). Question is, why is everyone so wound up over me calling it a form of pay-to-win?

Because at most it’s pay to equal. There’s nothing to win. You have no power advantage. And even then what do you equal? When do you win on a level playing ground?

If earning stuff were a race time advantage would be p2w. The thing is, getting stuff isn’t a race, so it’s ins tead p2QOL

Chrispy.5641:

Exeon.4358:

I think many don’t get the meaning of pay to win, basically a game is pay to win if game developers give any unfair advantage to players that are willing to spend money on the game, generally things that cannot be obtained otherwise or nearly impossible to obtain otherwise.

Bank slots and bag slots pay to win? if you really think so you have never ever experienced a real pay to win game, or worse, a game that wasn’t pay to win, but became one over time.

Your definition of Pay-To-Win is a little bit, narrow minded.

Time advantage. This has been discussed, and now we’re at the point where posters are repeating themselves instead of offering any reason why a time advantage isn’t pay-to-win (which I described in this game as pay-to-equality with veteran players, and pay-to-advantage over new players). I have yet to say that’s a bad thing, (slightly unfair maybe, bad…not really). Question is, why is everyone so wound up over me calling it a form of pay-to-win?

Time advantage is for sure a pay to win. It is because we all buy GW2 not to fight dragon, not to fight another player on WvW battlefield, nor win a PvP match.

GW2 is inventory management time attack, fight over the storage space for our loot, gather as much gold as possible, build ourselves in expensive skin where nobody care how our toons look. These are the central idea of the game. Doesn’t matter i deck out in BIS gear and still got beat by someone in all yellow gear. All matter is that little time management and more storage.

If above is so much matter to your game play, sure it is pay to win.

Me? I don’t even care, i play GW2 to fight dragon, help my world win in WvW, help my team in PvP. Thats what i think GW2 is about. Not playing GW2 inventory management time attack.

Exactly what are you winning?

Ayrilana.1396:

Exactly what are you winning?

I keep asking that and nobody seems to know.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ayrilana.1396:

Exactly what are you winning?

I keep asking that and nobody seems to know.

I don’t know either but they are possessed by the fantasy that ANet will read this and decide to give up a good portion of their income so that players who can get these items without paying real money can also get them without exerting themselves to earn the gold required to get them.

I don’t know why they don’t demand that each account get for free a full unlock of their bank tabs as well as all the character bag slots. If it is pay to win or pay to equality for the current amount of gold then it’s still pay to win/equality if they have to pay anything at all.

ANet needs to make money and given that financial success means continuation of GW2 and new content, I’ve got no problem with that.
Additional bag-slots are a convenience-item. You don’t need them but it’s nice to have them.

However, I think ANet could come around with some more special offers in that regard. Maybe an item which unlocks all bag-slots on a character, but costs as much as if ANet would give you one slot for free.

And now we are talking about LS content. Hello, wasn’t this thread about bag and bank expansion costs?

Behellagh.1468:

And now we are talking about LS content. Hello, wasn’t this thread about bag and bank expansion costs?

No, no, it was about how it’s pay to win.

I think. I don’t know, I need another drink.

Behellagh.1468:

And now we are talking about LS content. Hello, wasn’t this thread about bag and bank expansion costs?

Somebody believed gem store selling extra bag and bank expansion is pay to win.

I can’t think of how these gem store item is pay to win unless, we are playing GW2 for inventory management time attack, the one with faster management speed win, then yes, buying bag and bank expansion is pay to win. We really can’t stop someone plays the game their own way.

But i am a normal player, i play GW2 for dragon, wvw and pvp, so the mentioned items doesn’t make the game pay to win.

Some of the people who post are unrealistic. They want ANet to give up a good part of their income but the proposal to do so doesn’t say how ANet can make up the money lost. Their arguments are solely based on the inconvenience to them when a company won’t give it to them for free. Since it’s always inconvenient to customers when a company doesn’t give away items, their argument is unsound. No business does this simply because the customer doesn’t want to pay.

To be honest CONVENIENCE and COSMETICS are what makes ANET money.

The only gripe I have is that bag slots are a bit pricey compared to OTHER convenience items.
Other than that it seems fair.

Yes, I clearly support this opinion. This should be just a fix gold cost and not gem.

Chrispy.5641:

Exeon.4358:

I think many don’t get the meaning of pay to win, basically a game is pay to win if game developers give any unfair advantage to players that are willing to spend money on the game, generally things that cannot be obtained otherwise or nearly impossible to obtain otherwise.

Bank slots and bag slots pay to win? if you really think so you have never ever experienced a real pay to win game, or worse, a game that wasn’t pay to win, but became one over time.

Your definition of Pay-To-Win is a little bit, narrow minded.

Time advantage. This has been discussed, and now we’re at the point where posters are repeating themselves instead of offering any reason why a time advantage isn’t pay-to-win (which I described in this game as pay-to-equality with veteran players, and pay-to-advantage over new players). I have yet to say that’s a bad thing, (slightly unfair maybe, bad…not really). Question is, why is everyone so wound up over me calling it a form of pay-to-win?

So, if things that give you a time advantage are pay-to-win, all convenience items constitute pay-to-win.

The problem with this definition of pay-to-win is that it is so broad as to be pointless.

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Chrispy.5641:

Exeon.4358:

I think many don’t get the meaning of pay to win, basically a game is pay to win if game developers give any unfair advantage to players that are willing to spend money on the game, generally things that cannot be obtained otherwise or nearly impossible to obtain otherwise.

Bank slots and bag slots pay to win? if you really think so you have never ever experienced a real pay to win game, or worse, a game that wasn’t pay to win, but became one over time.

Your definition of Pay-To-Win is a little bit, narrow minded.

Time advantage. This has been discussed, and now we’re at the point where posters are repeating themselves instead of offering any reason why a time advantage isn’t pay-to-win (which I described in this game as pay-to-equality with veteran players, and pay-to-advantage over new players). I have yet to say that’s a bad thing, (slightly unfair maybe, bad…not really). Question is, why is everyone so wound up over me calling it a form of pay-to-win?

Not really, i did mention an item otherwise nearly impossible to obtain, one could say taking a ludicrous amount of time to obtain, while giving an advantage over other players “convenience” isn’t an advantage, having more bag space doesn’t give me any edge over other players, it would only allow me to be lazy with storage management.

I’m wound up that calling it pay to win is bad because it’s the wrong term for it, I’ve come down from games where they suddenly announce “permanent stat tomes” in the store, and in those gamers there isn’t a gold to payed currency converter meaning only real money would get you those.

People don’t get that pay to win is technically you having to pay to be able to compete with players that decide to pay, this tends to be a trend in Free to play games.

If people feel like dropping 300€ to get a legendary in the game, then sure I don’t mind, them having a shiny skin doesn’t give them any advantage over me.

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

Shakes head walks away.

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

Shakes head walks away.

Thank you for your random input. Next time follow the stuff you are quoting. Here:

- Astral believes anything that costs gold is ‘free’.
- Astral is completely wrong.

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

Shakes head walks away.

Thank you for your random input. Next time follow the stuff you are quoting. Here:

- Astral believes anything that costs gold is ‘free’.
- Astral is completely wrong.

gold is free, anyone play the game gain gold…

unless, you pay credit card for gold, beware what you’ve revealed….

any item with fixed in game gold is more or less free, because anyone play the game with their own pace, can gather enough gold sooner or later without spending a real world penny. That equal to free in a longer term.

As for gem, the more player convert gold to gem, the less player buy gem for gold, it is the reason why gem is expensive to buy with gold. If the Item cost gem, means the later you buy it, the more gold it cost you. (This is the reason of this thread) This make either players with a lot of free time (able to play a lot for a lot of gold: play to win) or players able to pay with credit card (pay for time). This is a well balanced system imo.

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

Shakes head walks away.

Thank you for your random input. Next time follow the stuff you are quoting. Here:

- Astral believes anything that costs gold is ‘free’.
- Astral is completely wrong.

Your side still hadn’t said where ANet is going to get the money (money from selling gems) that they would lose if they did what the OP suggested. An argument to a business that they should no longer charge a fee (OP’s suggestion that these items no longer cost gems is the fee I’m talking about) for items without taking into consideration how the business recoups these loses is unrealistic.

I doubt it is possible to calculate the impact. People might just spend the gems elsewhere, more people might stick around, crazy trading post elitists might quit in protest at ‘free’ space, etc.

If they can somehow show that their business will be severely impacted, they could always drastically reduce the gem cost. They would then sell a lot more.

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

Shakes head walks away.

Thank you for your random input. Next time follow the stuff you are quoting. Here:

- Astral believes anything that costs gold is ‘free’.
- Astral is completely wrong.

gold is free, anyone play the game gain gold…

unless, you pay credit card for gold, beware what you’ve revealed….

any item with fixed in game gold is more or less free, because anyone play the game with their own pace, can gather enough gold sooner or later without spending a real world penny. That equal to free in a longer term.

As for gem, the more player convert gold to gem, the less player buy gem for gold, it is the reason why gem is expensive to buy with gold. If the Item cost gem, means the later you buy it, the more gold it cost you. (This is the reason of this thread) This make either players with a lot of free time (able to play a lot for a lot of gold: play to win) or players able to pay with credit card (pay for time). This is a well balanced system imo.

Using your time does NOT mean free. Do you work for free?

Claiming that it would not impact business is quite silly.
Removing a rather large part of their income (and yes, I would say that it is rather likely that bank and bag-space is a rather large part of their gem store sales) WILL impact the income.

There is no company in their right mind that would remove one source of income without replacing it with another source that gives as much or more income.

Crossaber.8934:

Behellagh.1468:

And now we are talking about LS content. Hello, wasn’t this thread about bag and bank expansion costs?

Somebody believed gem store selling extra bag and bank expansion is pay to win.

I can’t think of how these gem store item is pay to win unless, we are playing GW2 for inventory management time attack, the one with faster management speed win, then yes, buying bag and bank expansion is pay to win. We really can’t stop someone plays the game their own way.

But i am a normal player, i play GW2 for dragon, wvw and pvp, so the mentioned items doesn’t make the game pay to win.

lets say you bought the game to play dragon kill, WvW killing, BUT you have to spend some of that dragon killing/WvWing/NPC saving/jumppuzzling/exploring time you have, doing inventory management/gold grinding
so now, the guy who can do all of that faster, is getting more time to kill monsters fight opponents, and save the world. While you are trying to sell items on the tp, buy salvaging kits, sell anything you dont need right now, because you ran out of space, he is killing up them dragons you bought the game to kill.

Lets be totally clear here, the game is actually effected by the economic design, and its not often to make you kill dragons better, but rather so that while your doing that stuff, you are willing to spend money, or give gold to someone else who spends money, so that you dont have to deal with those inventory management issues you didnt buy the game to play.

dietzero.3514:

I doubt it is possible to calculate the impact. People might just spend the gems elsewhere, more people might stick around, crazy trading post elitists might quit in protest at ‘free’ space, etc.

If they can somehow show that their business will be severely impacted, they could always drastically reduce the gem cost. They would then sell a lot more.

Why should they need to show that their business will be severely impacted? It’s your side making the suggestion. Your side is the one that needs to consider ways that ANet can recoup any losses. You can do it on a one to one basis. What does ANet need to do to recoup the loss each time any person gets a bank expansion or bag slot without paying the gem cost?

lordkrall.7241:

Claiming that it would not impact business is quite silly.
Removing a rather large part of their income (and yes, I would say that it is rather likely that bank and bag-space is a rather large part of their gem store sales) WILL impact the income.

There is no company in their right mind that would remove one source of income without replacing it with another source that gives as much or more income.

you are correct, this is a valid point.
Yes, the bank tab situation is not pleasing for many, and yes it does impact your general gameplay, however ANET gotta get paid somehow.

Unless you are willing to pay them in a different way, ask yourself whether its that big a deal.

But i dont agree with people trying to claim its not an advantage, it definately is advantageous, thats why people are willing to pay for it.

Its like by these standards being given a car/insurance/gas is not an advantage, because hey you can walk anywhere, or buy a car. Sure you can, but already having one is definately an advantage.

Lets not kid ourselves

the question is, is it an acceptable advantage, considering at the end of the day, anet gotta get paid to exist.

lordkrall.7241:

Claiming that it would not impact business is quite silly.
Removing a rather large part of their income (and yes, I would say that it is rather likely that bank and bag-space is a rather large part of their gem store sales) WILL impact the income.

There is no company in their right mind that would remove one source of income without replacing it with another source that gives as much or more income.

No one said it would not impact their business, so no idea why you said that…

I am betting it is a rather small part of their income. Their 1% whales would have bought most of theirs by now, and new players were scared off by the horrible NPE. Their weekly sales and new flavours are what make them their money.

dietzero.3514:

Using your time does NOT mean free. Do you work for free?

Time is only money (i.e. not free) when you’re using that time to make money.

If you’re playing videogames, unless you do that for a living then you’re not working.

The only change I feel that should be made to bag space is that it should be:

a) it’s an account unlock so one bag slot on every character gets unlocked, or
b) every bag slot on a single character gets unlocked

with both of these options available.

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

Shakes head walks away.

Thank you for your random input. Next time follow the stuff you are quoting. Here:

- Astral believes anything that costs gold is ‘free’.
- Astral is completely wrong.

gold is free, anyone play the game gain gold…

unless, you pay credit card for gold, beware what you’ve revealed….

any item with fixed in game gold is more or less free, because anyone play the game with their own pace, can gather enough gold sooner or later without spending a real world penny. That equal to free in a longer term.

As for gem, the more player convert gold to gem, the less player buy gem for gold, it is the reason why gem is expensive to buy with gold. If the Item cost gem, means the later you buy it, the more gold it cost you. (This is the reason of this thread) This make either players with a lot of free time (able to play a lot for a lot of gold: play to win) or players able to pay with credit card (pay for time). This is a well balanced system imo.

Using your time does NOT mean free. Do you work for free?

Your recreational time is free, because it is not otherwise being used to generate income. You’ve already made the decision to “waste” your time, thus it is valueless.

Gah, ninja’d by TheDaiBish.

dietzero.3514:

I am betting it is a rather small part of their income. Their 1% whales would have bought most of theirs by now, and new players were scared off by the horrible NPE. Their weekly sales and new flavours are what make them their money.

Yeah, except for the fact that the vast majority of the people shouting about the “horrible NPE” are veteran players that knew how the system was before, thus had something to compare to.
Based on actual in-game experience however I see plenty of new people running around.

And yes, their weekly sales do indeed make them money. But it is also rather silly to claim that they make no money off bank and bag slots.

You also still refuse to come up with what they should add to the store instead in order to replace the loss of income from removing the gem cost of bank and bag slots.

mtpelion.4562:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Yargesh.4965:

dietzero.3514:

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

Astral Projections.7320:

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.

The reason why bank and extra bag is behind gem store.

Gold is so much easier to gain nowadays than launch, but cost for gold convert to gem (that means getting gem store item for free) is increased a lot as well. Therefore, the longer the game life, the more expensive gold to gem cost, on the other hand, it is so much easier to pay cash to buy gem than getting it for free.

If bag and bank space become fixed gold cost, the longer a player stays, the easier they get the item for free. This is the reason why Astral said people are asking for free stuff.

Well he is completely wrong. Also, how much gold can you gain now, compared to 1 year ago? It is probably less.

Might look up what completely wrong means. When I started one gold was a good amount for an hour (personally). Now ten gold is fairly common in an hour.

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

Shakes head walks away.

Thank you for your random input. Next time follow the stuff you are quoting. Here:

- Astral believes anything that costs gold is ‘free’.
- Astral is completely wrong.

gold is free, anyone play the game gain gold…

unless, you pay credit card for gold, beware what you’ve revealed….

any item with fixed in game gold is more or less free, because anyone play the game with their own pace, can gather enough gold sooner or later without spending a real world penny. That equal to free in a longer term.

As for gem, the more player convert gold to gem, the less player buy gem for gold, it is the reason why gem is expensive to buy with gold. If the Item cost gem, means the later you buy it, the more gold it cost you. (This is the reason of this thread) This make either players with a lot of free time (able to play a lot for a lot of gold: play to win) or players able to pay with credit card (pay for time). This is a well balanced system imo.

Using your time does NOT mean free. Do you work for free?

Your recreational time is free, because it is not otherwise being used to generate income. You’ve already made the decision to “waste” your time, thus it is valueless.

Gah, ninja’d by TheDaiBish.

If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.

And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.

When someone proposes to a business that they drastically reduce a price for an item, they need to come up with a better reason than, “I want” or “not having is inconvenient to me”. Try giving that reason to any brick and mortar business and see if you don’t get laughed out of the building,

ANet’s need for income is no less than those other businesses. If someone is going to make a proposal for a price reduction, they have to put it in terms that show its advantage to the business. If you say, reducing the price will lead to more sales and increased income, what makes you think they didn’t check the other MMO stores and see the prices and the sale volumes at the different prices and select the best price for the maximum profits already?

lordkrall.7241:

dietzero.3514:

I am betting it is a rather small part of their income. Their 1% whales would have bought most of theirs by now, and new players were scared off by the horrible NPE. Their weekly sales and new flavours are what make them their money.

Yeah, except for the fact that the vast majority of the people shouting about the “horrible NPE” are veteran players that knew how the system was before, thus had something to compare to.
Based on actual in-game experience however I see plenty of new people running around.

And yes, their weekly sales do indeed make them money. But it is also rather silly to claim that they make no money off bank and bag slots.

You also still refuse to come up with what they should add to the store instead in order to replace the loss of income from removing the gem cost of bank and bag slots.

If you have a worse product, it doesnt mean no one will use it, it means less people will use it, or people will be willing to pay less for that product.

if the NPE is inferior, yes you will still see new people running around, but you will see less of them staying than you would have seen before, or they will spend less money. Which i imagine is the case, because if the same amount of new people were playing/spending, and staying, it is likely that profits would be the same or higher, but they have in fact gone down consistently since NPE was introduced, even in the holiday season.

dietzero.3514:

Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!

how was what he said not relevant?

When the game came out, you didn’t get a guaranteed yellow for doing world bosses, you didn’t get guaranteed gold for running dungeons, there were no champion loot bags, Spvp didn’t give you anything that you could use in PVE. Your income was less. So much indeed that getting Tier 3 Cultural was considered a huge achievement. Now if you so wished you could get that in a day.

Hence back then compared to now the gold to gem exchange was cheaper. Now it has adjusted itself to what would be equivalent difficulty for earning that gold to gems. If the price was fixed, however a year from now it was normal to count gold in thousands and not hundreds, people would make the money in 5 minutes. Why should that happen?

phys.7689:

Which i imagine is the case, because if the same amount of new people were playing/spending, and staying, it is likely that profits would be the same or higher, but they have in fact gone down consistently since NPE was introduced, even in the holiday season.

I would say it is much more likely about age. It is very unusual for a game to reach up to the same level of profits 2,5 years after release as it was close to release.
Most games tend to stabilize after some time, even without NPEs or whatever.

In fact I seem to recall the profit being lower (about the same level as the first report after NPE) even before the NPE was released.