Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Bag/bank space should cost gold, not gems
Ok? That has absolutely no relevance to what I said. But nice one!
how was what he said not relevant?
When the game came out, you didn’t get a guaranteed yellow for doing world bosses, you didn’t get guaranteed gold for running dungeons, there were no champion loot bags, Spvp didn’t give you anything that you could use in PVE. Your income was less. So much indeed that getting Tier 3 Cultural was considered a huge achievement. Now if you so wished you could get that in a day.
Hence back then compared to now the gold to gem exchange was cheaper. Now it has adjusted itself to what would be equivalent difficulty for earning that gold to gems. If the price was fixed, however a year from now it was normal to count gold in thousands and not hundreds, people would make the money in 5 minutes. Why should that happen?
while you are correct that it has scaled, i have seen no indication that scale is in line with actual buying power, in fact my guess is it is FAR from it.
yes, definately it was harder to get gold before, but was it harder to get a bank slot? no it really wasnt.
oct 7,
1 month after release, cost of 100 gems, 43 silver
at that time i believe you got 28 silver for beating a dungeon path
1 dungeon run = 65% of 100 gems
now, you get 1.5 gold for beating a dungeon, but it costs 13 gold for 100 gems
1 dungeon run =11% of 100 gems
before, each time a monster in orr dropped gold, it got you 1 gem roughly, now each monster dropping gold gets you .06 gems
so yeah inflation happened, but the increase in value of gems is not actually caused by the inflation, its a factor, but even accounting for inflation, gems have gotten more valuable as time has gone on.
1 month after release, cost of 100 gems, 43 silver
at that time i believe you got 28 silver for beating a dungeon path
1 dungeon run = 65% of 100 gems
now, you get 1.5 gold for beating a dungeon, but it costs 13 gold for 100 gems
1 dungeon run =11% of 100 gems
you literally got no money for beating the dungeon. Just greens and blues in the chest. Green/ blue buying power had to do with how much money regular people had, which was close to nothing.
before, each time a monster in orr dropped gold, it got you 1 gem roughly, now each monster dropping gold gets you .06 gems
how? They never dropped flat currency just items that could float in the exchange which was at that point very much gold free. Heck at Karka event people that got 30 gold for selling their precursors were happy because it was really serious money.
How the heck many inventory slots do you need?!
You can make your own guild and store things in the guild bank for just a few gold (buy the influence). And use your other characters as banks too of course.
If you really really need more than that… well Anet made it a hefty cost for a reason. You are that reason.
Currently i can have up to 160 bag slots.I want minimum 240 maximum 280.I also want a bag that combines exotics and ascended into one.And invsible bag that combines rare/exotic/ascended into one.Also Onether time invisible bag specifically for potions and food.
TxS – Tequatl Slayer Alliance (EU)
[quote=4803355;phys.7689:If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.
And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.[/quote]
Then it still wouldn’t be pay to win, It would be pay to have more time to do things in game while not caring about in-game gold.
Having more gold doesn’t give you an advantage as there is nothing to obtain to give you an advantage or an unfair edge, stats don’t really matter and the only thing you can get are boosters which can be accessed out of the store, and let’s be real here, noone cares about boosters.
If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.
Time only has value if you are getting something for it. Time that you spend on activities that do not generate value, is valueless. Time you PLAN to spend on such activities has the potential to generate value, but once you engage that activity, your time has become worthless.
Server: Devona’s Rest
Which i imagine is the case, because if the same amount of new people were playing/spending, and staying, it is likely that profits would be the same or higher, but they have in fact gone down consistently since NPE was introduced, even in the holiday season.
I would say it is much more likely about age. It is very unusual for a game to reach up to the same level of profits 2,5 years after release as it was close to release.
Most games tend to stabilize after some time, even without NPEs or whatever.In fact I seem to recall the profit being lower (about the same level as the first report after NPE) even before the NPE was released.
im not comparing it to release, i am comparing it to the months before npe.
but more telling than anything is the holiday season, it should have made more money during the holiday quarter than the quarter just before it, to actually make less is a sign that the users are either decreasing or less willing to spend money, even during the holiday season (which is the buying season in US) keep in mind profits include gem sales, and you see less interest.
Both are signs that users are not as satisfied with the product as they once were.
If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.
Time only has value if you are getting something for it. Time that you spend on activities that do not generate value, is valueless. Time you PLAN to spend on such activities has the potential to generate value, but once you engage that activity, your time has become worthless.
value doesnt = monetary value.
things have value even should the entire monetary system cease to exist.
and even if you only believe in monetary value(which is intrinsicly incorrect), something has monetary value because of how much someone would be willing to PAY for it. Not because of how much you sold it for. Once you have sold it you no longer have something of monetary value, you have money.
(edited by phys.7689)
im not comparing it to release, i am comparing it to the months before npe.
but more telling than anything is the holiday season, it should have made more money during the holiday quarter than the quarter just before it, to actually make less is a sign that the users are either decreasing or less willing to spend money, even during the holiday season (which is the buying season in US) keep in mind profits include gem sales, and you see less interest.
Both are signs that users are not as satisfied with the product as they once were.
everything was on sale (including the game itself), in order to make the same amount of profit they should have sold twice as much. Do you really think that there’s that many MMO gamers that never got GW2 in these 2 years and would still love to buy it?
im not comparing it to release, i am comparing it to the months before npe.
but more telling than anything is the holiday season, it should have made more money during the holiday quarter than the quarter just before it, to actually make less is a sign that the users are either decreasing or less willing to spend money, even during the holiday season (which is the buying season in US) keep in mind profits include gem sales, and you see less interest.
Both are signs that users are not as satisfied with the product as they once were.everything was on sale (including the game itself), in order to make the same amount of profit they should have sold twice as much. Do you really think that there’s that many MMO gamers that never got GW2 in these 2 years and would still love to buy it?
Spend a little time on Reddit GW2. You will see even AFTER the sale there are still A LOT of people joining.
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Mistband[MIST] – PVP Training guild EU
Spend a little time on Reddit GW2. You will see even AFTER the sale there are still A LOT of people joining.
that would just mean that their sale numbers are strong trough the other quarters too.
If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.
Time only has value if you are getting something for it. Time that you spend on activities that do not generate value, is valueless. Time you PLAN to spend on such activities has the potential to generate value, but once you engage that activity, your time has become worthless.
value doesnt = monetary value.
things have value even should the entire monetary system cease to exist.and even if you only believe in monetary value(which is intrinsicly incorrect), something has monetary value because of how much someone would be willing to PAY for it. Not because of how much you sold it for. Once you have sold it you no longer have something of monetary value, you have money.
Value = What OTHERS are willing to trade you for something.
No one is willing to pay you to play GW2, thus it is time that has no value.
You may get ENJOYMENT from it, but that is an intrinsic concept that has no value to others.
If I give you a stick, it has value. If you enjoy throwing sticks so you throw it away, your stick no longer has value. You got enjoyment, but are out a stick that you could have traded for a rock. Your stick is gone, you got nothing real for it.
Server: Devona’s Rest
im not comparing it to release, i am comparing it to the months before npe.
but more telling than anything is the holiday season, it should have made more money during the holiday quarter than the quarter just before it, to actually make less is a sign that the users are either decreasing or less willing to spend money, even during the holiday season (which is the buying season in US) keep in mind profits include gem sales, and you see less interest.
Both are signs that users are not as satisfied with the product as they once were.everything was on sale (including the game itself), in order to make the same amount of profit they should have sold twice as much. Do you really think that there’s that many MMO gamers that never got GW2 in these 2 years and would still love to buy it?
so assuming that everyone who has any interest in GW2 has already bought it, and most of the profit is coming from gem sales, why are less people willing to spend money on GW2 than they were last month? why arent they giving themselves, and their family/friends gift cards? gifting their friends transmutation stones. The general economy in real life is not worse than it was. Why are people not willing to spend as much as 3 months previous?
because they either lack interest in the product, or they are dissatisfied with the product.
I think you know what people tend to do when they grow bored, or worse, disatisfied with a game. and there is a high chance that some of the policies/changes before that q4 are responsible for people being bored/disatisfied
because they either lack interest in the product, or they are dissatisfied with the product.
or because the expansion has been announced and they’re saving up for that? They’re taking a break before the expansion? Because Season 2 of living story is over for now and the only thing in between is filler? Because we all spent quite a lot on gifts on Christmas and now we can’t be going around buying things? Because indeed the economy is plummeting again (even though it never fully recovered), especially with what’s happening with Ukraine and Russia?
Remember guys and girls, we dont have to pay every month to play this awesome mmo and running such a big game and constantly developing free content doesnt come cheap, so anet must get money from us in some why or another.
If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.
Time only has value if you are getting something for it. Time that you spend on activities that do not generate value, is valueless. Time you PLAN to spend on such activities has the potential to generate value, but once you engage that activity, your time has become worthless.
value doesnt = monetary value.
things have value even should the entire monetary system cease to exist.and even if you only believe in monetary value(which is intrinsicly incorrect), something has monetary value because of how much someone would be willing to PAY for it. Not because of how much you sold it for. Once you have sold it you no longer have something of monetary value, you have money.
Value = What OTHERS are willing to trade you for something.
No one is willing to pay you to play GW2, thus it is time that has no value.
You may get ENJOYMENT from it, but that is an intrinsic concept that has no value to others.If I give you a stick, it has value. If you enjoy throwing sticks so you throw it away, your stick no longer has value. You got enjoyment, but are out a stick that you could have traded for a rock. Your stick is gone, you got nothing real for it.
value isnt actually about what others are willing to trade you. Value is about what something is worth.
“the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.”
Im the last man on earth, like i am legend, do you think batteries have no value now? what about electricity? What about the dog that follows me around. Does food now have no value?
for the sake of dealing with others, people haggle and try to determine the trade value of items, but in order to acknowledge the trade value of items, you must first acknowledge that it has some actual value in and of itself.
Even within your analogy, the stick you threw away still has value, you just no longer have it. whoever finds that stick now has its value. He may even sell it back to you, because you like throwing sticks away.
And going back to guild wars, yes in fact people are willing to pay you to play GW2, its called the gold to gem exchange, and ANET sells people the time you put into guild wars.
They have renegade illegal people who will also sell people the time they put into guild wars without letting anet into the picture.
In fact players are willing to give anet money so that they can spend more of the time they alloted for guild wars actually playing what they want to play
So yes time still has value, the stick has value, and even monetarily it has value
Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.
Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.
Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.
As soon as you talk about taking an item at the Gem Shop and making it gold only, you are talking about free. Free from the point of view of ANet since the Gem Shop is their cash shop and their sole source of continuing income. The Gold to Gem pays for the Gem to Gold side of the exchange and vice versa. By lowering the price and making it gold would devalue the price of gems in terms of gold. If that goes down, less players would be incline to buy gems with cash which then impacts ANet’s and the games direct income.
So yes, what you are asking for is to make it free, because the 85-90g to “buy” 600 gems is too much for you (it was less than 80g last night) since you aren’t willing to fork over actual cash either.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
because they either lack interest in the product, or they are dissatisfied with the product.
or because the expansion has been announced and they’re saving up for that? They’re taking a break before the expansion? Because Season 2 of living story is over for now and the only thing in between is filler? Because we all spent quite a lot on gifts on Christmas and now we can’t be going around buying things? Because indeed the economy is plummeting again (even though it never fully recovered), especially with what’s happening with Ukraine and Russia?
the expansion wasnt announced in December, had it been anounced, the numbers may have been different. Then it would not just be about the game as it is, but what the game could become.
Which is why that december snapshot was really a sign about how people feel about gw2 in that moment, based on the actual game as it was. They didnt expect anything for the future, they spent time, or money based on what the game was delivering at the time.
oh yeah let me clarify, 4th quarter isnt what happened right now, though it is reported right now, its what happened roughly september to early january.
At that time irl economy was in an upswing, we knew nothing concrete about an expansion
http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2014/12/22/holiday-spending-borrowing-up-2014/20774881/
and yes if gw2 was doing well during that time period, people interested in gw2 would be giving people gw2 related gifts, like they did in 2013 and 2012, which both showed an upswing in profits from q3 to q4 (lets ignore 2012 since it was release time) That gift spending wasnt spent on GW2
lets be clear, im fairly certain their profits must be up since the announcement, but that wasnt in Q4, and its not really a good showing about how people feel about the features that were delivered in 2014
Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.
Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.
Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.
As soon as you talk about taking an item at the Gem Shop and making it gold only, you are talking about free. Free from the point of view of ANet since the Gem Shop is their cash shop and their sole source of continuing income. The Gold to Gem pays for the Gem to Gold side of the exchange and vice versa. By lowering the price and making it gold would devalue the price of gems in terms of gold. If that goes down, less players would be incline to buy gems with cash which then impacts ANet’s and the games direct income.
So yes, what you are asking for is to make it free, because the 85-90g to “buy” 600 gems is too much for you (it was less than 80g last night) since you aren’t willing to fork over actual cash either.
Which is perfectly acceptable
Buy To Play Guild Wars 2 2012-2015 – RIP
Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
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Unlucky since launch, RNG isn’t random
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Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.
Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.
Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.
As soon as you talk about taking an item at the Gem Shop and making it gold only, you are talking about free. Free from the point of view of ANet since the Gem Shop is their cash shop and their sole source of continuing income. The Gold to Gem pays for the Gem to Gold side of the exchange and vice versa. By lowering the price and making it gold would devalue the price of gems in terms of gold. If that goes down, less players would be incline to buy gems with cash which then impacts ANet’s and the games direct income.
So yes, what you are asking for is to make it free, because the 85-90g to “buy” 600 gems is too much for you (it was less than 80g last night) since you aren’t willing to fork over actual cash either.
not exactly true, increasing the demand for gold also can make anet profit, in terms of people willing to spend real money to get gold.
However as you say, the most important value is probably the demand for gem store items, because it is that demand for gem store items that causes people to sell their time to players who want gold.
It would require some actual math, and a number of educated guesses, but i agree that putting fixed gold cost on the bank tabs would probably not be profitable to anet directly, and even less likely if those prices arent extremely high.
The only real possible argument is that perhaps more people would be happy and spend more money elsewhere, but i dont think the inventory is in a place where its a strong turn off for people to deal with it.
However i havent played actively for awhile, and when i did play recently the amount of crap you have to sift through and manage did turn me off a bit, but not enough to say i’m less likely to play or spend money based on that factor alone.
basically, id say taking the picture as a whole, bank tabs costing gems is not deal breaker, and an acceptable proposition at this point in time.
That isnt saying its not an advantage, but its not really that different than if you had to buy it with gold, and its not so required it ruins the game experience without it.
The problem with the bag cost is that the price of gems seems to just keep going up. I haven’t bought a bag slot on the characters I now play and instead the ones I no longer use have all their slots unlocked. If the cost was more reasonable, I would go for it, but as it is, its just not worth the expenditure when you could instead put all that cash towards something like a legendary weapon.
The problem with the bag cost is that the price of gems seems to just keep going up. I haven’t bought a bag slot on the characters I now play and instead the ones I no longer use have all their slots unlocked. If the cost was more reasonable, I would go for it, but as it is, its just not worth the expenditure when you could instead put all that cash towards something like a legendary weapon.
The price is exactly the same as it was at release.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.
Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.
Oh I am sorry. I did not know wanting space to cost a static amount of gold meant free. Next time I will check with you on whether gold is a real currency in the game or not, before I post.
As soon as you talk about taking an item at the Gem Shop and making it gold only, you are talking about free. Free from the point of view of ANet since the Gem Shop is their cash shop and their sole source of continuing income. The Gold to Gem pays for the Gem to Gold side of the exchange and vice versa. By lowering the price and making it gold would devalue the price of gems in terms of gold. If that goes down, less players would be incline to buy gems with cash which then impacts ANet’s and the games direct income.
So yes, what you are asking for is to make it free, because the 85-90g to “buy” 600 gems is too much for you (it was less than 80g last night) since you aren’t willing to fork over actual cash either.
Which is perfectly acceptable
As it is today, it would cost you 7800 gems, $97.50 to buy 11 bank slots and 3 bag slots to max out one character’s bags, or at the moment roughly 1100g. Now since you bought the game to play and playing gives you gold (unless you simply stand around and talk) buying anything for gold, even gems to buy gem shop items, is free. I know I don’t love this game enough to spend $97.50 just on slots. But I did buy 7 bank slots with gold bought gems, when they were on sale. I buy gems everyday, not a lot, but it adds up over time so when stuff I want goes on sale, I don’t pay inflated gem prices as everyone rushes to convert gold to gems.
But those wanting to make it a gold only option is asking ANet to give away something that can cost real cash away, and yes, for free. But “rich” players can buy gold you say. True but it’s less gold meaning less gems to buy with cash meaning less income for ANet. I would hazard to guess that slots are a big seller (based on the gem exchange spike when they go on sale), up there with skins, keys and other convenience items like the X-fed salvage kits or the unlimited gathering tools.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
(edited by Behellagh.1468)
If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.
Time only has value if you are getting something for it. Time that you spend on activities that do not generate value, is valueless. Time you PLAN to spend on such activities has the potential to generate value, but once you engage that activity, your time has become worthless.
value doesnt = monetary value.
things have value even should the entire monetary system cease to exist.and even if you only believe in monetary value(which is intrinsicly incorrect), something has monetary value because of how much someone would be willing to PAY for it. Not because of how much you sold it for. Once you have sold it you no longer have something of monetary value, you have money.
Value = What OTHERS are willing to trade you for something.
No one is willing to pay you to play GW2, thus it is time that has no value.
You may get ENJOYMENT from it, but that is an intrinsic concept that has no value to others.If I give you a stick, it has value. If you enjoy throwing sticks so you throw it away, your stick no longer has value. You got enjoyment, but are out a stick that you could have traded for a rock. Your stick is gone, you got nothing real for it.
value isnt actually about what others are willing to trade you. Value is about what something is worth.
“the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.”Im the last man on earth, like i am legend, do you think batteries have no value now? what about electricity? What about the dog that follows me around. Does food now have no value?
for the sake of dealing with others, people haggle and try to determine the trade value of items, but in order to acknowledge the trade value of items, you must first acknowledge that it has some actual value in and of itself.
Even within your analogy, the stick you threw away still has value, you just no longer have it. whoever finds that stick now has its value. He may even sell it back to you, because you like throwing sticks away.
And going back to guild wars, yes in fact people are willing to pay you to play GW2, its called the gold to gem exchange, and ANET sells people the time you put into guild wars.
They have renegade illegal people who will also sell people the time they put into guild wars without letting anet into the picture.In fact players are willing to give anet money so that they can spend more of the time they alloted for guild wars actually playing what they want to play
So yes time still has value, the stick has value, and even monetarily it has value
In an economic discussion, the economic usage of “value” must be used.
Server: Devona’s Rest
The problem with the bag cost is that the price of gems seems to just keep going up. I haven’t bought a bag slot on the characters I now play and instead the ones I no longer use have all their slots unlocked. If the cost was more reasonable, I would go for it, but as it is, its just not worth the expenditure when you could instead put all that cash towards something like a legendary weapon.
so what you are saying essentially, is if bank slots costed less, they would sell more of them and make greater profits? essentially that they arent at their correct price point?
this may in fact be true, but you have to also consider, the real money side, while it may be a very poor option on the gold side, in real money it may be priced right. Perhaps its one of their higher selling items for people who buy it with money, at 8 dollars per expansion.
If you define free, as costing money your are correct
but valueless is false.
time has value, even if it is recreational time. This is why if someone wants to call a locksmith to open a door, in his off hours, he charges them more, because his recreational time has value. This is why you get paid more for overtime, because your extra time has value.
This is why some people will tell their bosses to noway when they call for some extra hours.And lastly, this is why people will pay money to be able to spend more of their recreational time doing what they actually enjoy doing, rather than preparing to do it, because that time has value.
Time only has value if you are getting something for it. Time that you spend on activities that do not generate value, is valueless. Time you PLAN to spend on such activities has the potential to generate value, but once you engage that activity, your time has become worthless.
value doesnt = monetary value.
things have value even should the entire monetary system cease to exist.and even if you only believe in monetary value(which is intrinsicly incorrect), something has monetary value because of how much someone would be willing to PAY for it. Not because of how much you sold it for. Once you have sold it you no longer have something of monetary value, you have money.
Value = What OTHERS are willing to trade you for something.
No one is willing to pay you to play GW2, thus it is time that has no value.
You may get ENJOYMENT from it, but that is an intrinsic concept that has no value to others.If I give you a stick, it has value. If you enjoy throwing sticks so you throw it away, your stick no longer has value. You got enjoyment, but are out a stick that you could have traded for a rock. Your stick is gone, you got nothing real for it.
value isnt actually about what others are willing to trade you. Value is about what something is worth.
“the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.”Im the last man on earth, like i am legend, do you think batteries have no value now? what about electricity? What about the dog that follows me around. Does food now have no value?
for the sake of dealing with others, people haggle and try to determine the trade value of items, but in order to acknowledge the trade value of items, you must first acknowledge that it has some actual value in and of itself.
Even within your analogy, the stick you threw away still has value, you just no longer have it. whoever finds that stick now has its value. He may even sell it back to you, because you like throwing sticks away.
And going back to guild wars, yes in fact people are willing to pay you to play GW2, its called the gold to gem exchange, and ANET sells people the time you put into guild wars.
They have renegade illegal people who will also sell people the time they put into guild wars without letting anet into the picture.In fact players are willing to give anet money so that they can spend more of the time they alloted for guild wars actually playing what they want to play
So yes time still has value, the stick has value, and even monetarily it has value
In an economic discussion, the economic usage of “value” must be used.
I already showed you even using a monetary definition of value, it still has value.
and economics isnt really just about money anyhow. Economics is about managing consumption production and distribution. This occurs even in units as small as one person. It occurs even when there is no money involved. Even if you were the last man on earth you would still have to make economic descions.
monetary value is a derivative of base value, and if you have a strong monetary system, anything of value also has monetary value.
your time playing guild wars has value, and just to prove that, people have figured out how to monetize time playing guild wars.
and yes if gw2 was doing well during that time period, people interested in gw2 would be giving people gw2 related gifts, like they did in 2013 and 2012, which both showed an upswing in profits from q3 to q4 (lets ignore 2012 since it was release time) That gift spending wasnt spent on GW2
after the war has started in Russia the ecconomical situation in the countries close to it all hit the bucket. Russians can’t afford anything, so companies don’t even sell to them anymore, Ukranians are in the exact same situation, Lithuanians just got the Euro (happened in December) which caused a complete ecconomic shift, I was busy trying to get a UK bank account so that I could stop fearing war shutting me down economically, Switzerland (I think it was?) did something about untying their currency from the Euro and producing more of it, which meant that Euro in general has plummeted.
It wasn’t a happy Christmas. But I’m glad that USA is stable.
and yes if gw2 was doing well during that time period, people interested in gw2 would be giving people gw2 related gifts, like they did in 2013 and 2012, which both showed an upswing in profits from q3 to q4 (lets ignore 2012 since it was release time) That gift spending wasnt spent on GW2
after the war has started in Russia the ecconomical situation in the countries close to it all hit the bucket. Russians can’t afford anything, so companies don’t even sell to them anymore, Ukranians are in the exact same situation, Lithuanians just got the Euro (happened in December) which caused a complete ecconomic shift, I was busy trying to get a UK bank account so that I could stop fearing war shutting me down economically, Switzerland (I think it was?) did something about untying their currency from the Euro and producing more of it, which meant that Euro in general has plummeted.
It wasn’t a happy Christmas. But I’m glad that USA is stable.
that sucks, reminds one that things are different all over the world.
While this is not a bad idea, I will put in my advance request for gem refunds for all the one’s I’ve bought so far…..only fair if they change it, right?
(not gonna happen for the above reason).
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
1 month after release, cost of 100 gems, 43 silver
at that time i believe you got 28 silver for beating a dungeon path
1 dungeon run = 65% of 100 gems
now, you get 1.5 gold for beating a dungeon, but it costs 13 gold for 100 gems
1 dungeon run =11% of 100 gemsyou literally got no money for beating the dungeon. Just greens and blues in the chest. Green/ blue buying power had to do with how much money regular people had, which was close to nothing.
before, each time a monster in orr dropped gold, it got you 1 gem roughly, now each monster dropping gold gets you .06 gems
how? They never dropped flat currency just items that could float in the exchange which was at that point very much gold free. Heck at Karka event people that got 30 gold for selling their precursors were happy because it was really serious money.
im pretty sure you got 28 silver for beating a story dungeon, i remember people at the time saying dungeons was mostly for earning money. And i remember my friend getting caught be the DR bug and only getting 15 silver while we were getting more.
and yes monsters did, and last i checked still have a chance to drop direct gold, hence items like this.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gilded_Infusion
it wasnt every kill, but yeah, they can drop gold.
About the value thing, there’s no sensible reason for people to want this change if they didn’t feel that gold had lower real value than gems.
This is one of those ‘hey I have this great idea that will make it so I don’t have to spend money I don’t want to spend!’ threads.
About the value thing, there’s no sensible reason for people to want this change if they didn’t feel that gold had lower real value than gems.
This is one of those ‘hey I have this great idea that will make it so I don’t have to spend money I don’t want to spend!’ threads.
actually its probably because the gem market doesnt really track the ingame gold value of individual items very well.
people may think a new costume is worth 90 gold, but it doesnt mean they think a black lion kit is worth 20 gold.
however to be honest, i doubt a bank slot would be cheaper than 90 gold anyhow
1 month after release, cost of 100 gems, 43 silver
at that time i believe you got 28 silver for beating a dungeon path
1 dungeon run = 65% of 100 gems
now, you get 1.5 gold for beating a dungeon, but it costs 13 gold for 100 gems
1 dungeon run =11% of 100 gemsyou literally got no money for beating the dungeon. Just greens and blues in the chest. Green/ blue buying power had to do with how much money regular people had, which was close to nothing.
before, each time a monster in orr dropped gold, it got you 1 gem roughly, now each monster dropping gold gets you .06 gems
how? They never dropped flat currency just items that could float in the exchange which was at that point very much gold free. Heck at Karka event people that got 30 gold for selling their precursors were happy because it was really serious money.
’You did actualy get money for the path since all the bosses droped was it 15s that you could use food to boost up.
About the value thing, there’s no sensible reason for people to want this change if they didn’t feel that gold had lower real value than gems.
This is one of those ‘hey I have this great idea that will make it so I don’t have to spend money I don’t want to spend!’ threads.
actually its probably because the gem market doesnt really track the ingame gold value of individual items very well.
people may think a new costume is worth 90 gold, but it doesnt mean they think a black lion kit is worth 20 gold.however to be honest, i doubt a bank slot would be cheaper than 90 gold anyhow
But prices are set at cash value of gems. They though a BLSK was worth 300 gems on day one or $3.75 while an armor skin set was 800 gems or $10. Now maybe the price was set because they were giving them away so when you get one you might feel happy about getting 300 gems/$3.75 item as a drop.
The point is they thought that a BLSK was worth 3/8ths the price of an armor skin set. Doesn’t matter if it’s cash or gold bought gems that ratio was that since day one. So it doesn’t matter if they track it or not.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
I have filled out an entire storage guild. It is not hard. I wonder more how people who actually play the game get by without space.
Have you tried not being a Skritt ?
I mean, it’s not terribly hard to do.
This thread has encouraged me to do a large amount of bank and bag cleanup.
Five 20-slot bags are more than enough for a new player. Sorry, no free stuff for you.
I am betting it is a rather small part of their income. Their 1% whales would have bought most of theirs by now, and new players were scared off by the horrible NPE. Their weekly sales and new flavours are what make them their money.
Yeah, except for the fact that the vast majority of the people shouting about the “horrible NPE” are veteran players that knew how the system was before, thus had something to compare to.
Based on actual in-game experience however I see plenty of new people running around.And yes, their weekly sales do indeed make them money. But it is also rather silly to claim that they make no money off bank and bag slots.
You also still refuse to come up with what they should add to the store instead in order to replace the loss of income from removing the gem cost of bank and bag slots.
Who is saying they make no money from selling space? Why did you falsely create that, and then bring it up multiple times?
I do not have to come up with a substitute. They can do that if they want. Saying someone has to have a solution to bring up a problem is absolutely ridiculous.
About the value thing, there’s no sensible reason for people to want this change if they didn’t feel that gold had lower real value than gems.
This is one of those ‘hey I have this great idea that will make it so I don’t have to spend money I don’t want to spend!’ threads.
actually its probably because the gem market doesnt really track the ingame gold value of individual items very well.
people may think a new costume is worth 90 gold, but it doesnt mean they think a black lion kit is worth 20 gold.however to be honest, i doubt a bank slot would be cheaper than 90 gold anyhow
But prices are set at cash value of gems. They though a BLSK was worth 300 gems on day one or $3.75 while an armor skin set was 800 gems or $10. Now maybe the price was set because they were giving them away so when you get one you might feel happy about getting 300 gems/$3.75 item as a drop.
The point is they thought that a BLSK was worth 3/8ths the price of an armor skin set. Doesn’t matter if it’s cash or gold bought gems that ratio was that since day one. So it doesn’t matter if they track it or not.
the thing is, the value of in demand items scales in terms of gold, to whatever people are willing to pay, in terms of gold. But the prices of items in the black lion store do not, in terms of real cash.
basically gold for gems is type of how much are you willing to pay system, where how much people are willing to pay is determined by how much they want whatever in demand item.
So basically what it comes down to, is they didnt accurately guage the correct relative values of their items, in terms of finding the right price points, and its entirely possible that there is not a consistent relationship between their values.
anyhow doesnt really matter much, the things people dont trade gems for, they dont trade gems for. They most likely arent losing much money having things few people want to buy there.
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.
Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
actually this happens all the time, its why you will often find different deals, locally even in fast food chains like mcdonalds, and if you haggle with owner in a store, you can often get better deals.
People think things are just the way they are, but people who try, often find out its open to negotiation.
but you got to give em a worthy incentive.
i know a dude who knocked like 4 thousand dollars off the cost of a pool table, and 20% and tax free of various retail goods. Its not my way, but yeah it happens.
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
actually this happens all the time, its why you will often find different deals, locally even in fast food chains like mcdonalds, and if you haggle with owner in a store, you can often get better deals.
People think things are just the way they are, but people who try, often find out its open to negotiation.but you got to give em a worthy incentive.
i know a dude who knocked like 4 thousand dollars off the cost of a pool table, and 20% and tax free of various retail goods. Its not my way, but yeah it happens.
Yea but you dont see people go in to a store, this is grass i cut on my free time i want to trade this for that pool table instead of real money.
Since my time is worth money.
Much more money then you could ever get for that pooltable, cuting this grass was what i did on said free time so it should be worth just as much.
(edited by Linken.6345)
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
actually this happens all the time, its why you will often find different deals, locally even in fast food chains like mcdonalds, and if you haggle with owner in a store, you can often get better deals.
People think things are just the way they are, but people who try, often find out its open to negotiation.but you got to give em a worthy incentive.
i know a dude who knocked like 4 thousand dollars off the cost of a pool table, and 20% and tax free of various retail goods. Its not my way, but yeah it happens.
Then what is the worthy incentive to ANet to remove the gem price for these items? What does ANet gain that makes it worthwhile to lose that income? I haven’t yet seen an answer to that.
Just saying, I want, is not an incentive.
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
It’s more like going into a Gamestop and saying “Hey, if I work at the store for 3 hours, will you give me a copy of GTA 5?”
Player’s time is less valuable to them than their money, so they want to pay the less valuable commodity.
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
It’s more like going into a Gamestop and saying “Hey, if I work at the store for 3 hours, will you give me a copy of GTA 5?”
Player’s time is less valuable to them than their money, so they want to pay the less valuable commodity.
lol you realize that is probably essentially how they get a lot of their employees? And its only some players, i honestly rarely have converted gold to gems because you actually end up working harder for the same thing
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
actually this happens all the time, its why you will often find different deals, locally even in fast food chains like mcdonalds, and if you haggle with owner in a store, you can often get better deals.
People think things are just the way they are, but people who try, often find out its open to negotiation.but you got to give em a worthy incentive.
i know a dude who knocked like 4 thousand dollars off the cost of a pool table, and 20% and tax free of various retail goods. Its not my way, but yeah it happens.
Then what is the worthy incentive to ANet to remove the gem price for these items? What does ANet gain that makes it worthwhile to lose that income? I haven’t yet seen an answer to that.
Just saying, I want, is not an incentive.
well thats up to the people saying to switch it to gold, im just pointing out that things are a lot more negotiable than people tend to think.
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
It’s more like going into a Gamestop and saying “Hey, if I work at the store for 3 hours, will you give me a copy of GTA 5?”
Player’s time is less valuable to them than their money, so they want to pay the less valuable commodity.
lol you realize that is probably essentially how they get a lot of their employees? And its only some players, i honestly rarely have converted gold to gems because you actually end up working harder for the same thing
The difference is that the employees are paid, and yes get an employee discount, but still have to pay $$$ out in the end.
Of course people that do that aren’t just off the street, are doing work that’s actually of value to the store, and have to actually get hired.
(edited by Windsagio.1340)
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
It’s more like going into a Gamestop and saying “Hey, if I work at the store for 3 hours, will you give me a copy of GTA 5?”
Player’s time is less valuable to them than their money, so they want to pay the less valuable commodity.
lol you realize that is probably essentially how they get a lot of their employees? And its only some players, i honestly rarely have converted gold to gems because you actually end up working harder for the same thing
The difference is that the employees are paid, and yes get an employee discount, but still have to pay $$$ out in the end.
yeah they work in the store, then they get a game.
In fact its actually a great proposition for the store owners, its probably illegal in some way though.
I can imagine them paying people below minimum wage in games they got as trade ins instead of real cash, and people loving it.
work for me for 2 days and i give you gta V. never mind it actually translates to 4 dollars an hour.
Walks into a brick and mortar store
Tells the management there, he wants them to reduce prices for items because it’s inconvenient to be without these items and he doesn’t want to spend money on them.
Management agrees and reduces prices.Yeah, I can definitely see that happening.
actually this happens all the time, its why you will often find different deals, locally even in fast food chains like mcdonalds, and if you haggle with owner in a store, you can often get better deals.
People think things are just the way they are, but people who try, often find out its open to negotiation.but you got to give em a worthy incentive.
i know a dude who knocked like 4 thousand dollars off the cost of a pool table, and 20% and tax free of various retail goods. Its not my way, but yeah it happens.
Then what is the worthy incentive to ANet to remove the gem price for these items? What does ANet gain that makes it worthwhile to lose that income? I haven’t yet seen an answer to that.
Just saying, I want, is not an incentive.
well thats up to the people saying to switch it to gold, im just pointing out that things are a lot more negotiable than people tend to think.
And in my example, the person is doing what the people in this thread is doing, saying “I want” without a negotiating offer that would interest the company. So your example doesn’t have anything to do with mine except that it reinforces our argument to them that they need to make an offer to ANet to offset ANet’s losses.
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
fixing forum bug blah blah