Guild Wars 2

Koviko.3248:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them.

WoW and Aion have had cash stores for years. WAR have been shut down for more than a year.

WoW did not have a cash store when I played it from 2004-2008. Its cash store was implemented in 2013, a whopping 9 years after release. Aion opened a cash store in 2012, two years after I quit, and roughly three years after release. WAR did not have a cash store when I played from 2008-2009. Dark Age of Camelot still does not have a cash store (and instead has a monthly subscription fee).

You’re actually wrong. WoW’s cash shop started in 2009.

Apparently it was an updated cash store that started in 2013. In either event, it was still many years after original release and long after I had quit.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Battle.net_Store

They may have re-branded the store in 2013 or something, but it existed since 2009 as the Pet Store. I personally purchased Lil’ XT and the Celestial Steed in 2010.

EDIT: Nvm, you got in a ninja-edit before I finished typing.

PulsarianDevil.8125:

Apparently it was an updated cash store that started in 2013. In either event, it was still many years after original release and long after I had quit.

And yet they still have a subscription AND box-costs.
It is also rather irrelevant that it was a couple of years after release or that it was after you had quit.

You claimed that there was no cash-shop. Which is quite clearly factually incorrect, seeing as they have had said cash shop for 6 years (which is more than half the games life).

lordkrall.7241:

But they have them now (and WoW also have subscriptions + box-costs on top of that).

It is quite irrelevant that they didn’t have them before. They have them now, and have had them for years.

You claimed that they didn’t have them, which is clearly false.

They didn’t have them when I played them—which is clearly true. Notice the word “had” in my original post. I also noted that cash shops may have been added to WoW/WAR/Aion (although WAR apparently died in 2013, no surprise there).

Original post: “Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them”

DAoC 2001-present- no cash shop
WoW 2004-2008 – no cash shop
WAR 2008-2009 – no cash shop
Aion 2009-2010 – no cash shop

At the end of the day, I’m not a huge fan of the cash shop. Everyone has their own opinion, though.

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

But they have them now (and WoW also have subscriptions + box-costs on top of that).

It is quite irrelevant that they didn’t have them before. They have them now, and have had them for years.

You claimed that they didn’t have them, which is clearly false.

They didn’t have them when I played them—which is clearly true. Notice the word “had” in my original post. I also noted that cash shops may have been added to WoW/WAR/Aion (although WAR apparently died in 2013, no surprise there).

Original post: “Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them”

DAoC 2001-present- no cash shop
WoW 2004-2008 – no cash shop
WAR 2008-2009 – no cash shop
Aion 2009-2010 – no cash shop

At the end of the day, I’m not a huge fan of the cash shop. Everyone has their own opinion, though.

I used to be able to buy a lot of things for a lot less than today, does not mean any business in the world will start selling for that price again.

Yargesh.4965:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

But they have them now (and WoW also have subscriptions + box-costs on top of that).

It is quite irrelevant that they didn’t have them before. They have them now, and have had them for years.

You claimed that they didn’t have them, which is clearly false.

They didn’t have them when I played them—which is clearly true. Notice the word “had” in my original post. I also noted that cash shops may have been added to WoW/WAR/Aion (although WAR apparently died in 2013, no surprise there).

Original post: “Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them”

DAoC 2001-present- no cash shop
WoW 2004-2008 – no cash shop
WAR 2008-2009 – no cash shop
Aion 2009-2010 – no cash shop

At the end of the day, I’m not a huge fan of the cash shop. Everyone has their own opinion, though.

I used to be able to buy a lot of things for a lot less than today, does not mean any business in the world will start selling for that price again.

Understandable. However, there is always supply and demand, and if a business overprices its products, it can potentially lose customers. Mythic overpriced its Warhammer Online product, and customers did not care to spend money to beta-test an unfinished game—so they subsequently left and the game’s servers were shut down.

In regards to cash shop vs monthly fee, I would much rather pay $15 a month and have access to all gem store content, than pay much more than $15 to have the same access. If everyone paid $15 a month, anet’s profits may not change that much. I don’t feel that $15 a month is a lot for a hobby, honestly. It’s usually less than a single weekend of drinking/partying.

PulsarianDevil.8125:

Yargesh.4965:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

But they have them now (and WoW also have subscriptions + box-costs on top of that).

It is quite irrelevant that they didn’t have them before. They have them now, and have had them for years.

You claimed that they didn’t have them, which is clearly false.

They didn’t have them when I played them—which is clearly true. Notice the word “had” in my original post. I also noted that cash shops may have been added to WoW/WAR/Aion (although WAR apparently died in 2013, no surprise there).

Original post: “Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them”

DAoC 2001-present- no cash shop
WoW 2004-2008 – no cash shop
WAR 2008-2009 – no cash shop
Aion 2009-2010 – no cash shop

At the end of the day, I’m not a huge fan of the cash shop. Everyone has their own opinion, though.

I used to be able to buy a lot of things for a lot less than today, does not mean any business in the world will start selling for that price again.

Understandable. However, there is always supply and demand, and if a business overprices its products, it can potentially lose customers. Mythic overpriced its Warhammer Online product, and customers did not care to spend money to beta-test an unfinished game.

In regards to cash shop vs monthly fee, I would much rather pay $15 a month and have access to all gem store content, than pay much more than $15 to have the same access. If everyone paid $15 a month, anet’s profits may not change that much. I don’t feel that $15 a month is a lot for a hobby, honestly. It’s usually less than a single weekend of drinking/partying.

There are others like yourself out there. Just not enough of them.

And if you pay $15 per months you will basically have access to everything in the store sooner or later.

The whole thing however is that many games today have BOTH a cash shop AND a subscription (and in the case of WoW, box-prices). Thus adding a subscription does not mean that there will be no cash shop.

lordkrall.7241:

And if you pay $15 per months you will basically have access to everything in the store sooner or later.

The whole thing however is that many games today have BOTH a cash shop AND a subscription (and in the case of WoW, box-prices). Thus adding a subscription does not mean that there will be no cash shop.

Understandable. Better profits for the company with both.

RoseofGilead.8907:

dietzero.3514:

So borderline pay to win.

lolno. You don’t need 8 bag slots on every character, or even on one character, to win anything. It’s “pay to hoard”.

Pay to hoard? Or pay for convenience. So what do you do instead? trash every item you can’t fit? waste time very 5 seconds you’re in a dungeon selling the loot, so often than you cant run the dungeon?

PulsarianDevil.8125:

Yargesh.4965:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

But they have them now (and WoW also have subscriptions + box-costs on top of that).

It is quite irrelevant that they didn’t have them before. They have them now, and have had them for years.

You claimed that they didn’t have them, which is clearly false.

They didn’t have them when I played them—which is clearly true. Notice the word “had” in my original post. I also noted that cash shops may have been added to WoW/WAR/Aion (although WAR apparently died in 2013, no surprise there).

Original post: “Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them”

DAoC 2001-present- no cash shop
WoW 2004-2008 – no cash shop
WAR 2008-2009 – no cash shop
Aion 2009-2010 – no cash shop

At the end of the day, I’m not a huge fan of the cash shop. Everyone has their own opinion, though.

I used to be able to buy a lot of things for a lot less than today, does not mean any business in the world will start selling for that price again.

Understandable. However, there is always supply and demand, and if a business overprices its products, it can potentially lose customers. Mythic overpriced its Warhammer Online product, and customers did not care to spend money to beta-test an unfinished game—so they subsequently left and the game’s servers were shut down.

In regards to cash shop vs monthly fee, I would much rather pay $15 a month and have access to all gem store content, than pay much more than $15 to have the same access. If everyone paid $15 a month, anet’s profits may not change that much. I don’t feel that $15 a month is a lot for a hobby, honestly. It’s usually less than a single weekend of drinking/partying.

This is why i never had problems with subscriptions. But the way the current store is setup, you’d pay hundreds of dollars before you get anywhere. Which is a couple years of subscriptions. Upfront.

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

But they have them now (and WoW also have subscriptions + box-costs on top of that).

It is quite irrelevant that they didn’t have them before. They have them now, and have had them for years.

You claimed that they didn’t have them, which is clearly false.

They didn’t have them when I played them—which is clearly true. Notice the word “had” in my original post. I also noted that cash shops may have been added to WoW/WAR/Aion (although WAR apparently died in 2013, no surprise there).

Original post: “Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them”

DAoC 2001-present- no cash shop
WoW 2004-2008 – no cash shop
WAR 2008-2009 – no cash shop
Aion 2009-2010 – no cash shop

At the end of the day, I’m not a huge fan of the cash shop. Everyone has their own opinion, though.

Remind me again when did gw2 come out was it bettwen 2008-2010 when subscription still ruled the mmo space?
Somehow the nr 12 got a strange feel to it.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

RoseofGilead.8907:

dietzero.3514:

So borderline pay to win.

lolno. You don’t need 8 bag slots on every character, or even on one character, to win anything. It’s “pay to hoard”.

Pay to hoard? Or pay for convenience. So what do you do instead? trash every item you can’t fit? waste time very 5 seconds you’re in a dungeon selling the loot, so often than you cant run the dungeon?

PulsarianDevil.8125:

Yargesh.4965:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

But they have them now (and WoW also have subscriptions + box-costs on top of that).

It is quite irrelevant that they didn’t have them before. They have them now, and have had them for years.

You claimed that they didn’t have them, which is clearly false.

They didn’t have them when I played them—which is clearly true. Notice the word “had” in my original post. I also noted that cash shops may have been added to WoW/WAR/Aion (although WAR apparently died in 2013, no surprise there).

Original post: “Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them”

DAoC 2001-present- no cash shop
WoW 2004-2008 – no cash shop
WAR 2008-2009 – no cash shop
Aion 2009-2010 – no cash shop

At the end of the day, I’m not a huge fan of the cash shop. Everyone has their own opinion, though.

I used to be able to buy a lot of things for a lot less than today, does not mean any business in the world will start selling for that price again.

Understandable. However, there is always supply and demand, and if a business overprices its products, it can potentially lose customers. Mythic overpriced its Warhammer Online product, and customers did not care to spend money to beta-test an unfinished game—so they subsequently left and the game’s servers were shut down.

In regards to cash shop vs monthly fee, I would much rather pay $15 a month and have access to all gem store content, than pay much more than $15 to have the same access. If everyone paid $15 a month, anet’s profits may not change that much. I don’t feel that $15 a month is a lot for a hobby, honestly. It’s usually less than a single weekend of drinking/partying.

This is why i never had problems with subscriptions. But the way the current store is setup, you’d pay hundreds of dollars before you get anywhere. Which is a couple years of subscriptions. Upfront.

Or you can play the game gain gold and buy anything you want and spend nothing, 180 mandatory a year or nothing whats better?
Third option pay how ever much you want.

Edit
The people anet earns money on are the ones with little time so they spend cash to be on even playing field with no lifers.
And the I want everything now crowd that cant spend time doing what they enjoy to get stuff.

PulsarianDevil.8125

:
In regards to cash shop vs monthly fee, I would much rather pay $15 a month and have access to all gem store content, than pay much more than $15 to have the same access. If everyone paid $15 a month, anet’s profits may not change that much. I don’t feel that $15 a month is a lot for a hobby, honestly. It’s usually less than a single weekend of drinking/partying.

Normally I’d agree but I’d hate to pay $15 to have access to stuff I don’t want (like charr backpacks, dye kits, etc.).

For the sake of discussion, multiply how many months of GW2 you’ve been playing by $15, then figure out how many gems that would end up being. Odds are for that money you’d be able to buy all of the items you want and none of the other items you don’t care about.

For me I’m at ~30mos (30* $15=$450. $450/$10 = 45 *800 = 36,000 gems). That would cover everything I want in the gemstore and still have gems left over. So for me, I would much rather pay in a cash shop for what I want than to pay monthly and have months go by where there is absolutely nothing of interest for me and I’m still out that money.

PulsarianDevil.8125:

Yargesh.4965:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

I still think the gem-to-gold and gold-to-gem conversion rates are absurd.

I honestly wouldn’t mind them having a $15/month fee to play and just get rid of the gem store altogether.

Can’t think of a single game that has a sub but not the equivalent of the gem store. Can you name some?

Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them. All of those games had monthly fees, however. GW2 is the first mmo I’ve played without a monthly fee, and it’s also the first mmo I’ve played that has a gem store.

EverQuest did/does not have a Gem Store when I was playing, but it did have a rather hefty subscription fee (at the time). Ultima Online also did not have a Gem Store I’m aware of.

Dungeons and Dragons Online, however . . . was built entirely around its method of grabbing you by the wallet and shaking a little money out of you at a time.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

RoseofGilead.8907:

dietzero.3514:

So borderline pay to win.

lolno. You don’t need 8 bag slots on every character, or even on one character, to win anything. It’s “pay to hoard”.

Pay to hoard? Or pay for convenience. So what do you do instead? trash every item you can’t fit? waste time very 5 seconds you’re in a dungeon selling the loot, so often than you cant run the dungeon?

I already mentioned what I did. I carry some Salvage Kits with me and white/blue items get broken down. Bags get opened. I send crafting components to the bank storage regularly and keep track of whether I am full on anything. (Usually Bloodstone or Dragonite.)

Green gets held onto to sell. Rares will get checked to see if I got the skin yet, then broken down for the Ectoplasm (which gets deposited). Exotics . . . I don’t see often enough to have a rule for. “Stick in invisible bag and forget about it until later.”

Junk trophies I will throw out a small (1-2) stack if I need to. Green runes/sigils will be discarded if they’re a space issue. Rare runes/sigils are saved for Mystic Forge.

When do I spend time to break this stuff down? You know that period during a fight where you can pretty much stand still and auto attack without being at risk? Yeah. Also there’s usually time to click this stuff apart in small bursts. Rarely do I have total nonstop action even in WvW. (In fact, most commanders I follow do have “sell breaks”.)

I suppose the fact I don’t spend hours on hours doing this stuff is probably one reason I don’t have the problem of inventory space.

Koviko.3248:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

lordkrall.7241:

PulsarianDevil.8125:

Dark Age of Camelot never had a gem store for over 10 years. I don’t think WoW, WAR, or Aion had gem stores either, but it’s been a while and they may have added them.

WoW and Aion have had cash stores for years. WAR have been shut down for more than a year.

WoW did not have a cash store when I played it from 2004-2008. Its cash store was implemented in 2013, a whopping 9 years after release. Aion opened a cash store in 2012, two years after I quit, and roughly three years after release. WAR did not have a cash store when I played from 2008-2009. Dark Age of Camelot still does not have a cash store (and instead has a monthly subscription fee).

You’re actually wrong. WoW’s cash shop started in 2009.

The in-game cash store debuted in 2013. However, that’s splitting hairs because it mostly sold things that had been available in the Blizz websight cash shop years earlier,

lordkrall.7241:

Halvorn.9831:

Can I respectfully disagree? Converting between Gems and Gold is an option. An option that may help player under specific circumstances. You have gems left but not enough? Convert some gold into the missing gems. You need more gold but cannot spend the time currently? Buy some gems and convert them?

Independently of the current rate, the conversion is an option and options are good.

Oh, I like the option as well. But seeing as basically every single complaints about the gem-store prices is based around how much it costs in gold maybe taking it away (temporarily?) might be interesting.

Don’t give too much credit to the complaints. They’re basically a manifestation of, “I want it for less.” This phenomenon has been a thing since people started trading millennia ago. The reaction from the sellers/merchants is going to be the same also, they’re going to charge what they think the market will bear.

People really need to give up this Time = Gold = Free falsehood. It is ridiculous…

Hey, I have some work that needs doing. Anyone want to do it? You will only use up your time, so of course I will pay you nothing.

I am also seeing from some of you what seems to be contempt for those who actually put time and effort into this game. What is up with that?

dietzero.3514:

People really need to give up this Time = Gold = Free falsehood. It is ridiculous…

Hey, I have some work that needs doing. Anyone want to do it? You will only use up your time, so of course I will pay you nothing.

People need to understand why they spend time on entertainment. You play and you gain joy out of the time spent. If there is no joy for the time played, it is time to move on to other game seriously.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

RoseofGilead.8907:

dietzero.3514:

So borderline pay to win.

lolno. You don’t need 8 bag slots on every character, or even on one character, to win anything. It’s “pay to hoard”.

Pay to hoard? Or pay for convenience. So what do you do instead? trash every item you can’t fit? waste time very 5 seconds you’re in a dungeon selling the loot, so often than you cant run the dungeon?

I go and sell my greens and blues and salvageable items (the ones I haven’t already broken down for mats) and junk after every two paths (or three sometimes). I pretty much never have a case where my inventory is full and unable to take anything else because I take 10 seconds to go to the vendor nearest to the dungeon I’m doing. In the very, very rare cases where I do get a full inventory, I mail stuff to a friend and have them return to sender.

What I do works just fine, and I’m not wasting any time as far as I’m concerned. If hoarding every item until you can’t deposit anything else works for you, then go ahead and do it; play how you want to play. But no one NEEDS 8 bag slots to “win” anything in this game or to play in an enjoyable (and lucrative) fashion.

dietzero.3514:

People really need to give up this Time = Gold = Free falsehood. It is ridiculous…

Hey, I have some work that needs doing. Anyone want to do it? You will only use up your time, so of course I will pay you nothing.

The time is free if it’s play you’d be doing anyways. If you’re playing angrily for maximum gold efficiency, then I might suggest you can get better hourly elsewhere.

Windsagio.1340:

dietzero.3514:

People really need to give up this Time = Gold = Free falsehood. It is ridiculous…

Hey, I have some work that needs doing. Anyone want to do it? You will only use up your time, so of course I will pay you nothing.

The time is free if it’s play you’d be doing anyways. If you’re playing angrily for maximum gold efficiency, then I might suggest you can get better hourly elsewhere.

Shhhh, he’s trying to stretch to validate a point which might be valid . . . if he paid enough attention to change the direction he was going with this.

The “Time = Gold = Free” is indeed a bit of a falsehood, in regards to there being ‘no cost’. On the other hand, it’s skirting two particular issues which people who are in favor of the change are ignoring.

1 – The Bag/Bank Expanders are in the Gem Store and thus it’s always going to have real money used to pay for it. Even Gems bought through Gold do come from somewhere – they do not exist in a vacuum. Taking them out of the store and putting them up for just Gold means they no longer have a real money value and now need to have an arbitrary Gold value attached to make it more in line with what value ANet has set on the items.

(In case you’re wondering, it’ll probably be very high and thus not reachable without grinding Gold. Why? Because it’s set at 400 Gems. If you do the math, that’s currently something like 14g for 100 Gems, which translates into 56g. If they set it at a Gold value just as is, do you think it would be less or more than that amount?

So you’d have to grind gold . . . or you could buy Gems and transmute them to Gold in order to buy something which you used to be able to buy with Gems in the first place. And you’d have to buy more Gems since the conversion of Gems to Gold is not as good. I don’t quite see a win in this situation.)

2 – Whether or not someone values their time to sit down and make Gold with their time is irrelevant to the value of the item. It’s already been valued and the desire to own it corroborates the notion it has value. So it’s not valueless, therefore work must be done to acquire it, and you’re just quibbling on whether it’s worth $20 of your wages (which you earned with time away from the game) or X hours of game play (devoted only to earning Gold).

I don’t know about you, but my time spent earning wages is not as valuable as the time I spend playing the game to . . . you know . . . relax? . . .

560g? At 14g per 100 gems? That’s 4000 gems. Slipped a decimal point somewhere?

And by free I think most of us using that argument means money isn’t being paid to ANet for that purchase. Sure those gems were bought by someone who then traded them for gold but once traded by the original buyer, it has no value to ANet, at least toward their bottom line.

Behellagh.1468:

560g? At 14g per 100 gems? That’s 4000 gems. Slipped a decimal point somewhere?

I will admit to being about four glasses of wine down on it when I ran the math. In my head. Mea culpa, I’ll change it.

(Yes. I do admit mistakes.)

And by free I think most of us using that argument means money isn’t being paid to ANet for that purchase. Sure those gems were bought by someone who then traded them for gold but once traded by the original buyer, it has no value to ANet, at least toward their bottom line.

Are you sure on that? It still has value, or rather it had value at one point. That is of more import to figuring out an absolute value which is what would need to be discussed when evaluating how to price these expansion purchases. Just because cash was not recently traded, doesn’t mean it stops being relevant cash was traded. It still happened. (If a concessions stand pays for something and holds onto it for two months, it still has value even if that money was spent last month and not in the latest invoices.)

What we are looking at here is one side saying they should be allowed to skirt the need for real money to enter into purchasing the Bag/Bank slots. People have pointed out, and I’ll join in . . . that is already the case. This is being asked for something which already exists.

If it’s liked, I’ll even set aside the concerns of what “win” is being paid for here or how it’s another unnecessary thing people just want quick access to.

Because the heart of the problem I’m having parsing this whole thing with “we just want it to cost gold” is that it already can cost gold through conversion.

Dawdler.8521:

wtf am I going to do with two dozen level 0-20 scrolls?!?!

Keyfarming.

Crossaber.8934:

dietzero.3514:

People really need to give up this Time = Gold = Free falsehood. It is ridiculous…

Hey, I have some work that needs doing. Anyone want to do it? You will only use up your time, so of course I will pay you nothing.

People need to understand why they spend time on entertainment. You play and you gain joy out of the time spent. If there is no joy for the time played, it is time to move on to other game seriously.

So you will be breaking up and carrying some concrete to a giant bin. You can do it over a few days if you like. It will only take time and effort, so I will not be paying you.

dietzero.3514:

So you will be breaking up and carrying some concrete to a giant bin. You can do it over a few days if you like. It will only take time and effort, so I will not be paying you.

Are you seriously comparing playing a game for entertainment to manual labour?

TheDaiBish.9735:

dietzero.3514:

So you will be breaking up and carrying some concrete to a giant bin. You can do it over a few days if you like. It will only take time and effort, so I will not be paying you.

Are you seriously comparing playing a game for entertainment to manual labour?

So if you enjoy manual labour then it is considered free?

dietzero.3514:

TheDaiBish.9735:

dietzero.3514:

So you will be breaking up and carrying some concrete to a giant bin. You can do it over a few days if you like. It will only take time and effort, so I will not be paying you.

Are you seriously comparing playing a game for entertainment to manual labour?

So if you enjoy manual labour then it is considered free?

Depends. I personally enjoy manual labour. if it’s to help out a friend I’ll happily do it for free.

I also do voluntary work in addition to paid work, so you’re probably asking the wrong guy.

The point is though, time is only equal to money if you use were using that time to make money (i.e. employment).

If you’re using that time to play videogames, then that time =/= money. That time is spare.

TheDaiBish.9735:

dietzero.3514:

So you will be breaking up and carrying some concrete to a giant bin. You can do it over a few days if you like. It will only take time and effort, so I will not be paying you.

Are you seriously comparing playing a game for entertainment to manual labour?

No, he’s seriously dodging discussion so he can exercise reductio ad absurdum trying to win points.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

TheDaiBish.9735:

dietzero.3514:

So you will be breaking up and carrying some concrete to a giant bin. You can do it over a few days if you like. It will only take time and effort, so I will not be paying you.

Are you seriously comparing playing a game for entertainment to manual labour?

No, he’s seriously dodging discussion so he can exercise reductio ad absurdum trying to win points.

its not really absurd at all. Just because you enjoy your time spent doesnt mean it isnt valuable.

I enjoy drawing, does that mean i should give out drawings for free? nope. Many doctors genuinely enjoy helping people, should they work for free? nope.

wether you have fun or not is completely irrelevant to the value of time, or whether it is worth money.
but forget being worth money, because regardless, time is an extremely valuable commodity, regardless of money, its probably the most valuable commodity anyone actually has.

dietzero.3514:

TheDaiBish.9735:

dietzero.3514:

So you will be breaking up and carrying some concrete to a giant bin. You can do it over a few days if you like. It will only take time and effort, so I will not be paying you.

Are you seriously comparing playing a game for entertainment to manual labour?

So if you enjoy manual labour then it is considered free?

Dude, do you feel yourself like a manual labour when playing GW2? If thats the case, i guess you indeed need to step away or at least take a long break.

dietzero.3514:

So if you enjoy manual labour then it is considered free?

if it’s your hobby then yes. Believe me, as a guild leader I also wish I was being payed to play sometimes, however this is my hobby, it doesn’t produce anything of value in the real world and I do it for enjoyment meaning that what we do is free.

Asking to be payed to play a game is the same as asking to be payed to read a book or watch a movie. Not going to happen. So yes, your time here is worthless and free. If you believe that your time is worth more than that, ignore your hobbies and get another job.

phys.7689:

its not really absurd at all. Just because you enjoy your time spent doesnt mean it isnt valuable.

I enjoy drawing, does that mean i should give out drawings for free? nope. Many doctors genuinely enjoy helping people, should they work for free? nope.

wether you have fun or not is completely irrelevant to the value of time, or whether it is worth money.
but forget being worth money, because regardless, time is an extremely valuable commodity, regardless of money, its probably the most valuable commodity anyone actually has.

Oh, that’s definitely better than “come over and do work for me for free, since it’s ‘just’ time being spent”.

Why can’t you be the person having this discussion more passionately than him?

Bag space does cost gold, if you want to pay with gold. I’ve bought 1 bag slot on one character and 1 bank extension (both with gold) and I’ve never ran out of space. If you want to hoard useless items that’s your problem.

dietzero.3514:

It should start low and scale higher, the more you buy. Linking something as critical as space to gems is severely punishing to new players and people with multiple characters/accounts, and the problem is only going to get worse. A static gold cost is a far better option.

Currently having to buy ~1000 gold worth of gems to max bank tabs and ONE character’s bag slots is ridiculous.

I strongly disagree.

If you have multiple characters and accounts, you have more storage than others. When I’m a new player, I expect to be short of space until I can afford more.

Currently, you can get 8-slot bags for 30c or so and 18-slot bags for 2 gold.

Anything beyond that… well, that becomes a convenience and, in my opinion, that’s properly offered via gems.

I’m sorry that the OP doesn’t see it that way, because ANet is unlikely to change this (outside of the occasional discounts) and therefore, the OP is likely to remain disappointed for a long time, at least on this topic.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Are you sure on that? It still has value, or rather it had value at one point. That is of more import to figuring out an absolute value which is what would need to be discussed when evaluating how to price these expansion purchases. Just because cash was not recently traded, doesn’t mean it stops being relevant cash was traded. It still happened. (If a concessions stand pays for something and holds onto it for two months, it still has value even if that money was spent last month and not in the latest invoices.)

This isnt’ ultimately about absolute value of anything though, it’s about converting the price into a format that has lower relative value to the people making the request.

“Gold is free” is too glib yes, but the request is blatantly self-serving.

They wouldn’t be asking it to be changed to gold if gold had higher, or even even value than/to gems to them.

Except gold has no direct value to ANet. Paying for a Gem Shop item with gold doesn’t help ANet meet payroll. And since you aren’t paying them in a currency ANet can use to make payroll, you are getting that item for free.

It’s not that hard of a concept.

Behellagh.1468:

Except gold has no direct value to ANet. Paying for a Gem Shop item with gold doesn’t help ANet meet payroll. And since you aren’t paying them in a currency ANet can use to make payroll, you are getting that item for free.

It’s not that hard of a concept.

thats like saying the guy at the collectible model shop doesnt get any value for collectible models.

and yeah he will accept collectible cars for payment IF you are giving him a better or equal deal to what he could get elsewhere, and he knows he can sell it. I know this because i have seen it irl, quite commonly.

you know there was a time, and its probably still the case, that gamestop makes more money off of reselling games than selling new games?

yes it has value to anet.

It only has value to ANet if a cash gem buyer exchanges for gold. But it makes no difference to ANet if the player bought gems with cash for gold or an item. The key point is they paid cash for gems.

And GameStop is a horrible racket that impacts developers by reselling the same copy of the game where the developer only gets money a slice of money from the first sale while GameStop gets a significant chunk money from subsequent sales. But that’s an entirely other issue.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

phys.7689:

its not really absurd at all. Just because you enjoy your time spent doesnt mean it isnt valuable.

I enjoy drawing, does that mean i should give out drawings for free? nope. Many doctors genuinely enjoy helping people, should they work for free? nope.

wether you have fun or not is completely irrelevant to the value of time, or whether it is worth money.
but forget being worth money, because regardless, time is an extremely valuable commodity, regardless of money, its probably the most valuable commodity anyone actually has.

Oh, that’s definitely better than “come over and do work for me for free, since it’s ‘just’ time being spent”.

Why can’t you be the person having this discussion more passionately than him?

The ‘time and gold are free’ argument is just so kitten ridiculous, that I see no need to argue it in depth. It is patently obvious that it is wrong. If gold was free, then gems would be free. And if time meant nothing, then why do people pay real money to make up for it?

Behellagh.1468:

Except gold has no direct value to ANet. Paying for a Gem Shop item with gold doesn’t help ANet meet payroll. And since you aren’t paying them in a currency ANet can use to make payroll, you are getting that item for free.

It’s not that hard of a concept.

Its apparently a very difficult concept for you though. While gold has no value to anet, it has value to players (which is why you can convert gems to gold anyways). And since Gold has a gem value and gems have a gold value, Gold also has a cash value at any given time (and changes regularly). And since cash is valuable to Anet, by extension, gems are also valuable to Anet, and all gold in the game, regardless of whether it was farmed, or bought, has a direct value to Anet.

Indirect monetary value, but still a direct value to the total.

Behellagh.1468:

It only has value to ANet if a cash gem buyer exchanges for gold. But it makes no difference to ANet if the player bought gems with cash for gold or an item. The key point is they paid cash for gems.

And GameStop is a horrible racket that impacts developers by reselling the same copy of the game where the developer only gets money a slice of money from the first sale while GameStop gets a significant chunk money from subsequent sales. But that’s an entirely other issue.

yes it only has value if they can resell it, but they have created a transaction system that basically assures its already paid for before they even accept it at payment.
Thats what the currency exchange algorithms job is, to make sure anet is getting paid in cash for every gold exchange.

basically its worth it, if you know you can sell it, and anet knows they can sell it

and yeah gamestop are jerks in many ways, but they definately understood the value of something other people decided was valueless, and were wrong.

Would any of you deny that you want it in gold because spending gold seems lekittenous to you?

Behellagh.1468:

Except gold has no direct value to ANet. Paying for a Gem Shop item with gold doesn’t help ANet meet payroll. And since you aren’t paying them in a currency ANet can use to make payroll, you are getting that item for free.

It’s not that hard of a concept.

It does though. The gems on the exchange aren’t magiced up out of thin air. Each and every gem you’ve ever purchased with gold began life when someone whipped out a credit card and put it there.

The echange didn’t being life with a stock of gems. It began life with a finite stock of gold.

In fact, the supply of gems in the exchange is what affects the gold price of gems. When you buy a gem item with gold, Anet is making the same amount of money they would have made if someone bought it directly with cash shopped gems, and in fact, that money was already made before you even bought the item, the moment the original purchaser of those gems completed their transaction.

Your ability to buy gem items with gold is absolutely of value to Anet, because it encourages people to buy gems so they can sell them to you. Thus, your ability to reliably make and spend gold is of value to them because for that transaction to be attractive to the gem-buyer it has to be reasonably affordable in terms of the time and difficulty required to gain the gold to buy them.

Windsagio.1340:

Would any of you deny that you want it in gold because spending gold seems lekittenous to you?

To be honest, its not really a question of gold or not gold, that was a mistake by the OP
it already can be obtained through gold. What he really wants is a system that is more friendly to new players for the first additions.

but getting back to your question, i personally would rather buy it with cash, because your rate of pay for gold earning is pretty crappy, and i dont really like most gold earning methods in the game. I also tend to have a bunch of stuff i would rather use the gold i do get on.
generally the only time i exchange gold for gems is to make change(i got some left over gems), or if my freelancer life has me particularly broke in this moment, but generally i will just do without in that case.

for the record i probably wouldnt spend either on it. I think i have no expansion tabs at this time, i might have 1, im not sure

I just want to chime in and say I’m very pleased with the community responses on the state of “pay to win” being attached to things that have no impact on actually “winning” at GW2, as a means of shaming Anet for offering those things for cash and the players for purchasing things they would not have the time to accrue outside of busy schedules.

You can survive with the base amount of bag slots, the extra bags are just convenient, less stopping and vendoring between content. Can’t really speak for bank slots because it was one of the first things I bought Gold→Gems wise, but I don’t even have the max amount of bank slots, I do fine with what I have.

I wouldn’t mind if they changed how bag slot purchasing worked though. I’d rather they made it unlocked account wide (you’d still have to buy the X-slot bag for the alt), evenif it meant a gradual increase in gem cost per new bag slot you bought that’d be fine.

PopeUrban.2578:

Behellagh.1468:

Except gold has no direct value to ANet. Paying for a Gem Shop item with gold doesn’t help ANet meet payroll. And since you aren’t paying them in a currency ANet can use to make payroll, you are getting that item for free.

It’s not that hard of a concept.

It does though. The gems on the exchange aren’t magiced up out of thin air. Each and every gem you’ve ever purchased with gold began life when someone whipped out a credit card and put it there.

The echange didn’t being life with a stock of gems. It began life with a finite stock of gold.

In fact, the supply of gems in the exchange is what affects the gold price of gems. When you buy a gem item with gold, Anet is making the same amount of money they would have made if someone bought it directly with cash shopped gems, and in fact, that money was already made before you even bought the item, the moment the original purchaser of those gems completed their transaction.

Your ability to buy gem items with gold is absolutely of value to Anet, because it encourages people to buy gems so they can sell them to you. Thus, your ability to reliably make and spend gold is of value to them because for that transaction to be attractive to the gem-buyer it has to be reasonably affordable in terms of the time and difficulty required to gain the gold to buy them.

Yes I know how the exchange works, made and posted diagrams over two years ago on the working of the exchange and have argued with players thinking gems or gold are created by the exchange ever since.

My treatise is simple. You did not spend cash, real currency to acquire that item. Therefore you got that item for free, as in no real world currency spent. Yes it took you time to acquire enough in game money to trade for that item but it cost you zero real world currency, therefore free.

You could argue that someone else bought that item for you, indirectly buy selling gems that they bought with cash. But once bought, gems have no real world value since it’s a one way transaction. And if gems have no real world value then the gold you used to buy them have no value either.