Guild Wars 2

If salvaging ecto from a craftable recipe is a bannable offense for “damaging the economy”, then why not ban players that manipulate the Trading Post for profit?

It’s far more damaging to the in-game economy (by causing the prices of everything to go up) for these people to manipulate the prices of goods.

For those that are unaware, they buy up all of a specific resource/good (with all of the gold that they currently have) and then sell it at a higher price.

This causes everyone else that might need that specific crafting material or whatever to pay higher prices.

The market manipulators then profit off of everyone else.

They have THOUSANDS of gold, NOT by “playing the game” but by “playing the players.”

Yes, you might compare it to the stock market… But I think it’s more like a cartel or monopoly in terms of a real-life comparison. Both of which are illegal in the real world, as they harm the economy.

They’re far more damaging to the game’s economy than the “exploiters” were, in my opinion. (Granted, in many cases the exploiters may have been market manipulators.)

No. Just…no. Manipulating the market to make money is completely legitimate and has nothing to do with cartel like behavior. Everyone has the opportunity to do this, if you don’t take advantage of it, that is your own problem. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

No.

/fifteencharacters

phlemhacker.1372:

No. Just…no. Manipulating the market to make money is completely legitimate and has nothing to do with cartel like behavior. Everyone has the opportunity to do this, if you don’t take advantage of it, that is your own problem. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

The people salvaging those snowflakes were “just playing the game” as well. Based on the fact that those people got banned for “damaging the economy” Market manipulators should be banned as well.

phlemhacker.1372:

No. Just…no. Manipulating the market to make money is completely legitimate and has nothing to do with cartel like behavior. Everyone has the opportunity to do this, if you don’t take advantage of it, that is your own problem. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Price-fixing is a very serious offense in the real-world. Sony and Samsung are still facing charges in several countries for price-fixing on displays.

The price-fixing on displays caused all products using them (like TVs, monitors, tablets, and laptops) to be more expensive because of it… Thus hurting the consumer.

This isn’t the real world. (It has just occurred to me that I may have been playing too much EVE though)

+1

Risk should not be rewarded, or encouraged, more than effort. Sitting and chatting at the marketplace should not lead to riches. Going out and doing kitten, should.

Market manipulation is wrong. Its greedy. It benefits nobody except the manipulators themselves.

phlemhacker.1372:

No. Just…no. Manipulating the market to make money is completely legitimate and has nothing to do with cartel like behavior. Everyone has the opportunity to do this, if you don’t take advantage of it, that is your own problem. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Making ectos out of snowflakes is something that the game engine allows and only illegitimate because of arbitrary reasons. Everyone has the opportunity to do it. If you don’t take advantage of it, consider yourself lucky because when people discover a new, more efficient method to attain resources in the real world, they are given awards, not capital punishment. Don’t hate ecto farms, hate Anet.

Your definition of a manipulator is a bit wide of the mark. There shouldn’t be any consequence from buying low and selling high in any market, and with most markets, there are alternative sources of supply as it is hard for any one person or group to control all the supply.

Tell me more how traders are the good guys:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Buy-Armored-Scales

Disgraceful and shameful.

I think OP’s beef is with those people who can monopolize certain items.
Imagine someone with thousands of gold, buying up all (lets say) Runes of Divinity and listing them 2x as high.
Thats what happened with precursors, that went from being around 200g to 400g

I agree, apart from obvious bots there a lot of people damaging the TP, hopefully the new TP coming will fix some issues, but i agree with op its not a stock market game these people deserve bans as much as the exploiters on those trinkets do…maybe more..

you can get banned for salvaging items YOU make with YOUR own mats? W-T-F? what’s next? they’re gonna tell me how many hours per week im allowed to play? wtf is going on with gw2 exactly….

Dante.1508:

I agree, apart from obvious bots there a lot of people damaging the TP, hopefully the new TP coming will fix some issues, but i agree with op its not a stock market game these people deserve bans as much as the exploiters on those trinkets do…maybe more..

What new TP? Can you link?

Nuka Cola.8520:

you can get banned for salvaging items YOU make with YOUR own mats? W-T-F? what’s next? they’re gonna tell me how many hours per week im allowed to play? wtf is going on with gw2 exactly….

Yeh, pretty much, anything they say is not allowed ISN’T allowed. They can say it after someone done something and then punish the person because its not allowed.
And funny thing is, the players are using the system the best they can, but they arent actually glitching it or hacking it. They get banned by using things ANet implemented.
Their only mistake is not reading ANet’s mind and realizing that ANet never intended people to buy cheap materials, make items and salvage them for large profit.
Only way I’d agree someone should be banned for exploiting, is if they do something that is CLEARLY not right, like making a VERY strong raid boss die in 2 hits, or be unable to use skills.

Banning people for playing the market? After Arena specifically stated that playing the market is perfectly valid. Good luck with that. Its a ~free market~ and unless you want Arena to decide the price of everything for you (hello communism), you will deal with the ebbs and flows that come with a free market.

And, really, are we so pathetic as to compare (what was) a clearly bugged recipe that existed for all of a few days with a method of income that has existed since release? Sure seems desperate.

Vena.8436:

Banning people for playing the market? After Arena specifically stated that playing the market is perfectly valid. Good luck with that. Its a ~free market~ and unless you want Arena to decide the price of everything for you (hello communism), you will deal with the ebbs and flows that come with a free market.

And, really, are we so pathetic as to compare (what was) a clearly bugged recipe that existed for all of a few days with a method of income that has existed since release? Sure seems desperate.

There is a difference between ANet being stupid and putting in a recipe like that, and the actual game code not working properly (say, bugged boss).

Minos.5168:

Price-fixing is a very serious offense in the real-world. Sony and Samsung are still facing charges in several countries for price-fixing on displays.

The price-fixing on displays caused all products using them (like TVs, monitors, tablets, and laptops) to be more expensive because of it… Thus hurting the consumer.

But the described behavior isn’t price-fixing, so your example is rather useless.

Price-fixing is when all vendors of particular products agree to sell that product for a particular price. What the OP is complaining about is the notion that a person can buy all of the stock of a certain item and then sell it for a much higher price. That’s not price-fixing. It’d be more correct to call it market manipulation….I believe the technical term is “ramping”, but I’m not exactly a business major. :P

And I’m not actually sure whether this should be punishable or not. A lot of games permit it, it might be pushing into the realm of too much direct interference if ANet disallows it.

And for the last time, the snowflake thing was an obvious exploit. A very, very obvious exploit. Like, I could describe it to a child and they’d understand that something’s amiss. I’m rather tired of people complaining about the darn thing. “I don’t know what I did wrong! I just crafted this item with 1 ecto and consistently received two or more back every time, that’s all! And then I decided to repeat this process a few hundred times for some easy money. Is that so wrong?” Yes, yes it is, now stop complaining and accept your ban.

critickitten.1498:

Minos.5168:

Price-fixing is a very serious offense in the real-world. Sony and Samsung are still facing charges in several countries for price-fixing on displays.

The price-fixing on displays caused all products using them (like TVs, monitors, tablets, and laptops) to be more expensive because of it… Thus hurting the consumer.

But the described behavior isn’t price-fixing, so your example is rather useless.

Price-fixing is when all vendors of particular products agree to sell that product for a particular price. What the OP is complaining about is the notion that a person can buy all of the stock of a certain item and then sell it for a much higher price. That’s not price-fixing. It’d be more correct to call it market manipulation….I believe the technical term is “ramping”, but I’m not exactly a business major. :P

And I’m not actually sure whether this should be punishable or not. A lot of games permit it, it might be pushing into the realm of too much direct interference if ANet disallows it.

And for the last time, the snowflake thing was an obvious exploit. A very, very obvious exploit. Like, I could describe it to a child and they’d understand that something’s amiss. I’m rather tired of people complaining about the darn thing. “I don’t know what I did wrong! I just crafted this item with 1 ecto and consistently received two or more back every time, that’s all! And then I decided to repeat this process a few hundred times for some easy money. Is that so wrong?” Yes, yes it is, now stop complaining and accept your ban.

While it isn’t price fixing, it can be considered monopolizing, and abusing the power that a monopoly may confer, is definitely illegal. It really isn’t fair to newer players that older players, or rich people, can determine what I am supposed to pay, and should be the developer to decide this. I can understand if there was an investment standpoint, but this is not investing. This is people deciding to put a chokehold on items because they can, and -only- benefits the people that already have the money. Less money for the masses, means terrible economic downturn. It also leads to a lot of unhappy consumers. I’m not arguing here, but what is happening in the Market is definitely not good for business. In life, you have to pay bills, you have to pay for food, appliances, etc… However, this is a game, and should not ever be tied in to real life, as games are supposed to be an enjoyable experience, not a struggle to survive.

Conclusion: You get the Darwin award for playing this game legit.

Broken Angel.4956:

There is a difference between ANet being stupid and putting in a recipe like that, and the actual game code not working properly (say, bugged boss).

Bugs are a result of human error. The incorrect mats are a part of the game not working properly since, given every other recipe in the game of the same tier as the snowflake, it was vastly different, better, and completely circumventing of the price of salvaging where the major ingredient is either lost entirely or almost entirely.

cNcHellShadow.7691:

While it isn’t price fixing, it can be considered monopolizing, and abusing the power that a monopoly may confer, is definitely illegal. It really isn’t fair to newer players that older players, or rich people, can determine what I am supposed to pay, and should be the developer to decide this. I can understand if there was an investment standpoint, but this is not investing. This is people deciding to put a chokehold on items because they can, and -only- benefits the people that already have the money. Less money for the masses, means terrible economic downturn. It also leads to a lot of unhappy consumers. I’m not arguing here, but what is happening in the Market is definitely not good for business. In life, you have to pay bills, you have to pay for food, appliances, etc… However, this is a game, and should not ever be tied in to real life, as games are supposed to be an enjoyable experience, not a struggle to survive.

It’s not a monopoly either. That implies that the person who bought up all the supply is the only person who can possibly own any of that item and no one else can possibly put up the item for sale.

I already stated exactly what it is, using terms that more accurately resemble the sort of behavior it models in the real world. It’s market manipulation, and I believe the technical term is ramping. And as I said, a lot of games don’t do anything about it.

Vena.8436:

Broken Angel.4956:

There is a difference between ANet being stupid and putting in a recipe like that, and the actual game code not working properly (say, bugged boss).

Bugs are a result of human error. The incorrect mats are a part of the game not working properly since, given every other recipe in the game of the same tier as the snowflake, it was vastly different, better, and completely circumventing of the price of salvaging where the major ingredient is either lost entirely or almost entirely.

Yes, but in the 1st instance, the person actually misplaced a digit or some such, while here, they clearly made the snowflake a salvage item. It wasnt a single misclicked key.

No ones taking a risk here. Its flat colors, if you don’t like it. Don’t buy it. End of story. Obviously other people buy it regardless, whether they feel its overpriced or not is their own problem though.
In the end the person who’s getting jibbed is doing it to themselves for the instant satisfaction.

critickitten.1498:

Minos.5168:

Price-fixing is a very serious offense in the real-world. Sony and Samsung are still facing charges in several countries for price-fixing on displays.

The price-fixing on displays caused all products using them (like TVs, monitors, tablets, and laptops) to be more expensive because of it… Thus hurting the consumer.

But the described behavior isn’t price-fixing, so your example is rather useless.

Price-fixing is when all vendors of particular products agree to sell that product for a particular price. What the OP is complaining about is the notion that a person can buy all of the stock of a certain item and then sell it for a much higher price. That’s not price-fixing. It’d be more correct to call it market manipulation….I believe the technical term is “ramping”, but I’m not exactly a business major. :P

And I’m not actually sure whether this should be punishable or not. A lot of games permit it, it might be pushing into the realm of too much direct interference if ANet disallows it.

And for the last time, the snowflake thing was an obvious exploit. A very, very obvious exploit. Like, I could describe it to a child and they’d understand that something’s amiss. I’m rather tired of people complaining about the darn thing. “I don’t know what I did wrong! I just crafted this item with 1 ecto and consistently received two or more back every time, that’s all! And then I decided to repeat this process a few hundred times for some easy money. Is that so wrong?” Yes, yes it is, now stop complaining and accept your ban.

I wasn’t banned. I’m merely pointing out that if ArenaNet is going to ban people for affecting the economy, they shouldn’t focus solely on one subset.

Market manipulation will end up killing the game, in my opinion.

Why will new players pick up the game, when by “playing legitly” (as someone stated) doesn’t make them nearly enough gold to afford all the materials they need to craft the gear they need?

It’s far more dangerous to this game’s economy than anything else.

The original Guild Wars ran off of casual players. I’d say I play quite a bit… but I don’t want to devote my game time to determining what I should be buying and selling.

I can’t believe market manipulators find it “fun.” I mean, it’s not like you can accomplish anything with all this gold. Sure, you can convert it to gems and get everything in the Gem Store for free. (Though, I can’t imagine ArenaNet would appreciate that.)

I guess you can buy up a legendary. Congrats. You did no real work and got something intended to be a reward for a player’s hard work.

But then why keep playing the game once you get what you want? I don’t see market manipulators as being long-term players or even players that contribute to the game. I mean, if they’re taking advantage of other players in the TP then they probably aren’t actively helping out other players in-game.

Certainly market manipulators aren’t contributing to ArenaNet’s profit (aside from potential gem to gold sales by those that can’t afford things on the TP).

If a potential player saw the sorry state of the Trading Post, I’d imagine they’d just play another game instead.

It’s only good business sense for ArenaNet to put a stop to mass market manipulation.

I’m not saying ban anyone that sells something for more than they bought it for…

But people buying out THOUSANDS of a particular crafting material and relisting them all much higher is a type of behavior that is vastly more damaging than what others were banned for.

From what I understand about the recipe:
They would get the snowflake back with whatever % chance the salvage kit had for rare items. They wouldn’t get all the same crafting items back. They would then get 0 to 3 ecto like salvaging any other rare in the game.

Crafting a rare and then salvaging it for ecto was standard practice early in the game. Why should so many people get banned because of it?

ArenaNet’s explanation was that these types of “exploits” are damaging to the economy.

My argument is that market manipulation is far more dangerous. And they’ll eventually realize it. Hopefully before it’s too late.

The only real way to fight against market manipulation (without penalties against those players) would be to make all that gold worthless by making Gem → Gold conversions grant much more gold.
And they’ll have to do that, in order to convince people to pay for gold.

This will just further inflation.

Vena.8436:

Bugs are a result of human error. The incorrect mats are a part of the game not working properly since, given every other recipe in the game of the same tier as the snowflake, it was vastly different, better, and completely circumventing of the price of salvaging where the major ingredient is either lost entirely or almost entirely.

Except there was no bug in the snowflake incident. The recipe was working as intended. The only issue was that everybody on their team who came in contact with said recipe had no idea what “salvaging” is. That’s not human error, that’s human incompetence on a high level.

Also, not every other recipe of the same tier works the same. Just look at passion flowers. That’s a clear deviation. So, if they did it once, who’s to say they won’t do it again?

Playing the TP like it is a mini-game isn’t anything new. The difference is that drop rates have been nerfed into oblivion. It makes the difference between the wealth of the ‘working class’ hero and the ‘day-trader’ player laughable. Those players who don’t want to or don’t know how to manipulate the market are left toiling away in frustration for a mere pittance of what the TP players make simply logging in to check their sales.

When you realize that the game revolves around the mystic forge, the trading post, and the gem shop (GW2’s version of the holy trinity) you will then see why they will not ban market manipulators.

It either deters people, or they flock to the gem shop to buy gems to convert to da monieyz and then use it on the trading post. And when they are poor again, they buy more gems, and buy more stuff, and sometimes, they will numerically dump stuff into the mystic forge to only get bad results and then feel the need to dump more money into the gem shop.

See a trend?

The higher the prices…the more people will be pigeon holed into the gem shop, which is money in A.Net’s pocket. They will never ban these people.

Pasha.2367:

Playing the TP like it is a mini-game isn’t anything new. The difference is that drop rates have been nerfed into oblivion. It makes the difference between the wealth of the ‘working class’ hero and the ‘day-trader’ player laughable. Those players who don’t want to or don’t know how to manipulate the market are left toiling away in frustration for a mere pittance of what the TP players make simply logging in to check their sales.

How much do you make in an hour? My average is 20g
And guess what? playing the TP? it’s wrong, dead wrong, so wrong that only people who make profit off it seem to think it’s right.

So I can manage by myself thanks buddy.
And just because I didn’t post it enough:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Buy-Armored-Scales/first#post1146808

Tell me that is not unethical.

critickitten.1498:

And for the last time, the snowflake thing was an obvious exploit. A very, very obvious exploit. Like, I could describe it to a child and they’d understand that something’s amiss. I’m rather tired of people complaining about the darn thing. “I don’t know what I did wrong! I just crafted this item with 1 ecto and consistently received two or more back every time, that’s all! And then I decided to repeat this process a few hundred times for some easy money. Is that so wrong?” Yes, yes it is, now stop complaining and accept your ban.

It is simple if you dumb the issue down. It’s not like people can accumulate an infinite amount of wealth through snowflakes, all the while market manipulators are accumulating an infinite amount of wealth even as we speak. Snowflakes are one of the few time-limited scarce resource in game. Why would it not have special properties? The wintersday and new year sale also gave you more returns per gem than without the offer. So what’s next, ban everyone who took the offer?

teviko.6049:

When you realize that the game revolves around the mystic forge, the trading post, and the gem shop (GW2’s version of the holy trinity) you will then see why they will not ban market manipulators.

It either deters people, or they flock to the gem shop to buy gems to convert to da monieyz and then use it on the trading post. And when they are poor again, they buy more gems, and buy more stuff, and sometimes, they will numerically dump stuff into the mystic forge to only get bad results and then feel the need to dump more money into the gem shop.

See a trend?

The higher the prices…the more people will be pigeon holed into the gem shop, which is money in A.Net’s pocket. They will never ban these people.

The issue with that mindset is that they’ll have to increase the amount of gold you get from selling gems.

I’m not going to spend 100 gems to get less than 2 gold at this point. That’s just pitiful, in my opinion.

However, if you could get over 2 gold (maybe even over 3 gold) for 100 gems… Then the market may end up being flooded by people spending money on gems. I’m sure ArenaNet would enjoy this for a while…

But then inflation would occur and stuff would end up being even more expensive. (Only further requiring a higher gem-to-gold ratio.)

Inflation is bad for this game. It discourages new players, who I’d imagine are probably the best source of income…

Keeping money in the hands of a few people was something that ArenaNet stated they wanted to avoid in blog posts.

I am trying to figure out if this is one of those joke threads or if this player is for real.
Have you never played an MMO with a trading post or Auction House.
If you dont like the prices, dont buy the items, go get them yourself like they had to or the players that might of originally gone off and farmed them, crafted them etc etc.

Bnning players for trying to make pixel money in a virtual economy is just NO! unless of course its is via the more shady bot side of things.. then by all means wield the ban hammer with fury… if I want to use my money to buy up all the copper ore on the BTC and resell it all for a profit, then that’s my decision and its certainly not an exploit!

Who do you determine to be at fault in a traders market.. the trader for trying to make a living through supply or the customer willing to pay the prices, thus driving the demand.????

Just NO!

Bloodstealer.5978:

Bnning players for trying to make pixel money in a virtual economy is just NO!

Who do you determine to be at fault in a traders market.. the trader for trying to make a living through supply or the customer willing to pay the prices, thus driving the demand.????

Just NO!

Now that is funny.

You point out that it’s virtual money, and then equate these manipulators to someone “trying to make a living.”

These people have made THOUSANDS of gold doing this.

Why do they need that much gold? What are they doing with it? The most expensive vendor items are the T3 cultural armor (that many would consider to be overpriced). That’s 120g for a full set.

What, exactly, can you even do with thousands of gold (aside from buying legendaries and rare item skins)? It amuses me, since that seems like a pipe dream to me.

Bloodstealer.5978:

I am trying to figure out if this is one of those joke threads or if this player is for real.
Have you never played an MMO with a trading post or Auction House.
If you dont like the prices, dont buy the items, go get them yourself like they had to or the players that might of originally gone off and farmed them, crafted them etc etc.

Bnning players for trying to make pixel money in a virtual economy is just NO! unless of course its is via the more shady bot side of things.. then by all means wield the ban hammer with fury… if I want to use my money to buy up all the copper ore on the BTC and resell it all for a profit, then that’s my decision and its certainly not an exploit!

Who do you determine to be at fault in a traders market.. the trader for trying to make a living through supply or the customer willing to pay the prices, thus driving the demand.????

Just NO!

Power to the people!!

JUST YES!!!

In addition to what Minos.5168 said –
Any trader who owes a huge sum of gold may as well turn to RMT and make a fortune.
Feeding off the very same plague the community tries to fight.

I know I’d do it, and I know a player who lost all attachment to the game but still makes tons of money will do it, what else is left?

Bloodstealer.5978:

I am trying to figure out if this is one of those joke threads or if this player is for real.
Have you never played an MMO with a trading post or Auction House.
If you dont like the prices, dont buy the items, go get them yourself like they had to or the players that might of originally gone off and farmed them, crafted them etc etc.

Bnning players for trying to make pixel money in a virtual economy is just NO! unless of course its is via the more shady bot side of things.. then by all means wield the ban hammer with fury… if I want to use my money to buy up all the copper ore on the BTC and resell it all for a profit, then that’s my decision and its certainly not an exploit!

Who do you determine to be at fault in a traders market.. the trader for trying to make a living through supply or the customer willing to pay the prices, thus driving the demand.????

Just NO!

The problem is the drop rates have been nerfed. It makes it so that just going out to get it yourself takes tremendously more effort if it is even possible at all. Its ridiculous. The Traders aren’t ‘making a living’ as you so nicely put it. They are price gouging the already poor for goods that are not readily available.

Honestly, as much as I HATE answering in this trend.

Just don’t bother, if the market interferes with an aspect of the game as intrusively as to feel mandatory either by obvious design or just subtle design via say drop rates. Step away from the game and realize that you’re being forced into a system you don’t want to be in. Avoid that aspect and treat it with the (lack of) respect it deserves as well as the people that designed it.

If they let their market get manipulated and garbage to be flipped so as to trivialize the “price of labor” so to speak, then avoid it and let the bubble burst and laugh as folks lose tons of gold. It’s the ONLY way to deal with it.

Failing that do as most would vapidly respond and “stop playing the game” lol

Heinel.6548:

It is simple if you dumb the issue down. It’s not like people can accumulate an infinite amount of wealth through snowflakes, all the while market manipulators are accumulating an infinite amount of wealth even as we speak. Snowflakes are one of the few time-limited scarce resource in game. Why would it not have special properties?

I assume you’ve never played GW1, because (coincidentally) stuff that came from the holiday events in those games didn’t have massive market-breaking special properties, either.

You have to really stretch your thinking (and I mean REALLY stretch it) to rationalize an infinite money generation recipe as an intentional design choice.

The wintersday and new year sale also gave you more returns per gem than without the offer. So what’s next, ban everyone who took the offer?

Slippery slope.

They aren’t happy sticking to just the Market they also try to manipulate in the forums for Market benefits. Kind of sad the lengths some of them are going for virtual coin.

Note the OP in the thread and his arguing in another thread to leave precursors alone.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Buy-Armored-Scales

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Pre-Cursors-never-been-so-expencive

Make money off the Trade post? Sure! When it becomes the only thing a large group does then it needs to be scrutinized by Anet. Personally, I bought a FANTASY based MMO where I can KILL MONSTERS. I didn’t know I was supposed to spend my time in game playing Wallstreet.

Sadly, Anet actually encourages this by their DR and overall lack of good drops. Perhaps the convenience of the Trade post comes at too high of a cost in GW2. GW1 had NPCs running the important markets making it harder for people to manipulate them. Who knew … they had it right all along.

I agree,
Greed is bad Ban hammer.
Or Wealth redistribution. Hand over some of the money you made to those less fortunate. Lets have a safety net for those poor gamers who do open world gaming.
They get 0 loot drops and need all the help they can get. I mean they cant even afford to way point anywhere without the need for charity or a long killing spree. Which we all know is a detriment to gamer society. Think of the children my good players.

SO when the top 10 people do it it is ok and working as intended it is ok for them to have 50k gold. But when 250 do it for 500g it is bannable. That is wealth redistribution.
You now know where their priorities lie.

How about a person cant own % of all of a good available?

Reading every post here i have to say you guys either never played other MMOs with a trading post or something. For starters lets look at Diablo 3 where they prevent you from reselling items you bought on the Auction House. The items on it are inflated as can be to the billions of gold which would take a new person years to get legally. The economy is not there and what is there is a broken husk that shouldnt even be there. And some of the items sold in that Action House for real money are in the hundreds to thousands of real USD.

Eve, WoW, GW2 all allow market manipulation as does real life (no laws against you buying something for cheaper and reselling it for higher small groceries stores do it all the time you do realize). Smaller groceries stores (market Manipulators) often go to places such as Walmart(Trading Post) buy out the entire stock and resell it at 2X the price. Is there a law against that in any country? no there isn’t which is what you guys are trying to propose to the government (Anet). Try it in real life and see that goes. Its how Captializism works guys so buckle up and take it for a rough ride. Plus your not limited to just buying it from the Trading Post there is really easy methods to get materials. Find a creature of the lvl of item you want to get (lets say you need lvl20 materials), in this case the creature that i would choose is centaurs cause the drop rate of their bag is extremely high which gives a random material. If i need blood i go kill harpies which drop blood at extremely high rate. Lvl80 materials i find easier in WvW or in Orr. Salvage kits become your friend as if i were to sell all the materials i gained from buying cheap salvage kits (just the basic ones will do) i would have hundreds of gold i earned myself.

Market manipulators will say no to this because they want to horde the gold and continue the insane pricing.

Yes they need to be banned or at least watched to make sure they aren’t doing to the economy what they are doing right now. they need a set number of maximum possible charge rules to prevent tampering and they obviously don’t have it. In short it should not cost someone 100 gold to gear their toon in exotics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryanization

Aryanization is a term coined during Nazism referring to the forced expulsion of so-called “non-Aryans”, mainly Jews, from business life in Nazi Germany and the territories it controlled. It entailed the transfer of Jewish property into “Aryan” hands in order to “de-Jew the economy”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

Dekulakization was the Soviet campaign of political repressions, including arrests, deportations, and executions of millions of the better-off peasants and their families in 1929-1932. The richer peasants were labeled kulaks and considered class enemies.

kitteno.8103:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryanization

Aryanization is a term coined during Nazism referring to the forced expulsion of so-called “non-Aryans”, mainly Jews, from business life in Nazi Germany and the territories it controlled. It entailed the transfer of Jewish property into “Aryan” hands in order to “de-Jew the economy”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

Dekulakization was the Soviet campaign of political repressions, including arrests, deportations, and executions of millions of the better-off peasants and their families in 1929-1932. The richer peasants were labeled kulaks and considered class enemies.

Thanks for the wikipedia knowledge.

Was there a point here or did you not actually make a point because you knew you would then cross the line by calling people nazis indirectly?

kitteno.8103:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryanization

Aryanization is a term coined during Nazism referring to the forced expulsion of so-called “non-Aryans”, mainly Jews, from business life in Nazi Germany and the territories it controlled. It entailed the transfer of Jewish property into “Aryan” hands in order to “de-Jew the economy”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

Dekulakization was the Soviet campaign of political repressions, including arrests, deportations, and executions of millions of the better-off peasants and their families in 1929-1932. The richer peasants were labeled kulaks and considered class enemies.

So your taking 2 very harmful situations which lead to the entire wealth being in the hands of a select few (namely Hitler and Stallion) in this context? I don’t think they work very well here.

Suddenflame.2601:

So your taking 2 very harmful situations which lead to the entire wealth being in the hands of a select few (namely Hitler and Stallion) in this context? I don’t think they work very well here.

Stallion?

Does he look like this?

Banning market manipulator could get muddy.

I think what you want is a market with free flow of goods and not one where people are capable of cutting off supplies of easily. That I think would be beneficial to stabilizing the market, or make it stagnant, depending on perspective.

Whats the point of a marketplace if you can’t manipulate it?

Unfortunatelly there is nothing that can be done to fix this – well there actually are two things:

1) Increase loot

2) Remove TP from game

“they” only care when the prices go down (so people are lessing likely to gem > gold) then when prices go up, ecto prices were plummeting.

Kurakura.7281:

Whats the point of a marketplace if you can’t manipulate it?

This may come as a shock to someone who shouldn’t really care if he’s playing a space-game like eve or a fantasy game because in reality, he’s playing wall-street and his main interface UI mod is called “excel”:

The marketplace should help players exchange items that are roughly equally hard to get so they get what they need, not what they happened to find.

Not a chance of anet doing anything about it. Item price rises means more taxes mean more money out of the game mean more gems brought for real cash.