Guild Wars 2

I have played the game since release, took a break through most of the Karka bull and came back about two months ago. I had a 80 Necro and decided with all the changes in the game I would start a new toon. I had like a 20 thief but decided to start from scratch. Well I made it to 80 and started running Fracts and the obligatory CoF P1 to have some cash to get me on my way.

I don’t consider my self elite or hardcore by any means. I play causally but I play enough to understand my character and I built him to play the way I wanted. I run full zerker exotics with the emerald jewels for toughness. All my weapons are spec’d for PWR,CRIT, and CRIT damage, and I’m a mix of PWR and toughness on everything else. My build is a 10/0/20/20/20 build. It’s not something I found on the Internet it is something I made to play the way I like. Not saying its not on there somewhere, I just prefer to use what I come up with than copy someone else. I won’t get into skills and what not because that is not what this post is about.

So after that long winded explanation of my character it brings me to the question at hand. The beating of the dead horse if you will. Why oh why do I more and more often see on GW2LFG groups that don’t take anything but Guards, Wars, or Mesemers? I mean I know the answer, people want the fastest guaranteed way to get quickly through a dungeon or event. I have joined groups and got booted before we even started. I’m not here to talk about how great I am, but I know I can play my toon. How do I know this? Well let me put it to you like this, I run SB then either S/D or D/P (I don’t like S/P, too tanky). When I play I will start with SB and keep poison and bleed up on target with auto attack on, swap weapons, steal (removing boons and applying to group), daze target, then hack away using the updated skill three on S/D that removes more boons, roll or port out, and repeat. Adjusting of course to the situation. I keep shadow refuge up and only use it when a teammate is down to bring them back up or heal a teammate when it looks like they might drop. Which I might add I am doing more often than not. Not to mention I rarely get downed because of my mobility. So in short what I have is a class build that provides sustained DPS, boon removal and team buffs, a 99% chance to bring up a downed ally(if not sitting in AoE of course) and I’m spec’d to keep my health up on my own. Yes I’m no glass cannon. But I can do the job.

So ask yourselves if you are one of those people that will only run a certain group build, what more do you need. Well if its just to grind through an event like its your job and not enjoy the dynamics of mixing up your group make up, then well have fun. But if you read this and happen to be one of the God classes. Think about this next time you are in a group and they boot that thief or other class before you even start. Who knows, maybe that group leader will think twice when his two Guards and Mes leave right after. Cheers.

Ah…my eyes…no….paragraphs…

I didn’t bother to read that.

They want Guardians for the boons.

They want Warriors for For Great Justice.

They want Mesmers for Signet of Inspiration, Time Warp and a few other tinkers.

The thing is, a Thief does not bring much to a team. There’s always venom sharing, but the damage from that is negligible in comparison to the Mesmer+Warrior synergy between For Great Justice and Signet of Inspiration.

This is why I don’t pug very much.

I run an Engie, and half my runs are with my smallish guild consisting of Thieves, other Engies, a couple Rangers, sometimes a Guard or two, and various Eles and Mesmers.

Heck, the most talented player that I know is a thief, and I have watched him solo bosses after unexpected wipes, and know that I am a better player for running with him.

So yeah, don’t party with folks who don’t appreciate what you bring to the fight, but cultivate a friends list of people you respect and vice versa. I am never on the short list of preferred professions as an Engie, but I am very lucky to have a good guild and others I like to run with, and who know that I would bend over backward to make things go smoothly for the whole party.

There is something you must realise. Not everyone does dungeons/fractals or whatever just for the sake of completing it. Once people get familiar with the content they want to improve on it. Expand their boundries, do the things they have done but twice, three times as fast, for both fun and econimical reasons. And when you start to think about that, certain classes will simply overpower other classes in their capability of contributing to a faster, better run. It’s like that in every game.

In your case, you play a thief, why will you get kicked when you play the game just fine? It’s simple. If you join a CoF run for example, your purpose as a thief would be to deal as much damage as possible to minimize the time it takes to kill the bosses. Now thieves can do a substantial ammount of damage, but warriors can simply do even more damage, and add party-wide damage output with banners and FGJ. So the party leader’s options would be, keep this thief or replace him for a warrior who is going to be a bigger contribution to the team and make the run go just that bit faster and smoother?

So my point is, you can’t blame anyone for wanting to do a quick run where the class you decided to play has no business. If you join a group formed by someone else, you will have to deal with their rules. Make some new characters for example. Put in some effort to be accepted by the “elitist” side of the game. And if you don’t like that, make your own groups. It’s not going to stop and Arenanet can’t do a whole lot about it. They can keep nerfing things, but even then certain party setups will be superior to others.

Yeah I’ll take making trash trivial and Thief damage over a downed HB Warrior thanks.

I’ve never been in a party where someone gets booted due to class. Maybe you should start the parties.

lunyboy.8672:

Heck, the most talented player that I know is a thief, and I have watched him solo bosses after unexpected wipes, and know that I am a better player for running with him.

Because it’s class hard to play and all this bs and hate around it rose out of jealousy. Shadow refuge, Smokescreen, Blinding powder – doesn’t bring anything to team?

Personaly, I avoid partys that needs 2 guardians to start. It generaly means ppl are not skilled enough to go without it.

Chopps.5047:

Ah…my eyes…no….paragraphs…

lol, yeah, I’d love to have him rewrite that with more paragraphs and talking less about how he builds his thief

“Its all about how fast they can do it”
“Its all about efficiency”

Great….its not about having fun anymore. The game has become a job….again.

“But that’s how they have fun”

Really? Lat time I checked ‘fun’ wasn’t a word given in any of those answers. Its all about time and money.

+1 for nerfing speed clears.

On topic:

OP, I’m very sorry to hear that people treat you this way because of your class choice. Sadly, much of the community seems to be ok with this shallow means of game play and are happy to roll the ‘preferred’ classes themselves in order to do group content. Like you, I much prefer to play as I please and not be shackled into the community’s narrow expectations. Thus, why I play alone 95% of the time. XD

Rastos.3812:

My build is a 5/0/20/20/20 build.

So, what benefit do you get from not using 5 trait points at all? :p

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Its all about how fast they can do it”
“Its all about efficiency”

Great….its not about having fun anymore. The game has become a job….again.

“But that’s how they have fun”

Really? Lat time I checked ‘fun’ wasn’t a word given in any of those answers. Its all about time and money.

+1 for nerfing speed clears.

On topic:

OP, I’m very sorry to hear that people treat you this way because of your class choice. Sadly, much of the community seems to be ok with this shallow means of game play and are happy to roll the ‘preferred’ classes themselves in order to do group content. Like you, I much prefer to play as I please and not be shackled into the community’s narrow expectations. Thus, why I play alone 95% of the time. XD

I tend to enjoy the time I spend on this game more if any runs i do go fast and flawless. And as you can see I am not the only one. People simply have different prefferences for their dungeon runs, and you can’t blame anyone for playing the game THEY want to play it. Wether that be with or without being selective on what classes you take in your groups.

I myself don’t form pug groups exept for Fractals, where I accept pretty much any class as long as there is a presence of heavy classes. I don’t like to constantly kick people out of my group because they don’t run what I want them to run, so I stick with groups of friends who all agree that pre-organized runs make it much more fun for everyone.

I’m just kind of sick about everyone complaining about their class not being accepted in dungeon groups. It’s not going to change, and it better not be, or a huge part of the currently active community will simply quit the game. Just accept the fact that certain people play this game to get the best out of everything. It’s nothing but arrogant to want the elitist kind of gameplay in this game to disappear. You let us play how we want to play, we let you play how you want to play. Simple as that.

Oh sorry about the no paragraphs. Was typing it on my phone during a boring class. Wasn’t paying attention. Also someone mentioned my build. It is 10/0/20/20/20, sorry about the typo. Glad to see some discussion on the topic.

Rastos.3812:

Oh sorry about the no paragraphs. Was typing it on my phone during a boring class. Wasn’t paying attention. Also someone mentioned my build. It is 10/0/20/20/20, sorry about the typo. Glad to see some discussion on the topic.

Please don’t fidget around with your phone during class, or while driving. Or while in the Mens room.

Didn’t even read.

Scyte.2801:

I tend to enjoy the time I spend on this game more if any runs i do go fast and flawless. And as you can see I am not the only one. People simply have different prefferences for their dungeon runs, and you can’t blame anyone for playing the game THEY want to play it. Wether that be with or without being selective on what classes you take in your groups.

I don’t disagree that some people have more fun with things go quickly and smoothly. Some people do enjoy speed clears as a type of fun, its a challenge to see how fast they can do it. However, most of the people, when you ask them why they do speed clears – their answers have nothing to do with fun. They do it ‘because it’s the best way to make gold’ ‘because there aren’t any normal groups doing it anymore’ ‘because I just want to get it done’ And what’s worse, is that once the speed clear mentality is established, then everyone feels that is how it ‘must’ be done, and thus no one does it ‘old school’ ‘just for fun’ anymore. I cite FoW, UW, DoA, and Urgoz from GW1 as prime examples of this issue. Since this game does not have heroes for those that ‘dont have the right class’ to get into the speed clears, those people are just supposed to be ok with being excluded? Its ok that their playstyle isn’t tolerable? I think not. You don’t want your play style excluded, well neither do we.

I myself don’t form pug groups exept for Fractals, where I accept pretty much any class as long as there is a presence of heavy classes. I don’t like to constantly kick people out of my group because they don’t run what I want them to run, so I stick with groups of friends who all agree that pre-organized runs make it much more fun for everyone.

I tend to avoid pugs myself, simply due to the general attitude of most players. There is too much ‘you must have x gear’ ‘you must have x weapon’ ‘you must have traits done in x way.’ I prefer to build my character so that it suits how I play, not how others think I should be playing.

I’m just kind of sick about everyone complaining about their class not being accepted in dungeon groups. It’s not going to change, and it better not be, or a huge part of the currently active community will simply quit the game. Just accept the fact that certain people play this game to get the best out of everything. It’s nothing but arrogant to want the elitist kind of gameplay in this game to disappear. You let us play how we want to play, we let you play how you want to play. Simple as that.

Its fine to support multiple play styles (although, my personal opinion on speed clears differs strongly from yours, but its just an opinion) BUT they arent being supported is the problem. We cant ‘play our way, and you can play yours’ as you put it because of the exclusion issues, because no one wants variety anymore. Its all about efficiency, and that’s not how it should be. (See previous statement about speed clear mind set….ie mob mentality)

I find it interesting that you’re fine letting people play as they please, but its OK for people to be excluded….. and ‘that better not change’ So, you’re fine with it so long as its YOUR profession that isn’t excluded. Maybe one day it will be your turn to get nerfed into oblivion, then we’ll see how you feel about that.

“All classes welcome” is the best comment you can write or seek when using GW2LFG.

I will accept payment for this advice in either silver or ectos

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t disagree that some people have more fun with things go quickly and smoothly. Some people do enjoy speed clears as a type of fun, its a challenge to see how fast they can do it. However, most of the people, when you ask them why they do speed clears – their answers have nothing to do with fun. They do it ‘because it’s the best way to make gold’ ‘because there aren’t any normal groups doing it anymore’ ‘because I just want to get it done’ And what’s worse, is that once the speed clear mentality is established, then everyone feels that is how it ‘must’ be done, and thus no one does it ‘old school’ ‘just for fun’ anymore. I cite FoW, UW, DoA, and Urgoz from GW1 as prime examples of this issue. Since this game does not have heroes for those that ‘dont have the right class’ to get into the speed clears, those people are just supposed to be ok with being excluded? Its ok that their playstyle isn’t tolerable? I think not. You don’t want your play style excluded, well neither do we.

You cite GW1 speedclears to be a victim of this problem. Well you might have just found yourself the right person to argue with. I was a great fan of speedclears in GW1, in fact, it was the only thing that kept me playing that game after having achieved my 50/50 HoM points and GWAMM. I didn’t even do it for money. In fact it would cost me more money than I would earn most of the time. I just did it to improve my skill on each individual role, because that was my deffinition of fun. No money involved.

So why did this become the standard? Because the community wasn’t interrested in doing something randomly, while you can do it 10 times faster if you run a speedclear setup. The game got older, and the community of people who did randomway elite area runs had become near-extinct, because they were far too time consuming and far too likely to fail miserably.

So why is this “issue” also promoting itself in GW2, where everything CAN in fact be completed, no matter what party setup you bring? Because of for example AC path 1 and 3, the burrow events. No class can spike down burrows like an elementalist can. They make the burrow events during those paths a piece of cake and almost guarantee you to complete it without struggling. So what class would you always want to bring for an AC P1/3 run? Right, an elementalist. That’s just common sense. And that’s just the beginning.

The group of casual players who want to play whatever class and build they want to play in this game is nowhere near extinct though. You can see an immense ammount of complaint posts about this subject on this forum. You all should group up instead of individually complain. It’s an issue formed by the different kinds of players within the GW2 community, not by arenanet themselves. They have done a great job in dumbing down the benefits of running specific team setups vs running randomway compared to how it was in GW1. But again, there will always be a group of people who are unhappy about the current situation. There are 2 sides to everything, and people tend to forget that.

The best way to really “fix” this “problem” that we’re facing here, is to introduce an in-game LFG tool where you can tick wether you are looking for a casual group or an experienced group. Casual meaning any class and experienced meaning premade setups for example. That would sepperate the casuals from the elitists so that everyone can find the group they want to play with. This can already be done through gw2lfg, but there are still many people who are unaware of this tool, wich is why an in-game LFG tool would be much appreciated.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I find it interesting that you’re fine letting people play as they please, but its OK for people to be excluded….. and ‘that better not change’ So, you’re fine with it so long as its YOUR profession that isn’t excluded. Maybe one day it will be your turn to get nerfed into oblivion, then we’ll see how you feel about that.

I have every class at level 80 and geared out in full exotic or better. I did this specifically to always be able to reroll to something that might be more efficient for the team I’m running with. So this statement is invalid. I have experienced meta changes a lot back in GW1, and have had to create new characters because they overpowered characters I played previously. I have accepted that and embraced it, because I care enough about efficiency to work for it.