Guild Wars 2

Psilocin.1435:

Alice.8694:

How about rats in a box?

WoW’s mechanics are so brutally dependant on skinner’s box. That it is borderline disturbing.

GW2’s PvP is so poorly implemented that there is no element of true player skill or tactics involved.

See, a horrible generalization that is false. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true.

That’s it for me though. If you want to reply with another worthless post without any structural or logical arguement to back it up, it’s simply pointless for anyone to continue this discussion. And here people are complaining about the “WoW-fanboys’” idiotic generalizations that aren’t even based on reality. Oh, the irony. I guess people are right. There’s no middle-ground on official forums. You either get stupid fanboys who make no attempt to keep a civilized discussion going, or you get idiotic haters who believe that anything that doesn’t cater to them is wrong.

I don’t understand why you get so angry if people complain about wowkiddies: that term indicates wow players from wrath on that tend to want everything and NOW! and that will go to new games and start complaining that the game isn’t like wow and trying to force the devs to turn it into a wowclone (and then generally leave).

No one is saying nothing about wow players PER SE. By the way, I agree 100% on the last part of your post but that same sentence seems to apply more to the so called ’wowkiddies"

Thats not “wow kiddies” thats the new gen of players and the new gen of players needs to be fronted with a new gen of game development.

SWTOR, WAR, AION, AOC, ug…im not going to name ALL the flops but jfc…

None of those games, including this one, did not do very well (post release) on the important issues. They weren’t ready for them! Ill give GW2 credit they were initially pretty responsive but 60+ content is wrecked and I dont think they planned very well when it comes to smaller issues like, bots, economy problems, content bugs/exploits, graphics optimization, and class balance to name a few.

The new gen of player is not going to wait around for all these huge fixes. They’d rather wait for a finished product. If they don’t get it they will go right back to “Insert last MMO here”

robot.9134:

GW2 needs to turn it around and do it in a hurry if they are going to retain their player base. Its starting to look like previous flopped MMO’s and people are becoming bored and disgruntled quickly.

Don’t give me the garbage “You should have enjoyed the game and played slower…”

Where do people get off telling other people how to play? Some people play for end game and some people play more casual. You cant force a community to play casual. You have to plan for all types of play styles and if it took another year of development and a subscription fee….I would have paid it and waited.

Either way…. IMO…the biggest test for the development team isn’t year 1 or year 5 etc… its the first 2-3 months of release. They have done pretty well with server issues but pretty horrible at testing end tier content (60+), class balance, and botting to name a few….

You obviously didn’t follow the devolopment of this game or did any research before hand. People telling you that are just passing on what ANET had planned. ‘Endgame starts at level 1’ ring a bell at all to you? In other words, if choose to rush, skipping over and ignoring basicly the entire game, that is on you. You honestly can’t complain there is no content when you ignore it all. Try going back, and actually playing the game, follow the storylines, help people along the way.

Not every game is or has to be a rush to level cap. If that is your playstyle, fine, there are way more than enough games to fullfill your style. And just because a game dares to take its own path, doesn’t mean it will not succeed.

There are plenty of us who enjoy this game, and plenty more who will adjust and discover the beauty of just playing and not mindless rushing for some carrot on a stick.

You see, the beauty of this game aside from the game itself, is it has no monthly sub. Therefore, if you bought it, it is yours. You can play it till your hearts content. Then go play something else, come back at your leisure and play it again. No sub fee binding you to keep coming back. No major gear grind that is REQUIRED to do the next set of content. (Which by the way keeps you bound to keep playing, because getting behind in those types of games can really set you back, and causes your friends to either go on without you or suck it up and put their goals on hold while you play the never ending catch up game.)

So, play, take a break, come back when they add new content updates, which they have said will be at no cost to you, so again you have nothing to lose. New expansions.

Tbh, I’d rather that disgruntled players just email their complaints to anet and leave the forums clear of it.

In around 15 years of playing and community managing mmo’s I can still pretty much count the number of leaving posts that were designed to do anything but ego boost the author, and after experimentation, you’d be surprised by how many people were happy to “rage quit” and “never play again” only to crawl across broken glass to recover their accounts after I’d taken them at their word and perma-banned the accounts to save them the effort of “leaving”.

If you need to leave an exit review as the epitaph to your presence on a game, make it constructive and useful to players who might want to join the game. That means including an equal measure of what you liked or what drew you to the game, not just a page full of hate, spittle and bile.

Just my 2 penneth worth…

muthax.4720:

Psilocin.1435:

Alice.8694:

How about rats in a box?

WoW’s mechanics are so brutally dependant on skinner’s box. That it is borderline disturbing.

GW2’s PvP is so poorly implemented that there is no element of true player skill or tactics involved.

See, a horrible generalization that is false. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true.

That’s it for me though. If you want to reply with another worthless post without any structural or logical arguement to back it up, it’s simply pointless for anyone to continue this discussion. And here people are complaining about the “WoW-fanboys’” idiotic generalizations that aren’t even based on reality. Oh, the irony. I guess people are right. There’s no middle-ground on official forums. You either get stupid fanboys who make no attempt to keep a civilized discussion going, or you get idiotic haters who believe that anything that doesn’t cater to them is wrong.

I don’t understand why you get so angry if people complain about wowkiddies: that term indicates wow players from wrath on that tend to want everything and NOW! and that will go to new games and start complaining that the game isn’t like wow and trying to force the devs to turn it into a wowclone (and then generally leave).

No one is saying nothing about wow players PER SE. By the way, I agree 100% on the last part of your post but that same sentence seems to apply more to the so called ’wowkiddies"

I said I would leave, but I actually see the benefit of clarifying here. What Alice did, and several others do, is to refer to the entire game WoW, as something mind-boggling boring, tedious, addicting and so on. It’s the fact that they talk as if the entire game is something bad, and GW2 is everything right, when it’s obvious that everyone has their own taste. I don’t even believe the term “wowkiddie” or “wowfanboy” has been used in this thread. What has happened on the other hand, is that they keep talking about the PVE and PVP of WoW as if it’s something horrible and the source of everything that is wrong with new games nowadays. When it is, in fact, just THEIR PERSONAL OPINION.

If they want to be taken seriously, which I really hope they want to, as I’d love to keep discussing the pros and cons of WoW, GW2 and everything between heaven and earth, they need to stop doing that. People have different preferences. Some prefer the PVE in WoW, some the PVE in GW2. Some prefer the PVP in WoW, some the PVP in GW2. And that’s reality. GW2 isn’t worse or better. Neither is WoW. What we can talk about is what specific aspects we would prefer to see in GW2, because that is what is relevant. No one cares if they believe that WoW is a horrible game. Absolutely NO ONE. What we do care about is what they would like to see changed in GW2, or what they would like to see unchanged. What they think GW2 succeeds in doing, and what it could need improving on. That is fun to talk about. Both the praising and the hating of WoW has just become old, and it has no place on this forum unless it is to analyze GW2’s current state.

This thread has potential, and I’ll keep my eye on it. I just want people to get out of this evil circle that they seem so caught into, and start actually contributing instead of reducing every single thread into either mindless bashing of either WoW or GW2.

robot.9134
GW2 needs to turn it around and do it in a hurry if they are going to retain their player base. Its starting to look like previous flopped MMO’s and people are becoming bored and disgruntled quickly.

A small subset of a smaller subset – people who hang around forums and are quickly becoming bored and disgruntled. I can’t say if they represent the player base as a whole, I would suspect not. In any case, predicting the health of an MMO based on a handful of disgruntled players (or enthusiastic players, for that matter) is folly. And make no mistake, forums are not a representative sample of anything.

daemonlama.5413:

robot.9134:

GW2 needs to turn it around and do it in a hurry if they are going to retain their player base. Its starting to look like previous flopped MMO’s and people are becoming bored and disgruntled quickly.

Don’t give me the garbage “You should have enjoyed the game and played slower…”

Where do people get off telling other people how to play? Some people play for end game and some people play more casual. You cant force a community to play casual. You have to plan for all types of play styles and if it took another year of development and a subscription fee….I would have paid it and waited.

Either way…. IMO…the biggest test for the development team isn’t year 1 or year 5 etc… its the first 2-3 months of release. They have done pretty well with server issues but pretty horrible at testing end tier content (60+), class balance, and botting to name a few….

You obviously didn’t follow the devolopment of this game or did any research before hand. People telling you that are just passing on what ANET had planned. ‘Endgame starts at level 1’ ring a bell at all to you? In other words, if choose to rush, skipping over and ignoring basicly the entire game, that is on you. You honestly can’t complain there is no content when you ignore it all. Try going back, and actually playing the game, follow the storylines, help people along the way.

Not every game is or has to be a rush to level cap. If that is your playstyle, fine, there are way more than enough games to fullfill your style. And just because a game dares to take its own path, doesn’t mean it will not succeed.

There are plenty of us who enjoy this game, and plenty more who will adjust and discover the beauty of just playing and not mindless rushing for some carrot on a stick.

You see, the beauty of this game aside from the game itself, is it has no monthly sub. Therefore, if you bought it, it is yours. You can play it till your hearts content. Then go play something else, come back at your leisure and play it again. No sub fee binding you to keep coming back. No major gear grind that is REQUIRED to do the next set of content. (Which by the way keeps you bound to keep playing, because getting behind in those types of games can really set you back, and causes your friends to either go on without you or suck it up and put their goals on hold while you play the never ending catch up game.)

So, play, take a break, come back when they add new content updates, which they have said will be at no cost to you, so again you have nothing to lose. New expansions.

End game content? starting at level 1? lawl…

The system doesn’t match that statement.

This game is primarily pvp focused. The advantage of being 80 in WvW right now is huge. The best thing you can do for your server is get 80 and THEN queue.

Some people want to help and be involved with that. Some people want to be involved with that ASAP and then enjoy the stories/leveling with alts etc on down time.

About subscriptions?… its normally $15….thats NOTHING. I don’t mind paying it if I know its paying to hire employees to destroy bot populations and fix exploits/bugs in a much more timely manner…and do it accurately.

robot.9134:

Thats not “wow kiddies” thats the new gen of players and the new gen of players needs to be fronted with a new gen of game development.

SWTOR, WAR, AION, AOC, ug…im not going to name ALL the flops but jfc…

None of those games, including this one, did not do very well (post release) on the important issues. They weren’t ready for them! Ill give GW2 credit they were initially pretty responsive but 60+ content is wrecked and I dont think they planned very well when it comes to smaller issues like, bots, economy problems, content bugs/exploits, graphics optimization, and class balance to name a few.

The new gen of player is not going to wait around for all these huge fixes. They’d rather wait for a finished product. If they don’t get it they will go right back to “Insert last MMO here”

Aion may not have done that well in the US/EU but its a very successful game in the East so you can drop that.

You are bad in reading Muthax, that 12 million, was not the Chinese players ,Blizzard never included them in their official numbers as they pid their subscription model differently so there goes your argument ( and are you racist, what do you ahve against the Asian players playing it the way they want to?? ) . this is my last response as clearly you are one of those fanbois who resorts to ad hominem attacks to defend your latest love.

and btw Tusuri, you are the one who played the numbers card by suggesting your have the Legion to support the game with your playstyle… don’t use the card if you are gonna tuck tail and call it childish when it goes against you.

Scourge.4317:

Aion may not have done that well in the US/EU but its a very successful game in the East so you can drop that.

Aion was a great game. I can’t compare the game populations for different countries post release but the main issues with the NA/EU pop seemed the same. Class balance, end game content, and one of the biggest I remember was the lag in sieges.

Post release development. Its not enough to prepare. They have to react…and do it quickly….its an MMO killer. Add D3 to the list too and its not even an MMO…

Psilocin.1435:

muthax.4720:

Psilocin.1435:

Alice.8694:

How about rats in a box?

WoW’s mechanics are so brutally dependant on skinner’s box. That it is borderline disturbing.

GW2’s PvP is so poorly implemented that there is no element of true player skill or tactics involved.

See, a horrible generalization that is false. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true.

That’s it for me though. If you want to reply with another worthless post without any structural or logical arguement to back it up, it’s simply pointless for anyone to continue this discussion. And here people are complaining about the “WoW-fanboys’” idiotic generalizations that aren’t even based on reality. Oh, the irony. I guess people are right. There’s no middle-ground on official forums. You either get stupid fanboys who make no attempt to keep a civilized discussion going, or you get idiotic haters who believe that anything that doesn’t cater to them is wrong.

I don’t understand why you get so angry if people complain about wowkiddies: that term indicates wow players from wrath on that tend to want everything and NOW! and that will go to new games and start complaining that the game isn’t like wow and trying to force the devs to turn it into a wowclone (and then generally leave).

No one is saying nothing about wow players PER SE. By the way, I agree 100% on the last part of your post but that same sentence seems to apply more to the so called ’wowkiddies"

I said I would leave, but I actually see the benefit of clarifying here. What Alice did, and several others do, is to refer to the entire game WoW, as something mind-boggling boring, tedious, addicting and so on. It’s the fact that they talk as if the entire game is something bad, and GW2 is everything right, when it’s obvious that everyone has their own taste. I don’t even believe the term “wowkiddie” or “wowfanboy” has been used in this thread. What has happened on the other hand, is that they keep talking about the PVE and PVP of WoW as if it’s something horrible and the source of everything that is wrong with new games nowadays. When it is, in fact, just THEIR PERSONAL OPINION.

If they want to be taken seriously, which I really hope they want to, as I’d love to keep discussing the pros and cons of WoW, GW2 and everything between heaven and earth, they need to stop doing that. People have different preferences. Some prefer the PVE in WoW, some the PVE in GW2. Some prefer the PVP in WoW, some the PVP in GW2. And that’s reality. GW2 isn’t worse or better. Neither is WoW. What we can talk about is what specific aspects we would prefer to see in GW2, because that is what is relevant. No one cares if they believe that WoW is a horrible game. Absolutely NO ONE. What we do care about is what they would like to see changed in GW2, or what they would like to see unchanged. What they think GW2 succeeds in doing, and what it could need improving on. That is fun to talk about. Both the praising and the hating of WoW has just become old, and it has no place on this forum unless it is to analyze GW2’s current state.

This thread has potential, and I’ll keep my eye on it. I just want people to get out of this evil circle that they seem so caught into, and start actually contributing instead of reducing every single thread into either mindless bashing of either WoW or GW2.

Please stop putting words in my mouth or alluring to what I mean based on what I didn’t say. I’m making a simple point regarding mechanics that were in guild wars 1. That were very effective game mechanics within 1.

As for WoW… WoW is built on skinner’s box design principles. Something the devs are not shy about admitting over at gamesutra. It makes for effective addicting design philosophies. So it is not unfair to broadbrush WoW with it being designed around something it clearly is designed around.

Bloody.8769:

You are bad in reading Muthax, that 12 million, was not the Chinese players ,Blizzard never included them in their official numbers as they pid their subscription model differently so there goes your argument ( and are you racist, what do you ahve against the Asian players playing it the way they want to?? ) . this is my last response as clearly you are one of those fanbois who resorts to ad hominem attacks to defend your latest love.

and btw Tusuri, you are the one who played the numbers card by suggesting your have the Legion to support the game with your playstyle… don’t use the card if you are gonna tuck tail and call it childish when it goes against you.

You are really, really confused.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Statistics

already in 2007 almost half of the player base was in Asia, that is the only market were they have grown. Today they are at around 2 millions between EU and NA. And about your stupid comment on Asians, if they don’t buy boxes NOR pay a monthly fee, how do you ‘count’ them??

To the rest of your post, really give up posting in forums because it makes you sound a lot more childish than you probably are

People need to stop comparing this game to WoW.

Psilocin.1435:

Stark.1350:

I don’t see any “major flaws”.

I’m gonna try to list a couple of flaws while trying to remain as neutral as possible.

- SPvP is currently lacking content. No rating system; hard to play with friends; lack of game modes; way too many pets, turrets, clones, summoned stuff (TG); animations aren’t clear enough to make out what is going on; some maps are generally unfun to play on because of design flaws (Ruins of Caledkfjdkfjs), sharks ruin underwater combat, people abusing the dip up and down thing in water so it takes 20 seconds to kill them.

- Orr is severly bugged and doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to. Events are either mindless zergs, or people don’t bother with them at all because the server has a low population. A lot of events never fail, so you only see half the content. Several skill points are bugged, hindreing people from Map Completion. Risen are everywhere, they have a lot of CC, a lot of health, which leads to frustration on the players part as it becomes tiring in the length.

- Personal story should’ve been tested extensively during beta. People are experiencing dialogue that never appears, there seems to be bugs on a lot of the different quests, blocking progress. I personally experienced this three times, which rendered three hours of gameplay worthless. Those are just the bugs, I won’t go into the quality of the personal quest here.

- WvW has some issues as well. Large queues, or lack of players. That depends on the server you play on, but some people have to wait up to several hours to get to participate, others don’t even bother because there server has such a low population that they will just lose regardless. If there are large battles going on, mobs and players turn invisible to reduce framerate lag(?), which leads to frustrating experiences like believing you are fighting one person, then realizing you are in fact fighting ten.

- Dungeons have no immediate or distinctive rewards. Tokens are a grind, you don’t get that “holy cow, that’s awesome, totally worth my time!” feeling when completing a dungeon. Just adding a 100% chance of getting a rare at the end of each run would suffice for now. At least then you know you have something definite to look forward at the end of the run, something which you can see and use immediately.

- TP is undeniably not optimal when it comes to anything. A lot of it is not inituitve. There are way too few advanced search options, which often leaves you having to filter through tens of pages to find that one thing you are looking for. A lot of people, me included, are experiencing an inability to use it at times or always. Sometimes, it just shuts down for me, and I have to restart my client to be able to use it.

- There are a lot of number tweaking that needs to be done, however, this is easy to fix so I won’t go into that.

None of these are “major flaws” – all these things are either matters of taste or minor flaws and can be tweaked and improved. “Major flaws” can’t be tweaked, a game with “major flaws” is totally kittened out of the box.