Being rewarded for being evil
While removing the party chat upon being kicked could be a design oversight, sometimes I feel like it was done to minimize the ammount of reports (kind of like how you can’t see names in wvw) … Maybe I’m just paranoid?
(edited by Waldir.2571)
This really is despicable behavior and people who do this should be banned for life. Though I think it’s hard for anet to properly monitor this.
~Sincerely, Scissors
It’s pretty sad that people abuse the system like that.
The other day people in an AC pick up group kicked low levels, and I told them off for being elitist kittens, especially around the holidays. I’ve seen better players than some 80’s, and if they can’t pick up the slack of a low level or be bothered to explain (the super easy) tactics, then they must not be very good. Then they kicked a second. I left group and started my own. Would be nice to be able to at least see the party chat and re invite the people who got suddenly kicked, too. It would also be nice to see who initiated the vote kick, as it could have been any of them.
Fort Aspenwood
The fact that someone got kicked because people were arguing that he had an ugly face should have been a clue from the beginning.
This is why 99% of the time, I run dungeons and fractals with my guild. There’s more accountability there, because you have to see people again tomorrow.
On the other hand, we’ve had four guild members and a pug in a dungeon and I’ve never seen a pug kicked in that circumstance, because we’re not that type of guild.
But yeah, I would be very reluctant to join a guild run from another guild…unless I knew the guild or at least one of the players.
I don’t think Anet will be able to correct this behavior ever. There is no way to tell if a player was kicked for a legitimate reason or a malicious one.
What you need to do is either start the instance before you pug a group or find yourself a supportive guild/community that does fractals. Pugging for fractals is one of the worst things you can possibly do as you will get either guild groups that will kick you at the end, or just a collection of really horrible people.
http://xunlaiheroes.wix.com/xhsa
That’s the reason why i always try to start the instance if i go with pugs.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
1. Fix the issue where the dungeon ends if the party leader is kicked.
2. Implement a “kick timer” and require at least 3 people to confirm a kick. That way, if you abuse your kick privileges you’ll get timer that will cap out at 3-4 hrs. So people who kick randoms every dungeon run in order to bring in friends or guildies will very quickly face a four hour timer between kicks. The timer will start to go down if you abstain from kicking. The lesson here is : stop abusing it.
People who get kicked often, for ya know, playing an unapproved class in a dungeon will gain kick immunity after suffering through several kicks for daring to play the “wrong” class. Maybe this way, people who have the audacity to play something like a necromancer or an engineer will get to use the LFG tool and actually complete dungeons.
Just a badly designed system. I would create a topic with suggestions and stuff (not that it would change anything) but will probably take few months until I can create topics.
The fact that someone got kicked because people were arguing that he had an ugly face should have been a clue from the beginning.
In a circumstance as described, I would have reported them then and there.
You made a mistake. I made the same mistake not long ago.
Your mistake is to play with a guild that you are not a member of.
If everyone is from different guilds and/or servers, then it’s free for all. But when you play with a group that has 2 or more party members who are from the same guild, this becomes their territory. If you also have 2 members from your guild in the party, then the first side to start a kick wins.
I was in a party in CoF P2 with 3 guild members from the same guild. They had no clue how to get Magg across. I offered to solo, all i got is a large amount of insults. After many deaths on their part, we managed to get Magg through.
Luckily, I did not get kicked out by them, but it was clear that if one of them had requested a kick, I would be. It really felt like being an alien in enemy territory. I /reported the person who verbally abused me. I dont think Arenanet suspends any accounts unless they have like over 50 reports against them, but I know I have not seen that person online on my blocklist for a couple of days now…they were probably rude to other people as well.
If you see a 2 people from the same guild in your party, add them to your friend list. If things turn sour, you move them to the block list. If everything goes well, just remove them from your friend list(i am sure you can recognize your friends from randomly recently added people).
I can tell you that I know some people who cross check party members with every party they join(just look at the last 4 digits and see if the match, if they do then look at account name) and leave if there is someone from their blocklist. Specially when they see 2 or more people from the same guild. It barely takes a few seconds to check who is in your party by the time everyone else gets into the dungeon.
Personally, I think the kick system is flawed in its inception.
Once inside an instance of any kind, kicking should not be allowed. Allowing people to kick (even with the protection of the instance owner and requiring more than one to kick) sets up a system where people can kick random players solely to sell slots or invite their buddies in for completion with no effort.
In open world, or WvW, kicking people has no real ramifications other than to kitten off some poor sot who got kicked, but the unethical way kicking is used in a lot of dungeons and fractals is simply wrong, in my opinion.
I feel like once you’ve entered an instance, kicking someone should have real ramifications, such as being unable to invite someone else (therefore decreasing your chance for a successful run,) or better yet, remove the “kick” function from all instanced material altogether.
Yes, there would be people who ruin a run on purpose, but that’s ever so much better than putting in hours to accomplish something only to have your slot sold to the highest bidder or given to a lazy guildie.
Fitting penalties for committing this criminal act:
1. Guild influence and upgrade wipes, angering their leader and having him show up at their front doors with a hatchet
2. An angel loses its wings
3. Precision airstrikes
4. Permabanned from the internet
5. Banishment to the moon, life support included if any of the world’s governments will donate money
6. Perma-banishment from Guild Wars 2 with all the involved party’s collective wealth transferred to the victim(s)
7. A dinner date with Scarlet
8. Trahearne
9. Agents who follow them around and bring crying babies to every theater they visit
10. An arrow in the knee
Fitting penalties for committing this criminal act:
1. Guild influence and upgrade wipes, angering their leader and having him show up at their front doors with a hatchet
2. An angel loses its wings
3. Precision airstrikes
4. Permabanned from the internet
5. Banishment to the moon, life support included if any of the world’s governments will donate money
6. Perma-banishment from Guild Wars 2 with all the involved party’s collective wealth transferred to the victim(s)
7. A dinner date with Scarlet
8. Trahearne
9. Agents who follow them around and bring crying babies to every theater they visit
10. An arrow in the knee
7 8 and 9 are just terrible. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemies.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
Spend a weekend unlocking the Explorable version for every dungeon you regularly do. When you want to run it, enter first, then start the LFG posting. Make it clear at the beginning that you started the instance. I usually say “Just FYI everybody I started this instance”. Even when I mess up badly, I’ve never been kicked (because they kick themselves too). Problem solved. If you don’t like the solution, you deserved to be burned. Take back the power. Saviorself.
This may not be popular, but what they should do is if you kick a player, you cannot invite another to take their place. You have to continue on with the remaining players. If a player leaves or is disconnected, then you can invite a replacement.
I agree that there need to be safeguards against wrongful kicks. But how do we protect rightful ones? If a guild member says “whoops, fire alarm, replace me if I’m not back in five minutes,” and you kick them 10 minutes later to get another guildie in, you don’t really want to be barred from inviting the replacement. Griefers could go afk to hold up the group, knowing they can’t be replaced.
I wish I had an idea for how to make it work other than “be excellent to one another.” I’ll never kick someone who is actively playing and isn’t being nasty, I’ll never boot someone to open a slot for a friend, and I sure wish no one else would either.
*nasty = full out deliberately offensive/racist/insulting, to be clear. I have a pretty high tolerance.
They could have a system which tracks encounter participation. Even if you got kicked you would get your share of the end rewards.
Along with other improvements.
The fact that someone got kicked because people were arguing that he had an ugly face should have been a clue from the beginning.
I agree, if they start kicking out people at the beginning for no reason to invite their guildies…there is about a zero percent chance they’ll let you finish that fractal. Better leave on your own before you waste time with them.
a couple better ways Anet could handle kicking someone from a party:
- can’t be done while in an instance
- kicking them also resets your instance progress
- when you kick someone, the recording of the last half hour of your experience is subjected to administrative review and if the kick was clearly uncalled for, you are banned for a week.
- when someone is kicked, they are moved to an instance that is identical to the one you kicked from. They can then recruit 4 more people and finish it off from there. potential problem: a guild repeats the final boss to something for rewards. solution to that problem: can’t get rewards more than once from any instance that was duplicated in this way (if you got them in the first instance, you can’t in any subsequent ones).
Mystic’s Gold Profiting Guide
Forge & more JSON recipes
^ that wouldn’t be a good idea.
1,2: Sometimes kicks are quite legitimate. Like a player with extremely bad attitude or someone afking through the whole thing.
4. If they just get sent to an identical instance, then we can just split up at final boss and each sell the path.
when you guys got kids… please spank them.
Someone should open a 3rd party website where you can input and retrieve information about other players. Had a bad experience? Put the names and what happened on the site so the next player can look them up and save themselves a lot of trouble.
[CDS] Caedas
Sanctum of Rall
The solution to your problem? Open the fractal and if they kick you they all get kicked and none of you get a reward.
This is the primary reason I don’t do fractals, or dungeons themselves for that matter, with any PuG’s and only with either guildies, ex-guildies or others I’ve played with whom I know will not have an issue with other party members and momentary lapses in competence.
Oh, just by-the-by here, when things start to get tense in your party chat with pugs, expand the chat window and screenshot it for reference to Anet, if they don’t have an accessible record of the chat already. That way you know what went wrong and who did what. It’s called covering your butt.
“Obtaining a legendary should be done through legendary feats…
Not luck and credit cards.”
a couple better ways Anet could handle kicking someone from a party:
- can’t be done while in an instance
- kicking them also resets your instance progress
- when you kick someone, the recording of the last half hour of your experience is subjected to administrative review and if the kick was clearly uncalled for, you are banned for a week.
- when someone is kicked, they are moved to an instance that is identical to the one you kicked from. They can then recruit 4 more people and finish it off from there. potential problem: a guild repeats the final boss to something for rewards. solution to that problem: can’t get rewards more than once from any instance that was duplicated in this way (if you got them in the first instance, you can’t in any subsequent ones).
These are all bad ideas. The first two prevent teams from or punish them for kicking problematic players (those who deserve to be kicked).
The third is almost impossibly impractical. It would require excessive staff to pull off. Additionally, how do you define what is and isn’t called for? If Anet decides that kicking based on level is wrong, for example, that would be a major hit to players who enjoy playing dungeons with full-80 parties.
The last is, as you mentioned, too open to abuse and the loophole sounds impractically difficult to fix. Even if you were to fix that, imagine the potential for abuse with path selling guilds who would sell that path and all “copy” instances at once.
A more pragmatic solution might be along the lines of:
1) Add “recent players” list.
2) Add a “Abuse of Kicking Feature” to the reportable offenses list.
3) Give the kicked player the dungeon gold + tokens – if they had been in the instance for over x minutes – when the party that they were kicked from finishes the instance.
You should have known you were going to be kicked after they kicked the one guy and invited a guildee. Your only protection is to be the first to enter the instance because it doesn’t look like Anet will ever do anything about this issue.
Ive always hated that it deletes your chat with the party kick it literally allows an entire party to harass you with 0 way to prove you were harassed via screen shot. Why it was ever allowed into the game in the first place is pretty silly and it should be addressed. It is almost as bad as players being able to block you than proceed to send massive walls of text of insults in pmz to you, and as you type Lol wut? back at them it simply says OFFLINE as the wall continues to grow from them. I doubt everyone else has had such immature ex-guild leaders in their Gw2 experience or had to deal with people like that to discover this….but it can be pretty annoying.
Big things in 2014 better be some real quality of life improvements for the game or i cant see it keeping attention of the masses. Hopefully anti-scum-bagging measures are added as well as friends/guild awareness to the offline auto-kicker. Ive had an entire instanced axed because the game auto boot my “offline” buddy who was having technical problems in an all friend/all guildy party, it ended the instance for all of us.
Being supposed to be a social game, GW2 party system is disgusting and anti-community. It promotes dirty play and on top of that ArenaNet won’t ever do a thing about both the system nor they punish the bad players and the griefers.
These threads come up once in a while. Though certainly most players have experienced in one form or another this sort of griefing and harassment, they are isolated enough that these threads will die before AreaNet even notices.
I have posted some ideas about how it is done to mitigate (but not eliminate) some of the griefing. Here they are again:
0. Pull down list of options / reasons to kick
1. Kick requires unanimous votes from all other party members not just one.
2. Kick requires unanimous and identical reasons to kick from all other party member.
3. If the kick initiate is not fulfilled by all party members, everyone who participated in the kicking cannot kick again in 1 hour or when party split up whichever one is shorter in time.
4. If instance opener leaves/dced/kicked the instance ownership is transferred to the next party member on the list.
5. A percentage participation credit for dungeon/fractal as follow
5a. 100+ hidden markers / flags are spread throughout the dungeon
5b. The placement is such that when a party reach the end all flags / markers will be checked.
5c. Once a first party member comes within distance of 5 feet of the marker, it will disappear and gives everyone in the current party one participation mark.
5d. At the end, everyone receives the reward proportional to the amount of participation marks they have.
This system will make sure that if you were there since the beginning you will get full reward. If a party of 4 guildies kick a pug to invite a guild member for the last boss, that guild member only receives 1% of the total reward.
Fitting penalties for committing this criminal act:
1. Guild influence and upgrade wipes, angering their leader and having him show up at their front doors with a hatchet
2. An angel loses its wings
3. Precision airstrikes
4. Permabanned from the internet
5. Banishment to the moon, life support included if any of the world’s governments will donate money
6. Perma-banishment from Guild Wars 2 with all the involved party’s collective wealth transferred to the victim(s)
7. A dinner date with Scarlet
8. Trahearne
9. Agents who follow them around and bring crying babies to every theater they visit
10. An arrow in the knee
Omagad, this is brilliant. 8 especially.
Personally, I think the kick system is flawed in its inception.
Once inside an instance of any kind, kicking should not be allowed.
This. Exactly this.
Really, how many people are going to join a group and sabotage it from start to finish? Maybe one or two people but I bet not even half as many as these kick-vote abusers. Even the majority of extremely anti-social people just want to finish it as quickly as possible and get their rewards.
There should be no kick option, but an auto-kick timeout would be good, which triggers at say 2-5 minutes inactive.
Griefers gonna grief I guess, but less so without a kick option. You could always report, just like you have to in open world. People are horrid there too but there’s no option to kick from Queensdale or wherever. You deal with it and/or report. Why shouldn’t it be the same in dungeons.
Fitting penalties for committing this criminal act:
8. Trahearne
What a good idea!
– after kicking, no replacement invites allowed.
Instead, you get a random member of Destiny’s Edge/The Pact.
I would take penalty number seven and become scarlet’s harley quinn <3
Personally, I think the kick system is flawed in its inception.
Once inside an instance of any kind, kicking should not be allowed.
This. Exactly this.
Really, how many people are going to join a group and sabotage it from start to finish? Maybe one or two people but I bet not even half as many as these kick-vote abusers. Even the majority of extremely anti-social people just want to finish it as quickly as possible and get their rewards.
There should be no kick option, but an auto-kick timeout would be good, which triggers at say 2-5 minutes inactive.
Griefers gonna grief I guess, but less so without a kick option. You could always report, just like you have to in open world. People are horrid there too but there’s no option to kick from Queensdale or wherever. You deal with it and/or report. Why shouldn’t it be the same in dungeons.
In the end, this might be the right idea. It’s easy to implement — at this point, we can be sure Anet sure isn’t going to spend any real effort fixing the issue — and if your teammates are so terrible, just take the loss and quit the party.
It would be nice if you could kick party members who have entered your party within the last 3 minutes — this’ll help people find the party composition they desire.
If I had a silver for each thread like this, I would be very rich :P
50/50 GWAMM x3
I quit how I want
Kicking from instanced areas is a bad way of implementing trolls in a game. It allows form more trolling than controlling.