Guild Wars 2

Bernie.8674:

snip

First, what I want to note is, while saying “bunch of dead” I may not be targeting one person, but I am targeting a group, which, if anything, is causing more ammo against me in a report.

What I was trying to point out is how extreme and far the ToS can go, if anet decides. Heck (oops, that could offend someone too), it decides on the person looking at the report how extreme they want to be, because of the “distress” part. Again, we don’t see how many accounts get reported falsely, banned or suspended, then have to appeal to another staff member with hopefully a different view on the case to get back in.

What I see people defending in this thread to attack all words that are offensive, and not look at the context (again, see my examples of targeting with “this” and “you”). So if someone uses the f word in a chat or saying “gay” or something, not targeting anyone or attacking anyone, then it looks like they can be reported. And if so, whats the point of the filter then?

if anything, lets look back at the OP’s post:

I know I’m going to be viciously attacked for saying this – probably a few private hate mails, but saying it anyways.

The OP is already making themselves a victim, without anything happening to them. So even trying to counter what they say, they are going to feel like a victim no matter what.

GW2 is my FAVORITE game – it’s top notch above any other MMO on the planet, but I’m sick and tired of all the nasty, sexual comments, all of the constant cussing and belittling other players on every map.

People have posted here this doesn’t happen as “constant” as the OP claims. If anything, the only time I usually see yelling or accusations in map chat is when SW fails cause of Red (usually). But then they go on to EVERY MAP. I mean, whoa, EVERY map? Like, that’s a lot of maps when you think about it, especially with the mega server. But its an over exaggeration, and everyone knows it. So why are we believing it?

I shouldn’t have to mute my Say and Map chat. Why should these people who do such things rule chat? There’s no end of the constant vulger language, cruel and hateful speech, and constantly, openly talking about sex.

Again, constant. Its always happening. These people RULE THE CHAT. More exaggeration. Somehow, I don’t think anet would say they have the “friendliest” community if any of this stuff was going on CONSTANTLY. If Riot came out and said that, THEN there would be a huge blow back and laughter. Anet can say it, because what the OP claims ISN’T happening constantly.

moving on to next post:

Yeah, everywhere I go, it seems I see it constantly. Seems like Say and Map chat are owned by the trolls.
How do I set a filter for the bad words without blocking all of Say and Map?

Didn’t even know the filter existed? I’m actually stunned by this. Maybe I’m wrong, but I could’ve sworn its auto set to “on”, and the player has to turn it off. Then we have to look at “bad words”. Do they mean the usual swears or what?

finally

I don’t like hearing vulgarity, and wouldn’t like it if I was in my 40’s, 50’s + or even as young as 10 years old. Just my preference, I guess

That’s fine, you don’t like hearing it. But once more we have to look at what’s vulgar to one person. And that can differ from someone else. So should we ask anet to interview every player and ask what is vulgar to them? Heck, I can consider apple pies vulgar because of a certain movie.

I dont get why this thread blew up like it did, when everything said is unfounded. I mean, CONSTANTLY? So I can log into the iron marshes right now, and it would be dominated by trolls, talking about sex, swearing, and I would be immediately assaulted verbally.

How did this hold water with anyone? And before you say “well, just cause you didn’t see it…” CONSTANTLY ON EVERY MAP.

Behellagh.1468:

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

We aren’t saying it’s all that common. Just occasionally.

The debate here is between those who believe it’s okay to offend because they never are and if you are too bad Vs the follow the rules you agreed to crowd.

Not necessarily.

Of course an actual attack on another (or group) is inappropriate and should be handled appropriately. The issue, for some of us at least, is what constitutes offensive when it comes to a word or phrase. Choosing to take offense at a collection of letters on screen (when they are not directed as an attack against anyone) is not a measure of whether or not the individual typing them is being offensive. If it were then anything that anyone could ever possibly say could be “offensive.”

And ANet in the end is the arbiter of that. All they ask is if you see something, report it and then ANet can make the final determination. If ANet thinks it’s offensive, it’s offensive.

For instance many don’t realize that the word Gyp/Gip is a slur. The group that it’s a slur to is tiny in comparison but a slur is a slur and all slurs should be treated the same. What’s not open to debate is if it’s a slur or not or if you shouldn’t mind if you do find it objectionable because of the “sticks and stones” defense.

And all of this goes back to the effort to make public chat, civil, as civil is defined by ANet.

Exactly. Everyone should report anything that they find offensive and Anet should expend the resources to research each and every one. None of the reports should be actionable because everything is potentially offensive to someone.

Texting short hand, leetspeak, the word “absolutely,” when the intent is not absolute, all offensive. Declaring that a word is a slur when it is not used that way is offensive to me (word meanings change over time-sinister no longer means left handed for example). Every post or comment ever made in game should be reported so that Anet can decide if they are offensive.

To clarify, I do differentiate between harassment/attacks on individuals/groups and using a word that someone else happens to not like.

yolo swaggins.2570:

2.) What someone has to say must have context and a target. Random bleating of distasteful topics contains neither.

3.) Regardless what you think, this is still the internet. Arenanet only moderates this corner. From what I’ve witnessed, Arenanet analyzes chats (much better than other MMOs) to make sure they have context and a target before they do anything to player accounts. Any further issues can be solved through player actions.

Now if the person is purposefully attempting to slander someone, then a great majority of the playerbase would agree with you, but do not lump the randomites and the slanderers together.

I’ll analyse the rest of your initial post now, considering we got the important stuff (about FoS) out of the way.

2.) Plenty of people have been banned/suspended for spewing hate speech into chat. Not necessarily hate speech aimed at a particular player, but hate speech aimed at a general group (e.g hate speech against gay people).

I’m also sure that “random bleating” of overly sexual or vulgar language gets moderated with consequences too, considering that these are also against the ToS and Gaile has already commented on such things in this thread and other threads.

3.) Yes, this is “the internet”. That doesn’t mean to say that Arena-net has no control over what users of their site and game say or do. In fact, they have full control over it and can do whatever they want to whoever they want. The ToS is a guideline and a contract for players. A-net kinda gives themselves a “punishment” loop-hole too:

“Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception. "

So, in other words, if somebody at Anet thinks you’re in the wrong, even if it’s not in black and white on the ToS, you can be punished by it.

Im also quite sure the filter is set to on by default.

Also yes I do like lumping the innocent with the guilty. Im a “watch the world burn” kinda guy. Ort atleast I became that way when I was forced to change my chars name. meanwhile mcbadname2015 is still running around what 1-2months later. Yea I’ll report anyone I deem to be “offensive” regardless of if it actually offends me.

Surprised nobody is screaming NARC for those that report.

Behellagh.1468:

Surprised nobody is screaming NARC for those that report.

I am very glad that they are not.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

“Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception. "

So, in other words, if somebody at Anet thinks you’re in the wrong, even if it’s not in black and white on the ToS, you can be punished by it.

I can see why its there in the first place, because they can’t possibly list every single offensive thing. When gaile said “excessive swearing is bannable” its only because of this clause they it is deemed as such. saying all the swear words in a line in map chat, not targeting anyone or anything, isn’t said in the ToS as being bannable, but this loop-hole makes it so.

The downside is, whoever is looking at the report, now has that power, and while a majority of people could see something as not offensive, that mod can see it and report it. Then the account holder has to fight to get their account back.

If anything, anet needs to check themselves on being offensive, as I don’t enjoy asura going around calling me a “bookah”.

I wonder if it has to do with the server Emiko is on. I have to admit I’ve heard quite a bit of swearing and got tired of it. So I set my filter to max.

Pickles.9436:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

“Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception. "

So, in other words, if somebody at Anet thinks you’re in the wrong, even if it’s not in black and white on the ToS, you can be punished by it.

I can see why its there in the first place, because they can’t possibly list every single offensive thing. When gaile said “excessive swearing is bannable” its only because of this clause they it is deemed as such. saying all the swear words in a line in map chat, not targeting anyone or anything, isn’t said in the ToS as being bannable, but this loop-hole makes it so.

The downside is, whoever is looking at the report, now has that power, and while a majority of people could see something as not offensive, that mod can see it and report it. Then the account holder has to fight to get their account back.

If anything, anet needs to check themselves on being offensive, as I don’t enjoy asura going around calling me a “bookah”.

Some might even find it offensive that a race in a video game are named for members of a current active religion (approximately one billion followers), which is a violation of GW2’s naming convention for players.

Ashen.2907:

Pickles.9436:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

“Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception. "

So, in other words, if somebody at Anet thinks you’re in the wrong, even if it’s not in black and white on the ToS, you can be punished by it.

I can see why its there in the first place, because they can’t possibly list every single offensive thing. When gaile said “excessive swearing is bannable” its only because of this clause they it is deemed as such. saying all the swear words in a line in map chat, not targeting anyone or anything, isn’t said in the ToS as being bannable, but this loop-hole makes it so.

The downside is, whoever is looking at the report, now has that power, and while a majority of people could see something as not offensive, that mod can see it and report it. Then the account holder has to fight to get their account back.

If anything, anet needs to check themselves on being offensive, as I don’t enjoy asura going around calling me a “bookah”.

Some might even find it offensive that a race in a video game are named for members of a current active religion (approximately one billion followers), which is a violation of GW2’s naming convention for players.

Lets not forget “Glaargh” as said by Taimi and scorned by Marjory for “Language”. And should we include Charr in calling others “Meat”?

Pickles.9436:

I dont get why this thread blew up like it did, when everything said is unfounded. I mean, CONSTANTLY? So I can log into the iron marshes right now, and it would be dominated by trolls, talking about sex, swearing, and I would be immediately assaulted verbally.

Probably not Iron Marches. I recommend Lion’s Arch or Sparkfly Fen right before and right after the Teq event. I also wouldn’t say “dominated,” but I personally see one or two infractions pretty regularly nowadays.

Pickles.9436:

How did this hold water with anyone? And before you say “well, just cause you didn’t see it…” CONSTANTLY ON EVERY MAP.

I don’t know what the OP’s experience is because I don’t play on their account and/or server. Personally I see this problem sometimes. For what it’s worth, I think ArenaNet does a much better job of policing their chat than Blizzard. I personally don’t think the problem is as widespread as the OP makes it out to be, but chat is by no means perfect, either. I am, however, puzzled by the number of players who are chiming in to defend the “rights” of players to act like seven year olds who just discovered that dictionaries contain swear words. It’s not like ArenaNet is asking for everyone to become vegetarians. Just be a little more selective with respect to word choices.

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Pickles.9436:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Crrrystal.6845:

I really like the number of internet lawyers and activists that come out for these kinds of threads.

That’s because a lot of people think they’re untouchable and can do what they want without any sort of repercussion… even though they signed a contract that has told them that they need to behave in a certain way.

I am an advocate of educating people about the ToS… perhaps if people knew about their boundaries (and what they mean) they’d actually stay within them. Not everyone, mind you, but some. If that means that another player’s game experience is improved, that’s excellent.

Yeah, I agree on educating about the ToS. Especially on their loop hole policy of “if we, anet, find it offensive, you are banned without say”. So, hey! Go about walking on eggshells now!

That’s not a loophole. That’s covered under the “your account is not yours, its ours” clause in the ToS. That’s a part of any game, EVER. You do not own your account. All accounts are property of the company.

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Pickles.9436:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

snip

Yeah, I agree on educating about the ToS. Especially on their loop hole policy of “if we, anet, find it offensive, you are banned without say”. So, hey! Go about walking on eggshells now!

It’s not about walking on eggshells- a player doesn’t need to walk on eggshells to keep by the rules.

Of course, the loop-hole policy is there, but it would only be acted on if something was deemed offensive. Like you already said, it would be impossible to write down every type of offensive language, so the loop-hole is there to cover every possibility.

You’ve got to remember that Arena net have to consider their own reputation. Being too heavy handed is just as bad for their reputation as ignoring all wrong-doers.

Ignore other players’ opinions of what could be considered offensive or not- try to put yourself in Arena Net’s shoes as to what they would consider as offensive, what they wouldn’t like to continue seeing in their game. For instance, making rude depictions with punctuation/symbols isn’t straight out against the rules in the ToS, but I’m sure that if a player did enough of it, A-net would give them a suspension.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Yes, its always an awesome agreement to sign to play a game, especially with the part of “we can change these rules whenever we want”

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Pickles.9436:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

snip

Yeah, I agree on educating about the ToS. Especially on their loop hole policy of “if we, anet, find it offensive, you are banned without say”. So, hey! Go about walking on eggshells now!

It’s not about walking on eggshells- a player doesn’t need to walk on eggshells to keep by the rules.

Of course, the loop-hole policy is there, but it would only be acted on if something was deemed offensive. Like you already said, it would be impossible to write down every type of offensive language, so the loop-hole is there to cover every possibility.

You’ve got to remember that Arena net have to consider their own reputation. Being too heavy handed is just as bad for their reputation as ignoring all wrong-doers.

Ignore other players’ opinions of what could be considered offensive or not- try to put yourself in Arena Net’s shoes as to what they would consider as offensive, what they wouldn’t like to continue seeing in their game. For instance, making rude depictions with punctuation/symbols isn’t straight out against the rules in the ToS, but I’m sure that if a player did enough of it, A-net would give them a suspension.

which is why, when you are trying to educate people on the boundaries, there really ARE no boundaries, with such a clause.

Pickles.9436:

Yeah, I agree on educating about the ToS. Especially on their loop hole policy of “if we, anet, find it offensive, you are banned without say”. So, hey! Go about walking on eggshells now!

As EAP said above, it is Anet’s game, their rules to interpret as they see fit and not a loophole. It isn’t about walking on eggshells, it is more about adhering to social norms. If you wouldn’t walk into a crowded shopping center in real life and say it loud enough for everyone there to hear it you probably should not say it in /map or /say.

It really is that simple and has nothing to do with trying to suppress people’s right to express themselves. It’s about having an overall sense of respect for a community that you are part of. The GW2 community happens to be made up of players from many different ideologies and belief systems. If you can act as a mature person and respect that you won’t have any problems. If you act like, “buhhh this is teh Internets! I can say whtevz i wants ,” you might run into problems.

Which is why arenanet should ban anyone who isnt a member of tumblr.

Pickles.9436:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Yes, its always an awesome agreement to sign to play a game, especially with the part of “we can change these rules whenever we want”

I’ve been reading your posts in this thread and I have to say, I think you are exaggerating the situation.

ANet has already said that the occasional F bomb is not enough to get a person in trouble. If that doesn’t, then saying people are afk here and your other examples are not reasonable ones. All ANet is asking is that you don’t use words in map chat that you wouldn’t use in a public setting full of strangers.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Pickles.9436:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Yes, its always an awesome agreement to sign to play a game, especially with the part of “we can change these rules whenever we want”

I’ve been reading your posts in this thread and I have to say, I think you are exaggerating the situation.

ANet has already said that the occasional F bomb is not enough to get a person in trouble. If that doesn’t, then saying people are afk here and your other examples are not reasonable ones. All ANet is asking is that you don’t use words in map chat that you wouldn’t use in a public setting full of strangers.

You’re right. I am exaggerating and on purpose too, because that is what this thread is based off of, an exaggeration, one that is actually being taken seriously.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

All ANet is asking is that you don’t use words in map chat that you wouldn’t use in a public setting full of strangers.

clearly doesnt live in brooklyn.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Any financial agreement where one party does not provide the details of what they require of the other party until after they have the other party’s money is questionable.

Even so, Anet’s (and MMO’s in general) ToS requirements are generally pretty reasonable in my opinion.

Pickles.9436:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Pickles.9436:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Yes, its always an awesome agreement to sign to play a game, especially with the part of “we can change these rules whenever we want”

I’ve been reading your posts in this thread and I have to say, I think you are exaggerating the situation.

ANet has already said that the occasional F bomb is not enough to get a person in trouble. If that doesn’t, then saying people are afk here and your other examples are not reasonable ones. All ANet is asking is that you don’t use words in map chat that you wouldn’t use in a public setting full of strangers.

You’re right. I am exaggerating and on purpose too, because that is what this thread is based off of, an exaggeration, one that is actually being taken seriously.

Well, then you’re not helping the thread by purposely derailing the discussion into debates with you about speech that you know is not a problem.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Pickles.9436:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Pickles.9436:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

borgs.6103:

In my country, we have a saying:
“I don’t like what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

ANet has a saying:
“You signed an agreement, a contact with us, that you would follow the rules or be suspended or banned and we expect you to keep the agreement you signed and quit trying to say you didn’t or that you did sign the agreement but you didn’t really mean it.”

Yes, its always an awesome agreement to sign to play a game, especially with the part of “we can change these rules whenever we want”

I’ve been reading your posts in this thread and I have to say, I think you are exaggerating the situation.

ANet has already said that the occasional F bomb is not enough to get a person in trouble. If that doesn’t, then saying people are afk here and your other examples are not reasonable ones. All ANet is asking is that you don’t use words in map chat that you wouldn’t use in a public setting full of strangers.

You’re right. I am exaggerating and on purpose too, because that is what this thread is based off of, an exaggeration, one that is actually being taken seriously.

Well, then you’re not helping the thread by purposely derailing the discussion into debates with you about speech that you know is not a problem.

So then what IS the problem? Again, we can look back at the OP and see its an exaggeration, it isn’t true and unfounded. All that was needed were a few posts saying “no, its not all the time or constant. If it does happen, report, block, move on.”

Instead, we are now into an 8 page discussion of…something…and basically ignoring what the OP first stated.