Guild Wars 2

Ran across a character named, “Yesimataco” standing around in Malchor’s Leap. The name made me smile, so I asked, “Are you a taco?” as a way okittennowledging the name.

He didn’t respond, but the player standing next to him said, “go away”. I apologized, letting her know I was just enjoying the name, but she didn’t reply. Guess she was just having a bad day.

Lots of folks chiming in here!

As to the OP’s comments… I don’t see behavior or language like it was described very often. When I do see it, it tends to be pretty isolated. In general, the worst things I see are pretend helpfulness like the answer “alt + f4” to a question and overly arrogant individuals. I do get a gold selling whisper from time to time too.

Overall though, I find we have a very nice and helpful community. Its quite refreshing really. I think its become even better with the megaserver stuff where I almost always see other players in maps.

Heres an idea…

Maybe if everyone just stopped being kittens, then we wouldn’t have to deal with this sort of thing at all. This goes for those being offensive, and those taking offense. Just a thought….

cainejw.7142:

As a gay man, I’m always humored by how many heterosexuals are so offended for me. I’ve had a lifetime of abuse and oppression. I can stand someone saying “gay.”

And in delicious irony, I once had someone use “the f word” (rhyming with maggot) to insult me. I responded that I was, in fact, one. I was banned from the game for a short period for hate speech. It was decided that I could not defend myself by devaluing the insult because the insult itself is deemed wrong by my heterosexual cultural superiors. Goodness forbid I take the insult and morph it into something to the point it loses its power. You know, like certain other words?

In speaking only for me, I don’t need your safe space. I don’t need to be protected from a word or words because you think they offend me. Take your benevolent sexism, racism, and homophobia somewhere else to swoop in and play the hero for someone else.

I’ve no need for your heroics. I do not need your projection onto me. You’re the one offended and made uncomfortable. I am not. You are using me, my experiences of oppression, and my population of people to justify your offense and your censoring response.

If needed, I can save myself, thanks.

I’m also gay and I don’t personally get very offended when someone says “that’s so gay” to emphasise something as lame/girly/weak because we’re so used to it, and I know that people keep saying it because everyone else does. It’s a term that’s become very casual.

When you think about it though, it’s actually quite a distasteful thing to say since you’re permitting the preconceptions of an oppressed group and worsening the situation. It should not be okay, and even if you’re not personally offended there are people that might be. There are definitely other terms you could use that does not insult anyone.

Please do not let anyone bring you down due to belligerence. I have not seen much belligerence in the chat lately as the GW2 team has been excellent in cleaning up severe toxic behavior.

Olvendred.3027:

cainejw.7142:

As a gay man, I’m always humored by how many heterosexuals are so offended for me. I’ve had a lifetime of abuse and oppression. I can stand someone saying “gay.”

And in delicious irony, I once had someone use “the f word” (rhyming with maggot) to insult me. I responded that I was, in fact, one. I was banned from the game for a short period for hate speech. It was decided that I could not defend myself by devaluing the insult because the insult itself is deemed wrong by my heterosexual cultural superiors. Goodness forbid I take the insult and morph it into something to the point it loses its power. You know, like certain other words?

In speaking only for me, I don’t need your safe space. I don’t need to be protected from a word or words because you think they offend me. Take your benevolent sexism, racism, and homophobia somewhere else to swoop in and play the hero for someone else.

I’ve no need for your heroics. I do not need your projection onto me. You’re the one offended and made uncomfortable. I am not. You are using me, my experiences of oppression, and my population of people to justify your offense and your censoring response.

If needed, I can save myself, thanks.

I equally don’t know you at all, but it’s difficult to miss the massive chip on your shoulder. It’s kind of obvious in the sweeping assumptions you make about the sexuality and intentions of everyone else.

In any case, the ‘safe space’ exists. For everyone, whether they want it or not. You agreed to it when you accepted the ToS. I think a lot of people, myself included, like that it does exist. ‘Saving oneself,’ all the time, is incredibly tiresome. And usually pointless, when dealing with anonymous people on the internet. This is why we have moderators.

So you will (and should) indeed be banned for using homophobic language, no matter how you identify. A game is not the place to fight battles to reclaim language, or to expect people to have to save themselves. If you’ve had a lifetime of abuse and oppression, you shouldn’t wish it on others. Especially not in their leisure time, which is generally supposed to be about having fun.

Thank you for telling me what words I’m allowed to say AND how I’m allowed to say them! You see, I was under this impression that I’m allowed to identify myself and control my own personal reaction to things. I was clearly mistaken. I should know better that it is up to you to decide what words I can say, who I can be, and what tone I’m allowed to use.

Or, you know, not.

You keep trying to protect me FOR me. Stop it. That’s benevolent homophobia. You are telling me that I am somehow unable to handle the stress of a word. You are telling me that I am so feeble that I want—no NEED—you or someone else to protect me, decide what is fun for me, and then police my tone based upon what you think is appropriate.

It’s pedantic and it takes away a large amount of my self-determination. I am allowed to not be offended. You are allowed to be offended. I am not allowed to force you to listen to any words you don’t like, but you have no right to demand that words be erased from the world because they give you a sad.

You have a sad? That’s your problem, sweetheart. You need to cope with it. You need to adjust to it. You need to process it.

I stopped being offended by a word back when the United States of America took away my right to marry and gain access to over 1,000 rights for over a decade. I stopped being offended by a word when I was beaten and spat on. I stopped being offended by a word when I was disowned by family and friends because I was born.

And I hate to inform you of this, but I won’t be changing my tone, how I speak, words I use, or my identity because you decided that it makes you go “:(”. I spent my entire life having people tell me who I’m allowed to be while simultaneously deciding who I am for me.

That chip on my shoulder?

That’s from people much like yourself who think they have the right to tell me who I can be, what I can say, how I can say it, and what or who I can identify as.

Now you have a wonderful day/evening!

^ Watch as the self-righteous tries to maintain his moral high ground and manufactured outrage against the very people he was being outraged ‘on behalf of’.

Words have no power. Being offended by a word is an invention of self-righteous people, because being ‘right’ is more satisfying than doing the right thing.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

In my opinion, this game has one of the worst communities I’ve seen in a long time. Maybe not as bad as diablo 2 but still… pretty bad especially in sPvP and here on the forums.

Pshh no way. I used to play WoW and I can tell you with 100% certainty GW2 is like an overly friendly church compared to it. That is pretty much what I hear from tons of people I know who came from WoW to GW2, “Wow the people are so friendly and willing to help”.

Behellagh.1468:

Donut.6914:

Lol you need to get over yourselves. There’s a profanity filter and a block option, if you can’t take people swearing, or talking about sex and drugs, then filter them out.

They’re not obligated to mind their manners around you. Remember, online actions and interactions are not rated by the ESRB.

It’s not there so players are free to use vulgar and profane language.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/Why-is-there-a-Profanity-Filter/first#post4436966

I think that’s pretty silly. Even teen rated TV shows are allowed some profanity. I think simple undirected swearing is fine in a teen rated game, and the profanity filter should be there for people who want the choice to not see it. WoW is also rated as a teen game and their characters frequently use profanity in their dialogue.

Matryoshka.1607:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

In my opinion, this game has one of the worst communities I’ve seen in a long time. Maybe not as bad as diablo 2 but still… pretty bad especially in sPvP and here on the forums.

Pshh no way. I used to play WoW and I can tell you with 100% certainty GW2 is like an overly friendly church compared to it. That is pretty much what I hear from tons of people I know who came from WoW to GW2, “Wow the people are so friendly and willing to help”.

Coming from WoW to GW2, yeah, this is the case.

My SOP for WoW:
/leave general
/leave trade
/leave whereeverelsepublicchathappens

My SOP for GW2?
Map chat is in a different tab for when I need it.
I’m far more willing to deal with the GW2 community than in other MMOs.

cainejw.7142:

Olvendred.3027:

cainejw.7142:

As a gay man, I’m always humored by how many heterosexuals are so offended for me. I’ve had a lifetime of abuse and oppression. I can stand someone saying “gay.”

And in delicious irony, I once had someone use “the f word” (rhyming with maggot) to insult me. I responded that I was, in fact, one. I was banned from the game for a short period for hate speech. It was decided that I could not defend myself by devaluing the insult because the insult itself is deemed wrong by my heterosexual cultural superiors. Goodness forbid I take the insult and morph it into something to the point it loses its power. You know, like certain other words?

In speaking only for me, I don’t need your safe space. I don’t need to be protected from a word or words because you think they offend me. Take your benevolent sexism, racism, and homophobia somewhere else to swoop in and play the hero for someone else.

I’ve no need for your heroics. I do not need your projection onto me. You’re the one offended and made uncomfortable. I am not. You are using me, my experiences of oppression, and my population of people to justify your offense and your censoring response.

If needed, I can save myself, thanks.

I equally don’t know you at all, but it’s difficult to miss the massive chip on your shoulder. It’s kind of obvious in the sweeping assumptions you make about the sexuality and intentions of everyone else.

In any case, the ‘safe space’ exists. For everyone, whether they want it or not. You agreed to it when you accepted the ToS. I think a lot of people, myself included, like that it does exist. ‘Saving oneself,’ all the time, is incredibly tiresome. And usually pointless, when dealing with anonymous people on the internet. This is why we have moderators.

So you will (and should) indeed be banned for using homophobic language, no matter how you identify. A game is not the place to fight battles to reclaim language, or to expect people to have to save themselves. If you’ve had a lifetime of abuse and oppression, you shouldn’t wish it on others. Especially not in their leisure time, which is generally supposed to be about having fun.

Thank you for telling me what words I’m allowed to say AND how I’m allowed to say them! You see, I was under this impression that I’m allowed to identify myself and control my own personal reaction to things. I was clearly mistaken. I should know better that it is up to you to decide what words I can say, who I can be, and what tone I’m allowed to use.

Or, you know, not.

You keep trying to protect me FOR me. Stop it. That’s benevolent homophobia. You are telling me that I am somehow unable to handle the stress of a word. You are telling me that I am so feeble that I want—no NEED—you or someone else to protect me, decide what is fun for me, and then police my tone based upon what you think is appropriate.

It’s pedantic and it takes away a large amount of my self-determination. I am allowed to not be offended. You are allowed to be offended. I am not allowed to force you to listen to any words you don’t like, but you have no right to demand that words be erased from the world because they give you a sad.

You have a sad? That’s your problem, sweetheart. You need to cope with it. You need to adjust to it. You need to process it.

I stopped being offended by a word back when the United States of America took away my right to marry and gain access to over 1,000 rights for over a decade. I stopped being offended by a word when I was beaten and spat on. I stopped being offended by a word when I was disowned by family and friends because I was born.

And I hate to inform you of this, but I won’t be changing my tone, how I speak, words I use, or my identity because you decided that it makes you go “:(”. I spent my entire life having people tell me who I’m allowed to be while simultaneously deciding who I am for me.

That chip on my shoulder?

That’s from people much like yourself who think they have the right to tell me who I can be, what I can say, how I can say it, and what or who I can identify as.

Now you have a wonderful day/evening!

You see, I literally just warned you about making sweeping assumptions about people’s sexuality and intentions.

Hi. I’m gay. I’ve been speaking for myself. The rest of your tirade is completely irrelevant, I think.

I explained why the ToS and moderators exist in my last reply to you. If your ‘personal reactions’ breach those, then I’m fully in favour of you being banned. No matter your identity or history. Trust me, the last thing I want to do is protect you. What I do want is a nice, fun gaming environment where I, and everyone else, can run around without getting kittened off all the time.

The PvE community in this game is great. They provide helpful tips for leveling, for builds, do Mesmer portals for puzzles, boss fights, rezzing downed players, etc…..

….however, the PvP community in this game is just as bad as every other one out there. Yes, I’m generalizing because the vocal minority amongst the PvPers are the kind of rotten apples that toxicly spews over the whole bunch, making it a cesspool of toxic rotten apples.

Chat filter?
Why should I have to filter chat? There is no problem with many words. kitten = Butt or Donkey. That is just the base example but most curse words are fine and dandy. The problem comes with those that are derived out of hateful discrimination and prejudices. A filter just blankets all the words into the asterisks so one cannot tell if the person is just calling them a butt or something far, far worse.

Also, Wanda Sykes said it best (really wish these were still running, on like every TV show!): https://youtu.be/LrJrw5ZZfRU

So this just happened today – again, in EOTM. I tellied to Heart of the Mists to gather my thoughts afterwards >_<

Turning chat off forever now (except the guild that I’m in that’s LGBT friendly cause no one says stuff like this ever, there).

I’m so sick and tired of this. Random pm’s from people saying I’m ‘kinda gay’ now? I don’t need this shyte.

#goodbyechat

Long discussion, coming in late, but here’s my opinion: turn off chat. block people. move on. it’s the internet. if everything triggers you, maybe you should start playing more single-player games.

Crrrystal.6845:

Long discussion, coming in late, but here’s my opinion: turn off chat. block people. move on. it’s the internet. if everything triggers you, maybe you should start playing more single-player games.

That is foolish advice. Nobody should be forced to turn off social aspects of a social, online game; especially more so when they’re required to communicate and interact with the community (i.e. boss fights, timers, questions, WvW commanders, etc.).

“It’s the internet” is a cop-out excuse that shouldn’t justify people being ignorant, disrespectful, prejudicial, and down right hateful. In fact, most of the time that excuse is used by those who are at fault and use it as a blanket excuse for their misdeeds on the internet in the first place. I cannot be judgement to say that is you, but judging by your callous tone and “don’t like it, leave” attitude I’d say you’re more harmful to this conversation than helpful.

Also, this is not “the internet”. This is a privately owned Intellectual Property (GW2 + forums) owned and managed by a private company (ArenaNet) through a system of rules and regulations. Their rules and regulations forbid being belligerent, vulgar, prejudicial, racist, hateful…oh why not just allow the words from the horse’s mouth:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

• While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Understand? This means that those examples provided of people spouting prejudices in such a way are breaking the game’s rules. Rules that everyone agreed to before even getting to the character creation screen (rules that also encompass these very forums).

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

2.) What someone has to say must have context and a target. Random bleating of distasteful topics contains neither.

3.) Regardless what you think, this is still the internet. Arenanet only moderates this corner. From what I’ve witnessed, Arenanet analyzes chats (much better than other MMOs) to make sure they have context and a target before they do anything to player accounts. Any further issues can be solved through player actions.

Now if the person is purposefully attempting to slander someone, then a great majority of the playerbase would agree with you, but do not lump the randomites and the slanderers together.

For what its worth Emiko, I think you’re right. I’ve seen things said (probably by 13 year olds) that I feel should not have been said in mixed company.

I’m a grown man who doesn’t personally take offense to what is said. (I don’t use a filter at all.) Yet I understand your point. I’ve often wondered how some of these chatters were raised saying the things they sometimes do.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

It confuses me how often people use this as some kind of excuse to allow them to say whatever they want.

When you make an account, you sign a contract by agreeing to the ToS. By breaking the rules (such as using vulgar or offensive language) you are breaching this contract and A-net has every right to remove you from the game.

It’s a “You don’t hold up our end of the bargain, we don’t hold up ours” kind of deal. They let you play the game, but only if you follow their rules.

Of course, getting your account permanently suspended doesn’t mean you can’t just buy a new one and start all over again.

first of all, it’s A-net’s game and their rules, when it comes down to it. but i find censorship in general to be a very slippery slope and when it comes to any discussion regarding “offensive” language, I side with Carlin, Hitchens and Fry and their general attitude of “aww, you’re offended. ok, and your actual point is?”

That said, 99% of the chat i’ve seen in game (in my “native” NA servers, despite being european) has been pretty in line with what common sense (that rare superpower) would dictate for public discussions. Aside from scammers and gold-sellers, i’ve only had to block two people for a short time because they were flooding LA chat with irrelevant (to me) nonsense. Those saying GW2’s community is toxic… have not been out there long, or far.

I’m happy to report vulgarity in names and chat. It’s not because I’m deeply offended, outraged, self-righteous, afraid for the children, triggered, prudish or trying to protect the marginalized from hateful speech.

I report it for the same reason I’ll pick up a piece of trash if I see it on the sidewalk or in my yard. I don’t like living in refuse, either in the real world, or in a fantasy game.

When I report sexual chat, drug references, racism, or any other speech that violates the ToS, I’m simply doing my part to tidy my little corner of Tyria.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

It confuses me how often people use this as some kind of excuse to allow them to say whatever they want.

It is part of the Constitution of the United States. They need no other reason.

2.) What someone has to say must have context and a target. Random bleating of distasteful topics contains neither.

Second if you analyze the part of the ToS I replied to, you still need a target for every single one of those terms to be valid and bannable.

The issue in this thread is that players want others to get banned for simply saying bad words and phrases. Never mind the context in which they are said or who they are directed at if there is any direction to be had. But Anet is not going to do it because they understand why context and target is important.

So “report, block, move on” is the perfect bit of advice anyone can give in this thread.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

No
Obligatory xkcd: Freedom of speech.

anabasis.7346:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

No
Obligatory xkcd: Freedom of speech.

Then block them. See how easy that is? The internet is amazing!

anabasis.7346:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

No
Obligatory xkcd: Freedom of speech.

Expanding upon this.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Freedom+of+Speech

yolo swaggins.2570:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

It confuses me how often people use this as some kind of excuse to allow them to say whatever they want.

It is part of the Constitution of the United States. They need no other reason.

2.) What someone has to say must have context and a target. Random bleating of distasteful topics contains neither.

Second if you analyze the part of the ToS I replied to, you still need a target for every single one of those terms to be valid and bannable.

The issue in this thread is that players want others to get banned for simply saying bad words and phrases. Never mind the context in which they are said or who they are directed at if there is any direction to be had. But Anet is not going to do it because they understand why context and target is important.

So “report, block, move on” is the perfect bit of advice anyone can give in this thread.

The US Constitution contains no provisions regarding, “freedom of speech,” as regards to private property. Your freedom of expression is protected from government interference (within limits) not guaranteed on someone else’s property. Just as freedom of speech doesnt allow you to yell cursewords in my grandmother’s living room, it doesnt allow you any rights on Anet’s property.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

It confuses me how often people use this as some kind of excuse to allow them to say whatever they want.

It is part of the Constitution of the United States. They need no other reason.

Freedom of speech doesn’t mean what you think it does. It doesn’t give someone the right to say whatever they want wherever they want. Let me give you a good real world example. I used to be a bartender. It wasn’t uncommon for some customers to overindulge and start spewing vulgar language that made other customers uncomfortable. If they would not stop they would be asked to leave. I can’t even tell you how many times someone started shouting about, “freedom of speech,” while security was escorting them out the door. Some would yell they were going to sue us while being drug out. We were never sued once. Why because freedom of speech doesn’t mean what they thought it meant.

Siphaed.9235:

Crrrystal.6845:

Long discussion, coming in late, but here’s my opinion: turn off chat. block people. move on. it’s the internet. if everything triggers you, maybe you should start playing more single-player games.

That is foolish advice. Nobody should be forced to turn off social aspects of a social, online game; especially more so when they’re required to communicate and interact with the community (i.e. boss fights, timers, questions, WvW commanders, etc.).

“It’s the internet” is a cop-out excuse that shouldn’t justify people being ignorant, disrespectful, prejudicial, and down right hateful. In fact, most of the time that excuse is used by those who are at fault and use it as a blanket excuse for their misdeeds on the internet in the first place. I cannot be judgement to say that is you, but judging by your callous tone and “don’t like it, leave” attitude I’d say you’re more harmful to this conversation than helpful.

Also, this is not “the internet”. This is a privately owned Intellectual Property (GW2 + forums) owned and managed by a private company (ArenaNet) through a system of rules and regulations. Their rules and regulations forbid being belligerent, vulgar, prejudicial, racist, hateful…oh why not just allow the words from the horse’s mouth:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

• While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Understand? This means that those examples provided of people spouting prejudices in such a way are breaking the game’s rules. Rules that everyone agreed to before even getting to the character creation screen (rules that also encompass these very forums).

The section you have bolded says nothing about vulgar language or ignorance.

It does mention embarassing or causing distress to other players though. Describing another player’s words or actions as, “foolish,” as you have done in this post certainly seems like it could fit that description…

yolo swaggins.2570:

Siphaed.9235:

stuff

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

2.) What someone has to say must have context and a target. Random bleating of distasteful topics contains neither.

3.) Regardless what you think, this is still the internet. Arenanet only moderates this corner. From what I’ve witnessed, Arenanet analyzes chats (much better than other MMOs) to make sure they have context and a target before they do anything to player accounts. Any further issues can be solved through player actions.

Now if the person is purposefully attempting to slander someone, then a great majority of the playerbase would agree with you, but do not lump the randomites and the slanderers together.

Nope. Freedom of speech is not a right here.

Gaile Gray Source
ArenaNet Forum Communications Team Lead
“Your “right to free speech” ensures that the United States government will not attempt to silence you. The “right to free speech” is not assured outside of the First Amendment restricting governmental interference; it is not a factor on a private game server.
Information for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech”

ANet can make and enforce any rules about speech that it wants.

@ OP,

Honestly, I’ve rarely seen such comments from folks in GW2 as I have always said that this is the friendliest community of MMO players I’ve seen. Even on the forums, where things can get heated at times, most people tend to be much more helpful and considerate of each other. From someone who used to play WoW and SWTOR, this place is like Sunday worship compared to those games.

Personally I report people as a way of trolling. I mean what is better than getting a person banhammerd? its the right way to troll.

Insult them yea they are upset.
but get them banned
Its golden.

We aren’t saying it’s all that common. Just occasionally.

The debate here is between those who believe it’s okay to offend because they never are and if you are too bad Vs the follow the rules you agreed to crowd.

While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated

So wait, if a player says something to me, that may not have any ill intent. like lets say, “hey, you need to be moving more often to not die. Standing still is wrong”.

If that makes me feel distressed, I have the right to report him, because he is making me feel bad about my playstyle?

In which case, if I continue to die over and over, and the group gets no where, that person could be feeling distressed, and report me.

In other words, your own personal play style can cause distress to others, giving you the right to report them.

Causing unwanted attention to other players. Oops, I guess i should be reporting all those who say “bunch of dead bodies not running back”. They are drawing unwanted attention to other players, which could embarrass them.

“bunch of afkers here” – that’s a double report there. Reporting the afk’s, and reporting the people who call them out.

Time to walk on eggshells now, even when playing a game.

@ Everyone attacking 1/3rd of my comment.

I see the purpose of my reply went completely over your heads so let me explain. Regardless of what you think, speech is a right. In terms of “you must respect the rights of others” speech, being a right, should be respected according to that rule. And people will use this right regardless of how loud anyone screams at anet to change it.

Telling anet to outright ban people for saying nothing of context or target fails to show respect of that person’s right.

Now… I still have 2.5 bits that nobody has challenged yet. Feel free to debate with me about that too.

Its more like what doesnt offend someone, somewhere?

Its one of the joys of being a minority.

@pickles

I actually report people like that. Literally lfg abuse.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Crimson Clouds.4853:

yolo swaggins.2570:

1.) Freedom of speech is a right (at least in NA servers. idk about the others :P).

It confuses me how often people use this as some kind of excuse to allow them to say whatever they want.

It is part of the Constitution of the United States. They need no other reason.

Here’s the actual text that you’re referring to:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

ArenaNet is not, to my knowledge, a member of Congress. Therefore the first amendment has no relevance. The more you know…

Behellagh.1468:

We aren’t saying it’s all that common. Just occasionally.

The debate here is between those who believe it’s okay to offend because they never are and if you are too bad Vs the follow the rules you agreed to crowd.

Not necessarily.

Of course an actual attack on another (or group) is inappropriate and should be handled appropriately. The issue, for some of us at least, is what constitutes offensive when it comes to a word or phrase. Choosing to take offense at a collection of letters on screen (when they are not directed as an attack against anyone) is not a measure of whether or not the individual typing them is being offensive. If it were then anything that anyone could ever possibly say could be “offensive.”

yolo swaggins.2570:

@ Everyone attacking 1/3rd of my comment.

I see the purpose of my reply went completely over your heads so let me explain. Regardless of what you think, speech is a right. In terms of “you must respect the rights of others” speech, being a right, should be respected according to that rule. And people will use this right regardless of how loud anyone screams at anet to change it.

Telling anet to outright ban people for saying nothing of context or target fails to show respect of that person’s right.

Now… I still have 2.5 bits that nobody has challenged yet. Feel free to debate with me about that too.

And it’s ANet’s right to limit speech in their game. The laid out the kind of speech that they deem unacceptable and request players who believe they’ve seen occurrences of this to report it so ANet can determine if the speech in question does go against their rules.

Just like if you start making other patrons in a restaurant upset with your “free speech” the restaurant can legally toss you out. And they don’t even need you to agree to a set of published rules. This game, like the restaurant is private property.

yolo swaggins.2570:

@ Everyone attacking 1/3rd of my comment.

I see the purpose of my reply went completely over your heads so let me explain. Regardless of what you think, speech is a right. In terms of “you must respect the rights of others” speech, being a right, should be respected according to that rule. And people will use this right regardless of how loud anyone screams at anet to change it.

Telling anet to outright ban people for saying nothing of context or target fails to show respect of that person’s right.

Now… I still have 2.5 bits that nobody has challenged yet. Feel free to debate with me about that too.

We should probably finish addressing this bit before moving on to the other 2.5.

Speech is not a right on someone else’s property. Never has been. If you go onto someone else’s property they may grant you the privilege of self expression but you bave no inherent right to speech or any other form of communication while there. Period.

If you are on someone else’s property and insist on expressing yourself in a manner disallowed by the property owner they can insist that you cease, alter your expression, or leave. Failure do abide by the property owner’s direction can result in a citation for you.

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

We aren’t saying it’s all that common. Just occasionally.

The debate here is between those who believe it’s okay to offend because they never are and if you are too bad Vs the follow the rules you agreed to crowd.

Not necessarily.

Of course an actual attack on another (or group) is inappropriate and should be handled appropriately. The issue, for some of us at least, is what constitutes offensive when it comes to a word or phrase. Choosing to take offense at a collection of letters on screen (when they are not directed as an attack against anyone) is not a measure of whether or not the individual typing them is being offensive. If it were then anything that anyone could ever possibly say could be “offensive.”

And ANet in the end is the arbiter of that. All they ask is if you see something, report it and then ANet can make the final determination. If ANet thinks it’s offensive, it’s offensive.

For instance many don’t realize that the word Gyp/Gip is a slur. The group that it’s a slur to is tiny in comparison but a slur is a slur and all slurs should be treated the same. What’s not open to debate is if it’s a slur or not or if you shouldn’t mind if you do find it objectionable because of the “sticks and stones” defense.

And all of this goes back to the effort to make public chat, civil, as civil is defined by ANet.

Ashen.2907:

yolo swaggins.2570:

@ Everyone attacking 1/3rd of my comment.

I see the purpose of my reply went completely over your heads so let me explain. Regardless of what you think, speech is a right. In terms of “you must respect the rights of others” speech, being a right, should be respected according to that rule. And people will use this right regardless of how loud anyone screams at anet to change it.

Telling anet to outright ban people for saying nothing of context or target fails to show respect of that person’s right.

Now… I still have 2.5 bits that nobody has challenged yet. Feel free to debate with me about that too.

We should probably finish addressing this bit before moving on to the other 2.5.

Speech is not a right on someone else’s property. Never has been. If you go onto someone else’s property they may grant you the privilege of self expression but you bave no inherent right to speech or any other form of communication while there. Period.

If you are on someone else’s property and insist on expressing yourself in a manner disallowed by the property owner they can insist that you cease, alter your expression, or leave. Failure do abide by the property owner’s direction can result in a citation for you.

Then why are you guys trying to push the property owner for more? Isn’t it the property owner’s right to moderate their property way they see fit or should it’s boundaries for leniency be restricted just like a person’s speech?

And that’s another point I want to put on the table:

Does the inconvenience of a minority justify modifying policy and inconveniencing many more? If OP had their way, around 30%+ of the population would be banned right now. PvP and WvW would feel a population hit aswell.

Why should everyone change because a group of players refuse to use the block tool anet has provided?

Pickles.9436:

So wait, if a player says something to me, that may not have any ill intent. like lets say, “hey, you need to be moving more often to not die. Standing still is wrong”.

If that makes me feel distressed, I have the right to report him, because he is making me feel bad about my playstyle?

You have the right to report him, but ArenaNet probably won’t take action unless he was being abusive about it. In other words, this is probably OK:

Please quit standing in the red circles on the floor during the cannon barrage phase because we’re wasting precious minutes trying to resurrect you instead of DPSing the boss.

This is probably not OK:

L2P you noob! GTFO the circles. If you don’t take off your ***ard helmet I’m kicking you!!!

It’s not necessarily what you’re saying, but how you’re saying it. By the way, this is irrelevant to the original post.

Pickles.9436:

In which case, if I continue to die over and over, and the group gets no where, that person could be feeling distressed, and report me.

And no action would be taken unless you could prove that the player in question was intentionally griefing you.

Pickles.9436:

In other words, your own personal play style can cause distress to others, giving you the right to report them.

You can report for whatever reason you want, but ArenaNet isn’t obligated to take action. Besides, frivolous reports are also prohibited by the Rules of Conduct:

You may not use the Guild Wars 2 reporting system to inflict harm upon or harass another player, to submit false reports, or to cause undue load on our servers. Individuals who abuse the reporting function will be investigated and will face possible account suspension or account termination.

Pickles.9436:

Causing unwanted attention to other players. Oops, I guess i should be reporting all those who say “bunch of dead bodies not running back”. They are drawing unwanted attention to other players, which could embarrass them.

No, because the player in question didn’t specifically mention another player. They’re simply stating that there are too many dead bodies so they’re leaving. To be honest, I couldn’t care less whether a player stays or goes, let alone why they do so. What do they want? A “Fair Weather Friend” achievement?

Pickles.9436:

“bunch of afkers here” – that’s a double report there. Reporting the afk’s, and reporting the people who call them out.

Again, no names are being mentioned. You’re calling attention to an action: AFKing. There is no rule against that. There’s a difference between “Report the AFKer in the corner” and “Report Player X for AFKing.”

Pickles.9436:

Time to walk on eggshells now, even when playing a game.

You’re condemning the entire system on the basis of a few extreme cases that are subject to manual review and will likely have no actual impact on the game. You don’t need to walk on eggshells. Just don’t be a jerk and you won’t have anything to worry about. For what it’s worth, I didn’t see anything in your post that I would expect ArenaNet to act on.

Behellagh.1468:

We aren’t saying it’s all that common. Just occasionally.

The debate here is between those who believe it’s okay to offend because they never are and if you are too bad Vs the follow the rules you agreed to crowd.

I disagree, as following rules with grey areas generally isnt a good idea. Because, again, you don’t even NEED to swear or say anything to cause distress, and I can be reported for just playing the game. I may even not have had a malicious intent behind the action, but someone was hurt by it, and is grounds for reporting.

Here’s what I’m okay with: “Man, this (insert swear) stinks!”
Here’s what’s not okay: “Man, YOU (insert swear) stink!” That is reportable imo. If the first sentence offends you, why isn’t the filter turned on? Oh, but then we have to fall back on words that AREN’T filtered. Then we have to look at words that have more than one definition, and some poor anet employee is going to have to add words from Urban Dictionary. Because its not filtered, someone could see it as a different definition and be offended.

And then we are back to the whole “distress” issue once more. Its such a grey area part because people can get distressed about the littlest things. And if that person who felt “victimized” still sees the other person playing, then they feel cheated that no action was taken against.

DonQuack.9025:

Its more like what doesnt offend someone, somewhere?

Its one of the joys of being a minority.

@pickles

I actually report people like that. Literally lfg abuse.

Oh, so nice. It must be fun tossing the innocent and the guilty under the same label each time.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Nope. Freedom of speech is not a right here.

Gaile Gray Source
ArenaNet Forum Communications Team Lead
“Your “right to free speech” ensures that the United States government will not attempt to silence you. The “right to free speech” is not assured outside of the First Amendment restricting governmental interference; it is not a factor on a private game server.
Information for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech”

ANet can make and enforce any rules about speech that it wants.

Yes. How they want. Not how you want.

Mother kitten poodle chic cuteness kittens sweetness puppy cute… awww.. kitten i give up!

Who would have thought such a basic common sense thing of being civil, polite and respectable of others could be such a hard thing? Has this community gotten so bad that they have to thrift through the US Constitution and ANets TOS to try and justify why its just fine and dandy to verbally abuse, wish harm and ill will, or berate others lifestyles? Its a just a video game, play , have fun, be nice!

yolo swaggins.2570:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Nope. Freedom of speech is not a right here.

Gaile Gray Source
ArenaNet Forum Communications Team Lead
“Your “right to free speech” ensures that the United States government will not attempt to silence you. The “right to free speech” is not assured outside of the First Amendment restricting governmental interference; it is not a factor on a private game server.
Information for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech”

ANet can make and enforce any rules about speech that it wants.

Yes. How they want. Not how you want.

Firstly, I’m pleased you’ve learned something today about the right to freedom of speech. Use this knowledge to empower you.

Secondly, I think the majority of people in the thread are talking about people using language that actually breaks the ToS. Reptative swearing, racist/sexist/homophobic attacks and all manner of other things are against the ToS.

I’ve yet to see somebody complain in this thread about language that is allowed.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Nope. Freedom of speech is not a right here.

Gaile Gray Source
ArenaNet Forum Communications Team Lead
“Your “right to free speech” ensures that the United States government will not attempt to silence you. The “right to free speech” is not assured outside of the First Amendment restricting governmental interference; it is not a factor on a private game server.
Information for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech”

ANet can make and enforce any rules about speech that it wants.

Yes. How they want. Not how you want.

And? Your point? It’s always been their ballpark and their rules. Follow their rules or get told to leave.

uhohhotdog.3598:

I wish people would move into the 21st century and stop getting so offended over “swear” words. And it’s really a minority of people that are offended but that’s still far too many.

Maybe they could while they are moving here learn how not to be such intolerant kittens…

Just because you want something doesn’t mean you get it. If you don;t like someones creed, color, religion, way of life, culture etc you have that right. You do not have the right to disparage them or other groups simply because you are exercising freedom.

Freedom is only free if people are responsible inside of the group social reality.

What one does in private is not of concern.

If you act intolerant in life expect to be treated like the worst among us.

I learned these lessons not always acting as I should as a boy and hardship came. Then I learned to deal with others in a way that we have to if we are ever to stop fighting and acting like animals.

To those that can’t deal with it learn and that is both sides.

Most people need thicker skin while also at the same time those that cause that need should smile more

yolo swaggins.2570:

Then why are you guys trying to push the property owner for more? Isn’t it the property owner’s right to moderate their property way they see fit or should it’s boundaries for leniency be restricted just like a person’s speech?

No one is trying to push them for more. They are just asking for the Rules of Conduct that were already laid out by ArenaNet themselves to be enforced. As you yourself stated, ArenaNet has the right to moderate their game in the way they see fit.

yolo swaggins.2570:

And that’s another point I want to put on the table:

Does the inconvenience of a minority justify modifying policy and inconveniencing many more? If OP had their way, around 30%+ of the population would be banned right now. PvP and WvW would feel a population hit aswell.

Absolutely it’s justified. Otherwise mob rule would control everything. You’re also belittling the point when you refer to harassment and hate speech as “inconvenience.” The game’s culture affects the entire player experience. Having to click an extra box every time you post an auction is inconvenient. A barrage of references to kitten and racial slurs is beyond inconvenient.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Why should everyone change because a group of players refuse to use the block tool anet has provided?

No one is refusing to use the block tool, but the nature of the tool is that by the time it’s used the damage was already done.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Then why are you guys trying to push the property owner for more? Isn’t it the property owner’s right to moderate their property way they see fit or should it’s boundaries for leniency be restricted just like a person’s speech?

Because asking for something is very different than declaring that you have the right to decide what is and is not acceptable on someone else’s property.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Why should everyone change because a group of players refuse to use the block tool anet has provided?

Because the owners of the property say so.