Guild Wars 2

GW2 is the only MMO I’ve played that allows every character to resurrect a dead fellow player.

It is also the only MMO that allows you to do so while in combat.

In my opinion this has led to some very undesirable side-effects:

1. Cheesing Bosses – In most games when you wipe on a Boss you get up and try again. But in GW2 players can often drag-out encounters for ages allowing their fellow player to resurrect the dead. This can make Boss fights last forever and is mostly not good for the game as it makes it hard to really fail.

It also resulted in plenty of cheese tactics for various bosses, especially in the Fractals that evolve around dying and then resurrecting dead players. The fact that most of these encounters were changed or mechanics altered to mitigate this kind of behavior shows that it is not in the devs intent for players to cheese-rezz their way through encounters.

Iirc it was only thanks to one of these tactics that people were even able to reach the very high fractal-levels early on, before this too was patched.

2. Laziness during Boss-encounters – While this has always been an issue, the recent Tequatl revamp highlighted this issue. Players have become so accustomed to constant and easy rezzes that they don’t bother to respawn in most encounters. This is problematic in Tequatl due to his strict DPS requirements.

I think this type of behavior does not need to be encouraged. It would also help make open-world bosses more imposing if there’s at least the chance you may have to waypoint.

3. Unkillable zergs – This is the biggest and most game-breaking side-effect for me personally. Every WvW players knows that situation where you have a massive blob kicking in your door and despite many Arrow Carts and solid defenses, the Zerg just continues to resurrect his dead comrades.

This makes, “taking a bite” out of a Zerg practically impossible, as a resurrection by 5 players is a matter of seconds. And this contributes to the futility of outmanned defense because the only way to wipe a zerg effectively is with one of your own.

These three reasons are why I think resurrections should only be possible out of combat. I think it would improve every aspect of the core game and discourage unintended behavior.

PS: Please note that I am talking about the resurrections of completely dead players here, not “downed” players.

Dee Jay.2460:

2. Laziness during Boss-encounters – While this has always been an issue, the recent Tequatl revamp highlighted this issue. Players have become so accustomed to constant and easy rezzes that they don’t bother to respawn in most encounters. This is problematic in Tequatl due to his strict DPS requirements.

I think this type of behavior does not need to be encouraged. It would also help make open-world bosses more imposing if there’s at least the chance you may have to waypoint.

In the case of open-world encounters, I would like to see a system put in place that if you lay dead for more than, say, 15 secs without any HP regen from someone rezzing you, then you lose credit for the encounter, get no reward and you are no longer a factor in the event (thus bosses not staying scaled up due to corpses who refuse to wp).
In most cases, in the time someone lays there dead for someone else to have an opportunity to try and revive them, they could have WP’d and ran back twice over.

Are we talking about downed or dead? Just to clarify. I know you said dead, but a lot of people still say dead when refering to downed players.

1) Dead. I agree, but don’t really care. If somebody dies in a boss fight I won’t res them. The DPS loss it will take usually isn’t worth having the extra member. If 3 people go down and the boss is still 50%+ HP, I’ll either wipe or kite while somebody else reses.

2) Downed. If by chance you were talking about being downed. It should stay in.

I fully support being unable to res dead players while in combat. Heck while fighting is going on around you all together(as being out of combat is quite easy)

Ethics.4519:

Are we talking about downed or dead?

In what I said, I was referring to actually dead. Downed players shouldn’t be penalized for trying to get back up, and they are far more easy for other players to get back up than dead ones.

How about instead of removing it, add skills that cause some sort of Frozen Ground effect from GW1?

Dead can’t revive, Downed revive at a reduced rate and can’t activate skill 4.

So from your view if it isn’t perma death it’s care bear. Why are you playing this game when perma death games are available?

You have no idea what care bear means. He was referring to Pve situations which permanent death or not, is all 100% care bear.

It’d make sense if they cancelled ressing in wvw or spvp, but not in pve.

Eliminate/attenuate spike damage that 1-shots players regardless of gear. Get rid of downed state—players go straight to dead.

I’d be all for this.

Bismuth.3165:

It’d make sense if they cancelled ressing in wvw or spvp, but not in pve.

This! It needs to get out of wvw.

If you have 15 vs 45. The 45 can just run circles and pick up their dead, even if you are superior in combat than they are.

in blob v blob, you almost never “wear down” your opponent unless it’s in regards to siege. You usually either crush them with a quick burst, or lure them somewhere and rush them.

I disagree with this very much in PvE, however in WvW and PvP, yes please. ESPECIALLY in WvW.

I disagree with it completely, its in there for a reason. If anything needs to be removed is the kitten stealthed stomps.

skullmount.1758:

I disagree with it completely, its in there for a reason. If anything needs to be removed is the kitten stealthed stomps.

Even as a mesmer I’m fine with this.

If they want to waste stealth, stability, and quickness on a stomp, let them.

God yes please. It is one of the main factors that make combat and pve boring.

It makes stacking in place profitable.

It makes zergs profitable.

It promotes glass cannon berserker meta.

It is why stealth stomps annoy you so much.

Just remove it already and make the game better. Anyone who is defending downstate is probably abusing it. Remove it from pvp spvp pve, get rid of it.

GW2 is not the only MMO that allows players to rez dead players in combat. In both PvE and PvP.

DAoC with the RvR that so many games (including GW2) have tried (unsuccessfully in part to copy), had healers that could rez fellow players in combat. Both PvE and PvP.

I can’t ever remember someone complaining about the ability to rez players and how it was unfair or a bad mechanic.

Of course, that was back when dying meant you lost exp. And leveling wasn’t a give-away. Also meant, in RvR, you couldn’t just waypoint a few meters back and get back into a fight. There was a huge delay waiting for a timer for an “event” which transported groups of players.

ANet has corrected the issue in dungeons.

Boss encounters can/will end up failing if players do not waypoint back. This should be a learned tactic.

WvW – teamwork versus strategy is in play here. If you remove in-combat rez for zergs, you also remove it for every situation which is the reverse. If you’re out with a small group, getting every man up is a necessity.

In regards to WvW, I’d like to see death being unrezzable because it would change the mechanics of group fights. As mentioned above, it gives a small but skilled group a chance to wipe out a larger group. That is a real battle. If the dead can’t be rezzed, the groups only option is to run back to the fight from their rez point as quick as possible.
Adding the option to rez when out-of-combat is completely acceptable, and a good solution.

Not quite sure I agree with doing that in PvE, but with WvW it would be a great change.

There’s opportunity cost to doing so, no reason to remove it.

It needs to go in WvW and dead should be forced to respawn after a set amount of time like 3-5 minutes

I don’t know what MMOs the OP was playing but in 100% of all previous MMOs I used to play the healer/cleric/whatever could use their resurrection skill whenever they wanted. It had a cooldown tho. One of those games had a 20 second single target res skill, and there was a mass resurrection skill with a massive cooldown. Since there is no holy trinity here, the only way to compensate for res. removal would be to make those rallying skills affect the dead (war. banner, ele. glyph, guardian sigil)

I’m not gonna defend nor agree with those who won’t use a WP! Waypoints can be really far away especially in GW2 where WPs can get contested and the nearest is on the other side of the map.

For starters I’d like some colour differentiation between downed and defeated players.

Then prioritise down players over defeated players. At least for pve, once players realise they aren’t getting rezzed they’ll buck up and actually start waypointing.

MrIllusion.5304:

For starters I’d like some colour differentiation between downed and defeated players.

Then prioritise down players over defeated players. At least for pve, once players realise they aren’t getting rezzed they’ll buck up and actually start waypointing.

Priority of downed vs dead would help a tremedous amount in Teq.

Bismuth.3165:

It’d make sense if they cancelled ressing in wvw or spvp, but not in pve.

It does in different aspects of PvE. Look at how many people will just lay dead at Tequatl, Fire Elemental and so on. Bosses still with 75% HP and people lay dead expecting others to survive themselves and revive them. When all they’re doing is scaling the event up and having others do it for them. WP and run back.

I always hated being forced to lay dead on the ground for a substantial amount of time, being useless while watching my teammates fight the boss. It’s a stupid idea of mechanics. Particularly in a game like GW2 where can you die to silly one-shot mechanics without having done a whole lot wrong. No thanks. Want to play hardcore? Get a group of like-minded players and agree not to make use of the resurrect skill until the fight is over. Problem solved. I don’t know why people always need to force their idea of how the game needs to be like on others.

combat mode rez is working as intended.
there is no need to remove it.

move along now.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

combat mode rez is working as intended.
there is no need to remove it.

move along now.

PvE and SPvP are arguable, but can anybody really say with a straight face that rezzing was meant to be used in WvW it currently is? No they can’t.

Eh.. no thanks.

Casual players expect to be resurrected because their mistakes are swept under the rug. Other people cover their mistakes.

In the absence of in-combat resurrection systems; players are held accountable for their performance and their value to the group.

Casual players cannot stand failure. They expect to be rewarded with a medal just for participating.

MrRuin.9740:

Bismuth.3165:

It’d make sense if they cancelled ressing in wvw or spvp, but not in pve.

It does in different aspects of PvE. Look at how many people will just lay dead at Tequatl, Fire Elemental and so on. Bosses still with 75% HP and people lay dead expecting others to survive themselves and revive them. When all they’re doing is scaling the event up and having others do it for them. WP and run back.

Then they will still be laying there, waiting for a ress after battle. Waypointing costs money – that’s why lot of people do not consider it unless they have no other option.

Also, There were skills for fast ressing in GW1. Don’t remember this ever being a problem. Maybe just introduce a short debuff that makes you go to dead straight away (and unressable until it passes) if you were ressed from dead.

Mind you, if you make it so it’s impossible to be ressed during a fight, then all harder battles will need to be reevalued and their difficulty toned down to compensate.

coglin.1867:

Ethics.4519:

If you have 15 vs 45. The 45 can just run circles and pick up their dead, even if you are superior in combat than they are.

If you were so superior in combat, you would prevent them from reviving there friends. I can train a monkey to kill 2 or 3 in situations in which your outnumbered 2 or 3 to one. If your out numbered and do not show the battlefield awareness to prevent revives, then your not truly displaying superior combat. Clearly your referring to WvW, and there is more to WvW then killing a few players. It is an entire map in which you work together to do more then kill another group. It is extremely anecdotal to suggest limited examples that do not encompass the entire nature of a game mode and demand they restructure it to conform to your limited scenario

Yeah and if your character stats scaled off bullcrap you alone could probably handle twice that and stop them from rez-spamming.

I think this is a non issue in PvE. ( I wont comment on sPvP or WvW since I don’t play them)

In Daoc healers could revive all they wanted to as long as they had mana, and didn’t have aggro. If the healers were rezzing/healing people like maniacs in a close fight, we simply said good job keeping everyone up, and nice teamwork.

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

combat mode rez is working as intended.
there is no need to remove it.

move along now.

PvE and SPvP are arguable, but can anybody really say with a straight face that rezzing was meant to be used in WvW it currently is? No they can’t.

straight face: yes, it is meant to be used in WvW.

strength in numbers.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

combat mode rez is working as intended.
there is no need to remove it.

move along now.

PvE and SPvP are arguable, but can anybody really say with a straight face that rezzing was meant to be used in WvW it currently is? No they can’t.

straight face: yes, it is meant to be used in WvW.

strength in numbers.

Strength in numbers, yes

Invincibility in numbers, no

I’ve seen six arrow carts and AoEs from a good 20 people all concentrating on the same tightly clustered 80 man zerg, without a single person dying; going down yes, but only to be rezzed instantly and then shamble out of range. Once a zerg gets to a certain number, the rez mechanic becomes literal invincibility. Anyone who says that was intended is either completely ignorant of game design or abuses it themselves and wishes to continue doing so.

Even less healing, great….

They just need to add more risk reward. The feature can be made into an interesting one if the choices around it was more meaningful.

- Whilst trying to rez someone, you take more damage. (2x? 3x?)
- More group defensive support skills, like shields, projectile defense, etc.
(While we’re on the topic, rally should only rally one downed ally, the nearest one.)

This means blindly trying to rez someone will get you instantly killed to an AOE or whatever. But teammates can CC melee enemies, block projectiles, or cast shields, to buy enough time to rez teammates.

With this design, 1-hit kill mechanics actually becomes somewhat beneficial, since it means team coordination is required to rez people. So all-out DPS teams might end up losing more time due to deaths than balanced teams.

I think you overlook the fact that Anet EXPECTS us to res during some boss fights. This allows them to give the bosses 1 hit mechanics (or close enough to it depending on armour worn) to make them “seem” powerful. So it becomes like a game of musical chairs. Can we res all of our teammates in time and get their HP back up before he downs the next etc….

Removing the res option this far into the game would only make it a complete mess….

Edit:

Ok I admit I wrote this before getting more than 75% of the way through the OP so,

“PS: Please note that I am talking about the resurrections of completely dead players here, not “downed” players.”

I could live with this.

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Conncept.7638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

combat mode rez is working as intended.
there is no need to remove it.

move along now.

PvE and SPvP are arguable, but can anybody really say with a straight face that rezzing was meant to be used in WvW it currently is? No they can’t.

straight face: yes, it is meant to be used in WvW.

strength in numbers.

Strength in numbers, yes

Invincibility in numbers, no

I’ve seen six arrow carts and AoEs from a good 20 people all concentrating on the same tightly clustered 80 man zerg, without a single person dying; going down yes, but only to be rezzed instantly and then shamble out of range. Once a zerg gets to a certain number, the rez mechanic becomes literal invincibility. Anyone who says that was intended is either completely ignorant of game design or abuses it themselves and wishes to continue doing so.

Couldn’t they just do something with the downed penalty instead? Currently, you can essentially get downed twice before you get instantly killed. They could change that, for example have it reduce your maximum HP.

And honestly, I wish the downed penalty was visible to your enemy, that would add a strategic element to it. And it would actually make Thieves useful at something.

They can get rid of incombat rezzing when they get rid of boss insta kills and make meleeing bosses more viable.

Until then rezzing during a boss fight is a perfectly legitimate way to play the game.

Of course I also played L2 for a number of years and there were plenty of bosses that were actually designed around requiring healers to resurrect the rest of their party mutliple times during a boss fight that would last for hours.

Just have what most games have, seal off the boss room with a barrier after 15 seconds so if you die. Because just stopping reviving during combat doesn’t really work in a way because it’s hard to define the line in which players are in or not in combat.

The best way is to, enable waypoints again during combat, seal off the boss room during fights, disable reviving completely dead players.

Just removing rallying off of kills (Excluding PvE) or reduce it to 1 rally per 5 minutes and restrict revivers to 1 per downed person and that’ll fix the mechanic. Downed state is a good idea and chance to fight back but it shouldn’t give you quasi invincibility. As for resurrecting dead people do the same. 1 per person during combat unless someone has a rune/Sigil or trait that says otherwise.

Do this and a lot of the games balancing issues will be solved without requiring a re-think of to many mechanics. Stacking becomes far more risky in PvE and defensive armour becomes a tad more viable. In WvW the Invincable blob is gone, Issues with golems dimish (But are still there just reduced) and people suddenly have to think far more tactically. As for PvP. Less resing and rallying means faster player and something which more closely resembles the Esport Anet wanted

I can’t say for Spvp or WvW as I do none of the former and not enough of the latter. In PvE, dungeon runs especially, there have been countless times where team mates die (not down) and I usually have to get them back up again. And quite a number of such happens with me being last person standing and somehow trying to get the rest back up.

And to be perfectly honest, I love it. And yes I’ve been dead a few times as well with people bringing me up, so not to say i just love showing off that im always the one left standing. My personal opinion is that mistakes is something we learn from, yes, but also something that with some effort we can recover from. I enjoy that some times, those rare times, on the brink of failure, we can come back up again and somehow win through. For that in itself is a challenge. Seeing people drop one by one with no chance of them getting back up again is boring for me. It feels like an…outdated concept.

So I’ll leave the pvp and wvw aspects to ppl who know better, but i love this mechanic in PvE.

You do realize that we used to be able to way point while combat was still going on. Get off your high horses. In most fights if we go down we hopefully get a rez from a team mate and move on. If people start dropping like flies there is very little you can do to get rez off. If you feel there needs to be more risk reward to this system then make the content drop better loot. You guys are suggesting making something not meant to be terribly difficult more difficult for what reason? If you are having issues getting a thrill go do some high level fractals but leave the general dungeons alone.

This care bare vs elitist bullkitten is tired now. So what you can rez in combat takes too long in the first place for anyone to really give 2 kittens. Why not make threads about the numerous bugs that still exist cross class or PvE balance. This has to be one of the lest essential things to complain about.

Ohh and do not worry kittenting on some casuals (most regular dungeons do not even have this issue), and new players at least in this way is not something of a priority.

The opener utterly fails to show that players who aren’t masochists will accrue any benefit at all from removing in combat rezzes.

I would support to remove downed state (not dead ress tough since they are so slow they don’t affect much pvp) but the problem is the absurd damage this game has in pvp, so before working on downed state they should work on damage output and combat system generally

There are no benefits whatsoever to removing the ability to revive someone in combat. Stop trying to make things worse.

Completely dead players should not be resurrectable at all, and only given the option to waypoint. When it comes to PvP, if you’ve killed them completely, they should be dead. In PvE, in the open world, dead players are simply leechers while in groups it’s simply the case of bad players. There’d be a higher risk and as a result, a higher incentive to save downed players without getting them killed (like those in dungeons that drag the boss on top of the downed guy and get them killed because they want rez credit or whatever).

I’d even put in a forced waypoint to whatever was closest if one wasn’t selected within 60s.

If you could still rez dead players while out of combat, lazy players would simply wait or want people to drop combat to rez them, which is quite easy in open areas. These people need to be forced. Dungeons should allow it however, since the last thing you need is that 1 guy always running back. Waypointing in dungeons during bosses should also be re-enabled and boss room barriers be put in instead.

At the very least, completely dead players should be given the lowest target priority (when pressing “F”) or only be selectable manually.

Dee Jay.2460:

1. Cheesing Bosses – In most games when you wipe on a Boss you get up and try again. But in GW2 players can often drag-out encounters for ages allowing their fellow player to resurrect the dead. This can make Boss fights last forever and is mostly not good for the game as it makes it hard to really fail.

It also resulted in plenty of cheese tactics for various bosses, especially in the Fractals that evolve around dying and then resurrecting dead players. The fact that most of these encounters were changed or mechanics altered to mitigate this kind of behavior shows that it is not in the devs intent for players to cheese-rezz their way through encounters.

Iirc it was only thanks to one of these tactics that people were even able to reach the very high fractal-levels early on, before this too was patched.

To cure a nose-bleed, cut the throat?

personally I love the downed-mode. It’s an awesome opportunity for even bad players to play an important role in battle and have those interact with others more. Imho an option to kill yourself faster / kamikaze would be nice though since some players prefer waypointing back to combat as fast as possible.

The talk of removing any resurrections, in combat or even outside of combat is disturbing. For the latter especially, oh whoops fall damage. Jumping puzzles come to mind. You know, that some people do with friends and have tons of fun…

Then, not everyone cares about gigantic boss events. I get killed sometimes when I try to tolerate attacks while gathering, let alone if I stop by some small-ish event I think is doable. When someone rezzes me, especially in combat, I really appreciate it. I also like to save others the waypoint fee if I can.

If I die during some event and I feel it is out of neglect and have to waypoint which I avoid, I generally don’t go back to risk more fees. And if there was any risk of having to waypoint if I wanted to try to help someone who is in trouble, I doubt I would help anymore.
(I tend to get someone up from downed but get downed myself in the process, oh whoops, but usually I am an elementalist and not alone so don’t worry about me)

Of course when I run with two accounts, I rarely completely die (when I do it is hilarious) and it’s pretty easy for me to help others.

And what is combat/not combat? Me running past some event, see someone who is dead mid combat during some event, rezz them, and continue on my way. Ignoring the event.

^ Experiences from starting zones, largely.