Guild Wars 2

DonQuack.9025:

EcoRI.9273:

DonQuack.9025:

EcoRI.9273:

I am all for berserker builds and I am all for only skilled players should be able to make the best use out of berserker builds. But that just isn’t the case in the current state of PvE and especially in dungeons. Currently this is the easiest way of clearing dungeons and involves very little skill play.
1Guardian/ 1 Phalanx Str Warrior/ 1Thief/ 2Staff eles.
1: Stealth through all mobs to go to boss.(Save all your long cooldowns)
2: Guardian use aegis before boss becomes active. Warrior just spam Greatsword and drop banners. 2Staff eles does Glyph of Storm Lightning swap to fire, ice bow 5-4. And boss is dead.

You don’t get hit and there is very little active play and you have literally buffed your party’s DPS significantly by doing almost nothing but spamming, it is very scripted and you can literally teach anyone who is willing to learn this type of strategy.

TL:DR you don’t need to be a skilled player to play berserker builds effectively.

Yes because all “zerkers” can do all of those things effortlessly.

Give me 4 random zerkers that you think are bad but can listen to me, I will make them into 3hour dungeon tour runners in 1 week.

Hmm Almost as if you had to teach them a skill. Make them skilled?

I can teach you how to count in Chinese :-D. Does that make you skilled in Chinese?

Husband asked me last night what a Berserker was and since he and I don’t run beserkers builds, yet I’m the gamer of the duo, I explained to him what I have come to understand Berserkers are, so please, I will tell you what I told him and IF I am incorrect on this, people school me. (And I ask nicely to please keep it… friendly? I’m not terribly interested in personal opinions that involve how stupid or noobish anyone may think this is.)

First off he and I run “Tank” builds. He always got confused where Ferocity came into play and what it actually was, so I told him:

Beserker builds… Okay, well, I always took them as a simple “Lets See Who Dies First” type of situation. While we as Tanks can talk a heck of a beating in PvE against the game computer enemies, in WvW and PvP… um, yeah… we’d get out butts kicked, big time. I tried Berserker a couple times, it didn’t sit well with me. You lose health faster, yes, but you also deliver damage faster and critically. Faster you do damage, the faster they die and you can move on.

This is what I told him, I don’t know if I am exactly right, but if I’m not, I’m somewhere in the neighborhood of it, but…?

berserker’s is a gear stat of power/precision/ferocity

builds created with those stats are called berserker builds, they are a mix of dps/support skills and traits allowing you to kill faster if you are skilled enough to time your cleanses, aegises and other supportive abilities

A zerker build is a stat and trait combination that maximizes DPS output using Power, critical chance, and critical damage increases.

Basicly a zerker is a glass cannon.

Berserker is a gear stat, but often also linked to heavily dps focused builds using traits that benefit that, lots fo points in the first two trees, only going into others that have damage modifiers usually, except for some professions that are seen as more support based (mesmer/guard).

So generally when you see someone refer to a “zerk build” they’re meaning a heavily damage focused build that removes most elements of defense that aren’t required.

And in this game through the use of dodges/blocks/evades and other active defense tools you can get by quite easily without even taking a hit.

Makes me skilled in counting to whatever number you teach me in Chinese. Sorta like how a few positions at my job pay extra for having even a basic level of speaking Spanish.

Or how I knew how to do basic computer repair and was doing repair jobs long before I got A+ cert.

There are varying levels of this thing you call skill. Arah kitten s all of my orifices. I cringe at the sight of Lupi. Actually so does a good chunk of COE. but everything before there I can handle easily.

Do I not display skill in dungeons? I might stack and use proper dps rotations I just tend to die more often than not. Am I unskilled?

Is skill, black and white? You either have it or you dont? You either no dodge solo lupi (skill) or dont (not be skilled)?

Literally worse that in fps’s were they argue using specific weapons somehow takes no skill.

DonQuack.9025:

Makes me skilled in counting to whatever number you teach me in Chinese. Sorta like how a few positions at my job pay extra for having even a basic level of speaking Spanish.

Or how I knew how to do basic computer repair and was doing repair jobs long before I got A+ cert.

Yes I agree with all your statements. I am pointing out that berserker meta requires little skill to play effectively, and not requires 0 skill.

EcoRI.9273:

DonQuack.9025:

EcoRI.9273:

DonQuack.9025:

EcoRI.9273:

I am all for berserker builds and I am all for only skilled players should be able to make the best use out of berserker builds. But that just isn’t the case in the current state of PvE and especially in dungeons. Currently this is the easiest way of clearing dungeons and involves very little skill play.
1Guardian/ 1 Phalanx Str Warrior/ 1Thief/ 2Staff eles.
1: Stealth through all mobs to go to boss.(Save all your long cooldowns)
2: Guardian use aegis before boss becomes active. Warrior just spam Greatsword and drop banners. 2Staff eles does Glyph of Storm Lightning swap to fire, ice bow 5-4. And boss is dead.

You don’t get hit and there is very little active play and you have literally buffed your party’s DPS significantly by doing almost nothing but spamming, it is very scripted and you can literally teach anyone who is willing to learn this type of strategy.

TL:DR you don’t need to be a skilled player to play berserker builds effectively.

Yes because all “zerkers” can do all of those things effortlessly.

Give me 4 random zerkers that you think are bad but can listen to me, I will make them into 3hour dungeon tour runners in 1 week.

Hmm Almost as if you had to teach them a skill. Make them skilled?

I can teach you how to count in Chinese :-D. Does that make you skilled in Chinese?

you are right, zerker is not actually harder than many of the other stat sets. They know this though.
Their goal is to be as fast as possible, not to face the greatest challenge. Thats just a fake side track. Whatever is the easiest/fastest is what meta is about.

Maximum offense gear with no built in defense besides any points from your traits. Full zerk generally does the highest dps possible.

If you run bezerk, you have to use your dodges, evades, and blocks to stay alive(also buffs like protection and aegis), since you won’t have any passive defense.

Meta for dungeon speed clears, but in pvp/wvw not so dominant.

And just an fyi
Power= direct damage
Precision= critical hit chance
Ferocity= critical hit bonus damage

You don’t really need survivability stats in pve if you play smart and know how the encounters work, so gearing up for that holds your damage back. That’s why berserker equipment is so dominant in pve because it is so hard to argue that anything else is better/more efficient.

It’s really too bad that the game can easily be reduced like that but that is the state we’re at.

James Quall.6029:

You don’t really need survivability stats in pve if you play smart and know how the encounters work, so gearing up for that holds your damage back. That’s why berserker equipment is so dominant in pve because it is so hard to argue that anything else is better/more efficient.

It’s really too bad that the game can easily be reduced like that but that is the state we’re at.

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

Zerker as i know it: Focusing on Power and crit to maximize damage output to kill enemies faster so they have less chance/time to pull off he eventual hay makers that are sometimes barely dodge-able and can usually one shot you regardless of your build/armor/how tanky you are.

Its a flaw in game design which has been brought up to Anet numerous times already. in essence, they completely invalidate tank builds for big world content since the trade off on the tanky builds is less damage and therefore big fights take longer and being that tanky won’t save you from a party wipe if you all miss you dodge or blind or block, etc.

That isn’t to say a tanky guardian that is good at group support and aiding with healing is a bad thing, because they help greatly when keeping newer players on their feet in the open world/boss stuff, and i know my healing warrior kept a good many random players from dropping during LS season 1 whether they realized it or not, but over all those builds are neutered simply through the game’s design.

Once you’ve learned a lot of/most of the PvE content and timings you can usually switch to zerk if you hadn’t early on and just face-roll most of the content in PvE barring a few areas that are generally broken IMO. (I’m looking at you Kol Skullsmasher and your silly amounts of HP and silly hay makers on short cooldown).

DonQuack.9025:

Makes me skilled in counting to whatever number you teach me in Chinese. Sorta like how a few positions at my job pay extra for having even a basic level of speaking Spanish.

Or how I knew how to do basic computer repair and was doing repair jobs long before I got A+ cert.

There are varying levels of this thing you call skill. Arah kitten s all of my orifices. I cringe at the sight of Lupi. Actually so does a good chunk of COE. but everything before there I can handle easily.

Do I not display skill in dungeons? I might stack and use proper dps rotations I just tend to die more often than not. Am I unskilled?

Is skill, black and white? You either have it or you dont? You either no dodge solo lupi (skill) or dont (not be skilled)?

Literally worse that in fps’s were they argue using specific weapons somehow takes no skill.

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

1. Berserker gear serves the same function as what is called “glass cannon” gear or builds in many games. Cannon because it hits hard, glass because it breaks easily.
2. Berserker is a stat combination on gear. It’s not a build.
3. As Jerus says, Berserker gear is sometimes linked in peoples’ minds to high-damage traits, utilities and weapon choices by those looking to max personal damage output.
4. Groups looking to max the group’s effectiveness will all wear berserker gear, but will use other build elements that are not just about one’s own damage, instead sacrificing some personal DPS for the group’s damage and survivability. For example, if there’s no other might stacking in the group, a warrior player might put trait points into the Tactics trait line to get the Phalanx Strength trait.

EcoRI.9273:

Yes I agree with all your statements. I am pointing out that berserker meta requires little skill to play effectively, and not requires 0 skill.

Ah I must have misunderstood this

TL:DR you don’t need to be a skilled player to play berserker builds effectively.

I still wholeheartedly disagree but I guess thats because I am probably thinking the word effectively.
Clearly zerker engi takes little skill.

Actually wait
Takes little skill. Im pretty sure you just directly insulted me.

Ah I see where the miscommunication lies. The word “effectively”.

“I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.”

Dont forget to take out, aegis, block,invuln, blinds, stuns.
Just press 1 right?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I thought we were, then you went on the mild rant about carrying people in dungeons and fractals and I wasn’t sure anymore.

I don’t rant, really I don’t. I think I can say that I’m a good pve player and I don’t mind when others are running with their newly created classes or are unsure what to do as I often don’t know what to do either as I’m kind of dyslexic when it comes to dungeons but I do know how to survive and how to save others (as a full zerker thief). The “dungeons and fractals” stuff was regarding pug lfg “zerkers only”, I can imagine that a lot of these groups are created by people who need to be carried.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’ve come across a lot of people on this forum that seem to be of the opinion that the open world has no meaning and everything revolves around dungeons and fractals. However, any ‘pve’ change should affect dungeons and fractals to a certain extent, since they are ‘pve’ as well. Though, it doesn’t necessarily have to. It depends on how their code is done.

If you go a bit deeper than that you will come to wvw players to whom nothing in pve has got any meaning and I’m one of those. I still enjoy pve, I enjoy open world like just running around orr farming or dungeons and fractals or teq (dodge training) but in the end it’s meaningless and rather boring – I don’t mind though, I just get back to wvw when I’ve had enough.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

However, I think we could make the AI more intelligent and offer a bit more challenge without making it ‘too hard’ for the average player. As others have pointed out before, it’s been severely dumbed down since the original betas and I think they went a tad overboard.

I’d like to have the pve nerf last april reversed but even that would be too much for many who complained that this game won’t let you steam roll through low level maps, which it now does, sadly.
But yeah, we might have the same opinion on that, I just have no idea how to implement this into the game. But maybe bosses like teq and the wurm and maybe the silverwastes did a lot for that already – I rage less about “noobs” nowadays as I hardly can say that this or that player “did everything wrong”.

I just don’t think that the zerker meta will or should go away.
So, in the end we probably have nothing to argue about

tramwajarz.2369:

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

I don’t think that (at least for pve) there is or was really any place at all for characters geared specifically to be tough and that high/pure damage builds have always been the best option, regardless of how long it has been since there has been content released or how long it has been released for.

You can gear yourself to take a lickin and keep on tickin, but at the end of the day a person in soldier/cleric/nomad armor not dying is always going to be severely outperformed by a berserker character who is also not dying because they know how to dodge or use built in evades on attacks or blocks or invulnerability skills or projectile reflects. There is just never an unmanageable danger that requires you to have more life or armor.

I really don’t feel there’s anything wrong with the situation other than stale content. Did you really think people wouldn’t figure out thinsg so well that they could teach a monkey to do it? How many years of perfecting strats?

Take a Thief to unbugged Lupi and even that you could call easy, no need to even watch for the kick tell, just learn the timings between attacks and dodge each one.

Things get easy over time as people break them down for simple instructions.

My point being, that the content isn’t bad, the game isn’t too easy, it’s just that we’ve perfected what we have far too well, and that’s pretty expected for something that’s been done this many times. Hell I think i’d be embarrassed if I played a game for years and ran the same thing hundreds of time and still felt it was difficult. I can’t even imagine something being able to make that happen.

James Quall.6029:

tramwajarz.2369:

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

I don’t think that (at least for pve) there is or was really any place at all for characters geared specifically to be tough and that high/pure damage builds have always been the best option, regardless of how long it has been since there has been content released or how long it has been released for.

You can gear yourself to take a lickin and keep on tickin, but at the end of the day a person in soldier/cleric/nomad armor not dying is always going to be severely outperformed by a berserker character who is also not dying because they know how to dodge or use built in evades on attacks or blocks or invulnerability skills or projectile reflects. There is just never an unmanageable danger that requires you to have more life or armor.

If a zerk player is skilled enough to outplay the encounter it is totally okay in my book.
The better the player, the better the reward should be.

EcoRI.9273:

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

True in the majority of dungeons. Jump into COE/Arah/Fractals and that’s not so true.

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

True in the majority of dungeons. Jump into COE/Arah/Fractals and that’s not so true.

+1

tramwajarz.2369:

If a zerk player is skilled enough to outplay the encounter it is totally okay in my book. The better the player, the better the reward should be.

I completely agree. I just mean that I think it’s unfortunate that with all the wide variety stat combinations available on gear and the ability to have fluid roles that in pve everything that isn’t pure physical damage is just training wheels or inefficient (or both).

This thread and others like it regarding the “berserker meta” are really tiresome. What did everyone expect? The dominance of zerkers is no grand revelation. In GW2, the trinity is homogenized into a mixture of self-sufficiency for every class. Given: small player life pools, mediocre heals on long cooldowns, toughness not mitigating heavy damage, and 2 dodges in a very AoE-heavy game. End result: kill things quickly and efficiently before they kill you, i.e. full-time berserker stats on everything 24/7.

Unless ANet plans on a massive rewrite of the game, damage-centric builds will continue to dominate in a non-trinity game.

Jana.6831:

I just don’t think that the zerker meta will or should go away.
So, in the end we probably have nothing to argue about

Oh it’ll probably never go away. Wish some of the kittens that preach it like it was a religion would though. That’s usually where my issue with it is.

Jaymee.1560:

Beserker builds… Okay, well, I always took them as a simple “Lets See Who Dies First” type of situation.

You’re close.

For some people it’s a game of chicken when it comes to damage, but for others its a “I dont need to run toughness because I know how the mobs/classes/general opponents fight and am prepared to deal with that damage by other means than toughness.”

Instead of toughness, Berserker mains excel at using:

*Blinds
*Blocks
*Reflects
*Dodges
*Stealth
*Interrupts
*Control

to survive, instead of using their armor to damage soak.

It’s incredibly unforgiving when it comes to making mistakes, but it forces you to learn not to make mistakes and helps increase player skill as a result.

Keep in mind, also, that it is a stat combination, not an all or nothing build. People can run berserkers on some armor and then supplement it with tankiness from other armor to outlast full berserker builds. Like all the other stat combos out there, it sacrifices certain stats to buff others.

It may be difficult to play, but the payoff is worth it.

EcoRI.9273:

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

What??

I agree that most dungeon with just decent build, might and fury the majority of bosses can be killed so quickly that it’s just silly. But that’s a huge jump saying that the only thing you need is meta build and with no might and no dps rotation everything melt without the need to dodge once. That’s pretty pathetic.

tramwajarz.2369:

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

True in the majority of dungeons. Jump into COE/Arah/Fractals and that’s not so true.

+1

I agree but i’ll say CoE is in the same camp as the other dungeons.

Thaddeus.4891:

EcoRI.9273:

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

What??

I agree that most dungeon with just decent build, might and fury the majority of bosses can be killed so quickly that it’s just silly. But that’s a huge jump saying that the only thing you need is meta build and with no might and no dps rotation everything melt without the need to dodge once. That’s pretty pathetic.

PS warrior gives the might but the way the might is given is lame, you don’t need DPS rotation because you will have icebow and by the time you swap out, the boss will be almost dead.

James Quall.6029:

tramwajarz.2369:

If a zerk player is skilled enough to outplay the encounter it is totally okay in my book. The better the player, the better the reward should be.

I completely agree. I just mean that I think it’s unfortunate that with all the wide variety stat combinations available on gear and the ability to have fluid roles that in pve everything that isn’t pure physical damage is just training wheels or inefficient (or both).

I think people get too caught up with the productivity element of efficiency and forget that efficiency is a ratio of what you put in and what you get out. If bringing along a clerics guard can make the thing a walk in the part easymode that you basically can’t fail, then you’re decreased what you put in quite a lot, and what do you lose on what you get out? ~15% damage? So you take a little longer to finish. There’s 0 reason you can’t consider that efficient, it’s not as if we’re dealing with clean math where everything is factually what it is, naw there’s a lot of opinion.

If you handle zerk gear easy and things are still breezing by, then probably not worth bringing tank stuff, but if that’s not the case then youc an bring it along and it’s not a problem.

Point being, things work, if you want an easier time, there’s a lot of options to make that happen. If you want to ignore the effort you put in then of course going for max productivity is where it’s at. After years of the same dungeons, it’s no surprise that most people find them easy enough that they don’t feel the need to reduce the effort required.

Eh, just code all the bosses as objects, like Tequatl. Crits won’t happen, so 2/3 of zerk is pointless.

Then everyone will use Soldier gear, which has no easy way to earn (better do those Guild Missions, boyos!), or maybe 1 of 5 dungeon runners will have a condi build.

That’ll fix everything.

EcoRI.9273:

tramwajarz.2369:

Jerus.4350:

EcoRI.9273:

I hate to say this but seriously in the current meta, you don’t need to blast might, you don’t need to dodge, you don’t need to do dps rotations. Things will still melt.

True in the majority of dungeons. Jump into COE/Arah/Fractals and that’s not so true.

+1

I agree but i’ll say CoE is in the same camp as the other dungeons.

It’s close, you will need to dodge at least a couple attacks fromt he final Alpha usually, and the side bosses require you to do some different stuff.

Rauderi.8706:

Eh, just code all the bosses as objects, like Tequatl. Crits won’t happen, so 2/3 of zerk is pointless.

Then everyone will use Soldier gear, which has no easy way to earn (better do those Guild Missions, boyos!), or maybe 1 of 5 dungeon runners will have a condi build.

That’ll fix everything.

Hey buddy, you can get soldier gear from AC dungeons it’s Sentinel taht’s locked behind guild missions… and no one would use that.

Rauderi.8706:

Eh, just code all the bosses as objects, like Tequatl. Crits won’t happen, so 2/3 of zerk is pointless.

Then everyone will use Soldier gear, which has no easy way to earn (better do those Guild Missions, boyos!), or maybe 1 of 5 dungeon runners will have a condi build.

That’ll fix everything.

I know it’s a sarcasm but in case a dev comes here (I know they won’t) disabling a game mechanic is the worst possible solution. They did it with marlona and reflects. Good job. Like skills or traits don’t matter, just smash it with dps and dodge attacks. This would be even worse than it is.

Jerus.4350:

Rauderi.8706:

Eh, just code all the bosses as objects, like Tequatl. Crits won’t happen, so 2/3 of zerk is pointless.

Then everyone will use Soldier gear, which has no easy way to earn (better do those Guild Missions, boyos!), or maybe 1 of 5 dungeon runners will have a condi build.

That’ll fix everything.

Hey buddy, you can get soldier gear from AC dungeons it’s Sentinel taht’s locked behind guild missions… and no one would use that.

I stand corrected!
I was being sarcastic anyway, so nyeh. :P

It’s pretty sad that people seem so intent on fussing about years-old content that’s been farmed to death, because some people know the fights from hundreds of runs.

As much as the elitism runs rampant, I can agree on something very simple:

1. Don’t join high-AP / zerk-only LFG groups if you don’t meet the requirements and aren’t experienced.
2. Make your own groups and clearly identify what you want (path run, story cutscenes)

It really isn’t that hard. :\

They just need to give icebow and glyph of storm the FGS treatment and then everything will be fine.

tramwajarz.2369:

I know it’s a sarcasm but in case a dev comes here (I know they won’t) disabling a game mechanic is the worst possible solution. They did it with marlona and reflects. Good job. Like skills or traits don’t matter, just smash it with dps and dodge attacks. This would be even worse than it is.

Yeah, it was sarcasm. =P

And I was pretty mad when I heard about the non-reflectable attacks. It’s not appropriate to break a game mechanic so blatantly.

Conversely, I’m of the opinion that everything in the game should take critical damage, or damage on coded objects should take normalized damage:
Condition damage normally ignored should be rolled into damage against objects.
Base damage should increase according to Precision/Ferocity on objects.

tramwajarz.2369:

James Quall.6029:

tramwajarz.2369:

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

I don’t think that (at least for pve) there is or was really any place at all for characters geared specifically to be tough and that high/pure damage builds have always been the best option, regardless of how long it has been since there has been content released or how long it has been released for.

You can gear yourself to take a lickin and keep on tickin, but at the end of the day a person in soldier/cleric/nomad armor not dying is always going to be severely outperformed by a berserker character who is also not dying because they know how to dodge or use built in evades on attacks or blocks or invulnerability skills or projectile reflects. There is just never an unmanageable danger that requires you to have more life or armor.

If a zerk player is skilled enough to outplay the encounter it is totally okay in my book.
The better the player, the better the reward should be.

Basically, the point of berserker builds is to minimize the time required to kill a foe and with that the duration of the actual encounter. Due to that, the encounter becomes trivialized and potentially requires less skill of the individual player than it might if the encounters were longer.

Therefore, playing berserker builds is about routine and knowing the encounters, but not so much about skill.

EcoRI.9273:

They just need to give icebow and glyph of storm the FGS treatment and then everything will be fine.

Let’s kill some more skills so we can autoattack only.

On serious note, as always, after FB nerf the only players punished will be random pugs that have no idea what they’re doing. Organised dungeoneers will tune and adapt.

Satenia.9025:

tramwajarz.2369:

James Quall.6029:

tramwajarz.2369:

That’s because after almost 3 years of no significant PvE content, we learned and mastered what we have. The same goes about professions. Once we get new content we are going to learn it until we master it like old content. This is how games work. And berserker builds in PvE are rewarding for those able and willing to learn the content.

I don’t think that (at least for pve) there is or was really any place at all for characters geared specifically to be tough and that high/pure damage builds have always been the best option, regardless of how long it has been since there has been content released or how long it has been released for.

You can gear yourself to take a lickin and keep on tickin, but at the end of the day a person in soldier/cleric/nomad armor not dying is always going to be severely outperformed by a berserker character who is also not dying because they know how to dodge or use built in evades on attacks or blocks or invulnerability skills or projectile reflects. There is just never an unmanageable danger that requires you to have more life or armor.

If a zerk player is skilled enough to outplay the encounter it is totally okay in my book.
The better the player, the better the reward should be.

Basically, the point of berserker builds is to minimize the time required to kill a foe and with that the duration of the actual encounter. Due to that, the encounter becomes trivialized and potentially requires less skill of the individual player than it might if the encounters were longer.

Therefore, playing berserker builds is about routine and knowing the encounters, but not so much about skill.

Watch the video posted in this thread about facetanking fractals 50 geared full cleric’s. Come back after and apologise for calling zerkers trivial.

EcoRI.9273:

They just need to give icebow and glyph of storm the FGS treatment and then everything will be fine.

I want them to address the scaling in lower level dungeons. I was stoked when they nerfed it a few patches ago, but then people cried enough that suddenly it was a bug

If AC bosses lasted half as long as HOTW bosses, we wouldn’t be in this situation.

And I really don’t have a problem with IB or Glyph, witht he defiance change the deep freeze lockdown will be gone and I think all that will be fine.

What makes me sad and happy at the same time is the current meta people are running. While it makes me happy because it’s what my freinds and I started running the second Phalanx Strength appeared, so a little happy in that “haha yeah we were doing that” type thing, but I’m sad because god, it’s so easy! We did it because it was easy and effective enough for us, now we’re finding it’s just strait up effective.

Staff Ele is so boring, GS war is boring the only fun stuff is working in the Axe/Mace rotation. We’ve fallen into a meta that just kinda sucks. More so in some ways than the “stack and rush” fgs meta. But, that’s why I don’t stress about meta and just try to play whatever people feel like and do the best we can to get everything we can out of whatever stupid comp we end up with.

tramwajarz.2369:

it’s not the meta because meta is for skilled people willing to learn the encounter; cleric “meta” is for people that don’t want to or can’t learn the content but want to finish it anyway, only slower; everybody is rewarded, so where’s the problem?

The only fact is that when you can face tank a boss – this is the definition of trivial.

If that was only true. The skilful part about the meta is coming up with the working concepts. The ones following are just joining the developed path of least resistance.

In GW2, this is precisely how I originally mentioned: You minimize the encounters and therefore actually avoid potential challenges. The rest is simple routine you can have pretty much anyone pull off. This is why it’s meta.

As much as I hate HP sponge in MMO, I believe gw2 need bosses with more HP, boss fight that end within 5-15 seconds are just too short. Or they can use multiple phases, like they did with lupicus, fire shaman, archdiviner which are interesting fight and are where bad players actually get revealed.

I mean 700k hp in a level 80 dungeon where your team can output up to 120k dps for the first few seconds just doesn’t make sense to me.

I am a firm believer that the game mechanic is fine, but the boss battle aren’t in general. longer fight, with multiple phases/mechanic is what we need.

Trice.4598:

As much as I hate HP sponge in MMO, I believe gw2 need bosses with more HP, boss fight that end within 5-15 seconds are just too short. Or they can use multiple phases, like they did with lupicus, fire shaman, archdiviner which are interesting fight and are where bad players actually get revealed.

I mean 700k hp in a level 80 dungeon where your team can output up to 120k dps for the first few seconds just doesn’t make sense to me.

I am a firm believer that the game mechanic is fine, but the boss battle aren’t in general. longer fight, with multiple phases/mechanic is what we need.

They have to balance boss hit points for players who are not optimizing vulnerability, might stacks, +% damage traits/runes and Berserker stats.

Trice.4598:

I am a firm believer that the game mechanic is fine, but the boss battle aren’t in general. longer fight, with multiple phases/mechanic is what we need.

Yeah, but that’s not what people new to this game need.
I could tell endless stories about my first noob guild in this game and what we thought we’d have to do. Yeah, it was some stupid stuff.. we bought our guild leader a commander tag because he thought he could bring more people to a dungeon with that “This isn’t working, we need more people”. Yeah well, it didn’t work too well- in fact it hardly ever works well, so basically every fight has been a long battle for me and that until around last month.

Jana.6831:

Trice.4598:

I am a firm believer that the game mechanic is fine, but the boss battle aren’t in general. longer fight, with multiple phases/mechanic is what we need.

Yeah, but that’s not what people new to this game need.
I could tell endless stories about my first noob guild in this game and what we thought we’d have to do. Yeah, it was some stupid stuff.. we bought our guild leader a commander tag because he thought he could bring more people to a dungeon with that “This isn’t working, we need more people”. Yeah well, it didn’t work too well- in fact it hardly ever works well, so basically every fight has been a long battle for me and that until around last month.

There is enough low difficulty content in the game to introduce new players into the game and it’s not like the vast majority of the player base now is new players. It’s been 3 years, it’s about time they start to give more content for veteran players rather than to new players. After all veteran GW2 players will probably bought more expansion than completely new players.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jana.6831:

Trice.4598:

I am a firm believer that the game mechanic is fine, but the boss battle aren’t in general. longer fight, with multiple phases/mechanic is what we need.

Yeah, but that’s not what people new to this game need.
I could tell endless stories about my first noob guild in this game and what we thought we’d have to do. Yeah, it was some stupid stuff.. we bought our guild leader a commander tag because he thought he could bring more people to a dungeon with that “This isn’t working, we need more people”. Yeah well, it didn’t work too well- in fact it hardly ever works well, so basically every fight has been a long battle for me and that until around last month.

There is enough low difficulty content in the game to introduce new players into the game and it’s not like the vast majority of the player base now is new players. It’s been 3 years, it’s about time they start to give more content for veteran players rather than to new players. After all veteran GW2 players will probably bought more expansion than completely new players.

I totally agree with you, i understand that the majority of the game cather to the lowest denominator but we should have content for the more enthousiast players, if youre not willing to invest time and energy, you wont be able to complete it. But thats not by changing the meta or how the game work, they can do it by giving boss more hp and different phase like they already successfully done.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jana.6831:

Trice.4598:

I am a firm believer that the game mechanic is fine, but the boss battle aren’t in general. longer fight, with multiple phases/mechanic is what we need.

Yeah, but that’s not what people new to this game need.
I could tell endless stories about my first noob guild in this game and what we thought we’d have to do. Yeah, it was some stupid stuff.. we bought our guild leader a commander tag because he thought he could bring more people to a dungeon with that “This isn’t working, we need more people”. Yeah well, it didn’t work too well- in fact it hardly ever works well, so basically every fight has been a long battle for me and that until around last month.

There is enough low difficulty content in the game to introduce new players into the game and it’s not like the vast majority of the player base now is new players. It’s been 3 years, it’s about time they start to give more content for veteran players rather than to new players. After all veteran GW2 players will probably bought more expansion than completely new players.

I don’t disagree with that but it always sounds as if the “more AI” has to be applied to everything and I’m not so sure that’s a good idea.
In the end every character gets mail once they hit level what 25? 30 and so on with an invitation to a dungeon – so we thought we could do that and we couldn’t.

Jana.6831:

I don’t disagree with that but it always sounds as if the “more AI” has to be applied to everything and I’m not so sure that’s a good idea.
In the end every character gets mail once they hit level what 25? 30 and so on with an invitation to a dungeon – so we thought we could do that and we couldn’t.

Yes you can, we did it 2,5 years ago like everyone else doing dungeon since the start of the game. There is some issue with the introduction of dungeon to new player I agree. AC isn’t the best dungeon to serve as an introduction. The burrows can be a huge challenge for low level character, too many of them as they learn the game don’t have enough power to go througth this small dps barrier. Maybe they should rework it a little. But in the end it’s a really small problem that affect only a small portion of the population by now. It have nothing to do with the fact that some dungeon are braindead easy for level 80 and they are so old that everybody know them by heart, making them even easier.

Harper.4173:

Cuddy.6247:

There’s already ambiguity in “best stat combo.” Play in WvW, PvP or do different open world content (Triple Wurm, e.g. can’t be critted). If there’s anything ANet needs to do, is return to Guild Wars 1 where they politely ask you to take a break from the game, and get more passive-aggressive each time. Large multiplayer communities would see great improvement if people weren’t constantly obsessed with the state of the game and had a well-rounded outlook of comparison.

You do realize a F2P model means the longer they keep you in the game and the more invested in the game you are the more money they’re going to make off you via the gem store right?

It is most certainly not in their interest to tell you to take a break or to not want you glued to your GW2 as much as possible.

They even attempted to push this very hard via the 2 week cycle Living Story that you can only do during those two weeks.

You can support moderation and strong business promotion. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jana.6831:

I don’t disagree with that but it always sounds as if the “more AI” has to be applied to everything and I’m not so sure that’s a good idea.
In the end every character gets mail once they hit level what 25? 30 and so on with an invitation to a dungeon – so we thought we could do that and we couldn’t.

Yes you can, we did it 2,5 years ago like everyone else doing dungeon since the start of the game. There is some issue with the introduction of dungeon to new player I agree. AC isn’t the best dungeon to serve as an introduction. The burrows can be a huge challenge for low level character, too many of them as they learn the game don’t have enough power to go througth this small dps barrier. Maybe they should rework it a little. But in the end it’s a really small problem that affect only a small portion of the population by now. It have nothing to do with the fact that some dungeon are braindead easy for level 80 and they are so old that everybody know them by heart, making them even easier.

We tried AC and failed miserably 1,5 years ago.
And I still disagree that it’s “just a small problem” it has been a huge problem for my guild back then (I’m the only one stillplaying, they left 2 weeks after that). And I didn’t do dungeons til about 6 months ago.

Jerus.4350:

If AC bosses lasted half as long as HOTW bosses, we wouldn’t be in this situation.

But AC isn’t designed for high levels. Buy some level 35 masterwork, or even rare, gear and say that AC bosses don’t last a little while. When we all run low level dungeons in level 80 exotics, the results are disingenuous to the difficulty scale they were making the dungeon. There’s no balance that can be found to make it a reasonable effort for a team of players level 35-45, while still requiring effort from level 80s.